This deck would get torn apart at my LGS. It's too slow, too costly, and if they control your kaalia you sit and do almost nothing.
You're another player who saw Kaalia and then stuffed a deck full of as many fat uncastable Demons/Dragons/Angels as possible, assuming that lightning greaves would be enough to ensure your victory. Uber competitive? Any card preventing you from playing Kaalia or activating her ability would completely shut down your deck alone, then you have the hordes of removal and tucking to worry about. You have almost no protection, you have zero early game, and probably pray to ramp enough mana mid-game to actually cast something.
Being very new to EDH, I was in the same boat not too long ago and thanks to the discussions on this thread the deck was overhauled and refined. I recommend reading through the entire thread and looking at all of the help that I was offered, then utilizing it yourself.
Cheers.
Once again another reason I don't get on the boards much, people's egos and assumptions are wild on here. Not only am I not a new player to EDH but have played this at many tournaments from Grand Prix events to SCG events and done fine. Now I am open to good critiques and suggestions, but obviously anything you will now say will be completely ignored.
If anyone else has un-sophomoric help with the deck I'd be glad to hear.
Once again another reason I don't get on the boards much, people's egos and assumptions are wild on here. Not only am I not a new player to EDH but have played this at many tournaments from Grand Prix events to SCG events and done fine. Now I am open to good critiques and suggestions, but obviously anything you will now say will be completely ignored.
If anyone else has un-sophomoric help with the deck I'd be glad to hear.
Next ...
That critique was not based on my ego or any assumption, it was based on competitive experience. Your deck is sub-par, and I'm sorry for assuming that someone who had so many obvious mistakes was new to the format. Most people learn as they go along, but keep your deck full of noncastable fatties and best of luck to you.
Or...the gods have given me an amazing idea....CREATE YOUR OWN THREAD AND DISCUSS THE DECK THERE!
Posting on someone else's thread declaring your deck to be an uber competitive version of theirs and then whimpering in a post after being corrected about it. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar!
As for the jank about playing in Grand Prix and SCG tourneys, not being last in a group of five players isnt considered "fine" in competitive. Commander isn't a sanctioned format, so I'm sure that any playing you did at an event was just a social pass time for other players while waiting.
In a group match if I saw your deck, I wouldn't even be concerned with you until late game after seeing your cards, hence your "survival," and in a 1v1 any player with a half decent deck should be able to crush that list.
Read this and think I'm a condescending douchebag or elitist all you want, someone decided to try to take my thread over by suggesting that they had an improved version of my deck, prompted that it be the new discussion for the thread, and then cried when no one acknowledged it.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
Hold me back Viper, hold me back! *lunges at Dnist*
Humor aside, please let us all return this thread into a discussion board for various Kaalia strategies and suggestions.
A question for all: What has your experience with Maze of Ith in a KotV deck been like? Do you know of any other lands that host similar effects? Are these effects worth running?
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
I don't have a Maze, or the money for one, but I'm kinda against EDIT: purchasing one for the deck if you don't have one already. The only creature you would use it on (I would imagine) is Kaalia. Same kind of idea with Reconaissance.
At least with Darksteel Plate/Aegis Angel, you can use it for other permanents if Kaalia already has some protection. Maze/Recon are pretty much only going to be used on Kaalia, while DP and AA have other uses.
M11 had a pseudo Maze reprint but it doesn't work with Kaalia, I don't think.
I have found maze of ith to be very good. Tutorable with weathered wayfarer and protects kaalia from damage. It also protects you from a lone creature (especially a voltron general without shroud) which is useful from time to time. Solid card.
I don't have a Maze, or the money for one, but I'm kinda against EDIT: purchasing one for the deck if you don't have one already. The only creature you would use it on (I would imagine) is Kaalia. Same kind of idea with Reconaissance.
At least with Darksteel Plate/Aegis Angel, you can use it for other permanents if Kaalia already has some protection. Maze/Recon are pretty much only going to be used on Kaalia, while DP and AA have other uses.
M11 had a pseudo Maze reprint but it doesn't work with Kaalia, I don't think.
I have found maze of ith to be very good. Tutorable with weathered wayfarer and protects kaalia from damage. It also protects you from a lone creature (especially a voltron general without shroud) which is useful from time to time. Solid card.
Thank you for the responses, I definitely see the value of the card but have decided not to add it to my deck list. I don't want to spend the $25 on it, and I feel my deck boasts more than enough protection as it stands to put Maze of Ith and its ilk in a redundant position, possibly even slowing down my tempo.
I did however add them to the alternative subthemes section as a recommendation to those who run smaller amounts of combat protection for their creatures.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
I for one love constructive criticism which is why i put my decklists on the chopping block for stuff like this. this list has proven to be very strong 1v1, and has gotten a bit more resilient in Multiplayer this is the decklist as it stands, Post INN rotation after a decent amount of testing.
this is the deck in its current iteration, there are a few cards on the chopping block right now that need to be looked at a little closer to tighten the list up a bit, possibly a bit more Punishment to scare people from touching Kaalia or anything else i play. otherwise the list works more than solidly for my Meta, but being the DB I am when i play this deck, i wanna make it MUCH more cuthroat but hey, at least I know I'm that douche right? lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
thanks to SGT_Chubbz for the Awesome Sig!
Standard: UGRBBurning VengeanceBRGU UWBSolar FlareBWU RGWerewolvesGR
I have found elspeth to be very good; it protects kaalia, is solid on an empty board and if you get the ultimate off you should easily win.
Enlightened tutor gets a lot of the cards you want to; sol ring, protection, swords, arena.
Tithe is another easy card advantage card which can also fetch mistveil plains for sunforger.
Weathered wayfarer is also an awesome card advantage engine, and its ability to find any land also lets you easily find utility lands like maze of ith.
I have found elspeth to be very good; it protects kaalia, is solid on an empty board and if you get the ultimate off you should easily win.
Enlightened tutor gets a lot of the cards you want to; sol ring, protection, swords, arena.
Tithe is another easy card advantage card which can also fetch mistveil plains for sunforger.
Weathered wayfarer is also an awesome card advantage engine, and its ability to find any land also lets you easily find utility lands like maze of ith.
I'll have to try out Elspeth this weekend for sure.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
What are your thoughts about using Solemn Simulacrum in a deck like this? I´ve been using it in my build since I started to modify my Heavenly Inferno precon, but sometimes I wonder if an extra mana rock or Weathered Wayfarer would be better. Opinions?
What are your thoughts about using Solemn Simulacrum in a deck like this? I´ve been using it in my build since I started to modify my Heavenly Inferno precon, but sometimes I wonder if an extra mana rock or Weathered Wayfarer would be better. Opinions?
Solemn Simulacrum doesn't do much more than slow us down. Mana rock or WW exceed it by far as a card slot.
"Common sense is not as common as one would believe."
"These kids today with their collector numbers and their newfangled tap symbol. Twenty Black Lotuses and twenty Plague Rats. Now that's real Magic."-Old Fogey
How's the deck coming along?
I'll put up my revamped Kaalia list sometime next week.
I'm going to eat a little crow here Rakdos is a cool guy; I was wrong he's now on my decklist.
As solid as this list looks, it's lacking one card that I would never contemplate building a Kaalia deck without: Torrent of Souls. I'm not sure if your meta is pretty anti-graveyard, but this is an absolute MVP in my list. I mean, look at what you get for 5 mana:
-Haste for Kaalia (and any other creatures you played/cheated out that turn)
-+2/+0 on everything that swings (except for the creature that Kaalia drops out, but c'mon... aren't those creatures big enough as it is?)
-A ressurected, most likely HUGE body to surprise your opponent with
Not to mention that with just Kaalia and ToS, as long as you've got an Angel/Dragon/Demon in hand, you just went from 0-1 creatures to at least 3, which in this deck is often times enough to completely obliterate an opponent that isn't paying attention. It's definitely worth at least looking at, if nothing else.
Your deck is pretty good but your subject " Redefining the term "permanent" " sounds extremely conceded and arrogant. You haven't broken any cards here or made some sweeping revelation in deck design.
I don't get why you say you cut Oring because people get their thing back after a board wipe, but then put in A.Angel which gives them potentially a ton of stuff back after a board wipe.
I don't get why you say you cut Oring because people get their thing back after a board wipe, but then put in A.Angel which gives them potentially a ton of stuff back after a board wipe.
It was removed for quite a long time until recently, and it has genuinely been a shining star in this deck thus far. If youre smart, you simply exile the permanents that wouldnt be devastating if they came back. Enchantments and artifacts are the primary targets, maybe a utility creature here and there but I save spot removal for the true threats. Yesterday I actually used him to exile two of my own permanents right before I cast a Cataclysm, and it resulted in an easy win after that.
Once again another reason I don't get on the boards much, people's egos and assumptions are wild on here. Not only am I not a new player to EDH but have played this at many tournaments from Grand Prix events to SCG events and done fine. Now I am open to good critiques and suggestions, but obviously anything you will now say will be completely ignored.
If anyone else has un-sophomoric help with the deck I'd be glad to hear.
Next ...
That critique was not based on my ego or any assumption, it was based on competitive experience. Your deck is sub-par, and I'm sorry for assuming that someone who had so many obvious mistakes was new to the format. Most people learn as they go along, but keep your deck full of noncastable fatties and best of luck to you.
Or...the gods have given me an amazing idea....CREATE YOUR OWN THREAD AND DISCUSS THE DECK THERE!
Posting on someone else's thread declaring your deck to be an uber competitive version of theirs and then whimpering in a post after being corrected about it. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar!
As for the jank about playing in Grand Prix and SCG tourneys, not being last in a group of five players isnt considered "fine" in competitive. Commander isn't a sanctioned format, so I'm sure that any playing you did at an event was just a social pass time for other players while waiting.
In a group match if I saw your deck, I wouldn't even be concerned with you until late game after seeing your cards, hence your "survival," and in a 1v1 any player with a half decent deck should be able to crush that list.
Read this and think I'm a condescending douchebag or elitist all you want, someone decided to try to take my thread over by suggesting that they had an improved version of my deck, prompted that it be the new discussion for the thread, and then cried when no one acknowledged it.
"Next"
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
Humor aside, please let us all return this thread into a discussion board for various Kaalia strategies and suggestions.
A question for all: What has your experience with Maze of Ith in a KotV deck been like? Do you know of any other lands that host similar effects? Are these effects worth running?
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
At least with Darksteel Plate/Aegis Angel, you can use it for other permanents if Kaalia already has some protection. Maze/Recon are pretty much only going to be used on Kaalia, while DP and AA have other uses.
M11 had a pseudo Maze reprint but it doesn't work with Kaalia, I don't think.
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Thank you for the responses, I definitely see the value of the card but have decided not to add it to my deck list. I don't want to spend the $25 on it, and I feel my deck boasts more than enough protection as it stands to put Maze of Ith and its ilk in a redundant position, possibly even slowing down my tempo.
I did however add them to the alternative subthemes section as a recommendation to those who run smaller amounts of combat protection for their creatures.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
King Shane: I added your list in my deck's thread as another notable Kaalia list. That cool with you bro?
--- Meren of Clan Nel Toth --- Jhoira of the Ghitu --- Prime Speaker Zegana ---
--- Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief --- Ghoulcaller Gisa --- Akroma, Angel of Fury --- Titania, Protector of Argoth ---
Totally cool man, thanks for doing so.
EDIT: I also added you to the special thanks section and provided links to your deck.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
this is the deck in its current iteration, there are a few cards on the chopping block right now that need to be looked at a little closer to tighten the list up a bit, possibly a bit more Punishment to scare people from touching Kaalia or anything else i play. otherwise the list works more than solidly for my Meta, but being the DB I am when i play this deck, i wanna make it MUCH more cuthroat but hey, at least I know I'm that douche right? lol
thanks to SGT_Chubbz for the Awesome Sig!
Standard:
UGRBBurning VengeanceBRGU
UWBSolar FlareBWU
RGWerewolvesGR
EDH
RWBKaalia Of the VastBWR
BROlivia VoldarenRB
Enlightened tutor gets a lot of the cards you want to; sol ring, protection, swords, arena.
Tithe is another easy card advantage card which can also fetch mistveil plains for sunforger.
Weathered wayfarer is also an awesome card advantage engine, and its ability to find any land also lets you easily find utility lands like maze of ith.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I'll have to try out Elspeth this weekend for sure.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
Solemn Simulacrum doesn't do much more than slow us down. Mana rock or WW exceed it by far as a card slot.
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)
I'll put up my revamped Kaalia list sometime next week.
I'm going to eat a little crow here Rakdos is a cool guy; I was wrong he's now on my decklist.
By the way, I really want to test Admonition Angel in my deck, but since I don't own any fetchlands I think she'll underperform. Do you think lands like Evolving Wilds or Terramorphic Expanse would be good? Or maybe Grixis Panorama and the like?
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=367080
-Haste for Kaalia (and any other creatures you played/cheated out that turn)
-+2/+0 on everything that swings (except for the creature that Kaalia drops out, but c'mon... aren't those creatures big enough as it is?)
-A ressurected, most likely HUGE body to surprise your opponent with
Not to mention that with just Kaalia and ToS, as long as you've got an Angel/Dragon/Demon in hand, you just went from 0-1 creatures to at least 3, which in this deck is often times enough to completely obliterate an opponent that isn't paying attention. It's definitely worth at least looking at, if nothing else.
He already explained that:
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast