MTG Salvation

This isn't a very friendly deck as you can see. I'm trying to deal as much damage as possible with a bit of mana denial and discard for disruption. I break the synergy of many of these spells by gaining life and dealing damage directly to my opponents without hurting myself using Kaerveck and certain spells like Underworld Dreams & Painful Quandry. The deck has some cute interactions:

Bloodchief Ascension - This can come online very quickly with stuff like Ankh of Mishra, Spellshock, Sulfuric Vortex, etc. From there I can cast Obliterate or probably just kill everyone but me with Death Cloud.

Stuffy Doll + Furnace of Wrath - The furnace quadruples damage done to the doll before dealing damage to the chosen opponent making this a very bad position for someone to be in.

Changelog

Thinking about

Cool deck.

I think you have too many equipments.One should go out.

Phyrexian reclamation could be preatty good in this deck. Also, Gamble doesnt seem like a bad option if you need more tutors. You have recursion anyways.

I think Hell's caretaker is too slow. You are better off getting your creatures from your graveyard to your hand and recast them. They are very cheap anyways. You need something like Chainer or Becon of Unreast or Ink Eyes since you are planing to kill any creature in play. inkeyes and Nether Traitor is a cool tech.

It that betrays is good in any sacrifice deck

Eldrazi Spawn cards like Pawn of Ulamog don't seem to fit in your deck because Lyzolda relies on the creatures being black and/or red. Even if you could reliably change their colors, they wouldn't be worth it IMO.

Cards for consideration: 8
Contamination (wins games if its out for long enough, and you have repeatable token effects)
darkest hour (makes all of your creatures draw you cards)
nivynerral's disk (one of the best sweepers available)
Dawn of the Dead (reusable effect, that works amazing with your general and self-sacrificers, amazing with doomed necromancer, hell's caretaker, fulminator mage, and others)
Ingot Chewer (you can put his ETB effect on the stack and sacrifice him to lyzolda)
Butcher of Malikar (gravepact on a stick anyone?)
Gravepact (savra's effect on an enchantment)
Stalking Vengeance (wins games and beats down, unlike the shadows)

Suggestive cuts: 8
pawn of ulamog (doesn't make red or black tokens)
Blade of the Bloodchief (doesn't seem powerful enough)
Oblivion Stone (disk is usually better)
Fulminator Mage (Repeatable effects are best in multiplayer, keep if you add dawn of the dead)
Kathari Bomber (makes only red tokens and costs a lot to do it)
Warp World (too unpredictable, and you may not have enough stuff to cheat into play with it)
2 Lands (I usually start with 40 and wind up cutting 2 for more stuff to play, and obey the rule of -1 land for every 2 other sources)

Hope I helped.

Lots of really good advice guys. I'll try and cover the cards individually.

Adds
Phyrexian Reclamation - Seems really good, I like this more than Undertaker and the effect is similar so easy swap.
Gamble - I think you are right, this is probably excellent. Will find room for it.
Chainer/Beacon/Ink Eyes - Of these I like Ink Eyes the best however I already have a couple cards that have a similar effect that I like better (Puppeteer Clique, Coffin Queen) so I'll hold off for now.
It That Betrays - Since I'm hardly using any reanimation and my deck isn't set up too well to get this guy in the grave I'll usually end up paying retail for him which is just too much mana I think.
Contamination - I really wanted to get this in here (like really badly) but it shuts me off from red and there are a reasonable number of monoblack decks in my meta so sadly I am not going to include it.
Darkest Hour - If it didn't make my creatures unred I'd definitely include it but it shuts off Lyzolda's ability to shock stuff. I wish there was something in these colors that would only turn some of my creatures black or red that didn't suck tremendously bad (Alchor's Tomb sucks) but I don't think there is.
Nevinyrral's Disk - I don't like the Disk much because it comes into play tapped. I've played with it a lot but that was before All is Dust was printed and I don't think I need a 3rd colorless sweeper.
Dawn of the Dead - This seems awesome. I didn't include Corpse Dance since I felt it would be a bit too mana intensive but Dawn is perfect.
Ingot Chewer - I do need artifact destruction on a body, good call.
Butcher of Malakir - I'll see if I can find room.
Grave Pact - Was already on the list.
Stalking Vengeance - I thought about this guy a lot. He might be great but my thinking was that all my creatures are pitifully small (seriously Mindslicer has the highest printed power of all my creatures) so he's mostly just pinging people. After I've run the deck a few times I will know if I need any more ways to finish people off and this guy is at the top of the list.

Cuts
Hell's Caretaker - Agreed, slow and only being limited to upkeep makes him bad.
Pawn of Ulamog - I actually expect this guy to be excellent. Lyzolda is one of my worst sac outlets, ideally I'll have something much better in play and none of my other sac outlets care about color. He'll stay for now and I will see how he performs.
Blade of the Bloodchief - This was on a lot of other Lyzolda lists which is the reason I included it. It does however seem pretty slow, may add it back in to try it out at some point but for now it goes.
Oblivion Stone - I like this better than Disk personally and I do need 2 colorless sweepers.
Fulminator Mage - I already have Shivan Harvest to go with Dawn of the Dead and I think you are right that this is a safe cut.
Kathari Bomber - OK, I will cut him.
Warp World - This is one of the rare cases where I am willing to sacrifice power for fun. It should still be pretty good since many of the decks in my meta are spell heavy, I put it in more as a way to reduce my opponents permanent count and it should be pretty good with Braids and Smokestack.
2 land - I like to err on the side of caution when I build my manabase but I think you are correct so I will cut a couple lands.

End result
-Undertaker
-Hell's Caretaker
-Blade of the Bloodchief
-Fulminator Mage
-Kathari Bomber
-Swamp
-Mountain
+Phyrexian Reclamation
+Gamble
+Dawn of the Dead
+Ingot Chewer

I'm only 4 cards over now, making progress.

EDIT: Also going to remove Deathrender and Liliana so only 2 cards to go.
EDIT 2: No cards over, list is finished and ready for testing.

I have played Lyzolda for a long time and hopefully some of these tips will help you out.

+Horobi, Death's Wail (machine gun on a recurrable dude)

+Fulminator Mage (I dont like to abuse land destro effects which is what harvest does...i do like to be able to shut down broken lands at will which is what a recurrable dude does for you)

+Butcher of Malakir....gives you a copy of the best effect in the deck.

+Victimize....sack bloodghast for 2 better guys...yes please

+Buried Alive....another tutor for bloodghast, nether traitor, and squee or get 3 utility guys late when you are set up with dance of the dead, phrexian reclaimation, or tortured existance.

+Kagemaro, First to Suffer....reusable wrath effect...self sacking

Suggested Cuts

-Shivan Harvest (i like fulminator mage better)

-Quietus Spike (for horobi, Death wail...strict upgrade imo)

-Gobling welder (for buried alive..underwhelming....our artifacts are not good enough for him focus on recurring our dudes..thats our strength)

-anger (for butcher....imo haste isnt a huge deal for us)

-yawgmoth's will (for vitimize....most the time we will get more with victimize then will)

-thought gorger (for kagemaro...i tried gorger after seeing this and have never wanted to cast him....i even like malfegor better)

alot of your deck looks like mine and it seems we have very similar tastes in the way we like to run lyzolda. Lemme know what you think.. I think I will try to post my deck here to get this thread going again. I love lyzolda so much and would really like to see some constructive ideas

on a parting note i also like attrition, faceless butcher, and Shriekmaw in this deck....

Quote from happyrock

I have played Lyzolda for a long time and hopefully some of these tips will help you out.

+Horobi, Death's Wail (machine gun on a recurrable dude)
Awesome. I missed this guy when I put the list together, will add in.

+Fulminator Mage (I dont like to abuse land destro effects which is what harvest does...i do like to be able to shut down broken lands at will which is what a recurrable dude does for you)
I haven't really like Shivan Harvest so far so I'm fine cutting it. Have you tried out Goblin Settler and/or Avalanche Riders yet? I don't like that you can't sac the mage to Lyzolda and still get his ability.

+Butcher of Malakir....gives you a copy of the best effect in the deck.
7 mana is a lot for an easily killed Gravepact. He's a creature so he can be recurred but I've been happy with the amount of removal I have so far so I'll hold off.

+Victimize....sack bloodghast for 2 better guys...yes please
Definitely feel like I need more reanimation and this is fantastic. Will add.

+Buried Alive....another tutor for bloodghast, nether traitor, and squee or get 3 utility guys late when you are set up with dance of the dead, phrexian reclaimation, or tortured existance.
I'm sold. Will add.

+Kagemaro, First to Suffer....reusable wrath effect...self sacking
He kills my general though and I'm happy with my amount of removal.

Suggested Cuts

-Shivan Harvest (i like fulminator mage better)
OK, cut.

-Quietus Spike (for horobi, Death wail...strict upgrade imo)
OK, cut.

-Gobling welder (for buried alive..underwhelming....our artifacts are not good enough for him focus on recurring our dudes..thats our strength)
I had one in my binder for years now and never used him. Since I so rarely build red decks I wanted to play him but you're right, he isn't very good so he's out.

-anger (for butcher....imo haste isnt a huge deal for us)
Hadn't thought about cutting Anger. Guess I'll see how much I like In the Web of War and add him back in if I want more haste.

-yawgmoth's will (for vitimize....most the time we will get more with victimize then will)
Yawgmoth's Will is more dependent on having lots of mana but it is pretty ridiculous if you have enough. This deck can consistently make land drops so in the late game this can be extremely strong. It also has a pretty low curve so you should be netting pretty good card advantage.

-thought gorger (for kagemaro...i tried gorger after seeing this and have never wanted to cast him....i even like malfegor better)
I've really liked this guy so far. Now gamebreaking or anything but you can repeatedly cycle through your hand while filling your graveyard with a little reanimation. He also protects from mass discard and Mind Twist type cards which are pretty heavily played in my group.

alot of your deck looks like mine and it seems we have very similar tastes in the way we like to run lyzolda. Lemme know what you think.. I think I will try to post my deck here to get this thread going again. I love lyzolda so much and would really like to see some constructive ideas

on a parting note i also like attrition, faceless butcher, and Shriekmaw in this deck....
Adequate removal already for my group. If anything I probably need more artifact destruction.

Put my responses in bold. There are a few more cards I'm wanting to add so the changes will be:

+Heartstone
It really only works with Lyzolda but cuts her cost in half. I found myself using her pretty much constantly so I want to try this out to make her more cost effective.
+Wake of Destruction
I'll put this in for Shivan Harvest. Kind of narrow but really stomps on monocolored decks and there are quite a few in my group.
+Abyssal Persecutor
I normally don't like random big creatures but this guy is huge and evasive for 4 mana. The drawback shouldn't be a problem with all the sac outlets.
+Dragonmaster Outcast
Another finisher. I've cast this guy twice and he's been immediately hit by spot removal both times. A 1 drop that draws removal spells is really good.
+Horobi, Death's Wail
Obviously so awesome Goblin Sharpshooter and Deathbringer Thoctar.
+Buried Alive
Tutors are always welcome.
+Victimize
+Swamp
+Mountain
+Graven Cairns
+Wasteland
+Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
More basics and fixing to replace some of the artifact mana and weaker lands.
-Keldon Necropolis
-Shivan Havest
-Anger
-Goblin Welder
-Vault of Whispers
-Great Furnace
-Crypt of Agadeem
-Veinfire Borderpost
-Quietus Spike
-Crucible of Worlds
-Smokestack
It's just too slow.
-Pithing Needle
I don't want to cut Pithing Needle but can't think of anything else.

I think a lot of the disruption choices depend on playgroup. The additional creature control probably is the right choice for your group but for the group I play with the amount of removal has been enough. The deck has been running pretty smooth but I really felt there was a lack of finishing power so I tried to increase the number of finishers. Obviously I went way overboard on my Welder package so that has been removed.

M11 has Grave Titan and possibly Reassembling Skeletons as options and I'll probably swap out Ingot Chewer for Manic Vandal

So I've had plenty of time to playtest but the deck isn't doing as well as I hoped. I decided to cut out the token theme almost entirely as Bloodghast, Reassembling Skeleton and Krovikan Horror fuel Lyzolda just fine. To replace the token theme I added in a punisher/damage theme along with some lifegain to hopefully stay ahead in the damage race. Did some gatherer searching but probably missed some things.

Changed out:

• Spinerock Knoll
  
• Springjack Pasture
  
• Goblin Assault
  
• Pawn of Ulamog
  
• Murderous Redcap
  
• Victimize
  
• Skeletal Vampire
  
• Tombstone Stairwell
  
• Warp World
  
• Sarkhan the Mad
  
• Gratuitous Violence
  
• Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder
  
• Helm of Possession
  
• Deathbringer Thoctar
  
• Horobi, Death's Wail
  
• In the Web of War
  
• Dragonmaster Outcast
  
• Sadistic Hypnotist
  
• Mindslicer

Changed in:

• Darksteel Ingot
  
• Miren, the Moaning Well
  
• Omen of Fire
  
• Wound Reflection
  
• Ankh of Mishra
  
• Zo-Zu, the Punisher
  
• Underworld Dreams
  
• Death Cloud
  
• Pox
  
• Contamination
  
• Manabarbs
  
• Polluted Bonds
  
• Myojin of Nights Reach
  
• Sulfuric Vortex
  
• Obliterate
  
• Exsanguinate
  
• Suffer the Past
  
• Inferno Titan
  
• Phyrexian Arena

My previous update was pretty successful in making the deck how I wanted it but I started to notice Lyzolda not doing much and me wanting to push the punisher theme more. I decided that I should switch to a more appropriate general in Kaervek, the Merciless and fully support the punisher theme. The OP has a rough list of the new version of this deck but I could definitely use some feedback. There is a small land destruction theme and I am purposefully avoiding cards that can potentially help my opponents like Spiteful Visions. Also thinking of cutting out more creatures and running things like Spreading Plague and Lethal Vapors however that would make it much more difficult to get Kaervek in play.

Quote from Donald

My previous update was pretty successful in making the deck how I wanted it but I started to notice Lyzolda not doing much and me wanting to push the punisher theme more. I decided that I should switch to a more appropriate general in Kaervek, the Merciless and fully support the punisher theme. The OP has a rough list of the new version of this deck but I could definitely use some feedback. There is a small land destruction theme and I am purposefully avoiding cards that can potentially help my opponents like Spiteful Visions. Also thinking of cutting out more creatures and running things like Spreading Plague and Lethal Vapors however that would make it much more difficult to get Kaervek in play.

Maybe if you look cards like Breath of Malfegor (kinda like Exanguinate) that can punish everybody at the same time and adding things like Furnace of Rath or Wound reflection could be really nasty . They will be all at low life and nobody will do the first move to mess with you. They will be all affraid to get that final blow. This deck is going to bring TONS of hate, you you better be ready for it. Wildfire sounds like a interesting card for this deck. I also notice that you have many gamebreking sorcery spells...so, what about Mirari?

Quote from ilcapo

Maybe if you look cards like Breath of Malfegor (kinda like Exanguinate) that can punish everybody at the same time and adding things like Furnace of Rath or Wound reflection could be really nasty . They will be all at low life and nobody will do the first move to mess with you. They will be all affraid to get that final blow. This deck is going to bring TONS of hate, you you better be ready for it. Wildfire sounds like a interesting card for this deck. I also notice that you have many gamebreking sorcery spells...so, what about Mirari?

I don't think Breath of Malfegor does enough for the cost. Wound Reflection is in but I left out Furnace of Rath because I don't want to make myself an even bigger target but you're probably right that it deserves a slot. Mirari is very interesting, I will have to look into some type of Fork spell but I think Mirari costs a bit too much mana.

So I picked up a Chains of Mephistopheles but I don't feel my deck is set up to get the best use of it right now. The only replacement I found that would get around it is Abundance (using the 2 together in G/B seems very good) but I am not in green and Dredge (but mostly crappy options there). So what I need to do is reduce my actual card drawing to the bare minimum so I am mostly unaffected but I still need was to generate card advantage without actually drawing cards. Not so much spells that x for 1 my opponents but more along the lines of generating an advantage for me so that I don't run out of steam as quickly and am still able to refuel my hand in some way. So far I have:

Recoup
Necropotence
Armillary Sphere
Journeyer's Kite
Night Dealings

I'm trying to keep the mana costs down (so Planar Portal costs too much) and use stuff that isn't creature based because of Repercussion (Dimir House Guard + Phyrexian Reclamation for example). Is there anything good I'm missing for this? Also I'm aware of the Anvil of Bogardan interaction but that card is terrible without Chains so I'm probably not going to use it.

Ohhhh man Donald you are "That Guy" in your meta arent you?

Mean as hell deck though. I was sort of surprised to not see Inferno just because it is sort of an instant speed wrath spell that also nukes players life totals.

I could also see Ashling the Pilgrim being very solid as she can apply a lot of early game pressure and blow up to do some damage to life totals when need be. Unfortunately she is kinda mana intensive to keep track of.

I am extremely fortunate (or unfortunate depending on your viewpoint I guess) to play with multiple That Guys in my playgroup. I'd even go so far as to say I am not the biggest griefer in the group. I have to play against Humility, Obliterate, Infernal Darkness/Contamination, Static Orb/Winter Orb soft locks, Sneak Attack + Eldrazi Titans, hell just Sneak Attack by itself, Worldslayer.dec (it's bad though), multiple dedicated mass LD decks, Gaddock Teeg and Teferi as a generals...yeah they aren't in a very good position to complain about me. I even had to play against Limited Resources before it was banned. Do not feel pity for them.

Inferno is a good call but I worry that it kills my general and Ashling is a little to mana intensive in my very mana hungry deck. I could cut out Starstorm for Earthquake though, that seems like an upgrade.

Keep in mind that Starstorm hits flyers and Earthquake does not. Other than that yes I believe that might be a good call.

Teferi's Puzzle Box would also be a bit of a dick move as it combos itself into Underworld Dreams very quickly. It is a bit of a crazy card though because you will see the best cards of each of your opponents decks played every turn while you let it run its course. It is sort of funny though because if you have Manabarbs in play people will be tapping down a ton of mana every turn because its a use it or loose it sort of game once the box hits play.

Quote from ISBPathfinder

Keep in mind that Starstorm hits flyers and Earthquake does not. Other than that yes I believe that might be a good call.

Teferi's Puzzle Box would also be a bit of a dick move as it combos itself into Underworld Dreams very quickly. It is a bit of a crazy card though because you will see the best cards of each of your opponents decks played every turn while you let it run its course. It is sort of funny though because if you have Manabarbs in play people will be tapping down a ton of mana every turn because its a use it or loose it sort of game once the box hits play.

Or Kaerveck in play! It's a pretty hard lock with Chains of Mephistopheles in play too, I'll definitely have to find room to try it out. Great suggestion.

Hey Donald! It's me again!

I've been totally considering building a dedicated "hateful" Rakdos deck for my meta (which sort of stems from building the Boros deck). Basically, our metagame has been in "arms race" mode for too long. I generally break the silence by comboing out with Dralnu, but for the most part, it's how everyone plays (and is encouraged to play). Well, I don't really want to play their game, so I wanted to shake things up a bit through another method other than combo: mass disruption. I used to run a Jund deck that was based on blowing up permanents over and over again, but that deck really wasn't dedicated enough.

Looking over your list, it's a good start for what I want to accomplish, but I want to be a tad more mean. I'm thinking about running more Blood Moon effects, recursive artifact destruction, and some more land destruction. My biggest concern, then, is once you've gunked up the board with a bunch of painful effects - what is the most common way to win? Can you think of any reliable "one-two" punches that can put the game away with Rakdos? Seems like you can almost burn out the table with cards like Fault Line, Comet Storm, and Molten Disaster, coupled with Reverberate and Reiterate effects (which are good on their own merit).

I still haven't tested this deck too much since I switched generals but the general idea is to either drop Kaerveck and have him add to all the damaging effects and then X spell everyone out or drop some combination of Sulfuric Vortex, Ankh of Mishra, Sorin, Polluted Bonds, Furnace of Rath, Bloodchief Ascension (online), Spellshock, Underworld Dreams, Mana Barbs, Black Market and/or Vicious Shadows and then blow up the world with Death Cloud or Obliterate. You could go more towards the second route with more land destruction and more mana rocks but winning via X spells in a deck with lots of land destruction and no ramp or flares is going to be rough.

Honestly, I dont know how much making it jund would improve it. I feel like Kaervek as the commander is a great perc as you have one of your hate effects avalible to you all the time.

If you were to change it to jund I am guessing you would go with Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund as a decent beater / finisher or Xira Arien for the optional extra card draw.

Some of the nice additions you would recieve adding green would be Hurricane effects but you already have a lot of options similar to that in red. Honestly I would just run it as a Kaervek deck as well.

@Donald

I actually was not gonna go crazy with LD, I just wanted to add moon effects to hose the more dangerous decks in my meta. The list will stay pretty true to "punishment", as I wanted to make a point against those playing Primeval and Consecrated Sphinx lol. But I'd be interested to hear your results after youve played it some. I'm gonna build it for this Friday when I go to my LGS, so I'll let you know how it goes.

@ISBPathfinder

I think you misread my post lol. I have no intentions of turning this into jund. Rather, the only difference is that I wanted to make a few meta choices that included a larger suite of artifact destruction (we run lots of artifact ramp) and moon effects to shut down greedy mana bases. I also added some more spot removal - our meta isn't very creature heavy, but as I've mentioned, there are a ton of Primevals, sphinxes, and the likes.

Quote from Beuford k. Partridge

It was my first idea to build Kaervek that way before I found a more suitable path for me with him.

Want to show us what direction you took the deck in? I'm interested to hear.

Quote from Beuford k. Partridge

Im wondering how those 2 damage nudges work out for you? It was my first idea to build Kaervek that way before I found a more suitable path for me with him.

Also, do you equip the Darksteel plate to Kaervek? I have a whole bunch of Mind Control(and such) players in my area so I learned to not use it anymore..
How does your Night Dealings work out for you? Still not sure if it is a good one unless your costs are about the same.

Have you ever tried out Void? It is great against those Sword of [insert here] decks.

I also love Painful Quandary.. it makes playing a card with Kaervek out even more fun.

The little nudges don't do much on their own but working together they can start chipping away at people to get them low enough to start getting them within quake range. My group plays mostly controllish decks and this strategy is pretty effective against them but I just recently changed my general and most of the deck so I haven't playtested it enough to say for sure if I want to keep them. What do you think I should add in for them?

Darksteel Plate - The only control magic effect I run into much is Vedalken Shackles and sometimes Helm of Possession and those I can smash so I'm not too worried about him getting stolen. Still not sure if this is needed though but I want to try it out.

Night Dealings - I was mostly looking for a way to get more cards in my hand with Chains of Mephistopheles in play but this can get counters on it very quickly with all the continuous damage sources I have. With some support it can function as a cheaper Planar Portal here.

Void - Void seems ok but it would dealing with artifacts more often than creatures and I'd rather run something more focused for that. It also can blow up my mana rocks which is annoying.

Painful Quandry - I like this, very on theme for the deck. I'll cut Starstorm for now and hopefully I still have enough sweepers in the deck.

Sweet! The cards that I really like from your list are Cabal Conditioning, Consuming Vapors, and Nightmare Incursion.

Quote from Beuford k. Partridge

Nightmare Incursion is pretty much a place holder for Praetor's Grasp.. since I have no Urborg it is a rather expansive preemptive removal. Consume Vapors on an Uril, the miststalker is great.

Might try out Sadistic Sacrament instead. You'll be able to cast it sooner despite the BBB cost and it's great at removing critical cards early. Late game kicking it will really cripple someone too.