A repeatable Time Warp seems like it would be pretty useful. If they choose to counter it you're still ahead especially in the early game.
Wound Reflection is another card that is good by itself and begs to be dealt with right away. With Crypt Rats you wouldn't even have to hit with Consume Spirit first, just hit every one for the half of the highest life total. You're already running Sorin Markov too which will take out a player on their own.
Combine the two with X-D engine and you have infinite turns unless a player wants to take themselves out of the game as well.
Specifically: Exsanguinate Self explanatory. Necrotic Ooze Combos with X-D, Crypt Rats, Chainer, Drana, and Kagemaro. Especially good if X-D gets stuck in the graveyard without anyway out. Not too mention what your opponents may have. Mimic Vat X-D every turn for 3 mana. Also works with Fleshbag, Kagemaro, Myojin. Nim Deathmantle Bring X-D back or any of your other saccable creatures for 4 mana and they're boosted. Repeatable multiple times a turn.
I apologize for not updating this thread consistently. I've been absorbed with writing the primer for my Teysa 1v1 list and didn't even see people posting in here.
It pains me to say that because of work and school I barely have that much time to play multiplayer EDH anymore. I'm highly considering scrapping this deck and building Skithiryx for 1v1 instead - but I will always keep updating this list as new sets come out. For now, I will keep playing X-D though
Well thats awesome to hear. Just so you know, I am planning on stealing a few idea and combo from your deck:P. Working on a Maga, so thats why.
Deception, distraction, and diplomacy are powerful tools, that when wielded right, yield victory.
No problem dude! If I wanted to keep tech, I would not have posted it on here. I value feedback and other players' ideas to help develop my list; I think it's silly for people to withhold lists that could potentially evolve through discussion and collective experiences.
A repeatable Time Warp seems like it would be pretty useful. If they choose to counter it you're still ahead especially in the early game.
Wound Reflection is another card that is good by itself and begs to be dealt with right away. With Crypt Rats you wouldn't even have to hit with Consume Spirit first, just hit every one for the half of the highest life total. You're already running Sorin Markov too which will take out a player on their own.
Combine the two with X-D engine and you have infinite turns unless a player wants to take themselves out of the game as well.
I have considered Temporal Extortion, but I never tried it. There's nothing wrong with the card, and it's actually really good in multiplayer. I haven't added it because I didn't feel it was very necessary, though mileage with those kinds of cards will always vary.
The reason why I don't run Wound Reflection is because it does so little on its own. Sure it's great with Crypt Rats, but I don't need cards that don't perform anything outside of one or two interactions. It might work for you, but I personally loathe these kinds of cards. I like to play things cards that have immediate impact.
Did you see "Exsanguinate" from the upcoming edition?
My head exploded as I saw it
You might enjoy it too
Best Regards!
Yes I did!
It is indeed a gem that was designed for EDH
As of now, Exsanguinate will most likely replace either Crypt Rats or Consume Spirit (probably the former).
I just think it's kinda funny cause this card sorta just invalidates both of our comments from above. This is a "one card to rule them all" type situation. After you have your lock and your mana, just tutor for this and win. No need to get cute with Crypt Rats (though Crypt Rats is still decent by itself).
Specifically: Exsanguinate Self explanatory. Necrotic Ooze Combos with X-D, Crypt Rats, Chainer, Drana, and Kagemaro. Especially good if X-D gets stuck in the graveyard without anyway out. Not too mention what your opponents may have. Mimic Vat X-D every turn for 3 mana. Also works with Fleshbag, Kagemaro, Myojin. Nim Deathmantle Bring X-D back or any of your other saccable creatures for 4 mana and they're boosted. Repeatable multiple times a turn.
Intriguing finds. When I was going through the spoiler, I didn't even keep Xiahou Dun in mind. However, these are all fairly good and might see play in here. Going through each card...
Necrotic Ooze: I don't like this card so much in here. Yes he can get Xiahou Dun back, but that's what our other spells are for. Although he can get Xiahou Dun back, he's basically a one-shot at that point. I'd say no to this guy for now.
Mimic Vat: This card won't make it in here because it only happens once a turn. This is exactly why Dawn of the Dead didn't make it in here. Sure it's good, but we need repeatable effects, like Corpse Dance to allow us to actually combo off.
Nim Deathmantle: This is the card that's closest to making the cut, but I'll tell you why we should be wary. There is a very key clause on this card that makes it a lot worse than it looks: "Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay (4)". The reason why Phyrexian Reclamation kept its spot is because you could bring back Fleshbag Marauder on turn 4 and cast him again if necessary. Nim Deathmantle basically makes it so that you must have the mana available right away for the effect to take place, otherwise your creature will just go to the graveyard and that'll be the end of that. So in a sense, it can't even save Xiahou Dun or bring him back from the dead - it's only good when you're already comboing off. That said, the reason I DO consider this card is because it is the same casting cost as Corpse Dance (w/ Jet Medallion) while you're comboing off. It's also less prone to being countered at your first use, which is usually why you have to be so wary about using Corpse Dance early in the game. Is it worth the slot? I think it just barely falls short. Our three infinite X-D generators (Phyrexian Reclamation, Corpse Dance, and Chainer, Dementia Master) are all much more flexible in here. It makes me sad cause I really like the art on it >.<
Thank you for the solid suggestions though - I wouldn't blame anyone else for putting any of the cards you mentioned above into their MBC lists. They're very good - but I'm a spike at heart and aim to streamline my deck with consistency.
ever consider necropotence? seems like it would give yousome serious card advantage. I run it with reliquary tower and venser's journal, totally broken!
I noticed some contamination discussion earlier, however the combo discussed involved 4 pieces, some which weren't good on their own. In my ghost council deck, I run lots of recursion. Typically, however, the contamination lock revolves around either reassembling skeleton (IMHO is better than bloodghast) or bitterblossom. While reassembling isn't too strong on his own, combining him with skullclamp gives you a strong draw engine. Even if you aren't convinced on him, bitterblossom alone is a strong card. Gives you flying blockers that can also apply pressure. Another gem I have found in my playing is Hatred. Strong enough in this format in 1v1, it is ridiculous in multiplayer. Godo taking a quick shot at a problem player? Hatred solves it! Managed to get an infect creature, but positive he is only going to be swinging once? Hatred will help you out! Opponent about to overrun you FTW, but you have one last swing left? Hatred saves the day!
I find that I have the most trouble against blue players, and so I had to adjust accordingly. Have you ever tried running Boseju, who shelters all? having an uncounterable mind twist is downright nasty!
Maybe I'm crazy, but have you considered Curse of the Cabal? The card has been nothing but excellent for me, allowing for mass destruction upon resolution, and an early game braids effect should I draw / wish to suspend it. Thoughts?
Also, you might want to consider Basalt Monolith as a secondary infinite mana generator with rings. It doubles as a quick fix early game, and has proven to be useful late game as well should I need more mana to push for the final group of tutors to win.
I played this list today at my EDH group, with a few changes.
-1 Chainer's Edict
-1 Mind Shatter
-1 Anvil of Bogarden
-1 Chains of Meph
-1 Innocent Blood
I've never found the Chainer's Edict to be all that useful in multiplayer, and have had more than enough removal between the multiple wrath-esq spells. The same goes for Innocent Blood. Three x-cost hand discard spells has also been overkill for me. Finally, the combo is nice, but on it's own Anvil helps my opponents too much, and Chains by itself shuts down my own draw.
In these spots, I've put:
+1 Ashes to Ashes
+1 Dread
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Mind Syphon
+1?
Ashes to Ashes gives me the added removal I need, Dread is an amazing deterrent versus creature-heavy opponents, and Pithing needle shuts down a lot of annoyances. Mind Syphon has been a nice bump in the card draw, but could be easily cut. I have one spot open, which I think might go to Karn Liberated if I can't think of anything else.
Finally, although I am still unsure about this change, I cut three swamps to run: Vesuva, Boseiju, and Homeward Path. Being able to get past counters and steal-creature spells is clutch. The Vesuva has always been gold for me in EDH, and I tend to run it in everything.
I'm going to ressurect this thread to talk about two card:
1. Bloodchief Ascension: In multiplayer games, the lifegain has been tremendous. Not to mention the gradual attrition putting the rest of the table into early Exsanguinate range
2. Temporal Extortion: On its own, this cards is marginal. However, being able to recur in with Xiahou Dun makes it exceptional.
I know this deck doesn't see much play (mostly on account of the general being so rare), but I'd love to hear the thoughts of other MBC players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
Mindcrank is great with Ascension...the problem with that two-card combo is that bloodchief takes time to come online. I'm actually considering dropping Ascension for the Demon from the new set that functions as a Phyrexian Arena. Drawing more cards is always hot.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
With the release of the new Judge foil Xiahou Dun, I hope interest in this general will grow...because he's amazing. Below is my latest updated list. I've put the purpose of the card in parentheses:
One change I'm currently contemplating is swapping Petrified Field for Buried Ruin. The deck already has Grim Discovery to get back lands, and it would be nice to be able to recur a disk or o-stone, or perhaps even a mana-ramp artifact.
Do you mean Gauntlet of Power in the decklist above? As I don't get the use of Gauntlet of might.
I might be blind, but was this deck ment mainly for multiplayer? I'm probably playing only multiplayer, so, for example, the Rageinyasha's deck doesn't completely suit my purposes (otherwise I like that a lot as well).
Also, you don't use Ancient Craving and/or Ambition's cost at all. Instead you got two 2 mana spells that draw two cards. Is the lower mana worth the loss of 1 card?
The deck is designed for Multiplayer...and does quite well against the full gamut of competitive decks.
The main reasons for not using the 4cc draw spells is that they just don't fit the curve. Early on, you want the draw. Later on, Necropotence is your best friend. The 2cc spells fit well, and are easy to manage at every point in the game.
Do you have problems with counterspells or having your creatures controlled? X-D lists do not use many creatures on the battlefield though (as far as I understand), so Path probably doesn't belong. Boseiju is only valid if you constantly fight against counterspells of course. Vesuva I would assume to be helpful in many situations. Even having double Cabal Coffers would be cool?
I always liked this deck, glad someone is getting this thread going again.
I question whether Scrying Sheets is better than a Swamp. When and how often do you activate it and how often is that more important than having a Swamp which interacts with you numerous mana doublers?
You might be better off losing some of the creatures for more creature hate. Some of the ones you currently run aren't very important for the deck. For example you could cut Kagemaro for Lethal Vapors and another one for The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale. My vote is to cut Bloodgift Demon for it. If 4 mana draw is too expensive, which I agree it is, then a fragile 5 mana spell that may net you card advantage doesn't seem like a very good choice.
Another card I think would be great in this deck is Bubbling Muck. It's always been great for me in monoblack and it helps fuel explosive game winning turns. To make room I think it's safe to lose Nevinyrral's Disk. The deck is already has some redundancy to get rid of enchantments/artifacts and it's filled with tutors so the Disk simply isn't needed.
A tutor that you're missing is Insidious Dreams. As long as you don't walk this into a counterspell it's very strong here as you're able to set up combos and you still have access to the cards you pitch. With enough mana and a few cards in hand it will just win the game for you.
The only other card I thought of was Ill-Gotten Gains. I'm not sure if you need that one though, just throwing it out there for some discussion.
You might be better off losing some of the creatures for more creature hate. Some of the ones you currently run aren't very important for the deck. For example you could cut Kagemaro for Lethal Vapors and another one for The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale. My vote is to cut Bloodgift Demon for it. If 4 mana draw is too expensive, which I agree it is, then a fragile 5 mana spell that may net you card advantage doesn't seem like a very good choice.
Kagemaro is fantastic in any black deck running Corpse Dance. It is essentially 6 mana kill all creatures (including stopping regen and indestructible). Granted this is hand size dependent but X-D is generally on the more controlly side so that shouldn't be too much of an issue unless you're trying to kill Krosan Cloudscraper lol.
Here goes:
1. RE: Card choices
-Life's Finale: No need for another wrath, especially one at 6cc which allows regeneration. Remember, once you get a wrath in your graveyard, you can keep getting it back. You have plenty of tutors to find the multiple wraths the deck already runs.
Cabal Conditioning: Too conditional and too costly. Mind Twist takes out one player, and Myojin takes them all out. Those two have been more than enough.
-Vesuva: thought about it, but coming into play tapped can be annoying. All I really would copy is Coffers, but it has always been win-more when I've tried it. Perhaps I'll give it another shot.
-Boseiju, who shelters all: With the discard effects built into this deck (and the fact that you can keep recurring them), I don't fear countermagic
-Homeward path: You hit it on the head...I don't really attack with my creatures all that often, and I don't have that many to really warrant the slot.
-Scrying Sheets: With the large number of snow-covered swamps, it's pure card advantage mid-to-late game. I've been pleased with it so far
-Kagemaro and Bloodgift Demon: Jivanmukta is right, Kage is a wrath on a stick for this deck, as Corpse Dance is one of the first cards I tutor for. Bloodgift Demon is a nice early draw-engine wrapped in a blocker/beater. He's been excellent every time I've drawn him.
-Bubbling Muck: With Infernal Darkness to lock out the game, this card is not needed. When the upkeep on Darkness is too much, I let it die and recur it quite easily.
-Insidious Dreams: I'm hesitant...this card can be serious card disadvantage, especially if it gets countered. At the moment, I have more-or-less the full tutor suite. One more is probably not needed, but I'll test it out and see.
-Ill-gotten Gains: Nice late-game card, but I'm not sure its needed, especially considering how much recursion this deck already has.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
-Scrying Sheets: With the large number of snow-covered swamps, it's pure card advantage mid-to-late game. I've been pleased with it so far
-Kagemaro and Bloodgift Demon: Jivanmukta is right, Kage is a wrath on a stick for this deck, as Corpse Dance is one of the first cards I tutor for. Bloodgift Demon is a nice early draw-engine wrapped in a blocker/beater. He's been excellent every time I've drawn him.
-Bubbling Muck: With Infernal Darkness to lock out the game, this card is not needed. When the upkeep on Darkness is too much, I let it die and recur it quite easily.
-Insidious Dreams: I'm hesitant...this card can be serious card disadvantage, especially if it gets countered. At the moment, I have more-or-less the full tutor suite. One more is probably not needed, but I'll test it out and see.
-Ill-gotten Gains: Nice late-game card, but I'm not sure its needed, especially considering how much recursion this deck already has.
Scrying Sheets - Without library manipulation which this deck does not have a lot of you're drawing a Swamp less than 1/3 of the time. If this is the most efficient use of your mana you're probably losing pretty badly already. I think you'd be much better off running a Swamp in this slot or at least a different utility land you could get better use out of. Maybe I view this deck as being more aggressive than you play it but being good in the mid-late game is not a quality I value very high for this deck.
Kagemaro & Bloodgift Demon - I had forgotten about the importance of Corpse Dance for this deck, that makes Kagemaro much better. Bloodgift Demon still feels like a random good card instead of a card that's included because it has synergy with the deck. I wouldn't think that Bloodgift Demon beats are winning a lot of games so he seems to be included more for the draw power and I think there are better options out there.
Bubbling Muck - I'm very familiar with the power of Infernal Darkness (I originally recommended it to MCR) but it doesn't have anything to do with Bubbling Muck. Bubbling Muck is a ritual, it has good synergy with your general, it's good with Candelabra, it's fantastic with Yawgmoth's Will and it helps fuel explosive turns and early game bombs.
Nevinyrral's Disk - A few years ago I would have agreed with you but recently we've been flooded with colorless removal options which are superior to the antiquated Disk. All the regulars in my multiplayer playgroup has a monoblack list and none of them run Disk anymore because it's slow and easy to disrupt.
- In a vacuum it appears to be card disadvantage but in actual play this is rarely the case. Often it will pitch 2-3 cards and you can put a card draw spell on top like Promise of Power or Necropotence turning the disadvantage into significant card advantage. I often fetch a tutor, a draw spell and/or a bonus spell or something like Exsanguinate, mana doubler, draw spell. One thing you have to be careful about is counterspells because the discard is an additional cost. In situations where I suspect my opponent may have a counter I will often cast it and only pitch 1 card to avoid getting blown out. While this may seem poor it's still a fine play and shows how flexible this card can be.
Here's the writeup I did in my monoblack thread about Insidious Dreams. I think it's much better than some tutors you currently run such as Cruel Tutor and Diabolic Tutor and it's better in your deck than it is in mine because you have better recursion and easily assembled combos.
- The power of the card is all in the timing, similar in a way to how Balance is absurdly powerful (and much more powerful than Ill-Gotten Gains, this is just an example) but might appear fair to someone who hasn't played with it. Now Balance is unfair because it's much easier to break but it's also unfair because the Balance caster gets to choose when it happens. If they have a favorable board position they simply choose not to cast it. This is the same with Ill-Gotten Gains, in most situations you do not want to cast it. You have cards in hand, dangerous stuff in opponents graveyard, etc. This card becomes very powerful though when you do want to cast it. It will often be the last card in your hand (or you're holding stuff you don't care about) and it's a tripleRegrowth. Now while it may seem that this benefits your opponents equally since they all get 3 Regrowths too it often will not. Let's assume your opponents are good players with good decks. Good decks will usually have more than 3 cards in their hand and will have a deck full of good cards so the cards in their hand will be good. So if for example they are holding 6 good cards, this causes them to pitch those cards for 3 good cards. Now their card quality may have increased (and this is a maybe) but they are now down 3 good cards.
As far as breaking the synergy of the card the best way to do this is through discard. Ideally you get back Myojin of Night's Reach and make them dump their hand while still getting to keep 2 cards but often even a simple Mindtwist on the person who got the best cards back will suffice. Additionally you can use graveyard hate to limit people's options.
The last thing I'd like to add is that after casting Ill-Gotten Gains everyone will know what everyone else is holding. This should make everyone's threat assessment excellent so the most threatening player should be the one that gets targeted. You don't want this to be you so if you are casting it "fairly" (not breaking the symmetry or immediately winning) you want to get back cards that aren't immediately threatening to opponents. Cards like Phyrexian Arena are great because they aren't an immediate threat so people will generally let you have Arena because there are more serious things for them to worry about. Choosing the correct cards can be incredibly skill testing for everyone which is one of the reasons I like the card so much.
Here's the writeup I did for this card and you can find the SCD link here. For this deck the early disruption is pretty potent and is the main reason I recommended it. Redundant recursion is just a nice bonus.
Kagemaro is probably the most important wipe for this deck due to how much it loves the Dance.
In my friends X-D deck he mostly wins through Hatred it's a fairly new deck though. Is this common? I've noticed he also has a little trouble 'controlling' the game like I feel he should be doing. Any advice? I can post the deck if needed.
Deception, distraction, and diplomacy are powerful tools, that when wielded right, yield victory.
A repeatable Time Warp seems like it would be pretty useful. If they choose to counter it you're still ahead especially in the early game.
Wound Reflection is another card that is good by itself and begs to be dealt with right away. With Crypt Rats you wouldn't even have to hit with Consume Spirit first, just hit every one for the half of the highest life total. You're already running Sorin Markov too which will take out a player on their own.
Combine the two with X-D engine and you have infinite turns unless a player wants to take themselves out of the game as well.
Specifically:
Exsanguinate Self explanatory.
Necrotic Ooze Combos with X-D, Crypt Rats, Chainer, Drana, and Kagemaro. Especially good if X-D gets stuck in the graveyard without anyway out. Not too mention what your opponents may have.
Mimic Vat X-D every turn for 3 mana. Also works with Fleshbag, Kagemaro, Myojin.
Nim Deathmantle Bring X-D back or any of your other saccable creatures for 4 mana and they're boosted. Repeatable multiple times a turn.
It pains me to say that because of work and school I barely have that much time to play multiplayer EDH anymore. I'm highly considering scrapping this deck and building Skithiryx for 1v1 instead - but I will always keep updating this list as new sets come out. For now, I will keep playing X-D though
No problem dude! If I wanted to keep tech, I would not have posted it on here. I value feedback and other players' ideas to help develop my list; I think it's silly for people to withhold lists that could potentially evolve through discussion and collective experiences.
I have considered Temporal Extortion, but I never tried it. There's nothing wrong with the card, and it's actually really good in multiplayer. I haven't added it because I didn't feel it was very necessary, though mileage with those kinds of cards will always vary.
The reason why I don't run Wound Reflection is because it does so little on its own. Sure it's great with Crypt Rats, but I don't need cards that don't perform anything outside of one or two interactions. It might work for you, but I personally loathe these kinds of cards. I like to play things cards that have immediate impact.
Yes I did!
It is indeed a gem that was designed for EDH
As of now, Exsanguinate will most likely replace either Crypt Rats or Consume Spirit (probably the former).
I just think it's kinda funny cause this card sorta just invalidates both of our comments from above. This is a "one card to rule them all" type situation. After you have your lock and your mana, just tutor for this and win. No need to get cute with Crypt Rats (though Crypt Rats is still decent by itself).
Intriguing finds. When I was going through the spoiler, I didn't even keep Xiahou Dun in mind. However, these are all fairly good and might see play in here. Going through each card...
Necrotic Ooze: I don't like this card so much in here. Yes he can get Xiahou Dun back, but that's what our other spells are for. Although he can get Xiahou Dun back, he's basically a one-shot at that point. I'd say no to this guy for now.
Mimic Vat: This card won't make it in here because it only happens once a turn. This is exactly why Dawn of the Dead didn't make it in here. Sure it's good, but we need repeatable effects, like Corpse Dance to allow us to actually combo off.
Nim Deathmantle: This is the card that's closest to making the cut, but I'll tell you why we should be wary. There is a very key clause on this card that makes it a lot worse than it looks: "Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay (4)". The reason why Phyrexian Reclamation kept its spot is because you could bring back Fleshbag Marauder on turn 4 and cast him again if necessary. Nim Deathmantle basically makes it so that you must have the mana available right away for the effect to take place, otherwise your creature will just go to the graveyard and that'll be the end of that. So in a sense, it can't even save Xiahou Dun or bring him back from the dead - it's only good when you're already comboing off. That said, the reason I DO consider this card is because it is the same casting cost as Corpse Dance (w/ Jet Medallion) while you're comboing off. It's also less prone to being countered at your first use, which is usually why you have to be so wary about using Corpse Dance early in the game. Is it worth the slot? I think it just barely falls short. Our three infinite X-D generators (Phyrexian Reclamation, Corpse Dance, and Chainer, Dementia Master) are all much more flexible in here. It makes me sad cause I really like the art on it >.<
Thank you for the solid suggestions though - I wouldn't blame anyone else for putting any of the cards you mentioned above into their MBC lists. They're very good - but I'm a spike at heart and aim to streamline my deck with consistency.
One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
My H/W list
Also, you might want to consider Basalt Monolith as a secondary infinite mana generator with rings. It doubles as a quick fix early game, and has proven to be useful late game as well should I need more mana to push for the final group of tutors to win.
-1 Chainer's Edict
-1 Mind Shatter
-1 Anvil of Bogarden
-1 Chains of Meph
-1 Innocent Blood
I've never found the Chainer's Edict to be all that useful in multiplayer, and have had more than enough removal between the multiple wrath-esq spells. The same goes for Innocent Blood. Three x-cost hand discard spells has also been overkill for me. Finally, the combo is nice, but on it's own Anvil helps my opponents too much, and Chains by itself shuts down my own draw.
In these spots, I've put:
+1 Ashes to Ashes
+1 Dread
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Mind Syphon
+1?
Ashes to Ashes gives me the added removal I need, Dread is an amazing deterrent versus creature-heavy opponents, and Pithing needle shuts down a lot of annoyances. Mind Syphon has been a nice bump in the card draw, but could be easily cut. I have one spot open, which I think might go to Karn Liberated if I can't think of anything else.
Finally, although I am still unsure about this change, I cut three swamps to run: Vesuva, Boseiju, and Homeward Path. Being able to get past counters and steal-creature spells is clutch. The Vesuva has always been gold for me in EDH, and I tend to run it in everything.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
1. Bloodchief Ascension: In multiplayer games, the lifegain has been tremendous. Not to mention the gradual attrition putting the rest of the table into early Exsanguinate range
2. Temporal Extortion: On its own, this cards is marginal. However, being able to recur in with Xiahou Dun makes it exceptional.
I know this deck doesn't see much play (mostly on account of the general being so rare), but I'd love to hear the thoughts of other MBC players.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Thank You Rivenor/Miraculous Recovery Studios!
GGGSKamahl's Band of Monstosities SGGG
RRRSFreaki-Kiki, The Goblin DoucheSRRR
BBGGNath, Raper of Hands and Spewer of Tokens!GGBB
BUGDamia, Sage of AnswersBUG
WIPs
BBBXiahou Dun, the Bitter Stax Enabling BastardBBB
On Break
BBBSKagemaro, First to RetireSBBB
BBBThe Walking DeadBBB
UUUSTeferi Combo PrimerSUUU
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Temporal Extortion is an MVP in this deck. The ability to recur it gets quite ridiculous.
Bloodchief Ascension has yet to see play. I'm thinking it might get cut for a Bloodgift Demon. a 5/4 flyer with a built-in Phyrexian Arena is hard to pass up.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
1 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
Creatures:
1 Myojin of Night’s Reach (discard)
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief (removal)
1 Fleshbag Marauder (removal)
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One (removal/recur)
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer (wrath)
1 Nirkana Revenant (ramp)
1 Chainer, Dementia Master (recur)
1 Bloodgift Demon (draw)
Planeswalkers:
1 Sorin Markov
1 Liliana Vess
1 Karn Liberated
Arifacts/colorless:
1 All is Dust (boardwipe)
1 Nevinyrral’s Disk (boardwipe)
1 Oblivion Stone (boardwipe)
1 Sensi’s Diving Top
1 Arena of Ancients
1 Rings of Brighthearth (combo piece)
1 Expedition Map (tutor)
1 Sol Ring (ramp)
1 Mana Crypt (ramp)
1 Jet Medallion (ramp)
1 Candelabra of Tawnos (ramp)
1 Basalt Monolith (combo)
1 Caged Sun (ramp)
1 Extraplanar Lense (ramp)
1 Gauntlet of Power (ramp)
1 Mind Twist (discard)
1 Nightmare Void (discard)
1 Consume Spirit (drain)
1 Exsanguinate (drain)
1 Profane Command (drain/recur)
1 Grim Discovery (recur)
1 Corpse Dance (recur)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation (recur)
1 Shred Memory (tutor/graveyard-hate)
1 Suffer the Past (graveyard-hate)
1 Ashes to Ashes (removal)
1 Go for the Throat (removal)
1 Rend Flesh (removal)
1 Mutilate (wrath)
1 Damnation (wrath)
1 Decree of Pain (wrath)
1 Black Sun’s Zenith (wrath)
1 Sign in Blood (draw)
1 Night’s Whisper (draw)
1 Phyrexian Arena (draw)
1 Necropotence (draw)
1 Demonic Tutor (tutor)
1 Grim Tutor (tutor)
1 Bessech the Queen (tutor)
1 Diabolic Tutor (tutor)
1 Vampiric Tutor (tutor)
1 Imperial Seal (tutor)
1 Cruel Tutor (tutor)
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Infernal Darkness
1 Nether Void
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 The Abyss
1 Imp’s Mischief
1 Temporal Extortion
30 Snow-covered Swamp
1 Deserted Temple (combo)
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Scrying Sheets (draw)
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Thawing Glaciers (ramp)
1 Dust Bowl
1 Petrified Field
1 Cabal Coffers
One change I'm currently contemplating is swapping Petrified Field for Buried Ruin. The deck already has Grim Discovery to get back lands, and it would be nice to be able to recur a disk or o-stone, or perhaps even a mana-ramp artifact.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
-1 Rend Flesh
+1 Victim of Night
It's faster, hits a majority of creatures, and between that and Go For The Throat, and Ashes to Ashes, I can take out any targetable creature.
-1 Petrified Field
+1 Buried Ruin
I can already recur lands with Grim Discovery, and being able to bring back Disk/O-Stone as well as ramp artifacts is quite valuable.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Do you mean Gauntlet of Power in the decklist above? As I don't get the use of Gauntlet of might.
I might be blind, but was this deck ment mainly for multiplayer? I'm probably playing only multiplayer, so, for example, the Rageinyasha's deck doesn't completely suit my purposes (otherwise I like that a lot as well).
Also, you don't use Ancient Craving and/or Ambition's cost at all. Instead you got two 2 mana spells that draw two cards. Is the lower mana worth the loss of 1 card?
The deck is designed for Multiplayer...and does quite well against the full gamut of competitive decks.
The main reasons for not using the 4cc draw spells is that they just don't fit the curve. Early on, you want the draw. Later on, Necropotence is your best friend. The 2cc spells fit well, and are easy to manage at every point in the game.
I did cut Petrified Field for Buried Ruin. Being able to recur artifacts has been clutch.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Life's Finale
Cabal Conditioning (Better than mind twist in multiplayer?)
Vesuva
Boseiju, who shelters all
Homeward path
Do you have problems with counterspells or having your creatures controlled? X-D lists do not use many creatures on the battlefield though (as far as I understand), so Path probably doesn't belong. Boseiju is only valid if you constantly fight against counterspells of course. Vesuva I would assume to be helpful in many situations. Even having double Cabal Coffers would be cool?
I question whether Scrying Sheets is better than a Swamp. When and how often do you activate it and how often is that more important than having a Swamp which interacts with you numerous mana doublers?
You might be better off losing some of the creatures for more creature hate. Some of the ones you currently run aren't very important for the deck. For example you could cut Kagemaro for Lethal Vapors and another one for The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale. My vote is to cut Bloodgift Demon for it. If 4 mana draw is too expensive, which I agree it is, then a fragile 5 mana spell that may net you card advantage doesn't seem like a very good choice.
Another card I think would be great in this deck is Bubbling Muck. It's always been great for me in monoblack and it helps fuel explosive game winning turns. To make room I think it's safe to lose Nevinyrral's Disk. The deck is already has some redundancy to get rid of enchantments/artifacts and it's filled with tutors so the Disk simply isn't needed.
A tutor that you're missing is Insidious Dreams. As long as you don't walk this into a counterspell it's very strong here as you're able to set up combos and you still have access to the cards you pitch. With enough mana and a few cards in hand it will just win the game for you.
The only other card I thought of was Ill-Gotten Gains. I'm not sure if you need that one though, just throwing it out there for some discussion.
Kagemaro is fantastic in any black deck running Corpse Dance. It is essentially 6 mana kill all creatures (including stopping regen and indestructible). Granted this is hand size dependent but X-D is generally on the more controlly side so that shouldn't be too much of an issue unless you're trying to kill Krosan Cloudscraper lol.
Here goes:
1. RE: Card choices
-Life's Finale: No need for another wrath, especially one at 6cc which allows regeneration. Remember, once you get a wrath in your graveyard, you can keep getting it back. You have plenty of tutors to find the multiple wraths the deck already runs.
Cabal Conditioning: Too conditional and too costly. Mind Twist takes out one player, and Myojin takes them all out. Those two have been more than enough.
-Vesuva: thought about it, but coming into play tapped can be annoying. All I really would copy is Coffers, but it has always been win-more when I've tried it. Perhaps I'll give it another shot.
-Boseiju, who shelters all: With the discard effects built into this deck (and the fact that you can keep recurring them), I don't fear countermagic
-Homeward path: You hit it on the head...I don't really attack with my creatures all that often, and I don't have that many to really warrant the slot.
-Scrying Sheets: With the large number of snow-covered swamps, it's pure card advantage mid-to-late game. I've been pleased with it so far
-Kagemaro and Bloodgift Demon: Jivanmukta is right, Kage is a wrath on a stick for this deck, as Corpse Dance is one of the first cards I tutor for. Bloodgift Demon is a nice early draw-engine wrapped in a blocker/beater. He's been excellent every time I've drawn him.
-Bubbling Muck: With Infernal Darkness to lock out the game, this card is not needed. When the upkeep on Darkness is too much, I let it die and recur it quite easily.
-Nevinyrral's Disk: This deck is, as all MBC decks are, light on enchantment/artifact removal. Having Disk+Oblivion Stone+All is Dust+Karn Liberated has been very important for multiplayer games.
-Insidious Dreams: I'm hesitant...this card can be serious card disadvantage, especially if it gets countered. At the moment, I have more-or-less the full tutor suite. One more is probably not needed, but I'll test it out and see.
-Ill-gotten Gains: Nice late-game card, but I'm not sure its needed, especially considering how much recursion this deck already has.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Scrying Sheets - Without library manipulation which this deck does not have a lot of you're drawing a Swamp less than 1/3 of the time. If this is the most efficient use of your mana you're probably losing pretty badly already. I think you'd be much better off running a Swamp in this slot or at least a different utility land you could get better use out of. Maybe I view this deck as being more aggressive than you play it but being good in the mid-late game is not a quality I value very high for this deck.
Kagemaro & Bloodgift Demon - I had forgotten about the importance of Corpse Dance for this deck, that makes Kagemaro much better. Bloodgift Demon still feels like a random good card instead of a card that's included because it has synergy with the deck. I wouldn't think that Bloodgift Demon beats are winning a lot of games so he seems to be included more for the draw power and I think there are better options out there.
Bubbling Muck - I'm very familiar with the power of Infernal Darkness (I originally recommended it to MCR) but it doesn't have anything to do with Bubbling Muck. Bubbling Muck is a ritual, it has good synergy with your general, it's good with Candelabra, it's fantastic with Yawgmoth's Will and it helps fuel explosive turns and early game bombs.
Nevinyrral's Disk - A few years ago I would have agreed with you but recently we've been flooded with colorless removal options which are superior to the antiquated Disk. All the regulars in my multiplayer playgroup has a monoblack list and none of them run Disk anymore because it's slow and easy to disrupt.
- In a vacuum it appears to be card disadvantage but in actual play this is rarely the case. Often it will pitch 2-3 cards and you can put a card draw spell on top like Promise of Power or Necropotence turning the disadvantage into significant card advantage. I often fetch a tutor, a draw spell and/or a bonus spell or something like Exsanguinate, mana doubler, draw spell. One thing you have to be careful about is counterspells because the discard is an additional cost. In situations where I suspect my opponent may have a counter I will often cast it and only pitch 1 card to avoid getting blown out. While this may seem poor it's still a fine play and shows how flexible this card can be.
Here's the writeup I did in my monoblack thread about Insidious Dreams. I think it's much better than some tutors you currently run such as Cruel Tutor and Diabolic Tutor and it's better in your deck than it is in mine because you have better recursion and easily assembled combos.
- The power of the card is all in the timing, similar in a way to how Balance is absurdly powerful (and much more powerful than Ill-Gotten Gains, this is just an example) but might appear fair to someone who hasn't played with it. Now Balance is unfair because it's much easier to break but it's also unfair because the Balance caster gets to choose when it happens. If they have a favorable board position they simply choose not to cast it. This is the same with Ill-Gotten Gains, in most situations you do not want to cast it. You have cards in hand, dangerous stuff in opponents graveyard, etc. This card becomes very powerful though when you do want to cast it. It will often be the last card in your hand (or you're holding stuff you don't care about) and it's a triple Regrowth. Now while it may seem that this benefits your opponents equally since they all get 3 Regrowths too it often will not. Let's assume your opponents are good players with good decks. Good decks will usually have more than 3 cards in their hand and will have a deck full of good cards so the cards in their hand will be good. So if for example they are holding 6 good cards, this causes them to pitch those cards for 3 good cards. Now their card quality may have increased (and this is a maybe) but they are now down 3 good cards.
As far as breaking the synergy of the card the best way to do this is through discard. Ideally you get back Myojin of Night's Reach and make them dump their hand while still getting to keep 2 cards but often even a simple Mindtwist on the person who got the best cards back will suffice. Additionally you can use graveyard hate to limit people's options.
The last thing I'd like to add is that after casting Ill-Gotten Gains everyone will know what everyone else is holding. This should make everyone's threat assessment excellent so the most threatening player should be the one that gets targeted. You don't want this to be you so if you are casting it "fairly" (not breaking the symmetry or immediately winning) you want to get back cards that aren't immediately threatening to opponents. Cards like Phyrexian Arena are great because they aren't an immediate threat so people will generally let you have Arena because there are more serious things for them to worry about. Choosing the correct cards can be incredibly skill testing for everyone which is one of the reasons I like the card so much.
Here's the writeup I did for this card and you can find the SCD link here. For this deck the early disruption is pretty potent and is the main reason I recommended it. Redundant recursion is just a nice bonus.
In my friends X-D deck he mostly wins through Hatred it's a fairly new deck though. Is this common? I've noticed he also has a little trouble 'controlling' the game like I feel he should be doing. Any advice? I can post the deck if needed.