Mystic remora > rhystic study . I consider remora better than mans crypt in opener it's bonkers. People pay 1 no one pays 4. In general it's Pay 1U-3U draw 7-15 cards. It's that good don't let cum****jvd fool you and errate is all players. It's an auto include in EVERY blue deck IMO
I think they are very different cards. On that note I'd run both.
As another topic, I've been considering my counter magic suite, as lately I've been finding that when I'm trying to combo off, a counterspell with UU in it's mana cost has been prohibitive. I'm talking about times when I'd like to cast Power Artifact, which itself costs UU, and also have a counter backup ready in hand. Hinder, Spell Crumple, and Forbid are all great counterspells in Commander, but this deck is such a mana hog for colored mana that these counters often end up costing me an extra turn.
Although tucking generals is great, the best of the 1UU counters I am running is Forbid, since when I'm forced on the defensive, it's possible to buy it back, unlike Spell Crumple and Hinder. Therefore, I'm making the following changes.
IN: Delay, Negate -- only have a single U in their mana costs, and in this combo-focused deck, should be just as effective. Delay buys me three turns to find another answer, and will just as often counter their counter to protect my combo. Negate should be fine since if I'm worried about a certain creature hitting the board, I'll likely just tutor for some kind of bounce or removal spell.
With these changes, I still have 10 counterspells in the current list, which seems to be about the correct amount for my play style. Do you guys agree with these changes?
I agree either changes the oona ant guy I play with does this. Even with all blue land uu is tough on the turn with artifact since you can go off with 4 Lands pretty easy.
I think you should consider the blue 1 cmc cantrips and counters, as they speed up your decklist. These could replace more unwieldy options such as diabolic revelation / increasing ambition, forbid, delay, arcane denial (card advantage for your opponents). Dispel , spell pierce and Flusterstorm are awesome counters for combo protection, as is Misdirection which is a second force in counter wars.
Is the buyback on capsize really that relevant? I think into the roil is better for being able to draw and only costing 1U. Is brittle effigy being an artifact worth the huge mana cost? Slaughter pact is free, an instant and can be tutored with tolaria west and hits most (all?) of the targets you want to hit. Ghastly demise can work for this as well as it is better in the early game.
When you aren't comboing off, Time Spiral as a free draw 7 and Jace, the Mindsculptor are two of the best things you can be doing. You could consider Devestation Tide as a cheaper alternative to Oblivion Stone with your topdeck tutors or All is Dust as it doesn't hit artifacts.
What is the metagame you play in, as this definitely influences some of these card choices.
My meta at the moment ranges from completely casual Glissa, Numot, Riku, Wrexial, and Teneb, to very cutthroat Edric, Azami, Arcum, a really annoying five-color Hermit Druid combo deck, and I'm-gonna-counter-everything Ertai. Based on this, I am trying to make this list as powerful as I can, for multiplayer. I will now try and address each of your comments, based on my meta and current experience with piloting Oona.
I think you should consider the blue 1 cmc cantrips and counters, as they speed up your decklist. These could replace more unwieldy options such as diabolic revelation / increasing ambition, forbid, delay, arcane denial (card advantage for your opponents). Dispel, spell pierce and Flusterstorm are awesome counters for combo protection, as is Misdirection which is a second force in counter wars.
I agree with you that having the cheapest possible counters, that still function the way they'll need to (i.e. they are not too conditional, based on this combo-focused deck), is worth discussing. I have previously thought quite a bit about Dispel and Flusterstorm. I have not really considered Spell Pierce, since when I'm facing down Azami and Arcum, I really don't want to be stuck with useless counter in hand, and if it's later in the game, someone will just pay the extra mana. So, Spell Pierce is too conditional IMO. If I was building a 1v1 version of Oona, and was always trying to race my single opponent, then Spell Pierce would be a decent choice, since I'd most likely only ever be using it early in the game. But, with multiple opponents, it is often wiser to wait a few turns until all of the pieces are in place before you try and combo off, which makes the "unless they pay 2" clause unacceptable. The reason I do not currently have Dispel or Flusterstorm in the list is that they are only really good at protecting my combo, not necessarily stopping someone else's (I'm looking at you Hermit Druid, Arcum and Azami). That is why I would way rather play Arcane Denial and be able to stop anything, at the expense of having them draw a couple of extra cards later (and one for me, which is always nice). Delay is cheap and gives me three turns to combo off myself or dig for some answers, which is also an acceptable trade-off to me. I do think I should cut Forbid for something else, though, since the buyback cost is almost always more than I'm willing to pay, costing me two cards. I'm thinking I may cut Forbid and put in Mystic Remora for a bit more draw power in the early game...I'm still thinking about it. Also, I realize they are high CMC tutors, but I've found Diabolic Revelation and Increasing Ambition to both be sooooo useful. I don't run Diabolic Tutor, which is "cheaper", but the re-usability of Increasing Ambition, along with the single B in the mana cost, makes it superior to Diabolic Tutor in this deck, IMO. If I had to cut a tutor, I think it would be Diabolic Revelation, although this card has been fun and saved my bacon on a few occasions, since my list generates a lot of colorless mana. Grab me both of my combo pieces and Pact of Negation for the reasonable price of 6BB mana? I'll take it.
Is the buyback on capsize really that relevant? I think into the roil is better for being able to draw and only costing 1U. Is brittle effigy being an artifact worth the huge mana cost? Slaughter pact is free, an instant and can be tutored with tolaria west and hits most (all?) of the targets you want to hit. Ghastly demise can work for this as well as it is better in the early game.
The buyback on Capsize is occasionally relevant, for when the game goes a bit longer than I'd like. Mostly, it's the versatility of this card that makes me want to include. It even bounces lands, and can theoretically serve as an alternative way to get infinite mana with Doubling Cube, although this is more of a pipe-dream. Since the buyback is colorless mana, which my list has in abundance, I do prefer Capsize to Into the Roil, although Into the Roil's a solid card in it's own right.
Brittle Effigy isn't an amazing card or anything, but it does only cost 1 to cast, which makes is a turn-one rattlesnake. It also doesn't hurt much to flip off of Ad Nauseam. Also, the fact that it exiles is nice (for non-generals). Oh yes, and this is all colorless mana, which never seems to be a problem to get in this decklist. I can see this as being one of the cuttable cards, although I do need to maintain a few answers for problematic creatures. In my meta, Slaughter Pact would hit most of the targets I want to hit, so I'll test this card out. Thank you for the suggestion.
When you aren't comboing off, Time Spiral as a free draw 7 and Jace, the Mindsculptor are two of the best things you can be doing. You could consider Devestation Tide as a cheaper alternative to Oblivion Stone with your topdeck tutors or All is Dust as it doesn't hit artifacts.
Time Spiral is an awesome card, but it will hurt too much to flip off of Ad Nauseam. Otherwise, I'd totally run it. With my playgroup, planeswalkers, especially THE planeswalker, JTMS, are dealt with immediately, making him a 2UUBrainstorm, and I have no creatures to protect him. Also, I like Oblivion Stone because I can get it out faster, tutor for it easier, and it hurts less off of Ad Nauseam. I agree with you that All is Dust is pretty much the perfect removal spell for this decklist, but when I first thinned down the overall CMC for the list to make it faster with Ad Nauseam, I ended up cutting it for Oblivion Stone. Thus far in my playtesting, I've been able to play around the fact that Oblivion Stone nukes artifacts (mine as well as theirs).
Dark Confidant, Shadowmage Infiltrator and Phyrexian Arena may be worth a look at as well.
I really like Dark Confidant, and Phyrexian Arena. I'm not a huge fan of Shadowmage Infiltrator, though. A few posts ago, we were discussing card drawing options, and at the moment, I'm liking Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora over Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena. That means that if I add some more draw, I have to cut something else. My options are to cut:
-artifact mana
-tutors
-counters
-bounce, or
-removal.
To be honest, I'm not sure of what to cut to fit these extra draw engines in. Artifact mana is essential to a fast game-plan, and in my meta, the 10 counters and two bounce spells are also necessary for the deck's resiliency. I guess that leaves tutors and removal. I'm pretty light on removal as-is, with Brittle Effigy, Black Sun's Zenith, and Oblivion Stone. That leaves tutors, and right now I'm running 16, which is one tutor for every 6.25 cards, meaning statistically I should have one tutor in every opening hand if I don't have to mulligan. Any suggestions?
After much thought on this, I think I need to cut Diabolic Revelation to fit in Mystic Remora. Mystic Remora drops the CMC of the list further, and should pay off more than Diabolic Revelation does. When Diabolic Revelation works, it's awesome, but I think the deck will be better off with Mystic Remora in its place.
On another note, I just recalculated the CMC of this decklist (not including Oona or Ad Nauseam), and it's down to 1.45. I still have 15 tutors in the list, which works out to one tutor per every 6.67 cards, which is still pretty good. Plus, with the extra draw provided by Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora, I feel that the list gains some extra resiliency in the event that the Ad Nauseam game plan doesn't work out.
I made another change today, swapping out Skirge Familiar for Telepathy. Skirge Familiar is great after I've resolved Ad Nauseam, but otherwise is a pretty dead draw, and has a high CMC. Telepathy, on the other hand, is useful both before and after Ad Nauseam is cast. Before I cast Ad Nauseam, Telepathy allows me to make sure the way is clear for it to resolve. If I draw Telepathy off of a resolved Ad Nauseam, it's a good following play, since it will tell me if my next combo piece is likely to resolve or be dealt with, or to tell me which cards I should hang on to if I have to discard my mega hand down to seven at the end of the turn. Not to mention that Telepathy only costs U, and is an enchantment, which is harder for my opponents to deal with. Telepathy is pretty good 1v1, and even better against multiple opponents, which is what this Oona list is all about.
I may occasionally miss Skirge Familiar when I find myself needing colored mana, but I think the added insurance that Telepathy will consistently provide is well worth the trade off, IMO.
You should try out Cephalid Coliseum. Land that digs for you when you no longer need the mana. It's also "target player" so you can hit someone after you've Oona'd them in case you can't wait until their upkeep for whatever reason.
Well, since adding Telepathy to the deck list, I have only seen it twice in the games I've played since then. The first time, it was in my opening hand, and I played it turn 1. I got to see what each of my opponents was holding, and it allowed me to play around the counter magic. It seemed like nobody wanted to waste their removal on it, it was more just annoying for them. The second time I drew Telepathy, it was drawn later in the game, and was irrelevant to the game. So far, I have found it useful, and wouldn't describe it as a "bad" choice. But I won't argue with you and say that it's amazing either. In my view, in light of my experience with Telepathy so far, Telepathy is simply "pretty good". As far as top-decking it goes, it is similar in value to top-decking a counter spell as far as I'm concerned. Also, I kind of like that the other players get to see each others hands (except mine, of course), since it influences their play choices too. In my game, when the Edric guy saw that the Teneb guy was holding Wrath of God, I am positive that that sort of knowledge helps shift some of the counter-magic agenda away from me and towards others. Telepathy is nifty that way. Having said all of that, Telepathy does fill one of the few flex slots of the list, and does not provide an absolutely essential role. It could just as easily be an extra counter spell or a tutor.
In a multiplayer environment, people are going to be gunning for you when you're playing Oona. So, I kind of like the information provided by Telepathy, letting you know whether you can go all-in on the combo when the path is clear, or whether you need to hang back, and wait for your opponents to over-commit.
I think I'm going to try Cyclonic Rift in place of Capsize and see if I like it. Cyclonic Rift seems really versatile and only has one U in both of its mana costs, which can make a difference. With all of this deck's fast mana, the overload cost is quite doable. Unlike Capsize, Cyclonic Rift won't bounce my own permanents though, so I want to see if I miss or notice this drawback of Cyclonic Rift. The decklist in the opening post is updated with the following change:
I'd like to ask about Doubling Cube. Is there another infinite mana combo with it I'm just missing or is it simply another color fixer + burst with voltaic key?
If you do the math on it, it is possible to get infinite mana with Doubling Cube and Capsize (a card I'm not running, at the moment), but it will not happen in practice, only in magical puppies and hugs land. That aside, I like Doubling Cube in this deck because once your mana is ramped up sufficiently (beyond 6) it both accelerates your mana and color-fixes your mana, which matters in this type of deck. Converting mana from colorless to U or B can make all of the difference sometimes. I never really have a problem getting past 6 mana quickly with all of the artifact acceleration we run. With Voltaic Key it's especially great, as you've observed. There have been the odd games where my fast combo plans have been shut down via countermagic or other disruption, and I've had nothing else to spend my mana on, so I just cast Oona and start milling the old fashioned way. When I've had to do this, with Doubling Cube, I usually can mill 10-15 cards from someone's library per turn, which, if your opponent is mono-colored, usually translates to 6-10 1/1 flyers per turn, which is awesome. I've ended up using this approach to buy time in the past, and in those instances, Doubling Cube's utility reals becomes apparent. That's another reason I love playing Oona: as long as you have mana, you can cast her and start going aggro. If she's dealt with later, who cares, you'll just cast her again or assemble your combo and win anyway. We always have a useful way to spend mana when piloting Oona, which makes Doubling Cube worth running, in my opinion. Also, it has a low CMC, so it doesn't really hurt to flip it to Ad Nauseam.
All of that being said, I definitely wouldn't consider Doubling Cube to be an Oona staple or anything, but I personally like it, even though I thought I'd hate it at first. Only after testing it did I change my mind. I still consider it to be in one of the flex-slots of the deck, though. Also, I happen to have a foil one which looks pretty
Ha, I was sitting doing math thinking if there was another infinite mana engine with Cube, Key, and Rings. Probably too much to be rational. Yea, capsize is probably too cute of a trick as well but I'm still running it because well...buyback bounce.
Artificer's intuition is very good in this deck. You cast it then tutor yawg win and flat out kill the table a large amount of the time. It also turns every other card into crypt/ring. Rhystic study would be a good cut.
Other suggestions
Cut exsanguinate for time warp. the drain is nice if you can go infinite but NOT produce 6 colored at the same time, however while that just wins it is also dead half the time. It's intrinsically better to run warp because warp is good outside that situation. The extra 3 mana in the deck is a wash compared to how much you gain (a card that isn't a blank any more) If you assemble infinite mana you should be able to win from here on the extra turn by producing 6 colored (which shouldn't be hard).
Cut BSZ for death cloud. Cloud eats 2-3 lands and cards in people's hands in addition to clearing stuff out. 99% of the time you come out ahead. It is a crippling disruption spell I strongly recommend it. You can often run away with the game turn 3-4 with a cloud if you had a good opening hand.
How are you not playing tidesprout tyrant that card is a house and entirely worth it (taking 8 off adnauseam means you win right then and there with the card)
Thanks for your suggestions. I've been meaning to cut Exsanguinate for while, and you bring up some good points. There's been a lot of great Oona discussions going on as of late, and so I am testing out a few new changes as follows:
OUT: Brittle Effigy--I have enough other cards that can deal with creature threats (Black Sun's Zenith, a few bounce effects, and now Death Cloud) in the deck list, and I think this card just doesn't do enough to warrant a spot on the list. Rhystic Study--I still think this is a good card, but in a dedicated combo deck I'd rather have Exsanguinate--I never use it.
IN: Scroll Rack--Let's me manipulate my library, and seems good, so I'll try it. Artificer's Intuition--I like that it not only gets me my acceleration artifacts, but also Sensei's Divining Top and Candelabra of Tawnos, when I need them. And it's a repeatable enchantment, allowing me to trade Thran Dynamo for a Mana Crypt, which is pretty good. Death Cloud--I'll give this a shot. I would totally run Duress and Thoughtseize for targeted discard if this was a 1v1 only build. I think Death Cloud might be a similar disruption effect better suited for multiplayer, so we'll see how I like this.
If the cloud doesn't work you really need to be playing Mind Twist. Hell if it does work find a spot for it. Dunno if I'll be able to test Artificers Intution for a while so keep me updated on how it plays. I have too many other things to test.
My biggest hesitation with Death Cloud is the BBB mana requirement. I can envision myself sitting there with only two B mana-producers wishing Death Cloud was a different card. But, I guess that's what testing is for, and I like the potential this card has for neutering the hands and board state of multiple opponents simultaneously early in the game. It may not work out that way, but a man can dream.
...and...I soooooo wish Mind Twist said "each opponent", or even "each player", instead of "target player", in which case it would be an auto-include for me. In my playgroup, if I'm facing down Arcum, Edric, and Zur simultaneously in a cut-throat multiplayer game (and these guys are present in my meta), I don't even know who to target with this thing. It's like blocking a punch in the face only to get a knife to the ribs and a kick in the nuts instead.
My biggest hesitation with Death Cloud is the mana requirement. I can envision myself sitting there with only two mana-producers wishing Death Cloud was a different card. But, I guess that's what testing is for, and I like the potential this card has for neutering the hands and board state of multiple opponents simultaneously early in the game. It may not work out that way, but a man can dream.
Just make your land drops, you will be able to cast it T3-4 for 2-4 often enough that you will just win. Late game it can be a self contained win con.
I also have been tinkering with scroll rack. It is decent but I feel like it always is a waste of a card. I would consider tidesprout tyrant, it wins the game by itself. I run it with ad nauseam AND dark confidant, it's not that bad. Think about it this way, if they run 4 bobs and a blightsteel in the same deck so can you. Strongly recommend trying it at least once. It often get's cast, takes you to infinite and you deck them all.
So, I've started doing some testing to see if I really like Tidespout Tyrant, Artificer's Intuition, and Death Cloud in my current build of Oona. I am still undecided on whether these cards warrant a spot in the list or not, but I thought I'd post my preliminary observations after about a dozen test-games. These test games are kind of in a vacuum, since I've been goldfishing these test-games without a real opponent, trying to see if I like the cards or not. Also note that my current build is meant to be fast and consistent, which means it is not uncommon to be making your move on turn 4 or so.
Tidespout Tyrant - is super fun, when he works. The mana cost of 5UUU isn't a deal-breaker when you flip it off of Ad Nauseam. But, given that the overall CMC of my list is pretty low, I now have to be extra careful when I get down to 10 life or so to stop flipping cards. I'm usually pretty aggressive off of Ad Nauseam, and keep drawing cards until I have about 5 life. If I run Tidespout, I have to stop at about 10, which so far has meant drawing maybe 5 or so less cards per Ad Nauseam with Tidespout in the list. I refuse to gamble and randomly kill myself to an Ad Nauseam flip, but I know some other people who are okay with gambling on this...not me. Of my test games, there were 7 that I played where I landed an EOT Ad Nauseam and flipped a bunch of cards, including Tidespout. Of these games, there were 2 games where the best play was to use the Tidespout to generate infinite mana and win, and it does function a bit like a one-card combo. The other 5 games, either I had a turn 4/5 Ad Nauseam, and on the next turn did not have enough mana to land the Tidespout and the other mana rocks etc. to combo out. There were a couple of these games where I had like a Mana Vault and land on turn 1, a tutor and land on turn 2, and a Dark Ritual and Ad Nauseam at the end of turn 3 to go and win on turn 4. At this point in the game, even with my drawn mana rocks, I just didn't have 5UUU to spare for the Tidespout, and it was awkward. It was just better to tutor for my other combo pieces, of which I have several in the current list. In the 2 games the Tidespout won, one of them I could have won with my other tutors and Grim/Power, so it was win-more. There was only one test game I played where the only way I could see to win was with the Tidespout. I still don't have enough games in with this to draw a final conclusion, but so far, I don't think the Tidespout is necessary. I'm going to keep testing this for now, and see if I change my mind. I can see how it would be awesome later in game, when paying 5UUU isn't an issue. Also, Tidespout with Doubling Cube was uber-fun.
Artificer's Intuition - I love tutors. Just look at my list. But...this tutor costs us an artifact card in addition to U to fetch another 1 or less CMC artifact. It seems to me so far that very often I've had Artificer's Intuition in my hand, and either no artifacts to pitch to it, or artifacts that I was unwilling to pitch to it. I'm alright trading a Thran Dynamo or Dimir Signet for a Mana Crypt, but there are a lot of other useful pieces I really don't want to pitch. Of course, this depends on the game-state and other cards in your hand or if you're holding tutors, etc. Artificer's Intuition is pretty good when it's drawn off of an Ad Nauseam, though, since you'll often have artifacts your willing to pitch. The problem is that it can't fetch your most important artifacts: Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, Gemstone Array/Mycosynth Lattice (if you're running it). Even a transmute tutor is better than Artificer's Intuition in this case, because you can always get Demonic Tutor or Tainted Pact with a transmuter. I reserve the right to change my mind on this one too, though, since I'm still testing it.
Death Cloud - I agree that getting the BBB to cast it hasn't been a problem. Also, I like this card a lot, but I have to learn to use it. In a recent game 1v1 against a Krenko deck, I cast it on turn 4 with a Sol Ring to try and slow him down and nuke his board position (which I did), and in the process lost all but one of my lands too (an Underground Sea). He ended up making his subsequent land drops while I drew not a single land for the next four turns! Then he played Blood Moon and I didn't have a counter. It was game over for me there. I'm pretty sure I misplayed this somewhere, but that's been my only experience casting Death Cloud so far, so I'll see if I can figure this card out.
On Artificer's Intuition. I think the real dealbreaker here is we are not Sharuum. We lack the recursion to truly abuse the card early on unless it's off of AN. Our resources are far more precious as we honestly can't get things back outside of Yawg's Will.
On Artificer's Intuition. I think the real dealbreaker here is we are not Sharuum. We lack the recursion to truly abuse the card early on unless it's off of AN. Our resources are far more precious as we honestly can't get things back outside of Yawg's Will.
Yeah, in my preliminary testing, I'd say you're correct on this. I used to run Argivian Restoration for an extra recursion piece, but ended up cutting this for more redundancy. Maybe it'll find its way back in the list one day, we'll see if any slots free up.
Let me know how your testing goes with Tidespout Tyrant. I'm very interested in your findings, since I know our decklists are a bit different.
Yeah, in my preliminary testing, I'd say you're correct on this. I used to run Argivian Restoration for an extra recursion piece, but ended up cutting this for more redundancy. Maybe it'll find its way back in the list one day, we'll see if any slots free up.
Let me know how your testing goes with Tidespout Tyrant. I'm very interested in your findings, since I know our decklists are a bit different.
Will do. Might not be a while though, I'm still displaced from my house due to the hurricane so meeting my friends to play is a chore. I plan on testing Tidespout instead of Helm/Leyline combo. Also gonna try Lattice+Rebuild.
I think they are very different cards. On that note I'd run both.
Although tucking generals is great, the best of the 1UU counters I am running is Forbid, since when I'm forced on the defensive, it's possible to buy it back, unlike Spell Crumple and Hinder. Therefore, I'm making the following changes.
OUT:
Hinder, Spell Crumple -- too expensive to cast, although versatile.
IN:
Delay, Negate -- only have a single U in their mana costs, and in this combo-focused deck, should be just as effective. Delay buys me three turns to find another answer, and will just as often counter their counter to protect my combo. Negate should be fine since if I'm worried about a certain creature hitting the board, I'll likely just tutor for some kind of bounce or removal spell.
With these changes, I still have 10 counterspells in the current list, which seems to be about the correct amount for my play style. Do you guys agree with these changes?
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Is the buyback on capsize really that relevant? I think into the roil is better for being able to draw and only costing 1U. Is brittle effigy being an artifact worth the huge mana cost? Slaughter pact is free, an instant and can be tutored with tolaria west and hits most (all?) of the targets you want to hit. Ghastly demise can work for this as well as it is better in the early game.
When you aren't comboing off, Time Spiral as a free draw 7 and Jace, the Mindsculptor are two of the best things you can be doing. You could consider Devestation Tide as a cheaper alternative to Oblivion Stone with your topdeck tutors or All is Dust as it doesn't hit artifacts.
Dark Confidant , Shadowmage Infiltrator and Phyrexian Arena may be worth a look at as well.
What is the metagame you play in, as this definitely influences some of these card choices.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I agree with you that having the cheapest possible counters, that still function the way they'll need to (i.e. they are not too conditional, based on this combo-focused deck), is worth discussing. I have previously thought quite a bit about Dispel and Flusterstorm. I have not really considered Spell Pierce, since when I'm facing down Azami and Arcum, I really don't want to be stuck with useless counter in hand, and if it's later in the game, someone will just pay the extra mana. So, Spell Pierce is too conditional IMO. If I was building a 1v1 version of Oona, and was always trying to race my single opponent, then Spell Pierce would be a decent choice, since I'd most likely only ever be using it early in the game. But, with multiple opponents, it is often wiser to wait a few turns until all of the pieces are in place before you try and combo off, which makes the "unless they pay 2" clause unacceptable. The reason I do not currently have Dispel or Flusterstorm in the list is that they are only really good at protecting my combo, not necessarily stopping someone else's (I'm looking at you Hermit Druid, Arcum and Azami). That is why I would way rather play Arcane Denial and be able to stop anything, at the expense of having them draw a couple of extra cards later (and one for me, which is always nice). Delay is cheap and gives me three turns to combo off myself or dig for some answers, which is also an acceptable trade-off to me. I do think I should cut Forbid for something else, though, since the buyback cost is almost always more than I'm willing to pay, costing me two cards. I'm thinking I may cut Forbid and put in Mystic Remora for a bit more draw power in the early game...I'm still thinking about it. Also, I realize they are high CMC tutors, but I've found Diabolic Revelation and Increasing Ambition to both be sooooo useful. I don't run Diabolic Tutor, which is "cheaper", but the re-usability of Increasing Ambition, along with the single B in the mana cost, makes it superior to Diabolic Tutor in this deck, IMO. If I had to cut a tutor, I think it would be Diabolic Revelation, although this card has been fun and saved my bacon on a few occasions, since my list generates a lot of colorless mana. Grab me both of my combo pieces and Pact of Negation for the reasonable price of 6BB mana? I'll take it.
The buyback on Capsize is occasionally relevant, for when the game goes a bit longer than I'd like. Mostly, it's the versatility of this card that makes me want to include. It even bounces lands, and can theoretically serve as an alternative way to get infinite mana with Doubling Cube, although this is more of a pipe-dream. Since the buyback is colorless mana, which my list has in abundance, I do prefer Capsize to Into the Roil, although Into the Roil's a solid card in it's own right.
Brittle Effigy isn't an amazing card or anything, but it does only cost 1 to cast, which makes is a turn-one rattlesnake. It also doesn't hurt much to flip off of Ad Nauseam. Also, the fact that it exiles is nice (for non-generals). Oh yes, and this is all colorless mana, which never seems to be a problem to get in this decklist. I can see this as being one of the cuttable cards, although I do need to maintain a few answers for problematic creatures. In my meta, Slaughter Pact would hit most of the targets I want to hit, so I'll test this card out. Thank you for the suggestion.
Time Spiral is an awesome card, but it will hurt too much to flip off of Ad Nauseam. Otherwise, I'd totally run it. With my playgroup, planeswalkers, especially THE planeswalker, JTMS, are dealt with immediately, making him a 2UU Brainstorm, and I have no creatures to protect him. Also, I like Oblivion Stone because I can get it out faster, tutor for it easier, and it hurts less off of Ad Nauseam. I agree with you that All is Dust is pretty much the perfect removal spell for this decklist, but when I first thinned down the overall CMC for the list to make it faster with Ad Nauseam, I ended up cutting it for Oblivion Stone. Thus far in my playtesting, I've been able to play around the fact that Oblivion Stone nukes artifacts (mine as well as theirs).
I really like Dark Confidant, and Phyrexian Arena. I'm not a huge fan of Shadowmage Infiltrator, though. A few posts ago, we were discussing card drawing options, and at the moment, I'm liking Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora over Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena. That means that if I add some more draw, I have to cut something else. My options are to cut:
-artifact mana
-tutors
-counters
-bounce, or
-removal.
To be honest, I'm not sure of what to cut to fit these extra draw engines in. Artifact mana is essential to a fast game-plan, and in my meta, the 10 counters and two bounce spells are also necessary for the deck's resiliency. I guess that leaves tutors and removal. I'm pretty light on removal as-is, with Brittle Effigy, Black Sun's Zenith, and Oblivion Stone. That leaves tutors, and right now I'm running 16, which is one tutor for every 6.25 cards, meaning statistically I should have one tutor in every opening hand if I don't have to mulligan. Any suggestions?
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
OUT:
Forbid -- I never find myself using the buyback, which is the only reason to run it in the first place.
IN:
Memory Lapse -- I'm already running Remand, and this counter is similar, minus the cantrip, but it wastes a draw step for the opponent too.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
OUT:
Diabolic Revelation
IN:
Mystic Remora
On another note, I just recalculated the CMC of this decklist (not including Oona or Ad Nauseam), and it's down to 1.45. I still have 15 tutors in the list, which works out to one tutor per every 6.67 cards, which is still pretty good. Plus, with the extra draw provided by Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora, I feel that the list gains some extra resiliency in the event that the Ad Nauseam game plan doesn't work out.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
I may occasionally miss Skirge Familiar when I find myself needing colored mana, but I think the added insurance that Telepathy will consistently provide is well worth the trade off, IMO.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
OUT:
Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
IN:
Cephalid Coliseum
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
In a multiplayer environment, people are going to be gunning for you when you're playing Oona. So, I kind of like the information provided by Telepathy, letting you know whether you can go all-in on the combo when the path is clear, or whether you need to hang back, and wait for your opponents to over-commit.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
OUT:
Capsize
IN:
Cyclonic Rift
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
All of that being said, I definitely wouldn't consider Doubling Cube to be an Oona staple or anything, but I personally like it, even though I thought I'd hate it at first. Only after testing it did I change my mind. I still consider it to be in one of the flex-slots of the deck, though. Also, I happen to have a foil one which looks pretty
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Also, check your PM's brah.
Other suggestions
Cut exsanguinate for time warp. the drain is nice if you can go infinite but NOT produce 6 colored at the same time, however while that just wins it is also dead half the time. It's intrinsically better to run warp because warp is good outside that situation. The extra 3 mana in the deck is a wash compared to how much you gain (a card that isn't a blank any more) If you assemble infinite mana you should be able to win from here on the extra turn by producing 6 colored (which shouldn't be hard).
Cut BSZ for death cloud. Cloud eats 2-3 lands and cards in people's hands in addition to clearing stuff out. 99% of the time you come out ahead. It is a crippling disruption spell I strongly recommend it. You can often run away with the game turn 3-4 with a cloud if you had a good opening hand.
How are you not playing tidesprout tyrant that card is a house and entirely worth it (taking 8 off adnauseam means you win right then and there with the card)
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
OUT:
Brittle Effigy--I have enough other cards that can deal with creature threats (Black Sun's Zenith, a few bounce effects, and now Death Cloud) in the deck list, and I think this card just doesn't do enough to warrant a spot on the list.
Rhystic Study--I still think this is a good card, but in a dedicated combo deck I'd rather have
Exsanguinate--I never use it.
IN:
Scroll Rack--Let's me manipulate my library, and seems good, so I'll try it.
Artificer's Intuition--I like that it not only gets me my acceleration artifacts, but also Sensei's Divining Top and Candelabra of Tawnos, when I need them. And it's a repeatable enchantment, allowing me to trade Thran Dynamo for a Mana Crypt, which is pretty good.
Death Cloud--I'll give this a shot. I would totally run Duress and Thoughtseize for targeted discard if this was a 1v1 only build. I think Death Cloud might be a similar disruption effect better suited for multiplayer, so we'll see how I like this.
I'll let you all know how these work out.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
...and...I soooooo wish Mind Twist said "each opponent", or even "each player", instead of "target player", in which case it would be an auto-include for me. In my playgroup, if I'm facing down Arcum, Edric, and Zur simultaneously in a cut-throat multiplayer game (and these guys are present in my meta), I don't even know who to target with this thing. It's like blocking a punch in the face only to get a knife to the ribs and a kick in the nuts instead.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Just make your land drops, you will be able to cast it T3-4 for 2-4 often enough that you will just win. Late game it can be a self contained win con.
I also have been tinkering with scroll rack. It is decent but I feel like it always is a waste of a card. I would consider tidesprout tyrant, it wins the game by itself. I run it with ad nauseam AND dark confidant, it's not that bad. Think about it this way, if they run 4 bobs and a blightsteel in the same deck so can you. Strongly recommend trying it at least once. It often get's cast, takes you to infinite and you deck them all.
Wizards in relation to modern.
"The bannings will continue until attendance improves."
Not sure if trolling or just very stupid.:fry:
Tidespout Tyrant - is super fun, when he works. The mana cost of 5UUU isn't a deal-breaker when you flip it off of Ad Nauseam. But, given that the overall CMC of my list is pretty low, I now have to be extra careful when I get down to 10 life or so to stop flipping cards. I'm usually pretty aggressive off of Ad Nauseam, and keep drawing cards until I have about 5 life. If I run Tidespout, I have to stop at about 10, which so far has meant drawing maybe 5 or so less cards per Ad Nauseam with Tidespout in the list. I refuse to gamble and randomly kill myself to an Ad Nauseam flip, but I know some other people who are okay with gambling on this...not me. Of my test games, there were 7 that I played where I landed an EOT Ad Nauseam and flipped a bunch of cards, including Tidespout. Of these games, there were 2 games where the best play was to use the Tidespout to generate infinite mana and win, and it does function a bit like a one-card combo. The other 5 games, either I had a turn 4/5 Ad Nauseam, and on the next turn did not have enough mana to land the Tidespout and the other mana rocks etc. to combo out. There were a couple of these games where I had like a Mana Vault and land on turn 1, a tutor and land on turn 2, and a Dark Ritual and Ad Nauseam at the end of turn 3 to go and win on turn 4. At this point in the game, even with my drawn mana rocks, I just didn't have 5UUU to spare for the Tidespout, and it was awkward. It was just better to tutor for my other combo pieces, of which I have several in the current list. In the 2 games the Tidespout won, one of them I could have won with my other tutors and Grim/Power, so it was win-more. There was only one test game I played where the only way I could see to win was with the Tidespout. I still don't have enough games in with this to draw a final conclusion, but so far, I don't think the Tidespout is necessary. I'm going to keep testing this for now, and see if I change my mind. I can see how it would be awesome later in game, when paying 5UUU isn't an issue. Also, Tidespout with Doubling Cube was uber-fun.
Artificer's Intuition - I love tutors. Just look at my list. But...this tutor costs us an artifact card in addition to U to fetch another 1 or less CMC artifact. It seems to me so far that very often I've had Artificer's Intuition in my hand, and either no artifacts to pitch to it, or artifacts that I was unwilling to pitch to it. I'm alright trading a Thran Dynamo or Dimir Signet for a Mana Crypt, but there are a lot of other useful pieces I really don't want to pitch. Of course, this depends on the game-state and other cards in your hand or if you're holding tutors, etc. Artificer's Intuition is pretty good when it's drawn off of an Ad Nauseam, though, since you'll often have artifacts your willing to pitch. The problem is that it can't fetch your most important artifacts: Grim Monolith, Basalt Monolith, Gemstone Array/Mycosynth Lattice (if you're running it). Even a transmute tutor is better than Artificer's Intuition in this case, because you can always get Demonic Tutor or Tainted Pact with a transmuter. I reserve the right to change my mind on this one too, though, since I'm still testing it.
Death Cloud - I agree that getting the BBB to cast it hasn't been a problem. Also, I like this card a lot, but I have to learn to use it. In a recent game 1v1 against a Krenko deck, I cast it on turn 4 with a Sol Ring to try and slow him down and nuke his board position (which I did), and in the process lost all but one of my lands too (an Underground Sea). He ended up making his subsequent land drops while I drew not a single land for the next four turns! Then he played Blood Moon and I didn't have a counter. It was game over for me there. I'm pretty sure I misplayed this somewhere, but that's been my only experience casting Death Cloud so far, so I'll see if I can figure this card out.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Let me know how your testing goes with Tidespout Tyrant. I'm very interested in your findings, since I know our decklists are a bit different.
This "love" intrigues me. Teach me to fake it.
UR Nin, the Pain Artist
WUB Zur the Enchanter (Retired)
UB Oona, Queen of the Fae (Pseudo-Retired)
Will do. Might not be a while though, I'm still displaced from my house due to the hurricane so meeting my friends to play is a chore. I plan on testing Tidespout instead of Helm/Leyline combo. Also gonna try Lattice+Rebuild.