So, I've always wanted to abuse and use the redirection effects of the original Kor. I've got the majority of the idea here but I need some help refining it down to the final list and probably need some help with some optimization stuff so that the deck can achieve it's goals. This is essentially going to be the ultimate in the "akido" style decks
Okay, so Sideboard cards first - these are basically cards that I am considering to put in there even less than the first 130+
Sunforger - I don't think that I have the instant package to support it but I'll listen if someone recounts it for me and shows me different.
Karona's Zealot - On theme, but it's a morph creature so it's a one time deal and there are better one time deals out there.
Mindmoil - Just lets you dig farther into the deck at the risk of drawing bad cards or losing good ones. I thought it'd be relevant because of all the wheel effects I included for funsies.
Geth's Grimore - Making wheels non-symmetric seems good, but at the same time I don't want to draw too much. Anyways, it's relevant here but not necessarily on theme
Moonring Mirror - I thought it was interesting that you could basically go through your deck double drawing on the wheels and then dump your empty hand for a huge new one. This would probably need for me to include that land with no max hand size that escapes me right now.
Eternal Flame - This guy gets you style points, but is potentially weak because of the mountain-counting. The cool thing is the potential to redirect the damage that you would have dealt to yourself to your opponent.
Kiyomaro, First to Stand - Basically with all the wheel effects I figured that I'd be close to hand=7 so I'd be gaining life and having this vigilance dude, but I don't necessarily think he is super relevant.
Rolling Earthquake - Just a reprint of Earthquake, too expensive really, but looking at it in the suite of cards that are damage style sweepers so that I can turn them into one sided sweepers with redirection and damage too if I'm real lucky.
I chose Gisela not because I plan on using her a whole ton but because she's in the colors that I want and because she actually plays into the theme on one hand (while kind of neutering it on the other, which is why I don't expect to rely on playing her too often).
So yeah, the basic plan is to use a Stuffy Doll enchanted or equipped with Pariah or Pariah's Shield (and Flickerform if it's a multiplayer game to reselect a target) and then all those Kor that let you redirect damage to or from them to protect themselves and your face from your opponents to either Stuffy Doll or Retromancer who would then stay alive because of Shaman en-Kor (this probably needs some more work but I might have already solved it in my list there). There could be a place for more blink-style effects to walk off the big hits that my creatures will be taking but I'm not sure yet.
I should probably add those two cards that bring back all your stuff after a boardwipe occurs as insurance? I should probably also throw in that lightning bolt mountain which I forget currently as well. Oh and isn't there a new angel that makes everyone you control indestructible? That would probably be the hotness with all this damage floating about.
I put in the wheel effects and things that mattered about those for fun and a plan B. Red had some good punisher cards for that stuff.
The Pyrohemia and Vise effects are all there in support of the main goal of using direct damage to hurt everyone besides yourself. I have a fair amount of effects in the list there that deal damage to all creatures instead of just destroying them because there's a good chance that the deck can turn them into one sided sweepers/damage dealers with the redirection effects.
I've got a number of damage doublers in there mainly to try to get there off damage. There's a lot of life to burn down, so that's included to help that out. I intend on conceding to any dedicated life gain decks.
Alright, so hivemind, help me cut the fat and tweak the list and get it to be a legal and successful deck! Thanks!
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
yep me to I said this in another thread I came up with an idea like this one as well but I later found I really didn't like the R/W colour combination since it feels so restrictive basically you have to play EDH staples your your deck doesn't have the card advantage and ramp it needs.
I'd prefer to build this deck for Zedruu.. need the blue mana for card draw and recursion of redirection spells.
Tl;DR I can't afford RW :S.... despite having three R/W generals (giesla, Razia, jor kadeen) in my rare folder :'(.
On your deck specifically I kind of feel you will be hit with half of your own damage artifacts since you have the least card advantage I get the feeling you will have < 3 cards in hand more than your opponents particularly if they are blue. Have you found you just run out of spells? I know you have a bunch of wheel effects. you only way to return things from your graveyard is elixir of immortality as far as I can tell... what happens if you run out of spells?
Manabarbs is a really, really good card, and can be a real pain for your opponents if they are not prepare for that....i suggest you use Urza Armor, or Personal Sanctuary...you can abuse the fact that you dont have ramp in RW and others probably will...you can punish them when they put land into play...with your commander in play, an Ankh of Mishra will do the job...
Protect your creatures with indestructible or flicker effect.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hakim, Loreweaver
Autumn Willow Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Chromium
Skyfire Kirin
I later found I really didn't like the R/W colour combination since it feels so restrictive basically you have to play EDH staples your your deck doesn't have the card advantage and ramp it needs.
I'd prefer to build this deck for Zedruu.. need the blue mana for card draw and recursion of redirection spells.
Yeah, I'm not sure how many staples it will require to operate, so that's why I was looking for some input. I'm not looking for Zedruu unless I end up switching out the wheel effects for more copying effects (though I'd prefer to keep those effects in a Riku deck).
On your deck specifically I kind of feel you will be hit with half of your own damage artifacts since you have the least card advantage I get the feeling you will have < 3 cards in hand more than your opponents particularly if they are blue. Have you found you just run out of spells? I know you have a bunch of wheel effects. you only way to return things from your graveyard is elixir of immortality as far as I can tell... what happens if you run out of spells?
I'm not worried about hitting myself because of the redirection effects. I need more tutors and more recursion, so some recommendations there would be good. I envision redirecting damage to my creatures or to an opponent through [cards]Pariah[/card], Pariah's Shield, Stuffy Doll, etc.
i dont see dawn elemental in there. and also what is your recovery from wrath effects which are popular? any board sweeper would ruin your day.
Dawn Elemental is a great choice for someone to funnel damage to, thanks. The cards I was imagining to get out of a sweeper effect are basically Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward. They aren't in the list but what I meant and couldn't remember. Another is that Avacyn, Angel of Hope, already imagine switching her out with that useless Serra Avatar.
Manabarbs is a really, really good card, and can be a real pain for your opponents if they are not prepare for that....i suggest you use Urza Armor, or Personal Sanctuary...you can abuse the fact that you dont have ramp in RW and others probably will...you can punish them when they put land into play...with your commander in play, an Ankh of Mishra will do the job...
Protect your creatures with indestructible or flicker effect.
I've got Manabarbs in there, I'm not too interested in Urza's Armor however because I want to be hurt so that it can be redirected. The lynchpin of the deck isn't Gisela, it's Stuffy Doll but that little workhorse isn't legendary (and is in the wrong colors). Personal Sanctuary seems like a good back-up card though, thanks.
Ankh of Mishra and Zo-ju the Punisher both could be good, so I'll consider those highly. However, they're not exactly on theme as much as additional punisher effects.
Removed: Primordial Ooze ;better creatures/utility & enough ways to hurt myself already Wheel Effects ;Just wanted to take out the whole package for room 1 Shocker
1 Barbed Shocker
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Dragon Mage 1 Roiling Terrain ;only for wheels 1 Winds of Change
1 Molten Psyche
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
1 Hoofprints of the Stag
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Diviner's Wand
1 Runeflare Trap
1 Gaze of Adamaro
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Sudden Impact
1 Reforge the Soul 1 Eternal Dragon ;unnecessary? 1 Serra Avatar ;just bad 1 Desperate Gambit ;one shot, don't see one blowout turn 1 Quest for Pure Flame ;see above 1 Spiritual Asylum ;Removed because shroud is not helpful 1 Lightning Greaves ;Shroud is counterproductive 1 AEther Flash ;I want creatures in play 1 Karona's Zealot ;One time sucks 1 Mindmoil ;Awful for wheels even 1 Geth's Grimoire ;No purpose w/o wheel effects 1 Mind's Eye ;w/o wheels it's not abusable though still good so prob should still include? 1 Moonring Mirror ;see above 1 Eternal Flame ;better burn exists 1 Kiyomaro, First to Stand ;not effective here 1 Rolling Earthquake ;better reprints exist 1 Extraplanar Lens ;Unneccesary? 1 Angelheart Vial ;This is terrible no matter what, honestly
I still need to cut a few cards, though, so thoughts on that would be helpful.
Also, and more realistically, I need some better ways to recur my important stuff. The lynchpin here is basically Stuffy Doll + Pariah, and there are only two effects like Pariah and no effects like the Doll that I know of. So I need to be able to recur them and keep them in play. If I could just have Stuffy Doll be my general I would. Any thoughts on some good recursion and tutoring for those pieces of the puzzle?
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Lands
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Garrison
1 City of Brass
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Dormant Volcano
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karoo
10 Mountain
12 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scabland
Creatures - Redirection
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Warrior en-Kor
1 Outrider en-Kor
1 Shaman en-Kor
1 Coalition Honor Guard
1 Retromancer
1 Spirit en-Kor
1 Kjeldoran Royal Guard
1 Lancers en-Kor
1 Vengeful Archon
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Veteran Bodyguard
1 Weathered Bodyguards
1 Standard Bearer
1 Martyrs of Korlis
Creatures - Damage dealers
1 Primordial Ooze
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
Creatures - Wheel effects
1 Shocker
1 Barbed Shocker
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Dragon Mage
Creatures - DOT effects
1 Obsidian Fireheart
1 Rackling
1 Viseling
Creatures - Utiliy
1 Academy Rector
1 Fountain Watch
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Serra Avatar
Redirection
1 Pariah's Shield
1 Aegis of Honor
1 Coalition Flag
1 Divine Deflection
1 Honorable Passage
1 Kor Chant
1 Pariah
1 Repercussion
1 Harsh Judgment
1 Sivvi's Valor
1 Entangler
1 Mirror Strike
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Turn the Tables
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Fault Line
1 Earthquake
1 Starstorm
1 Brightflame
1 Chain Reaction
1 Pyrohemia
1 Roiling Terrain
Damage Doublers
1 Desperate Gambit
1 Quest for Pure Flame
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Curse of Bloodletting
1 Gratuitous Violence
Resets
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Feldon's Cane
1 Archangel's Light
Tutors
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Idyllic Tutor
Targeted Burn
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Fanning the Flames
Wheel Effects
1 Winds of Change
1 Molten Psyche
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
1 Hoofprints of the Stag
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Diviner's Wand
1 Runeflare Trap
1 Gaze of Adamaro
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Sudden Impact
1 Reforge the Soul
Protection
1 Flickerform
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mask of Avacyn
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Spiritual Asylum
1 Angelheart Vial
Removal
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Shattering Pulse
Damage Over Time
1 Power Surge
1 Psychogenic Probe
1 Citadel of Pain
1 Iron Maiden
1 Jinxed Choker
1 Manabarbs
1 Wheel of Torture
1 Thought Prison
1 Bulwark
1 AEther Flash
Mana Fixing/Doubling
1 Caged Sun
1 Gemstone Array
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Sunglasses of Urza
1 Sunforger
1 Karona's Zealot
1 Mindmoil
1 Geth's Grimoire
1 Mind's Eye
1 Moonring Mirror
1 Relic Ward
1 Eternal Flame
1 Kiyomaro, First to Stand
1 Rolling Earthquake
Okay, so Sideboard cards first - these are basically cards that I am considering to put in there even less than the first 130+
Karona's Zealot - On theme, but it's a morph creature so it's a one time deal and there are better one time deals out there.
Mindmoil - Just lets you dig farther into the deck at the risk of drawing bad cards or losing good ones. I thought it'd be relevant because of all the wheel effects I included for funsies.
Geth's Grimore - Making wheels non-symmetric seems good, but at the same time I don't want to draw too much. Anyways, it's relevant here but not necessarily on theme
Mind's Eye - again, nonsymmetric wheels
Moonring Mirror - I thought it was interesting that you could basically go through your deck double drawing on the wheels and then dump your empty hand for a huge new one. This would probably need for me to include that land with no max hand size that escapes me right now.
Relic Ward - really just a way for me to protect the ever valuable Stuffy Doll
Eternal Flame - This guy gets you style points, but is potentially weak because of the mountain-counting. The cool thing is the potential to redirect the damage that you would have dealt to yourself to your opponent.
Kiyomaro, First to Stand - Basically with all the wheel effects I figured that I'd be close to hand=7 so I'd be gaining life and having this vigilance dude, but I don't necessarily think he is super relevant.
Rolling Earthquake - Just a reprint of Earthquake, too expensive really, but looking at it in the suite of cards that are damage style sweepers so that I can turn them into one sided sweepers with redirection and damage too if I'm real lucky.
I chose Gisela not because I plan on using her a whole ton but because she's in the colors that I want and because she actually plays into the theme on one hand (while kind of neutering it on the other, which is why I don't expect to rely on playing her too often).
So yeah, the basic plan is to use a Stuffy Doll enchanted or equipped with Pariah or Pariah's Shield (and Flickerform if it's a multiplayer game to reselect a target) and then all those Kor that let you redirect damage to or from them to protect themselves and your face from your opponents to either Stuffy Doll or Retromancer who would then stay alive because of Shaman en-Kor (this probably needs some more work but I might have already solved it in my list there). There could be a place for more blink-style effects to walk off the big hits that my creatures will be taking but I'm not sure yet.
I should probably add those two cards that bring back all your stuff after a boardwipe occurs as insurance? I should probably also throw in that lightning bolt mountain which I forget currently as well. Oh and isn't there a new angel that makes everyone you control indestructible? That would probably be the hotness with all this damage floating about.
I put in the wheel effects and things that mattered about those for fun and a plan B. Red had some good punisher cards for that stuff.
The Pyrohemia and Vise effects are all there in support of the main goal of using direct damage to hurt everyone besides yourself. I have a fair amount of effects in the list there that deal damage to all creatures instead of just destroying them because there's a good chance that the deck can turn them into one sided sweepers/damage dealers with the redirection effects.
I've got a number of damage doublers in there mainly to try to get there off damage. There's a lot of life to burn down, so that's included to help that out. I intend on conceding to any dedicated life gain decks.
Alright, so hivemind, help me cut the fat and tweak the list and get it to be a legal and successful deck! Thanks!
Omnath: he's on PCP
RW Redirection
My 360 Pauper Cube
I'd prefer to build this deck for Zedruu.. need the blue mana for card draw and recursion of redirection spells.
Tl;DR I can't afford RW :S.... despite having three R/W generals (giesla, Razia, jor kadeen) in my rare folder :'(.
On your deck specifically I kind of feel you will be hit with half of your own damage artifacts since you have the least card advantage I get the feeling you will have < 3 cards in hand more than your opponents particularly if they are blue. Have you found you just run out of spells? I know you have a bunch of wheel effects. you only way to return things from your graveyard is elixir of immortality as far as I can tell... what happens if you run out of spells?
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Protect your creatures with indestructible or flicker effect.
Hakim, Loreweaver
Autumn Willow
Yomiji, Who Bars the Way
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Chromium
Skyfire Kirin
Yeah, I'm not sure how many staples it will require to operate, so that's why I was looking for some input. I'm not looking for Zedruu unless I end up switching out the wheel effects for more copying effects (though I'd prefer to keep those effects in a Riku deck).
I'm not worried about hitting myself because of the redirection effects. I need more tutors and more recursion, so some recommendations there would be good. I envision redirecting damage to my creatures or to an opponent through [cards]Pariah[/card], Pariah's Shield, Stuffy Doll, etc.
For resets, I have the 3 mentioned - Feldon's Cane, Elixir of Immortality, Archangel's Light. I think that I could definitely use more recursion.
Dawn Elemental is a great choice for someone to funnel damage to, thanks. The cards I was imagining to get out of a sweeper effect are basically Second Sunrise and Faith's Reward. They aren't in the list but what I meant and couldn't remember. Another is that Avacyn, Angel of Hope, already imagine switching her out with that useless Serra Avatar.
I've got Manabarbs in there, I'm not too interested in Urza's Armor however because I want to be hurt so that it can be redirected. The lynchpin of the deck isn't Gisela, it's Stuffy Doll but that little workhorse isn't legendary (and is in the wrong colors). Personal Sanctuary seems like a good back-up card though, thanks.
Ankh of Mishra and Zo-ju the Punisher both could be good, so I'll consider those highly. However, they're not exactly on theme as much as additional punisher effects.
EDIT: UPDATES!
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Lands
1 Ancient Amphitheater
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Boros Garrison
1 City of Brass
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Dormant Volcano
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karoo
10 Mountain
12 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Scabland
Creatures - Redirection
1 Nomads en-Kor
1 Warrior en-Kor
1 Outrider en-Kor
1 Shaman en-Kor
1 Coalition Honor Guard
1 Retromancer
1 Spirit en-Kor
1 Kjeldoran Royal Guard
1 Lancers en-Kor
1 Vengeful Archon
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Veteran Bodyguard
1 Weathered Bodyguards
1 Standard Bearer
1 Martyrs of Korlis
Creatures - Damage dealers
1 Ashling the Pilgrim
Creatures - DOT effects
1 Obsidian Fireheart
1 Rackling
1 Viseling
1 Zo-ju the Punisher
Creatures - Utiliy
1 Academy Rector
1 Fountain Watch
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Dawn Elemental
1 Callous Giant
1 Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
Redirection
1 Pariah's Shield
1 Aegis of Honor
1 Coalition Flag
1 Divine Deflection
1 Honorable Passage
1 Kor Chant
1 Pariah
1 Repercussion
1 Harsh Judgment
1 Sivvi's Valor
1 Entangler
1 Mirror Strike
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Turn the Tables
1 Boros Fury-Shield
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Fault Line
1 Earthquake
1 Starstorm
1 Brightflame
1 Chain Reaction
1 Pyrohemia
Damage Doublers
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Curse of Bloodletting
1 Gratuitous Violence
Resets
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Feldon's Cane
1 Archangel's Light
1 Second Sunrise
1 Faith's Reward
Tutors
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Idyllic Tutor
Targeted Burn
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Fanning the Flames
Protection
1 Flickerform
1 Mask of Avacyn
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Eternity Vessel
1 Greater Auramancy
Removal
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Shattering Pulse
Damage Over Time
1 Power Surge
1 Psychogenic Probe
1 Citadel of Pain
1 Iron Maiden
1 Jinxed Choker
1 Manabarbs
1 Wheel of Torture
1 Thought Prison
1 Bulwark
1 Ankh of Mishra
Mana Fixing/Doubling
1 Caged Sun
1 Gemstone Array
1 Sunglasses of Urza
maybe-board
1 Sunforger
1 Relic Ward
1 Atlya, Samite Master
1 Planar Guide
1 Oriss, Samite Guardian
1 Walking Atlas
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Remember the Fallen
1 Ghostway
1 Order of Whiteclay
1 Personal Sanctuary
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Invader Parasite
1 Shattered Angel
1 Divine Light
1 Endure
1 Forfend
1 Glittering Lion
1 Glittering Lynx
1 Hallow
1 Indestructible Aura
1 Inviolability
1 Light of Sanction
1 Leap of Faith
1 Mark of Asylum
1 Pay No Heed
1 Rune-Tail's Essence
1 Safe Passage
1 Samite Ministration
1 Sivvi's Ruse
1 Hazduhr the Abbot
1 Matyrdom
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Captain's Maneuver
1 Glarecaster
1 Oracle's Attendants
1 Ward of Piety
1 Zealous Inquisitor
1 Zhalfirin Crusader
Removed:
Primordial Ooze;better creatures/utility & enough ways to hurt myself alreadyWheel Effects;Just wanted to take out the whole package for room1 Shocker1 Barbed Shocker
1 Psychosis Crawler
1 Dragon Mage
1 Roiling Terrain;only for wheels1 Winds of Change1 Molten Psyche
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded
1 Hoofprints of the Stag
1 Chandra Ablaze
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Diviner's Wand
1 Runeflare Trap
1 Gaze of Adamaro
1 Spiraling Embers
1 Sudden Impact
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Eternal Dragon;unnecessary?1 Serra Avatar;just bad1 Desperate Gambit;one shot, don't see one blowout turn1 Quest for Pure Flame;see above1 Spiritual Asylum;Removed because shroud is not helpful1 Lightning Greaves;Shroud is counterproductive1 AEther Flash;I want creatures in play1 Karona's Zealot;One time sucks1 Mindmoil;Awful for wheels even1 Geth's Grimoire;No purpose w/o wheel effects1 Mind's Eye;w/o wheels it's not abusable though still good so prob should still include?1 Moonring Mirror;see above1 Eternal Flame;better burn exists1 Kiyomaro, First to Stand;not effective here1 Rolling Earthquake;better reprints exist1 Extraplanar Lens;Unneccesary?1 Angelheart Vial;This is terrible no matter what, honestlyI still need to cut a few cards, though, so thoughts on that would be helpful.
Also, and more realistically, I need some better ways to recur my important stuff. The lynchpin here is basically Stuffy Doll + Pariah, and there are only two effects like Pariah and no effects like the Doll that I know of. So I need to be able to recur them and keep them in play. If I could just have Stuffy Doll be my general I would. Any thoughts on some good recursion and tutoring for those pieces of the puzzle?
Does Chant of the Vitu-Ghazi work the way I think? i.e., Kor redirect damage, I play it and gain a bunch of life? Same with Ethereal Haze? And Soul Parry?
Good news everyone, I found more redirection cards!
Omnath: he's on PCP
RW Redirection
My 360 Pauper Cube