Quote from brodiemaxaI have a couple questions about your deck. You state that it is competitive, but you run a pretty low amount of acceleration (I know partly due to not having any basics really limits options). However, do you think your deck performs better with all those duals and fetches and no basics, or if you put in say, 2 of each basic + cards like Cultivate, Yavimaya Elder, etc.? I would also suggest Noble Hierarch. Its been my experience when playing against other competitive decks, the player that ramps the fastest wins 75% of the time, which is why I am concerned about your mana acceleration.
Additionally, how would your deck fare if Magus of the Moon/Blood Moon came out? Only answer I see is if Scion is already out, swing as Steel Hellkite, x=3. Besides that, I don't know what you could do.
Expedition Map seems like an auto-include in a deck with key lands such as yours.
Very glad to see you are running Global Ruin, it is nothing less than amazing in 5 color builds (with the right land base of course).
Also might want to consider Boseiju, Who Shelters All for protecting your game-winning Patriarch's Bidding and such.
Overall the deck looks pretty strong though, good job. And good choice in generals!
Quote from rageinuyashaHello Everyone!
So, I'm normally a 1v1 player and my skills at building for multiplayer are questionable at best. I'm trying to build a strong competitive Scion of the Ur-Dragon build for a field of pods of four, and any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Quote from rageinuyashaHey! Blood Moon is not seen in my Meta thankfully, so I doubt that'd be an issue. Plus, whoever played it would be gunned for immediately as most decks are tri-color plus.
Quote from Shambling StriderHey Rageinuyasha, have you checked out the Scion of the Ur-Dragon list in the 1v1 forums?
The link is right here:
I've been playing Scion for a while with the Hermit Druid kill, and it can be very strong. It's a very different deck than what you've posted here, but it has a ton of "I Win" hands that can't be ignored.
If your opponents are running lots of countermagic, it can be very bothersome however and I wouldn't recommend it based on your meta, especially in a multiplayer environment.
Which leads me to my next question...
What decks specifically are in your meta, and how competitive are they? You mentioned that a lot of decks are tri-colored -- a lot of tri colored generals have very different approaches to the game (I mean, look at all the different ways you can play Sharuum, for instance).
Scion can take a bunch of different routes (obviously, as it's a 5 color general), although it might help us a bit more if we get more information (be detailed please!) on what you're running up against.
Quote from destinytriggerNonbasic accel: There ain't much of it. Accel you might consider that you aren't running is Wood Elves, Mwonvuli Acid-Moss, Hunting Wilds, Spoils of Victory and... Three Visits
Quote from rageinuyashaAs an aside to someone who I might play with on a regular basis....Piss off for the three visits comment
That said, I'm digging the Mwonvoli Acid Moss , Always love an early reap and sow.
Also, I think my first two cuts are going to be the ultimatums. Having the correct colors is often difficult and unless I plan ahead of time frankly annoying. Anyone else have any ideas for huge spells that could take their place, or just better cards? My current thoughts are Sword of Body and Mind and Hellkite Charger for infinite attack steps.
There's also the Hive Mind / Pacts way to go, but that seems to janky.
Edit: Just got a three visits just to spite Destinytrigger. Let it be held for the record.
Quote from destinytriggerMeh. Something something draw power for Cruel and something something Austere Command for Violence. Or switch one of those for Acid-Moss/Three Visits.
And how does that spite me!? I told you to get it, and now you got one! Getting one and then not running it, THAT's spiting me
Sword's not a bad idea either. Pacts is. Just name the right sword next time.
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Quote from rageinuyashaIn testing this deck tonight, I found that my mana curve is still way too high. I'm going to be lowering it, as I just got massacred being stuck with a hand with no drops before turn 8, after my phyrexian arena was destroyed, and I proceeded not to hit land. Seems bad.
Edit: The deck underwent a massive change, losing a ton of its dragons and replacing them with cheap removal and draw power. Also, when scanning through cards I managed to see shapesharer, and despite not testing it yet the possibilities are truly horrifying. Attack with Scion, after no blocks are declared morph into shapesharer into blightsteel colossus or whatever other silly thing is on the board, or make scion into a primeval titan or Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre , etc.
Quote from Shambling StriderI wouldn't cut too much of your high-end stuff in multiplayer. It's important that you can always stay the big man at the table. As long as you're not swinging at everyone equally, you won't have everyone hating you. Just pick your most threatening target and attack him relentlessly so the other two people won't screw with you too much. Just make sure you have instant speed "stoppers" to handle everyone else, like Swords to Plowshares, or Dismantling Blow.
Shapesharer is a very sweet card and a great addition.
If you're area is combo, pack spot removal for whatever they're comboing out with, it will help more than counterspells will in your kind of deck. Artifact destruction if they're comboing out with artifacts, enchantment removal if they're using enchantments, etc. I find it's much better to telegraph to your opponents that you're a proactive player and then wreck them with a well placed Swords to Plowshares.
You have a 10 card sideboard too, so perhaps you can add a lot of spot removal there (as color hosers are pretty bad in Scion) and board it in depending on who is at the table.
Quote from aquanesiaSplit second spells seem like useful tools in a combo heavy meta: [CARDkrosan grip][/CARD], sudden shock or even [CARDsudden spoiling][/CARD].
Quote from mast1coreWhat do you cut for Sol ring and Mana Crypt? Colorless lands + Cultivate? How has Ophidian Eye and Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind has been working?
Don't know your budget, but you are running expensive cards so, i recommend adding Diamond Valley (if you can get one) and cutting Dance of the death and Animate Death. Both die to your own Pernicious Deed, Austere Command (or atleast you don't want to destroy at same time your opponents enchantment when you have something animated) and your opponents enchantment removal. I would suggest Exhume or/and Reanimate on their place. Have you already tested Praetor's Grasp much? Has it been good or maybe win-more?
Quote from mast1coreI don't agree with you about Diamond valley but we can both do what we want Couple another question / suggestion:
Have you considered adding Mana Drain? Another card what i have seen in scion list's and running by my self is Scroll Rack. I think you necessary haven't got enought dragons to shuffle away with it? And i would like to hear how there have working for you:
Recurring Insight Myojin of Night's Reach Reiterate Wild Ricochet
I'm wondering is Recurring Insight needed when you are running Fact or Fiction, Phyrexian Arena + Sylvan Library (+ Niv-mizzet if you can count him). Reiterate and Wild Ricochet recuires you to leave mana open to use them, and still they need decent target to do something. I mean could it be better to run some spells in their slots what ALWAYS do something, and won't be depending about other spells?
Gotta put your list together without Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal (don't own either one) and test it out
Quote from mast1coreMore questions have stir. Do you feel that Living Death and Patriarch's Bidding are needed? Just thinking that in "traditional" scion-build there are all creatures almost dragons, and there bidding is better obviously, but have they been enough good still with current creature suite? I see, that Bidding can still be very good when you have scion out, and have used it couple times and then using bidding to animate fattys.
Have you considered adding Victimize? It would be good with Bladewing the Risen, you could sac Scion to bring back Bladewing and another fatty, and bladewing would then return Scion back in play.
And has Sarkhan the Mad being as good as it looks on paper? I guess there is same thing, that with bidding - would be even more better with moaaar dragons
Quote from mast1coreThat's something i haven't even thought of and it seems quite brutal indeed. I guess that draw engine works best with SDT or othertimes when you know what you have lying on top of library otherwise it could too easily kill Sarkhan for one extra card.
I also found that you are not running Enlightened Tutor, but i'm pretty sure it goes on Imperial Seal's place when not having that available because of price tag. Tutor seems to find necessary pieces to combo out with niv and finding other answers.
You don't also run Academy Rector, do you find that it's too vulnerable to RFG effects or you don't run lands or other sacrificing effects to get full value of it?
Quote from mast1coreHello, couple question again has rised. What's your opinion about Conspiracy? You could be able to fetch your other non-dragon fatties with scion when needed. Or do you just prefer hardcast them and be able to use them more than one turn?
Another question about Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Ophidian Eye. Have you ever been that situation that you would want to shuffle your hand to library to kill more players with Niv? You can kill now max 2 players if they are at 40 life and maybe more sometimes. Thinking that if you add Conspiracy you could fetch Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or similar what would allow you to shuffle your graveyard so you could use Niv to kill whole table in single turn. That would recuire some discard outlet that would work but still. That would also help you dodge gravehate if your playgroup plays that? I know that you have alternative win-cons too but that's just suggestion
Quote from mast1core
zer0faults: I'm guessing that reason why Wheel of Sun and Moon isn't in the list is that would make Living Death and Patriarch's bidding pointless.