UPDATE: As of 12/01/12, I will no longer be keeping this thread active. Instead (largely due to demand from others), I will be moving this deck concept to a new thread and increasing the "cap number" from $50 to $100. All other rules and regulations will still apply. A link to the new thread is located here. I'll keep this list and all links to it intact, but I probably won't be updating it as much. Thanks to all who provided feedback and/or support on this idea!
This thread is for discussion on a slightly different kind of EDH deck. The goal is to build a complete deck (including all lands) for under $50.
This all started when a friend of mine in another state was talking about introducing some people at his local shop to the EDH format. They were concerned that a Type 1 format like this would require a large cash investment to get all of the good cards (original duals, fetches, really old artifacts, planeswalkers, etc). Someone suggested that he try to build a competitive yet cheap EDH deck. Eventually, the discussion turned to building the cheapest competitive deck for $50 or less.
Based on that discussion, I'm trying to build a competitive Sharuum deck that costs roughly $50 or less. I say "roughly" because prices fluctuate over time and different shops/dealers set different prices for the same card(s). That being said, I'm trying to get this as close to $50 as possible without decreasing the power level below the point of being completely unplayable. I chose Sharuum for a couple reasons: mana rocks are generally pretty cheap, I didn't have any decks in the Esper colors, and it seemed like an easy one to try with all of the recent artifacts from Shards block and Scars block.
Arcbound Reclaimer: Beaten by Sanctum Gargoyle, which is cheaper and allows me to recast the card I return right away. Copper Gnomes: There aren't many counters in my area, and my mana is good enough that I don't need to cheat something into play. Ethersworn Adjudicator: Too slow and too expensive. Plus, I sold my foil copy to another Sharuum player. Filigree Angel: Just a big life-gain spell, not all that exciting. Junk Diver: Beaten by Sanctum Gargoyle. I'd prefer not to wait until it dies before I get something back. Lodestone Golem: Griefer, and the body isn't very useful to me. Magsiter Sphinx: Sharuum already has a bad reputation for douchey combos. This is just a douchey card that doesn't immediately win the game. Master Transmuter: A sad cut, and one that might make me increase the cap space on this deck, but I could no longer justify the cost. Myr Retriever: See Junk Diver. Also, how is this newer uncommon worth more than the older rare (Diver) which does the same thing? Phyrexian Metamorph: Beaten by Sculpting Steel, and by the fact that it's still Standard-legal. Here's hoping this gets cheaper soon, cuz I really want to play it here! Scarecrone: Too slow, a little too pricey, and the only good Scarecrow is Grim Poppet. Solemn Simulacrum: Beaten by Pilgrim's Eye. Too pricey, and too playable in Standard. Unfortunately, this guy was too pricey even before he got reprinted and became more awesome. Steel Hellkite: Seems like a great card...colorless mass removal, big body, target for Treasure Mage. Yet, somehow I can't remember the last time I activated him. Thopter Assembly: Beaten by Pentavus. Once I cut Time Sieve, there was much purpose for this guy. Thopter Squadron: Beaten by Pentavus. Sorcery speed and 5 mana (not 6) makes him awful.
Armillary Sphere: Beaten by Ichor Wellspring. I'd rather draw one more spell than two more basics that usually rot in my hand. Claws of Gix: Beaten by Thopter Foundry. If I get more removal coming my way and need more sac outlets, this will come in. Cloud Key: Beaten by Etherium Sculptor. Too pricey for what it does. Coalition Relic: Beaten by Darksteel Ingot, and other cheaper mana rocks. Interaction with Unwinding Clock is not enough to invest in this. Also nearly impossible to find in foil. Coldsteel Heart: Beaten by Mind Stone. Talismans and Signets come first, then Mind Stone beats this because of the draw power. Contagion Engine: Not enough things to proliferate. Crystal Ball: Beaten by Thirst for Knowledge. My draw spells need to actually draw cards, not just look for the best one to draw. Darksteel Pendant: See Crystal Ball. Everflowing Chalice: It was the most expensive mana rock I had, and Vessel of Endless Rest solved an additional problem. Grafted Skullcap: This seems pretty good, as most of my spells are artifacts, so pitching them would not be the worst thing ever. Might need to test this in the near future. Helm of Possession: Too pricey, and I have enough of my own creatures that I don't need to steal from others. Lux Cannon: Beaten by Spine of Ish Sah. Mind's Eye: Too pricey. Mycosynth Wellspring: See Armillary Sphere. Myr Turbine: Tiny bodies are fine, but there aren't any good Myrs to tutor for. Nevinyrral's Disk: Beaten by Oblivion Stone, just for budget reasons. Norn's Annex: Doesn't seem all that spectacular when everyone gets to start with 40 life. Null Brooch: Once upon a time, there was a neat interaction between Ensnaring Bridge, Grafted Skullcap, and this card. Sadly, that time has likely passed. Protomatter Powder: Had a cheap foil, thought it might add some necessary redundancy with Sharuum, didn't work in practice. Relic of Progenitus: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb and Bojuka Bog. I am a huge fan of recursion, so naturally I hate this card. My grave-haters need to be safe enough to only remove someone else's stuff, and only the stuff I don't want to re-use myself. Rings of Brighthearth: Couldn't justify the cost for basically a win-more card. Star Compass: Beaten out by Signets, Talismans, and other mana rocks. This would have been played if Darksteel Ingot and Everflowing Chalice had not come down in price. Thran Dynamo: Beaten by Everflowing Chalice, just for budget reasons. Time Sieve: I pulled off the infinite combo with Thopter Assembly once, and it didn't feel good. So, despite spending a couple bucks on foils, I cut both pieces of this combo. Tormod's Crypt: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb, but just for budget reasons. Urza's Blueprints: Beaten by Courier's Capsule, for cost purposes. Vedalken Orrery: Beaten by Shimmer Myr, for budget purposes. Unfortunately, another $4 card is too hard to squeeze in, regardless of how good flash is for all my stuff. Ward of Bones: I cast this card once, and then passed the turn. By the time I untapped, everyone else was already complaining about the card, and at least half of the table had played something they shouldn't have played because they didn't fully understand it. Worn Powerstone: Beaten by other mana rocks, for budget purposes. Everflowing Chalice is a little more expensive, but much more powerful.
Arcum Dagsson: Beaten by Kuldotha Forgemaster, who is cheaper and an artifact. Butcher of Malakir: Not enough sacrifice effects for this to work, and I have foils in two other decks. Dimir House Guard: Not enough important four-drops to justify this as a tutor, and the body doesn't cut it. Fountain Watch: Beaten by Leonin Abunas, both in price and in functionality. Hanna, Ship's Navigator: Beaten by Sharuum. I have no enchantments, and Sharuum would be much worse if it had summoning sickness like she does. Indomitable Archangel: Beaten by Leonin Abunas. Also, not an artifact itself. Rune-Scarred Demon: I have enough tutors already. He's better off in a deck that needs creatures, not artifacts. Sphinx of Uthuun: Beaten by cheaper draw/discard spells like Thirst for Knowledge, Syphon Mind. Once again, the body is unfortunately not important, so it's just a slower, sorcery-speed FoF. Stonecloaker: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb, Bojuka Bog. Sun Titan: Another card that has me praying hard for rotation so that the price drops low enough for me to be able to afford it. Probably one of my top five favorite cards in this format. Thada Adel, Acquisitor: Eh, I have enough artifacts on my own, I think. If more people start playing better artifacts, I might try it. Vedalken Engineer: If only this were an artifact... Waterfront Bouncer: Beaten by Crystal Shard. Another neat little trick for dumping cards into the yard and re-buying Sharuum. Withered Wretch: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb, Bojuka Bog. If I ever need more grave-haters, this will be first on the list.
Academy Ruins: Cut for budgetary reasons only. Arcane Sanctum: Cut for budgetary reasons. I can't even imagine how many of these I used to leave behind in drafts.
*Buried Ruin: Probably should try this out. Dromar's Cavern: My mana is pretty well fixed already, and this just sets me back a turn. Mistveil Plains: I don't have too many white permanents, and I don't really need the effect. New Benalia: I have enough stuff that comes into play tapped already. Reliquary Tower: Cut for budgetary reasons. Another card we used to practically throw away during drafts. Tainted Field: Cut for budgetary reasons. Tainted Isle: Cut for budgetary reasons. Temple of the False God: This should probably come in...I have the cap space.
This is a list of all the fun and exciting cards that I would play in this list if I wasn't restricting myself to a budget of $50 (most of which I do actually own): Gilded Lotus: $4. Even a reprint in a core-set can't make this cheap enough for this list. Grim Monolith: $25. It's a little absurd how expensive this card is. Nevinyrral's Disk: $6, O-Stone is cheaper, and D-Forge is also too expensive. Phyrexian Metamorph: $6. Unfortunately, I don't think that the post-Standard rotation price will drop low enough for me. Solemn Simulacrum: $4. Even with two reprints (core set and box set), it's still too rich for my blood. Sun Titan: $3-4. Might be redundant, but it's a pet card. Thran Dynamo: $3, still more than all my other mana-rocks combined.
Academy Ruins: $6. I've never understood why rares from this set are so expensive. Arcane Sanctum: $1. Really? We used to throw these away after triple-Shards drafting. Celestial Colonnade: $2. The average cost of my non-basic lands is about $0.25. Creeping Tar Pit: $3, not that I really need help fixing mana. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth $15-20.
...plus all the usual fetch-lands, shock-lands, and original duals.
Notes on pricing out the list:
- Basic lands don't count (anyone who has played this game long enough to know what EDH is should know how to get free basic lands).
- When evaluating prices, I try to use only one store/website at a time (currently using Troll & Toad, but it doesn't really matter which one).
- Only near mint/mint, non-foil prices should be considered, except in the case of products that only come in foil versions (like the Premium Sliver deck).
- Non-basics, all spells, and the general do count.
- All prices have been rounded to the nearest 5 cents.
- I try to use the lowest-priced single whenever possible. For example, a Duplicant from Mirrodin costs about $3, whereas an Archemeny version costs $2.
The current total for this deck is $48.80 on ChannelFireball, $66.70 on StarCity, and $57.40 on Troll & Toad.
I'm looking for some ideas on how to shave a few bucks off this list without sacrificing the competitive edge. Obviously, I won't be doing anything ridiculous like Time Stretch-ing over and over again, but there are a couple decent combos in this list, such as Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek, and Sharuum/Sculpting Steel. The rule of thumb for me and combos is this: if the cards are good enough to run all by themselves, and they happen to go infinite if the stars are aligned, so be it. So, Time Sieve is out, but Thopter Assembly might come back in at some point. Thopter Foundry is excellent with or without Sword of the Meek, and even together they don't go infinite (unless I already have infinite mana).
If this idea catches on, I'm hoping to organize a "salary cap" league of EDH, where players will have to "weigh in" the price of their deck at the start of the league, and only decks that can get under the cap will be allowed to play.
So, while this thread is mainly to organize my own thoughts, any thoughts on how to improve this deck or lower the cost would be greatly appreciated!
For reference I'm in OC Punisher's playgroup, I'm working on a few lists too for this category and will probably post something at some point.
The only few suggestions I would offer is cutting the artifact lands for basics. I'm not sure if they're really needed unless there's a combo for them. They also can be targeted with artifact hate, meaning it could set you back detrimentally. Salvaging station would help with this a little, but if there's no special purpose for running them that pretty much saves you the $4.00 right there. At the very least, you could cut the blue one.
It's really a shame that Duplicant is so good in this deck, as cutting him would save $3.00.
Its funny in my area we also do a $50 edh tournament. We run leagues on Mondays and usually get 12-14 and decided to start doing these once a monthish to get more people into it.
Some rules we use....$10 cap on any card.
all commons are .20
Basic lands are free
We use the lowest nm value on starcity for our pricing.
Additional banning of Dream halls because apperently it breaks this format...meh
I am playing uril for my budget deck who is a beating btw. I will look more closely at your list and edit with ideas.
If you are going to spend $5.00 on a card it needs to be I WIN now kind of card. I dont think that disc or transmuter are worth running. Sometimes you can't "Cheapen" a deck and maintain the same game plan.
With that said i would add
Sculpting steel 2.99
Diciple of the vault .49
March of the machines .49
archbound crusher (maybe) .99
Momentary Blink .20
Mindslaver 1.99
There are probably other things but those are off the top of my head
Yeah, if I put all commons at 20 cents each, that would reduce the value by $5.10. If I put them at 25 cents each, that would still reduce the value by almost $4.
I'd be impressed if you could build a $50 deck with one card at $10 or more.
One card that has saved me many a board wipe is Hurkyl's Recall Cheap way to save most your artifacts from board clearing effects. Situational but fun.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks:
Standard WB Sucky counters UWB Elixir-Transmuter
Mono-W Knight
* Pricing all commons at .20 isn't really fair, since you can't obtain all commons at that price. I think setting a website or two for a standard pricing is a better idea and is what we've been doing so far. We kind of agreed that between Starcity and Troll & Toad we should be able to get almost any card and get a fair price. Also to the guy saying you can get duplicant out of the $1 box, not everyone has access to that and not every dollar box has that, so thus another reason for the standards. I'm sure he's also not in the dollar bin anymore, as he's fairly hard to aquire even online outside of the pre-con he comes in.
* I think cutting Nevinyrral's Disk would be a huge mistake. At least in our "real" competitive EDH games, you need to amass a certain amount of sweepers. I've found that decks with less than 4-5 sweep effects generally lose, unless they make up for it with heavy tutoring. Granted, Sharuum has access to cheaper stuff, like Austere Command and Day of Judgement, so that's another option over disk in this particular case. Phyrexian Rebirth is also dirt cheap as is Martial Coup.
* Starcity's prices, while we all know are a little inflated at times, are actually pretty awful. I made the following Omnath list originally on starcity, then price checked it on troll and toad, and aside from maybe 5-10 cards that were cheaper on starcity, the rest were much cheaper on Troll and Toad. Troll and Toad also has $0.99 shipping, so that is a big bonus. Overall, by checking Troll and Toad I saved $12 on this list and almost brought it within budget-
(1st list, will probably get heavy editing. I also didn't round when calculating) $53.00 (split between Starcity and Troll & Toad)
@mdilthey: Cool, thanks for the props.
- Oblivion Stone would shave about a dollar off the total price...probably worth the trade.
- Inkwell Leviathan is nice if you're looking for a big body, but that's not really the direction I'd like to go with this list.
@Palabalo: Eh, I think I'd rather have a sacrifice outlet like Claws of Gix, cuz I don't mind if things get destroyed as long as I can bring them back with Sharuum.
@pandafarmer: That's a nice idea, but the whole point of this exercise is to create and maintain a list that any individual could acquire for a reasonable price at any time. If I manage to find a $5 card in a $1 bucket, or open a $20 card in a draft, or trade for an expensive card, that won't help the next person who tries to make a similar list. This list needs to be attainable by anyone who wants to try it.
I think you were missing the point of the rules I posted.
We actually use this as a format for a league. To do that you have to agree on one site that you use. Even if you get it cheaper there has to be a sight used as the "constant". I agree that starcity prices are inflated but that is not the point. We are not actually ordering the cards from them just using them as a price guide so to speak. If your $50 deck costs you $30 on some other sight grats...if it costs you $60 nobody cares as long as its $50 on the agreed upon source.
With that said, the $.20 for each common rule is not unreasonable at all. There are not many commons that you pay much more for. Also any common actually worth more then $10 can still not be played (ex. maze of ith). If someone complains because 5 commons in your deck are worth $.50 instead of $.20 then those poeple need to get better paying jobs lol.
In summation i was just trying to give a set of ground rules to run a league off of. If you wanted to use troll and toad thats fine too as long as everyone doing this uses the same source for thier pricing. This variation is a great way to attract new edh players to your group.
Yeah happyrock I didn't miss your point and I wasn't debating that. I realize that's how your league's setup, and I agree on having a website for a constant price. My only issue is that starcity is expensive and limiting it to one site, while good in some ways, can be bad when they over-inflate certain cards. Starcity's not always the guilty party of this, plenty of sites do it. OC Punisher and I plus the rest of our group has been using Troll and Toad for quite some time now after previously using Starcity a decent amount, and it's better in almost every way (price, shipping, etc). The only problem is they are out of stock of stuff at times, but oh well. That's one of the reasons I like having maybe 2-3 sites as the barometer for it.
I realize too that you were using starcity more as a price guide for your league, I think for us it's both a price guide and an ordering site though as part of the goal of the original project was to show other players what you "could" order if you were getting into EDH.
There's plenty of commons well over the $.20 mark, but as a price barometer for your league I don't have any issues with it. I would say if I'm going to be involved in something like this though and we're already setting stringent rules on prices, probably better just to go by whatever the card costs. I've found some commons for .15, some for .99, etc, just depends obviously on what it is. .20 is a perfectly reasonable average price tho.
@ OC Pun - what about cutting the disk for Austere Command and keeping O-Stone (or dropping o-Stone). Austere Command costs $2.99 on trollandtoad I believe. Not quite the same effect but we all know it's good in EDH.
I'm wondering if Martial Coup tokens would also be of use in this deck at all in some form or fashion.
Also, Maze of Ith is uncommon
* EDIT
I could see cutting either Etherium Astrolabe or a land and adding Dimir House Guard . He's a sac outlet, he's sometimes unblockable, and he transmutes for lots of goodies like Master Transmuter, Arcum, Leonin, Nevinyrral's Disk, Sanctum Gargoyle, etc.
The addition of Oblivion Stone seems to completely negate any of the savings that the rest of your recent cuts gave you. Maybe add Spine of Ish Sah instead?
Cruel Ultimatum is pretty bad in this format because of the higher life totals and multiple opponents. I would take that off the list.
As you'll all see, my decks are themed, budgeted, and are still very fun to play and challenge my opponents. You are more than welcome to gleen any ideas from from my deck lists. I use TCGPlayer to determine the 'low' end of my deck's value...since I rarely have bought cards higher than the low end.
@OCPunisher
If you're looking to shave some $$ off your deck build, I would cut the Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo. I've never really been impressed with it...and those cards are dead weight if they're not together.
Really check out the combo's section in my Sharuum list. I've got some pretty sweet (And cheap....budget-wise) combo shenanigans, surrounding Triskelion and Pentavus.
@Polizei
I'd go for hacking your big expenses first: Living Death and (as I wince) Oblivion Stone. That easily gives you some breathing room to modify some of your cards for slightly better variants. It would also be really nice to somehow squeeze Lilliana Ves, but I think that's wishful thinking if you want to stay below $50.
Enjoy your games.....
Post how they turn out...I'd love to encourage this type of deckbuilding further somehow.
@GFirefly: I could definitely see cutting the Sword, as it would probably be a dead card without its combo partner, but the Thopter Foundry is an excellent card all by itself, or with any other artifacts that might otherwise be killed.
Your Sharuum list also has a few "big expenses" that probably don't need to be there, like Path, Swords and the Triplets. But, I like what you're doing with all the Thopters and the Pentavus-type cards.
Updated and ordered my list for Sedris, and just saw this page 2 of comments that I missed before. Got to play a few games with OC Punisher today with a friend using his Sharuum list, it went completely bonkers on us and was definitely competitive (against decks that were not on a budget).
Couple thoughts on Sedris-
1) I think Oblivion Stone, Living Death, Buried Alive, and Decree of Pain are all extremely integral to this deck and needed to survive a big game. OC Punisher and I spoke about this more in person, but I think that you need to have at least 3-4 wrath effects if not 5, and you need to have at least one that isn't a destroy effect (Living Death, Evacuation) to get out of tricky spots. When I was first rebuilding EDH decks a few months ago, one thing I noticed that seperated a "bad" budget deck from a "decent" budget deck was the amount of mass removal. People will play extremely hard to kill creatures in EDH or some of the "tuned" decks will get rolling fast, and you're usually going to need a reset button. Evacuation isn't great in my deck because a lot of my creatures are huge and I'd rather have them in the yard than in the hand. People have wavering opinions on Buried Alive, but myself and a few others at the shop swear by it and it's incredibly powerful with Sedris. To me it's worth the $2.99 and one of the best cards in the deck.
2.) Firefly, glad to see another supporter of this budget idea. I think it's a good way to show new players that they can get into EDH and also that you don't need to go crazy right away with your EDH builds, you can gradually get them going overtime or do a league like this which rewards talented deck builders.
3.) I think that the thopter / sword combo is perfectly fine in that Sharuum deck. You have 6-7 tutors and 9-10 draw effects, you'll probably be able to piece together the combo, and even if not sword still gives a buff to all the little tokens this deck creates until you can get the thopter foundry out. Once the combo's in action, it's back-breaking so I'm not sure Firefly I understand what you mean about it being so-so?
4.) Liliana Vess would be awesome, and I did want to fit it in but at $5 it really bites into the budget. I made up for it in the new list by adding in a lot of transmute, dredge, and other card draw / tutor to make sure I can get what I need.
5.) Your lists don't seem to be even close to accurately priced. I took a glance at that last one, Sisters of Stone Death at $26, and I noticed immediately a Maelstrom Pulse among the rest of the cards. There's no way that list is even close to $26, so I'm not sure where the fuzzy math is coming into play. You did have some interesting card choices though, and I've seen Sharuum do some of the pentavus stuff before which I too think is an intriguing direction.
6.) OC Pun, took your advice on Halimar Depths, I forgot about that goodie. Don't think I want Rupture Spire and Grixis Panorama, I'm actually already not happy with the amount of "slow lands" in the list and those particular ones are always very mana intensive, but I think playtesting will iron this stuff out.
I'd love to hear and see more on this thread, whether it be just about sharuum or budget decks in general. It's a fun idea.
Never seen a budget Sharuum deck ever. It depends on your version of budget. I say my build because I didn't buy most the cards. Had them laying around luckily.
5.) Your lists don't seem to be even close to accurately priced. I took a glance at that last one, Sisters of Stone Death at $26, and I noticed immediately a Maelstrom Pulse among the rest of the cards. There's no way that list is even close to $26, so I'm not sure where the fuzzy math is coming into play. You did have some interesting card choices though, and I've seen Sharuum do some of the pentavus stuff before which I too think is an intriguing direction.
As mentioned, I didn't do a card by card pricing on my decks. I went to TCGPlayer.com, plugged in my decklist, and checkout the value at it's low end.
For my Sisters deck, it was $26 at the low end, $48 average, and $90 on the high side. Prices fluctuate daily on the site. Specifically looking at Maelstrom Pulse it's a $8 on the low side, $14 on the high side.
I will grant you that if my group specifically put a $$ amount to our decklists instead of an approx amount, then Pulse would probably be cut pretty quick.
Nevertheless, I'm glad there are others that appriciate budget deckbuilding and the challenges and enjoyment found within.
Took the list out for a spin the other day, with some mixed results.
- Played a couple of games against Scion of the Ur-Dragon and a mono-green deck, and I was easily the third-best deck in that group. There wasn't too much that I could do to get in the way of all the fatties that were coming my way.
- Another person in our group played this deck against my Azami deck, Sek'Kuar, and Intet. Planechase planes were also involved in this game. The Sharuum deck got a free Mirrorworks on turn two from a random plane trigger, and then he followed that up with a Time Sieve and a copied Master Transmuter. My Azami deck needed to flash in a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and steal a Seedborn Muse just to ensure that Sharuum wouldn't get too out of hand. Other than that, the deck performed quite nicely.
I think you can replace Evacuation with either Austere Command or Phyrexian Rebirth since you can get back any artifact creatures with Sharuum, it shldn't worry you too much getting your creatures destroy.
Muddle the Mixture can counter and most impotantly serve another purpose of being a tutor for your thopter / sword combo
Maybe Compulsive Research for more card draw or Dismantling Blow or Return to Dust if you encounter more problems with artifacts and enchantments. The former got an option to draw cards and the latter exiles them.
I feel Scourglass is too slow. You need to wait until next upkeep to activate it
@BaconoftheArk - if you're going to go budget, Sharuum seems like one of the easier decks so far just because of all the great cards that could go in there that are low in price. Once I have my Sedris deck this week and go to our local EDH gathering, I'll be able to weigh in on that too.
@Firefly - understood, and those decklists are still good ideas to look at for budget building like this
@OC Punisher - I think we're going to need more games before we can determine too much about it. As far as removal goes, you have access to black so there's plenty of options there if an artifact card or two needs to get cut for better answers. You also have white. You could run anything from condemn to snuff out to slaughter to edicts to artifact based removal, etc etc.
@Magic4Life - I think I'd like Austere Command or Phyrexian Rebirth in the list, although not necessarily at the cost of Evacuation. Evacuation is one of those "non-destroy" removal cards that gets rid of pesky creatures that have indestructibility. Martial Coup is probably a good choice here too considering all the things you can do with tokens (even though they're not artifact tokens). There's probably a lot of ideas in general you could do with this deck based on token generation.
I think Muddle the Mixture is a reasonable choice and a good tutor for the combo as you mentioned. Golgari Thug is more my style though, as dredging with this deck isn't the end of the world and he can recur creatures. I'd say Muddle hands down if it countered more types of spells, but it's limitation to instants and sorceries certainly hurts it in our playgroup. That said, the Sharuum deck can generate mana and could probably keep two open to use it as a counter if you didn't feel like transmuting.
Dismantling Blow seems quite good.
Scourglass is really no slower than a Nevinyrral's Disk (unless voltaic key is in play), and it's usually a complete one-sided wrath of god for him. I'd say it's pretty darn good here and not a good candidate to remove.
Even at almost $3, Austere Command is still one of the top five white cards in this format, so I suppose I should probably play it. Phyrexian Rebirth is OK, but it doesn't stop an Ulamog. Evacuation is instant-speed and at least delays the inevitable Eldrazi annihilation. Another option is Hallowed Burial at $1.50.
I'm gonna update the "new cards to try" list later today with some non-artifact choices (I only looked at artifacts so far).
I'm just picking up this thread but it looks like another card you might want to consider would be Final Judgement. It is similar to Hallowed Burial doesn't tuck, but does do removal that is sometimes useful if people are recurring their graveyards too often.
UPDATE: As of 12/01/12, I will no longer be keeping this thread active. Instead (largely due to demand from others), I will be moving this deck concept to a new thread and increasing the "cap number" from $50 to $100. All other rules and regulations will still apply. A link to the new thread is located here. I'll keep this list and all links to it intact, but I probably won't be updating it as much. Thanks to all who provided feedback and/or support on this idea!
This thread is for discussion on a slightly different kind of EDH deck. The goal is to build a complete deck (including all lands) for under $50.
This all started when a friend of mine in another state was talking about introducing some people at his local shop to the EDH format. They were concerned that a Type 1 format like this would require a large cash investment to get all of the good cards (original duals, fetches, really old artifacts, planeswalkers, etc). Someone suggested that he try to build a competitive yet cheap EDH deck. Eventually, the discussion turned to building the cheapest competitive deck for $50 or less.
Based on that discussion, I'm trying to build a competitive Sharuum deck that costs roughly $50 or less. I say "roughly" because prices fluctuate over time and different shops/dealers set different prices for the same card(s). That being said, I'm trying to get this as close to $50 as possible without decreasing the power level below the point of being completely unplayable. I chose Sharuum for a couple reasons: mana rocks are generally pretty cheap, I didn't have any decks in the Esper colors, and it seemed like an easy one to try with all of the recent artifacts from Shards block and Scars block.
Without further ado,
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
Artifact creatures (13):
1 Duplicant
1 Enigma Sphinx
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Faerie Mechanist
1 Grim Poppet
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Moriok Replica
1 Pentavus
1 Pilgrim's Eye
1 Sanctum Gargoyle
1 Sharding Sphinx
1 Shimmer Myr
1 Sphinx Summoner
Creatures (6):
1 Grand Architect
1 Leonin Abunas
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 River Kelpie
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
Mana Artifacts (11):
1 Azorius Signet
1 Blinkmoth Urn
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Mind Stone
1 Obelisk of Esper
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Vessel of Endless Rest
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Courier's Capsule
1 Crystal Shard
1 Dispeller's Capsule
1 Etherium Astrolabe
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Expedition Map
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Mirrorworks
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Salvaging Station
1 Scourglass
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Nin
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Thopter Foundry
1 Trading Post
1 Unwinding Clock
1 Voltaic Key
Non-artifact spells (9):
1 Austere Command
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Evacuation
1 Fabricate
1 Reshape
1 Roar of Reclamation
1 Soulscour
1 Syphon Mind
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancient Den
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Calciform Pools
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Esper Panorama
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Halimar Depths
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Rupture Spire
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Sejiri Refuge
1 Terrain Generator
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Vault of Whispers
Basic lands (20):
7 Plains
8 Island
5 Swamp
2. Sculpting Steel
3. Oblivion Stone
4. Austere Command
5. Sword of the Meek
Copper Gnomes: There aren't many counters in my area, and my mana is good enough that I don't need to cheat something into play.
Ethersworn Adjudicator: Too slow and too expensive. Plus, I sold my foil copy to another Sharuum player.
Filigree Angel: Just a big life-gain spell, not all that exciting.
Junk Diver: Beaten by Sanctum Gargoyle. I'd prefer not to wait until it dies before I get something back.
Lodestone Golem: Griefer, and the body isn't very useful to me.
Magsiter Sphinx: Sharuum already has a bad reputation for douchey combos. This is just a douchey card that doesn't immediately win the game.
Master Transmuter: A sad cut, and one that might make me increase the cap space on this deck, but I could no longer justify the cost.
Myr Retriever: See Junk Diver. Also, how is this newer uncommon worth more than the older rare (Diver) which does the same thing?
Phyrexian Metamorph: Beaten by Sculpting Steel, and by the fact that it's still Standard-legal. Here's hoping this gets cheaper soon, cuz I really want to play it here!
Scarecrone: Too slow, a little too pricey, and the only good Scarecrow is Grim Poppet.
Solemn Simulacrum: Beaten by Pilgrim's Eye. Too pricey, and too playable in Standard. Unfortunately, this guy was too pricey even before he got reprinted and became more awesome.
Steel Hellkite: Seems like a great card...colorless mass removal, big body, target for Treasure Mage. Yet, somehow I can't remember the last time I activated him.
Thopter Assembly: Beaten by Pentavus. Once I cut Time Sieve, there was much purpose for this guy.
Thopter Squadron: Beaten by Pentavus. Sorcery speed and 5 mana (not 6) makes him awful.
Claws of Gix: Beaten by Thopter Foundry. If I get more removal coming my way and need more sac outlets, this will come in.
Cloud Key: Beaten by Etherium Sculptor. Too pricey for what it does.
Coalition Relic: Beaten by Darksteel Ingot, and other cheaper mana rocks. Interaction with Unwinding Clock is not enough to invest in this. Also nearly impossible to find in foil.
Coldsteel Heart: Beaten by Mind Stone. Talismans and Signets come first, then Mind Stone beats this because of the draw power.
Contagion Engine: Not enough things to proliferate.
Crystal Ball: Beaten by Thirst for Knowledge. My draw spells need to actually draw cards, not just look for the best one to draw.
Darksteel Pendant: See Crystal Ball.
Everflowing Chalice: It was the most expensive mana rock I had, and Vessel of Endless Rest solved an additional problem.
Grafted Skullcap: This seems pretty good, as most of my spells are artifacts, so pitching them would not be the worst thing ever. Might need to test this in the near future.
Helm of Possession: Too pricey, and I have enough of my own creatures that I don't need to steal from others.
Lux Cannon: Beaten by Spine of Ish Sah.
Mind's Eye: Too pricey.
Mycosynth Wellspring: See Armillary Sphere.
Myr Turbine: Tiny bodies are fine, but there aren't any good Myrs to tutor for.
Nevinyrral's Disk: Beaten by Oblivion Stone, just for budget reasons.
Norn's Annex: Doesn't seem all that spectacular when everyone gets to start with 40 life.
Null Brooch: Once upon a time, there was a neat interaction between Ensnaring Bridge, Grafted Skullcap, and this card. Sadly, that time has likely passed.
Protomatter Powder: Had a cheap foil, thought it might add some necessary redundancy with Sharuum, didn't work in practice.
Relic of Progenitus: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb and Bojuka Bog. I am a huge fan of recursion, so naturally I hate this card. My grave-haters need to be safe enough to only remove someone else's stuff, and only the stuff I don't want to re-use myself.
Rings of Brighthearth: Couldn't justify the cost for basically a win-more card.
Star Compass: Beaten out by Signets, Talismans, and other mana rocks. This would have been played if Darksteel Ingot and Everflowing Chalice had not come down in price.
Thran Dynamo: Beaten by Everflowing Chalice, just for budget reasons.
Time Sieve: I pulled off the infinite combo with Thopter Assembly once, and it didn't feel good. So, despite spending a couple bucks on foils, I cut both pieces of this combo.
Tormod's Crypt: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb, but just for budget reasons.
Urza's Blueprints: Beaten by Courier's Capsule, for cost purposes.
Vedalken Orrery: Beaten by Shimmer Myr, for budget purposes. Unfortunately, another $4 card is too hard to squeeze in, regardless of how good flash is for all my stuff.
Ward of Bones: I cast this card once, and then passed the turn. By the time I untapped, everyone else was already complaining about the card, and at least half of the table had played something they shouldn't have played because they didn't fully understand it.
Worn Powerstone: Beaten by other mana rocks, for budget purposes. Everflowing Chalice is a little more expensive, but much more powerful.
Butcher of Malakir: Not enough sacrifice effects for this to work, and I have foils in two other decks.
Dimir House Guard: Not enough important four-drops to justify this as a tutor, and the body doesn't cut it.
Fountain Watch: Beaten by Leonin Abunas, both in price and in functionality.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator: Beaten by Sharuum. I have no enchantments, and Sharuum would be much worse if it had summoning sickness like she does.
Indomitable Archangel: Beaten by Leonin Abunas. Also, not an artifact itself.
Rune-Scarred Demon: I have enough tutors already. He's better off in a deck that needs creatures, not artifacts.
Sphinx of Uthuun: Beaten by cheaper draw/discard spells like Thirst for Knowledge, Syphon Mind. Once again, the body is unfortunately not important, so it's just a slower, sorcery-speed FoF.
Stonecloaker: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb, Bojuka Bog.
Sun Titan: Another card that has me praying hard for rotation so that the price drops low enough for me to be able to afford it. Probably one of my top five favorite cards in this format.
Thada Adel, Acquisitor: Eh, I have enough artifacts on my own, I think. If more people start playing better artifacts, I might try it.
Vedalken Engineer: If only this were an artifact...
Waterfront Bouncer: Beaten by Crystal Shard. Another neat little trick for dumping cards into the yard and re-buying Sharuum.
Withered Wretch: Beaten by Nihil Spellbomb, Bojuka Bog. If I ever need more grave-haters, this will be first on the list.
Compulsive Research: Beaten by Thirst for Knowledge, only because Research is a sorcery.
Exclusion Ritual: Beaten by Spine of Ish Sah.
Fact or Fiction: Beaten by Thirst for Knowledge, for budget reasons only. If I had the cap space, I'd play this over Sphinx of Uthuun.
Grave Pact: Not enough creatures or sac outlets to make this effective, and it's already in two other decks.
Hallowed Burial: Beaten by Austere Command. I actually want my stuff to hit the yard, not the bottom of the library.
Hanna's Custody: Beaten by Leonin Abunas, both in price and functionality.
Hinder: This might be a blue deck, but it isn't a permission deck.
Karmic Justice: Another enchantment that unfortunately does not work very well with Sharuum.
Life's Finale: The sad part is that I can't target myself. This fits better in Geth.
Open the Vaults: Beaten by Roar of Reclamation. For 1 more, I don't have to recur someone else's Aura Shards.
Phyrexian Rebirth: Beaten by Austere Command. The fact that it makes an artifact creature does not add any additional synergy.
Planar Cleansing: Beaten by Austere Command. Too many times this would kill more of my stuff than I wanted.
Recurring Insight: If only it was an instant...
Spin Into Myth: Same as Hinder...an excellent card, but it doesn't really go with the theme of the deck.
Thoughtcast: First on the list of draw spells if I ever decide to add one.
Unburial Rites: So far, this seems like the cheapest and most powerful way to recur non-artifact creatures.
Arcane Sanctum: Cut for budgetary reasons. I can't even imagine how many of these I used to leave behind in drafts.
*Buried Ruin: Probably should try this out.
Dromar's Cavern: My mana is pretty well fixed already, and this just sets me back a turn.
Mistveil Plains: I don't have too many white permanents, and I don't really need the effect.
New Benalia: I have enough stuff that comes into play tapped already.
Reliquary Tower: Cut for budgetary reasons. Another card we used to practically throw away during drafts.
Tainted Field: Cut for budgetary reasons.
Tainted Isle: Cut for budgetary reasons.
Temple of the False God: This should probably come in...I have the cap space.
Gilded Lotus: $4. Even a reprint in a core-set can't make this cheap enough for this list.
Grim Monolith: $25. It's a little absurd how expensive this card is.
Nevinyrral's Disk: $6, O-Stone is cheaper, and D-Forge is also too expensive.
Phyrexian Metamorph: $6. Unfortunately, I don't think that the post-Standard rotation price will drop low enough for me.
Solemn Simulacrum: $4. Even with two reprints (core set and box set), it's still too rich for my blood.
Sun Titan: $3-4. Might be redundant, but it's a pet card.
Thran Dynamo: $3, still more than all my other mana-rocks combined.
Academy Ruins: $6. I've never understood why rares from this set are so expensive.
Arcane Sanctum: $1. Really? We used to throw these away after triple-Shards drafting.
Celestial Colonnade: $2. The average cost of my non-basic lands is about $0.25.
Creeping Tar Pit: $3, not that I really need help fixing mana.
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth $15-20.
...plus all the usual fetch-lands, shock-lands, and original duals.
- Added Austere Command, Oblivion Stone.
- Cut Island, Nevinyrral's Disk.
05/12/11:
- Added Withered Wretch, Obelisk of Esper.
- Cut Tormod's Crypt, Darksteel Ingot.
05/13/11:
- Added Kudotha Forgemaster.
- Cut Arcum Dagsson.
05/27/11:
- Added Roar of Reclamation, Terrain Generator, Mistmeadow Witch, River Kelpie.
- Cut Open the Vaults (I have no enchantments, so Roar is far less risky), Swamp, Stonecloaker, Worn Powerstone.
05/30/11:
- Added Calciform Pools, Dreadship Reef.
- Cut Plains, Swamp.
06/09/11:
- Added Soulscour.
- Cut Planar Cleansing.
06/10/11:
- Added Krark-Clan Ironworks.
- Cut Hinder.
06/24/11:
- Added Sculpting Steel, Ichor Wellspring, Syphon Mind, and Island.
- Removed Darksteel Pendant, Crystal Ball, Scarecrone, and Dromar's Cavern.
06/27/11:
- Added more foils, including Master Transmuter.
06/29/11:
- Added a section for all of the cards I don't play due to their cost.
07/20/11:
- I'm up to 70 foils after receiving my Evacuation and Sword of the Meek.
07/28/11:
- Foil #71: FNM Thirst for Knowledge.
- Managed to stumble across a foil Sculpting Steel for only $15. Cha-CHING!
07/29/11:
- Added Darksteel Ingot, Everflowing Chalice, Moriok Replica, Unwinding Clock, Pentavus, Enigma Sphinx, Grand Architect.
- Removed Armillary Sphere, Magister Sphinx, Withered Wretch, Time Sieve, Steel Hellkite, Spin into Myth, Thopter Assembly.
08/05/11:
- Started a list of "cards I don't play and why I don't play them".
08/08/11:
- Added six more foils to the list, bringing the total to 76.
09/21/11:
- Added some more foils, including a Sculpting Steel (finally!), bringing the total up to 82.
09/25/11:
- Found a very cheap foil Expedition Map online and three more foils...up to 86.
10/03/11:
- Found a foil Oblivion Stone for under $20 on eBay. Up to 87 foils.
10/17/11:
- Picked up a foil Crystal Shard at States. 88 foils.
10/24/11:
- 3 out of 7 Plains are now foil, as is Enigma Sphinx. 92 foils.
02/17/12:
- Finally pulled the trigger on a foil Duplicant for $28, which means the last foil in the deck is now in my possession! Pictures to follow on the pimp thread.
- Added Ancient Den, Seat of the Synod, Vault of Whispers.
- Removed the three Vivid lands.
10/05/12:
- Added Trading Post, Staff of Nin, Blinkmoth Urn, Vessel of Endless Rest.
- Removed Master Transmuter, Rings of Brighthearth, Filigree Angel, Everflowing Chalice.
- Basic lands don't count (anyone who has played this game long enough to know what EDH is should know how to get free basic lands).
- When evaluating prices, I try to use only one store/website at a time (currently using Troll & Toad, but it doesn't really matter which one).
- Only near mint/mint, non-foil prices should be considered, except in the case of products that only come in foil versions (like the Premium Sliver deck).
- Non-basics, all spells, and the general do count.
- All prices have been rounded to the nearest 5 cents.
- I try to use the lowest-priced single whenever possible. For example, a Duplicant from Mirrodin costs about $3, whereas an Archemeny version costs $2.
The current total for this deck is $48.80 on ChannelFireball, $66.70 on StarCity, and $57.40 on Troll & Toad.
I'm looking for some ideas on how to shave a few bucks off this list without sacrificing the competitive edge. Obviously, I won't be doing anything ridiculous like Time Stretch-ing over and over again, but there are a couple decent combos in this list, such as Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek, and Sharuum/Sculpting Steel. The rule of thumb for me and combos is this: if the cards are good enough to run all by themselves, and they happen to go infinite if the stars are aligned, so be it. So, Time Sieve is out, but Thopter Assembly might come back in at some point. Thopter Foundry is excellent with or without Sword of the Meek, and even together they don't go infinite (unless I already have infinite mana).
If this idea catches on, I'm hoping to organize a "salary cap" league of EDH, where players will have to "weigh in" the price of their deck at the start of the league, and only decks that can get under the cap will be allowed to play.
So, while this thread is mainly to organize my own thoughts, any thoughts on how to improve this deck or lower the cost would be greatly appreciated!
The only few suggestions I would offer is cutting the artifact lands for basics. I'm not sure if they're really needed unless there's a combo for them. They also can be targeted with artifact hate, meaning it could set you back detrimentally. Salvaging station would help with this a little, but if there's no special purpose for running them that pretty much saves you the $4.00 right there. At the very least, you could cut the blue one.
It's really a shame that Duplicant is so good in this deck, as cutting him would save $3.00.
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
Some rules we use....$10 cap on any card.
all commons are .20
Basic lands are free
We use the lowest nm value on starcity for our pricing.
Additional banning of Dream halls because apperently it breaks this format...meh
I am playing uril for my budget deck who is a beating btw. I will look more closely at your list and edit with ideas.
If you are going to spend $5.00 on a card it needs to be I WIN now kind of card. I dont think that disc or transmuter are worth running. Sometimes you can't "Cheapen" a deck and maintain the same game plan.
With that said i would add
Sculpting steel 2.99
Diciple of the vault .49
March of the machines .49
archbound crusher (maybe) .99
Momentary Blink .20
Mindslaver 1.99
There are probably other things but those are off the top of my head
I'd be impressed if you could build a $50 deck with one card at $10 or more.
Inkwell Leviathan is also pretty cheap, and with Transmuter, he's the man!
Love the list, when I get ready for my second EDH deck I'm using this as a map!
Standard
WB Sucky counters
UWB Elixir-Transmuter
Mono-W Knight
* Pricing all commons at .20 isn't really fair, since you can't obtain all commons at that price. I think setting a website or two for a standard pricing is a better idea and is what we've been doing so far. We kind of agreed that between Starcity and Troll & Toad we should be able to get almost any card and get a fair price. Also to the guy saying you can get duplicant out of the $1 box, not everyone has access to that and not every dollar box has that, so thus another reason for the standards. I'm sure he's also not in the dollar bin anymore, as he's fairly hard to aquire even online outside of the pre-con he comes in.
* I think cutting Nevinyrral's Disk would be a huge mistake. At least in our "real" competitive EDH games, you need to amass a certain amount of sweepers. I've found that decks with less than 4-5 sweep effects generally lose, unless they make up for it with heavy tutoring. Granted, Sharuum has access to cheaper stuff, like Austere Command and Day of Judgement, so that's another option over disk in this particular case. Phyrexian Rebirth is also dirt cheap as is Martial Coup.
* Starcity's prices, while we all know are a little inflated at times, are actually pretty awful. I made the following Omnath list originally on starcity, then price checked it on troll and toad, and aside from maybe 5-10 cards that were cheaper on starcity, the rest were much cheaper on Troll and Toad. Troll and Toad also has $0.99 shipping, so that is a big bonus. Overall, by checking Troll and Toad I saved $12 on this list and almost brought it within budget-
(1st list, will probably get heavy editing. I also didn't round when calculating)
$53.00 (split between Starcity and Troll & Toad)
1 Omnath, Locus of Mana ($2.75)
Artifacts and Enchantments (17)
1 Oblivion Stone ($3.75)
1 Nevinyrral’s Disk ($4.67)
1 Spine of Ish Sah ($0.49)
1 Desert Twister ($0.39)
1 Mana Reflection ($1.75)
1 Mind Stone ($0.59)
1 Darksteel Pendant ($0.15)
1 Crystal Ball ($.20)
1 Rancor ($1.75)
1 Bear Umbra ($0.89)
1 Whispersilk Cloak ($0.37)
1 Candles of Leng ($0.49)
1 Urza’s Blueprints ($0.44)
1 Gaea’s Touch ($0.37)
1 Darksteel Plate ($0.99)
1 Primal Rage ($0.89)
1 Night Soil ($0.25)
Creatures (30)
1 Mold Shambler ($0.15)
1 Acidic Slime ($0.25)
1 Seedborn Muse ($2.75)
1 Terastodon ($0.89)
1 Sundering Titan ($1.99)
1 Duplicant ($2.75)
1 Wood Elves ($0.15)
1 Farhaven Elf ($0.25)
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder ($0.26)
1 Wolfbriar Elemental ($0.79)
1 Pelakka Wurm ($0.25)
1 Fierce Empath ($0.25)
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth ($0.49)
1 Engulfing Slagwurm ($0.35)
1 Cloudthresher ($0.74)
1 Yavimaya Elder ($0.37)
1 Ant Queen ($0.49)
1 Artisan of Kozilek ($0.25)
1 Steel Hellkite ($0.89)
1 Shinen of Life’s Roar ($0.15)
1 Devoted Druid ($0.25)
1 Primordial Sage ($0.49)
1 Borderland Ranger ($0.15)
1 Civic Wayfinder ($0.15)
1 Sylvan Ranger ($0.25)
1 Viridian Corrupter ($0.25)
1 Baru, Fist of Krosa ($0.79)
1 Chameleon Colossus ($2.99)
1 Indrik Stomphowler ($0.25)
1 Oracle of Mul Daya ($2.75)
1 Reclaim ($0.19)
1 Momentous Fall ($0.79)
1 Kodama’s Reach ($0.49)
1 Cultivate ($0.25)
1 Skyshroud Claim ($0.39)
1 Primal Command ($2.75)
1 Relic Crush ($0.15)
1 Gleeful Sabotage ($0.15)
1 Gelatinous Genesis ($0.35)
1 Overwhelming Stampede ($0.89)
1 Overrun ($0.39)
1 Explosive Vegetation ($0.49)
1 Howl of the Night Pack ($0.25)
1 Harrow ($0.19)
Lands (38)
1 Mystifying Maze ($0.99)
1 Terramorphic Expanse ($0.25)
1 Evolving Wilds ($0.49)
1 Mosswort Bridge ($1.49)
34 Forest
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
- Oblivion Stone would shave about a dollar off the total price...probably worth the trade.
- Inkwell Leviathan is nice if you're looking for a big body, but that's not really the direction I'd like to go with this list.
@Palabalo: Eh, I think I'd rather have a sacrifice outlet like Claws of Gix, cuz I don't mind if things get destroyed as long as I can bring them back with Sharuum.
@pandafarmer: That's a nice idea, but the whole point of this exercise is to create and maintain a list that any individual could acquire for a reasonable price at any time. If I manage to find a $5 card in a $1 bucket, or open a $20 card in a draft, or trade for an expensive card, that won't help the next person who tries to make a similar list. This list needs to be attainable by anyone who wants to try it.
We actually use this as a format for a league. To do that you have to agree on one site that you use. Even if you get it cheaper there has to be a sight used as the "constant". I agree that starcity prices are inflated but that is not the point. We are not actually ordering the cards from them just using them as a price guide so to speak. If your $50 deck costs you $30 on some other sight grats...if it costs you $60 nobody cares as long as its $50 on the agreed upon source.
With that said, the $.20 for each common rule is not unreasonable at all. There are not many commons that you pay much more for. Also any common actually worth more then $10 can still not be played (ex. maze of ith). If someone complains because 5 commons in your deck are worth $.50 instead of $.20 then those poeple need to get better paying jobs lol.
In summation i was just trying to give a set of ground rules to run a league off of. If you wanted to use troll and toad thats fine too as long as everyone doing this uses the same source for thier pricing. This variation is a great way to attract new edh players to your group.
Anywho, I took out the three Mirrodin artifact lands...they just weren't necessary.
I realize too that you were using starcity more as a price guide for your league, I think for us it's both a price guide and an ordering site though as part of the goal of the original project was to show other players what you "could" order if you were getting into EDH.
There's plenty of commons well over the $.20 mark, but as a price barometer for your league I don't have any issues with it. I would say if I'm going to be involved in something like this though and we're already setting stringent rules on prices, probably better just to go by whatever the card costs. I've found some commons for .15, some for .99, etc, just depends obviously on what it is. .20 is a perfectly reasonable average price tho.
@ OC Pun - what about cutting the disk for Austere Command and keeping O-Stone (or dropping o-Stone). Austere Command costs $2.99 on trollandtoad I believe. Not quite the same effect but we all know it's good in EDH.
I'm wondering if Martial Coup tokens would also be of use in this deck at all in some form or fashion.
Also, Maze of Ith is uncommon
* EDIT
I could see cutting either Etherium Astrolabe or a land and adding Dimir House Guard . He's a sac outlet, he's sometimes unblockable, and he transmutes for lots of goodies like Master Transmuter, Arcum, Leonin, Nevinyrral's Disk, Sanctum Gargoyle, etc.
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
(revised on 5/03/11) $49.97
1 Sedris, the Traitor King ($1.12)
Creatures (30)
1 Blood Tyrant ($0.49)
1 Thraximundar ($1.49)
1 Inkwell Leviathan ($1.49)
1 Garza Zol, Plague Queen ($0.59)
1 Bogardan Hellkite ($1.49)
1 Sundering Titan ($1.87)
1 Spitebellows ($0.19)
1 Malfegor ($1.12)
1 Izzet Chronarch ($0.26)
1 Nevermaker ($0.25)
1 Body Double ($0.59)
1 River Kelpie ($0.37)
1 Corpse Connoisseur ($0.25)
1 Shriekmaw ($0.59)
1 Igneous Pouncer ($0.25)
1 Trinket Mage ($0.25)
1 Graveborn Muse ($0.37)
1 Mulldrifter ($0.26)
1 Fleshbag Marauder ($0.25)
1 Phyrexian Delver ($0.44)
1 Avalanche Riders ($0.44)
1 Stinkweed Imp ($0.19)
1 Ingot Chewer ($0.25)
1 Drift of Phantasms ($0.25)
1 Pilgrim's Eye ($0.25)
1 Mindleech Mass ($0.59)
1 Stormtide leviathan ($0.79)
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths ($0.26)
1 Rotting Rats ($0.25)
1 Man-o'-War ($0.59)
1 Mind Stone ($0.44)
1 Darksteel Ingot ($0.49)
1 Obelisk of Grixis ($0.19)
1 Rakdos Signet ($0.25)
1 Dimir Signet ($0.25)
1 Izzet Signet ($0.25)
1 Talisman of Dominance ($0.19)
1 Talisman of Indulgence ($0.25)
1 Armillary Sphere ($0.19)
1 Crystal Shard ($0.74)
1 Oblivion Stone ($3.19)
1 Nihil Spellbomb ($0.25)
1 Tormod's Crypt ($1.49)
1 Expedition Map ($0.25)
1 Compulsion ($0.19)
1 Mental Discipline ($0.19)
Instants and Sorceries (15)
1 Buried Alive ($2.99)
1 Brainspoil ($0.37)
1 Decree of Pain ($2.99)
1 Living Death ($3.99)
1 Diabolic Tutor ($0.25)
1 Beseech the Queen ($0.79)
1 Perplex ($0.49)
1 Crosis’s Charm ($0.25)
1 Windfall ($0.59)
1 Capsize ($0.37)
1 Beacon of Unrest ($1.49)
1 Probe ($0.19)
1 Catalog ($0.25)
1 Frantic Search ($0.25)
1 Thirst for Knowledge ($0.19)
1 Bajuka Bog ($0.25)
1 Crumbling Necropolis ($1.12)
1 Terramorphic Expanse ($0.19)
1 Bad River ($0.59)
1 Rocky Tar Pit ($0.49)
1 Vivid Marsh ($0.59)
1 Vivid Crag ($0.59)
1 Vivid Creek ($0.74)
1 Tainted Isle ($0.99)
1 Tainted Peak ($0.74)
1 Dimir Aqueduct ($0.37)
1 Izzet Boilerworks ($0.19)
1 Rakdos Carnarium ($0.25)
1 Vault of Whispers ($0.59)
1 Halimar Depths ($0.19)
10 Swamp
8 Island
5 Mountain
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
The addition of Oblivion Stone seems to completely negate any of the savings that the rest of your recent cuts gave you. Maybe add Spine of Ish Sah instead?
Cruel Ultimatum is pretty bad in this format because of the higher life totals and multiple opponents. I would take that off the list.
Buried Alive is rather costly and could probably be replaced with a less risky spell like Thirst for Knowledge, Compulsive Research, or the like.
If you're going to unearth fatties with Sedris, you don't want a Reassmbling Skeleton. You don't run Skullclamp, and the only cards that seem to interact with it are Phyrexian Plaguelord and River Kelpie.
Your mana-base could use a Grixis Panorama, Rupture Spire, some Zendikar Refuges, and a Halimar Depths.
Twilight's Call is cheaper than Living Death, although it doesn't wrath in the process.
Synod Sanctum can potentially bring back your unearth guys.
I have several decks; all around that $50 mark (granted I don't have the prices card by card anymore....but they're ballpark):
Sharuum the Hegemon $52.11 Artifact and Combo
Horde of Notions $41.57 Recursion and Recursion
Tolsimir Wolfblood $57.73 Top Card and Aggro
Darien, King of Kjeldor $45.16 Control and Swarm
Wort, the Raidmother $32.64 Ramp and Burn
Sisters of Stone Death $26.99 Deathtouch and Lure
As you'll all see, my decks are themed, budgeted, and are still very fun to play and challenge my opponents. You are more than welcome to gleen any ideas from from my deck lists. I use TCGPlayer to determine the 'low' end of my deck's value...since I rarely have bought cards higher than the low end.
@OCPunisher
If you're looking to shave some $$ off your deck build, I would cut the Thopter Foundry/Sword of the Meek combo. I've never really been impressed with it...and those cards are dead weight if they're not together.
Really check out the combo's section in my Sharuum list. I've got some pretty sweet (And cheap....budget-wise) combo shenanigans, surrounding Triskelion and Pentavus.
@Polizei
I'd go for hacking your big expenses first: Living Death and (as I wince) Oblivion Stone. That easily gives you some breathing room to modify some of your cards for slightly better variants. It would also be really nice to somehow squeeze Lilliana Ves, but I think that's wishful thinking if you want to stay below $50.
Enjoy your games.....
Post how they turn out...I'd love to encourage this type of deckbuilding further somehow.
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
Your Sharuum list also has a few "big expenses" that probably don't need to be there, like Path, Swords and the Triplets. But, I like what you're doing with all the Thopters and the Pentavus-type cards.
EDIT: Need to get me a Skeleton Shard...
Couple thoughts on Sedris-
1) I think Oblivion Stone, Living Death, Buried Alive, and Decree of Pain are all extremely integral to this deck and needed to survive a big game. OC Punisher and I spoke about this more in person, but I think that you need to have at least 3-4 wrath effects if not 5, and you need to have at least one that isn't a destroy effect (Living Death, Evacuation) to get out of tricky spots. When I was first rebuilding EDH decks a few months ago, one thing I noticed that seperated a "bad" budget deck from a "decent" budget deck was the amount of mass removal. People will play extremely hard to kill creatures in EDH or some of the "tuned" decks will get rolling fast, and you're usually going to need a reset button. Evacuation isn't great in my deck because a lot of my creatures are huge and I'd rather have them in the yard than in the hand. People have wavering opinions on Buried Alive, but myself and a few others at the shop swear by it and it's incredibly powerful with Sedris. To me it's worth the $2.99 and one of the best cards in the deck.
2.) Firefly, glad to see another supporter of this budget idea. I think it's a good way to show new players that they can get into EDH and also that you don't need to go crazy right away with your EDH builds, you can gradually get them going overtime or do a league like this which rewards talented deck builders.
3.) I think that the thopter / sword combo is perfectly fine in that Sharuum deck. You have 6-7 tutors and 9-10 draw effects, you'll probably be able to piece together the combo, and even if not sword still gives a buff to all the little tokens this deck creates until you can get the thopter foundry out. Once the combo's in action, it's back-breaking so I'm not sure Firefly I understand what you mean about it being so-so?
4.) Liliana Vess would be awesome, and I did want to fit it in but at $5 it really bites into the budget. I made up for it in the new list by adding in a lot of transmute, dredge, and other card draw / tutor to make sure I can get what I need.
5.) Your lists don't seem to be even close to accurately priced. I took a glance at that last one, Sisters of Stone Death at $26, and I noticed immediately a Maelstrom Pulse among the rest of the cards. There's no way that list is even close to $26, so I'm not sure where the fuzzy math is coming into play. You did have some interesting card choices though, and I've seen Sharuum do some of the pentavus stuff before which I too think is an intriguing direction.
6.) OC Pun, took your advice on Halimar Depths, I forgot about that goodie. Don't think I want Rupture Spire and Grixis Panorama, I'm actually already not happy with the amount of "slow lands" in the list and those particular ones are always very mana intensive, but I think playtesting will iron this stuff out.
I'd love to hear and see more on this thread, whether it be just about sharuum or budget decks in general. It's a fun idea.
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
As mentioned, I didn't do a card by card pricing on my decks. I went to TCGPlayer.com, plugged in my decklist, and checkout the value at it's low end.
For my Sisters deck, it was $26 at the low end, $48 average, and $90 on the high side. Prices fluctuate daily on the site. Specifically looking at Maelstrom Pulse it's a $8 on the low side, $14 on the high side.
I will grant you that if my group specifically put a $$ amount to our decklists instead of an approx amount, then Pulse would probably be cut pretty quick.
Nevertheless, I'm glad there are others that appriciate budget deckbuilding and the challenges and enjoyment found within.
Cheers
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
- Played a couple of games against Scion of the Ur-Dragon and a mono-green deck, and I was easily the third-best deck in that group. There wasn't too much that I could do to get in the way of all the fatties that were coming my way.
- Another person in our group played this deck against my Azami deck, Sek'Kuar, and Intet. Planechase planes were also involved in this game. The Sharuum deck got a free Mirrorworks on turn two from a random plane trigger, and then he followed that up with a Time Sieve and a copied Master Transmuter. My Azami deck needed to flash in a Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and steal a Seedborn Muse just to ensure that Sharuum wouldn't get too out of hand. Other than that, the deck performed quite nicely.
This deck is still a little weak in the removal department. Some of my removal spells that I have right now are pretty situational (Executioner's Capsule, Dispeller's Capsule, Scourglass). Ward of Bones and Contagion Engine probably need to come in next.
Still have yet to see any signs of Scarecrone or Thopter Foundry.
Muddle the Mixture can counter and most impotantly serve another purpose of being a tutor for your thopter / sword combo
Maybe Compulsive Research for more card draw or Dismantling Blow or Return to Dust if you encounter more problems with artifacts and enchantments. The former got an option to draw cards and the latter exiles them.
I feel Scourglass is too slow. You need to wait until next upkeep to activate it
____________________
EDH DECKS:
Sharuum 1 v 1:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=302525
Sakashima the Imposter multiplayer:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=307833
Legacy Deck:
Punishing Jund
@Firefly - understood, and those decklists are still good ideas to look at for budget building like this
@OC Punisher - I think we're going to need more games before we can determine too much about it. As far as removal goes, you have access to black so there's plenty of options there if an artifact card or two needs to get cut for better answers. You also have white. You could run anything from condemn to snuff out to slaughter to edicts to artifact based removal, etc etc.
@Magic4Life - I think I'd like Austere Command or Phyrexian Rebirth in the list, although not necessarily at the cost of Evacuation. Evacuation is one of those "non-destroy" removal cards that gets rid of pesky creatures that have indestructibility. Martial Coup is probably a good choice here too considering all the things you can do with tokens (even though they're not artifact tokens). There's probably a lot of ideas in general you could do with this deck based on token generation.
I think Muddle the Mixture is a reasonable choice and a good tutor for the combo as you mentioned. Golgari Thug is more my style though, as dredging with this deck isn't the end of the world and he can recur creatures. I'd say Muddle hands down if it countered more types of spells, but it's limitation to instants and sorceries certainly hurts it in our playgroup. That said, the Sharuum deck can generate mana and could probably keep two open to use it as a counter if you didn't feel like transmuting.
Dismantling Blow seems quite good.
Scourglass is really no slower than a Nevinyrral's Disk (unless voltaic key is in play), and it's usually a complete one-sided wrath of god for him. I'd say it's pretty darn good here and not a good candidate to remove.
RWU
Zedruu, the Greathearted
RGW Uril, the Miststalker
I'm gonna update the "new cards to try" list later today with some non-artifact choices (I only looked at artifacts so far).
Also I noticed you were running Tormod's Crypt over Relic of Progenitus a much less expenisve card. Any reason?
Level 1 Judge