Gerrard: "But it doesn't do anything!" Hanna: "No-it does nothing."
Deck History
This is my do nothing deck. What happened was a friend of mine built a Karona, False God deck that has very few win conditions and no creatures. It just sits there and builds up defenses and when it gets around to it it finally tries to actually win the game. He calls his deck Politics since it's pretty easy to play politics when your deck doesn't do anything threatening. The rest of the group started calling it a do nothing deck (otherwise known as a pillowfort deck) because the vast majority of the time it just sits there and doesn't do anything. Inspired by his deck I wanted to build the do nothingist do nothing deck that ever did nothing. So I set out to make the deck as defensive as possible without worrying about finishing out the game. Basically turbo fog without the turbo. Since I plan on dragging the game out for a very long time I added in a bunch of ways to avoid taking damage and I also needed lots of disruption to prevent my opponents from winning or any relevant things from happening. The last bit of the deck is some recursion to prevent me from decking since realistically I can probably go through my library at least once before killing anybody. So, my do nothing deck.
As I played the deck I noticed that usually by the time I got my win condition going I could have just continued to control the game until my opponents simply ran out of cards as they would have far less outs than I would have answers. Also the win conditions tended to draw hate my way since they gave me a way to seal up a win quickly. Lastly they weren't always the best at keeping me alive which is a pretty important thing to do. So I gradually started to cut the win conditions. Currently I have none and rely on concession as my go to win condition although Jace the Mind Sculptor ultimates are an option. This reduces the deck's threat level quite a bit. I probably can't win the game by turn 10. I can't untap and win. I have no combos, my biggest and only creature is a Gray Ogre. There's no mass LD. So while the deck might be annoying to play against it doesn't threaten to win the game quickly. It also means that the moment I go from annoying to dangerous can be very difficult to assess and often people will realize too late that I've become a threat.
Is Angus the deck for you?
While Angus is the commander of the deck he's not the main focus or even needed. This is a pillowfort deck that tries to survive until the extreme late game and win because your opponents simply run out of cards.
This may be the deck for you if you
1. like really long games.
2. think win conditions are a waste of deck space.
3. don't care about your commander.
4. enjoy turn after turn of sitting there doing very little.
5. like kicking puppies.
This may not be the deck for you if you
1. think your opponent's enjoyment of the game is important.
2. like to win via combo, the red zone, commander damage, milling, direct damage, life loss, poison counters and/or cards that say "you win the game/your opponent(s) lose the game if XYZ".
3. dislike the card Stasis.
4. think creatures are a good card type.
5. don't have 5+ hours to spare for a game of Magic.
Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain/Impulse - Not very flashy cards but these help you hit land drops early and dig for answers later. Well worth making room for them.
Enlightened Tutor/Mystical Tutor - Our top of the library tutors these both have a wide variety of options to choose from. They can be cast during upkeep if you need the card that turn or you can use them with Top and Scroll Rack to get the card in your hand any time you want. Mystical Tutor can set up Terminus as a nice bonus.
Nature's Claim - This can be a number of things including All is Dust or even a simple Naturalize or Seal of Primordium. I like Nature's Claim because it's cheap, it's an instant and since we don't win via damage has very little drawback. In a pinch it can also be used on your own stuff if you need a little lifegain.
Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares - More cheap spot removal and some of the best in the format. Casting Path to Exile on Angus is one of the better ways to use him.
Tithe - I run this in a land slot. Sucks if I can't cast it I guess but as long as I have a white mana it's close enough.
Constant Mists - Backup to Angus...actually this should be used instead of Angus. There's Crucible, enchantments that let us drop multiple lands per turn and Flagstones of Trokair to give it a little synergy. This can be a real backbreaking card for many decks to deal with.
Trickbind - If I had a signature card in my group this would be it. Trickbind has pulled me out of a great many jams over the years. The main things we're looking to stop with this is graveyard hate, Oblivion Stone and Pernicious Deed but it's a very good card in many situations. The split second isn't always useful but when it is you'll be glad your run this card instead of Stifle (also a fine choice).
Bant Charm - This card does just about everything we could want in a charm. The main use is to tuck commanders but don't feel bad about blowing up an artifact our countering a key spell. Lots of versatility.
Forbid - One of the best counters in the format gets even better here. We've got a lot of card advantage to fuel the buyback and since our deck tends to limit our opponent's outs we often don't need to counter many spells with it making it fairly easy to lock people out of the game.
Krosan Grip - Has the potential to blow up some annoying things that would otherwise get activated in response such as Oblivion Stone and graveyard hate. Not the biggest fan due to the 3 mana cost but it's good enough for now.
Spell Crumple - It's pretty much a toss up between this and Hinder. I feel that I've got adequate tucking without both cards and I gave Spell Crumple the nod because it can prevent decking. Going to the graveyard is generally preferable to going to the bottom of the library for us so I might switch back at some point.
Voidslime - Costing 3 is a bummer but worth the added flexibility of having either Counterspell or Stifle.
Cryptic Command - This does everything you could want a counter to do. If it doesn't you're being too greedy.
Fact or Fiction - Since we have a good bit of recursion we can often get access to all 5 cards. Even without recursion this is a fantastic draw spell.
Faith's Reward - This deck struggles against mass LD. Faith's Reward is good against mass LD. It's also good against Oblivion Stone, Pernicious Deed and All is Dust, other thorns in our side.
Evacuation - Instant speed is really important here. Helps deal with hasty armies and armies that have grown in size since you were last able to cast sorceries.
Force of Will - 1 life is a pretty steep drawback and it 2 for 1s you...up to you if you can handle this.
Nature's Lore/Three Visits - They can fetch dual lands and the lands ETB untapped. Pretty good role players.
Regrowth - There's a number of options for us but I prefer the old trusty Regrowth for it's cheap cost and not exiling itself. Eternal Witness is crap.
Idyllic Tutor - There are a lot of enchantments in the deck, many of which are key cards you'll want access to.
Replenish - This card is pretty broken! It lets you recover from sweepers with ease and it only costs 4. Very important card for the deck.
Rout - I like that Rout let's me use a sweeper reactively instead of proactively. No reason to sweep the board if people aren't beating you down.
Austere Command - Makes up for sorcery speed with flexibility. We aren't going to want to sweep enchantments very often but the other 3 modes can be very useful.
Recurring Insight - Draws lots of cards for 6 mana. Not much more to say. You like cards right?
Terminus - I like this over Hallowed Burial because of the miracle cost which can potentially let you cast it at instant speed. Brainstorm and Scroll Rack can put it back on top of your library and Mystical Tutor can also set it up.
Wargate - I usually cast this for x = 0-3. 0 can ramp land or get Tormod's Crypt and it just gets better from there. This deck doesn't run a lot of expensive permanents so once you get higher than 3 your options are more limited. It helps a lot of have the list memorized if you want to run this card. At least know the main targets at each casting cost.
Burgeoning - This gets you extra land drops. To fuel it you draw cards. It can help get around Arboria and sometimes helps recover from mass LD. Since it requires you to play lands from your hand it doesn't interact with Crucible of Worlds.
Exploration - Does interact with Crucible of Worlds. Not as explosive as Burgeoning but I think it's the better card of the 2.
Mystic Remora - Since Humility and creature control are a big part of our gameplan we are pushing people to cast non-creature spells. It gives our opponents a choice but it's a choice between 2 pretty bad options. I'll usually quit paying the upkeep cost after a few turns, no sense in having lots of cards if you don't have enough mana to cast them.
Telepathy - This is a good card because it gives you near perfect information. Who is the threat, what cards you need to answer, etc. It's also a political tool, you can use it to convince your opponents to attack the guy holding Obliterate and not the guy who's trying to win with Mistveil Plains.
Sacred Ground - Protection against mass land destruction. If you don't play against mass LD you shouldn't need this. It's pretty good against Eldrazi, Smokestack, Deathcloud and pretty much anything your opponents use to put your lands into the graveyard from play. It's also tech against Price of Glory since you can go infinite when it's not your turn.
Sterling Grove - A tutor and protection for our permanents, pretty much the ideal card for what we're trying to do. With Privileged Position it gives all your permanents shroud.
Holistic Wisdom - Oh noes! It exiles your cards! Worry not, the benefits are well worth it. This is more of an engine card than a pure recursion card since you'll often want to cast the same spell over and over with it. It can turn your counterspells into Forbids and make your draw spells very powerful since you can pitch a card you drew and repeat. Recurring Insight is very good for this. Regrowth let's any sorcery return any card, tutors become reusable turn after turn and if you need to you can sweep the board every turn. It turns your graveyard into your hand, that's a good thing.
Karmic Justice - Protection vs. sweepers. Our opponents will want to sweep our enchantments at some point, this makes that a very painful decision for them as it triggers for every permanent destroyed, even if it gets destroyed itself. And since they cast a sweeper to trigger it they probably don't have much left to blow up other than land. Oh well, guess you have to mana screw them.:rolleyes:
Rhystic Study - Quite a bit different than Mystic Remora since this card's purpose is more to slow the game down instead of provide you with card advantage. Forcing opponents to pay extra for all their spells can really set them back and it can draw you cards when people get desperate or need to dig for an out.
Solitary Confinement - This offers great protection but requires card draw to fuel it.
Future Sight - I don't like how it reveals your top card but it's a potent engine.
Mirari's Wake - Having twice as much mana is pretty good. Anthem doesn't help much. I guess it makes Angus a 3/3.
Privileged Position - This is a very important card to protect enchantments. One of the main lock pieces.
Tormod's Crypt - This is an easy choice for me. Costs 0, can be tutored for with Tolaria West, which can be tutored for with Expedition Map if necessary. Recurs with Academy Ruins to cripple graveyard strategies. This is a very important card if you play against graveyard strategies a lot.
Elixir of Immortality - Gives a little lifegain and helps protect the graveyard. I like it more than Timespiral because it can function at instant speed and it doesn't exile itself. Rather have a Timetwister though.
Scroll Rack - Combined with shuffle effects and card draw Scroll Rack can really help you dig.
Crucible of Worlds - Helps against mass LD and is useful with fetchlands and Strip Mine.
Oblivion Stone - Can be recurred with Academy Ruins every turn if needed. Privileged Position can give it shroud so you don't have to worry about it getting blown up or Krosan Grip'd.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Not a big fan of planeswalkers in Commander but Jace definitely pulls his weight. He offers a nice mix of abilities and gives a way to actually kill people though this takes awhile.
1. 3 cards in library - Jace Beleren, Lonely Sandbar and 1 irrelevant card (I have Sensei's Divining Top in play).
2. 4 lands in play, 1 is a blue source.
3. Jace the Mind Sculptor and a Trickbind in hand with mana up for Trickbind and other irrelevant cards.
4. 4 opponents remaining, Karona is locked under Recycle with no library but a board position similar to mine and the Uril player was killed by the Kagemaro player at some point. All except me and Karona have about 20-25 cards in their library. I've also Tormod's Crypt'd multiple people using Academy Ruins so most players have about half their library rfg.
5. I am completely fortified for now but cannot realistically win.
Seeing that I have no hope of winning this game I decide to at least try for second or third place figuring I will be the most difficult person to kill so I use the only out I have and activate Lethal Vapors 200 consecutive times skipping my next 200 turns to avoid decking. The game continues and the Savra deck goes for the kill dredging through the remainder of their deck with Life from the Loam, Worm Harvest, Phyrexian Altar and Cycling lands and building up a large amount of mana. His plan is to use Pernicious Deed, the last card in his deck that can deal with Humility, drop Eternal Witness and get back his Deathcloud which could kill everyone but him since he is at the highest life. I have skipped about 5 turns straight at this point but I still have the backbreaking Trickbind to stop the Deed. The Savra player ends up having no other outs and eventually decks. The Child of Alara player has been ravaged by land destruction and between hand/graveyard/library/permanents in play is not able to produce 2 of his colors and therefore has no remaining outs and scoops. The monoblack player is the only one with relevant turns remaining but is hilariously not able to find an out to his Phyrexian Arena in time and ends up dying to it. I skip my remaining 190 turns or so, top for my Lonely Sandbar which gives me 2 blue sources, and next turn drop Jace Beleren and force the guy locked under Recycle to draw a card and deck.
Change Log
5/20
-Seaside Citadel
-Meishin, the Mind Cage
+Terrain Generator
+Arboria
12/11
-Platinum Angel
-Mystifying Maze
+Crucible of Worlds
+Temple Garden
12/22
-Righteous Aura
-Gaea's Blessing
+Rings of Brighthearth
+Merchant Scroll
2/1
-Zur's Wierding
-Pulse of the Fields
+Leyline of Anticipation
+Praetor's Counsel
3/24
+Path to Exile
+Sacred Ground
+Mindlock Orb
+Aven Mindcensor
+Elixer of Immortality
+Glacial Chasm
+Nomad Stadium
+Life from the Loam
+3 basics
-Spin Into Myth
-Rings of Brighthearth
-Invulnerability
-Story Circle
-Peacekeeper
-Beacon of Immortality
-Capsize
-Terrain Generator
-Prahv, Spires of Order
-Vesuva
-Stirring Wildwood
3/26
-Merchant Scroll
+Exploration
4/5
-Iona, Shield of Emeria
+Consecrated Sphinx
4/9
-Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
-Snow-Covered Plains
+Serra's Sanctum
+Savannah
9/13
-Consecrated Sphinx
-Aven Mindscensor
-Life from the Loam
+Brainstorm
+Scroll Rack
+Recurring Insight
in this deck you probably want creatures that provide some good defense (not just blockers), so abilities are a must. Blazing Archon and Archon of Justice are both great defensive creatures, as is Pristine Angel, which seems to fit your "protection" theme you have going on. Plus the Archons can both beat if you need attackers (plus evasion - flying is always good; I never attack with the angel because I want to keep her untapped, unless I can give her vigilence with Akroma's Memorial or something like it). Magus of the Moat is a budget version of Moatand can be helpful lockdown as well.
with all of those enchantments, why not run Replenish? Also, Runed Halo seems nice here too.
Dawn Charm is pretty good too, though usually only in limited circumstances. still, something to consider.
you may find you want more sweepers as well, especially being relatively light on creatures. Myojin of Cleansing Fire Fire might fit your bill too.
just some thoughts... I play lots of white in EDH, but never green or blue so that's why these suggestions are all white. interesting deck, I think you could use a few more wincons (IE creatures), but it makes sense to have creatures that do more tha just attack.
I like StP more than PtE so I'll try that for now. Oblivion Ring is too easy to deal with for my tastes but something to keep in mind with all the enchantment tutors I've got.
in this deck you probably want creatures that provide some good defense (not just blockers), so abilities are a must. Blazing Archon and Archon of Justice are both great defensive creatures, as is Pristine Angel, which seems to fit your "protection" theme you have going on. Plus the Archons can both beat if you need attackers (plus evasion - flying is always good; I never attack with the angel because I want to keep her untapped, unless I can give her vigilence with Akroma's Memorial or something like it). Magus of the Moat is a budget version of Moatand can be helpful lockdown as well.
I'd rather just try and hose creatures than play more so I've kept them to a bare minimum. My mid game will probably be trying to tutor for and protect Humility. Wish I had the money for a Moat though...
with all of those enchantments, why not run Replenish? Also, Runed Halo seems nice here too.
Oops, had it listed as an instant. Wishful thinking I guess. I'd rather run Runed Halo in a deck that had more bounce so I could change targets if I needed to. Good general hoser though.
Dawn Charm is pretty good too, though usually only in limited circumstances. still, something to consider.
I thought about it but in the end I chose Constant Mists. If it turns out I am not using the buyback much I will swap it out for this.
you may find you want more sweepers as well, especially being relatively light on creatures. Myojin of Cleansing Fire Fire might fit your bill too.
You're probably right about the sweepers, I'll try Planar Collapse because it is an enchantment and easy to tutor up.
just some thoughts... I play lots of white in EDH, but never green or blue so that's why these suggestions are all white. interesting deck, I think you could use a few more wincons (IE creatures), but it makes sense to have creatures that do more tha just attack.
I already got some decks that win with creatures so I wanted to try something different. I'll playtest this a bit and see if I need some more creatures. Thanks for the help!
Silklash Spider is one of the best multiplayer creatures ever printed, and would fit in this deck.
Any idea what to take out for him?
Changes:
+Swords to Plowshares
+Planar Collapse
-Ivory Mask
I'll try and make due with Solitary Confinement and Invulnerability to deal with direct damage spells/abilities.
-Wargate
Will probably put this back in once I've tested the deck more. It will be difficult to remember what I have left and all the mana costs until I am more familiar with the deck.
the only reason I really like O-ring is because it's good permanent (not just creature) removal, even if it is just temporary. A decent alternative is Faiths Fetters, and Prison Term is surprisingly good in EDH. anyway, just a few more suggestions
the only reason I really like O-ring is because it's good permanent (not just creature) removal, even if it is just temporary. A decent alternative is Faiths Fetters, and Prison Term is surprisingly good in EDH. anyway, just a few more suggestions
I've got Sterling Grove in over Greater Auramancy as it can double as a tutor. I've found the Sterling Grove/Privileged Position/Karmic Justice package to be efficient enough in my Rhys deck but I'll keep it in mind. I figure I might be able to tutor for Replenish if some of the pieces are destroyed. The newly spoiled Luminarch Acension from Zendikar almost made it on the list but I am trying to devote as few deck slots to win conditions as possible then add more as I need them. Kismet is the type of card that annoys people and causes them to attack you and I want to keep a low profile. Humility does the same thing but what are they going to do, attack me with 1/1 creatures? I've been playing with the same group for a long time and know exactly what types of decks I'll be facing and Oblivion Ring usually won't stay around very long. Thanks for taking an interest in the deck.
People are always stealing my Rectors to fetch out Debtor's Knell. Actually I think my opponents have used my Rector more times than I have. And I don't have any sac outlets.
Dovescape looks pretty cool though but I'd have to put in Guile. Would be a nice little package though.
People are always stealing my Rectors to fetch out Debtor's Knell. Actually I think my opponents have used my Rector more times than I have. And I don't have any sac outlets.
Dovescape looks pretty cool though but I'd have to put in Guile. Would be a nice little package though.
I've had a chance to playtest this deck some more and have done a significant overhaul of it. If there are any solid defensive cards I am missing please point them out.
I'd like to cut Righteous Aura and Gaea's Blessing out of this deck but I don't have any really good ideas for what should replace them. I'd like something similar to Gaea's Blessing that doesn't shuffle all my cards in but does shuffle some of them but it needs to also do a little more than draw a card or be flexible or something. To replace Righteous Aura I want something really defensive that doesn't annoy other players. No Propaganda type cards though or stuff like Aurification that causes me to get hit first. Any ideas?
You're already running Magosi, the Waterveil, so why not combo with Chronomantic Escape as well? The escape is pretty good on it's own for deterring attackers so you can go all out on any given turn. Once it resolves, there's nothing your opponents can do to attack you, unlike killing a Peacekeeper when you really need it or whatever.
Rings of Brighthearth combos with the above mentioned Magosi as well as other cards in the deck.
Life From the Loam compliments Crucible if you need more of this effect.
I don't know what you budget looks like, but Forcefield really helps against general damage. (The Collector's Edition one is like $15 or so if you don't mind using proxies)
That's all I can think of for now. Good luck!
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My apologies, children, for I am afraid I cannot save you all.
You're already running Magosi, the Waterveil, so why not combo with Chronomantic Escape as well? The escape is pretty good on it's own for deterring attackers so you can go all out on any given turn. Once it resolves, there's nothing your opponents can do to attack you, unlike killing a Peacekeeper when you really need it or whatever.
Chronomatic Escape is interesting but I think it costs just a little too much for what it does. Just seems like Moment's Peace would give me a little more control over which turns I can nullify the damage. I'll keep it in mind though.
Rings of Brighthearth combos with the above mentioned Magosi as well as other cards in the deck.
I keep wanting to try this card out in my other decks but I didn't think of it for this one. It seems pretty reasonable so I'll probably try it out. Good suggestion.
Can't use Hanna cause she's a creature and Skull of Orm just costs a bajillion mana for something green can already handle.
Spike Weaver is another way to prevent combat damage, but might be less good because you don't really have creature recursion.
Yeah, creature and I don't have much recursion.
Merchant Scroll is a great tutor you're missing. Also if you don't mind using Portal cards Personal Tutor is fabulous as well.
How could this oversight have happened!? I will correct this immediately. Good catch. Personal Tutor I don't like as much because I don't have the best targets for it. Letting people know I'm going to draw Replenish next turn seems like it would cause me to die horribly.
Humility just handles this role so well. This cards also make people angry.
Life From the Loam compliments Crucible if you need more of this effect.
I just am never too impressed with LftL unless the deck is more designed to abuse it and I HATE the randomness of dredge.
I don't know what you budget looks like, but Forcefield really helps against general damage. (The Collector's Edition one is like $15 or so if you don't mind using proxies)
My group doesn't allow proxies so I'd need the real deal. It's more than I am willing to spend on a single card but if I can manage to pick one up in a trade it will find a home here for sure.
That's all I can think of for now. Good luck!
Thanks for taking the time to look through the list and respond! This is a pretty unusual deck compared to most decks here so I always have a really hard time tweaking it and getting ideas.
Not really what I was going for but I scoured Gatherer and couldn't find what I was looking for so it probably doesn't exist. The cards I'm adding should be just good all around cards so we'll see how they play out.
Chronomatic Escape is interesting but I think it costs just a little too much for what it does. Just seems like Moment's Peace would give me a little more control over which turns I can nullify the damage. I'll keep it in mind though.
Moment's Peace is a good card, but I recommended Chronomatic Escape specifically because it combos with Magosi. (You skip your turn, but creatures won't be able to attack you until you actually get another turn) I'm sure you got the synergy but I feel like it is my duty as the recomendee (Is that even a word...?) to clarify.
Moment's Peace is a good card, but I recommended Chronomatic Escape specifically because it combos with Magosi. (You skip your turn, but creatures won't be able to attack you until you actually get another turn) I'm sure you got the synergy but I feel like it is my duty as the recomendee (Is that even a word...?) to clarify.
I understand the interaction but I just like things that don't let me be attacked at all instead of just sometimes. Maybe I should make this an all creatureless deck but for now I still like Peacekeeper enough to keep him in. It's on my short list of cards to try out.
I really like these cards and they do have synergies with my deck but my curve is also pretty low and about 2/5 of my spells are already instant speed and many of the other cards don't benefit a whole lot. With Arboria I'm not really trying to commit more resources to the board because it protects me pretty well.
I made a pretty big update to this deck after playtesting it a bunch. Cut some weaker cards for others that will hopefully perform well. I'd really like to get Chronomantic Escape on here but I need a little help identifying some of the weaker links I could cut for it. Also I really need to have at least 2 creatures since there is a deck that runs Telemin Performance in my group but I'm not sure if I chose the right one to replace Peacekeeper. Update is as follows:
I made a pretty big update to this deck after playtesting it a bunch. Cut some weaker cards for others that will hopefully perform well. I'd really like to get Chronomantic Escape on here but I need a little help identifying some of the weaker links I could cut for it. Also I really need to have at least 2 creatures since there is a deck that runs Telemin Performance in my group but I'm not sure if I chose the right one to replace Peacekeeper. Update is as follows:
I think I'll get more protection/lifegain than damage from Nomad Stadium and Glacial Chasm so I'm not too worried about it. Beacon of Immortality was really inconsistent, when I got really low it was bad, when I was around 40 it was unnecessary and I never cast it multiple times in a game. Story Circle was too white intensive I think, Prahv costs too much mana and I don't run anything very exciting to copy with Vesuva which was my thought process for removing those cards and I would like to increase the basic land count and those seemed like the least important non-basics. I believe I have 8 search effects with some, like Krosan Verge, not being dead with Mindlock Orb out. This is my first time playing with the card so I'll have to see how it works out.
Really like the deck, I am playing it but curious what you would substitute out for the Moat and the Tabernacle if you had them.
These are cards I currently consider debateable:
Mistveil Plains - while it's tutorable with Expedition Map, Wargate, Tolaria and Flagstones, there are only 7 white permanents (Angus being one of them) in the deck - it's hard to use, but it does serve to put instants and sorceries back into your deck. Maybe if I add Moat and Porphyry Nodes (see below)
Forbid - I know you have extra cards often, but have you considered Spell Burst in this slot? I guess the more I think about it, the better Forbid becomes.
Ponder - while seemingly outstanding lacks synergy with Arboria, my initial Impulse was to suggest Impulse, but it can be used with Arboria, my alternative is not hugely better but does allow a bit more filtering - See Beyond?
3 Green Graveyard return effects seem too much. Regrowth is fantastic, Praetor's Council seems pricey, but can be a blowout if it gets used in the right situation and Holistic Wisdom is my least favorite - maybe Creeping Renaissance, the problem being that it doesn't return instants or sorceries like Wisdom and Council. If Renaissance returned a card type rather then a permanent type, then I would slam it in an instant.
Life from the Loam - maybe you don't have enough fetchlands (currently 1), land sac effects - Mists and Chasm, but if you added you could add/upgrade a few of those - but it does seem to be a powerful card for returning things like Chasm or Ruins. I see your comments about the randomness of Dredge so maybe not.
Porphyry Nodes, seems like with Humility this could be a turn after turn Terminate. Again, another white permanent, low casting cost and easily tutorable in a a variety of ways. The Nodes has the downside of eventually getting Angus, but that can be worked around.
Again, love the deck idea - thank you in advance for any commentary.
Mistveil Plains - I agree it's not worth a slot. This decklist isn't quite up to date but I believe I cut this card already.
Telepathy - Here's a post I made about this card in my Wydwen thread (I have to defend this card a lot :P)
Telepathy I can definitely defend, this is the ultimate politics card for this type of deck. I can use and time my counterspells and tricks perfectly since I know exactly what everyone is holding and it is extremely difficult for other people to win when I have Telepathy in play. Everyone else can see when someone is starting to build up a dominant position so the table can just gang up on them. My board position is mostly about what I have in my hand so this deck can come off as pretty non-threatening. Telepathy also isn't something people want to waste spot removal on, by that point everyone has already seen what everyone else has so it is already too late to keep secrets. They tend to just moan and groan when I cast it and hope an Oblivion Stone gets blown up soon so they can be rid of it. I was skeptical when I put it in but it has proven to be among the best cards in this deck. Always happy to have it and my opponents always hate to see it.
Telepathy is good in this deck for slightly different reasons. The main one is that this deck simply doesn't threaten to suddenly win a game so it's generally safe for my opponents to assume that I'm just holding a bunch of defensive cards. They can however see that their other opponents are holding threatening cards that are actually attempting to win them the game.
It's also great at saving you resources, for example player A attempts to resolve Tooth and Nail with entwine. If you have priority first and are holding a counterspell you can simply pass priority and save your counter if another player is holding one as they will probably counter Tooth and Nail.
Lastly it just makes it very difficult for anyone to win while it's in play. Everyone can see what people are holding so everyone knows if somebody is assembling a combo, slow rolling for an explosive turn, setting up powerful synergies, etc. It's perfectly for slowing the game down to a glacial crawl which is exactly what this deck wants to be doing. This is a card I will likely never cut from the deck.
Stroke of Genius vs. Blue Sun's Zenith - The reason I've opted for Stroke over the seemingly better BSZ is that Stroke is less blue intensive making it easier to hold up mana for counters and the deck has a lot of Regrowth effects making Stroke more accessible to me in the graveyard than BSZ would be in my library as I'm wanting to save tutors for more important things like silver bullets.
Ponder/Preordain/Brainstorm/Impulse - These cards all serve a similar function in that they let me reduce the amount of redundancy I'm running, help smooth my opening hands and dig for my more important cards. The effect should be kept as cheap as possible so I prefer 1 mana options.
Regrowths - This deck is among the slowest I've ever seen. What makes Regrowth effects so good is your goal is to get to the super late game. At this point your graveyard is probably very full making Regrowth effects actually superior to tutors.
Praetor's Counsel - I've cut this for Creeping Renaissance in all the decks I played it in. My playtesting so far has shown Renaissance to be the superior card. Not returning Instants and Sorceries is a downer but it has enough upsides that I still like the card.
Holistic Wisdom - I was really skeptical when I added this card in but it's shown itself to be a very powerful card in the late game looping counterspells and preventing people from permanently removing any of my permanents making my wall of defensive very difficult to crack. It can also help draw your deck with enough mana just by casting Recurring Insight or even Fact or Fiction every turn. Lastly a little trick is to start exiling all the land in your graveyard before using something like Elixir of Immortality. It doesn't look that great on paper but I'd recommend giving the card some playtesting time so you can see it in action. It's admittedly pretty poor in the early game.
Land Tax - I should probably be running it. Next time I update I'll find room to put it in. Good suggestion, I had just forgotten about the card.
Life from the Loam - I've bounced this in and out for testing a couple times. The dredge isn't quite as bad as I initially thought however this deck draws and tutors very well so finding Crucible isn't very difficult if I need the effect and Sacred Ground is much better mass ld protection. If you push the deck in more of a lands matter direction it would probably be a good add.
Porphyry Nodes/Drop of Honey - These are interesting cards that I have not tested so I can only speculate on them. They do have a couple of issues that I generally try to avoid when looking at removal. The first is that it takes a full cycle around the table for them to do anything second I have very little control over what gets killed. If you do give Nodes a test run I'd be interesting in hearing how it played out and I'll try to keep my eyes open during games to see if it's something I'd want.
For cuts I think you can safely cut a counterspell and I feel like Voidslime is the weakest simply because of how color intensive it can be, it will probably be my cut for Land Tax though so that might not be very useful for you. For Moat the most similar cut would be Arboria and while it would pain me to lose such a cool and unique card Moat is probably far superior for defense. Maybe lose a card draw spell for the last slot. I haven't cast Recurring Insight much but it's either Insight or Honden of Seeing Winds. Alternatively you could cut a Regrowth spell and I rank them Regrowth > Holistic Wisdom > Creeping Renaisance. This is nothing against Renaissance it's just the other 2 have playtested better for me.
Well I hope you enjoy the deck, I've always thought this was one of my more unique decks even though it doesn't get much feedback. It is my favorite deck to pilot.:)
Any chance this deck is still alive? I love the list and am working on something similar. It still needs some work, I will post it once I have tested it a bit with my group. I feel like optimizing this list is probably very meta dependent, curious to see how it plays out. A few questions:
Do people that know what this deck does target it down, or leave it be because it is not an immediate threat? My goal with this is to make it to the final 2 in most every game, so I want it to be as non-threatening as possible to a full table. Does that work with your group?
Do you ever have trouble with planeswalkers? I guess there are a few answers in here for resolved walkers, do you often counter them on sight? What are your thoughts on Leyline of Sanctity as an additional layer of protection that is especially good against powerful walker ultimates? I would really like that effect in my list, but am having trouble finding a slot.
Besides MLD, what is it that typically break this list? Is it just bad draws or is there something in particular it doesn't deal well with in the long game?
Have you left Isochron Scepter out because it is overly threatening, or because you don't like exiling your spells? Seems like a decent option considering the number of targets, but might require another fog or two to make it worthwhile, undecided.
Thoughts on Tezzeret the Seeker as a second Crucible of Worlds? That card is just too important to this deck not to run a few good tutors for it and tezz is one cheaper to get it into play than fabricate, but obviously can't do it at 3 land. Thoughts?
edit: Also a little worried about running a more budget land base and what it will do to my life total. I don't have the duals so will be relying more on shocks and fethches than you are. How important do you think that extra 5-10 life will be in pulling this off? Should I run a little lifegain to offset this? Should I go even more budget than that to avoid the life loss?
Monastery Siege might be solid for this list, both modes seem good.
Yes deegeebee, I still have this deck, haven't played it in forever but still out there. I need to look at this again and update it/reevaluate it.
Yeah, Monastery Siege caught my eye. The versatility is nice, but I am not sure digging like that is better than any of the dedicated draw options I am running. Since so many of the protection engines in here rely on discarding, sacrificing and not drawing, I don't think dig like this holds up well agains actual draw. It don't think I would cut any of Jace Beleren, Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study, Sylvan Library, Brainstorm, Fact or Fiction, Impulse or Recurring Insight for this. Then again, if you are pitching lands before playing them with Crucible of Worlds, you are in business.
I would definitely like to see an updated list when you get the chance. I will get mine up soon for critique.
Deck History
This is my do nothing deck. What happened was a friend of mine built a Karona, False God deck that has very few win conditions and no creatures. It just sits there and builds up defenses and when it gets around to it it finally tries to actually win the game. He calls his deck Politics since it's pretty easy to play politics when your deck doesn't do anything threatening. The rest of the group started calling it a do nothing deck (otherwise known as a pillowfort deck) because the vast majority of the time it just sits there and doesn't do anything. Inspired by his deck I wanted to build the do nothingist do nothing deck that ever did nothing. So I set out to make the deck as defensive as possible without worrying about finishing out the game. Basically turbo fog without the turbo. Since I plan on dragging the game out for a very long time I added in a bunch of ways to avoid taking damage and I also needed lots of disruption to prevent my opponents from winning or any relevant things from happening. The last bit of the deck is some recursion to prevent me from decking since realistically I can probably go through my library at least once before killing anybody. So, my do nothing deck.
As I played the deck I noticed that usually by the time I got my win condition going I could have just continued to control the game until my opponents simply ran out of cards as they would have far less outs than I would have answers. Also the win conditions tended to draw hate my way since they gave me a way to seal up a win quickly. Lastly they weren't always the best at keeping me alive which is a pretty important thing to do. So I gradually started to cut the win conditions. Currently I have none and rely on concession as my go to win condition although Jace the Mind Sculptor ultimates are an option. This reduces the deck's threat level quite a bit. I probably can't win the game by turn 10. I can't untap and win. I have no combos, my biggest and only creature is a Gray Ogre. There's no mass LD. So while the deck might be annoying to play against it doesn't threaten to win the game quickly. It also means that the moment I go from annoying to dangerous can be very difficult to assess and often people will realize too late that I've become a threat.
Is Angus the deck for you?
While Angus is the commander of the deck he's not the main focus or even needed. This is a pillowfort deck that tries to survive until the extreme late game and win because your opponents simply run out of cards.
This may be the deck for you if you
1. like really long games.
2. think win conditions are a waste of deck space.
3. don't care about your commander.
4. enjoy turn after turn of sitting there doing very little.
5. like kicking puppies.
This may not be the deck for you if you
1. think your opponent's enjoyment of the game is important.
2. like to win via combo, the red zone, commander damage, milling, direct damage, life loss, poison counters and/or cards that say "you win the game/your opponent(s) lose the game if XYZ".
3. dislike the card Stasis.
4. think creatures are a good card type.
5. don't have 5+ hours to spare for a game of Magic.
Deck List
1 Angus Mackenzie
Instants
1 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tithe
1 Arcane Denial
1 Constant Mists
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Impulse
1 Mana Drain
1 Trickbind
1 Disallow
1 Forbid
1 Teferi's Protection
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Force of Will
1 Dig Through Time
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Sorceries
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visions
1 Nature's Lore
1 Regrowth
1 Three Visits
1 Council's Judgment
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Replenish
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Austere Command
1 Recurring Insight
1 Wargate
1 Burgeoning
1 Exploration
1 Mystic Remora
1 Telepathy
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Sterling Grove
1 Sylvan Library
1 Holistic Wisdom
1 Karmic Justice
1 Rhystic Study
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Humility
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Mystic Barrier
1 Privileged Position
Artifacts
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Expedition Map
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Scroll Rack
1 Thaumatic Compass
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Stone
Planeswalkers
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Win Conditions
1 Mistveil Plains
Land
1 Alchemist's Refuge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Calciform Pools
1 Command Tower
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Kor Haven
1 Krosan Verge
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Savannah
1 Strip Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Tolaria West
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
4 Snow-Covered Plains
6 Snow-Covered Island
3 Snow-Covered Forest
Card Choices
Enlightened Tutor/Mystical Tutor - Our top of the library tutors these both have a wide variety of options to choose from. They can be cast during upkeep if you need the card that turn or you can use them with Top and Scroll Rack to get the card in your hand any time you want. Mystical Tutor can set up Terminus as a nice bonus.
Nature's Claim - This can be a number of things including All is Dust or even a simple Naturalize or Seal of Primordium. I like Nature's Claim because it's cheap, it's an instant and since we don't win via damage has very little drawback. In a pinch it can also be used on your own stuff if you need a little lifegain.
Path to Exile/Swords to Plowshares - More cheap spot removal and some of the best in the format. Casting Path to Exile on Angus is one of the better ways to use him.
Tithe - I run this in a land slot. Sucks if I can't cast it I guess but as long as I have a white mana it's close enough.
Constant Mists - Backup to Angus...actually this should be used instead of Angus. There's Crucible, enchantments that let us drop multiple lands per turn and Flagstones of Trokair to give it a little synergy. This can be a real backbreaking card for many decks to deal with.
Mana Drain - Broken.
Trickbind - If I had a signature card in my group this would be it. Trickbind has pulled me out of a great many jams over the years. The main things we're looking to stop with this is graveyard hate, Oblivion Stone and Pernicious Deed but it's a very good card in many situations. The split second isn't always useful but when it is you'll be glad your run this card instead of Stifle (also a fine choice).
Bant Charm - This card does just about everything we could want in a charm. The main use is to tuck commanders but don't feel bad about blowing up an artifact our countering a key spell. Lots of versatility.
Forbid - One of the best counters in the format gets even better here. We've got a lot of card advantage to fuel the buyback and since our deck tends to limit our opponent's outs we often don't need to counter many spells with it making it fairly easy to lock people out of the game.
Krosan Grip - Has the potential to blow up some annoying things that would otherwise get activated in response such as Oblivion Stone and graveyard hate. Not the biggest fan due to the 3 mana cost but it's good enough for now.
Spell Crumple - It's pretty much a toss up between this and Hinder. I feel that I've got adequate tucking without both cards and I gave Spell Crumple the nod because it can prevent decking. Going to the graveyard is generally preferable to going to the bottom of the library for us so I might switch back at some point.
Voidslime - Costing 3 is a bummer but worth the added flexibility of having either Counterspell or Stifle.
Cryptic Command - This does everything you could want a counter to do. If it doesn't you're being too greedy.
Fact or Fiction - Since we have a good bit of recursion we can often get access to all 5 cards. Even without recursion this is a fantastic draw spell.
Faith's Reward - This deck struggles against mass LD. Faith's Reward is good against mass LD. It's also good against Oblivion Stone, Pernicious Deed and All is Dust, other thorns in our side.
Evacuation - Instant speed is really important here. Helps deal with hasty armies and armies that have grown in size since you were last able to cast sorceries.
Force of Will - 1 life is a pretty steep drawback and it 2 for 1s you...up to you if you can handle this.
Sphinx's Revelation - I could run either Stroke of Genius or Blue Sun's Zenith instead but I prefer the Revelation for the added lifegain. Stroke of Genius can double as a win condition in the late game. I think Blue Sun's Zenith is the worst due to UUU and it going back in the library instead of the graveyard. It's also nice to be able to draw cards with Solitary Confinement in play.
Nature's Lore/Three Visits - They can fetch dual lands and the lands ETB untapped. Pretty good role players.
Regrowth - There's a number of options for us but I prefer the old trusty Regrowth for it's cheap cost and not exiling itself. Eternal Witness is crap.
Idyllic Tutor - There are a lot of enchantments in the deck, many of which are key cards you'll want access to.
Replenish - This card is pretty broken! It lets you recover from sweepers with ease and it only costs 4. Very important card for the deck.
Rout - I like that Rout let's me use a sweeper reactively instead of proactively. No reason to sweep the board if people aren't beating you down.
Austere Command - Makes up for sorcery speed with flexibility. We aren't going to want to sweep enchantments very often but the other 3 modes can be very useful.
Recurring Insight - Draws lots of cards for 6 mana. Not much more to say. You like cards right?
Terminus - I like this over Hallowed Burial because of the miracle cost which can potentially let you cast it at instant speed. Brainstorm and Scroll Rack can put it back on top of your library and Mystical Tutor can also set it up.
Wargate - I usually cast this for x = 0-3. 0 can ramp land or get Tormod's Crypt and it just gets better from there. This deck doesn't run a lot of expensive permanents so once you get higher than 3 your options are more limited. It helps a lot of have the list memorized if you want to run this card. At least know the main targets at each casting cost.
Burgeoning - This gets you extra land drops. To fuel it you draw cards. It can help get around Arboria and sometimes helps recover from mass LD. Since it requires you to play lands from your hand it doesn't interact with Crucible of Worlds.
Exploration - Does interact with Crucible of Worlds. Not as explosive as Burgeoning but I think it's the better card of the 2.
Mystic Remora - Since Humility and creature control are a big part of our gameplan we are pushing people to cast non-creature spells. It gives our opponents a choice but it's a choice between 2 pretty bad options. I'll usually quit paying the upkeep cost after a few turns, no sense in having lots of cards if you don't have enough mana to cast them.
Telepathy - This is a good card because it gives you near perfect information. Who is the threat, what cards you need to answer, etc. It's also a political tool, you can use it to convince your opponents to attack the guy holding Obliterate and not the guy who's trying to win with Mistveil Plains.
Sacred Ground - Protection against mass land destruction. If you don't play against mass LD you shouldn't need this. It's pretty good against Eldrazi, Smokestack, Deathcloud and pretty much anything your opponents use to put your lands into the graveyard from play. It's also tech against Price of Glory since you can go infinite when it's not your turn.
Sterling Grove - A tutor and protection for our permanents, pretty much the ideal card for what we're trying to do. With Privileged Position it gives all your permanents shroud.
Holistic Wisdom - Oh noes! It exiles your cards! Worry not, the benefits are well worth it. This is more of an engine card than a pure recursion card since you'll often want to cast the same spell over and over with it. It can turn your counterspells into Forbids and make your draw spells very powerful since you can pitch a card you drew and repeat. Recurring Insight is very good for this. Regrowth let's any sorcery return any card, tutors become reusable turn after turn and if you need to you can sweep the board every turn. It turns your graveyard into your hand, that's a good thing.
Karmic Justice - Protection vs. sweepers. Our opponents will want to sweep our enchantments at some point, this makes that a very painful decision for them as it triggers for every permanent destroyed, even if it gets destroyed itself. And since they cast a sweeper to trigger it they probably don't have much left to blow up other than land. Oh well, guess you have to mana screw them.:rolleyes:
Rhystic Study - Quite a bit different than Mystic Remora since this card's purpose is more to slow the game down instead of provide you with card advantage. Forcing opponents to pay extra for all their spells can really set them back and it can draw you cards when people get desperate or need to dig for an out.
Solitary Confinement - This offers great protection but requires card draw to fuel it.
Arboria - Creatures can't attack you if you don't do anything which is usually what you want to be doing. To work around Arboria there's Alchemist's Refuge, Burgeoning, Magosi, the Waterveil, Leyline of Anticipation and of course you can still cast instants. It doesn't protect Jace but it protects you pretty well.
Humility - This can shut down creature decks and decks that rely on their commander. Play and protect this card.
Leyline of Anticipation - Giving all your spells flash is great.
Future Sight - I don't like how it reveals your top card but it's a potent engine.
Mirari's Wake - Having twice as much mana is pretty good. Anthem doesn't help much. I guess it makes Angus a 3/3.
Privileged Position - This is a very important card to protect enchantments. One of the main lock pieces.
Tormod's Crypt - This is an easy choice for me. Costs 0, can be tutored for with Tolaria West, which can be tutored for with Expedition Map if necessary. Recurs with Academy Ruins to cripple graveyard strategies. This is a very important card if you play against graveyard strategies a lot.
Elixir of Immortality - Gives a little lifegain and helps protect the graveyard. I like it more than Timespiral because it can function at instant speed and it doesn't exile itself. Rather have a Timetwister though.
Expedition Map - Gets a lot of utility lands.
Scroll Rack - Combined with shuffle effects and card draw Scroll Rack can really help you dig.
Crucible of Worlds - Helps against mass LD and is useful with fetchlands and Strip Mine.
Oblivion Stone - Can be recurred with Academy Ruins every turn if needed. Privileged Position can give it shroud so you don't have to worry about it getting blown up or Krosan Grip'd.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Not a big fan of planeswalkers in Commander but Jace definitely pulls his weight. He offers a nice mix of abilities and gives a way to actually kill people though this takes awhile.
Best Game Ever
The very first game I played with this deck was a 6 man multiplayer game and the following is a recap to the best of my memory with some help from some of the other people in the game. My opponents are Child of Alara (reanimator deck), Uril, the Miststalker, Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Karona, False God (mentioned in Deck History) & Kagemaro, First to Suffer. Notably I lead off turn 1 with a Telepathy that stays in play for almost the entire game, even surviving Warp World.
Over the course of about 5 hours there is a cycled Decree of Annihilation, Warp World, Death Cloud for 10 & a Catastrophe for lands to really drag out the game, in that order. Additionally, creatures remained completely ineffective almost the entire game thanks to such hits as Humility, Meishin, the Mind Cage, Lethal Vapors, constant sweepers, etc. I get hit by a Wit's End at some point after drawing a ton of cards off of Mystic Remora + Rhystic Study and after looking through my deck with a tutor I have no recursion available or any way to realistically win the game. The game continues and I get down to about 3 cards in my library but am locked up pretty tight with Solitary Confinement, Sterling Grove, Privileged Position, Karmic Justice, Humility, Honden of Seeing Winds & Meishin, the Mind Cage (go Replenish!) amongst other things but only have 4 lands in play. My current situation is this:
1. 3 cards in library - Jace Beleren, Lonely Sandbar and 1 irrelevant card (I have Sensei's Divining Top in play).
2. 4 lands in play, 1 is a blue source.
3. Jace the Mind Sculptor and a Trickbind in hand with mana up for Trickbind and other irrelevant cards.
4. 4 opponents remaining, Karona is locked under Recycle with no library but a board position similar to mine and the Uril player was killed by the Kagemaro player at some point. All except me and Karona have about 20-25 cards in their library. I've also Tormod's Crypt'd multiple people using Academy Ruins so most players have about half their library rfg.
5. I am completely fortified for now but cannot realistically win.
Seeing that I have no hope of winning this game I decide to at least try for second or third place figuring I will be the most difficult person to kill so I use the only out I have and activate Lethal Vapors 200 consecutive times skipping my next 200 turns to avoid decking. The game continues and the Savra deck goes for the kill dredging through the remainder of their deck with Life from the Loam, Worm Harvest, Phyrexian Altar and Cycling lands and building up a large amount of mana. His plan is to use Pernicious Deed, the last card in his deck that can deal with Humility, drop Eternal Witness and get back his Deathcloud which could kill everyone but him since he is at the highest life. I have skipped about 5 turns straight at this point but I still have the backbreaking Trickbind to stop the Deed. The Savra player ends up having no other outs and eventually decks. The Child of Alara player has been ravaged by land destruction and between hand/graveyard/library/permanents in play is not able to produce 2 of his colors and therefore has no remaining outs and scoops. The monoblack player is the only one with relevant turns remaining but is hilariously not able to find an out to his Phyrexian Arena in time and ends up dying to it. I skip my remaining 190 turns or so, top for my Lonely Sandbar which gives me 2 blue sources, and next turn drop Jace Beleren and force the guy locked under Recycle to draw a card and deck.
Change Log
5/20
-Seaside Citadel
-Meishin, the Mind Cage
+Terrain Generator
+Arboria
5/22
-Luminarch Ascension
+Burgeoning
6/24
-Zur's Weirding
-Gaea's Blessing
+Righteous Aura
+Expedition Map
7/12
-Realms Uncharted
-Fabricate
-Expedition Map
+Wargate
+Zur's Weirding
+Gaea's Blessing
7/15
-Celestial Collonade
+Mystifying Maze
7/21
-Crucible of Worlds
+Expedition Map
12/11
-Platinum Angel
-Mystifying Maze
+Crucible of Worlds
+Temple Garden
12/22
-Righteous Aura
-Gaea's Blessing
+Rings of Brighthearth
+Merchant Scroll
2/1
-Zur's Wierding
-Pulse of the Fields
+Leyline of Anticipation
+Praetor's Counsel
3/24
+Path to Exile
+Sacred Ground
+Mindlock Orb
+Aven Mindcensor
+Elixer of Immortality
+Glacial Chasm
+Nomad Stadium
+Life from the Loam
+3 basics
-Spin Into Myth
-Rings of Brighthearth
-Invulnerability
-Story Circle
-Peacekeeper
-Beacon of Immortality
-Capsize
-Terrain Generator
-Prahv, Spires of Order
-Vesuva
-Stirring Wildwood
3/26
-Merchant Scroll
+Exploration
4/5
-Iona, Shield of Emeria
+Consecrated Sphinx
4/9
-Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
-Snow-Covered Plains
+Serra's Sanctum
+Savannah
9/13
-Consecrated Sphinx
-Aven Mindscensor
-Life from the Loam
+Brainstorm
+Scroll Rack
+Recurring Insight
9/22
-Jace Beleren
-Time Stop
-Hinder
+Impulse
+Preordain
+Ponder
9/23
-Return to Dust
+Nature's Claim
9/1
-Praetor's Counsel
-Saltcrusted Steppe
+Faith's Reward
+Alchemist's Refuge
11/16/12
-Stroke of Genius
-Mindslaver
-Hallowed Burial
-Nomad Stadium
-Hallowed Fountain
-Temple Garden
-Snow-Covered Forest
+Sphinx's Revelation
+Terminus
+Tithe
+Snow-Covered Plains
+Strip Mine
+Three Visits
+Nature's Lore
6/30/13
-Evacuation
-Arcane Denial
-Honden of Seeing Winds
+Cyclonic Rift
+Mana Drain
+Future Sight
8/9/14
-Path to Exile
-Rout
+Mystic Barrier
+Council's Judgment
8/30/15
1 Hinder
1 Terminus
1 Honden of Seeing Winds
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Sacred Ground
1 Arcane Denial
1 Dig Through Time
1 Crop Rotation
1 Rout
1 Sylvan Library
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
Bench
- Chronomatic Escape
- Energy Field
- Fabricate
- Gaea's Blessing
- Personal Tutor
- Righteous Aura
- Hinder
- Time Stop
- Jace Beleren
- Island Sanctuary
- Return to Dust
WishlistThe Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Moat
Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares are both good cheap spot removal, pretty important for any defensive deck. Oblivion Ring looks good here as well.
in this deck you probably want creatures that provide some good defense (not just blockers), so abilities are a must. Blazing Archon and Archon of Justice are both great defensive creatures, as is Pristine Angel, which seems to fit your "protection" theme you have going on. Plus the Archons can both beat if you need attackers (plus evasion - flying is always good; I never attack with the angel because I want to keep her untapped, unless I can give her vigilence with Akroma's Memorial or something like it). Magus of the Moat is a budget version of Moatand can be helpful lockdown as well.
with all of those enchantments, why not run Replenish? Also, Runed Halo seems nice here too.
Dawn Charm is pretty good too, though usually only in limited circumstances. still, something to consider.
you may find you want more sweepers as well, especially being relatively light on creatures. Myojin of Cleansing Fire Fire might fit your bill too.
just some thoughts... I play lots of white in EDH, but never green or blue so that's why these suggestions are all white. interesting deck, I think you could use a few more wincons (IE creatures), but it makes sense to have creatures that do more tha just attack.
twitter.com/bccarlso
I like StP more than PtE so I'll try that for now. Oblivion Ring is too easy to deal with for my tastes but something to keep in mind with all the enchantment tutors I've got.
I'd rather just try and hose creatures than play more so I've kept them to a bare minimum. My mid game will probably be trying to tutor for and protect Humility. Wish I had the money for a Moat though...
Oops, had it listed as an instant. Wishful thinking I guess. I'd rather run Runed Halo in a deck that had more bounce so I could change targets if I needed to. Good general hoser though.
I thought about it but in the end I chose Constant Mists. If it turns out I am not using the buyback much I will swap it out for this.
You're probably right about the sweepers, I'll try Planar Collapse because it is an enchantment and easy to tutor up.
I already got some decks that win with creatures so I wanted to try something different. I'll playtest this a bit and see if I need some more creatures. Thanks for the help!
Silklash Spider is one of the best multiplayer creatures ever printed, and would fit in this deck.
Any idea what to take out for him?
Changes:
+Swords to Plowshares
+Planar Collapse
-Ivory Mask
I'll try and make due with Solitary Confinement and Invulnerability to deal with direct damage spells/abilities.
-Wargate
Will probably put this back in once I've tested the deck more. It will be difficult to remember what I have left and all the mana costs until I am more familiar with the deck.
Greater Auramancy to protect your enchantments
Sigil of the Empty Throne to get extra benes from those enchantments
Kismet for more lockdown
the only reason I really like O-ring is because it's good permanent (not just creature) removal, even if it is just temporary. A decent alternative is Faiths Fetters, and Prison Term is surprisingly good in EDH. anyway, just a few more suggestions
I've got Sterling Grove in over Greater Auramancy as it can double as a tutor. I've found the Sterling Grove/Privileged Position/Karmic Justice package to be efficient enough in my Rhys deck but I'll keep it in mind. I figure I might be able to tutor for Replenish if some of the pieces are destroyed. The newly spoiled Luminarch Acension from Zendikar almost made it on the list but I am trying to devote as few deck slots to win conditions as possible then add more as I need them. Kismet is the type of card that annoys people and causes them to attack you and I want to keep a low profile. Humility does the same thing but what are they going to do, attack me with 1/1 creatures? I've been playing with the same group for a long time and know exactly what types of decks I'll be facing and Oblivion Ring usually won't stay around very long. Thanks for taking an interest in the deck.
What about Dovescape ?
People are always stealing my Rectors to fetch out Debtor's Knell. Actually I think my opponents have used my Rector more times than I have. And I don't have any sac outlets.
Dovescape looks pretty cool though but I'd have to put in Guile. Would be a nice little package though.
And who would do such an awefull thing!!!
You also missing Maze of Ith
Rings of Brighthearth combos with the above mentioned Magosi as well as other cards in the deck.
Hanna, Ship's Navigator or Skull of Orm can recur lost enchantments. (And combos with Rings)
Spike Weaver is another way to prevent combat damage, but might be less good because you don't really have creature recursion.
Merchant Scroll is a great tutor you're missing. Also if you don't mind using Portal cards Personal Tutor is fabulous as well.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence is another lockdown card to complement Humility. You could also run Damping Matrix or Cursed Totem.
Life From the Loam compliments Crucible if you need more of this effect.
I don't know what you budget looks like, but Forcefield really helps against general damage. (The Collector's Edition one is like $15 or so if you don't mind using proxies)
That's all I can think of for now. Good luck!
Chronomatic Escape is interesting but I think it costs just a little too much for what it does. Just seems like Moment's Peace would give me a little more control over which turns I can nullify the damage. I'll keep it in mind though.
I keep wanting to try this card out in my other decks but I didn't think of it for this one. It seems pretty reasonable so I'll probably try it out. Good suggestion.
Can't use Hanna cause she's a creature and Skull of Orm just costs a bajillion mana for something green can already handle.
Yeah, creature and I don't have much recursion.
How could this oversight have happened!? I will correct this immediately. Good catch. Personal Tutor I don't like as much because I don't have the best targets for it. Letting people know I'm going to draw Replenish next turn seems like it would cause me to die horribly.
Humility just handles this role so well. This cards also make people angry.
I just am never too impressed with LftL unless the deck is more designed to abuse it and I HATE the randomness of dredge.
My group doesn't allow proxies so I'd need the real deal. It's more than I am willing to spend on a single card but if I can manage to pick one up in a trade it will find a home here for sure.
Thanks for taking the time to look through the list and respond! This is a pretty unusual deck compared to most decks here so I always have a really hard time tweaking it and getting ideas.
So here's what I got right now:
-Righteous Aura
-Gaea's Embrace
+Rings of Brighthearth
+Merchant Scroll
Not really what I was going for but I scoured Gatherer and couldn't find what I was looking for so it probably doesn't exist. The cards I'm adding should be just good all around cards so we'll see how they play out.
Why Snow-cover basics?
Moment's Peace is a good card, but I recommended Chronomatic Escape specifically because it combos with Magosi. (You skip your turn, but creatures won't be able to attack you until you actually get another turn) I'm sure you got the synergy but I feel like it is my duty as the recomendee (Is that even a word...?) to clarify.
Not sure if you need it, but Vedalken Orrery (And Leyline of Anticipation) are good when you have a lot of permanents or sorcery spells. Also combos pretty well with Arboria.
Luminarch Ascension fits the theme pretty well and doubles as a win-con.
I really like these cards and they do have synergies with my deck but my curve is also pretty low and about 2/5 of my spells are already instant speed and many of the other cards don't benefit a whole lot. With Arboria I'm not really trying to commit more resources to the board because it protects me pretty well.
Win condition! Blasphemy!
@ilcapo: The Snow Basics are for Mouth of Ronom. They also conveniently help me dodge Wake of Destruction if a regular basic gets hit.
+Path to Exile
+Sacred Ground
+Mindlock Orb
+Aven Mindcensor
+Elixer of Immortality
+Glacial Chasm
+Nomad Stadium
+Life from the Loam
+3 basics
-Spin Into Myth
-Rings of Brighthearth
-Invulnerability
-Story Circle
-Peacekeeper
-Beacon of Immortality
-Capsize
-Terrain Generator
-Prahv, Spires of Order
-Vesuva
-Stirring Wildwood
Mmmm...You are adding two cards that hurt your life total a lot and taking Becon of Inmortality out..!
Also, There are three cards that i'd have the hardest time to cut from this deck:
Story Circle
Vesuva
Prahv
Eveyrthing else seems good...Now, whats your count for fetch effects? Between lands and tutors?
Really like the deck, I am playing it but curious what you would substitute out for the Moat and the Tabernacle if you had them.
These are cards I currently consider debateable:
Mistveil Plains - while it's tutorable with Expedition Map, Wargate, Tolaria and Flagstones, there are only 7 white permanents (Angus being one of them) in the deck - it's hard to use, but it does serve to put instants and sorceries back into your deck. Maybe if I add Moat and Porphyry Nodes (see below)
Telepathy - its Tutorable with Idyllic, Wargate and Enlightented, has interactions with Force of Will, Serra's Sanctum and Replenish, it doesn't seemingly do much.
Card drawing. Stroke of Genius - Isn't Blue Sun's Zenith better? or is the heavy blue commitment? You are also playing Recurring Insight, that is a fat card drawer, but doesn't work with Arboria. At least Rhystic Study is returnable with Replenish.
Forbid - I know you have extra cards often, but have you considered Spell Burst in this slot? I guess the more I think about it, the better Forbid becomes.
Ponder - while seemingly outstanding lacks synergy with Arboria, my initial Impulse was to suggest Impulse, but it can be used with Arboria, my alternative is not hugely better but does allow a bit more filtering - See Beyond?
3 Green Graveyard return effects seem too much. Regrowth is fantastic, Praetor's Council seems pricey, but can be a blowout if it gets used in the right situation and Holistic Wisdom is my least favorite - maybe Creeping Renaissance, the problem being that it doesn't return instants or sorceries like Wisdom and Council. If Renaissance returned a card type rather then a permanent type, then I would slam it in an instant.
Wondering if you have considered these cards:
Land Tax - gives you another white permanent, hugely useful with Scroll Rack and large card advantage machine, especially fun with Burgeoning and Exploration.
Life from the Loam - maybe you don't have enough fetchlands (currently 1), land sac effects - Mists and Chasm, but if you added you could add/upgrade a few of those - but it does seem to be a powerful card for returning things like Chasm or Ruins. I see your comments about the randomness of Dredge so maybe not.
Porphyry Nodes, seems like with Humility this could be a turn after turn Terminate. Again, another white permanent, low casting cost and easily tutorable in a a variety of ways. The Nodes has the downside of eventually getting Angus, but that can be worked around.
Again, love the deck idea - thank you in advance for any commentary.
Telepathy - Here's a post I made about this card in my Wydwen thread (I have to defend this card a lot :P)
Telepathy is good in this deck for slightly different reasons. The main one is that this deck simply doesn't threaten to suddenly win a game so it's generally safe for my opponents to assume that I'm just holding a bunch of defensive cards. They can however see that their other opponents are holding threatening cards that are actually attempting to win them the game.
It's also great at saving you resources, for example player A attempts to resolve Tooth and Nail with entwine. If you have priority first and are holding a counterspell you can simply pass priority and save your counter if another player is holding one as they will probably counter Tooth and Nail.
Lastly it just makes it very difficult for anyone to win while it's in play. Everyone can see what people are holding so everyone knows if somebody is assembling a combo, slow rolling for an explosive turn, setting up powerful synergies, etc. It's perfectly for slowing the game down to a glacial crawl which is exactly what this deck wants to be doing. This is a card I will likely never cut from the deck.
Stroke of Genius vs. Blue Sun's Zenith - The reason I've opted for Stroke over the seemingly better BSZ is that Stroke is less blue intensive making it easier to hold up mana for counters and the deck has a lot of Regrowth effects making Stroke more accessible to me in the graveyard than BSZ would be in my library as I'm wanting to save tutors for more important things like silver bullets.
Arboria - Don't worry about cards having anti synergies with Arboria. It's a secondary protective measure behing Solitary Confinement and it can be played around via Leyline of Anticipation & Magosi the Waterveil.
Ponder/Preordain/Brainstorm/Impulse - These cards all serve a similar function in that they let me reduce the amount of redundancy I'm running, help smooth my opening hands and dig for my more important cards. The effect should be kept as cheap as possible so I prefer 1 mana options.
Regrowths - This deck is among the slowest I've ever seen. What makes Regrowth effects so good is your goal is to get to the super late game. At this point your graveyard is probably very full making Regrowth effects actually superior to tutors.
Praetor's Counsel - I've cut this for Creeping Renaissance in all the decks I played it in. My playtesting so far has shown Renaissance to be the superior card. Not returning Instants and Sorceries is a downer but it has enough upsides that I still like the card.
Holistic Wisdom - I was really skeptical when I added this card in but it's shown itself to be a very powerful card in the late game looping counterspells and preventing people from permanently removing any of my permanents making my wall of defensive very difficult to crack. It can also help draw your deck with enough mana just by casting Recurring Insight or even Fact or Fiction every turn. Lastly a little trick is to start exiling all the land in your graveyard before using something like Elixir of Immortality. It doesn't look that great on paper but I'd recommend giving the card some playtesting time so you can see it in action. It's admittedly pretty poor in the early game.
Land Tax - I should probably be running it. Next time I update I'll find room to put it in. Good suggestion, I had just forgotten about the card.
Life from the Loam - I've bounced this in and out for testing a couple times. The dredge isn't quite as bad as I initially thought however this deck draws and tutors very well so finding Crucible isn't very difficult if I need the effect and Sacred Ground is much better mass ld protection. If you push the deck in more of a lands matter direction it would probably be a good add.
Porphyry Nodes/Drop of Honey - These are interesting cards that I have not tested so I can only speculate on them. They do have a couple of issues that I generally try to avoid when looking at removal. The first is that it takes a full cycle around the table for them to do anything second I have very little control over what gets killed. If you do give Nodes a test run I'd be interesting in hearing how it played out and I'll try to keep my eyes open during games to see if it's something I'd want.
For cuts I think you can safely cut a counterspell and I feel like Voidslime is the weakest simply because of how color intensive it can be, it will probably be my cut for Land Tax though so that might not be very useful for you. For Moat the most similar cut would be Arboria and while it would pain me to lose such a cool and unique card Moat is probably far superior for defense. Maybe lose a card draw spell for the last slot. I haven't cast Recurring Insight much but it's either Insight or Honden of Seeing Winds. Alternatively you could cut a Regrowth spell and I rank them Regrowth > Holistic Wisdom > Creeping Renaisance. This is nothing against Renaissance it's just the other 2 have playtested better for me.
Well I hope you enjoy the deck, I've always thought this was one of my more unique decks even though it doesn't get much feedback. It is my favorite deck to pilot.:)
Do people that know what this deck does target it down, or leave it be because it is not an immediate threat? My goal with this is to make it to the final 2 in most every game, so I want it to be as non-threatening as possible to a full table. Does that work with your group?
Do you ever have trouble with planeswalkers? I guess there are a few answers in here for resolved walkers, do you often counter them on sight? What are your thoughts on Leyline of Sanctity as an additional layer of protection that is especially good against powerful walker ultimates? I would really like that effect in my list, but am having trouble finding a slot.
Besides MLD, what is it that typically break this list? Is it just bad draws or is there something in particular it doesn't deal well with in the long game?
Thoughts on snapcaster mage as the only creature?
Have you left Isochron Scepter out because it is overly threatening, or because you don't like exiling your spells? Seems like a decent option considering the number of targets, but might require another fog or two to make it worthwhile, undecided.
Thoughts on Tezzeret the Seeker as a second Crucible of Worlds? That card is just too important to this deck not to run a few good tutors for it and tezz is one cheaper to get it into play than fabricate, but obviously can't do it at 3 land. Thoughts?
edit: Also a little worried about running a more budget land base and what it will do to my life total. I don't have the duals so will be relying more on shocks and fethches than you are. How important do you think that extra 5-10 life will be in pulling this off? Should I run a little lifegain to offset this? Should I go even more budget than that to avoid the life loss?
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Yes deegeebee, I still have this deck, haven't played it in forever but still out there. I need to look at this again and update it/reevaluate it.
Yeah, Monastery Siege caught my eye. The versatility is nice, but I am not sure digging like that is better than any of the dedicated draw options I am running. Since so many of the protection engines in here rely on discarding, sacrificing and not drawing, I don't think dig like this holds up well agains actual draw. It don't think I would cut any of Jace Beleren, Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study, Sylvan Library, Brainstorm, Fact or Fiction, Impulse or Recurring Insight for this. Then again, if you are pitching lands before playing them with Crucible of Worlds, you are in business.
I would definitely like to see an updated list when you get the chance. I will get mine up soon for critique.
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Finally got my list up here.
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