I've tried to keep a balance between being competitive and just being mindless fun, hence some of the card choices, but I think I've ran out of ideas. Any suggestions on other cards or techs I could try?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Edit: Finally got Iona and Rakdos, updated the list with a lot of new cards.
Made some changes to the deck, finally got the Shocklands, Iona and Rakdos.
I'm very satisfied with the performance of the deck so far, but I think there's still room for some improvement. Also there are some cards I thinking of taking out like Blood Speaker and Debtor's Knell since they haven't worked the way I thought they would.
edit: also, with conspiracy you could swing and lay out any creature with kaalia.
Id also take out the signets. Your goal is to get 4 land, as long as you have 4 of the right color and hopefully greaves, you are good to go. So, lots of non basics, such as tap lands and bounce lands. With your amulet out you will barely even need kaalia if she manages to die.
Id also take out the signets. Your goal is to get 4 land, as long as you have 4 of the right color and hopefully greaves, you are good to go. So, lots of non basics, such as tap lands and bounce lands. With your amulet out you will barely even need kaalia if she manages to die.
This is terrible advice, OP I hope you don't take it. The Ravnican signets and other two drop mana rocks are what help Kaalia come out turn 3, or even turn 2 with a lucky start, and they fix two of your colours at the same time. Seriously, I'll never understand why people say "cut signets" they give you the chance to turn 1 into two of any colour. A Sol Ring makes four coloured mana with two of them also. 2 = (R/B)(R/W) any combination there!
And to recommend bouncelands, and tap lands, wtf dude. Those don't speed him up, they slow him down and cause him to lose massive tempo. Lots of non-basics? Because you want the OP to loose to Blood Moon/Back to Basics? :\
Dragon Tyrant is hardly an auto-include, I would even play an Akroma before him, and I don't even play either Akromas. They just don't do enough, and Tyrant does even less and demands one helluva upkeep if you want to swing with him again.
This is terrible advice, OP I hope you don't take it. The Ravnican signets and other two drop mana rocks are what help Kaalia come out turn 3, or even turn 2 with a lucky start, and they fix two of your colours at the same time. Seriously, I'll never understand why people say "cut signets" they give you the chance to turn 1 into two of any colour. A Sol Ring makes four coloured mana with two of them also. 2 = (R/B)(R/W) any combination there!
And to recommend bouncelands, and tap lands, wtf dude. Those don't speed him up, they slow him down and cause him to lose massive tempo. Lots of non-basics? Because you want the OP to loose to Blood Moon/Back to Basics? :\
Dragon Tyrant is hardly an auto-include, I would even play an Akroma before him, and I don't even play either Akromas. They just don't do enough, and Tyrant does even less and demands one helluva upkeep if you want to swing with him again.
Actually, I think you right about the Akromas, they only hit hard, but I haven't found another worthy angels to take their place, and I don't want to include more non-angel, non-demon o non-dragon creatures than the ones I already have.
Fortunately I'm not afraid of cards like Back to Basics or Blood Moon since nobody in my playgroup uses them.
I've never ever considered using Dragon Tyrant, if Kaalia is tucked he almost uncastable and the upkeep cost is really high. I rejected Kuro, Pitlord for the same reason.
This is terrible advice, OP I hope you don't take it. The Ravnican signets and other two drop mana rocks are what help Kaalia come out turn 3, or even turn 2 with a lucky start, and they fix two of your colours at the same time. Seriously, I'll never understand why people say "cut signets" they give you the chance to turn 1 into two of any colour. A Sol Ring makes four coloured mana with two of them also. 2 = (R/B)(R/W) any combination there!
And to recommend bouncelands, and tap lands, wtf dude. Those don't speed him up, they slow him down and cause him to lose massive tempo. Lots of non-basics? Because you want the OP to loose to Blood Moon/Back to Basics? :\
Dragon Tyrant is hardly an auto-include, I would even play an Akroma before him, and I don't even play either Akromas. They just don't do enough, and Tyrant does even less and demands one helluva upkeep if you want to swing with him again.
You must be stupid, because ive swung for up to 30 with just him and kaalia. You don't need to up keep him if you can get him back to your hand and swing again for free.
Not running non basics because of two cards in the game is pretty ****ing dumb too.
Explain to me how you would get kaalia out turn 3 without a bounce land.
Turn one command solring, turn two bounce command for say orzhov, turn 3 kaalia.
You must be stupid, because ive swung for up to 30 with just him and kaalia. You don't need to up keep him if you can get him back to your hand and swing again for free.
Not running non basics because of two cards in the game is pretty ****ing dumb too.
Explain to me how you would get kaalia out turn 3 without a bounce land.
Turn one command solring, turn two bounce command for say orzhov, turn 3 kaalia.
You dont know what you are talking about.
Actually, turn 2 kaalia goes like this:
1. Land, sol ring, signet or talisman
2. Lay another land, tap 5 mana and bring out kaalia
Turn 3 kaalia with haste goes like this:
1. Hall of the bandit lord
2. Land, signet
3. Land, tap 4 mana and hast form hall and drop kaalia.
The next best scenario is greaves out on turn 3, and kaalia out on turn 4. All of these scenarios require signets. And I also agree with the other guy. You may be playing against bad decks if your aforementioned advice is working.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
It's kind of fun when you see one of those opening hands though. It completely shifts how you can play your deck, especially against 1 or 2 other people.
Ramp is nice for hard casting the high costing a/d/d's if necessary.
What's bad about all that artifact ramp? Well, kaalia decks are also filled with a ton of a/d/d's too. Both the ramp and a/d/d's can become useless if kaalia is tucked or destroyed.
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
It's kind of fun when you see one of those opening hands though. It completely shifts how you can play your deck, especially against 1 or 2 other people.
Ramp is also necessary for hard casting the high costing a/d/d's if necessary.
I guess where my play group mostly consists of slow non-aggro decks, ive been able to get away with what im doing and never even considered a turn 2 kaalia.
Granted, 12 damage is nice, but how in the heck are you going to pay for 4 red as an upkeep cost that early? And if you could, what about anything else in your hand you would want to cast?
I see that your group may just not be putting enough pressure on you to make these kind of decisions yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
You must be stupid, because ive swung for up to 30 with just him and kaalia. You don't need to up keep him if you can get him back to your hand and swing again for free.
Swinging for damage is the most important aspect of a game? Odd, I always thought it was generating card advantage, and a steady board presence. Tyrant doesn't do that, and actually costs you resources. How exactly are you are you getting him back "for free"?
I've also been playing, tweaking, and mastering Kaalia of the Vast since the Commander product first came out. Feel free to check out the list in my sig for any advice my list can offer to your list.
Not running non basics because of two cards in the game is pretty ****ing dumb too.
Maybe so, but this is a three colour deck, I'm not going to let myself auto-lose to some cards, which are played by more people than you would think. Also, there is Magus of the Moon, Ruination, and cards like Global Ruin as well. Well more than just two cards.
Explain to me how you would get kaalia out turn 3 without a bounce land.
Turn one command solring, turn two bounce command for say orzhov, turn 3 kaalia.
You dont know what you are talking about.
Drizzle outlined that situation above this post.
Also, your turn 2 bounceland loses to my Wasteland. And then you are very sad as your tempo is screw all the hell up. Kaalia cannot afford such a drastic loss in early tempo. Maybe in other decks, but certainly not here.
I've been playing the deck since the Commander precons came out and I've gotten the second turn Kaalia only once.
I prefer Moltensteel Dragon over Dragon Tyrant, granted he doesn't have double strike, but his Phyrebreathing is really stupid with True Conviction, add Grand Abolisher to the mix and you can pay almost all your life to kill somebody without worrying. That has won me lots of games.
I've been playing the deck since the Commander precons came out and I've gotten the second turn Kaalia only once.
I prefer Moltensteel Dragon over Dragon Tyrant, granted he doesn't have double strike, but his Phyrebreathing is really stupid with True Conviction, add Grand Abolisher to the mix and you can pay almost all your life to kill somebody without worrying. That has won me lots of games.
I like the Moltensteel Dragon even less tbh. Yeah, he costs like a million mana less and doesn't "demand tribute" >_> but he just feels really...under whelming. Or win-more would be more accurate. He's only good when you're already winning. Though if he is working for you right now, I guess go for it then lol.
I think you're lacking in sweepers though, at least add in a Living Death to the mix. Maybe add a Hallowed Burial and a Decree of Pain. Decree especially as it just gives sooooooooooo much CA.
Obviously I'll mention some Swords, but you probably already knew that, and if you had them I imagine they'd be in here.
I've been playing the deck since the Commander precons came out and I've gotten the second turn Kaalia only once.
I prefer Moltensteel Dragon over Dragon Tyrant, granted he doesn't have double strike, but his Phyrebreathing is really stupid with True Conviction, add Grand Abolisher to the mix and you can pay almost all your life to kill somebody without worrying. That has won me lots of games.
Never thought of moltensteel dragon in that way. It's similar to a hatred if used like that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH Decks:
Kaalia's Army of AnnhilationRWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain MattersWB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator ToolboxBG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to DieRBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and TapGWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to BleedWBG
I like the Moltensteel Dragon even less tbh. Yeah, he costs like a million mana less and doesn't "demand tribute" >_> but he just feels really...under whelming. Or win-more would be more accurate. He's only good when you're already winning. Though if he is working for you right now, I guess go for it then lol.
I think you're lacking in sweepers though, at least add in a Living Death to the mix. Maybe add a Hallowed Burial and a Decree of Pain. Decree especially as it just gives sooooooooooo much CA.
Obviously I'll mention some Swords, but you probably already knew that, and if you had them I imagine they'd be in here.
I used to run more sweepers, but usually my friends are the ones wanting to clear the table, not me.
Well, if you don't have sweepers, what happens when they get a board presence that YOU have to remove though? You gotta be able to handle things too.
Living Death is also beneficial for you, can be like a one-sided wrath if your board is near empty. Decree of Pain is one helluva hand refill, but can be cycled early on to clear some early, small game dorks.
I have no idea how your play group plays, but Luminarch Ascension might be a weak card. Drawn early, it's powerful. Drawn late, and it is unlikely for you to collect counters.
I have no idea how your play group plays, but Luminarch Ascension might be a weak card. Draw early, it's powerful. Drawn late, and it is unlikely for you to collect counters.
I just added it, I haven't played with it yet. I'll test it during the weekend and see how it goes.
How has Luminarch Ascension been working out for you? I absolutely love the card, but have chosen not to run it in Kaalia because: a) I find it hard to go long enough without taking damage to activate it; and b) if I do activate it, it draws more hate than it's worth.
How has Luminarch Ascension been working out for you? I absolutely love the card, but have chosen not to run it in Kaalia because: a) I find it hard to go long enough without taking damage to activate it; and b) if I do activate it, it draws more hate than it's worth.
Well, I just included in my deck last week and didn't draw it during any of my games this weekend, I'll have to test it some more.
1 Kaalia of the Vast
Creatures (26)
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Angel of Despair
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Aegis Angel
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Karmic Guide
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Bladewing the Risen
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Moonveil Dragon
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Yosei the Morning Star
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Griselbrand
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Reaper from the Abyss
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants (8)
1 Sword to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Chaos Warp
1 Oblation
1 Mortify
1 Orim's Thunder
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Austere Command
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Terminus
1 Armageddon
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Promise of Power
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Unburial Rites
Artifacts (14)
1 Sol Ring
1 Orzohv Signet
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mimic Vat
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Erratic Portal
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Champion's Helm
1 Elbrus, the Binding Blade
Enchantments (3)
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 True Conviction
1 Luminarch Ascension
Lands (37)
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Temple of the False God
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 High Market
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
3 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Cifftop Retreat
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Fetid Heath
1 Graven Cairns
1 Rugged Praire
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Command Tower
I've tried to keep a balance between being competitive and just being mindless fun, hence some of the card choices, but I think I've ran out of ideas. Any suggestions on other cards or techs I could try?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Edit: Finally got Iona and Rakdos, updated the list with a lot of new cards.
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
I'm very satisfied with the performance of the deck so far, but I think there's still room for some improvement. Also there are some cards I thinking of taking out like Blood Speaker and Debtor's Knell since they haven't worked the way I thought they would.
Any suggestions?
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
also funny on bogardan hellkite
edit: also, with conspiracy you could swing and lay out any creature with kaalia.
Id also take out the signets. Your goal is to get 4 land, as long as you have 4 of the right color and hopefully greaves, you are good to go. So, lots of non basics, such as tap lands and bounce lands. With your amulet out you will barely even need kaalia if she manages to die.
Also, dragon tyrant is a must have.
Punishment Deck
This is terrible advice, OP I hope you don't take it. The Ravnican signets and other two drop mana rocks are what help Kaalia come out turn 3, or even turn 2 with a lucky start, and they fix two of your colours at the same time. Seriously, I'll never understand why people say "cut signets" they give you the chance to turn 1 into two of any colour. A Sol Ring makes four coloured mana with two of them also. 2 = (R/B)(R/W) any combination there!
And to recommend bouncelands, and tap lands, wtf dude. Those don't speed him up, they slow him down and cause him to lose massive tempo. Lots of non-basics? Because you want the OP to loose to Blood Moon/Back to Basics? :\
Dragon Tyrant is hardly an auto-include, I would even play an Akroma before him, and I don't even play either Akromas. They just don't do enough, and Tyrant does even less and demands one helluva upkeep if you want to swing with him again.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Actually, I think you right about the Akromas, they only hit hard, but I haven't found another worthy angels to take their place, and I don't want to include more non-angel, non-demon o non-dragon creatures than the ones I already have.
Fortunately I'm not afraid of cards like Back to Basics or Blood Moon since nobody in my playgroup uses them.
I've never ever considered using Dragon Tyrant, if Kaalia is tucked he almost uncastable and the upkeep cost is really high. I rejected Kuro, Pitlord for the same reason.
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
You must be stupid, because ive swung for up to 30 with just him and kaalia. You don't need to up keep him if you can get him back to your hand and swing again for free.
Not running non basics because of two cards in the game is pretty ****ing dumb too.
Explain to me how you would get kaalia out turn 3 without a bounce land.
Turn one command solring, turn two bounce command for say orzhov, turn 3 kaalia.
You dont know what you are talking about.
Punishment Deck
Actually, turn 2 kaalia goes like this:
1. Land, sol ring, signet or talisman
2. Lay another land, tap 5 mana and bring out kaalia
Turn 3 kaalia with haste goes like this:
1. Hall of the bandit lord
2. Land, signet
3. Land, tap 4 mana and hast form hall and drop kaalia.
The next best scenario is greaves out on turn 3, and kaalia out on turn 4. All of these scenarios require signets. And I also agree with the other guy. You may be playing against bad decks if your aforementioned advice is working.
Edits
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Alright, you guys win.
But signets are boring.
Punishment Deck
It's kind of fun when you see one of those opening hands though. It completely shifts how you can play your deck, especially against 1 or 2 other people.
Ramp is nice for hard casting the high costing a/d/d's if necessary.
What's bad about all that artifact ramp? Well, kaalia decks are also filled with a ton of a/d/d's too. Both the ramp and a/d/d's can become useless if kaalia is tucked or destroyed.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
I guess where my play group mostly consists of slow non-aggro decks, ive been able to get away with what im doing and never even considered a turn 2 kaalia.
I wanna apologize for calling you stupid 3drinks.
But i still think dragon tyrant is a boss.
Punishment Deck
Granted, 12 damage is nice, but how in the heck are you going to pay for 4 red as an upkeep cost that early? And if you could, what about anything else in your hand you would want to cast?
I see that your group may just not be putting enough pressure on you to make these kind of decisions yet.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
Swinging for damage is the most important aspect of a game? Odd, I always thought it was generating card advantage, and a steady board presence. Tyrant doesn't do that, and actually costs you resources. How exactly are you are you getting him back "for free"?
I've also been playing, tweaking, and mastering Kaalia of the Vast since the Commander product first came out. Feel free to check out the list in my sig for any advice my list can offer to your list.
Maybe so, but this is a three colour deck, I'm not going to let myself auto-lose to some cards, which are played by more people than you would think. Also, there is Magus of the Moon, Ruination, and cards like Global Ruin as well. Well more than just two cards.
Drizzle outlined that situation above this post.
Also, your turn 2 bounceland loses to my Wasteland. And then you are very sad as your tempo is screw all the hell up. Kaalia cannot afford such a drastic loss in early tempo. Maybe in other decks, but certainly not here.
edit: Okay, apology accepted Guias.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I prefer Moltensteel Dragon over Dragon Tyrant, granted he doesn't have double strike, but his Phyrebreathing is really stupid with True Conviction, add Grand Abolisher to the mix and you can pay almost all your life to kill somebody without worrying. That has won me lots of games.
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
I like the Moltensteel Dragon even less tbh. Yeah, he costs like a million mana less and doesn't "demand tribute" >_> but he just feels really...under whelming. Or win-more would be more accurate. He's only good when you're already winning. Though if he is working for you right now, I guess go for it then lol.
I think you're lacking in sweepers though, at least add in a Living Death to the mix. Maybe add a Hallowed Burial and a Decree of Pain. Decree especially as it just gives sooooooooooo much CA.
Obviously I'll mention some Swords, but you probably already knew that, and if you had them I imagine they'd be in here.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Never thought of moltensteel dragon in that way. It's similar to a hatred if used like that.
Kaalia's Army of Annhilation RWB
Obzedat, Ghost Council - Life Gain Matters WB
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord - Fatty Reanimator Toolbox BG
Nekusar, the Mindrazer - Draw to Die RBU
Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Pump and Tap GWR
Roon of the Hidden Realm - Blink to Bleed WBG
I used to run more sweepers, but usually my friends are the ones wanting to clear the table, not me.
Sadly you're right about the swords.
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
Living Death is also beneficial for you, can be like a one-sided wrath if your board is near empty. Decree of Pain is one helluva hand refill, but can be cycled early on to clear some early, small game dorks.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I just added it, I haven't played with it yet. I'll test it during the weekend and see how it goes.
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Well, I just included in my deck last week and didn't draw it during any of my games this weekend, I'll have to test it some more.
RGBKresh the Bloodbraided
RBWKaalia of the Vast