Feel free to suggest improvements. The deck plays fairly fast. Zerg your enemies or combo out with
Kiki-Jiki + (Lightning Crafter and free Sac Outlet(Skirk Prospector or Goblin Sledder)
I think I'll have to squeeze in Demonic Consultation. Need a few more tutors. I have a blast playing this deck. The goblin horde which it belches forth is relentless
You are absolutely correct. The last game I played unfortunately I had a Mox Opal in my opening hand with only 1 other artifact. It was a dead card for the first 4 turns. Then it was slightly useful after Necrologia for 15 and Ad Naseum for another 12 or so next turn. I can pitch it to Kuldotha Rebirth and Welder it for something useful so it is not entirely a dead card if I can't hit metalcraft. But I do think I need to up the artifact count.
My son plays Wort and has complained lately that the deck seems to have been left behind as players in our group make ever more powerful decks. His major complaint is that goblin aggro, as good as it is, has a hard time taking down a table and Kiki-Jiki is usually exiled as soon as it hits the table or activates.
Lately, his only wins are coming off of Living Death and then only when other players don't have a mass sac outlet on board.
He really loves his goblins and is not interested in building another deck. Any suggestions for game-enders that don't include Kiki-Jiki?
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Current EDH Generals: WAvacyn, Angel of Hope|UAzami, Lady of Scrolls|B| Ob Nixilis, the Fallen|R Daretti, Scrap Savant|GEzuri, Renegade Leader|WUBrago, King Eternal|UBGrimgrin, Corpse-born|BR Wort, Boggart Auntie|RGUlasht, the Hate Seed|GW Captain Sisay|WBGhost Council of Orzhova|BGGlissa, the Traitor|GUExperiment Kraj|URMelek, Izzet Paragon RWJor Kadeen, the Prevailer|WBRKaalia of the Vast|GWBGhave, Guru of Spores|UBRMarchesa, the Black Rose
Retired WDarien, King of Kjeldor|RJaya Ballard, Task Mage|RNorin the Wary|GBMomir Vig, Simic Visionary|WUBRGSliver Overlord
My son plays Wort and has complained lately that the deck seems to have been left behind as players in our group make ever more powerful decks. His major complaint is that goblin aggro, as good as it is, has a hard time taking down a table and Kiki-Jiki is usually exiled as soon as it hits the table or activates.
Lately, his only wins are coming off of Living Death and then only when other players don't have a mass sac outlet on board.
He really loves his goblins and is not interested in building another deck. Any suggestions for game-enders that don't include Kiki-Jiki?
I'd have to say a well-built goblin deck is fairly strong. I play against a very competitive meta (Uril, Mimeo, Nath/Mimeo/Ghaive) and I'm the #1 target. Perhaps you could ask your son to post his list so we could take a look-see. Ad Nauseam has generally been the MVP in this deck. With it, I either generate enough storm count for Empty the Warrens (save your Bushwhacker and Chieftain for this) or I combo out with Kiki-Jiki. I can on average draw up to 30 or so cards with Ad Nauseam. With Shared Animosity I've been able to run over the entire table in one monster turn after casting Ad Nauseam. At the minimum one player should die. Necropotence and Necrologia are slower but also very effective. Living Death is just a board wiper with some marginal benefits. I don't try to load my graveyard with creatures for abuse.
Current EDH Generals: WAvacyn, Angel of Hope|UAzami, Lady of Scrolls|B| Ob Nixilis, the Fallen|R Daretti, Scrap Savant|GEzuri, Renegade Leader|WUBrago, King Eternal|UBGrimgrin, Corpse-born|BR Wort, Boggart Auntie|RGUlasht, the Hate Seed|GW Captain Sisay|WBGhost Council of Orzhova|BGGlissa, the Traitor|GUExperiment Kraj|URMelek, Izzet Paragon RWJor Kadeen, the Prevailer|WBRKaalia of the Vast|GWBGhave, Guru of Spores|UBRMarchesa, the Black Rose
Retired WDarien, King of Kjeldor|RJaya Ballard, Task Mage|RNorin the Wary|GBMomir Vig, Simic Visionary|WUBRGSliver Overlord
I'd say your son's list looks very similar to my initial list. I had a lot of goblins and stuff that synergized with them. But no real direction to the deck and lots of stuff which could be cut. It was slow, and not very competitive until I cut all the high-cc cards and loaded up stuff which would support the idea of a single decisive turn. Goblins cannot be played slowly. Card for card we are inferior to Bant. Go for the big turn, focus on acceleration. Make sure you have enough tutors and draw.
Haven't taken this list out for a spin in months. I've severely neglected it. Development stopped around the time I started working on Azusa. Could probably add and replace lots of cards.
Brightstone Ritual is really good. The others are ok, nothing spectacular but they can fuel quick starts. Being able to hit a draw engine early is very important. If I were to revisit this list, increasing the amount of draw/tutors would be my top priority. Cutting some of the subpar combo pieces would be a good step forward.
So I finally upgraded this list, proxying Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, and Dark Confidant, and took it for a spin yesterday. Played Rith 1on1 while waiting for Zur to arrive. Zur took a long time to arrive. We played 3 games and my poor goblins were thrashed. Game 1 Jokulhaups turn 3-4. That effectively ended it after I'd overextended with no hand. Game 2 I got Krenko out early with friends but ate a turn 4 Cataclysm that neutered the gobbies. Game 3 was the closest. Another Jokulhaups turn 5-6 after I'd pounded Rith down to about 15. I drew into some lands and played a Frogtosser Banneret. He played Pattern of Rebirth on a little guy, regrew a Skullclamp, and put in Ulamog. Meanwhile I'd gotten him down to 5 between my critters and his City of Brass, Horizon Canopy, and Brushland. I'd played a Necro and was able to withstand 2 attacks from Ulamog without losing my board. So Rith was down to 5 he played a blocker putting himself down to 4. I've got 1 land, a 2/2, a 1/1 token, and Goblin Firestarter and Mogg Fanatic in hand. I need to draw a mountain or red mana source to win. No luck.
Goblins play like Azusa, but slower without the absurd ramp. The card quality is also vastly inferior so any kind of disruption is usually a nail in the coffin. I think if I were to add to this list I'd add mass LD on my terms + hand disruption
Played one game 1vs1 vs Thromok yesterday night. Overwhelmed him with combat damage. Then played three games vs Thromok and Prossh/Marath, winning 2 through Goblin Recruiter into Ringleader and friends into Kiki Jiki combo. Then played three more games vs Thromok, Gahiji, and Prossh/Marath winning one with turn 4 Ad Nauseam into lethal Empty the Warrens x 2 with Yawgmoth's Will, hasted, Shared Animosity in play making 40x 40+/2s. Second win was from Living Death into Kiki-Jiki combo. I had a decent start the third game but when my Ringleader fizzled turn 4 I didn't hit any draw or tutors and I was done. Tahiji finished off both Thromok and I around turn 8 and Prossh finished Tahiji off two turns later. We played one last game with everyone switching back to their main decks (I played my secondary/tertiary Rafiq) and Zur won turn 5 with Angel's Grace + Ad Nauseam into his Exsanguinate combo after drawing 20 cards with Zur into Necro turn 4. Now I remember why I had Path in
Hey, I have been following this thread for a while and I have noticed that you have changed your commander from Wort to Grenzo. I was just wondering how you feel about the two as a commander. Also wanted to ask you how good is waste not in your deck or is it more of just what your play group plays.
Now you have Grenzo as your commander, what are your thoughts on infinite mana (either Rings/Monolith or Animate Dead/WGD) to spam Grenzo's ability and load all of your goblins into play either at end of turn or for the hasty win?
Zimagic: You know I hadn't thought of that. It's worth a look. More than likely I'll be putting WGD in.
Aimellas93: Grenzo has more of an immediate game impact and can take over a game in a way Wort is unable to. I think Grenzo is a much stronger commander. My Zur friend has put together Nekusar and Wheel is played in my other friends' 2x Marath lists. Mimeo also runs Windfall. So discard and draw 7 is fairly popular in my meta.
Hey Swift. Last night I turned my mono R Purphoros into Grenzo, totally not a tuned list but still enough for some feedback.
Best play was putting Kozilek into the battlefield with Makeshift Mannequin when his "reshuffle" trigger on the stack. It was a very late add and I'm not sure I really want the reshuffle ability anyway so we'll see how that goes. I'd have happily used the Makeshift on an earlier whiff on Purphoros (he was 1 power bigger than my Grenzo when I flipped him.)
You really want either lots of mana, or use some of the with some of the red / artifact land doublers, or some sort of infinite combo (ok, it's cheezy but Goblins just don't stack up in multi-player unless you spam them onto the table) or Heartstone to reduce his ability to [1] to activate. I don't think he's going to be amazing otherwise.
After 2 games, he plays like a strange reverse goblin deck where you don't want draw 7's or Goblin Recruiter when Grenzo is in play but you do when he's not. I have to figure out the right mix there. I feel there'll be a completely different non-Goblin version focusing strictly on the combo.
Disciple of Griselbrand kept me in both games. First one I lost but about 4 turns (multi-player) later than I should have with any other sac outlet and he kept me alive and set up my game-winning turn in the second game.
As a weenie commander, I think he's pretty much perfect. Interesting building opportunities.
Zimagic: I think our primary focus should be on finding the quickest route towards our win conditions. That means enough draw/filter/tutor to get there. And I don't think I have enough currently. I'm somewhat skeptical Kozilek is a fit here. Grenzo/mannequin doesn't work with Kozilek, draw only triggers on cast, would probably play Ulamog over Kozilek. But if we have that much mana we should have won the game. Lifegain is helpful if things go badly but I'm not big on it.
(*) denotes foil version needed
1x Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
Land: 30
1x Badlands
1x Blood Crypt
1x Auntie's Hovel
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Marsh Flats
1x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn (*)
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
1x City of Brass
1x Sulfurous Springs
1x Command Tower
1x Mana Confluence
1x Graven Cairns
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Gemstone Caverns
6x Mountains
5x Swamps
1x Bojuka Bog
Mana: 11
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mox Diamond
1x Brightstone Ritual
1x Dark Ritual
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Surveyor's Scope
1x Treasonous Ogre
1x Faithless Looting
1x Skullclamp
1x Winds of Change
1x Scroll Rack
1x Dark Deal
1x Necropotence
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Goblin Ringleader (*)
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Necrologia
Tutors: 9
1x Gamble
1x Imperial Seal
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor (*)
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Goblin Recruiter
1x Doomsday
1x Goblin Matron (*)
1x Imperial Recruiter
Spot Removal: 5
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Stingscourger
1x Chaos Warp
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
Disruption: 3
1x Thoughtseize
1x Contamination
1x Stranglehold
Mass Removal: 2
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Living Death
Graveyard Recursion: 6
1x Animate Dead
1x Soldevi Digger
1x Reito Lantern
1x Necromancy
1x Recoup
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Breath of Fury
1x Lightning Crafter
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Zealous Conscripts
Aggression: 20
1x Goblin Arsonist
1x Goblin Bushwhacker
1x Goblin Chirugeon
1x Goblin Firestarter
1x Goblin Lackey
1x Mogg Fanatic
1x Frogtosser Banneret
1x Goblin Piledriver
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Warren Instigator
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin King
1x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Warchief (*)
1x Beetleback Chief
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Siege-Gang Commander
Deckstats: updated 4/10/16
Mana Curve: 2.38
Lands: 30
Creatures: 31
Artifacts: 12
Enchantments: 6
Instants: 6
Sorceries: 15
Gods: 1
Feel free to suggest improvements. The deck plays fairly fast. Zerg your enemies or combo out with
Kiki-Jiki + (Lightning Crafter and free Sac Outlet(Skirk Prospector or Goblin Sledder)
Goblin Recruiter into Goblin Ringleader + Warren Instigator/Skirk Prospector + Goblin Chieftain + Kiki Jiki + Lightning Crafter
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Removed Beseech the Queen
Removed Graveborn Muse
Removed Goblin Auntie
Removed Barter in Blood
Removed Phyrexian Altar
Removed Earwig Squad
Removed Goblin Shenanigans
Removed Mudbutton Torchrunner
Removed Siege Gang Commander
Removed Boggart Mob
Added Phyrexian Tower
Added Lotus Bloom
Added Dark Ritual
Added Firestorm
Added Mogg Raider
Added Culling the Weak
Added Gamble
Added Goblin Sledder
Added Chaos Warp
Added Mogg Fanatic
Added Thornbite Staff
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Removed 2xSwamp
Removed Mana Echoes
Removed Weirding Shaman
Added Arid Mesa
Added Bloodstained Mire
Added Marsh Flats
Added Wooded Foothills
Added Goblin Firestarter
Added Goblin Slinger
Forgot about the fetches!
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Added Savage Beating
Morph cost was too high, I think Savage Beating is more bang for the buck.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Removed Savage Beating
Removed Recoup
Removed Grave Pact
Removed Bojuka Bog
Added Seething Song
Added Empty the Warrens
Added Brightstone Ritual
Added Wayfarer's Bauble
Added Reliquary Tower
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
You are absolutely correct. The last game I played unfortunately I had a Mox Opal in my opening hand with only 1 other artifact. It was a dead card for the first 4 turns. Then it was slightly useful after Necrologia for 15 and Ad Naseum for another 12 or so next turn. I can pitch it to Kuldotha Rebirth and Welder it for something useful so it is not entirely a dead card if I can't hit metalcraft. But I do think I need to up the artifact count.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Lately, his only wins are coming off of Living Death and then only when other players don't have a mass sac outlet on board.
He really loves his goblins and is not interested in building another deck. Any suggestions for game-enders that don't include Kiki-Jiki?
W Avacyn, Angel of Hope|U Azami, Lady of Scrolls|B | Ob Nixilis, the Fallen|R Daretti, Scrap Savant|G Ezuri, Renegade Leader|WUBrago, King Eternal|UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born|BR Wort, Boggart Auntie|RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed|GW Captain Sisay|WB Ghost Council of Orzhova|BG Glissa, the Traitor|GU Experiment Kraj|UR Melek, Izzet Paragon
RW Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer|WBR Kaalia of the Vast|GWB Ghave, Guru of Spores|UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
Retired
WDarien, King of Kjeldor|R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage|R Norin the Wary|GB Momir Vig, Simic Visionary|WUBRG Sliver Overlord
I'd have to say a well-built goblin deck is fairly strong. I play against a very competitive meta (Uril, Mimeo, Nath/Mimeo/Ghaive) and I'm the #1 target. Perhaps you could ask your son to post his list so we could take a look-see. Ad Nauseam has generally been the MVP in this deck. With it, I either generate enough storm count for Empty the Warrens (save your Bushwhacker and Chieftain for this) or I combo out with Kiki-Jiki. I can on average draw up to 30 or so cards with Ad Nauseam. With Shared Animosity I've been able to run over the entire table in one monster turn after casting Ad Nauseam. At the minimum one player should die. Necropotence and Necrologia are slower but also very effective. Living Death is just a board wiper with some marginal benefits. I don't try to load my graveyard with creatures for abuse.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
1 Tainted Peak
15 Mountain
11 Swamp
1 Urborg
1 Hammerheim
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Auntie's Hovel
1 Badlands
1 Graven Cairns
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
Creatures:
1 Skirk Ridge Exhumer
1 Warren Instigator
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Voracious Dragon
1 Skirk Drill Sergeant
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Moggcatcher
1 Mad Auntie
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Goblin Sledder
1 Goblin Lookout
1 Sensation Gorger
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Anger
1 Boggart Harbinger
1 Goblin King
1 Boggart Mob
1 Cabal Slaver
1 Caterwauling Boggart
1 Earwig Squad
1 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Frenzied Goblin
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin General
1 Knucklebone Witch
1 Goblin Lackey
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Recruiter
1 Goblin Ringleader
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Wizard
1 Goblin Assassin
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mana Echoes
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Buried Alive
1 Profane Command
1 Footbottom Feast
1 Boggart Shenanigans
1 Brightstone Ritual
1 Dralnu's Crusade
1 Fodder Launch
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Goblin Warrens
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Grave Pact
1 Stranglehold
Artifacts:
1 Door of Destinies
1 Skullclamp
1 AEther Vial
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Temple Bell
1 Basilisk Collar
W Avacyn, Angel of Hope|U Azami, Lady of Scrolls|B | Ob Nixilis, the Fallen|R Daretti, Scrap Savant|G Ezuri, Renegade Leader|WUBrago, King Eternal|UB Grimgrin, Corpse-born|BR Wort, Boggart Auntie|RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed|GW Captain Sisay|WB Ghost Council of Orzhova|BG Glissa, the Traitor|GU Experiment Kraj|UR Melek, Izzet Paragon
RW Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer|WBR Kaalia of the Vast|GWB Ghave, Guru of Spores|UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose
Retired
WDarien, King of Kjeldor|R Jaya Ballard, Task Mage|R Norin the Wary|GB Momir Vig, Simic Visionary|WUBRG Sliver Overlord
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Also, is playing all those sub-par goblins just for Thornbite Staff really necessary? I can understand Mogg Fanatic, but cards like Goblin Fireslinger?
Haven't taken this list out for a spin in months. I've severely neglected it. Development stopped around the time I started working on Azusa. Could probably add and replace lots of cards.
Brightstone Ritual is really good. The others are ok, nothing spectacular but they can fuel quick starts. Being able to hit a draw engine early is very important. If I were to revisit this list, increasing the amount of draw/tutors would be my top priority. Cutting some of the subpar combo pieces would be a good step forward.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Goblins play like Azusa, but slower without the absurd ramp. The card quality is also vastly inferior so any kind of disruption is usually a nail in the coffin. I think if I were to add to this list I'd add mass LD on my terms + hand disruption
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
Aimellas93: Grenzo has more of an immediate game impact and can take over a game in a way Wort is unable to. I think Grenzo is a much stronger commander. My Zur friend has put together Nekusar and Wheel is played in my other friends' 2x Marath lists. Mimeo also runs Windfall. So discard and draw 7 is fairly popular in my meta.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
Best play was putting Kozilek into the battlefield with Makeshift Mannequin when his "reshuffle" trigger on the stack. It was a very late add and I'm not sure I really want the reshuffle ability anyway so we'll see how that goes. I'd have happily used the Makeshift on an earlier whiff on Purphoros (he was 1 power bigger than my Grenzo when I flipped him.)
You really want either lots of mana, or use some of the with some of the red / artifact land doublers, or some sort of infinite combo (ok, it's cheezy but Goblins just don't stack up in multi-player unless you spam them onto the table) or Heartstone to reduce his ability to [1] to activate. I don't think he's going to be amazing otherwise.
After 2 games, he plays like a strange reverse goblin deck where you don't want draw 7's or Goblin Recruiter when Grenzo is in play but you do when he's not. I have to figure out the right mix there. I feel there'll be a completely different non-Goblin version focusing strictly on the combo.
Disciple of Griselbrand kept me in both games. First one I lost but about 4 turns (multi-player) later than I should have with any other sac outlet and he kept me alive and set up my game-winning turn in the second game.
As a weenie commander, I think he's pretty much perfect. Interesting building opportunities.
Commander BLOG: The Crazy 99
Gonti ; Sissay
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsZimagic: I think our primary focus should be on finding the quickest route towards our win conditions. That means enough draw/filter/tutor to get there. And I don't think I have enough currently. I'm somewhat skeptical Kozilek is a fit here. Grenzo/mannequin doesn't work with Kozilek, draw only triggers on cast, would probably play Ulamog over Kozilek. But if we have that much mana we should have won the game. Lifegain is helpful if things go badly but I'm not big on it.
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL