Okay, this is my Mayael deck. It used to be Uril good stuff. Then I saw that it was bad, then I changed it to Rith, still good stuff. Then, Mayael is subbed in. There's no real combos, but at least it hits hard, and hits pretty consistently. Still, I want to get some help in making it hit faster, better.
Here was my game plan. Teaming up to kill off the biggest threats, then back stab them and leave them to be picked off and die. It's a very strong style, because you'll be able to do so much with it, and nobody wants to piss off the guy with Akroma, spearbreaker and Mayael out.
I aim at the blue players first, just because they would ruin your day so much quicker. Wrath effects are okay to deal with, exile and removal is a non issue, and damage would never become my worry. So, my order is blue, white, black, red, then green. It worked out fine, and no-one really caught on what my actual plan was, they thought I was just smashing. Teaming with the green or red player would help you deal with threats, and the white player can help you in a sticky situation, while I just swung at the black and blues all day.
At the end of the day, I've learnt that it's impossible to have everything go my way (I said no creature casting, and I cast Akroma, then Blazing Archon, then artisan of Kozilek), but if you think before your bomby actions, you'll pull through. Even if you don't win, you'll make sure that people remember your deck, just because of how dangerous it is to face.
Hope people can help. Also, if you're reading this from the main list, feel free to comment, I'll be glad to respond to anything.
On the creature front try to pack guys with high utility, comes into play effects, or indestructability. Dont bother with creatures that take a long time to be effective and suck vs wrath effects.
Try to bring up the 5+ power guys as well to play off of Mayael as well. You should have at the very least 20+ guys that fall into that category in a good Mayael deck. You dont want to be whiffing every time you use her ability. I know of some Mayael decks that try for close to 30 targets with 5+ power.
I dont get why everyone includes Elixir of Immortality in their deck... you arent using heavy graveyard recursion or anything and gaining 5 life from one card sort of sucks. Cut that out it sucks for your deck.
Upping the fatty count to around 23-25 is a good number in my experience. I believe Raikou Rider made a chart in his Mayael primer about the chances of missing with Mayael depending on how many fatties you include in your deck. You may want to check that out.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
A)Getting guys out with good abilities are weird for me. I find that creatures like Pelakka Wurm by itself is great, but it doesn't help since it doesn't do TOO much. Stuff like the eldrazi titans don't actually trigger off of Mayael, which makes them kinda drop a bit in my eyes, plus every one runs them. P.titan is SO expensive money wise, I don't have one yet. Sun Titan is okay, but I lack smaller permanent that I care about recurring, except maybe Fires.
B)Elixir of Immortality helps against wrath effects, which I see a lot of. Also, it helps refill the library if the games take too long.
C) Ramping. Good god, is it hard to balance ramping with this deck. Too much, Mayael never triggers, too little, you never get to use Mayael. At the moment, Mayael is never hitting anything, and I don't like that. I've thought of cutting some spells that are too big, but don't know which ones to cut.
Bloodbraid elf: only hits signets, fires, ramp, elixir, top, and the only bad option, STP. It's solid, even if the power is a bit down.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Ok first of all the eldrazi arent in there to be cast. Cheat them in at the end of your opponents turns means that you have an enromous creature with essentiall haste that annihilates for 4 on attack. Ulamog is hard to stop as well due to his indestructability. Dont worry about loosing the on cast effect as connecting to someone's face is totally worth it.
Primeval Titan is expensive... but its amazing. See if your meta is ok with proxying cards as it is worth inclusion in the deck.
You dont need to get your threats back with the elixer. Loosing your graveyard isnt the same as loosing cards in hand or play unless you are playing recursion. Screw it just move on to the next target. If you run the eldrazi they can shuffle stuff back in for you and be on a good threat.
As for Mayael not hitting things, that is due to your big creature curve being too low. You want that 20+ fatties that she can hit for sure. I would get it closer to 30 though if I were you.
Ok Here are a few suggestions for you to cut: Glory not big enough for mayael and you want it in your bin. Genesis is a lot better as well and you dont have much for sac outlets / discard outlets to get it there. Godsire its slow and prone to be wrathed. Sure it is funny if left alone but it doesnt do anything right away. I like comes into play abilities or leaves play abilities to really get some value out of a card. Chameleon Colossus not big enough to target with Mayael so I would cut him. Weathered Wayfarer replace it with a Primeval Titan when you can. He is crazy good. Hydra Omnivore sort of bad fatty as it has no evasion and no haste. I guess with the fact that if it connects anywhere it does its damage its alright but it begs to be mazed by anyone with one free. If he had shroud I or something I would be all over him but with no evasion... I just dont know. Stonecloaker he is alright... but you need room for more fatties. He could be cut. Vengeful Archon terribad creature. Run either of the Akromas instead. Bloodbraid Elf he is alright in the fact that he doesnt whiff too much in your deck but you need to clear out some spots for fatties for mayael to hit. Hunted Troll this is just bad... really bad. I dont like him as a target for Mayael at all. Pelakka Wurm I guess this one is servicable if you really like it. If you want to tune the deck out I would eventually cut him though. Uril, the Miststalker great as a commander, really lacking as a simple creature in a deck with no auras.
Far Wanderings swap this for one of the earlier ramp spells I suggested. Overwhelming Stampede dont worry about tricks to finish people just run the biggest fatties and run them over. World at War dont worry about combat tricks to finish people Just drop more threats and run them over. Pure/Simple I feel like it is a bit situational. It sort of sucks against mono colored decks. Just run another generic removal spell I listed elsewhere. Rith's Charm I feel like an extra removal might be better than this. Perhaps Chaos Warp, Path to Exile, or Condemn Garruk Wildspeaker planeswalkers are hard to protect in EDH. You dont have much removal to deal with unblockable / direct destruction of them in my opinion. Unless they are really really good in the deck I usually dont bother. Sarkhan Vol same as above
Oblivion Ring -> Oblation it is instant speed and it tucks the problem. My issue with Oblivion Ring is it gets blown as calateral damage during things like Oblivion Stone and what not. Then an OMG threat gets unlocked. Not a fan of it. You could also consider running Beast Within instead if it suits you more.
OK there is a list of some things you could replace. Try to get a few of the guys I mentioned before and Akroma, Angel of Wrath could be a solid add as well. She has haste and pro 2 colors as well as like every other ability you could want on a white creature. She is totally amazing and I find myself adding her to a lot of decklists.
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You have some fatties, but remember that maya's effect only works on cards wiht power 5 or greater, so even if its CVM is high it might not be found by her effect. I would also look for more ramp, it never hurts when your playing that many expensive cards.
Okay, responding to this cards. First of all, thanks for feedback, and no offense if I sound like an ass.
ShiShiZaru:
Krosan Tusker Eternal Dragon: dragon doesn't do a whole lot, since I don't have the duals. Tusker is cool, but a one off? Maybe
Bogardan Hellkite: It cost 8, and not that useful past the etb trigger, which isn't that good to begin with.
Artisan of Kozilek: Have him in there
It that Betrays: I'll get him as soon as I get Ulamog, cause three world eating fatties is enough.
Blightsteel Colossus: On the grounds of not being too much of a dick, no. Sorry, but personal choice.
Cutting:
Primal Command: If I do, should I get a tutor instead?
Overwhelming Stampede, World at War: Can't a man just like mass genocide? I want overkill, that's all
Dreamstone Hedron: The use of it never stops to amaze me, even when it's a bad card. I know it's not a Sol Ring, but this deck runs higher cmc, so it really helps mid-game
Chord of Calling, Restock: Recursion is a thing, but if there's better options, I'll love to hear it.
Weathered Wafarer: Yeah, I'll cut him. The mana is stable enough, he's not worth it anymore, but I just like clerics, so he's just been there.
You cuts were really harsh, but straight to the point, great eyes.
ISBPathfinder:
Seriously, you've got like the craziest work rate here. So many choices, I'll try to speed things up
Glory: cut
Godsire: He's really a greater good engine. Considered
Chameleon Colossus: only reason he's in here, there's a guy that plays a mono-black aggro. Considered
Hydra Omnivore: Just put him in, haven't tested. At least it's a target, and for now it's a choice.
Stonecloaker:Graveyard removal, not really on target, but meh.
Vengeful Archon: On the to be replaced list, again.
Bloodbraid Elf: dunno about him yet. He's never been bad.
Hunted Troll: He cost 4 and has 8 power, so it's hard for me to say. Hard to replace, but if I can find something that's worth while...
Pelakka Wurm: I REALLY like this bad boy, but that's no reason not to cut it.
Uril, the Miststalker: Would Rith be better? No, then I don't know.
Far Wanderings: threshold means so much in this format, and three extra lands on turn 7 is nothing to joke about.
Pure/Simple: It takes care of a lot of generals in this area, and kills the Godo. It fits the bill here at least.
Rith's Charm: It's for the non basic hate, but could be gone. Considered
Garruk Wildspeaker, Sarkhan Vol: My deck lacks haste, and Sharkhan helps with that. Garruk is just Garruk. No, in the web of war isn't a better option in my mind, having to pay an extra R is hard in this deck sometimes, believe it or not.
O-ring: Oblation when I can get it.
Also, elixir is gone when Ulamog comes in. At that time, I'll also get one of the Akroma's, prefer the white one, but the red one comes with better protection that I care about.
Avenger of Zenikar: God that thing is bad. Not that the card is bad, but EVERYONE hates it. Not even the token deck runs it, just because no one likes you after wards. I'm scared that I'll get punched if I mayael into that thing too many times.
What I'm really looking for is more swinging, less caring. But, having a bit of defense is still good.
Again, I'm trying to make this as neutral as possible in this, but personal preferences make me sound like these are perfect, which is not the case at all. If people still have comments, please make them.
From what I have seen from my buddy's Mayael deck is that he actually uses his mana and Mayael to defend himself. Nobody wants to swing at Mayael when you have your commander ready to use and mana open. That means you will in response to the attack cheat out a big fatty and eat my blockers. Thus she can defend herself with just open mana.
Dont worry much about haste. Try to get things that do something when they come into play, or have some toughness like persist or indestructability to them. Use Mayael as a haste engine and just toss guys out at the end of your opponents turns. If someone wraths the board you can trigger her and see if you have something worth throwing in before hand. If someone attacks you activate and look for a big old blocker. She is a weapon and if you can bring up your fatty count, activating her for a fatty becomes a much bigger possibility. Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots both work good as haste outlets especially since you only drop 1-2 big fatties a turn.
Chameleon Colossus -> once the guy catches on protection from black actually does very little. You could have Akroma, Angel of Wrath in this spot which interacts with Mayael much better as well as the fact that she has vigilance which lets you swing at him and still defend yoruself with her. Black should have plenty of ways to kill it such as Damnation, Mutilate, Barter in Blood, Oblivion Stone, Edict effects, Duplicant... etc. I think you are better without him personally.
Uril, the Miststalker, you dont need this guy or Rith. I think they are both underpowered for a Mayael deck. How about Blazing Archon or something? That can be an amazing defensive move to cheat the archon out during a declares attack phase.
Consider Worldy Tutor and Congregation at Dawn. Both of these effects let you stack the top of your library which is amazing with Mayael. Wait until the end of your opponents turns and stack Ulamog on top and cheat him right into play for only 7 mana. Seems good to me.
Okay, responding to this cards. First of all, thanks for feedback, and no offense if I sound like an ass.
ShiShiZaru:
Krosan Tusker Eternal Dragon: dragon doesn't do a whole lot, since I don't have the duals. Tusker is cool, but a one off? Maybe The good thing about these guys is that they serve double purpose. They can't ramp you if you get them early and they trigger off of Mayael. If you use Mayael's ability and hit nothing but an Eternal Dragon, it's better than nothing AND you can recur it. The Tusker is just plain good. Oh and you don't need dual lands to make these work.
Bogardan Hellkite: It cost 8, and not that useful past the etb trigger, which isn't that good to begin with. Fair enough, though my brother has had great experiences with him in his Mayael deck. You'd be surprised by how many generals you can off with this guy (he's killed 3 before).
Artisan of Kozilek: Have him in there
It that Betrays: I'll get him as soon as I get Ulamog, cause three world eating fatties is enough. This guy is a beast.
Blightsteel Colossus: On the grounds of not being too much of a dick, no. Sorry, but personal choice. Fair enough.
Cutting:
Primal Command: If I do, should I get a tutor instead? You could add in Worldly Tutor
Overwhelming Stampede, World at War: Can't a man just like mass genocide? I want overkill, that's all I understand this (it is fun to swing with 120 damage) but relying on an avalanche of creatures to stomp is generally a better way of playing Mayael than playing combat tricks.
Dreamstone Hedron: The use of it never stops to amaze me, even when it's a bad card. I know it's not a Sol Ring, but this deck runs higher cmc, so it really helps mid-game Ok, though you have other good green options and I generally don't like having too many expensive spells in Mayael, I understand that (especially) the draw can prove useful.
Chord of Calling, Restock: Recursion is a thing, but if there's better options, I'll love to hear it. Restock is just plain clunky in my opinion. I'd definitely include Eternal Witness in its place.
Weathered Wafarer: Yeah, I'll cut him. The mana is stable enough, he's not worth it anymore, but I just like clerics, so he's just been there.
You cuts were really harsh, but straight to the point, great eyes.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
OH man Vorinclex, then I'll have some serious mana! Like wake+V+reflection man. That's so EVIL! Loving it.
Haste: Good call on the thing, I've never used her ability was also a defense tool. That could really help. Tutors are good, but whatever, Worldly is hard to trade for here somehow, but I'll find one to get, maybe.
C.Colossus: Yeah, sure, fine. I get where it's coming from, and it sounds slower.
Rith, Uril: I'm conseding my point of them, but need to replace them.
Tusker: I actually considered him, but he cost a million to hard cast for such a vanilla creature otherwise. Dragon is definte no go though. Even with Akroma, white is the least common of my colors, and recurring him just takes more mana that I could search with, which isn't good.
It that betrays: agreed, so good. But I'll like to have a bit more support with him, so that's why I would like to also get Ulamog in there as well. Don't really need Kozlik, and don't want to overspend this one deck with too many titans.
Combat tricks: truth be told, I've had good luck with these two cards, and always had them in hideaway. So yeah.
Rampaging Baloths somewhat good. I used to use it in my Jenara deck and its alright in the fact that you can get multiple bodies right away. It sort of sucks though in the fact that it does nothing but create stompey guys. I eventually cut it but its not the worst thing you could run. I guess I would say it is servicable and fairly decent. It suffers from not doing anything right away though if you expect a wrath.
Cliffrunner Behemoth lifegain sort of sucks in EDH as a lot of times you will die to commander dammage or someone comboing out so lifegain doesnt matter in those situations. Having 3 toughness is a bit worrysome as well and I hate cards that can situationally be alright. If it always had haste it would be better but it feels like a bad Vengevine to me.
Windbrisk Raptor bad! dont worry about lifegain in EDH. You are better off with Akroma to defend you or Blazing Archon so they just cannot attack you.
If you are looking for creatures to run I would say that the Rampaging Baloths is probably the better of the 3. I dont know if I would say it is an ideal creature for the deck but if you need to plug some holes it will do alright.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I'm gonna say BS on life gain. Gaining small amounts of life isn't a bad thing, and that extra 15 life really helps when the black player hits for a good amount across the board. It's always helpful, and I usually can block general damage enough for it not to suffice anything too important.
Ok and when someone does an infinite combo and destroys all of your land and creatures where does that 15+ life put you?
Some commanders are extremely difficult to stop from hitting you such as Uril and Zur. Good luck stopping them with your lifegain. It is just a matter of time before your meta becomes more competative and lifegain gets less useful.
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Well, I'm not gonna be able to do anything about it anyways if it's an infinite combo, so might as well enjoy it for the ride, right? I'm playing a general that cheats big creatures in, my last concern should be the rest of the table. To me, they should be targets and boards to blow up. However, Blazing Archon is a better option, so there's that.
Oracle: MOAR RAMPING. Do people actually just play a ramp.dec? It's fun to have no variation?
I'd say Oracle should replace Harrow if you're leaning too hard on ramp. It works well with Cultivate and Kodama's Reach and helps clean the top cards of your deck to take some guesswork out of Mayael.
Hexproof is better than shroud, but making your biggies unblockable is priceless – in this type of deck, re-usable evasion is key. A Hydra Omivore that can't be chumped or doom bladed? I think it's worth it.
If you sort of like the idea of fling I would instead change it to Grab the Reins the cool part here is it is more versatile and can steal an opponents creature and fling it into another creature. Great for 2 for oneing opposing creatures. Also it works on indestructable guys.
Also I support Oracle over Harrow. Oracle clears your land drops and can clear your way from fatty to fatty easier. It is essentially card advantage with green especially if used with Sylvan Library or Divining Top.
Hexproof + haste is much better than unblockable and shroud. If you want another protection go with the boots. Plus they equip for less.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So, as a pretty hefty Mayael player, let me attempt to shed some light and provide some suggestions / comments.
1. Strategy:
Whats your strategy here? Yes i realize ... Mayael into big fatties, but there's a lot more to it than that. Someone already mentioned here that Mayael + mana is a defense mechanism. Mayael can be used Politically (see my Primer on Mayael in my signature) or you can go strait aggro.
Your support cards section should reflect your strategy. i'm struggling to see an over all strategy here with yours, there's a lot of stuff going on.
Whats your arguments for the following cards? Chameleon Colossus - Yeah this guy GETS big.. but you can't even mayael him. Magmatic Force - Unless ure in a 6 player game this damage is weak and slow.. Spellbreaker Behemoth - Why are you making casting creatures uncounterable if you're going to cheat them in with Mayael? This doesn't make sense. Hunted Troll - there are better big creatures that can regenerate than this guy. It That Betrays - are you forcing opponents to sacrifice....? Artisan of Kozilek - Why would you cast this guy. U shouldn't be casting cards in a Mayael deck.. Overwhelming Stampede - this just seems like win more. whats the point. World at War - also just seems like win more... doesn't add anything to your strategy.
Right anwyay that highlights a few of the questionable card choices but let me toss strategy at you:
You really should be capitalizing on Mayael's ability. Why would you have huge expensive creatures that should be CAST. One strategy is more ways to cheat cards into play:
This would vastly speed up the ability for you to get your big fatties onto the field. These also act as failsafes if Mayael gets removed. Why would you want to spend 10 mana to cast a creature.. when you could just tap your elvish piper. or something else.
The entire point of Mayael is to manage the top of your library to maximise your creature drops. Someone else on this thread hit it right, ~28 big 5pwr+ creatures is the way to go. Other ways to maximise the efficiency of what's on top of your deck:
All of these cards i've suggested and stragety would help fine tune this down to be more efficient and accurate. And you still get to play your big fat creatures that Mayael does best.
I don't necessarily agree with some of the other comments other people have made, like Life Gain etc... It has it's value... but my feelings are: there's no reason to gain 1000 life if you're just gona die from 21 general damage or 10 poison counters. (that being said i DO run Windbrisk Raptor. but maybe it's time it comes out)
The other primer on this forum has a beast-based Mayael build centered around Contested Cliffs. Definitely check it out.
I think you've got a good start on Mayael but if you want to maximize it's efficiency and consistency ... you need to stream line it down a particular path. Hope this helps!
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
GSZ: It's kinda just chord of calling, but worst in this deck. Most of my creatures don't have green, or is green, but need more mana to make it work. I've tried it, and it's kinda only meh.
My plan: I guess it's the same plan as every other Mayael deck starting, beats hard and fast
Card selection:
Colossus: I've actually met up with the black player in my play group, and he's changing decks. So, most likely a cut
M.Force: Testing, I like having to deal with small creatures, and this lets me do that. I could see it cut, not at the moment, though.
Spellbreaker: I like the cost of him, and it's most really that bad. Because my lack of tutors, I really can't Mayael my whole deck, and this helps the creatures not die to counters.
Troll: Meh. Personal choice, it's mana light, and can dish out early beats. It's not great, but it's a card I have.
Eldrazi, the non legendary ones: It's big enough to be a threat, and even if I draw them by accident it can still be playable cards.
World at war, Stempede: I know, I know, but having a spell light deck kinda scares me. If people think cuttable, then I'll try it out next time.
MOAR CHEATING:
Elvish piper: tried it, didn't like it. It's prone to damage, and it hit me the wrong way for some reason.
Amulet: gonna get the M12 version, it's so nice they gave me that toy.
Hideaway lands: have them
Artifacts that cheat in: Sure, my cards are better than their cards, and they have more value in them
Call of the wild: Nice, gotta try that
Survival, Fauna: Did I mention I'm a poor student that can't afford all these fancy stuff, I should've said that.
Top deck:
Scroll rack: Too much money
Library: money
Cream of the crop: oh, that's a major hit and miss. On one hand, it does things that are cool, but on the other hand, but I could see it screwing me over somehow, just somehow.
Helping Mayael:
Seedborne, Awakening, etc effects: Good cards, hard to come by
rings: personally like it, but undecided.
I hope these responses are not mood crushing. I know the way I say this sounds bad, but I will check most of these cards out to test.
1 Mayael the Anima
Creatures
1 Akroma, angel of Wrath
1 Godsire
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Garruk's Horde
1 Magmatic Force
1 Angel of Salvation
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Spellbreaker Behemoth
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Terastodon
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Pelakka Wurm
1 It That Betrays
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Deathless Angel
1 Vengeful Archon
1 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs
1 Blazing Archon
1 Stalking Vengeance
1 Moldgraf Monstrosity
1 Cultivate
1 Far Wanderings
1 Shattering Spree
1 Primal Command
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Austere Command
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Genesis Wave
Instant
1 Harrow
1 Krosan Grip
1 Chord of Calling
1 Congregation at Dawn
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Naya Charm
1 Oblation
Planeswalker
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Sarkhan Vol
Enchantment
1 Mana Reflection
1 Greater Good
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Lurking Predators
1 Awakening
Artifacts
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Omen Machine
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Gate of Aether
1 Drreamstone Hedron
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Coalition Relic
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Birthing Pod
1 Shivan Oasis
1 Mosswort Bridge
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Rith's Grove
1 Elfhame Palace
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Windbrisk Heights
1 Jungle Shrine
1 Terramorphic Expanse
7 Plains
7 Mountain
12 Forest
Okay, this is my Mayael deck. It used to be Uril good stuff. Then I saw that it was bad, then I changed it to Rith, still good stuff. Then, Mayael is subbed in. There's no real combos, but at least it hits hard, and hits pretty consistently. Still, I want to get some help in making it hit faster, better.
Here was my game plan. Teaming up to kill off the biggest threats, then back stab them and leave them to be picked off and die. It's a very strong style, because you'll be able to do so much with it, and nobody wants to piss off the guy with Akroma, spearbreaker and Mayael out.
I aim at the blue players first, just because they would ruin your day so much quicker. Wrath effects are okay to deal with, exile and removal is a non issue, and damage would never become my worry. So, my order is blue, white, black, red, then green. It worked out fine, and no-one really caught on what my actual plan was, they thought I was just smashing. Teaming with the green or red player would help you deal with threats, and the white player can help you in a sticky situation, while I just swung at the black and blues all day.
At the end of the day, I've learnt that it's impossible to have everything go my way (I said no creature casting, and I cast Akroma, then Blazing Archon, then artisan of Kozilek), but if you think before your bomby actions, you'll pull through. Even if you don't win, you'll make sure that people remember your deck, just because of how dangerous it is to face.
Hope people can help. Also, if you're reading this from the main list, feel free to comment, I'll be glad to respond to anything.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?
Try to bring up the 5+ power guys as well to play off of Mayael as well. You should have at the very least 20+ guys that fall into that category in a good Mayael deck. You dont want to be whiffing every time you use her ability. I know of some Mayael decks that try for close to 30 targets with 5+ power.
Try to revamp some of your ramp. Explosive Vegitation and Skyshroud Claim are worth taking a look at.
I dont get why everyone includes Elixir of Immortality in their deck... you arent using heavy graveyard recursion or anything and gaining 5 life from one card sort of sucks. Cut that out it sucks for your deck.
Where are Primeval Titan, Avenger of Zendikar, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth at? They are all good solid creatures. I would also consider Inferno Titan and Sun Titan as they are both really solid as well. I havent played a Mayael deck but in my experience all of those creatures I listed are very big and splashy. You might consider adding some of them to your list.
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Upping the fatty count to around 23-25 is a good number in my experience. I believe Raikou Rider made a chart in his Mayael primer about the chances of missing with Mayael depending on how many fatties you include in your deck. You may want to check that out.
B)Elixir of Immortality helps against wrath effects, which I see a lot of. Also, it helps refill the library if the games take too long.
C) Ramping. Good god, is it hard to balance ramping with this deck. Too much, Mayael never triggers, too little, you never get to use Mayael. At the moment, Mayael is never hitting anything, and I don't like that. I've thought of cutting some spells that are too big, but don't know which ones to cut.
Bloodbraid elf: only hits signets, fires, ramp, elixir, top, and the only bad option, STP. It's solid, even if the power is a bit down.
Also, anything that's cuttable in people's eyes?
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Kemba, Kostume
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Primeval Titan is expensive... but its amazing. See if your meta is ok with proxying cards as it is worth inclusion in the deck.
You dont need to get your threats back with the elixer. Loosing your graveyard isnt the same as loosing cards in hand or play unless you are playing recursion. Screw it just move on to the next target. If you run the eldrazi they can shuffle stuff back in for you and be on a good threat.
As for Mayael not hitting things, that is due to your big creature curve being too low. You want that 20+ fatties that she can hit for sure. I would get it closer to 30 though if I were you.
Ok Here are a few suggestions for you to cut:
Glory not big enough for mayael and you want it in your bin. Genesis is a lot better as well and you dont have much for sac outlets / discard outlets to get it there.
Godsire its slow and prone to be wrathed. Sure it is funny if left alone but it doesnt do anything right away. I like comes into play abilities or leaves play abilities to really get some value out of a card.
Chameleon Colossus not big enough to target with Mayael so I would cut him.
Weathered Wayfarer replace it with a Primeval Titan when you can. He is crazy good.
Hydra Omnivore sort of bad fatty as it has no evasion and no haste. I guess with the fact that if it connects anywhere it does its damage its alright but it begs to be mazed by anyone with one free. If he had shroud I or something I would be all over him but with no evasion... I just dont know.
Stonecloaker he is alright... but you need room for more fatties. He could be cut.
Vengeful Archon terribad creature. Run either of the Akromas instead.
Bloodbraid Elf he is alright in the fact that he doesnt whiff too much in your deck but you need to clear out some spots for fatties for mayael to hit.
Hunted Troll this is just bad... really bad. I dont like him as a target for Mayael at all.
Pelakka Wurm I guess this one is servicable if you really like it. If you want to tune the deck out I would eventually cut him though.
Uril, the Miststalker great as a commander, really lacking as a simple creature in a deck with no auras.
Far Wanderings swap this for one of the earlier ramp spells I suggested.
Overwhelming Stampede dont worry about tricks to finish people just run the biggest fatties and run them over.
World at War dont worry about combat tricks to finish people Just drop more threats and run them over.
Pure/Simple I feel like it is a bit situational. It sort of sucks against mono colored decks. Just run another generic removal spell I listed elsewhere.
Rith's Charm I feel like an extra removal might be better than this. Perhaps Chaos Warp, Path to Exile, or Condemn
Garruk Wildspeaker planeswalkers are hard to protect in EDH. You dont have much removal to deal with unblockable / direct destruction of them in my opinion. Unless they are really really good in the deck I usually dont bother.
Sarkhan Vol same as above
Oblivion Ring -> Oblation it is instant speed and it tucks the problem. My issue with Oblivion Ring is it gets blown as calateral damage during things like Oblivion Stone and what not. Then an OMG threat gets unlocked. Not a fan of it. You could also consider running Beast Within instead if it suits you more.
OK there is a list of some things you could replace. Try to get a few of the guys I mentioned before and Akroma, Angel of Wrath could be a solid add as well. She has haste and pro 2 colors as well as like every other ability you could want on a white creature. She is totally amazing and I find myself adding her to a lot of decklists.
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Soldier Primer
Sig by ol MISAKA lo
My Trades
ShiShiZaru:
Krosan Tusker Eternal Dragon: dragon doesn't do a whole lot, since I don't have the duals. Tusker is cool, but a one off? Maybe
Bogardan Hellkite: It cost 8, and not that useful past the etb trigger, which isn't that good to begin with.
Artisan of Kozilek: Have him in there
It that Betrays: I'll get him as soon as I get Ulamog, cause three world eating fatties is enough.
Blightsteel Colossus: On the grounds of not being too much of a dick, no. Sorry, but personal choice.
Cutting:
Primal Command: If I do, should I get a tutor instead?
Overwhelming Stampede, World at War: Can't a man just like mass genocide? I want overkill, that's all
Dreamstone Hedron: The use of it never stops to amaze me, even when it's a bad card. I know it's not a Sol Ring, but this deck runs higher cmc, so it really helps mid-game
Chord of Calling, Restock: Recursion is a thing, but if there's better options, I'll love to hear it.
Weathered Wafarer: Yeah, I'll cut him. The mana is stable enough, he's not worth it anymore, but I just like clerics, so he's just been there.
You cuts were really harsh, but straight to the point, great eyes.
ISBPathfinder:
Seriously, you've got like the craziest work rate here. So many choices, I'll try to speed things up
Glory: cut
Godsire: He's really a greater good engine. Considered
Chameleon Colossus: only reason he's in here, there's a guy that plays a mono-black aggro. Considered
Hydra Omnivore: Just put him in, haven't tested. At least it's a target, and for now it's a choice.
Stonecloaker:Graveyard removal, not really on target, but meh.
Vengeful Archon: On the to be replaced list, again.
Bloodbraid Elf: dunno about him yet. He's never been bad.
Hunted Troll: He cost 4 and has 8 power, so it's hard for me to say. Hard to replace, but if I can find something that's worth while...
Pelakka Wurm: I REALLY like this bad boy, but that's no reason not to cut it.
Uril, the Miststalker: Would Rith be better? No, then I don't know.
Far Wanderings: threshold means so much in this format, and three extra lands on turn 7 is nothing to joke about.
Pure/Simple: It takes care of a lot of generals in this area, and kills the Godo. It fits the bill here at least.
Rith's Charm: It's for the non basic hate, but could be gone. Considered
Garruk Wildspeaker, Sarkhan Vol: My deck lacks haste, and Sharkhan helps with that. Garruk is just Garruk. No, in the web of war isn't a better option in my mind, having to pay an extra R is hard in this deck sometimes, believe it or not.
O-ring: Oblation when I can get it.
Also, elixir is gone when Ulamog comes in. At that time, I'll also get one of the Akroma's, prefer the white one, but the red one comes with better protection that I care about.
Avenger of Zenikar: God that thing is bad. Not that the card is bad, but EVERYONE hates it. Not even the token deck runs it, just because no one likes you after wards. I'm scared that I'll get punched if I mayael into that thing too many times.
What I'm really looking for is more swinging, less caring. But, having a bit of defense is still good.
Again, I'm trying to make this as neutral as possible in this, but personal preferences make me sound like these are perfect, which is not the case at all. If people still have comments, please make them.
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Dont worry much about haste. Try to get things that do something when they come into play, or have some toughness like persist or indestructability to them. Use Mayael as a haste engine and just toss guys out at the end of your opponents turns. If someone wraths the board you can trigger her and see if you have something worth throwing in before hand. If someone attacks you activate and look for a big old blocker. She is a weapon and if you can bring up your fatty count, activating her for a fatty becomes a much bigger possibility. Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots both work good as haste outlets especially since you only drop 1-2 big fatties a turn.
Chameleon Colossus -> once the guy catches on protection from black actually does very little. You could have Akroma, Angel of Wrath in this spot which interacts with Mayael much better as well as the fact that she has vigilance which lets you swing at him and still defend yoruself with her. Black should have plenty of ways to kill it such as Damnation, Mutilate, Barter in Blood, Oblivion Stone, Edict effects, Duplicant... etc. I think you are better without him personally.
Uril, the Miststalker, you dont need this guy or Rith. I think they are both underpowered for a Mayael deck. How about Blazing Archon or something? That can be an amazing defensive move to cheat the archon out during a declares attack phase.
Consider Worldy Tutor and Congregation at Dawn. Both of these effects let you stack the top of your library which is amazing with Mayael. Wait until the end of your opponents turns and stack Ulamog on top and cheat him right into play for only 7 mana. Seems good to me.
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Responses in bold. Also, Bloodbraid Elf is kind of a pet card of mine as well, but it really isn't great here. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Woodfall Primus, and Greater Gargadon are also very strong creatures that should definitely be considered.
Ohhhhhh man Vorinclex is sooooooo good in Mayel. Put him in.
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Haste: Good call on the thing, I've never used her ability was also a defense tool. That could really help. Tutors are good, but whatever, Worldly is hard to trade for here somehow, but I'll find one to get, maybe.
C.Colossus: Yeah, sure, fine. I get where it's coming from, and it sounds slower.
Rith, Uril: I'm conseding my point of them, but need to replace them.
Tusker: I actually considered him, but he cost a million to hard cast for such a vanilla creature otherwise. Dragon is definte no go though. Even with Akroma, white is the least common of my colors, and recurring him just takes more mana that I could search with, which isn't good.
It that betrays: agreed, so good. But I'll like to have a bit more support with him, so that's why I would like to also get Ulamog in there as well. Don't really need Kozlik, and don't want to overspend this one deck with too many titans.
Combat tricks: truth be told, I've had good luck with these two cards, and always had them in hideaway. So yeah.
eternal witness: too bad she's not 5 power.
G.G: meh. Never like having my things dead.
Here's a question: Cliffhanger Behemoth, Rampaging Baloths, Windbrisk Raptor? Good, or bad?
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Kemba, Kostume
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Rampaging Baloths somewhat good. I used to use it in my Jenara deck and its alright in the fact that you can get multiple bodies right away. It sort of sucks though in the fact that it does nothing but create stompey guys. I eventually cut it but its not the worst thing you could run. I guess I would say it is servicable and fairly decent. It suffers from not doing anything right away though if you expect a wrath.
Cliffrunner Behemoth lifegain sort of sucks in EDH as a lot of times you will die to commander dammage or someone comboing out so lifegain doesnt matter in those situations. Having 3 toughness is a bit worrysome as well and I hate cards that can situationally be alright. If it always had haste it would be better but it feels like a bad Vengevine to me.
Windbrisk Raptor bad! dont worry about lifegain in EDH. You are better off with Akroma to defend you or Blazing Archon so they just cannot attack you.
If you are looking for creatures to run I would say that the Rampaging Baloths is probably the better of the 3. I dont know if I would say it is an ideal creature for the deck but if you need to plug some holes it will do alright.
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:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
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Kemba, Kostume
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Some commanders are extremely difficult to stop from hitting you such as Uril and Zur. Good luck stopping them with your lifegain. It is just a matter of time before your meta becomes more competative and lifegain gets less useful.
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:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
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Kemba, Kostume
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Hamletback Goliath: insane growth, works great with
Fling: deal direct damage to finish off a player.
Oracle of Mul Daya: ramp and knowing exactly what you're going to get with Mayael.
Whispersilk Cloak: Shroud your general or make your beasts unblockable.
Hamletback: No evasion, easy to kill, but it's really awesome to grow. If I have to, I'll put one in to fluff the deck
Fling: No. Just no. I have enough problems having my creatures stay on the field as is. Something like a stalking vengeance or pandemonium is better.
Oracle: MOAR RAMPING. Do people actually just play a ramp.dec? It's fun to have no variation?
Cloak: hexproof boots are better.
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Kemba, Kostume
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I'd say Oracle should replace Harrow if you're leaning too hard on ramp. It works well with Cultivate and Kodama's Reach and helps clean the top cards of your deck to take some guesswork out of Mayael.
Hexproof is better than shroud, but making your biggies unblockable is priceless – in this type of deck, re-usable evasion is key. A Hydra Omivore that can't be chumped or doom bladed? I think it's worth it.
BTW, love the deck name.
Also I support Oracle over Harrow. Oracle clears your land drops and can clear your way from fatty to fatty easier. It is essentially card advantage with green especially if used with Sylvan Library or Divining Top.
Hexproof + haste is much better than unblockable and shroud. If you want another protection go with the boots. Plus they equip for less.
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:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
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Kemba, Kostume
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1. Strategy:
Whats your strategy here? Yes i realize ... Mayael into big fatties, but there's a lot more to it than that. Someone already mentioned here that Mayael + mana is a defense mechanism. Mayael can be used Politically (see my Primer on Mayael in my signature) or you can go strait aggro.
Your support cards section should reflect your strategy. i'm struggling to see an over all strategy here with yours, there's a lot of stuff going on.
Whats your arguments for the following cards?
Chameleon Colossus - Yeah this guy GETS big.. but you can't even mayael him.
Magmatic Force - Unless ure in a 6 player game this damage is weak and slow..
Spellbreaker Behemoth - Why are you making casting creatures uncounterable if you're going to cheat them in with Mayael? This doesn't make sense.
Hunted Troll - there are better big creatures that can regenerate than this guy.
It That Betrays - are you forcing opponents to sacrifice....?
Artisan of Kozilek - Why would you cast this guy. U shouldn't be casting cards in a Mayael deck..
Overwhelming Stampede - this just seems like win more. whats the point.
World at War - also just seems like win more... doesn't add anything to your strategy.
Right anwyay that highlights a few of the questionable card choices but let me toss strategy at you:
You really should be capitalizing on Mayael's ability. Why would you have huge expensive creatures that should be CAST. One strategy is more ways to cheat cards into play:
- Quicksilver Amulet
- Elvish Piper
- Windbrisk Heights
- Mosswort Bridge
- Spinerock Knoll
- Gate to the Aether
- Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman
- Defense of the Heart
- Omen Machine
- Lurking Predators
- Call of the Wild
etc... and many moreThis would vastly speed up the ability for you to get your big fatties onto the field. These also act as failsafes if Mayael gets removed. Why would you want to spend 10 mana to cast a creature.. when you could just tap your elvish piper. or something else.
Ok so thats more cheating effects.
Aggro - you could easily pick the speed of this deck up to get it pumping out faster. Need to get Mayael out faster, Winding Canyons, Hall of the Bandit Lord, more mana rocks like Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring.Impromptu Raid is also a nasty way to get your fatties out and fast. There's a lot of ways to give ure creatures haste, you've got Fires of Yavimaya, but there's also In the Web of War and Fervor to check out.
2. Top Deck Manipulation.
The entire point of Mayael is to manage the top of your library to maximise your creature drops. Someone else on this thread hit it right, ~28 big 5pwr+ creatures is the way to go. Other ways to maximise the efficiency of what's on top of your deck:
And then there are ways to maximize Mayael's Ability:
All of these cards i've suggested and stragety would help fine tune this down to be more efficient and accurate. And you still get to play your big fat creatures that Mayael does best.
I don't necessarily agree with some of the other comments other people have made, like Life Gain etc... It has it's value... but my feelings are: there's no reason to gain 1000 life if you're just gona die from 21 general damage or 10 poison counters. (that being said i DO run Windbrisk Raptor. but maybe it's time it comes out)
The other primer on this forum has a beast-based Mayael build centered around Contested Cliffs. Definitely check it out.
I think you've got a good start on Mayael but if you want to maximize it's efficiency and consistency ... you need to stream line it down a particular path. Hope this helps!
EDH:
Currently Piloting:
Dama, Sage of Stone | Karador, Ghost Chieftan | Sigarda, Host of Herons | Elbrus, the Binding Blade / Withengar Unbound | Grand Arbiter Augustin IV | Genju of the Realm | Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
GSZ: It's kinda just chord of calling, but worst in this deck. Most of my creatures don't have green, or is green, but need more mana to make it work. I've tried it, and it's kinda only meh.
My plan: I guess it's the same plan as every other Mayael deck starting, beats hard and fast
Card selection:
Colossus: I've actually met up with the black player in my play group, and he's changing decks. So, most likely a cut
M.Force: Testing, I like having to deal with small creatures, and this lets me do that. I could see it cut, not at the moment, though.
Spellbreaker: I like the cost of him, and it's most really that bad. Because my lack of tutors, I really can't Mayael my whole deck, and this helps the creatures not die to counters.
Troll: Meh. Personal choice, it's mana light, and can dish out early beats. It's not great, but it's a card I have.
Eldrazi, the non legendary ones: It's big enough to be a threat, and even if I draw them by accident it can still be playable cards.
World at war, Stempede: I know, I know, but having a spell light deck kinda scares me. If people think cuttable, then I'll try it out next time.
MOAR CHEATING:
Elvish piper: tried it, didn't like it. It's prone to damage, and it hit me the wrong way for some reason.
Amulet: gonna get the M12 version, it's so nice they gave me that toy.
Hideaway lands: have them
Artifacts that cheat in: Sure, my cards are better than their cards, and they have more value in them
Call of the wild: Nice, gotta try that
Survival, Fauna: Did I mention I'm a poor student that can't afford all these fancy stuff, I should've said that.
Top deck:
Scroll rack: Too much money
Library: money
Cream of the crop: oh, that's a major hit and miss. On one hand, it does things that are cool, but on the other hand, but I could see it screwing me over somehow, just somehow.
Helping Mayael:
Seedborne, Awakening, etc effects: Good cards, hard to come by
rings: personally like it, but undecided.
I hope these responses are not mood crushing. I know the way I say this sounds bad, but I will check most of these cards out to test.
:symr::symb: I hate your deck(Kaervek the Merciless)
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Kemba, Kostume
Ka...Oh god that's not a good alliteration.Wait, how do I even hide it as a name title?