MTG Salvation

Not sure why I started this deck, but I decided to go with an EDH deck, made for under $50. Any suggestions to the deck is much appreciated. Basic concept, Conspire, and overrunning with token creatures.

DECK:

Revision 1

Revision 2:

Two things I would suggest right away:
1. Put your list in DECK tags, like so:



Several benefits of this: your list is more organized, it's easier to read, and it provides useful hyperlinks to pictures of the cards you are playing with.

2. Pick one commander and stick with it. Your decisions on what spells to play will be infinitely easier if you have one and ONLY one commander to build around. It's hard enough to cut your list down to size with one commander, but two is flat-out impossible.

Once you get both of those things done, I can offer you some more help.

Ok, I edited the formating for you.

OK, let's start with the lands:
- In general, you want to keep your basic land count pretty high. You are a two color deck, your main color is green, and your general is hybrid, so even if you are color-screwed (which is very unlikely), you can still cast Wort. You'll notice that you will be digging up basics quite a lot (I average about 10-20 per game), so running out is not a good thing.
- Cut the cycling lands. You are on a budget that prevents you from playing either Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam, so you don't really have a viable way to retrieve these lands. Replace them with some more basics.
- Cut Zoetic Cavern and Ghost Quarter. Red and green are the best LD colors in the game, so the latter is easily replaced, and the former is just...not good. Add two more basics for these.
- Cut Gruul Signet and Sapseep Forest. You'll probably use all of your mana on your turn, so leaving two lands open for 1 measly life is probably not worth it. Signets are only good in colors that don't have land-ramping, so green Signets are almost never worth it. Two more basics here.

Next, the creatures:
- It seems that you've decided on Wort, so the word "trample" on a creature is no longer enough to make the cut. You want to maximize Wort's value, so you need to value instants/sorceries over permanents. Most of the time it's the other way around, but in this narrow case, Creeping Mold is at least as good as, if not better than, Acidic Slime.
- Desert Twister is definitely better than Indrik Stomphowler.
- Farseek and Nature's Lore should replace Krosan Tusker and Drumhunter.
- Spearbreaker Behemoth can also get cut, since you aren't focusing on bigger guys.
- Caustic Wasps was never very good in the first place, but in this deck, it can be replaced by Krosan Grip or Beast Within or any number of non-permanent removal.
- Tornado Elemental should probably be something like Windstorm
- Arashi, Steel Hellkite, and all of the "Trampling fatties" section need to get cut as well.
- Your token-makers are pretty solid. One rule of thumb I would suggest is this: if you have to untap with it, don't count on it. For example, it is nearly impossible for someone in my group to get a Mycoloth with counters on it to survive to their next upkeep. It's a nice theory on paper, but in reality it usually doesn't get there.
- Similarly, if you have to make it through a combat phase, it probably isn't worth the wait either (unless you have a lot of haste). For example, Living Hive probably won't get to attack anything unless you run a lot of haste-makers, which you don't. Neither will Spawnwrithe or Nacatl War-Pride.
- Symbiotic Beast is kinda cute, but for two more mana, you get three more tokens with Symbiotic Wurm.

Next, the non-creature permanents:
- As mentioned before, you no longer need to worry about trample, so Gruul War Plow isn't worth it.
- Lurking Predators has less value because of all the non-permanents you need to play with Wort.

Finally, the conspire-ables:
- Beacon of Creation could be good or bad, depending on how many Forests you run.
- Genesis Wave is the same as Lurking Predators: your odds of hitting a permanent are not good.
- Beacon of Destruction will never be good in this format. You wouldn't play Lightning Bolt, would you?
- Inferno is OK, Blasphemous Act and Chain Reaction are better.
- Firespout also sucks in this format. It can't be conspired because you don't pay any mana for the copy.
- Recollect is a fine card, but Regrowth and Make a Wish also deserve a place on the list.

So, that's a lot of things to cut. In their place, try to find a lot more instants and sorceries that can be conspired by Wort. For example, Gelatinous Genesis is dirt cheap and one of my game-winners. Just last week, I conspired it and made 10 5/5s, then won on my next turn. Another great card is Harmonize...four mana for six cards is very good.

Hope that helps you out!

Quote from shmnion

I would add some spot removal...Reverberate for those times you want [to copy/conspire a spell 4 times]...
Green has a bunch of card draw some of it pretty budget friendly. ie, Collective Unconscious

Agreed, added Red Sun Zenith removed Beacon of Destruction OCPunisher also gave better insight to removing Beacon of Destruction. Also added Collective Unconscious (awesome card)

Quote from OCPunisher

OK, let's start with the lands:

Followed most of your suggestions here...but couldn't cut Gruul Signet, it's just to nice.

Quote from OCPunisher

Next, the creatures:

Liked alot of your suggestions, i'll have to reprice to see how Beast Within impacts the overall price.Also wasn't able to cut Indrik Stomphowler, Krosan Tusker or Tornado Elemental

Quote from OCPunisher

Next, the non-creature permanents:

Hmmm, a one in three chance with Lurking Predators still seems worth it. And since I'm purging my deck of most lands, and can put the revealed card on the bottom...chances are good I'll get a creature every turn.

Quote from OCPunisher

Finally, the conspire-ables:

Agree with most of the ideas on these cards, see my edited version of the deck.

Quote from bluefacebeast

Hmmm, a one in three chance with Lurking Predators still seems worth it. And since I'm purging my deck of most lands, and can put the revealed card on the bottom...chances are good I'll get a creature every turn.

Advice from someone who uses Lurking Predators a lot: DON'T. A one in three chance means you're getting an average of one creature every three turns, and it seems like you're not going to run that many big creatures, so the chances of it being a very useful one are even slimmer. Plus, everyone is going to see your draws, which is really bad.
Overall, I'd only add Lurking Predators in a deck with at least 45% creatures.

Quote from bluefacebeast

Followed most of your suggestions here...but couldn't cut Gruul Signet, it's just to nice.

Mana fixing aside, with the signet you're paying 2 for 1 extra mana per turn. Why don't you just put something like Rampant Growth in its place? It's the same mana accel, but it's much less vulnerable to removal and you can conspire it with Wort (not the best spell to copy, but having this option wouldn't hurt, would it?

Good Morning

When putting together my Wort Deck, I've found the following to be quite helpful:

First, I recommend tossing in some more LD.
Reap and Sow
Frenzied Tilling
Plow Under
Aftershock

Second, add more token producers that can be conspired.
Bestial Menace
Grizzly Fate
Gelatinous Genesis

You have a good number of fatties. Perhaps consider Warstorm Surge and/or Stalking Vengeance to really make use of those creatures.


Hope this helps.

I'm going to have to take another look at Symbiotic Wurm in my list. After winning a game solely on the back of Gelatinous Genesis, I'm also going to have to take another look at Beastial Menace and Grizzly Fate.

There are still a lot of fatties in this list that don't really mesh well with Wort. I'd think about cutting some more of them in favor of a few more conspire-ables. For example, Steel Hellkite doesn't even help you conspire. Panglacial Wurm? If you want to make bigguns and trample over people, you probably want to play Stonebrow or someone else.

Reverberate is good, but Reiterate and Wild Ricochet are much, much better. People will think twice about casting Time Stretch if you hold up Wild Ricochet mana (especially if you conspire it).

Hmm, I think I saw someone suggesting a Plow Under. I totally second that, if you can fit it into your budget.
Saproling Symbiosis would also be a really good spell to conspire. You'd quadruplicate your tokens for 4 mana.

Quote from Solemn Simulator

Hmm, I think I saw someone suggesting a Plow Under. I totally second that, if you can fit it into your budget.
Saproling Symbiosis would also be a really good spell to conspire. You'd quadruplicate your tokens for 4 mana.

Plow Under is kind of a polarizing card...people either really love it or really hate it. I'm among those who don't like it because it prevents people from playing the game. If this was a 1v1 deck, I'd be all for it, but in a group setting, stalling people out and making them sit there while you have all the fun seems like a dick move. It's a lot like most of the other LD spells that red/green has...it depends on whether or not you are a fan of those effects. If you are, then it's a great card to run.

Saproling Symbiosis seems like a great card to run...IF and only IF you actually have tokens on the table when it resolves. That can be a big IF in the wrong meta. Depending on how much instant-speed removal you regularly play against, it could be either a huge win or a huge loss.

Quote from Solemn Simulator

Advice from someone who uses Lurking Predators a lot: DON'T. A one in three chance means you're getting an average of one creature every three turns, and it seems like you're not going to run that many big creatures, so the chances of it being a very useful one are even slimmer. Plus, everyone is going to see your draws, which is really bad.
Overall, I'd only add Lurking Predators in a deck with at least 45% creatures.

It's still the closest thing in the deck that is 1.) budget friendly, and 2.) card filtration. I typically play 3 - 4 man EDH games. On average my opponents play 1-2 spells (each), so with 3-8 spells played I have at least one creature coming into play for free. And with Cream of the Cropit can aid in me filtering the deck.

Quote from GFireflyE

First, I recommend tossing in some more LD.

I'm trying to shy away from land destruction, mainly because it's a stall tactic, I don't want the games to last over an hour. I do however like several of these suggestion, and have updated the deck list (see below for a summary).

• Reap and Sow
  
• Frenzied Tilling
  
• Gelatinous Genesis
  

Vragg,

Most of those cards are already in the deck, and a 'Destroy Target Artifact and Land' would require each card-type to present or it'd fizzle, if it's an 'or' its a better spell to conspire.

Quote from OCPunisher

There are still a lot of fatties in this list that don't really mesh well with Wort. I'd think about cutting some more of them in favor of a few more conspire-ables. For example, Steel Hellkite doesn't even help you conspire. Panglacial Wurm? If you want to make bigguns and trample over people, you probably want to play Stonebrow or someone else.

Reverberate is good, but Reiterate and Wild Ricochet are much, much better. People will think twice about casting Time Stretch if you hold up Wild Ricochet mana (especially if you conspire it).

I'm going go have to agree on Wild Richochet, Reiterate is iffy. I agree the fatties are still in the deck, but some cards (even if conspireable) can't match up with Akroma, Angel of Fury and her ability to win games.

Quote from OCPunisher

Saproling Symbiosis seems like a great card to run...Depending on how much instant-speed removal you regularly play against, it could be either a huge win or a huge loss.

Well I'm still attempting to keep the entire deck under $50, so adding a $3 card means I have to re-balance the deck. So it'd have to be a VERY strong card if it's over a buck in value.


And oh yeah...you won the Gruul Signet argument, but barely.

here's the new additions:

• Reap and Sow
  
• Frenzied Tilling
  
• Gelatinous Genesis
  
• Fresh Meat
  
• Wild Richochet
  

I removed:

• Krokan Tusker
  
• Gruul Signet
  
• Steel Hellkite
  
• Predatory Advantage
  
• Spawnwrithe
  

Heat Shimmer is an amazing conspire target. You'll probably find good targets from among your opponents creatures, but even if not you can use it on a siege gang or other token producing creature you own.

Oh wow. Great idea.

Removed Garruk's Horde for Heat Shimmer

Quote from slumgum

Heat Shimmer is an amazing conspire target. You'll probably find good targets from among your opponents creatures, but even if not you can use it on a siege gang or other token producing creature you own.

Can't believe I missed this one. Very nice catch! I'll be adding it to my list as well.

It also looks like Lurking Predators isn't going to make the cut, because of it's difficulty in locating one online. It's a $1.00 card, but causes the deck price to jump nearly $12.00 to find a proper vendor out of TCGPlayer.

So I'm looking for another good filtering card, or two. Suggestions? (Keep in mind budget friendly, I'm roughly at $44.00 with the current deck)