I get the drawbacks of piper, and by all means I'm open to suggestions. What other card would you use that is easily fetched and reusable and recurred like the piper can be?
Sneak Attack is SO much better, it's not even close.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
It's possible. I often see people trying to play Kresh in a Voltron-style deck. It never works that well, and eventually they either move on to another legend, or figure out that Attrition works much better.
Here's the top 4 uses for Kresh in my deck, in order from highest to lowest:
Oh, and for the Wurmcoil Engine debate - although he can be tough to tutor for sometimes, he really creates too much value to pass up. Not to keep bringing up Warstorm Surge, but playing Wurmcoil with that and a sac outlet turns him into a 3-for-1 in an ideal scenario.
@Wurmcoil: I get it, if you take into account the tutoring issue when evaluating, and it is still good enough to play, then you've got a solid card choice.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
Ohhh, there is no debate that Sneak Attack is better than Elvish Piper. Which is why Sneak Attack is also in my build, but with the base deck list here you can't tutor for sneak attack, if it was in the deck.
Oh, and for the Wurmcoil Engine debate - although he can be tough to tutor for sometimes, he really creates too much value to pass up. Not to keep bringing up Warstorm Surge, but playing Wurmcoil with that and a sac outlet turns him into a 3-for-1 in an ideal scenario.
I would say that I Fling him for the win more often than I sac him to Greater Good or the like but other than that spot on. Although he is always my first plan of attack he's never my only option.
@DDemon12: I've always preferred to just ramp into my fatties than to sneak them into play. It's not as flashy but doesn't put a big target on your head and is much more consistent since you won't end up with situations like Sneak Attack but no creature or huge eleven drop but no Sneak Attack. Your mileage may vary of course every group is different.
I currently have elvish piper in one of my test slots. I love to see him aboutb25% of the time, but don't carefor him the rest. Because this deck has so many creatures I love to see him out on turn 3 when I don'the any other ramp. He is kind of like psuedo ramp. I hate to see him when I have ramp, don't have other high cost creatures in my hand, or late game.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
This may sound silly but I think having some text that isn't in a quote box would be nice. Just something to catch peoples attention right off the bat.
A picture of a graph of your deck's colors, stats for instant, sorcery, creatures etc from a site like tappedout could be cool. So could pictures of the best cards in the deck.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Dm225! Hey, man. Your Kresh deck is completely awesome, and it inspired me to rebuild my own Kresh deck yet again. This iteration of it is incredibly similar to your list, and that is by design. Here's a link to it!
I'd be honored if you would check it out real quick! There are really just a few key differences, mostly personal preference and metagame decisions, but they're very close to being twins!
The Jund colors are by far my favorite to use, so I knew I wouldn't be able to stay away for long. By the way, how has Jund Charm done for you in the past? I love modal spells, and I've had the Charm in past versions of the deck, but I don't feel that it's needed. I have enough graveyard hate as it is, a small creature buff isn't very impressive to me without trample, and dealing 2 damage is basically a worse Lightning Bolt. That said, I love cards with utility, so Jund Charm is certainly very high on my list of cards to watch.
Dm225! Hey, man. Your Kresh deck is completely awesome, and it inspired me to rebuild my own Kresh deck yet again. This iteration of it is incredibly similar to your list, and that is by design. Here's a link to it!
I'd be honored if you would check it out real quick! There are really just a few key differences, mostly personal preference and metagame decisions, but they're very close to being twins!
The Jund colors are by far my favorite to use, so I knew I wouldn't be able to stay away for long. By the way, how has Jund Charm done for you in the past? I love modal spells, and I've had the Charm in past versions of the deck, but I don't feel that it's needed. I have enough graveyard hate as it is, a small creature buff isn't very impressive to me without trample, and dealing 2 damage is basically a worse Lightning Bolt. That said, I love cards with utility, so Jund Charm is certainly very high on my list of cards to watch.
Thanks glad to hear I inspired someone! I'll be sure to take a good look at your list later tonight when I get home. As far as Jund Charm it's something I used to run in my list for a long time and I only ever used it as an instant speed grave hate. In my playgroup graveyard based decks are few and far between so even the two I have right now are starting to feel like a little too much. I've been considering cutting Withered Wretch for that reason actually. I've also been looking at adding some more sacrifice outlets like Goblin Bombardment, Phyrexian Altar, and Ashnod's Altar. Thoughts?
Withered Wretch was once in my list, and he's definitely good. However, Scavenging Ooze's similar ability and ability to grow bigger just pushes it over the top and makes Withered unnecessary for me.
Heh, oh, do I ever have toughts on sac outlets. They're basically my favorite thing ever, since it denies your opponent the "kill" and usually nets you advantage! Awesome, delicious advantage.
Anyway:
Goblin Bombardment - It's a fine sac outlet, and relatively cheap to cast. It's not my style though, as I like my pings to the player to be much bigger. Certainly not a bad idea to run, though.
Phyrexian Altar - One mana of any color is nice off the sacrifice, but it's not as good for me as...
Ashnod's Altar - As you'll see when you check out my list later, Ashnod's Altar is ridiculously amazing. Gives you a sac outlet and spare mana, helping those X-costs or other mana sinks get off the ground easily. It's also the final cog in the janktastic Slowest Combo Ever(tm)!
Looks good/fun. May I suggest that you focus less space on you and why people should listen to you and more on the deck, how it plays, and why you chose certain cards? Then things like synergies and little intricate plays would be nice. I say this because people want info on the deck and not necessarily you.
I like the pictures, and this is what they tell me: you play big guys, you make copies of big guys, and you are able to tutor for big guys. How about some other aspects? This is just nitpicking but I like finding meaning in art I guess? Something that represents creatures dying/control would be another good one.
This might help too. Here is a list of questions people may ask about kresh that could spice it up:
Why did you (would someone) choose him or jund colors?
What is a normal game like? (I think you have this covered with the early, mid late game)
How did you go about your building process and what did you find to be good/synergistic?
What cards seemed awesome but ended up not being awesome and why? (common noob traps for kresh?)
What are some of the most fun synergies and interactions in the deck?
How do you usually win?
How do you face off against certain play styles or commanders?
What makes this deck strong?
What makes this deck weak?
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Looks good/fun. May I suggest that you focus less space on you and why people should listen to you and more on the deck, how it plays, and why you chose certain cards? Then things like synergies and little intricate plays would be nice. I say this because people want info on the deck and not necessarily you.
I like the pictures, and this is what they tell me: you play big guys, you make copies of big guys, and you are able to tutor for big guys. How about some other aspects? This is just nitpicking but I like finding meaning in art I guess? Something that represents creatures dying/control would be another good one.
This might help too. Here is a list of questions people may ask about kresh that could spice it up:
Why did you (would someone) choose him or jund colors?
What is a normal game like? (I think you have this covered with the early, mid late game)
How did you go about your building process and what did you find to be good/synergistic?
What cards seemed awesome but ended up not being awesome and why? (common noob traps for kresh?)
What are some of the most fun synergies and interactions in the deck?
How do you usually win?
How do you face off against certain play styles or commanders?
What makes this deck strong?
What makes this deck weak?
All around good job man.
Thanks for the advice. Obviously I still have a lot to add to the primer the main thing being card choices which will include most of the info you are looking for. The problem is that this is the most time consuming part which is why it is the last part I'm adding. I can see your point about the art choices and will replace some of them to mix it up a little. I'll also add a strengths and weaknesses section that's a good idea. The section about me and why people should listen to me are both requirements listed for the Primer Committee so that's why they are there and they are first because I feel that you should always introduce yourself first in any situation. Expect the rest of the content to be added over the next two days.
Lookin' good! I confess, I'm anxious for the card selection part of the primer, but take your time and get it right. Thank for all the work.
I agree.
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Card question: I'm contemplating Miren, the Moaning Well vs Grim Backwoods. Both serve as sac outlets. Which do you think will be more advantageous?
FYI I try not to run too many colorless lands in my list. (I have a pretty budget mana base.) That's why it's an either/or choice with "run both" not being the happy medium.
Card question: I'm contemplating Miren, the Moaning Well vs Grim Backwoods. Both serve as sac outlets. Which do you think will be more advantageous?
FYI I try not to run too many colorless lands in my list. (I have a pretty budget mana base.) That's why it's an either/or choice with "run both" not being the happy medium.
Have u ever sac-ed kozi to Miren? Way Bette than backwood
Have u ever sac-ed kozi to Miren? Way Bette than backwood
I disagree. I personally don't run either, instead opting for free sacrifice outlets in High Market and Phyrexian Tower, but if I did run one it would definitely be Grim Backwoods. The downside is it costs one more to activate and two of that mana is colored. Let's compare the effects though; one allows you to draw a card while the other allows you to gain life equal to the sacrificed creatures toughness. Now I can't think of many situations where I would want life gain over card draw. Your example of sacrificing Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is very narrow and not even a card I would run since shuffling my graveyard into my deck is something I want to avoid since it shuts off Living Death and to an extent Lord of Extinction.
In other news I've been rather ill and with that on top of all the wedding planning I haven't had a chance to continue work on the primer. I hope to sit down and get a good chunk written up tonight if I can manage it after work but no promises. I also think I'm going with the following changes to the list.
Ugh... you are dropping sylvan library? It's one of those cards I just love to see in my hand early and mid game. That's also 3 card draw cards gone, so keep an eye on that.
What purpose are you adding those sac outlets for? A combo? I admit it would be fun to altar of dementia a LoE on someone a few times, but seems possibly win more and ahs low synergy with the rest of the deck considering it's hard to mill through 100~ cards. And then that's only one person down.
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():
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EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
Ugh... you are dropping sylvan library? It's one of those cards I just love to see in my hand early and mid game. That's also 3 card draw cards gone, so keep an eye on that.
What purpose are you adding those sac outlets for? A combo? I admit it would be fun to altar of dementia a LoE on someone a few times, but seems possibly win more and ahs low synergy with the rest of the deck considering it's hard to mill through 100~ cards. And then that's only one person down.
I don't actually own a Sylvan Library and have had Goblin Bombardment in it's place until I get one just updating the list with what I'm actually running. Ideally I want Library over Bombardment when I get one. The sacrifice outlets are there for a couple reasons. They help cards like Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir by allowing me to sacrifice any amount of creatures at instant speed for free. The main thing though is the ability to sacrifice my creatures to make Kresh lethal. If you don't like those what do you think I should add instead?
Sneak Attack is SO much better, it's not even close.
Here's the top 4 uses for Kresh in my deck, in order from highest to lowest:
1. Hold down the fort in the command zone
2. Get sac'd to Momentous Fall, Disciple of Bolas, or Greater Good for some massive CA
3. Get Flinged for the win
4. Attack for general damage
Oh, and for the Wurmcoil Engine debate - although he can be tough to tutor for sometimes, he really creates too much value to pass up. Not to keep bringing up Warstorm Surge, but playing Wurmcoil with that and a sac outlet turns him into a 3-for-1 in an ideal scenario.
stuff
I approve this message.
@Wurmcoil: I get it, if you take into account the tutoring issue when evaluating, and it is still good enough to play, then you've got a solid card choice.
I would say that I Fling him for the win more often than I sac him to Greater Good or the like but other than that spot on. Although he is always my first plan of attack he's never my only option.
@DDemon12: I've always preferred to just ramp into my fatties than to sneak them into play. It's not as flashy but doesn't put a big target on your head and is much more consistent since you won't end up with situations like Sneak Attack but no creature or huge eleven drop but no Sneak Attack. Your mileage may vary of course every group is different.
Experimental Kraj
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Experimental Kraj
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
I like it, looks good. I assume you went through the Prime Guide to see all of their requirements? If so, I think that's all you should need.
Thanks. I now have Vitamin Water spit all over my keyboard, hands, shirt, and monitor.
A picture of a graph of your deck's colors, stats for instant, sorcery, creatures etc from a site like tappedout could be cool. So could pictures of the best cards in the deck.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Experimental Kraj
The Blood of Jund
I'd be honored if you would check it out real quick! There are really just a few key differences, mostly personal preference and metagame decisions, but they're very close to being twins!
The Jund colors are by far my favorite to use, so I knew I wouldn't be able to stay away for long. By the way, how has Jund Charm done for you in the past? I love modal spells, and I've had the Charm in past versions of the deck, but I don't feel that it's needed. I have enough graveyard hate as it is, a small creature buff isn't very impressive to me without trample, and dealing 2 damage is basically a worse Lightning Bolt. That said, I love cards with utility, so Jund Charm is certainly very high on my list of cards to watch.
Commander/EDH Decks:
BRG The Blood of Jund - Kresh the Bloodbraided BRG
WR The Blades of Goldnight - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight WR
Thanks glad to hear I inspired someone! I'll be sure to take a good look at your list later tonight when I get home. As far as Jund Charm it's something I used to run in my list for a long time and I only ever used it as an instant speed grave hate. In my playgroup graveyard based decks are few and far between so even the two I have right now are starting to feel like a little too much. I've been considering cutting Withered Wretch for that reason actually. I've also been looking at adding some more sacrifice outlets like Goblin Bombardment, Phyrexian Altar, and Ashnod's Altar. Thoughts?
Experimental Kraj
Heh, oh, do I ever have toughts on sac outlets. They're basically my favorite thing ever, since it denies your opponent the "kill" and usually nets you advantage! Awesome, delicious advantage.
Anyway:
Goblin Bombardment - It's a fine sac outlet, and relatively cheap to cast. It's not my style though, as I like my pings to the player to be much bigger. Certainly not a bad idea to run, though.
Phyrexian Altar - One mana of any color is nice off the sacrifice, but it's not as good for me as...
Ashnod's Altar - As you'll see when you check out my list later, Ashnod's Altar is ridiculously amazing. Gives you a sac outlet and spare mana, helping those X-costs or other mana sinks get off the ground easily. It's also the final cog in the janktastic Slowest Combo Ever(tm)!
Commander/EDH Decks:
BRG The Blood of Jund - Kresh the Bloodbraided BRG
WR The Blades of Goldnight - Gisela, Blade of Goldnight WR
Thinking about making the following changes to add some sacrifice outlets;
-Harvester of Souls
-Soul of the Harvest
+Ashnod's Altar
+Phyrexian Altar
Also, if anyone would like their list featured under "Additional Resources" just let me know and I'll add it.
Experimental Kraj
All cards are also AMAZING on their own.
I <3 decks without Sol Ring
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
I like the pictures, and this is what they tell me: you play big guys, you make copies of big guys, and you are able to tutor for big guys. How about some other aspects? This is just nitpicking but I like finding meaning in art I guess? Something that represents creatures dying/control would be another good one.
This might help too. Here is a list of questions people may ask about kresh that could spice it up:
Why did you (would someone) choose him or jund colors?
What is a normal game like? (I think you have this covered with the early, mid late game)
How did you go about your building process and what did you find to be good/synergistic?
What cards seemed awesome but ended up not being awesome and why? (common noob traps for kresh?)
What are some of the most fun synergies and interactions in the deck?
How do you usually win?
How do you face off against certain play styles or commanders?
What makes this deck strong?
What makes this deck weak?
All around good job man.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Thanks for the advice. Obviously I still have a lot to add to the primer the main thing being card choices which will include most of the info you are looking for. The problem is that this is the most time consuming part which is why it is the last part I'm adding. I can see your point about the art choices and will replace some of them to mix it up a little. I'll also add a strengths and weaknesses section that's a good idea. The section about me and why people should listen to me are both requirements listed for the Primer Committee so that's why they are there and they are first because I feel that you should always introduce yourself first in any situation. Expect the rest of the content to be added over the next two days.
Experimental Kraj
Also, the new demon doesn't look too bad.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
I agree.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
FYI I try not to run too many colorless lands in my list. (I have a pretty budget mana base.) That's why it's an either/or choice with "run both" not being the happy medium.
BR Sleeper Ascension - Casual
Have u ever sac-ed kozi to Miren? Way Bette than backwood
I disagree. I personally don't run either, instead opting for free sacrifice outlets in High Market and Phyrexian Tower, but if I did run one it would definitely be Grim Backwoods. The downside is it costs one more to activate and two of that mana is colored. Let's compare the effects though; one allows you to draw a card while the other allows you to gain life equal to the sacrificed creatures toughness. Now I can't think of many situations where I would want life gain over card draw. Your example of sacrificing Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is very narrow and not even a card I would run since shuffling my graveyard into my deck is something I want to avoid since it shuts off Living Death and to an extent Lord of Extinction.
In other news I've been rather ill and with that on top of all the wedding planning I haven't had a chance to continue work on the primer. I hope to sit down and get a good chunk written up tonight if I can manage it after work but no promises. I also think I'm going with the following changes to the list.
-Harvester of Souls
-Soul of the Harvest
-Sylvan Library (I don't actually own one)
+Altar of Dementia (Couldn't find and an Ashnod's Altar)
+Phyrexian Altar
+Goblin Bombardment
Edit: Also thinking about lowering the curve a little by swapping out Tooth and Nail and Decree of Pain for Natural Order and Cultivate.
Experimental Kraj
What purpose are you adding those sac outlets for? A combo? I admit it would be fun to altar of dementia a LoE on someone a few times, but seems possibly win more and ahs low synergy with the rest of the deck considering it's hard to mill through 100~ cards. And then that's only one person down.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
I don't actually own a Sylvan Library and have had Goblin Bombardment in it's place until I get one just updating the list with what I'm actually running. Ideally I want Library over Bombardment when I get one. The sacrifice outlets are there for a couple reasons. They help cards like Grave Pact and Butcher of Malakir by allowing me to sacrifice any amount of creatures at instant speed for free. The main thing though is the ability to sacrifice my creatures to make Kresh lethal. If you don't like those what do you think I should add instead?
Experimental Kraj