Alright, I have finally decided to play this deck again, and I have drastically updated the deck list. I took out a lot of the bad dragons/bulk. I put in even more ramp spells. My lands are better than ever. I would like suggestions again!
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Hello, still here (occasionally).
Did you have 1v1 or multiplay in mind when you changed the deck? Have you played in any 3-5 player games and how does this work there?
I do like the new setup as well, just thinking if it has chances in multiplay.
Another thing is that does the deck require so many dual lands? In all my 1-2 color decks I try to keep the amount of basics quite high as there are quite a bunch of blood moon, magus of the moon and ruinations going on in our playgroup. One Xiahou deck also incorporates Infernal Darkness and Contamination but basics don't help against those.
I would assume that it is still quite easy to get good color combinations with so many "search xxx land" -effects in the deck?
I think Karn Liberated is a good card for this, as it gives option to exile permanent, any permanent, possibly twice if you can protect him one turn. Mana shouldn't be a big problem with ramp anyways. I would prefer to keep Praetor's Counsel in as well, but might be hard to fit it in.
Why removal of Kiki-Jiki? I would think it is still pretty nice with Eternal Witness or other creatrures? What are your normal Tooth and nail - creatures you search, Urabrask? Kiki + Avenger of Zendikar might make a nice set of tokens, for example. Of course, it doesn't work with several legandary creatures that are in the deck.
For even more forest search, there is Three Visits :).
Hello, still here (occasionally).
Did you have 1v1 or multiplay in mind when you changed the deck? Have you played in any 3-5 player games and how does this work there?
I do like the new setup as well, just thinking if it has chances in multiplay.
Another thing is that does the deck require so many dual lands? In all my 1-2 color decks I try to keep the amount of basics quite high as there are quite a bunch of blood moon, magus of the moon and ruinations going on in our playgroup. One Xiahou deck also incorporates Infernal Darkness and Contamination but basics don't help against those.
I would assume that it is still quite easy to get good color combinations with so many "search xxx land" -effects in the deck?
I think Karn Liberated is a good card for this, as it gives option to exile permanent, any permanent, possibly twice if you can protect him one turn. Mana shouldn't be a big problem with ramp anyways. I would prefer to keep Praetor's Counsel in as well, but might be hard to fit it in.
Why removal of Kiki-Jiki? I would think it is still pretty nice with Eternal Witness or other creatrures? What are your normal Tooth and nail - creatures you search, Urabrask? Kiki + Avenger of Zendikar might make a nice set of tokens, for example. Of course, it doesn't work with several legandary creatures that are in the deck.
For even more forest search, there is Three Visits :).
The reason I run all the duals is because getting turn 2 Radha is critical for this deck. If I don't have both red and green on my opening hand, I'll have to mulligan. I also run a few colorless lands, so this makes the duals even more important. My meta isn't big on land destruction anyway.
I used to have Karn in here, but he was too difficult to protect, and I don't want to pay 7 for a removal spell when I could just run something more efficient like chaos warp. Even though this is a ramp deck, 7 for a sorcery speed exile is too much.
Kiki-Jiki is useless without anything else in play. When I do have good targets, it is win more most of the time. My tooth and nail targets are usually Urabrask+Ulamog. That's usually all I actually need to win.
Oh, and I don't run praetor's counsel because the eldrazi always tend to shuffle my graveyard back in. I already have eternal witness and regrowth for recursion, I think that's all I need.
I don't really need three visits. I already have enough ramp spells in here, and if anything, I would cut one of them.
Oh yeah, and this deck does well in multiplayer now that I added the extra draw spells. This deck is faster than just about any other multiplayer deck, but I realized that it was really lacking card advantage. Now I'm thinking about switching out eldrazi temple for a reliquary tower since I draw a lot more cards now. This deck has the potential to be an absolute beast in multiplayer. The other week, I got turn 3 primeval titan, and got out Garruk and draw 6 cards... and just dominated the entire game, it was pretty funny.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I would replace rampant growth with Three visits . Three visits allows you to search for dual land (taiga/stomping grounds) and the land is put on the battlefield untapped. Of course, you can't search straight mountain with Three visits, but two "real" duals should be enough for all those "forest card" ramps if you need a red mana (and with visits, you get to use it right away).
Good point about Eldrazi with the praetor's counsel. Probably not the best idea to keep counsel in deck.
I would still think Mana Crypt would be good in the deck. The games usually never last so long that the damage would be real killer. But you seem to avoid cards that do damage to yourself, as you do not have Ancient Tomb in the deck either. That is also nice land to make things go faster.
How about Hermit Druid? That would make sure you got your one land per round, also helping with the landfall stuff in the deck. With the eldrazi, your grave might be put back to deck. Not sure if that is a good or bad idea. This deck has only two ways to get cards back from graveyard, so it shouldn't be too big deal?
Would it be daft to put all 7 different fetches into the deck? That would enable the landfall even better, although it would be nasty with blood moon or similar in game. Maybe enhance them with Crucible of Worlds. This would be kinda similar to having Hermit druid in game though, and I think Hermit druid is much easier for the deck to find if needed. Landfall would love fetches, but there is only few landfall mobs in the deck anyways.
And good to hear it works in multiplayer as well :). We do not have that much straight land destruction, although one deck runs ruination. However, there are several "non-basics are now useless" -cards.
I would replace rampant growth with Three visits . Three visits allows you to search for dual land (taiga/stomping grounds) and the land is put on the battlefield untapped. Of course, you can't search straight mountain with Three visits, but two "real" duals should be enough for all those "forest card" ramps if you need a red mana (and with visits, you get to use it right away).
Good point about Eldrazi with the praetor's counsel. Probably not the best idea to keep counsel in deck.
I would still think Mana Crypt would be good in the deck. The games usually never last so long that the damage would be real killer. But you seem to avoid cards that do damage to yourself, as you do not have Ancient Tomb in the deck either. That is also nice land to make things go faster.
How about Hermit Druid? That would make sure you got your one land per round, also helping with the landfall stuff in the deck. With the eldrazi, your grave might be put back to deck. Not sure if that is a good or bad idea. This deck has only two ways to get cards back from graveyard, so it shouldn't be too big deal?
Would it be daft to put all 7 different fetches into the deck? That would enable the landfall even better, although it would be nasty with blood moon or similar in game. Maybe enhance them with Crucible of Worlds. This would be kinda similar to having Hermit druid in game though, and I think Hermit druid is much easier for the deck to find if needed. Landfall would love fetches, but there is only few landfall mobs in the deck anyways.
And good to hear it works in multiplayer as well :). We do not have that much straight land destruction, although one deck runs ruination. However, there are several "non-basics are now useless" -cards.
I'm not about to spend 17 bucks for a situationally better rampant growth. I already have enough cards that search for forests anyway, and I have plenty of basics, so it really isn't an issue for me.
I'm not a fan of mana crypt. In multiplayer, games DO last long. I already have a pretty ridiculous amount of ramp as it is. I also have temple of the false god, so ancient tomb isn't needed.
Hermit druid... meh. I'm never going to miss land drops since I have an absurd amount of ramp. The ramp spells also cover the landfall quite nicely.
Eh, I don't own all 7 fetches for the deck. I don't really want to spend the money on them since they aren't really needed. They wouldn't make the deck THAT much better. And I would have to buy crucible as well.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Ok, I was mostly thinking theoretically, i.e. where money isn't a concern. Of course getting 7 fetches isn't very high in the list if they provide only small effect.
Temple is a good one, had forgotten that one.
Few last ideas: Yavimaya Hollow for your best creature against wrath effects (even your own). Azusa, lost but seeking would give you 2 extra land drops the turn you cast her and is possible to tutor. Burgeoning would probably be even better than Azusa when playing in multiplayer games. Exploration would be for 1vs1.
You have probably thought about these as well, but decided to not to include any. Would it be functional to remove some of the "search for 1 land" ramps and include burgeoning, for example? Or do you ever keep so many lands in hand that burgeoning would help more than one land-to-battlefield search?
Ok, I was mostly thinking theoretically, i.e. where money isn't a concern. Of course getting 7 fetches isn't very high in the list if they provide only small effect.
Temple is a good one, had forgotten that one.
Few last ideas: Yavimaya Hollow for your best creature against wrath effects (even your own). Azusa, lost but seeking would give you 2 extra land drops the turn you cast her and is possible to tutor. Burgeoning would probably be even better than Azusa when playing in multiplayer games. Exploration would be for 1vs1.
You have probably thought about these as well, but decided to not to include any. Would it be functional to remove some of the "search for 1 land" ramps and include burgeoning, for example? Or do you ever keep so many lands in hand that burgeoning would help more than one land-to-battlefield search?
I actually never really have that many lands in my hand for things like Azuza and burgeoning to be effective. I would usually just rather have an actual ramp spell.
I actually like Yavimaya hollow. I'll have to see if I can find a copy somewhere.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Some random cards again: Sylvan Scrying for unconditional land search? It is worse than straight to battlefield land tutors, but can search for eye of ugin, for example. Sylvan Tutor for additional creature search? It is sorcery though, and puts card on the top of library, so it prefers some card draw afterwards. However, it is pretty cheap to cast and unconditional search. Worse than Worldly tutor, is there any need for more creature search in the deck?
Of course, Primal Command would probably be better as well. I just don't know what to remove for it.
I'm working on getting a primal command for this deck. Chord of calling would also be better than sylvan tutor, but I think once I get primal command, I should be good.
Not sure how good Omnath is. It only works for green mana. Plus he dies to removal, unlike other ramp spells. I'd run him in a mono green deck, but probably not this deck.
Sylvan scrying could be an option. A lot of the time I am able to get primeval titan on the board, making it irrelevant. I'm honestly not sure which utility lands I would actually need in the early game though.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Kiki + Conscripts could be pretty nice. At the moment there arent any infinite combos in the deck (which, I admit, might be a positive point for many) and kiki + conscripts are both cards that wouldn't be useless without the other.
However, I have hard time thinking what two cards could be removed from the deck as is.
Would it be daft to remove Awakening zone for either Kiki or Conscripts? The second card I would remove would be the Curse, but I don't have that one anymore and Garruk has worked nicely on ramping AND giving me quite early blockers, so would like to leave that one in... hard choices.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Did you have 1v1 or multiplay in mind when you changed the deck? Have you played in any 3-5 player games and how does this work there?
I do like the new setup as well, just thinking if it has chances in multiplay.
Another thing is that does the deck require so many dual lands? In all my 1-2 color decks I try to keep the amount of basics quite high as there are quite a bunch of blood moon, magus of the moon and ruinations going on in our playgroup. One Xiahou deck also incorporates Infernal Darkness and Contamination but basics don't help against those.
I would assume that it is still quite easy to get good color combinations with so many "search xxx land" -effects in the deck?
I think Karn Liberated is a good card for this, as it gives option to exile permanent, any permanent, possibly twice if you can protect him one turn. Mana shouldn't be a big problem with ramp anyways. I would prefer to keep Praetor's Counsel in as well, but might be hard to fit it in.
Why removal of Kiki-Jiki? I would think it is still pretty nice with Eternal Witness or other creatrures? What are your normal Tooth and nail - creatures you search, Urabrask? Kiki + Avenger of Zendikar might make a nice set of tokens, for example. Of course, it doesn't work with several legandary creatures that are in the deck.
For even more forest search, there is Three Visits :).
The reason I run all the duals is because getting turn 2 Radha is critical for this deck. If I don't have both red and green on my opening hand, I'll have to mulligan. I also run a few colorless lands, so this makes the duals even more important. My meta isn't big on land destruction anyway.
I used to have Karn in here, but he was too difficult to protect, and I don't want to pay 7 for a removal spell when I could just run something more efficient like chaos warp. Even though this is a ramp deck, 7 for a sorcery speed exile is too much.
Kiki-Jiki is useless without anything else in play. When I do have good targets, it is win more most of the time. My tooth and nail targets are usually Urabrask+Ulamog. That's usually all I actually need to win.
Oh, and I don't run praetor's counsel because the eldrazi always tend to shuffle my graveyard back in. I already have eternal witness and regrowth for recursion, I think that's all I need.
I don't really need three visits. I already have enough ramp spells in here, and if anything, I would cut one of them.
Oh yeah, and this deck does well in multiplayer now that I added the extra draw spells. This deck is faster than just about any other multiplayer deck, but I realized that it was really lacking card advantage. Now I'm thinking about switching out eldrazi temple for a reliquary tower since I draw a lot more cards now. This deck has the potential to be an absolute beast in multiplayer. The other week, I got turn 3 primeval titan, and got out Garruk and draw 6 cards... and just dominated the entire game, it was pretty funny.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Good point about Eldrazi with the praetor's counsel. Probably not the best idea to keep counsel in deck.
I would still think Mana Crypt would be good in the deck. The games usually never last so long that the damage would be real killer. But you seem to avoid cards that do damage to yourself, as you do not have Ancient Tomb in the deck either. That is also nice land to make things go faster.
How about Hermit Druid? That would make sure you got your one land per round, also helping with the landfall stuff in the deck. With the eldrazi, your grave might be put back to deck. Not sure if that is a good or bad idea. This deck has only two ways to get cards back from graveyard, so it shouldn't be too big deal?
Would it be daft to put all 7 different fetches into the deck? That would enable the landfall even better, although it would be nasty with blood moon or similar in game. Maybe enhance them with Crucible of Worlds. This would be kinda similar to having Hermit druid in game though, and I think Hermit druid is much easier for the deck to find if needed. Landfall would love fetches, but there is only few landfall mobs in the deck anyways.
And good to hear it works in multiplayer as well :). We do not have that much straight land destruction, although one deck runs ruination. However, there are several "non-basics are now useless" -cards.
I'm not about to spend 17 bucks for a situationally better rampant growth. I already have enough cards that search for forests anyway, and I have plenty of basics, so it really isn't an issue for me.
I'm not a fan of mana crypt. In multiplayer, games DO last long. I already have a pretty ridiculous amount of ramp as it is. I also have temple of the false god, so ancient tomb isn't needed.
Hermit druid... meh. I'm never going to miss land drops since I have an absurd amount of ramp. The ramp spells also cover the landfall quite nicely.
Eh, I don't own all 7 fetches for the deck. I don't really want to spend the money on them since they aren't really needed. They wouldn't make the deck THAT much better. And I would have to buy crucible as well.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Temple is a good one, had forgotten that one.
Few last ideas:
Yavimaya Hollow for your best creature against wrath effects (even your own).
Azusa, lost but seeking would give you 2 extra land drops the turn you cast her and is possible to tutor.
Burgeoning would probably be even better than Azusa when playing in multiplayer games. Exploration would be for 1vs1.
You have probably thought about these as well, but decided to not to include any. Would it be functional to remove some of the "search for 1 land" ramps and include burgeoning, for example? Or do you ever keep so many lands in hand that burgeoning would help more than one land-to-battlefield search?
I actually never really have that many lands in my hand for things like Azuza and burgeoning to be effective. I would usually just rather have an actual ramp spell.
I actually like Yavimaya hollow. I'll have to see if I can find a copy somewhere.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Sylvan Scrying for unconditional land search? It is worse than straight to battlefield land tutors, but can search for eye of ugin, for example.
Sylvan Tutor for additional creature search? It is sorcery though, and puts card on the top of library, so it prefers some card draw afterwards. However, it is pretty cheap to cast and unconditional search. Worse than Worldly tutor, is there any need for more creature search in the deck?
Of course, Primal Command would probably be better as well. I just don't know what to remove for it.
Would Omnath, Locus of Mana help in this deck?
Not sure how good Omnath is. It only works for green mana. Plus he dies to removal, unlike other ramp spells. I'd run him in a mono green deck, but probably not this deck.
Sylvan scrying could be an option. A lot of the time I am able to get primeval titan on the board, making it irrelevant. I'm honestly not sure which utility lands I would actually need in the early game though.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Or Planechase?
I didn't see anything that special to change into this deck myself, but maybe I missed something... Dragonlair Spider, Thromok the Insatiable?
I don't think either of those cards fit in a deck like this.
As for the new sets... I don't know. I don't think anything actually really fits the theme of this deck. maybe kiki/conscripts for an infinite combo.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
However, I have hard time thinking what two cards could be removed from the deck as is.
The changes I have made for my own deck are as follows:
- Primordial Hydra + Scavenging Ooze
- Rampant Growth + Hermit Druid
- Curse of Bloodletting + Garruk Wildspeaker
- Fierce Empath + Primal Command
- Reflecting Pool, Copperline Gorge, Kazandu Refuge, Eldrazi Temple
+ Ancient Tomb, Grove of the Burnwillows, Kher Keep, Yavimaya Hollow
Would it be daft to remove Awakening zone for either Kiki or Conscripts? The second card I would remove would be the Curse, but I don't have that one anymore and Garruk has worked nicely on ramping AND giving me quite early blockers, so would like to leave that one in... hard choices.