I'm a fan of Soulscour, since in a Sharuum deck it basically says "I win", which is what you should get for resolving a 10-mana spell. It's had a distinct impact on my Sharuum's win percentage; I think I've only ever lost once after it resolved (due to some absurd topdecks). However, it is definitely my playgroup's least favorite card in the deck, so it comes down to how badly you want to win vs how much you want to appease your meta. In my meta, if I don't have the strong endgame play for the lategame, someone will, so I'm comfortable running it. It really depends on how your meta plays out games, I think.
Polizei and OCpunisher, just wanted to say thank you for this marvelous idea of a 50$ limit deck!
I absolutely love it, as in my current meta, people are having to sell spare organs and work the street corners in order to pay for their decks and stay competitive.
I'm currently working on a Reaper King deck and I personally think it's shaping up nicely!
The whole $50 budget thing works quite well, I've been trying to figure out how to make a decent deck for a while, and they all end up costing too much. tell me do you think you can provide a list of the different combos? it looks like there is but I'm pretty sure I'm probaly missing quite a few
The whole $50 budget thing works quite well, I've been trying to figure out how to make a decent deck for a while, and they all end up costing too much. tell me do you think you can provide a list of the different combos? it looks like there is but I'm pretty sure I'm probaly missing quite a few
Well, I can try, but this deck is more about overall synergy that specific combos. There is a lot of overlap between a number of different cards in this list, so I don't have to rely on just one combo all the time.
This isn't a deck that tries to dig up the same two game-winning cards every time...rather it's a deck with a lot of powerful options that happen to interact well with each other.
Oh I see, I tried a couple of solitaire games with it on cockatrice and I found it confusing because there was so many search spells a lot of decisions to be made. I love synergy based decks, rather then cards that all search for the same killer card card combo to kill target players and this seems quite cool again props to you.
@Protomatter Powder: It has the same effect as my general, but costs two more mana and doesn't come with a 5/5 flier.
@Scarecrone: I used to run this card way back when, but at $2.50 it's a little expensive for this list. Plus, there's the golden rule about having to wait until you untap before you can use it.
@Myr Retriever: If the effect happened when it came into play (like Sanctum Gargoyle), I would definitely run it. It's a lot like Viridian Emissary: you would much rather play a card that gets you the benefit right away than have to wait for it to come into play AND get killed.
@Skeleton Shard: The fact that it only gets creature artifacts makes it a little too narrow. If it was any artifact, it would certainly be good.
@Triassic Egg: Protomatter Powder was slow, and this is even slower. Two turns, ten mana, and no extra 5/5 flier. The fact that it gets non-artifact creatures is kinda nice, since I usually have a problem getting those back. Still, it's not worth such a huge investment.
I love the work you've done to create this $50 Sharuum list. I'm a pretty big MTG newb in general, and a particularly big newb when it comes to Sharuum, so I just have a few questions for you about some of the particulars of your list, if you'll entertain them.
- I look at Grim Poppet and think "garbage," but I'm sure that's just because I don't know how he functions in the deck. I'm sure he actually does something quite well. Could you explain?
- The same goes for Pentavus, and since I don't really know what Pentavus' function in the deck is, I look at cards like Triskelion and Triskelavus and wonder, "If Pentavus, why not these too?" Could you explain?
- Moriok Replica looks like a weak card to me too, but again I trust it has a good purpose. Does it just serve as recurrable card-draw with so much artifact recursion going on?
- How does Pentavus "beat" Thopter Assembly? I really expected to see the Assembly in here.
- In general, could you list/explain the main combos/interactions that you rely on as the main win cons in the deck? What sees this deck to victory more times than any other win con? I'd love to get fluent enough with Sharuum that I could build a deck based off of your work here, tweaked a bit for my meta and playstyle.
Certainly!
- Grim Poppet functions as both a body and a colorless removal spell. He's a little expensive, which is why he has been on and off the chopping block, but his synergy with Sharuum, Master Transmuter, Mistmeadow Witch, and the like are keeping him around.
- Pentavus is in a similar role. It's also a bit expensive, so it's been on the chopping block, but its versatility is often useful. The difference between it and the Trisk's that you mentioned are that the other two can't refill themselves...once the counters are removed, that's it. The difference between Pentavus and Thopter Assembly is that with the Assembly, you have to wait until your next turn before you get any extra bodies, and then wait ANOTHER turn before you can attack with them. By that time, someone usually has an answer.
- Moriok Replica is a cheap artifact that draws cards. That's all I wanted out of it.
- The main win-cons are probably Thopter/Sword, Soulscour, or some crazy shenanigans with Master Transmuter.
- Some other key cards are Grand Architect, Mistmeadow Witch, and Salvaging Station.
It seems like none of these combos are out of this deck's range due to its budget considerations. Are these things that you have considered running, but decided are less than optimal in this deck?
I used to run Time Sieve and Thopter Assembly, but the first time I won via infinte turns, it just felt really douche-y. I still run Thopter/Sword combo because it's not an instant-win, although it does get out of hand quickly.
I run Sculpting Steel because it's an extremely useful card outside of its combo applications. I don't run Disciple or Bitter Ordeal or Glassdust Hulk because they really have no other purposes outside of auto-win combos, which in my book get old really fast.
Right now, I'm focusing on trying to find room in my budget for the foil copies of the three artifact lands that I picked up.
I used to run Time Sieve and Thopter Assembly, but the first time I won via infinte turns, it just felt really douche-y. I still run Thopter/Sword combo because it's not an instant-win, although it does get out of hand quickly.
I can understand that. Generally speaking, I feel degenerate whenever I get a combo lock off. It's not any fun for my opponents, which since I play casually is a consideration. It's not any fun for me either, so I generally don't run any infinite combos in my decks. I was just curious if you were aware of those
Along these lines, do you think that a combo-less Sharuum deckbuild is viable, or does it miss out on the reasons that you Sharuum in the first place so completely that you might as well build around a different general? I would love to have an Esper-artifact aggro-control deck. That sounds fun. But I don't know if it's really possible with Sharuum.
It's definitely possible. Although my list has plenty of combos, none of them are infinite or instant-winners. Thopter/Sword is very cheap to do, but it's still limited by the amount of mana I have on the table (and I cut Time Sieve, so it's not degenerate). Sharuum/Sculpting Steel is technically a combo, but without the third piece (Disciple/Hulk/Ordeal), it doesn't really do much.
If I were to build this for myself, I'd have to treat myself to an early birthday present and find room to include a Sphinx of the Steel Wind even though it totally breaks the budget, just because it's so awesome.
Eh, he's really not all that great. Unlike the Akromas he was modeled after, he doesn't have haste, nor trample, and he's still an artifact, so he can get Shatter-ed as well as Terminate-d. Personally, I don't think I would run him if I had the budget.
I would take the $7-10 and spend it on a Solemn Simulacrum or Phyrexian Metamorph instead. Both are much more useful in this deck. If I didn't have a budget, they would be the first two spells I would add.
Eh, he's really not all that great. Unlike the Akromas he was modeled after, he doesn't have haste, nor trample, and he's still an artifact, so he can get Shatter-ed as well as Terminate-d. Personally, I don't think I would run him if I had the budget.
I would take the $7-10 and spend it on a Solemn Simulacrum or Phyrexian Metamorph instead. Both are much more useful in this deck. If I didn't have a budget, they would be the first two spells I would add.
Awww man. See, this is why I'm bad at Magic. I look at cards and see a bunch of awesome-looking text and get all excited, failing to take the actually important things into consideration.
Speaking of which, how do you really play Sharuum herself in this deck? Do you bring her out ASAP? Do you wait until key pieces are where you need them to be and then bring in Sharuum to break them? Generally speaking, how do you utilize her?
You should read Blackjack's BIG Guide to EDH. It'll tell you a lot about the format.
I use Sharuum the way I would use Karmic Guide, or Unburial Rites. If there's something worth reanimating, go get it. If not, save it.
That's kind've how I figured she gets played. If not Sharuum, though, and if you're not comboing out to win games, who/what in your deck usually wins it for you? Do you usually win via creature damage, etc.?
I'll check out that guide, too. Thanks for the push in the right direction
Eh, he's really not all that great. Unlike the Akromas he was modeled after, he doesn't have haste, nor trample, and he's still an artifact, so he can get Shatter-ed as well as Terminate-d. Personally, I don't think I would run him if I had the budget.
I would take the $7-10 and spend it on a Solemn Simulacrum or Phyrexian Metamorph instead. Both are much more useful in this deck. If I didn't have a budget, they would be the first two spells I would add.
I assumed him to be using specific stereotypical/role-defining cards to make a more general/broad-sweeping point, which is quite simply that the Sphinx of the Steel Wind is unfortunately vulnerable to both artifact and creature removal. But your point is well taken
UPDATE: Finally got my last card (Duplicant) foiled, so this deck is now 100% shiny! Pictures to follow...
Still working on fitting in the three foil artifact lands from Mirrodin. In our group, we've eliminated the commander's cost from the cap, since we don't want to deter people from making more decks because their one commander card costs too much. So, that will add a couple more bucks to the cap.
I'm also thinking of cutting the Vivid lands from my list. If I add the artifact lands, and subtract Sharuum and the Vivids, the total cost is just over $50 on CFB.
The deck is worth only ~ $50 and it's all foils? That's insane. Are you including Sharuum?
Notes on pricing out the list:
- Basic lands don't count (anyone who has played this game long enough to know what EDH is should know how to get free basic lands).
- When evaluating prices, I try to use only one store/website at a time (currently using Troll & Toad, but it doesn't really matter which one).
- Only near mint/mint, non-foil prices should be considered, except in the case of products that only come in foil versions (like the Premium Sliver deck).
- Non-basics, all spells, and the general do count.
- All prices have been rounded to the nearest 5 cents.
- I try to use the lowest-priced single whenever possible. For example, a Duplicant from Mirrodin costs about $3, whereas an Archemeny version costs $2.
The deck is worth only ~ $50 and it's all foils? That's insane. Are you including Sharuum?
To further elaborate, the concept behind this deck is that the average person could put it together for ~$50. I went ahead and foiled mine out because I've put a lot of time into this deck and I wanted it to look good (and it doesn't have any obscure old cards that cannot be foiled). The average person isn't going to go out and get all the foils, but they can still build a competitive and well-balanced deck for a reasonable price.
I absolutely love it, as in my current meta, people are having to sell spare organs and work the street corners in order to pay for their decks and stay competitive.
I'm currently working on a Reaper King deck and I personally think it's shaping up nicely!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=361930
If you could pop over and give me some suggestions, it'd be much appreciated as I am new to the 50$ format
Well, I can try, but this deck is more about overall synergy that specific combos. There is a lot of overlap between a number of different cards in this list, so I don't have to rely on just one combo all the time.
For example, let's take a look at Spine of Ish Sah. You could argue that it combos well with Thopter Foundry, or Phyrexia's Core, or Master Transmuter, but it's also a target for Treasure Mage, and it works nicely with Sculpting Steel and Mirrorworks.
This isn't a deck that tries to dig up the same two game-winning cards every time...rather it's a deck with a lot of powerful options that happen to interact well with each other.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
protomatter powder
Scarecrone
Myr Retriever[CARD]
Skeleton Shard [/CARD]
Triassic egg
@Protomatter Powder: It has the same effect as my general, but costs two more mana and doesn't come with a 5/5 flier.
@Scarecrone: I used to run this card way back when, but at $2.50 it's a little expensive for this list. Plus, there's the golden rule about having to wait until you untap before you can use it.
@Myr Retriever: If the effect happened when it came into play (like Sanctum Gargoyle), I would definitely run it. It's a lot like Viridian Emissary: you would much rather play a card that gets you the benefit right away than have to wait for it to come into play AND get killed.
@Skeleton Shard: The fact that it only gets creature artifacts makes it a little too narrow. If it was any artifact, it would certainly be good.
@Triassic Egg: Protomatter Powder was slow, and this is even slower. Two turns, ten mana, and no extra 5/5 flier. The fact that it gets non-artifact creatures is kinda nice, since I usually have a problem getting those back. Still, it's not worth such a huge investment.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
- I look at Grim Poppet and think "garbage," but I'm sure that's just because I don't know how he functions in the deck. I'm sure he actually does something quite well. Could you explain?
- The same goes for Pentavus, and since I don't really know what Pentavus' function in the deck is, I look at cards like Triskelion and Triskelavus and wonder, "If Pentavus, why not these too?" Could you explain?
- Moriok Replica looks like a weak card to me too, but again I trust it has a good purpose. Does it just serve as recurrable card-draw with so much artifact recursion going on?
- How does Pentavus "beat" Thopter Assembly? I really expected to see the Assembly in here.
- In general, could you list/explain the main combos/interactions that you rely on as the main win cons in the deck? What sees this deck to victory more times than any other win con? I'd love to get fluent enough with Sharuum that I could build a deck based off of your work here, tweaked a bit for my meta and playstyle.
Thanks
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
- Grim Poppet functions as both a body and a colorless removal spell. He's a little expensive, which is why he has been on and off the chopping block, but his synergy with Sharuum, Master Transmuter, Mistmeadow Witch, and the like are keeping him around.
- Pentavus is in a similar role. It's also a bit expensive, so it's been on the chopping block, but its versatility is often useful. The difference between it and the Trisk's that you mentioned are that the other two can't refill themselves...once the counters are removed, that's it. The difference between Pentavus and Thopter Assembly is that with the Assembly, you have to wait until your next turn before you get any extra bodies, and then wait ANOTHER turn before you can attack with them. By that time, someone usually has an answer.
- Moriok Replica is a cheap artifact that draws cards. That's all I wanted out of it.
- The main win-cons are probably Thopter/Sword, Soulscour, or some crazy shenanigans with Master Transmuter.
- Some other key cards are Grand Architect, Mistmeadow Witch, and Salvaging Station.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I found something that I was looking for from bitterroot's [Competitive] Sharuum Combo: Riddle of the Sphinx thread.
It seems like none of these combos are out of this deck's range due to its budget considerations. Are these things that you have considered running, but decided are less than optimal in this deck?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I run Sculpting Steel because it's an extremely useful card outside of its combo applications. I don't run Disciple or Bitter Ordeal or Glassdust Hulk because they really have no other purposes outside of auto-win combos, which in my book get old really fast.
Right now, I'm focusing on trying to find room in my budget for the foil copies of the three artifact lands that I picked up.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
I can understand that. Generally speaking, I feel degenerate whenever I get a combo lock off. It's not any fun for my opponents, which since I play casually is a consideration. It's not any fun for me either, so I generally don't run any infinite combos in my decks. I was just curious if you were aware of those
Along these lines, do you think that a combo-less Sharuum deckbuild is viable, or does it miss out on the reasons that you Sharuum in the first place so completely that you might as well build around a different general? I would love to have an Esper-artifact aggro-control deck. That sounds fun. But I don't know if it's really possible with Sharuum.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I would take the $7-10 and spend it on a Solemn Simulacrum or Phyrexian Metamorph instead. Both are much more useful in this deck. If I didn't have a budget, they would be the first two spells I would add.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Awww man. See, this is why I'm bad at Magic. I look at cards and see a bunch of awesome-looking text and get all excited, failing to take the actually important things into consideration.
Speaking of which, how do you really play Sharuum herself in this deck? Do you bring her out ASAP? Do you wait until key pieces are where you need them to be and then bring in Sharuum to break them? Generally speaking, how do you utilize her?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I use Sharuum the way I would use Karmic Guide, or Unburial Rites. If there's something worth reanimating, go get it. If not, save it.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
That's kind've how I figured she gets played. If not Sharuum, though, and if you're not comboing out to win games, who/what in your deck usually wins it for you? Do you usually win via creature damage, etc.?
I'll check out that guide, too. Thanks for the push in the right direction
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Just for the record, Sphinx of the Steel Wind cannot be either Shatter-ed or Terminate-d.
I assumed him to be using specific stereotypical/role-defining cards to make a more general/broad-sweeping point, which is quite simply that the Sphinx of the Steel Wind is unfortunately vulnerable to both artifact and creature removal. But your point is well taken
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Still working on fitting in the three foil artifact lands from Mirrodin. In our group, we've eliminated the commander's cost from the cap, since we don't want to deter people from making more decks because their one commander card costs too much. So, that will add a couple more bucks to the cap.
I'm also thinking of cutting the Vivid lands from my list. If I add the artifact lands, and subtract Sharuum and the Vivids, the total cost is just over $50 on CFB.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
Foiling isn't taken into consideration.
To further elaborate, the concept behind this deck is that the average person could put it together for ~$50. I went ahead and foiled mine out because I've put a lot of time into this deck and I wanted it to look good (and it doesn't have any obscure old cards that cannot be foiled). The average person isn't going to go out and get all the foils, but they can still build a competitive and well-balanced deck for a reasonable price.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani