When I first saw Edric in the previews of of the Commander Decks, I knew he was going to be strong. He has more ridiculous card advantage than Sygg, River Cutthroat, and his ability is amazingly political. As it turns out, his ability is much less political when people see him piloting a deck than when he is simply one of 99; but the ridiculous card draw remains.
I first built Edric around a bunch of cheap unblockable and shadow creatures. The deck certainly got the card advantage down right, but was missing a bit in the threats and answers department. I put Edric on the side shelf for a while, trying to think of improvements. I realized I wanted more cheap creatures, but I was simultaneously concerned about the threat the deck was radiating, and its lack of defense or answers.. That's when I saw the decks posted by Donald, ISBPathfinder, and tedv. They had created a finely tuned deck, that was still improving. Their answer to the lack of defense? More offense.
An EDH deck where I could run Scryb Sprites, as a wincon? Yes, please! It took a long time to put together this deck. I was excited about the prospect, and bounced ideas off of all three other players to get experienced feedback as I slowly gathered the cards. Even with their help, I ended up with far more cards than I could run. Many had to be cut, and many will remain on the sidelines to see if the main lineup shows any weaknesses.
1 skyshroud ranger - cut due to lower land count and slower action. 1 null rod - shut stuff down 1 torpor orb - turn stuff off 1 Damping Matrix - shut stuff down 1 Submerge - free bounce 1 Steely Resolve - extra shroud source 1 Man-o'-war - bounce, in creature form 1 boomerang - the original bounce 1 stifle - stop annoying abilities on cards that have managed to resolve. Cheaper trickbind. 1 trickbind - stifle, with split second 1 spiketail drakeling - originally cut from deck, still a good living counter. Also is more of an early investment for later protection. May re-enter. 1 Viridian Zealot - more expensive, but an answer on a stick. Elf. 1 phantasmal image - answers problem generals.
TIME 1 Seed Time - probably good in a counter heavy zone?
wanted cards (0) until deck is complete
? Forsaken City
? Lion's Eye Diamond - I can see this making explosive starts, and also being extremely risky. Perhaps if more free creatures were included, this would be better.
Abjure vs Familiar's Ruse - I like the lower cost of abjure, but the color restriction is actually somewhat annoying, though has yet to fail me. The ruse is nicer as it allows you to regain your attacker potentially, and can be used to positive effect with cloud of faeries and elvish pioneer.
I may also shift my land count.
+1 island, -1 forest. I'll hold off for more testing though. It may just come down to the play decision of, in case of a choice, play the island.
Nice list bob! Not too much feedback I can give you (haven't been hiding any super secret tech) but I'd like to hear your thoughts on a couple cards. The first is Teferi's Veil. I tried this card on MTGO but it triggers an absurd number of times so simply because of time constraints I just can't run it. Just one of those cases where MTGO makes a card virtually unplayable that would be very simple to use in paper Magic. I've also been thinking more about Abjure. My MTGO list is hurting for quality counterspells so I'm running Familiar's Ruse right now but I'm thinking Abjure would be better in that slot. It may very well be good enough to be run in any Edric list but I want to give it a test run if you think it's worth it.
Heh. After the 22 pages of discussion on this guy in your thread, I think we're all running out of feedback for each other, lol. At the least, now that I've built my deck I can stop spamming ridiculous suggestions of cards for your feedback, since I can see just how limited the space in the deck is. I do have to admit though, I am tempted to cut my land down a bit more, especially since I'm missing a bunch of the higher cost creatures. I still need to put in Eternal Witness and Noxious Revival.
On Abjure: There are a lot more green permanents in the deck than blue, at roughly 23 green, 12 blue, but so far I haven't had a problem being unable to use it when I draw it, but I've been goldfishing so far. Since I play paper magic though, I'll hold off on an 'official' comment until tonight, after my games tonight.
Sad to hear about the veil online; I hadn't thought of that problem. Once its down though, it looks to be solid wrath protection, and then all you have to worry about are o-stones and pernicious deeds. If I find I don't have enough blue permanents for abjure, it'll get changed for an envelop, probably. Although, I do seem to be running slightly heavier counterspell count than you, though I am missing Kira and Erayo.
I'm still missing 2 fetchlands (wooded foothills and Flooded Strand), but I'm going to see how they play out before jumping to get those asap. The way I see it though, is it's a free copy of tropical island, thins my deck, and could be a dryad too. Speking of, I keep forgetting to count Dryad Arbor for my cradle.
So far, after my inital goldfish test, I have been really liking the Orochi Leafcaller to be able to drop out the 1 mana cost blue guys. Tonight will be the real test for him.
All that said, since I play paper magic, in a more casual environment, I don't see myself getting around to playing this deck too much tonight, unless a few special people are there; it might not be as fun for others.
I have a paper playgroup too but I play primarily on MTGO because it is much more convenient. My playgroup is pretty scattered so we usually only get together every month and a half or so for a full Magic weekend. Next one coming up is Labor day weekend so that's when I can really test out my paper version.
I'm also of the opinion that in a commander deck where Cloud Pirates is awesome there are no ridiculous suggestions :P.
Mainly did 1v1's while waiting for games, made a lot of play errors which I just need to get used to with the deck. I find myself counter light on some draws, and counter heavy on others, but thats randomization for you. I think I need to alter my playstyle a bit between them and not overextend too much without counter back up (despite really wanting to).
I didn't really get to test the Veil yet, it didn't come up during my games, so it'll sit a while and see where it goes.
Orochi Leafcaller Gets an MVP award in one game, where he let me cast a time warp with counter back up off a gaea's cradle and no other untapped source of blue; as well as just letting the cradle empty off anything I draw. ever.
The fetchlands all stay in the deck, I will be acquiring a wooded foothills soon for this. There is ONE game I did not start with a tropical island on turn one. I had to settle for turn 2. Opening hand: Breeding Pool, forest, island, arbor elf, spiketail hatchling, and a timewarp.Turn 1 draw, cloud of faeries. Turn 2 draw was a misty rainforest for the tropical island.
T1: breeding pool, arbor elf.
T2: misty-> tropical, cloud of faeries, spiketail hatchling, attack for 1.
T3: (drew a one drop) Edric, hit for 3, draw 3. giggle.
T4: crop rotation a cradle, Time Warp, giggle.
EDIT: My list (and deck) is missing a reflecting pool, I find that funny. I'll correct my deck when I get home.
I've had a better hand than this now...
Hand (6): mox diamond, flying men, treetop scout, forest, island, crop rotation.
T1: (1v1, no draw) mox (pitch island), forest. Play scout, Play flying men.
T2: (drew unified will). crop rotate forest -> gaea's cradle, play edric, hit for 2, draw an island and a Spell Pierce.
I mean, really? Is there any better option than this? I guess if you kept a 7 card hand, and drew the spell pierce first so you had island and spell pierce open before the attack, but I mean... This deck can be downright scary.
T1: Island, Mox Diamond (Discard Forest), Cloud Sprite, Skyshroud Ranger
T2: Forest, Crop Rotate for cradle, Cloud of Faeries, Edric, Swing for 2 with mox diamond open
Basically Cloud of Faeries lets you do crazy things with Cradle. I've also had four attackers down by turn 2, ready to swing with a turn 3 Edric, which is generally amazing.
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I just don't have one yet. Erayo and Wooded Foothills are the two cards I'm missing before I call the deck complete. (although Elvish Spirit Guide still wants a spot.) Reclaim is also a contender, but would replace Knowledge Exploitation, as much fun as it is, I think the reclaim would be stronger.
The foothills obviously replaces a forest, and I think Erayo might actually replace an island. I've had a few low-land hands (we do need to get to 3 mana...) but I've also been flooded enough times to make me think that 36 land and the chrome mox and lotus petal will be enough.
My thoughts on the ziggurat is that I rarely worry about later mana for timewalks; however, the first turn needs a land that can tap for either color for early dorks and Edric. It may be unnecessary and extra gravy, the chances of not having a dual land is already slim considering the fetch package I run, but I figure I can try it.
I need help figuring out what to cut for Vine Dryad
I am also now considering Land Grant as a potential extra land replacement. If I have a land, fine, if I don't, free dual!
Maybe add in something like Opposition for some reach? How do you deal with opponents in the mid-late game? You can't possibly counter everything, even with a full grip, and chipping away 1 damage at a time seems too slow to kill multiple people.
Misdirection might be another option for a 'free' counterspell of sorts. Might be a little narrow but Merchant Scroll is a cheap tutor.
Probably don't need more card draw but Glimpse of Nature is/was used in cheap-creature combo decks. That's all I can think of for now...
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My apologies, children, for I am afraid I cannot save you all.
If I was building this less competitive, I would run them, sadly Thada and Invisible Stalker are too slow for this deck.
Maybe add in something like Opposition for some reach? How do you deal with opponents in the mid-late game? You can't possibly counter everything, even with a full grip, and chipping away 1 damage at a time seems too slow to kill multiple people.
mid-game? late-game? what are those? This deck never makes it that far. 90% of the time you kill before that happens. 5% of the time you die before that happens, because you knocked everyone really low. After that, games don't last too much longer. 5% of the time you go late game, you drop edric and a dude, re-build your hand while using Edric as a political tool, wait for someone to clear the board, then drop 3-4 weenies at once. If they live a round, re-play Edric and take off again. Also, don't write off 1 damage so quickly. Having only 4 guys out and Edric is only 6 damage, which is the same as a Primeval Titan, and few people have a titan out on turn 3 or 4. Your army of 1/1's starts doing about 10-15 damage a turn from turn 5, which puts a rather serious clock on people.
Misdirection might be another option for a 'free' counterspell of sorts. Might be a little narrow but Merchant Scroll is a cheap tutor.
Sadly, misdirection is a little to strict for this deck. Free is nice, but it doesn't stop wraths, lightmine field, or O-Stone. The Scroll is sadly too expensive for this deck (it gets really funny saying this repeatedly, honestly the best part about writing up this deck online), but would remain good for budget builds.
Probably don't need more card draw but Glimpse of Nature is/was used in cheap-creature combo decks. That's all I can think of for now...
Could be good, not really needed. Might be a good backup plan, especially in budget builds as an answer to Edric getting tucked. Especially with the tutors.
Testing, it has come up a few times, every time I've played it I have had a creature to play every time, so it's been useful there and hasn't been a land that can't play a counter. It hasn't ever prevented an extra turn effect when needed, but that said I had a Cradle out by then, usually, and at that point it usually taps for blue creatures, so could probably be an island. Again, I think the positive of it is that if it's your turn 1 land, you can play either creature, but again, rarely have I ever had a problem with a turn 1 land. The drawback that I can see is that if it is one of your early lands, it can hold off on dropping tanglewire which single handedly won a game for me last night. I think the benefits slightly outweigh the drawback, but I guess its to the point of being personal call.
My Hinterland Harbor should be en-route, so when it arrives:
-1 island
+1 Hinterland harbor
Once again, my concern is that this isn't a land you can drop turn one, but at this point, that hardly matters.
---
Had a game last night, where I had to mulligan to 5 due to not liking my early lands (neither could produce turn 1). Ended up mullaganing into a Gemstone Cavern (and a hand full of land...) giving me a 3 card opening hand, 1 memnite and 2 sac lands. Turn 1 was land, and nothing to do with it because memnite was free. Turn 2 Edric, win, essentially. Chain of Vapor allowed me to bounce a tanglewire, then sac my own island to bounce an oblivion stone, and on my turn replay my wire to lock them out for the win. Beautiful. Vapor and Turbulent Dreams both earned permanent deck spots last night, being key in 2 games.
(games were a bit harder than normal too...) Kaalia and Arcum in 3 player, giving me no forestwalk, and them each a cheap flyer that cheats counterspells. Arcum pulled out tax effects to make me not attck him as much, and Kaalia dropped the angel that prevents you from playing spells if you attacked, which is REALLY annoying. I had to tutor for my snap to deal with it, which let me draw into turbulent dreams for the next turn.
Mistmeadow witch + training grounds proved obnoxious as well, since I couldn't easily use the bounce effects, and I was concerned about a blink on Edric, although i had a sizable enough army to carry the game at that point... about 12-14 damage in weenies.
Sadly, I think the Beastmaster Ascension is almost overkill in this deck, although it does give us an easier time if we get delayed a bit. My last 3 games were all won without it. Notorious Throng usually got the concessions, but wasn't even necessary either. The amount of damage you can put out in 1/1's early is strictly impressive.
Sadly, I think the Beastmaster Ascension is almost overkill in this deck, although it does give us an easier time if we get delayed a bit. My last 3 games were all won without it. Notorious Throng usually got the concessions, but wasn't even necessary either. The amount of damage you can put out in 1/1's early is strictly impressive.
I've been noticing this as well. I'm not to the point where I'm cutting it just yet but it's been falling out of favor with me.
Exactly. It still has a spot in the deck, especially for later game viability, but it's hardly necessary, and I don't even miss it not being out. I never really feel that it's the card I need to win, but more of a, "hmm, I just won three games and never played the ascension... weird."
I'm still waiting for my vine dryad to arrive, as well. I just can't wait for the flash it on your turn, T1 Edric, draw a card play. Massive card disadvantage to pull it off, but it'd be impressive as all heck. It would be easier if I also added in elvish spirit guide. Problem is that the deck is so tight I'm having problems even finding a spot for the dryad. I think you're right on the martyr for it, Donald, but I've started eyeing Exploration as well. It only gives early game accel if you have the lands to go with it, and I try to not need so many early game lands. I've never been sad to draw it later, as it helps get more sources of blue out for counters, but I wonder if its actually helpful, or just a cool 'more' card.
Losing another land might mean that I need to mulligan a bit more, but since the spirit guide can add mana as well, I think the corner cases are still low enough. It's an extra mana when I need it, and an extra creature when I need that. I think its the right call. It can alsos help on more explosive starts (as with the lotus petal; and can also power out my TURN 1 EDRIC with vine dryad! Oh heck yeah!
I like how Elvish Spirit Guide lets you hold up just a U but still threaten a 1U hard counter. Nice added utility and it's also pretty good with all the card draw to help you dump your hand. I've even hardcast it a couple times with extra Priest of Titania mana. Let me know how Vine Dryad plays out, I wanted to test it on MTGO but it's not available online yet.
So far I've just been doing random tests, and mostly I've gotten it late and dropped it with cradle mana. One test had a rather nice start with a mox diamond in to opener, so I dropper a curse catcher and GSZ into arbor on turn 1, flashed in the vine dryad eot, and dropped edric turn 2, for 3 cards, which I felt was pretty cool.
Now that I am running 5 different mana cheats (mox diam, chrome, lotus petal, spirit guide, caverns) I cant wait to get 2 of them in the opener with the dryad for a turn 1 Edric with card draw! I know it's a ridiculously low chance, but I'm still hoping!
The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Did I mention I could somewhere? O_O If so I need to fix it...
Not really aiming for a T1 edric, just amused that it's possible...
Ah, do you mean?
Losing another land might mean that I need to mulligan a bit more, but since the spirit guide can add mana as well, I think the corner cases are still low enough. It's an extra mana when I need it, and an extra creature when I need that. I think its the right call. It can alsos help on more explosive starts (as with the lotus petal; and can also power out my TURN 1 EDRIC with vine dryad! Oh heck yeah!
Vine Dryad is very different from Dryad Arbor =D
If you're not first, you can flash in the Vine Dryad EoT, and have it attack turn 1. It requires a rather ridiculous hand...
Vine Dryad + green card + Mox/Caverns + card for mox/caverns + Land + petal/ESG/Mox/Caverns + ???
Best would be to have the land be an island, and the last card be a daze. I doubt that it would be worth it, but it would be funny to have the draw engine active turn 1.
There was discussion on Donald's list about the clamp... It's a decent tool to dig for Edric if he gets tucked, but the general realization is that if you're needing that, then you've probably lost already anyways; it's better to just keep him protected.
What do you think about Druids' Repository(Avacyn Restored Spoiler)? Three mana for mana acceleration seems steep in this deck, but when it interacts this way it seems like an explosive catalyst. Thoughts?
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Retired from MTGS.
Thanks for the great times and great trades, guys.
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StaffI first built Edric around a bunch of cheap unblockable and shadow creatures. The deck certainly got the card advantage down right, but was missing a bit in the threats and answers department. I put Edric on the side shelf for a while, trying to think of improvements. I realized I wanted more cheap creatures, but I was simultaneously concerned about the threat the deck was radiating, and its lack of defense or answers.. That's when I saw the decks posted by Donald, ISBPathfinder, and tedv. They had created a finely tuned deck, that was still improving. Their answer to the lack of defense? More offense.
An EDH deck where I could run Scryb Sprites, as a wincon? Yes, please! It took a long time to put together this deck. I was excited about the prospect, and bounced ideas off of all three other players to get experienced feedback as I slowly gathered the cards. Even with their help, I ended up with far more cards than I could run. Many had to be cut, and many will remain on the sidelines to see if the main lineup shows any weaknesses.
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
CREATURES - 34
- Zero - (free) - 2
1 Memnite
1 Vine Dryad
1 Elvish Pioneer
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Arbor Elf
1 Wirewood Symbiote - also protection
1 Treetop Scout
1 Scryb Sprites
1 Flying Men
1 Cloud Pirates
1 Zephyr Sprite
1 Cloud Sprite
1 Mothdust Changeling
1 Veil of Birds
1 Jace's Phatasm
1 Zodiac Rabbit - forest
1 Jukai Messenger - forest
1 Shanodin Dryads - forest
1 Willow Dryad - forest
1 Marsh Boa - swamp
1 Greyscaled Gharial - island
1 Merfolk Spy - island
1 Sylvan Safekeeper - protection
1 Orochi Leafcaller - mana filter
1 Cloud of Faeries - essentially free
1 Eladamri, Lord of Leaves
1 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1 Elvish Champion
1 Elvish Spirit Guide - (ramp)
1 Wonder
1 Cursecatcher
1 Spiketail Hatchling
1 Spellstutter Sprite
RAMP - 7
1 mana crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Exploration
1 Crop Rotation
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Abjure
1 Mana Leak
1 Daze - free
1 Unified Will
1 Negate
1 Delay
1 Arcane Denial
1 Voidslime
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will - free
OTHER SPELL - 8
1 Noxious Revival
1 Reclaim
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Snap
1 Chain of Vapors
1 Turbulent Dreams - deal with resolved stuff.
1 Tangle Wire - tempo
1 Beastmaster Ascension - assisted wincon
TURNS - 4
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Time Warp
1 Notorious Throng
1 Walk the Aeons
LAND - 34
1 Gemstone Caverns - turn 1 tempo
1 Tropical Island - all
1 Breeding Pool - all
1 Command Tower - all
1 City of Brass - all
1 Tarnished Citadel - all
1 Yavimaya Coast - all
1 Thran Quarry - all
1 Gemstone Mine - all
1 Exotic Orchard - opponents
1 Flooded Grove - needs other
1 Reflecting pool - needs other
1 Hinterland Harbor - all
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Forest
7 Island
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 null rod - shut stuff down
1 torpor orb - turn stuff off
1 Damping Matrix - shut stuff down
1 Submerge - free bounce
1 Steely Resolve - extra shroud source
1 Man-o'-war - bounce, in creature form
1 boomerang - the original bounce
1 stifle - stop annoying abilities on cards that have managed to resolve. Cheaper trickbind.
1 trickbind - stifle, with split second
1 spiketail drakeling - originally cut from deck, still a good living counter. Also is more of an early investment for later protection. May re-enter.
1 Viridian Zealot - more expensive, but an answer on a stick. Elf.
1 phantasmal image - answers problem generals.
1 Skyshroud cutter
1 Allosaurus Rider
1 Vine Dryad
1 Rushwood Legate
1 Saprazzan Legate
1 Ancient Ziggurat - good turn 1, only for creatures, but thats workable
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Eternal Witness
1 Seed Time - probably good in a counter heavy zone?
wanted cards (0) until deck is complete
? Forsaken City
? Lion's Eye Diamond - I can see this making explosive starts, and also being extremely risky. Perhaps if more free creatures were included, this would be better.
Abjure vs Familiar's Ruse - I like the lower cost of abjure, but the color restriction is actually somewhat annoying, though has yet to fail me. The ruse is nicer as it allows you to regain your attacker potentially, and can be used to positive effect with cloud of faeries and elvish pioneer.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffOrochi Leafcaller in
1 Fatespinner out
I may also shift my land count.
+1 island, -1 forest. I'll hold off for more testing though. It may just come down to the play decision of, in case of a choice, play the island.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffOn Abjure: There are a lot more green permanents in the deck than blue, at roughly 23 green, 12 blue, but so far I haven't had a problem being unable to use it when I draw it, but I've been goldfishing so far. Since I play paper magic though, I'll hold off on an 'official' comment until tonight, after my games tonight.
Sad to hear about the veil online; I hadn't thought of that problem. Once its down though, it looks to be solid wrath protection, and then all you have to worry about are o-stones and pernicious deeds. If I find I don't have enough blue permanents for abjure, it'll get changed for an envelop, probably. Although, I do seem to be running slightly heavier counterspell count than you, though I am missing Kira and Erayo.
I'm still missing 2 fetchlands (wooded foothills and Flooded Strand), but I'm going to see how they play out before jumping to get those asap. The way I see it though, is it's a free copy of tropical island, thins my deck, and could be a dryad too. Speking of, I keep forgetting to count Dryad Arbor for my cradle.
So far, after my inital goldfish test, I have been really liking the Orochi Leafcaller to be able to drop out the 1 mana cost blue guys. Tonight will be the real test for him.
All that said, since I play paper magic, in a more casual environment, I don't see myself getting around to playing this deck too much tonight, unless a few special people are there; it might not be as fun for others.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I'm also of the opinion that in a commander deck where Cloud Pirates is awesome there are no ridiculous suggestions :P.
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Staff+1 Flooded Strand
+1 Gemstone Mine
-1 Spiketail Drakeling (double blue is annoying)
+1 Noxious revival
Mainly did 1v1's while waiting for games, made a lot of play errors which I just need to get used to with the deck. I find myself counter light on some draws, and counter heavy on others, but thats randomization for you. I think I need to alter my playstyle a bit between them and not overextend too much without counter back up (despite really wanting to).
I didn't really get to test the Veil yet, it didn't come up during my games, so it'll sit a while and see where it goes.
Orochi Leafcaller Gets an MVP award in one game, where he let me cast a time warp with counter back up off a gaea's cradle and no other untapped source of blue; as well as just letting the cradle empty off anything I draw. ever.
The fetchlands all stay in the deck, I will be acquiring a wooded foothills soon for this. There is ONE game I did not start with a tropical island on turn one. I had to settle for turn 2. Opening hand: Breeding Pool, forest, island, arbor elf, spiketail hatchling, and a timewarp.Turn 1 draw, cloud of faeries. Turn 2 draw was a misty rainforest for the tropical island.
T1: breeding pool, arbor elf.
T2: misty-> tropical, cloud of faeries, spiketail hatchling, attack for 1.
T3: (drew a one drop) Edric, hit for 3, draw 3. giggle.
T4: crop rotation a cradle, Time Warp, giggle.
EDIT: My list (and deck) is missing a reflecting pool, I find that funny. I'll correct my deck when I get home.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffHand (6): mox diamond, flying men, treetop scout, forest, island, crop rotation.
T1: (1v1, no draw) mox (pitch island), forest. Play scout, Play flying men.
T2: (drew unified will). crop rotate forest -> gaea's cradle, play edric, hit for 2, draw an island and a Spell Pierce.
I mean, really? Is there any better option than this? I guess if you kept a 7 card hand, and drew the spell pierce first so you had island and spell pierce open before the attack, but I mean... This deck can be downright scary.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I notice that you dont run Erayo, Soratami Ascendant in your list. Do you just not like how he functions or is there another reason he isnt in here?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
T1: Island, Mox Diamond (Discard Forest), Cloud Sprite, Skyshroud Ranger
T2: Forest, Crop Rotate for cradle, Cloud of Faeries, Edric, Swing for 2 with mox diamond open
Basically Cloud of Faeries lets you do crazy things with Cradle. I've also had four attackers down by turn 2, ready to swing with a turn 3 Edric, which is generally amazing.
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StaffThe foothills obviously replaces a forest, and I think Erayo might actually replace an island. I've had a few low-land hands (we do need to get to 3 mana...) but I've also been flooded enough times to make me think that 36 land and the chrome mox and lotus petal will be enough.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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Staff-island
-forest
-skyshroud ranger
-Teferi's Veil
+Wooded Foothills - completed fetches
+Erayo, Soratami Ascendant - about darn time!
+Chain of Vapor - bounce
+Turbulent Dreams - bounce
Still want to add in Vine Dryad and I want to try out the Ancient Zigurat.
My thoughts on the ziggurat is that I rarely worry about later mana for timewalks; however, the first turn needs a land that can tap for either color for early dorks and Edric. It may be unnecessary and extra gravy, the chances of not having a dual land is already slim considering the fetch package I run, but I figure I can try it.
I need help figuring out what to cut for Vine Dryad
I am also now considering Land Grant as a potential extra land replacement. If I have a land, fine, if I don't, free dual!
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Maybe add in something like Opposition for some reach? How do you deal with opponents in the mid-late game? You can't possibly counter everything, even with a full grip, and chipping away 1 damage at a time seems too slow to kill multiple people.
Misdirection might be another option for a 'free' counterspell of sorts. Might be a little narrow but Merchant Scroll is a cheap tutor.
Probably don't need more card draw but Glimpse of Nature is/was used in cheap-creature combo decks. That's all I can think of for now...
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Staffmid-game? late-game? what are those? This deck never makes it that far. 90% of the time you kill before that happens. 5% of the time you die before that happens, because you knocked everyone really low. After that, games don't last too much longer. 5% of the time you go late game, you drop edric and a dude, re-build your hand while using Edric as a political tool, wait for someone to clear the board, then drop 3-4 weenies at once. If they live a round, re-play Edric and take off again. Also, don't write off 1 damage so quickly. Having only 4 guys out and Edric is only 6 damage, which is the same as a Primeval Titan, and few people have a titan out on turn 3 or 4. Your army of 1/1's starts doing about 10-15 damage a turn from turn 5, which puts a rather serious clock on people.
Sadly, misdirection is a little to strict for this deck. Free is nice, but it doesn't stop wraths, lightmine field, or O-Stone. The Scroll is sadly too expensive for this deck (it gets really funny saying this repeatedly, honestly the best part about writing up this deck online), but would remain good for budget builds.
Could be good, not really needed. Might be a good backup plan, especially in budget builds as an answer to Edric getting tucked. Especially with the tutors.
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-1 island
+1 Ancient Ziggurat
Testing, it has come up a few times, every time I've played it I have had a creature to play every time, so it's been useful there and hasn't been a land that can't play a counter. It hasn't ever prevented an extra turn effect when needed, but that said I had a Cradle out by then, usually, and at that point it usually taps for blue creatures, so could probably be an island. Again, I think the positive of it is that if it's your turn 1 land, you can play either creature, but again, rarely have I ever had a problem with a turn 1 land. The drawback that I can see is that if it is one of your early lands, it can hold off on dropping tanglewire which single handedly won a game for me last night. I think the benefits slightly outweigh the drawback, but I guess its to the point of being personal call.
My Hinterland Harbor should be en-route, so when it arrives:
-1 island
+1 Hinterland harbor
Once again, my concern is that this isn't a land you can drop turn one, but at this point, that hardly matters.
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Had a game last night, where I had to mulligan to 5 due to not liking my early lands (neither could produce turn 1). Ended up mullaganing into a Gemstone Cavern (and a hand full of land...) giving me a 3 card opening hand, 1 memnite and 2 sac lands. Turn 1 was land, and nothing to do with it because memnite was free. Turn 2 Edric, win, essentially. Chain of Vapor allowed me to bounce a tanglewire, then sac my own island to bounce an oblivion stone, and on my turn replay my wire to lock them out for the win. Beautiful. Vapor and Turbulent Dreams both earned permanent deck spots last night, being key in 2 games.
(games were a bit harder than normal too...) Kaalia and Arcum in 3 player, giving me no forestwalk, and them each a cheap flyer that cheats counterspells. Arcum pulled out tax effects to make me not attck him as much, and Kaalia dropped the angel that prevents you from playing spells if you attacked, which is REALLY annoying. I had to tutor for my snap to deal with it, which let me draw into turbulent dreams for the next turn.
Mistmeadow witch + training grounds proved obnoxious as well, since I couldn't easily use the bounce effects, and I was concerned about a blink on Edric, although i had a sizable enough army to carry the game at that point... about 12-14 damage in weenies.
Sadly, I think the Beastmaster Ascension is almost overkill in this deck, although it does give us an easier time if we get delayed a bit. My last 3 games were all won without it. Notorious Throng usually got the concessions, but wasn't even necessary either. The amount of damage you can put out in 1/1's early is strictly impressive.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I've been noticing this as well. I'm not to the point where I'm cutting it just yet but it's been falling out of favor with me.
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StaffI'm still waiting for my vine dryad to arrive, as well. I just can't wait for the flash it on your turn, T1 Edric, draw a card play. Massive card disadvantage to pull it off, but it'd be impressive as all heck. It would be easier if I also added in elvish spirit guide. Problem is that the deck is so tight I'm having problems even finding a spot for the dryad. I think you're right on the martyr for it, Donald, but I've started eyeing Exploration as well. It only gives early game accel if you have the lands to go with it, and I try to not need so many early game lands. I've never been sad to draw it later, as it helps get more sources of blue out for counters, but I wonder if its actually helpful, or just a cool 'more' card.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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Staff-1 island
+1 Vine Dryad
+1 elvish spirit guide
Losing another land might mean that I need to mulligan a bit more, but since the spirit guide can add mana as well, I think the corner cases are still low enough. It's an extra mana when I need it, and an extra creature when I need that. I think its the right call. It can alsos help on more explosive starts (as with the lotus petal; and can also power out my TURN 1 EDRIC with vine dryad! Oh heck yeah!
Now I'm considering land grant... wheeeee
also, where the heck are my hinterland harbors?!? I hate waiting for mail.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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StaffNow that I am running 5 different mana cheats (mox diam, chrome, lotus petal, spirit guide, caverns) I cant wait to get 2 of them in the opener with the dryad for a turn 1 Edric with card draw! I know it's a ridiculously low chance, but I'm still hoping!
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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Staff+Hinterland Harbor (Finally arrived! About darn time!)
-forest
+island - starting to aim to get foil back in the deck.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
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Staff-Thought Nibbler
+Mana Crypt
Disgusting sauce.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I wouldn't worry so much about turn 1 Edric. It's a lot better to focus on turn 2 Edric.
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StaffNot really aiming for a T1 edric, just amused that it's possible...
Ah, do you mean?
Vine Dryad is very different from Dryad Arbor =D
If you're not first, you can flash in the Vine Dryad EoT, and have it attack turn 1. It requires a rather ridiculous hand...
Vine Dryad + green card + Mox/Caverns + card for mox/caverns + Land + petal/ESG/Mox/Caverns + ???
Best would be to have the land be an island, and the last card be a daze. I doubt that it would be worth it, but it would be funny to have the draw engine active turn 1.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
I should add that I love the concept of this deck. It's just... phenomenal.
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StaffRetired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek