okay. so i played this deck list again last night. and i have to say, it is so much fun to play. but so boring to watch someone else play.
but i have say, even missing some cards, it plays like a dream.
it seemed that after the first game though, every hate spell and every attack came straight at my face untill i was dead. i didnt really mind though. this deck can be a jerk sometimes
Where's Aluren? When you have Cloudstone Curio with Glimpse or Primal, you just draw your deck. At that point you can just do what you want including dropping your Concordant Crossroads for whatever win you feel like.
This is the deck I didn't build when I was working on my Azusa/Broccoli purely because it plays by itself in the corner, occasionally dealing with board-sweepers but otherwise very non-interactive. If that's what you're looking for, cool.
Incidently, you should probably look at a couple more green creatures with Flash to search up things you need at instant speed like Mystic Snake: Scryb Ranger & Caller of the Claw come to mind as having useful additional abilities either for perpetuating your combo or for recovering from board wipes.
Where's Aluren? When you have Cloudstone Curio with Glimpse or Primal, you just draw your deck. At that point you can just do what you want including dropping your Concordant Crossroads for whatever win you feel like.
This is the deck I didn't build when I was working on my Azusa/Broccoli purely because it plays by itself in the corner, occasionally dealing with board-sweepers but otherwise very non-interactive. If that's what you're looking for, cool.
Incidently, you should probably look at a couple more green creatures with Flash to search up things you need at instant speed like Mystic Snake: Scryb Ranger & Caller of the Claw come to mind as having useful additional abilities either for perpetuating your combo or for recovering from board wipes.
Aluren was in the original build, as were several other of the traditional "instant win" cards. Most of these were cut because they are simply unnecessary -- once Vig starts rolling, he pretty much wins the game by himself. It's great to have a few backup plans (which we do, from Intruder Alarm to Curio to Umbral Mantle to Natural Order), but too many of these dilute the deck. Aluren was among the least useful.
Like Goarath said, the deck can be extraordinarily non-interactive, but that's not something I'm really concerned about. The original build was a result of brainstorming for one of the competitive MTGS 1v1 tournaments, so "fun" wasn't really a consideration -- it was all about speed and consistency. If you or your playgroup are totally against it for that reason, that's fine, but personally I'm happy this engine is humming as well as it is. It's just cool to see what sort of stuff can be done in this awesome format.
I've been thinking about Caller of the Claw for some time now, and at the moment I'm undecided. Scryb Ranger looks like sweet tech, though. So many ideas, so little space!
Quote from omGeo »
I didn't read the rest of the posts, but not sure if these were considered:
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Novijen, Heart of Progress
They may be either overkill or a hindrance.
The fact Oran-Reef comes into play tapped is a big deal (this deck is all about the early turns), but Novijen might be good enough. The mana here is solid, so we can probably afford something like this. While we're at it, why aren't we playing Wirewood Lodge? And is Elvish Guidance any good?
Also, I thought everyone would like to know that this deck still went off against my Gaddock Teeg deck today with Aven Mindcensor in play and Sun Titan + Strip Mine online. It slowed the deck down, but Vig and Skyshroud Poacher still generated enough advantage to get there. Wrath of God or bust, I guess.
EDIT: Updated the OP with the build I'm currently playing. As you can see, the deck now is a bit more flexible in that it has a variety of gameplans. The biggest cuts are Glamerdye and Sleight of Mind, but adding Mystical Tutor mitigates some of the losses. Worldly Tutor is now gone if favor of Green Sun's Zenith. I'm also testing Wild Pair -- it's really unclear if this is worthwhile.
d0su, i finished play testing your old list.......you might want to keep glamerdye. it ended up being useful thanks to retrace.
the deck went 18-2 . the 2 losses were:
LD- just wrecks this deck
pheldegriff group hug- O.o, im still suprised. it was 1 game and he killed the whole table with Hive Mind and a Pact of Negation
I wonder, would Food Chain be worthy of consideration? It's basically extra mana for when you need it most.
Hmmm, now that's actually a cool idea! I haven't been very happy with Wild Pair, so I'll replace it and give Food Chain a go. Mystic Snake is one possible cut.
I'd also like to try out Ezuri, Renegade Leader as a possible out to board wipes that doubles as a wincon. Could be good.
Quote from Goarath »
wild pair seems goob. but by the time you play it, you should be winning already. but wirewood lodge has made my cut
A note on Wild Pair:
As the deck stands now, Wild Pair is just awkward. It costs a huge sum of mana to cast and the Wild Pair chains are extremely awkward -- it just doesn't seem worth it, especially since it's just another backup plan.
Don't get me wrong -- it can win games from time to time, but IDK if the games where it is essential to victory outweigh the majority of games where it sits in you hand while you combo out by other means. I suppose you could take it to the next level and tailor your creature base to optimize the use of Vig, Skyshroud Poacher, and Wild Pair, but I simply don't have the energy to go through all the permutations. I'd just as soon cut Wild Pair for something more immediately useful.
Quote from Macius »
d0su, i finished play testing your old list.......you might want to keep glamerdye. it ended up being useful thanks to retrace.
the deck went 18-2 . the 2 losses were:
LD- just wrecks this deck
pheldegriff group hug- O.o, im still suprised. it was 1 game and he killed the whole table with Hive Mind and a Pact of Negation
Dude, that's awesome! Were you playing against guys from your playgroup or against online opponents? My findings indicate that, on the surface, this deck would be similar to Dredge or Affinity -- fast and lethal against unprepared opponents, but easily hated out when people actually try. When the next MTGS 1v1 tournament rolls around, I'll give it a whirl just for kicks. If Hermit Druid gets banned, a turn 5 kill might be acceptable.
Kahmal, Fist of Krosa could be an interesting alternative to Ezuri. He doesn't regenerate your creatures, but most wraths in the format aren't regeneratable anyways. He instead keeps them from wrathing by threatening multiple LD spells if they do.
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So, I've been building a similar deck. Dosan the Falling Leaf is pretty much a champ. You can tutor him out and then combo off unmolested. Either that or he eats a Counterspell, but I feel like he's better than Gaea's Herald, since he protects your spells as well.
Kahmal, Fist of Krosa could be an interesting alternative to Ezuri. He doesn't regenerate your creatures, but most wraths in the format aren't regeneratable anyways. He instead keeps them from wrathing by threatening multiple LD spells if they do.
That's an interesting idea. Ezuri is cheaper to cast and has a useful creature type, but Kamahl is more versatile. It's probably six one way and half a dozen the other, but I do know wouldn't run both. When I find the room, I'll probably go with Ezuri personally. Another option here is Sylvan Safekeeper, which is looking better and better every day.
Quote from Quietest Spike »
So, I've been building a similar deck. Dosan the Falling Leaf is pretty much a champ. You can tutor him out and then combo off unmolested. Either that or he eats a Counterspell, but I feel like he's better than Gaea's Herald, since he protects your spells as well.
Ban-Ki Moon and Carlos suggested Dosan on mtgcommander.net, and he seems promising. Here's what I'm going with:
+ Food Chain
Food Chain has been pretty good in testing, being useful more often than not. It allows me to cast something big and awkward like Sages of the Anima without running out of mana down the road, it lets me ramp into Regal Force easily and still have the mana to play those cards. So far, it's just an all-around better version of Aluren.
Dosan the Falling Leaf
could be a useful silver bullet against counterspells (obviously) and instant-speed removal in response to Mind Bend. We still lose to Wrath, but maybe this way we will lose only to Wrath.
I'm also cutting Mystic Snake ("WHAT NO MYSTIC SNAKE IN VIG ARE YOU CRAZY") because he's clunky as all get out and Venser can do his job just as effectively or better 90% of the time.
I can't figure out what to cut for Ezuri/Safekeeper, though. I'm not cutting any more mana dorks because those are absolutely crucial. Sages of the Anima is one option, but it's extraordinarily fun and very good at times. Maybe Umbral Mantle, since it's usually just wishful thinking?
Why don't you use Drift of Phantasms = you can fetch him with Momir, get intruder alarm via transmute and go crazy...
There are to more other blue transmute creatures out there, and even one very handy spell = muddle the mixture
If you check a few pages back, you'll see that I was playing Drift of Phantasms initially. I would typically tutor it up with Vig and use it to transmute for Cloudstone Curio mid-combo to actually go infinite and win from there. However, I realized that I can instead just tutor for Tidespout Tyrant and do the same thing.
Outside of the main combo, Drift has some uses, but it is often too slow to work the way I want it to. I have several alternate paths to victory besides the standard Heritage Druid plan, and (much like Aluren) Drift of Phantasms was a bit clunkier than the others. I'm afraid Muddle the Mixture would share a similar fate. Besides, does it actually get anything useful besides Priest of Titania?
I will post my updated list after T8 of the current 1v1 tournament is revealed. I don't want to spill the beans just yet!
so i built this deck a long long time a ago. when it was first posted. and i still haven't changed much. maybe a little budget, seeing as how i cant afford a Time Twister. and even with the barest minimum of the combo pieces it still pulls out a turn 4-6 win just about every time. seems to lose to board wiper decks though. damn mono black.
I just played the deck for the first time. It is difficult to play, but even so I was amazed at it's sheer power. Turn 6 combo (could have been turn 5 or maybe 4 but I messed it up), very fun to play.
Great deck! I have a more budget-friendly version of this deck and I got some great ideas from this thread. My only suggestion is my build uses Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Glen Elendra Archmage with good results. They're great to tutor for to protect my creatures from wraths when I can't swing for lethal the turn I go off.
Great deck! I have a more budget-friendly version of this deck and I got some great ideas from this thread. My only suggestion is my build uses Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Glen Elendra Archmage with good results. They're great to tutor for to protect my creatures from wraths when I can't swing for lethal the turn I go off.
Hey, I must have missed this comment a couple months ago. Sorry!
I'm glad you are getting good mileage out of something similar! I haven't worked on this deck since 2011, but around that time Fluxuate ported the concept to Duel Commander (then "French 1v1") and now "doing the Vig" it is basically a known quantity. If they unban Painter's Servant, I might revisit the idea. Let me know if you make any breakthroughs!
Hey all, recently built momir vig and have been liking it and this thread has given me some decent ideas to improve it.
With the most recent set out (Ravnica Allegiance) what are your thoughts about adding Prime Speaker Vanifar to the list as a way to speed along assembly?
Hey all, recently built momir vig and have been liking it and this thread has given me some decent ideas to improve it.
With the most recent set out (Ravnica Allegiance) what are your thoughts about adding Prime Speaker Vanifar to the list as a way to speed along assembly?
Hey, very late reply, sorry about that. I don’t monitor many of my threads here anymore, unfortunately.
If you (or anyone reading this thread) are looking for ideas to keep the list current, the Magical Hack elf combo concept has become a thing in cEDH in recent years. There are sone good resources you can check out over on TappedOut and Reddit, and with Painter’s Servant now unbanned, it should be stronger than ever.
Thanks to all that helped get this off the ground.
but i have say, even missing some cards, it plays like a dream.
it seemed that after the first game though, every hate spell and every attack came straight at my face untill i was dead. i didnt really mind though. this deck can be a jerk sometimes
This is the deck I didn't build when I was working on my Azusa/Broccoli purely because it plays by itself in the corner, occasionally dealing with board-sweepers but otherwise very non-interactive. If that's what you're looking for, cool.
Incidently, you should probably look at a couple more green creatures with Flash to search up things you need at instant speed like Mystic Snake: Scryb Ranger & Caller of the Claw come to mind as having useful additional abilities either for perpetuating your combo or for recovering from board wipes.
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
Novijen, Heart of Progress
They may be either overkill or a hindrance.
Aluren was in the original build, as were several other of the traditional "instant win" cards. Most of these were cut because they are simply unnecessary -- once Vig starts rolling, he pretty much wins the game by himself. It's great to have a few backup plans (which we do, from Intruder Alarm to Curio to Umbral Mantle to Natural Order), but too many of these dilute the deck. Aluren was among the least useful.
Like Goarath said, the deck can be extraordinarily non-interactive, but that's not something I'm really concerned about. The original build was a result of brainstorming for one of the competitive MTGS 1v1 tournaments, so "fun" wasn't really a consideration -- it was all about speed and consistency. If you or your playgroup are totally against it for that reason, that's fine, but personally I'm happy this engine is humming as well as it is. It's just cool to see what sort of stuff can be done in this awesome format.
I've been thinking about Caller of the Claw for some time now, and at the moment I'm undecided. Scryb Ranger looks like sweet tech, though. So many ideas, so little space!
The fact Oran-Reef comes into play tapped is a big deal (this deck is all about the early turns), but Novijen might be good enough. The mana here is solid, so we can probably afford something like this. While we're at it, why aren't we playing Wirewood Lodge? And is Elvish Guidance any good?
Also, I thought everyone would like to know that this deck still went off against my Gaddock Teeg deck today with Aven Mindcensor in play and Sun Titan + Strip Mine online. It slowed the deck down, but Vig and Skyshroud Poacher still generated enough advantage to get there. Wrath of God or bust, I guess.
EDIT: Updated the OP with the build I'm currently playing. As you can see, the deck now is a bit more flexible in that it has a variety of gameplans. The biggest cuts are Glamerdye and Sleight of Mind, but adding Mystical Tutor mitigates some of the losses. Worldly Tutor is now gone if favor of Green Sun's Zenith. I'm also testing Wild Pair -- it's really unclear if this is worthwhile.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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the deck went 18-2 . the 2 losses were:
LD- just wrecks this deck
pheldegriff group hug- O.o, im still suprised. it was 1 game and he killed the whole table with Hive Mind and a Pact of Negation
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyEDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
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BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
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Hmmm, now that's actually a cool idea! I haven't been very happy with Wild Pair, so I'll replace it and give Food Chain a go. Mystic Snake is one possible cut.
I'd also like to try out Ezuri, Renegade Leader as a possible out to board wipes that doubles as a wincon. Could be good.
A note on Wild Pair:
As the deck stands now, Wild Pair is just awkward. It costs a huge sum of mana to cast and the Wild Pair chains are extremely awkward -- it just doesn't seem worth it, especially since it's just another backup plan.
Don't get me wrong -- it can win games from time to time, but IDK if the games where it is essential to victory outweigh the majority of games where it sits in you hand while you combo out by other means. I suppose you could take it to the next level and tailor your creature base to optimize the use of Vig, Skyshroud Poacher, and Wild Pair, but I simply don't have the energy to go through all the permutations. I'd just as soon cut Wild Pair for something more immediately useful.
Dude, that's awesome! Were you playing against guys from your playgroup or against online opponents? My findings indicate that, on the surface, this deck would be similar to Dredge or Affinity -- fast and lethal against unprepared opponents, but easily hated out when people actually try. When the next MTGS 1v1 tournament rolls around, I'll give it a whirl just for kicks. If Hermit Druid gets banned, a turn 5 kill might be acceptable.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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That's an interesting idea. Ezuri is cheaper to cast and has a useful creature type, but Kamahl is more versatile. It's probably six one way and half a dozen the other, but I do know wouldn't run both. When I find the room, I'll probably go with Ezuri personally. Another option here is Sylvan Safekeeper, which is looking better and better every day.
Ban-Ki Moon and Carlos suggested Dosan on mtgcommander.net, and he seems promising. Here's what I'm going with:
+ Food Chain
Food Chain has been pretty good in testing, being useful more often than not. It allows me to cast something big and awkward like Sages of the Anima without running out of mana down the road, it lets me ramp into Regal Force easily and still have the mana to play those cards. So far, it's just an all-around better version of Aluren.
could be a useful silver bullet against counterspells (obviously) and instant-speed removal in response to Mind Bend. We still lose to Wrath, but maybe this way we will lose only to Wrath.
I'm cutting Wild Pair because it isn't good here.
I'm also cutting Mystic Snake ("WHAT NO MYSTIC SNAKE IN VIG ARE YOU CRAZY") because he's clunky as all get out and Venser can do his job just as effectively or better 90% of the time.
I can't figure out what to cut for Ezuri/Safekeeper, though. I'm not cutting any more mana dorks because those are absolutely crucial. Sages of the Anima is one option, but it's extraordinarily fun and very good at times. Maybe Umbral Mantle, since it's usually just wishful thinking?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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If you check a few pages back, you'll see that I was playing Drift of Phantasms initially. I would typically tutor it up with Vig and use it to transmute for Cloudstone Curio mid-combo to actually go infinite and win from there. However, I realized that I can instead just tutor for Tidespout Tyrant and do the same thing.
Outside of the main combo, Drift has some uses, but it is often too slow to work the way I want it to. I have several alternate paths to victory besides the standard Heritage Druid plan, and (much like Aluren) Drift of Phantasms was a bit clunkier than the others. I'm afraid Muddle the Mixture would share a similar fate. Besides, does it actually get anything useful besides Priest of Titania?
I will post my updated list after T8 of the current 1v1 tournament is revealed. I don't want to spill the beans just yet!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Cards I like and think should add:
Copperhorn Scout: Repeatable Vitalize? Elf? 1cmc? Check. Check. Check.
Snakeform: Might already be in the opening list, but proved itself worth it.
Viridian Joiner: Infinite with Umbral Mantle or just cool with Ezuri, Renegade Leader and other pump spells, at worst a mana dork.
and I'm guessing you have added cavern of souls to the deck
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Teysa, Orzhov Scion
..
Azusa - Derevi - Glissa - Mizzix - Sharuum - Wanderer - Wort
I'm glad you are getting good mileage out of something similar! I haven't worked on this deck since 2011, but around that time Fluxuate ported the concept to Duel Commander (then "French 1v1") and now "doing the Vig" it is basically a known quantity. If they unban Painter's Servant, I might revisit the idea. Let me know if you make any breakthroughs!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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With the most recent set out (Ravnica Allegiance) what are your thoughts about adding Prime Speaker Vanifar to the list as a way to speed along assembly?
If you (or anyone reading this thread) are looking for ideas to keep the list current, the Magical Hack elf combo concept has become a thing in cEDH in recent years. There are sone good resources you can check out over on TappedOut and Reddit, and with Painter’s Servant now unbanned, it should be stronger than ever.
Thanks to all that helped get this off the ground.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com