Just dusted off the deck and gave it a tune-up with all the new cards that have been released. I plan to reformat this post over the next week or so.
This project was started in an effort to create a deck that was:
1) skill intensive
2) chock full of interesting card interactions
3) capable of weird big plays
4) not degenerate
5) fun for the whole table
6) plays differently every game
7) still competitive
I'd gotten to a hard spot with my playgroup, because frankly I'm a **** for card interactions and synergies....as a result the decks I built were often overpowered, because I sought the strongest card interactions....not exactly degenerate, but also not fun for the table to play against. My playgroup's power level has increased considerably over the past months, but still not to the point of being able to thwart infinite combos and the ilk (not that i'd want to play them to begin with).
So I had a bit of a crisis with EDH. It is my favorite format, but I'm completely against timmying my way to victory. The only way I stay interested is if a deck is very interaction-heavy and demanding to play.
So here is the fruit of my labor....I've been testing it with my playgroup for months, and I think the deck is finally achieving the desired results. I've made some recent changes to the creature base, which I'm interested to see how that affects things
The tempo of the deck is very much like that of a control deck. I hesitate to call it a control deck, because it's actually not the best at holding down the board at all times. Typically the deck isn't treated as a threat early on....because your control elements are soft enough to not irritate everyone (chaos warp, beast within, mogg infestation, etc) But there are enough control and politicizing moves to keep you around for the late game.
Even when the deck wins, the table(and you) typically doesn't understand exactly how it happened, or they pat you on the back for closing out the game in style. This is partially because a lot of other decks pretend they aren't a threat, when they actually are....rather this deck is genuinely only a modest threat for 90% of the game.
Seems nice. Intet's my favourite legendary ever
I run mine in a creature-based deck (more specifically in a power >5 creature deck), though, so I don't have much to say about this. Swapping an Island for a Halimar Depths, maybe? And what exactly does that Polymorph do in there?
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Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
Seems nice. Intet's my favourite legendary ever
I run mine in a creature-based deck (more specifically in a power >5 creature deck), though, so I don't have much to say about this. Swapping an Island for a Halimar Depths, maybe? And what exactly does that Polymorph do in there?
1) Radiate it for laughs...which can also search out your creature combo while only losing a handful of tokens....in which case you'll be laughing your way to the bank.
2) Gain an early ally by morphing their spud into something that gives them better board presence...
3) Deal with an opponent's bomb...which may just become another bomb, but that's part of the fun!
4) Typically it'll just trade one of your tokens for one of the seven neato creatures in your deck.
and I honestly really enjoy the art
I may sub out the lone Karoo for halimar depths...but I think I may have enough library manipulation as it is....btw I replied to your thread
Thanks for the post in my thread...
If you're considering to include Noxious Revival, maybe Fossil Find would be a good card to cut.
Have you seen the spoilers for the new Planechase? Etherium-Horn Sorcerer (4UR, cascade, returns to your hand for UR) looks like a lot of fun in here.
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Thanks for the post in my thread...
If you're considering to include Noxious Revival, maybe Fossil Find would be a good card to cut.
Have you seen the spoilers for the new Planechase? Etherium-Horn Sorcerer (4UR, cascade, returns to your hand for UR) looks like a lot of fun in here.
Etherium-Horn Sorceror would be a really good inclusion....I'm just not sure what creature would come out for it....
Fossil Find is a necessary card IMO...not so much that it's an amazing card (sometimes it is), but it more for it's flavor and it is one of those cards that keeps the deck from being too efficient. It takes a little more finesse to get the most out of the card, but I like that about it. It's capable of degenerate things (w/ Radiate), but it's not something that sends warning signals across the table.
Doubling Season seems like an upgrade to Parallel Lives...though I suppose you don't really have a way to abuse the more broken part.
Otherwise, I like the deck! You've given me some ideas for my own Intet list
Yeah typically Doubling Season is hands down the better of the two....but in the current incarnation, Parallel Lives' lower casting cost pushes it ahead in my opinion. I might make the switch if I ever get around to cramming in Sarkhan Vol.
Etherium-Horn Sorceror would be a really good inclusion....I'm just not sure what creature would come out for it....
Fossil Find is a necessary card IMO...not so much that it's an amazing card (sometimes it is), but it more for it's flavor and it is one of those cards that keeps the deck from being too efficient. It takes a little more finesse to get the most out of the card, but I like that about it. It's capable of degenerate things (w/ Radiate), but it's not something that sends warning signals across the table.
Creatures? But... The sorcerer's cascade ins't limited to creatures! You can get anything, from a Bloodbraid Elf to a Rite of Replication to a Parallel Lives. Its only problem is cascading into something unplayable at the time like Radiate.
Oh, and speaking on Radiate, Fossil Find doesn't work with it. Because of not targeting anything and all that.
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Creatures? But... The sorcerer's cascade ins't limited to creatures! You can get anything, from a Bloodbraid Elf to a Rite of Replication to a Parallel Lives. Its only problem is cascading into something unplayable at the time like Radiate.
Oh, and speaking on Radiate, Fossil Find doesn't work with it. Because of not targeting anything and all that.
Nooo...I just meant that I don't want to increase my creature count, so I'd need to take a creature out to make room for the Sorceror...and I'm not sure what I would prefer to cut at this point.
Re: Fossil Find....I should really start looking at cards more closely before I play with them
Not sure if that'll convince me to take it out....I could possibly include Surreal Memoir instead...hmm..
I play a Zedruu deck that is a similar playstyle to what you're trying to do. For example, where you do things like radiate a beast within, I do things like play opalescence to mirrorweave a pandemonium. It's a goofy deck and every game is a fresh experience.
Have you considered howling mine effects? I can't judge how it would work in your meta, but I've found that global draw effects tend to increase options for everyone and make more interactive games. If you play against people who are too competitive, you may end up facilitating an infinite combo, or if you play against experienced players they'll probably remove it asap, but in my playgroup, I've never been dissappointed by "land, sol ring, howling mine" to start a game.
If you don't have meta reasons to not play these, I'd highly recommend them over one shot draw spells. It's the less competitive option as you give up card advantage, but if rediculous and varied games are your goal, card advantage may not be what you need.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Not sure if that'll convince me to take it out....I could possibly include Surreal Memoir instead...hmm..
Explosive Revelation? It's not exactly reliable unless you've got Top or Scroll Rack, but it's fun. And Radiating it is like playing Russian Roulette for the whole table and drawing your entire deck in one go.
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I play a Zedruu deck that is a similar playstyle to what you're trying to do. For example, where you do things like radiate a beast within, I do things like play opalescence to mirrorweave a pandemonium. It's a goofy deck and every game is a fresh experience.
Have you considered howling mine effects? I can't judge how it would work in your meta, but I've found that global draw effects tend to increase options for everyone and make more interactive games. If you play against people who are too competitive, you may end up facilitating an infinite combo, or if you play against experienced players they'll probably remove it asap, but in my playgroup, I've never been dissappointed by "land, sol ring, howling mine" to start a game.
If you don't have meta reasons to not play these, I'd highly recommend them over one shot draw spells. It's the less competitive option as you give up card advantage, but if rediculous and varied games are your goal, card advantage may not be what you need.
The only group-hug effects that I've considered using are Heartbeat of Spring and/or Mana Flare...because I can typically do sillier things with the mana than others at the table...
I'm hesitant to introduce howling mine effects because I typically need as much time as I can get to establish board position...group-draw tends to speed things up and my deck won't be able to speed up to compensate. I also enjoy leaving the deck very spell oriented, for ease of copying and recurring....and my playgroup is obsessed with board wipes.
Explosive Revelation? It's not exactly reliable unless you've got Top or Scroll Rack, but it's fun. And Radiating it is like playing Russian Roulette for the whole table and drawing your entire deck in one go.
I like your thinking ....another 5cc card is a difficult add, but i'll put in the currently considering section.
There is also Make a Wish, for a beefier version of Fossil Find...3G is more manageable than 3RR, but it doesn't play with Radiate...
I ended up taking out the Cascade guys, because they are pretty lackluster with Proteus Staff and Polymorph...which are slowly becoming my main route to get guys into play.
In dropping the Cascade guys I trimmed down the creature count and added aether mutation which I'm excited about....to an illogical degree.
The only group-hug effects that I've considered using are Heartbeat of Spring and/or Mana Flare...because I can typically do sillier things with the mana than others at the table...
I'm hesitant to introduce howling mine effects because I typically need as much time as I can get to establish board position...group-draw tends to speed things up and my deck won't be able to speed up to compensate. I also enjoy leaving the deck very spell oriented, for ease of copying and recurring.
I'm actually considering using Mana Flare as well, although not in the same way, as it's almost certain to backfire and I'm just ok with that.
But on the topic of everyone drawing, I find it tends to slow the game down. Generally, people play more threats in their decks than answers. The most limiting factor in people playing threats is usually mana, where the most limiting factor in people playing answers is cards in hand. It's double the threats drawn and double the answers, so as long as your group isn't full of people who ignore a big threat because they feel like playing their own (misplay), they're doesn't tend to be the type of game acceleration you'd expect.
My Zedruu only has 5 removal cards on its own and essentially requires other people to deal with each other's fatties and generals, and yet I've seen a game where all I played for a long time was a walking archive and march of the machines, and the game stopped dead because everyone else answered everything.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I'm actually considering using Mana Flare as well, although not in the same way, as it's almost certain to backfire and I'm just ok with that.
But on the topic of everyone drawing, I find it tends to slow the game down. Generally, people play more threats in their decks than answers. The most limiting factor in people playing threats is usually mana, where the most limiting factor in people playing answers is cards in hand. It's double the threats drawn and double the answers, so as long as your group isn't full of people who ignore a big threat because they feel like playing their own (misplay), they're doesn't tend to be the type of game acceleration you'd expect.
There lies part of my problem....the board states in my group tend to get pretty dense, because most people address someone's threat by topping it with their own....there is very little spot removal and almost all removal is in the form of Nevinyrral's Disk-type effects and Terastodon-like utility creatures which are threats in and of themselves. My playgroup is fairly new to EDH, so things are still a little wonky
I hear your point, though.
I have considered Mikokoro, Center of the Sea as it's less susceptible to removal, and I can use it at my discretion....however I'm not sure if my manabase can handle multiple colorless producing lands. I suppose it could replace Alchemist's Refuge. Beyond that, I'd be into using Wheel effects potentially.
Also do you have your Zedruu list posted anywhere? I'd be interested to see it...
There lies part of my problem....the board states in my group tend to get pretty dense, because most people address someone's threat by topping it with their own....there is very little spot removal and almost all removal is in the form of Nevinyrral's Disk-type effects and Terastodon-like utility creatures which are threats in and of themselves. My playgroup is fairly new to EDH, so things are still a little wonky
I hear your point, though.
I have considered Mikokoro, Center of the Sea as it's less susceptible to removal, and I can use it at my discretion....however I'm not sure if my manabase can handle multiple colorless producing lands. I suppose it could replace Alchemist's Refuge. Beyond that, I'd be into using Wheel effects potentially.
Also do you have your Zedruu list posted anywhere? I'd be interested to see it...
I wouldn't replace alchemist's refuge. Every strange play gets even stranger with flash.
I can see how you wouldn't want to give draw to people without any spot removal. What silly people. Well, give them twice that cards and they'll learn to remove or have really fast games, lol. (that was a joke. I actually hate the "they'll play up to whatever you do" arguement)
I do have my Zedruu list posted, but I'm probably going to give it a nice, big "primer"-type post soon, so I'll get back to you then.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
I can see how you wouldn't want to give draw to people without any spot removal. What silly people. Well, give them twice that cards and they'll learn to remove or have really fast games, lol. (that was a joke. I actually hate the "they'll play up to whatever you do" arguement)
I do have my Zedruu list posted, but I'm probably going to give it a nice, big "primer"-type post soon, so I'll get back to you then.
yeah, the fact that I tried to get them to play up to my decks caused a little tension in the group...that's part of what led me to make this deck
i look forward to the list
unexciting changes:
added a vesuva and a simic growth chamber in place of a couple islands...that should help smooth out my mana a little. I'm not the biggest fan of the karoos, but I don't have any filter lands like cascade bluffs on hand at the moment
i'm thinking whirlpool warrior needs to be replaced....just not sure what would be best in that spot. Cards that I'm considering in its spot:
Going to be testing Eyes of the Watcher in place of Future Sight....Future Sight felt a little to goodstuffy for me, and the mana cost was a pain. EotW isn't nearly as good as Future Sight, but is a little more dynamic and flavorful....and seems more fun to use....and doesn't paint a target on your head like Future Sight.
I'm considered switching Intet out for Maelstrom Wanderer....Wanderer feels more chaotic, and I could add some more bounce effects...I also like the immediacy of the ETB effect. It's a hard decision to make, because Intet just doesn't get much love these days, but Wanderer is more thematic with the direction the deck is going...
I'm considered switching Intet out for Maelstrom Wanderer....Wanderer feels more chaotic, and I could add some more bounce effects...I also like the immediacy of the ETB effect. It's a hard decision to make, because Intet just doesn't get much love these days, but Wanderer is more thematic with the direction the deck is going...
I would suggest that. Double cascade seems much more fun and chaotic than Intet is.
-1 Intet the Dreamer, +1 Maelstrom Wanderer...just makes more sense
-1 Fossil Find, +1 Mystical Tutor....been trying to find a replacement, and I finally ordered a copy
-1 Opposition, +1 Holistic Wisdom
I'm thinking I need to work on beefing up my defense a little, but I won't know if it's necessary until I get some playing time in.
Whoa, you've swapped your general! That's a huge change!
I think that you should increase your creature count a little. I might be biased since I only play creature-based decks, but they do have better value with Wanderer and stuff like Warpworld.
Suggestions:
-Gilded Drake (if your budget allows it) or Keiga, the Tide Star are fun. Steal them creatures!
- Evoke dudes like Slithermuse, Spitebellows and Aethersnipe can help early game and and aren't bad to cascade/warp world/mass polymorph into either.
- Magus of the Future. Because, dude! As if it wasn't good enough alone, it also helps you in knowing what the Wanderer will get. Or Future Sight, if you prefer its harder to remove cousin.
And good luck with your new general! Hope you get awesome cascades.
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Commander:GB Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord (list) - U Talrand, Sky Summoner - GRU Maelstrom Wanderer
how about Selective Memory? If MW is your commander it works wonders to help filter your deck, right?
~Lil Kalki
Hm, 98% sure you can assemble an insta-win combo with two spells in your library and Wanderer's double cascade. Gotta research one.
Not sure if you want insta-win combos, but this one probably wouldn't be degenerate.
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Whoa, you've swapped your general! That's a huge change!
I think that you should increase your creature count a little. I might be biased since I only play creature-based decks, but they do have better value with Wanderer and stuff like Warpworld.
Suggestions:
-Gilded Drake (if your budget allows it) or Keiga, the Tide Star are fun. Steal them creatures!
- Evoke dudes like Slithermuse, Spitebellows and Aethersnipe can help early game and and aren't bad to cascade/warp world/mass polymorph into either.
- Magus of the Future. Because, dude! As if it wasn't good enough alone, it also helps you in knowing what the Wanderer will get. Or Future Sight, if you prefer its harder to remove cousin.
And good luck with your new general! Hope you get awesome cascades.
I want to maintain a high number of spells as well as reduce the amount of unpredictability of proteus staff/polymorph/guided passage (all key cards in the deck)....Plus most of my other decks are creature dense, and I wanted a more spell happy deck.
I have considered Slithermuse in place of Whirlpool Warrior, since it's outright draw...but won't allow me to really abuse it with Deadeye Navigator without a little work. The cost is similar....I like Whirlpool Warrior more as a card, but I think Slitermuse may be better without being too good.
I had Future Sight in, but took it out in favor of Eyes of the Watcher, which is substantially less good, but easier on my mana base and more flavorful. Time will tell if this substitution will be adequate...don't get me wrong, Future Sight is a HOUSE....it was won a lot of games single-handedly for me...but it paints a target on my head, and felt too much like "good stuff."
And unfortunately Magus of the Future doesn't synergize with Deadeye Navigator, so I left it out.
how about Selective Memory? If MW is your commander it works wonders to help filter your deck, right?
~Lil Kalki
It would indeed be good with Maelstrom....but it goes against the random quality of the deck i'm trying to maintain. It may seems silly to purposefully avoid obvious power synergies (like Avenger of Zendikar, Mass Polymorph, etc) but my goal is to try and win with the least efficiency I can get away with
I don't want to have any "go to" win-conditions per se....and that kind of card only functions as a win condition....all other cards in the deck are flexible in their roles.....which really allows me to adapt to the board state and produce varied and continually interesting plays.
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This project was started in an effort to create a deck that was:
1) skill intensive
2) chock full of interesting card interactions
3) capable of weird big plays
4) not degenerate
5) fun for the whole table
6) plays differently every game
7) still competitive
I'd gotten to a hard spot with my playgroup, because frankly I'm a **** for card interactions and synergies....as a result the decks I built were often overpowered, because I sought the strongest card interactions....not exactly degenerate, but also not fun for the table to play against. My playgroup's power level has increased considerably over the past months, but still not to the point of being able to thwart infinite combos and the ilk (not that i'd want to play them to begin with).
So I had a bit of a crisis with EDH. It is my favorite format, but I'm completely against timmying my way to victory. The only way I stay interested is if a deck is very interaction-heavy and demanding to play.
So here is the fruit of my labor....I've been testing it with my playgroup for months, and I think the deck is finally achieving the desired results. I've made some recent changes to the creature base, which I'm interested to see how that affects things
Deck List:
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
Creatures (5)
1 Archaeomancer
1 Prophet of Kruphix
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Etherium-Horn Sorceror
1 Melek Izzet Paragon
Instants (19)
1 Pongify
1 Brainstorm
1 Noxious Revival
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Impulse
1 Manamorphose
1 Telling Time
1 Tribute to the Wild
1 Metamorphose
1 Beast Within
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Chaos Warp
1 Reiterate
1 Plasm Capture
1 Steam Augury
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Reins of Power
1 Desertion
1 Reweave
Sorceries (29)
1 Gamble
1 Fossil Find
1 Collective Voyage
1 Explore
1 Life from the Loam
1 Guided Passage
1 Windfall
1 Heat Shimmer
1 Stitch in Time
1 Recross the Paths
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Make a Wish
1 Polymorph
1 Rite of Replication
1 Unexpected Results
1 Stolen Goods
1 Cerebral Eruption
1 Chain Reaction
1 Wild Swing
1 Bribery
1 Mogg Infestation
1 Telemin Performance
1 Urban Evolution
1 Spelltwine
1 Spitting Image
1 Vengeful Rebirth
1 Recurring Insight
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Exploration
1 Burgeoning
1 Shapeshifter's Marrow
Artifacts (5)
1 Scroll Rack
1 Reito Lantern
1 Temporal Aperture
1 Druidic Satchel
1 Proteus Staff
Lands (38)
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Command Tower
1 Kher Keep
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Tolaria West
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
6 Forest
6 Island
4 Mountain
Old Deck List:
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
Creatures (6)
1 Eternal Witness
1 Whirlpool Warrior
1 Deadeye Navigator
1 Wort, the Raidmother
1 Chancellor of the Spires
1 Tyrant of Discord
Instants (20)
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Noxious Revival
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Impulse
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Telling Time
1 Beast Within
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Chaos Warp
1 Cytoshape
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Reiterate
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Reins of Power
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Spin into Myth
1 Radiate
1 Reweave
Sorceries (20)
1 Gamble
1 Mystic Speculation
1 Explore
1 Hull Breach
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Guided Passage
1 Heat Shimmer
1 Recross the Paths
1 Polymorph
1 Reap and Sow
1 Rite of Replication
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Æther Mutation
1 Bribery
1 Devastation Tide
1 Mogg Infestation
1 Telemin Performance
1 Cultural Exchange
1 Spitting Image
1 Night Soil
1 Eyes of the Watcher
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Holistic Wisdom
1 Parallel Lives
1 Fable of Wolf and Owl
1 Mana Reflection
1 Day of the Dragons
Artifacts (6)
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Scroll Rack
1 Temporal Aperture
1 Proteus Staff
1 Mirari
Planeswalker (1)
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands (38)
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Command Tower
1 Kher Keep
1 Springjack Pasture
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Vesuva
1 Reflecting Pool
5 Forest
7 Island
2 Mountain
The tempo of the deck is very much like that of a control deck. I hesitate to call it a control deck, because it's actually not the best at holding down the board at all times. Typically the deck isn't treated as a threat early on....because your control elements are soft enough to not irritate everyone (chaos warp, beast within, mogg infestation, etc) But there are enough control and politicizing moves to keep you around for the late game.
Even when the deck wins, the table(and you) typically doesn't understand exactly how it happened, or they pat you on the back for closing out the game in style. This is partially because a lot of other decks pretend they aren't a threat, when they actually are....rather this deck is genuinely only a modest threat for 90% of the game.
Themes:
Notable Omissions:
Currently Considering:
-Farseek, +Exploration
-Nature's Lore, +Windfall
-Boundless Realms, +Urban Evolution
12/-9/13:
-Snakeform, +Stitch in Time
12/08/13
Deck Overhaul
06/18/12
- Pongify, + Reins of Power
- Grab the Reins, + Heartbeat of Spring
06/17/12
- Wild Ricochet, + Bribery
06/14/12
- Reliquary Tower, + Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
06/12/12
- Voidslime, + Cryptic Command
- Blasphemous Act, + Devastation Tide
- Lace with Moonglove, + Cytoshape
- Intuition, + Long-Term Plans
- Island, + Reflecting Pool
06/02/12
- Intet the Dreamer, + Maelstrom Wanderer
- Fossil Find, + Mystical Tutor
- Opposition, + Holistic Wisdom
05/30/12
-Future Sight, + Eyes of the Watcher
05/21/12
- Island, + Simic Growth Chamber
- Island, + Vesuva
05/20/12
- Myr Battlesphere, +Wort, the Raidmother
- Body Double, + Chancellor of Spires
- Bloodbraid Elf, + Whirlpool Warrior
- Maelstrom Wanderer, + Æther Mutation
- Fire/Ice, + Telling Time
- Word of Seizing, + Noxious Revival
- Knowledge Exploitation, + Telemin Performance
I appreciate any comments/suggestions!
great....my day is now ruined.
(edited)
I run mine in a creature-based deck (more specifically in a power >5 creature deck), though, so I don't have much to say about this. Swapping an Island for a Halimar Depths, maybe? And what exactly does that Polymorph do in there?
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
My main uses of Polymorph:
1) Radiate it for laughs...which can also search out your creature combo while only losing a handful of tokens....in which case you'll be laughing your way to the bank.
2) Gain an early ally by morphing their spud into something that gives them better board presence...
3) Deal with an opponent's bomb...which may just become another bomb, but that's part of the fun!
4) Typically it'll just trade one of your tokens for one of the seven neato creatures in your deck.
and I honestly really enjoy the art
I may sub out the lone Karoo for halimar depths...but I think I may have enough library manipulation as it is....btw I replied to your thread
If you're considering to include Noxious Revival, maybe Fossil Find would be a good card to cut.
Have you seen the spoilers for the new Planechase? Etherium-Horn Sorcerer (4UR, cascade, returns to your hand for UR) looks like a lot of fun in here.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
- Myr Battlesphere, +Wort, the Raidmother
- Body Double, + Chancellor of Spires
- Fire/Ice, + Peer Through Depths
- Word of Seizing, + Noxious Revival
- Knowledge Exploitation, + Telemin Performance
Wish I had time to test these changes before I leave the country for a month
Etherium-Horn Sorceror would be a really good inclusion....I'm just not sure what creature would come out for it....
Fossil Find is a necessary card IMO...not so much that it's an amazing card (sometimes it is), but it more for it's flavor and it is one of those cards that keeps the deck from being too efficient. It takes a little more finesse to get the most out of the card, but I like that about it. It's capable of degenerate things (w/ Radiate), but it's not something that sends warning signals across the table.
Otherwise, I like the deck! You've given me some ideas for my own Intet list
Yeah typically Doubling Season is hands down the better of the two....but in the current incarnation, Parallel Lives' lower casting cost pushes it ahead in my opinion. I might make the switch if I ever get around to cramming in Sarkhan Vol.
Creatures? But... The sorcerer's cascade ins't limited to creatures! You can get anything, from a Bloodbraid Elf to a Rite of Replication to a Parallel Lives. Its only problem is cascading into something unplayable at the time like Radiate.
Oh, and speaking on Radiate, Fossil Find doesn't work with it. Because of not targeting anything and all that.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
Nooo...I just meant that I don't want to increase my creature count, so I'd need to take a creature out to make room for the Sorceror...and I'm not sure what I would prefer to cut at this point.
Re: Fossil Find....I should really start looking at cards more closely before I play with them
Not sure if that'll convince me to take it out....I could possibly include Surreal Memoir instead...hmm..
Have you considered howling mine effects? I can't judge how it would work in your meta, but I've found that global draw effects tend to increase options for everyone and make more interactive games. If you play against people who are too competitive, you may end up facilitating an infinite combo, or if you play against experienced players they'll probably remove it asap, but in my playgroup, I've never been dissappointed by "land, sol ring, howling mine" to start a game.
If you don't have meta reasons to not play these, I'd highly recommend them over one shot draw spells. It's the less competitive option as you give up card advantage, but if rediculous and varied games are your goal, card advantage may not be what you need.
Explosive Revelation? It's not exactly reliable unless you've got Top or Scroll Rack, but it's fun. And Radiating it is like playing Russian Roulette for the whole table and drawing your entire deck in one go.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
The only group-hug effects that I've considered using are Heartbeat of Spring and/or Mana Flare...because I can typically do sillier things with the mana than others at the table...
I'm hesitant to introduce howling mine effects because I typically need as much time as I can get to establish board position...group-draw tends to speed things up and my deck won't be able to speed up to compensate. I also enjoy leaving the deck very spell oriented, for ease of copying and recurring....and my playgroup is obsessed with board wipes.
I like your thinking ....another 5cc card is a difficult add, but i'll put in the currently considering section.
There is also Make a Wish, for a beefier version of Fossil Find...3G is more manageable than 3RR, but it doesn't play with Radiate...
I ended up taking out the Cascade guys, because they are pretty lackluster with Proteus Staff and Polymorph...which are slowly becoming my main route to get guys into play.
In dropping the Cascade guys I trimmed down the creature count and added aether mutation which I'm excited about....to an illogical degree.
I'm actually considering using Mana Flare as well, although not in the same way, as it's almost certain to backfire and I'm just ok with that.
But on the topic of everyone drawing, I find it tends to slow the game down. Generally, people play more threats in their decks than answers. The most limiting factor in people playing threats is usually mana, where the most limiting factor in people playing answers is cards in hand. It's double the threats drawn and double the answers, so as long as your group isn't full of people who ignore a big threat because they feel like playing their own (misplay), they're doesn't tend to be the type of game acceleration you'd expect.
My Zedruu only has 5 removal cards on its own and essentially requires other people to deal with each other's fatties and generals, and yet I've seen a game where all I played for a long time was a walking archive and march of the machines, and the game stopped dead because everyone else answered everything.
There lies part of my problem....the board states in my group tend to get pretty dense, because most people address someone's threat by topping it with their own....there is very little spot removal and almost all removal is in the form of Nevinyrral's Disk-type effects and Terastodon-like utility creatures which are threats in and of themselves. My playgroup is fairly new to EDH, so things are still a little wonky
I hear your point, though.
I have considered Mikokoro, Center of the Sea as it's less susceptible to removal, and I can use it at my discretion....however I'm not sure if my manabase can handle multiple colorless producing lands. I suppose it could replace Alchemist's Refuge. Beyond that, I'd be into using Wheel effects potentially.
Also do you have your Zedruu list posted anywhere? I'd be interested to see it...
I wouldn't replace alchemist's refuge. Every strange play gets even stranger with flash.
I can see how you wouldn't want to give draw to people without any spot removal. What silly people. Well, give them twice that cards and they'll learn to remove or have really fast games, lol. (that was a joke. I actually hate the "they'll play up to whatever you do" arguement)
I do have my Zedruu list posted, but I'm probably going to give it a nice, big "primer"-type post soon, so I'll get back to you then.
yeah, the fact that I tried to get them to play up to my decks caused a little tension in the group...that's part of what led me to make this deck
i look forward to the list
unexciting changes:
added a vesuva and a simic growth chamber in place of a couple islands...that should help smooth out my mana a little. I'm not the biggest fan of the karoos, but I don't have any filter lands like cascade bluffs on hand at the moment
i'm thinking whirlpool warrior needs to be replaced....just not sure what would be best in that spot. Cards that I'm considering in its spot:
I'm considered switching Intet out for Maelstrom Wanderer....Wanderer feels more chaotic, and I could add some more bounce effects...I also like the immediacy of the ETB effect. It's a hard decision to make, because Intet just doesn't get much love these days, but Wanderer is more thematic with the direction the deck is going...
I would suggest that. Double cascade seems much more fun and chaotic than Intet is.
-1 Intet the Dreamer, +1 Maelstrom Wanderer...just makes more sense
-1 Fossil Find, +1 Mystical Tutor....been trying to find a replacement, and I finally ordered a copy
-1 Opposition, +1 Holistic Wisdom
I'm thinking I need to work on beefing up my defense a little, but I won't know if it's necessary until I get some playing time in.
I think that you should increase your creature count a little. I might be biased since I only play creature-based decks, but they do have better value with Wanderer and stuff like Warpworld.
Suggestions:
-Gilded Drake (if your budget allows it) or Keiga, the Tide Star are fun. Steal them creatures!
- Evoke dudes like Slithermuse, Spitebellows and Aethersnipe can help early game and and aren't bad to cascade/warp world/mass polymorph into either.
- Magus of the Future. Because, dude! As if it wasn't good enough alone, it also helps you in knowing what the Wanderer will get. Or Future Sight, if you prefer its harder to remove cousin.
And good luck with your new general! Hope you get awesome cascades.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Hm, 98% sure you can assemble an insta-win combo with two spells in your library and Wanderer's double cascade. Gotta research one.
Not sure if you want insta-win combos, but this one probably wouldn't be degenerate.
Pauper: UR some horrible homebrew izzet deck
I want to maintain a high number of spells as well as reduce the amount of unpredictability of proteus staff/polymorph/guided passage (all key cards in the deck)....Plus most of my other decks are creature dense, and I wanted a more spell happy deck.
I have considered Slithermuse in place of Whirlpool Warrior, since it's outright draw...but won't allow me to really abuse it with Deadeye Navigator without a little work. The cost is similar....I like Whirlpool Warrior more as a card, but I think Slitermuse may be better without being too good.
I had Future Sight in, but took it out in favor of Eyes of the Watcher, which is substantially less good, but easier on my mana base and more flavorful. Time will tell if this substitution will be adequate...don't get me wrong, Future Sight is a HOUSE....it was won a lot of games single-handedly for me...but it paints a target on my head, and felt too much like "good stuff."
And unfortunately Magus of the Future doesn't synergize with Deadeye Navigator, so I left it out.
It would indeed be good with Maelstrom....but it goes against the random quality of the deck i'm trying to maintain. It may seems silly to purposefully avoid obvious power synergies (like Avenger of Zendikar, Mass Polymorph, etc) but my goal is to try and win with the least efficiency I can get away with
I don't want to have any "go to" win-conditions per se....and that kind of card only functions as a win condition....all other cards in the deck are flexible in their roles.....which really allows me to adapt to the board state and produce varied and continually interesting plays.