Uh, just noticed the lastest spoiler from Fate Reforged. Arcbond seems crazy enough! But it might be too situational. I also think Outpost Siege might be worth looking into... Thoughts?
Yes, Arcbond is nuts and I am super excited for it. It will probably be the cheapest Inferno option, even if it takes another burn spell to make it go off.
Siege is probably good, but I just don't know how to evaluate it here. I'm not playing Act On Impulse either. Maybe I should be?
I'm not playing Act On Impulse either. Maybe I should be?
Blech, I don't think the card is any good.
I think its a decent card. Pseudo-draw 3 but IMO it's a pretty big downfall that it exiles.
Maybe my hesitancy comes from the fact that the order in which this deck casts spells actually matters, and some cards never want to be cast at all. I am usually bottlenecked on mana, not cards... I would rather it be another Goblin Lore.
Regarding Greater Gargadon, I know his purpose is not immediately obvious but he is a good role player here. First, he is one of the few pre-Squee plays we have. Second, he is a good way to get Squee in the GY so you can start generating CA. Third, he is one of the best Jokulhaups deterrents ever. And finally, he is a mana-efficient game-ending threat that serves swift elephant justice in the final turns of the game. The deck usually "goes off" on turn 8, 9, or 10, and Gargadon is probably a big factor in that.
Seems legit. I run 9 instant/sorcery with CMC 4 or higher, which should deal with most creatures. 7 mana might be a lot, but it's not that hard generation that kind of mana with all the doublers and recursion would be much welcomed...
Edit: not seeing anything else for Squee in this set. What about you?
While it may be more limited then Past in Flames and Recoup, I definitely thinks this needs to be tested.
Edit: reading is tech. Not flashback, but pseudo draw... hmm, not so thrilled on second thought.
I am excited for Commune with Lava. This card is legit, straight up.
Well, we sort of got some flashback. Volcanic Vision
Seems legit. I run 9 instant/sorcery with CMC 4 or higher, which should deal with most creatures. 7 mana might be a lot, but it's not that hard generation that kind of mana with all the doublers and recursion would be much welcomed...
Edit: not seeing anything else for Squee in this set. What about you?
I like Volcanic Vision, but man it sure is expensive. It might be worth it, though. What do you suggest we cut?
On another note, as red gets more and more playable card advantage, I am wondering if it is making Squee and the Phoenix strategy less and less relevant. I keep imagining what this deck would be like if we bent the rules a little and had the flip card Tok-Tok, Volcano Born (Akki Lavarunner) as our general. I love Squee to death (literally), but has his time come? What do you think?
Also, I got to participate in some pretty crazy games last week. One of them involved three mono-red decks. Another one involved me winning during another guy's end step after the blue player tapped out to stop him from winning with a Comet Storm. He resolved a late-game Scrap Mastery with 2 cards left in his library, which brought all of my Gauntlet effects into play and gave me enough mana to Valakut + Inferno to activate Quest for Pure Flame, then follow up with my own lethal Comet Storm. Sweet!
EDIT: I updated the OP with my current list. Here are the changes:
In general, I lowered the curve, made room for more instant-speed shenanigans, and increased support for Recoup/Past in Flames. I also broke my "no mana rock" rule and added Sol Ring and the Medallion because they are just too powerful and synergistic to ignore. I am probably going to miss Colossus, but wow, is Arcbond one volatile piece of work. You can absolutely kill yourself and everybody else if you aren't careful.
EDIT2: I changed the thread title to something more amusing and appropriate.
EDIT3: This is turning into something of a deck overhaul. I want to try out a few additional changes:
Trading Post has been okay, but it has failed in its main purpose (the lifegain slot). Glacial Chasm on the other hand should effectively gain a lot of life by helping me dodge my own Infernos on a crucial turn. On a similar note, I am cutting Molten Disaster (admittedly one of my favorites) in favor of Acidic Soil to see how it goes. And finally, I am squeezing Terrain Generator into the manabase to help me take advantage of all of these wheels and card draw!
I like Volcanic Vision, but man it sure is expensive. It might be worth it, though. What do you suggest we cut?
I think I will have to test this card. The 7 seven mana and sorcery speed though, makes me think it's pretty weak. I think a sweeper might be something to cut for this, since it's build into the card.
On another note, as red gets more and more playable card advantage, I am wondering if it is making Squee and the Phoenix strategy less and less relevant. I keep imagining what this deck would be like if we bent the rules a little and had the flip card Tok-Tok, Volcano Born (Akki Lavarunner) as our general. I love Squee to death (literally), but has his time come? What do you think?
Hard question! I think I'll keep Squee, for severel reasons. He flies under the radar. No one fears him. If someone attacks me or straigt out kill my Squee, I can just play him again and again, until they don't even bother. Spotremoval and counters moves elsewhere. I still think the card advantage Squee provide makes him worth it. Once he's in the graveyard, he easily turns into another card. And he also carries warhammer and batterskull like a boss (ofc there are better options, but Squee can just sit on the board without anyone to even look a him).
Looks like you been made some big changes to the deck. Seems exciting. Havn't had a chance to try out Arcbond, but cool that it's been working som crazy madness for you. How about Impact Resonance? To me it just seems like another sweeper that requires some other damage-dealer, which doesn't even hit players.
I'd be unhappy to cut my Trading Post, but i also do play more artifacts then you and have been living the dream with it and Spine of Ish Sah. Have been playing with Terrain Generator for a while now and it's really good.
Looking forward to hear how Acidic Soil will work for you. I tend to be one of the players the most lands on the board, besides green players.
I like Volcanic Vision, but man it sure is expensive. It might be worth it, though. What do you suggest we cut?
I think I will have to test this card. The 7 seven mana and sorcery speed though, makes me think it's pretty weak. I think a sweeper might be something to cut for this, since it's build into the card.
On another note, as red gets more and more playable card advantage, I am wondering if it is making Squee and the Phoenix strategy less and less relevant. I keep imagining what this deck would be like if we bent the rules a little and had the flip card Tok-Tok, Volcano Born (Akki Lavarunner) as our general. I love Squee to death (literally), but has his time come? What do you think?
Hard question! I think I'll keep Squee, for severel reasons. He flies under the radar. No one fears him. If someone attacks me or straigt out kill my Squee, I can just play him again and again, until they don't even bother. Spotremoval and counters moves elsewhere. I still think the card advantage Squee provide makes him worth it. Once he's in the graveyard, he easily turns into another card. And he also carries warhammer and batterskull like a boss (ofc there are better options, but Squee can just sit on the board without anyone to even look a him).
Looks like you been made some big changes to the deck. Seems exciting. Havn't had a chance to try out Arcbond, but cool that it's been working som crazy madness for you. How about Impact Resonance? To me it just seems like another sweeper that requires some other damage-dealer, which doesn't even hit players.
I'd be unhappy to cut my Trading Post, but i also do play more artifacts then you and have been living the dream with it and Spine of Ish Sah. Have been playing with Terrain Generator for a while now and it's really good.
Looking forward to hear how Acidic Soil will work for you. I tend to be one of the players the most lands on the board, besides green players.
Will post my decklist, when i get the chance.
I see Commune With Lava being sort of a red Opportunity. If you cast it for 4RR on your turn, you typically get to play an exiled land before passing the turn, then next turn you can untap, play another exiled land, and go from there. Plus, it digs deep. The closer I am to casting Mana Geyser, the closer I am to winning.
Volcanic Vision isn't anything spectacular, but I want to try it out. If it brings back Wheel of Fortune or the aforementioned Mana Geyser, I'll be riding high.
After thinking about it some more and playing a few games, I am going to keep Squee. He is a good fit for all the reasons you said (well, except he almost never attacks in my version). There were just a few games in a row where I didn't even cast him because wasn't going to accomplish much of anything, but maybe a better way of looking at it was that I didn't need to cast him, since I had plenty else to do already.
Arcbond I would recommend. Impact Resonance is just okay, though. I hate that it won't damage players, but then neither does Chain Reaction, and Chain Reaction usually does good work for me. It might be a little too reactionary and situational, I think. Still, Impact Resonance can have a huge damage output for a very minimal investment.
Acidic Soil will probably hit me harder than most. It still might be good enough (even without Glacial Chasm) as another mana-efficient way to bring everyone down into burn range for the kill. I am imagining a turn beginning with Acidic Soil, Recoup, Acidic Soil. I will let you know how it turns out.
Okay, so here's my list. It's put together from what I have and isn't what I ideally want it to be. So please keep that in mind.
Just for reference: When I first started to play magic, I always played blue. Now that I only play EDH, I almost don't play blue anymore, but as one of my friends put it: I try to make every deck feel like a blue one.
On-radar-cards: Arcbond: I hear it's nuts Volcanic Vision: don't really know about this one, but could pull of some crazy plays. Commune with Lava: Think you're right about this one. Card advantage is never bad, but lets see how it plays. Final Fortune: In almost every game, I have this little voice telling me: "if only we had an extra turn!". This gives us one and if everything goes as planned, we shouldn't be needing any more. It's a bit of a gamble, but isn't that whats Squee is all about?
Hey, that's a sweet-looking decklist! I am interested to hear how some of the cards have been for you, namely Koth of the Hammer and Smoke.
I don't think Flamekin Village or Shivan Gorge are worthwhile here. Only 3 or 4 cards in your deck are any good with Village, and the amount of damage that Gorge deals is probably too far offset by the mana you lose on Caged Sun effects. Mouth of Ronom has been kind of meh for me, so you might try replacing it with Gorge and seeing how it turns out?
I finally got to cast Commune With Lava. It was pretty good, albeit slow. I would have a bunch of mana left over with no immediate path to victory and no immediate threat to deal with, so I would just tap out for a big Commune in the hopes of going off next turn. I flashed it back later and ended up digging about 20 cards deep over the course of the game. I still lost, but that's because I made a laughable number of misplays and deserved to lose.
Glacial Chasm is better than I thought it would be. It is a fragile thing to hide behind, but game after game I find myself wishing Chasm was in my hand so I can avoid dying (or killing myself).
Will talk more later... I am intrigued by Final Fortune but I have to go to work!
----- EDIT -----
Yes, I definitely want to try Final Fortune here. It might be sort of like another ritual spell... many times I find that I have victory in hand, but not enough mana to get there without passing the turn. I'm going to temporarily cut Ignite Memories (another dead-until-ready-to-win card, and one that is less than synergistic with Final Fortune) to give it a shot.
I wouldn't consider this thread dead. Theres just far between the responses:) And actually, I've been wanting to give my thoughts on some of the new spoilers.
Magmatic Insight - Wild Guess #3. Don't know if I want that many, but usually I do want to discard a land, so it might be better (but only if you got a land... I'm on a fence about it).
Pyromancer's Goggles - Expensive manarock, but the effect is cool and something I'll be looking forward to doing stupid things with!
Alhammarret's Archive - It looks cool, for sure, but I don't know if it will preform as good as I hope. Makes looting insane though! Lately, I have also tried out Prophetic Flamespeaker, who gets insane with some of the lifelink-equipments, and I've been thinking about adding Basilisk Collar to the gang and with 3 lifelinkers, I might get some use out of the Archives second ability.
Any thoughts? Or did you spot some other cards, that looks good?
Would be cool to see your decklist, Sengir!
To comment on your suggestions, Hostillity sure looks fun and crazy, but I don't think I would run it since creatures can be answered alot easilier then a spell (which even sometimes will be uncounterable). Journeyer's Kite can give alot of value over time, but I like to have "put into the battlefield" effects, because I will always try to get my Valakut out asap. Getting two triggers can be really mean! I'm testing Volcanic Vision and so far I like it, even though it's expensive.
EDIT:
d0su, looking forward to hear how Final Fortune will work for you. I havn't got one atm, but will try to get one soon. Koth of the Hammer have been amazing for me. If he sticks 3 turns, it's usually game over. I like all his effects, his -2 can generate massive mana late game. I've cutted Smoke since creatures doesn't really matters with all the wipers. And with Smoke, people still got to untap the meanest creatures.
About Flamekin Village, what I like about it is this deck, is exactly because there isn't that many creatures. Getting to swing with a hasted Akorma, Angel of Fury out of nowhere, can end games.
I really like the idea of the deck. Can imagine that it can do all sorts of janky stuff
I guess d0su and I make use of damage doublers instead of conspire, but we also want to burn everything with as much damage as possible. I wouldn't want tokens in my deck, as they would just blow up:) Do you sometimes win by a tokenswarm?
My deck generate massive value by looting like crazy, putting spells to the grave which can be reused by Recoup, which you have, but especially by Past in Flames. I think you would love it in your deck too. And maybe you can get d0su to talk about how great a card Goblin Lore is. He loves that card, right?
Thought about replacing Pilgrim's Eye with Solemn Silumacrum?
Sorry for the late answer - but like I said before, there's usually far between them
About Goblin Lore, sure it looks awfull and people will look wierd at you for playing it, but it works for me, and especially in this deck. It might not net any card advantage, but it do filters and digs for key-cards. If you got a hand full of nothing, play Goblin Lore to upgrade your hand. What ends in your graveyard, can be used with Recoup or Past in Flames later. Give it a try and see how it works for you. Sometimes it's a hit and miss, but usually im never sad to play it.
Roger is right. I am not going to say that Goblin Lore is amazing and every deck should play it, but in this deck it really does some work. It's job is to 1) normalize our land:nonland ratio to make sure we aren't screwed or flooded, 2) generate virtual or real card advantage with Squee and other graveyard-centric cards, 3) dig toward our wincon (Past in Flames) to make sure we see it game after game. To that end it is overall effective.
One way to look at this is, if Divination were red instead of blue, would we play it? I think the answer is a solid yes. Goblin Lore is like a Divination with a higher variance -- sometimes it is worse, other times it is a lot better, but you can rig the odds in your favor if you know how it works. The key is to engineer your hand to maximize the chance you discard useless or graveyard-centric cards, and to not get fooled into thinking you have to cast it if your hand is already good enough.
In my deck, I play 42 mana-producing lands (counting Sol Ring). I remember a game where I had a 3-Mountain opener with Goblin Lore. Turn 4 rolls around, and I still have not drawn another land. My hand is Squee, Hammer of Bogardan, Goblin Lore, and 5 other cards. I cast the 'Lore.
With 39 lands left in my 88 card deck, Lore would on average get me a hand of about 1.3 lands after all is said and done. Also, I have about a 49% chance of generating real card advantage by discarding Squee or Hammer of Bogardan, netting an average of an extra 0.55 cards, and that's not counting the fact I may draw another graveyard-centric card. Let's compare its performance to Divination and Concentrate:
I hope the table displays okay. You can see that Goblin Lore's ability to dig for mana in this scenario is not only greater than that of Divination, it is actually very close to that of a 4-mana draw-3. It will net fewer cards on average than Divination (though in this case I did in fact net 2 lands and a full card by discarding Hammer), but it also costs less mana to cast. The bonus is that if you have already found Past in Flames, then Goblin Lore's value goes up even further because you can treat any instant or sorcery as a GY-centric card.
Considering that Goblin Lore has such a low CMC and that mono-red doesn't exactly have a lot of other cards it could play in this slot, I'd say it makes the cut until they print something better -- and I am sure they will print something better, eventually.
I understand. Let me know when you make another thread so I can follow it!
So Final Fortune was not really working out for me. I wanted it to be good but so far I just discard it to looting/wheel effects. If we want this effect I honestly think this is one case where Last Chance is better, since we can get it back with Recoup.
I cut it entirely, though, and slotted in the shiny new Pyromancer's Goggles in its place. Seems natural!
If it redirected/replicated all damage done, I might try to make it work. However, I know Fire Servant isn't good enough because so much of our damage ends up coming from non-spell sources. This card suffers the same problem, unfortunately.
Pyromancer's Goggles have actually overperformed for me. Every time I double a spell with them, I usually win the game that turn. Molten Disaster has also made its way back in, and the split second has proven crucial to ending games in the face of disrutpion. Split second, indeed! To make room, Quest for Pure Flame and Ignite Memories have taken a seat on the bench.
EDIT:
Today I did the unthinkable. I tried out the deck with the commander as Wort, the Raidmother instead of Squee (props to SengirVampire for the idea). Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Pyromancer's Goggles have actually overperformed for me. Every time I double a spell with them, I usually win the game that turn. Molten Disaster has also made its way back in, and the split second has proven crucial to ending games in the face of disrutpion. Split second, indeed! To make room, Quest for Pure Flame and Ignite Memories have taken a seat on the bench.
EDIT:
Today I did the unthinkable. I tried out the deck with the commander as Wort, the Raidmother instead of Squee (props to SengirVampire for the idea). Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Glad to hear about Goggles. I havn't got them yet, but they been on my wishlist since it was spoiled.
I'm not sure about Mizzix's Mastery since I rarely think I would overload it. But well, it might just be worth it as a single-use.
Havn't played with Chandra myself, I can't help you with that, but saw Weebo's response on the Jaya-thread, and I do think he has a point on the disrupting part. It made me want to play her...
Since my last post, I've turned the deck a bit more to the artifact side, and acutally added Salvaging Station since I now have a decent amount of targets for it. But sadly, I havn't played that much lately, so no experience with it yet
Glad to hear about Goggles. I havn't got them yet, but they been on my wishlist since it was spoiled.
I'm not sure about Mizzix's Mastery since I rarely think I would overload it. But well, it might just be worth it as a single-use.
Havn't played with Chandra myself, I can't help you with that, but saw Weebo's response on the Jaya-thread, and I do think he has a point on the disrupting part. It made me want to play her...
Since my last post, I've turned the deck a bit more to the artifact side, and acutally added Salvaging Station since I now have a decent amount of targets for it. But sadly, I havn't played that much lately, so no experience with it yet
I'd like to see the Salvaging Station package in action! So I imagine Daretti is also probably not far behind?
Overloading Mizzix's Mastery has not been as great as Past in Flames, but it makes a decent Plan B. The single-use case is useful as another draw-seven and has convinced me to keep Wheel of Fate in the deck, which is generally the least reliable of the big draw spells.
I cut Chandra Ablaze for a little while, and so far I have not missed it. I think my build is a little more explosive than the Jaya build, and six mana for a modal Fireblast/draw-3 is not as appealing as it once was. I think I'd rather win faster than slow my opponents down.
I also cut Shattered Perception in favor of Molten Psyche. I rarely find myself flashing back the Perception, and now that the tuck rule has changed, Molten Psyche deserves another look. On the plus side, Psyche can also mess with my opponents like Chandra's -2!
Acidic Soil has also been sort of mediocre -- I'm on the lookout for a more flexible, cheap direct damage spell.
Here's my updated list. Still havn't played with it lately, but acquire some new toys for it (Gauntlet of Might!!!!!!!), so hope it's going to happen soon!
Really looking forward to see how the deck is going to preform. Games in my playgroup tend to be pretty grindy, with lots of wipes, so wanted to add some artifact recursion, why i got Salvaging Station and Scrap Mastery. I got 7 targets with the station, which my be a bit low, but 3 of them will go in the yard by them selves. Alhammarret's Archive looks good with all the looting, and i do have some lifegain on my equipments which Godo can fetch, so i'm fairly sure, that it will do its job. And then i'm just really excited to play with the forth and truest mana doubler, Gauntlet of Might, thanks to pucatrade
What do you think about the new Chandra, Flamecaller? They were pretty excited on the Jaya-thread, but i only think i would use her 0-ability.
But i do think that i'm going to add Mirrorpool, since i also run Crucible of Worlds, though i'm not that fond of lowering my snow-covereds. But i can think of all sorts of funny things that land could be used for, so at least i'm going to try it out.
Here's my updated list. Still havn't played with it lately, but acquire some new toys for it (Gauntlet of Might!!!!!!!), so hope it's going to happen soon!
Really looking forward to see how the deck is going to preform. Games in my playgroup tend to be pretty grindy, with lots of wipes, so wanted to add some artifact recursion, why i got Salvaging Station and Scrap Mastery. I got 7 targets with the station, which my be a bit low, but 3 of them will go in the yard by them selves. Alhammarret's Archive looks good with all the looting, and i do have some lifegain on my equipments which Godo can fetch, so i'm fairly sure, that it will do its job. And then i'm just really excited to play with the forth and truest mana doubler, Gauntlet of Might, thanks to pucatrade
What do you think about the new Chandra, Flamecaller? They were pretty excited on the Jaya-thread, but i only think i would use her 0-ability.
But i do think that i'm going to add Mirrorpool, since i also run Crucible of Worlds, though i'm not that fond of lowering my snow-covereds. But i can think of all sorts of funny things that land could be used for, so at least i'm going to try it out.
Looks pretty sweet! Scrap Mastery and Goblin Welder seem like pretty good payoffs for going the artifact route. And I'm happy to hear you finally got a Gauntlet! Merry Christmas to you indeed! I'm surprised to see Daretti, Scrap Savant omitted from your list. Do you ever find these cards competing for deck slots with Past in Flames, or are all of them just so powerful that it doesn't matter?
If you want to keep your snow count up, I would start by cutting the cycling lands and Flamekin Village. I used to play all of the cycling lands in my build too, but with all of the Gauntlet effects, I found that just having more Mountains to make extra mana was overall more useful than the added utility of the nonbasics.
Alhammarret's Archive looks like a lot of fun, too! I may have to take that out for a spin (as if I needed another reason to play Goblin Lore :)).
Chandra, Flamecaller is solid. Even if you ignore her first ability and assume she will die immediately, it is still a modal Wheel/Wrath, which might still be good enough.
Looks pretty sweet! Scrap Mastery and Goblin Welder seem like pretty good payoffs for going the artifact route. And I'm happy to hear you finally got a Gauntlet! Merry Christmas to you indeed! I'm surprised to see Daretti, Scrap Savant omitted from your list. Do you ever find these cards competing for deck slots with Past in Flames, or are all of them just so powerful that it doesn't matter?
If you want to keep your snow count up, I would start by cutting the cycling lands and Flamekin Village. I used to play all of the cycling lands in my build too, but with all of the Gauntlet effects, I found that just having more Mountains to make extra mana was overall more useful than the added utility of the nonbasics.
Alhammarret's Archive looks like a lot of fun, too! I may have to take that out for a spin (as if I needed another reason to play Goblin Lore :)).
Chandra, Flamecaller is solid. Even if you ignore her first ability and assume she will die immediately, it is still a modal Wheel/Wrath, which might still be good enough.
I actually don't like Daretti, Scrap Savant that much. I mean, he's really good, but even better as the commander. And if used as commander, I think the deck should be revovled around him, which my deck wouldn't be. He's versatile, but I'd rather want a sorcery like Faithless Loothing or Scrap Mastery which I can reuse later on. So I actually havn't given him that much thought. Just hoping to more instant/sorcery artifact-recursion in red:)
After my last post i actually played a few games with it, but havn't had a chance to play Alhammarret's Archive yet, but yeah, going to be fun casting Goblin Lore with that one out:)
I played 3 1v1 games. I thought I would loose terrible to my friend GW-indestructible/control deck with a lot of artifactremoval, but I actually won 1 and got him down to 1 life in another game. The deck can be SO fast, drawing half a deck by turn 5 or something
Oh, for a moment I thought we'd hit gold with the latest spoiler, Avacyn's Judgement, but if I'm understanding it correctly, then you'll only be able to target two targets, even when the madness is paided. Would have been lovely though...
Siege is probably good, but I just don't know how to evaluate it here. I'm not playing Act On Impulse either. Maybe I should be?
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Blech, I don't think the card is any good.
I think its a decent card. Pseudo-draw 3 but IMO it's a pretty big downfall that it exiles.
Regarding Greater Gargadon, I know his purpose is not immediately obvious but he is a good role player here. First, he is one of the few pre-Squee plays we have. Second, he is a good way to get Squee in the GY so you can start generating CA. Third, he is one of the best Jokulhaups deterrents ever. And finally, he is a mana-efficient game-ending threat that serves swift elephant justice in the final turns of the game. The deck usually "goes off" on turn 8, 9, or 10, and Gargadon is probably a big factor in that.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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While it may be more limited then Past in Flames and Recoup, I definitely thinks this needs to be tested.
Edit: reading is tech. Not flashback, but pseudo draw... hmm, not so thrilled on second thought.
Seems legit. I run 9 instant/sorcery with CMC 4 or higher, which should deal with most creatures. 7 mana might be a lot, but it's not that hard generation that kind of mana with all the doublers and recursion would be much welcomed...
Edit: not seeing anything else for Squee in this set. What about you?
I am excited for Commune with Lava. This card is legit, straight up.
I like Volcanic Vision, but man it sure is expensive. It might be worth it, though. What do you suggest we cut?
On another note, as red gets more and more playable card advantage, I am wondering if it is making Squee and the Phoenix strategy less and less relevant. I keep imagining what this deck would be like if we bent the rules a little and had the flip card Tok-Tok, Volcano Born (Akki Lavarunner) as our general. I love Squee to death (literally), but has his time come? What do you think?
Also, I got to participate in some pretty crazy games last week. One of them involved three mono-red decks. Another one involved me winning during another guy's end step after the blue player tapped out to stop him from winning with a Comet Storm. He resolved a late-game Scrap Mastery with 2 cards left in his library, which brought all of my Gauntlet effects into play and gave me enough mana to Valakut + Inferno to activate Quest for Pure Flame, then follow up with my own lethal Comet Storm. Sweet!
EDIT: I updated the OP with my current list. Here are the changes:
- Bloodfire Colossus
- Knollspine Invocation
- Pyrohemia
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Nevinyrral's Disk
- Smoldering Crater
+ Impact Resonance
+ Arcbond
+ Vandalblast
+ Sol Ring
+ Ruby Medallion
+ Temple of the False God
In general, I lowered the curve, made room for more instant-speed shenanigans, and increased support for Recoup/Past in Flames. I also broke my "no mana rock" rule and added Sol Ring and the Medallion because they are just too powerful and synergistic to ignore. I am probably going to miss Colossus, but wow, is Arcbond one volatile piece of work. You can absolutely kill yourself and everybody else if you aren't careful.
EDIT2: I changed the thread title to something more amusing and appropriate.
EDIT3: This is turning into something of a deck overhaul. I want to try out a few additional changes:
- Molten Disaster
- Trading Post
- Snow-Covered Mountain
+ Acidic Soil
+ Glacial Chasm
+ Terrain Generator
Trading Post has been okay, but it has failed in its main purpose (the lifegain slot). Glacial Chasm on the other hand should effectively gain a lot of life by helping me dodge my own Infernos on a crucial turn. On a similar note, I am cutting Molten Disaster (admittedly one of my favorites) in favor of Acidic Soil to see how it goes. And finally, I am squeezing Terrain Generator into the manabase to help me take advantage of all of these wheels and card draw!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Yeah, it is... but something still makes me dislike it.
I think I will have to test this card. The 7 seven mana and sorcery speed though, makes me think it's pretty weak. I think a sweeper might be something to cut for this, since it's build into the card.
Hard question! I think I'll keep Squee, for severel reasons. He flies under the radar. No one fears him. If someone attacks me or straigt out kill my Squee, I can just play him again and again, until they don't even bother. Spotremoval and counters moves elsewhere. I still think the card advantage Squee provide makes him worth it. Once he's in the graveyard, he easily turns into another card. And he also carries warhammer and batterskull like a boss (ofc there are better options, but Squee can just sit on the board without anyone to even look a him).
Looks like you been made some big changes to the deck. Seems exciting. Havn't had a chance to try out Arcbond, but cool that it's been working som crazy madness for you. How about Impact Resonance? To me it just seems like another sweeper that requires some other damage-dealer, which doesn't even hit players.
I'd be unhappy to cut my Trading Post, but i also do play more artifacts then you and have been living the dream with it and Spine of Ish Sah. Have been playing with Terrain Generator for a while now and it's really good.
Looking forward to hear how Acidic Soil will work for you. I tend to be one of the players the most lands on the board, besides green players.
Will post my decklist, when i get the chance.
I see Commune With Lava being sort of a red Opportunity. If you cast it for 4RR on your turn, you typically get to play an exiled land before passing the turn, then next turn you can untap, play another exiled land, and go from there. Plus, it digs deep. The closer I am to casting Mana Geyser, the closer I am to winning.
Volcanic Vision isn't anything spectacular, but I want to try it out. If it brings back Wheel of Fortune or the aforementioned Mana Geyser, I'll be riding high.
After thinking about it some more and playing a few games, I am going to keep Squee. He is a good fit for all the reasons you said (well, except he almost never attacks in my version). There were just a few games in a row where I didn't even cast him because wasn't going to accomplish much of anything, but maybe a better way of looking at it was that I didn't need to cast him, since I had plenty else to do already.
Arcbond I would recommend. Impact Resonance is just okay, though. I hate that it won't damage players, but then neither does Chain Reaction, and Chain Reaction usually does good work for me. It might be a little too reactionary and situational, I think. Still, Impact Resonance can have a huge damage output for a very minimal investment.
Acidic Soil will probably hit me harder than most. It still might be good enough (even without Glacial Chasm) as another mana-efficient way to bring everyone down into burn range for the kill. I am imagining a turn beginning with Acidic Soil, Recoup, Acidic Soil. I will let you know how it turns out.
Looking forward to seeing your decklist!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Just for reference: When I first started to play magic, I always played blue. Now that I only play EDH, I almost don't play blue anymore, but as one of my friends put it: I try to make every deck feel like a blue one.
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Goblin Welder
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Mogg Maniac
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Burnished Hart
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury (maybe-cut)
1 Charmbreaker Devils (cut)
Artifacts
1 Sol Ring
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Glaws of Gix
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Expedition Map
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trading Post
1 Memory Jar
1 Skullclamp
1 Batterskull
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Phyrexian Furnace (cut)
1 Mana Flare
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods
1 Repercussion
1 Smoke (maybe-cut)
1 Pyrohemia (cut)
Instants
1 Chaos Warp
1 Into the Core
1 Price of Progress
1 Reiterate
1 Fork
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Comet Storm
1 Starstorm
1 Inferno
1 Fissure (maybe-cut)
1 Word of Seizing (cut)
Scorery
1 Gamble
1 Faithless Looting
1 Control of the Court
1 Goblin Lore
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Shattered Perception
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Molten Disaster
1 Recoup
1 Past in Flames
1 Hammer of Bogardan (maybe-cut)
1 Koth of the Hammer
Lands
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Smoldering Crater
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Buried Ruin
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kher Keep
1 Terrain Generator
4 Mountain
25 Snow-Covered Mountain
Obviously I miss some cards in the manabase. Scrying Sheets, Mouth of Ronom and Myriad Landscape are missing. I've noticed both Flamekin Village and Shivan Gorge but don't really know if they'd be worth it. Thinking of cutting Kher Keep since I just doesn't feel like it does enough and can hurt when Repercussion is out.
Want-list:
Skred
Vandalblast
Chain Reaction
Unstable Oblisk
On-radar-cards:
Arcbond: I hear it's nuts
Volcanic Vision: don't really know about this one, but could pull of some crazy plays.
Commune with Lava: Think you're right about this one. Card advantage is never bad, but lets see how it plays.
Final Fortune: In almost every game, I have this little voice telling me: "if only we had an extra turn!". This gives us one and if everything goes as planned, we shouldn't be needing any more. It's a bit of a gamble, but isn't that whats Squee is all about?
Looking forward to your suggestions!
I don't think Flamekin Village or Shivan Gorge are worthwhile here. Only 3 or 4 cards in your deck are any good with Village, and the amount of damage that Gorge deals is probably too far offset by the mana you lose on Caged Sun effects. Mouth of Ronom has been kind of meh for me, so you might try replacing it with Gorge and seeing how it turns out?
I finally got to cast Commune With Lava. It was pretty good, albeit slow. I would have a bunch of mana left over with no immediate path to victory and no immediate threat to deal with, so I would just tap out for a big Commune in the hopes of going off next turn. I flashed it back later and ended up digging about 20 cards deep over the course of the game. I still lost, but that's because I made a laughable number of misplays and deserved to lose.
Glacial Chasm is better than I thought it would be. It is a fragile thing to hide behind, but game after game I find myself wishing Chasm was in my hand so I can avoid dying (or killing myself).
Will talk more later... I am intrigued by Final Fortune but I have to go to work!
----- EDIT -----
Yes, I definitely want to try Final Fortune here. It might be sort of like another ritual spell... many times I find that I have victory in hand, but not enough mana to get there without passing the turn. I'm going to temporarily cut Ignite Memories (another dead-until-ready-to-win card, and one that is less than synergistic with Final Fortune) to give it a shot.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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I wouldn't consider this thread dead. Theres just far between the responses:) And actually, I've been wanting to give my thoughts on some of the new spoilers.
Magmatic Insight - Wild Guess #3. Don't know if I want that many, but usually I do want to discard a land, so it might be better (but only if you got a land... I'm on a fence about it).
Pyromancer's Goggles - Expensive manarock, but the effect is cool and something I'll be looking forward to doing stupid things with!
Alhammarret's Archive - It looks cool, for sure, but I don't know if it will preform as good as I hope. Makes looting insane though! Lately, I have also tried out Prophetic Flamespeaker, who gets insane with some of the lifelink-equipments, and I've been thinking about adding Basilisk Collar to the gang and with 3 lifelinkers, I might get some use out of the Archives second ability.
Any thoughts? Or did you spot some other cards, that looks good?
Would be cool to see your decklist, Sengir!
To comment on your suggestions, Hostillity sure looks fun and crazy, but I don't think I would run it since creatures can be answered alot easilier then a spell (which even sometimes will be uncounterable). Journeyer's Kite can give alot of value over time, but I like to have "put into the battlefield" effects, because I will always try to get my Valakut out asap. Getting two triggers can be really mean! I'm testing Volcanic Vision and so far I like it, even though it's expensive.
EDIT:
d0su, looking forward to hear how Final Fortune will work for you. I havn't got one atm, but will try to get one soon. Koth of the Hammer have been amazing for me. If he sticks 3 turns, it's usually game over. I like all his effects, his -2 can generate massive mana late game. I've cutted Smoke since creatures doesn't really matters with all the wipers. And with Smoke, people still got to untap the meanest creatures.
About Flamekin Village, what I like about it is this deck, is exactly because there isn't that many creatures. Getting to swing with a hasted Akorma, Angel of Fury out of nowhere, can end games.
I guess d0su and I make use of damage doublers instead of conspire, but we also want to burn everything with as much damage as possible. I wouldn't want tokens in my deck, as they would just blow up:) Do you sometimes win by a tokenswarm?
My deck generate massive value by looting like crazy, putting spells to the grave which can be reused by Recoup, which you have, but especially by Past in Flames. I think you would love it in your deck too. And maybe you can get d0su to talk about how great a card Goblin Lore is. He loves that card, right?
Thought about replacing Pilgrim's Eye with Solemn Silumacrum?
About Goblin Lore, sure it looks awfull and people will look wierd at you for playing it, but it works for me, and especially in this deck. It might not net any card advantage, but it do filters and digs for key-cards. If you got a hand full of nothing, play Goblin Lore to upgrade your hand. What ends in your graveyard, can be used with Recoup or Past in Flames later. Give it a try and see how it works for you. Sometimes it's a hit and miss, but usually im never sad to play it.
One way to look at this is, if Divination were red instead of blue, would we play it? I think the answer is a solid yes. Goblin Lore is like a Divination with a higher variance -- sometimes it is worse, other times it is a lot better, but you can rig the odds in your favor if you know how it works. The key is to engineer your hand to maximize the chance you discard useless or graveyard-centric cards, and to not get fooled into thinking you have to cast it if your hand is already good enough.
In my deck, I play 42 mana-producing lands (counting Sol Ring). I remember a game where I had a 3-Mountain opener with Goblin Lore. Turn 4 rolls around, and I still have not drawn another land. My hand is Squee, Hammer of Bogardan, Goblin Lore, and 5 other cards. I cast the 'Lore.
With 39 lands left in my 88 card deck, Lore would on average get me a hand of about 1.3 lands after all is said and done. Also, I have about a 49% chance of generating real card advantage by discarding Squee or Hammer of Bogardan, netting an average of an extra 0.55 cards, and that's not counting the fact I may draw another graveyard-centric card. Let's compare its performance to Divination and Concentrate:
I hope the table displays okay. You can see that Goblin Lore's ability to dig for mana in this scenario is not only greater than that of Divination, it is actually very close to that of a 4-mana draw-3. It will net fewer cards on average than Divination (though in this case I did in fact net 2 lands and a full card by discarding Hammer), but it also costs less mana to cast. The bonus is that if you have already found Past in Flames, then Goblin Lore's value goes up even further because you can treat any instant or sorcery as a GY-centric card.
Considering that Goblin Lore has such a low CMC and that mono-red doesn't exactly have a lot of other cards it could play in this slot, I'd say it makes the cut until they print something better -- and I am sure they will print something better, eventually.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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So Final Fortune was not really working out for me. I wanted it to be good but so far I just discard it to looting/wheel effects. If we want this effect I honestly think this is one case where Last Chance is better, since we can get it back with Recoup.
I cut it entirely, though, and slotted in the shiny new Pyromancer's Goggles in its place. Seems natural!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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If it redirected/replicated all damage done, I might try to make it work. However, I know Fire Servant isn't good enough because so much of our damage ends up coming from non-spell sources. This card suffers the same problem, unfortunately.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Of the new cards, Mizzix's Mastery and Magus of the Wheel seem like natural inclusions. I will surely find room for them.
All these great red draw spells are starting to make me wonder, is Chandra Ablaze still good enough? I feel like I need to cut Chandra Ablaze, Wheel of Fate, or Shattered Perception to make room.
EDIT:
Today I did the unthinkable. I tried out the deck with the commander as Wort, the Raidmother instead of Squee (props to SengirVampire for the idea). Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Glad to hear about Goggles. I havn't got them yet, but they been on my wishlist since it was spoiled.
I'm not sure about Mizzix's Mastery since I rarely think I would overload it. But well, it might just be worth it as a single-use.
Havn't played with Chandra myself, I can't help you with that, but saw Weebo's response on the Jaya-thread, and I do think he has a point on the disrupting part. It made me want to play her...
Since my last post, I've turned the deck a bit more to the artifact side, and acutally added Salvaging Station since I now have a decent amount of targets for it. But sadly, I havn't played that much lately, so no experience with it yet
Overloading Mizzix's Mastery has not been as great as Past in Flames, but it makes a decent Plan B. The single-use case is useful as another draw-seven and has convinced me to keep Wheel of Fate in the deck, which is generally the least reliable of the big draw spells.
Here is my current list. I updated the OP:
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
// Creatures (9)
1 Mogg Maniac
1 Burnished Hart
1 Magus of the Wheel
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Shard Phoenix
1 Magma Phoenix
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Coalhauler Swine
1 Greater Gargadon
// Pure Damage (14)
1 Firestorm
1 Skred
1 Price of Progress
1 Acidic Soil
1 Arcbond
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Chain Reaction
1 Inferno
1 Comet Storm
1 Molten Disaster
1 Repercussion
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Gamble
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Control of the Court
1 Goblin Lore
1 Molten Psyche
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Commune with Lava
// More Utility (8)
1 Shattering Spree
1 Vandalblast
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Recoup
1 Mana Flare
1 Chaos Warp
1 Past in Flames
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Mana Geyser
// Artifacts (15)
1 Expedition Map
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Pyromancer's Goggles
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Memory Jar
1 Skullclamp
1 Helm of Possession
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Terrain Generator
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Kher Keep
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Temple of the False God
32 Snow-Covered Mountain
I cut Chandra Ablaze for a little while, and so far I have not missed it. I think my build is a little more explosive than the Jaya build, and six mana for a modal Fireblast/draw-3 is not as appealing as it once was. I think I'd rather win faster than slow my opponents down.
I also cut Shattered Perception in favor of Molten Psyche. I rarely find myself flashing back the Perception, and now that the tuck rule has changed, Molten Psyche deserves another look. On the plus side, Psyche can also mess with my opponents like Chandra's -2!
Acidic Soil has also been sort of mediocre -- I'm on the lookout for a more flexible, cheap direct damage spell.
Finally, I cut a Mountain for Helm of Awakening.
----
EDIT:
Newest kill: EOT Dictate of the Twin Gods, untap, flashback Past in Flames, flashback Wheel of Fortune, flashback Firestorm for X=5, cast Increasing Vengeance from hand, flashback Increasing Vengeance for 40 damage to the table. Got there!
Just realized there should by a Pyromancer's Goggles in that list somewhere... will have to check my numbers.
EDIT2:
Turns out the card was an extra Mountain.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Goblin Welder
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Mogg Maniac
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Burnished Hart
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury (maybe-cut)
1 Prophetic Flamespeaker
Artifacts
1 Sol Ring
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Glaws of Gix
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Gauntlet of Might
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Caged Sun
1 Expedition Map
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Pyromancer's Goggles
1 Alhammarret's Archive
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trading Post
1 Salvaging Station
1 Skullclamp
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Mana Flare
1 Furnace of Rath
1 Dictate of the Twin Gods
1 Repercussion
Instants
1 Chaos Warp
1 Into the Core
1 Price of Progress
1 Reiterate
1 Fork
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Comet Storm
1 Starstorm
1 Inferno
1 Commune With Lava
1 Word of Seizing
Scorery
1 Gamble
1 Faithless Looting
1 Control of the Court
1 Goblin Lore
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Shattered Perception
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Molten Disaster
1 Recoup
1 Past in Flames
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Mana Geyser
1 Scrap Mastery
1 Vandalblast
1 Shattering Spree
1 Chain Reaction
1 Koth of the Hammer
Lands
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Smoldering Crater
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Buried Ruin
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Terrain Generator
1 Flamekin Village
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Myriad Landscape
24 Snow-Covered Mountain
Really looking forward to see how the deck is going to preform. Games in my playgroup tend to be pretty grindy, with lots of wipes, so wanted to add some artifact recursion, why i got Salvaging Station and Scrap Mastery. I got 7 targets with the station, which my be a bit low, but 3 of them will go in the yard by them selves. Alhammarret's Archive looks good with all the looting, and i do have some lifegain on my equipments which Godo can fetch, so i'm fairly sure, that it will do its job. And then i'm just really excited to play with the forth and truest mana doubler, Gauntlet of Might, thanks to pucatrade
What do you think about the new Chandra, Flamecaller? They were pretty excited on the Jaya-thread, but i only think i would use her 0-ability.
But i do think that i'm going to add Mirrorpool, since i also run Crucible of Worlds, though i'm not that fond of lowering my snow-covereds. But i can think of all sorts of funny things that land could be used for, so at least i'm going to try it out.
If you want to keep your snow count up, I would start by cutting the cycling lands and Flamekin Village. I used to play all of the cycling lands in my build too, but with all of the Gauntlet effects, I found that just having more Mountains to make extra mana was overall more useful than the added utility of the nonbasics.
Alhammarret's Archive looks like a lot of fun, too! I may have to take that out for a spin (as if I needed another reason to play Goblin Lore :)).
Chandra, Flamecaller is solid. Even if you ignore her first ability and assume she will die immediately, it is still a modal Wheel/Wrath, which might still be good enough.
-----
In other news, I hate Acidic Soil. I am swapping it out for Fiery Confluence.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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I actually don't like Daretti, Scrap Savant that much. I mean, he's really good, but even better as the commander. And if used as commander, I think the deck should be revovled around him, which my deck wouldn't be. He's versatile, but I'd rather want a sorcery like Faithless Loothing or Scrap Mastery which I can reuse later on. So I actually havn't given him that much thought. Just hoping to more instant/sorcery artifact-recursion in red:)
After my last post i actually played a few games with it, but havn't had a chance to play Alhammarret's Archive yet, but yeah, going to be fun casting Goblin Lore with that one out:)
I played 3 1v1 games. I thought I would loose terrible to my friend GW-indestructible/control deck with a lot of artifactremoval, but I actually won 1 and got him down to 1 life in another game. The deck can be SO fast, drawing half a deck by turn 5 or something