So I've had this deck planned for some time. Finally got my hands on the one and only Minotaur Monk last night, so I've got her sleeved up today for my regular Sunday afternoon EDH!
There are two angles of approach to Zedruu as I see her: inoffensive group hug (donate things and pray everyone recognizes you as a nice guy and stays off your back) and brutal nastiness (donating things like Transcendence over and over again). I've tried to find a "middle way" between those poles with this deck.
It's pretty damn amazing. These guys are usually 12/12 after my draw step. Soramaro is the best so far because of his evasion, but Kiyomaro is nice since he has vigilance and then sits pretty as a 7/7 after discarding to block.
OK, just got back from a LONG day of EDH, almost 12 hours of games!
The first thing I've decided is that Goblin Welder has to go, all too often he's a dead card. I thought it might be funny to swap artifacts and then weld stuff but in practice it never could happen. He's going to be replaced by Dismantling Blow, which provides two things the deck needs more of - artifact and enchantment removal, and draw.
The second thing I've discovered: WOW, can this deck defend! Zedruu is your general if you enjoy "Fortress Magic". Expect the game to go long because she's light on win-cons, but you can always win out of nowhere with Insurrection, Brand, etc. Or just steal THEIR win-cons. Until then though, you can become nigh-unkillable with this deck.
I'm very glad I decided to run both Mazes, though the deck feels a bit land-light on many of its draws. If you're wondering why no Land Tax, look no further than Mindlock + Stranglehold. I've been wanting to combo these cards since Stranglehold was spoiled, and this is the deck for it! (in fact, Aven Mindcensor only narrowly missed the cut for the deck.) The singleton Panorama is probably going out for a Cascade Bluffs or Shivan Reef as soon as I can trade for one. You'd be surprised how utterly a "cannot search libraries" effect will hose out many decks. Especially mono-green ramp decks, which are VERY strong against Zedruu - stopping their overwhelming mana power is very crucial.
But the double Maze, to return to my topic, is a lifesaver. The deck has enough lifegain that with the maze effects, oblation, etc., I have little chance of losing to general damage out of nowhere. It requires will and effort on my opponent's part to put me in a position where I can lose to general damage.
That leaves mass token attack, which I have *many* answers to. Naturally if I start giving away tokens, I don't want them coming home to roost. It seems typically that when faced with the prospect of paying 2 to send them at me or swinging for free at someone else, well, as long as I'm not the prohibitive leader, they usually go elsewhere. Rise of the Hobs has been an all-star so far, I can donate the goblins if I want and I can definitely donate the enchantment itself, and if they don't have red or white it's useless to them. In one game I kept Vensering it to replay more tokens, since instead of a kicker, Rise of the Hobs has an enters-the-battlefield optional cost trigger.
At first I felt the deck was a bit wrath-light but now I feel it's very well balanced. The Austere is a wrath that I can focus on tokens or not as I choose, depending on what I've donated. The Myojin is a wrath I can then donate after I use it and I can just block it with tokens or whatever if it comes my way. Most people just take it and use it as a wall post-wrath to defend against speedy general decks like Skullbriar. Evacuation is essentially a wrath in that it saves my life and slows the game down massively, while resetting many of my tricks and letting me redonate cards to perhaps more deserving recipients. I considered running Kederekt Leviathan and he's still on the shortlist, just don't know what to cut for him. His mass-bounce is a great way to deal with problems of enemies who've assembled "defense in depth" (you know, things like Privileged Position + Greater Auramancy + Akroma's Memorial + Asceticism + guys = unstoppable vs. point removals). Bouncing all these toys could give me the window I need to disrupt them as the enemy tries to replay them. What say my readers? Does the Leviathan make the cut?
Some individual card explanations, for the curious:
Cauldron of Souls: creatures that persist return to the battlefield under their owner's control. Nuff said?
Crystal Shard: The insanity this card can produce is phenomenal. Not only does it tempo-screw all your opponents (esp. whoever's to your immediate right) by forcing them to leave mana up to prevent you from bouncing their most expensive thing, it also combos with every EtB trigger card in the deck (O-Ring trick anyone? 4-cost draw-2 with Mulldrifter?), and it lets you take back your donated stuff to redonate to new targets or reset upkeep costs. The combo with Illusions of Grandeur alone guarantees the Shard its pride of place as MVP in this deck.
Howling Mine, Meekstone, Smoke, Lightmine Field: cards that provide an overall effect that I want, but don't care who controls them. So I donate them and they're still effective, plus I draw more and gain more life. Lightmine in particular is hilariously good vs. tokens, preventing even small pokes (unlike Propaganda), and unlike my previous fave token smasher, Magus of the Tabernacle, it doesn't let them sac my donations. (Well, it does - but they have to ALSO swing with other guys, and lose them too.) Plus I had this foil Lightmine Field sitting around...
Orrery / Blueline: these are pretty standard as one-ofs in my EDH decks, but two in this deck is crucial. You want to be Donating on end step, and typically you want to make the donation card on end step and immediately donate it as well, right before you untap. This gives your opponents the smallest window to *use* the donated cards in, and the smallest window in which to disrupt your plans. It also lets you remain flexible about what to donate and when. Time and time again my butt was saved by being able to cast my spells with flash. EDIT: an added note, just remembered. When a creature changes controllership, it's removed from combat. So flashing blockers and then donating them before damage dealing is a great way to deal with non-trampling attackers!
Primordial Ooze: This card has languished in my box since I picked up about 20 from opening Chronicles packs in the day. Sixteen freaking years I have owned copies of this card. I have never put it in a deck. No one I know or have met has ever put one in a deck. It just. Sucks. So, here, have one!! Especially after Meekstone is out. Notice that it's not an upkeep that sacs when you fail to pay, this is more along the lines of Lord of the Pit. I give this to whichever opponent also has lifegain, to keep them from gaining life at a rate similar to mine. That way when Pyrohemia comes along I can burn them out without killing myself.
Nin, the Pain Artist: At first I was very dubious. She has summoning sickness and is very flimsy. But if you untap with her, it's quite worth it. You can draw a sickening number of cards off her. Obviously, you wait until the last opponent's end step. That way if they try to kill, steal, or exile her, just have her blow her own brains out for cards. "I have ways of making me talk!" Working on finding a Stuffy Doll to go with her.
Roil Elemental: woops, shouldn't have given you that guy. Gimme that back. OR: Gimme that. *turn to other opponent* here, you take it.
Phyrexian Metamorph: OK, this is a new strict rule. If your general has a blue mana symbol in their color identity and this card is not in your deck, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Kor Sanctifiers: ahh, the things decks without green must stoop to. :*( Where are you, Acidic Slime, my love?
Warp World, Mnemonic Wall: proving that this deck also harbors a secret combo. I warped 3x in one turn one game, basically using WW as a sorcery with Annihilator 20ish on all opponents. Mnemo wall also tag teams nicely with Venser to regrow Master Warcrafts and Legerdemains, providing endless tricks.
Taniwha: if I cast this, it is only to donate it. And it is only donated to someone who, for instance, nuked three of my lands with a Terastodon and then O-Stoned. That sort of rough handling deserves the Phasing Yosei. Another example of a brutality donation is Pyro Swath, which I donate to counterspell-heavy decks. These cards are what is called, in politics, "throwing an elbow". The point being that once you prove you're willing to throw an elbow when it's called for, you'll never have to do it again. The deck needs a few flashy, terrifying "revenge" plays to scare people into not messing with you. Just *showing* a player Taniwha can sometimes encourage more... loyalty.
Molten Firebird: I'm running this over Ivory Gargoyle (the original, of which Firebird is the color-shifted reprint) because red is a rarer color than white among EDH decks, so it's more likely that one of my opponents will be unable to activate the exile ability. Donate it, kill it with Pyrohemia, get it back, and they skip their next draw. Soft lock anyone? Not effective until the game is down to one opponent, do this with multiple opponents left and they'll gang up on you out of pity for your victim.
Chromeshell Crab: I don't own a Gilded Drake. Working on it.
Vedalken Plotter: I wanted to find room for Political Trickery to have two of these effects. Finally had to cut PT, but it's high on the waiting list. Swapping lands is very effective, especially when they're basics as there's little targeted basic removal in the format, and few would bother to do so. So it basically guarantees a card for Zedruu every turn from then on. And then Plotter can be bounced or Vensered!
Pyrohemia: token suppression that doubles as a draw mechanic when Swans are online. Yes, please.
Puca's Mischief: Probably second only to shard for nuttiness. The two in combination are a staggeringly dangerous and flexible force, leading to many permanently stolen... well, permanents! Plus the card exemplifies the flavor of Zedruu at this stage of the game: mischievous tricks. The art on Insurrection is a better clue to what endgame looks like.
Delaying Shield: I was thrilled to discover this card in a bulk box. I think I fell in love with Odyssey all over again just because of it. The abusiveness of this spell beggars description. One can use it solely to prevent some damage, or Shard it to prevent all damage, but that is for those without the vision to see its true power. Not only does it make you immune to general damage - the only true vulnerability of a lifegain deck - but it lets you threaten horrific retribution for any attempted alpha strike. "If you send that 20-power attack at me, I'll give you the shield. And you don't even have white mana. Oh, attacking him instead? Thought so."
Thought Lash: I need help with this spell. It's nasty enough as-is: donate to give opponent a factorial mill-to-exile trigger on upkeep that they can't get out of by choosing not to pay. But I've read posts by some who believe Thoughtlash contains an even more vicious possibility. Here is what I have been told, and opinions seem conflicted on whether this works: Pass to your own upkeep while controlling the Lash and Zedruu. Put the age counter on, then choose NOT to pay the upkeep. Put the "exile my library" punishment trigger on the stack, and without letting that resolve, donate the cursed thing. According to some, the unlucky winner of this booby prize will be the one who exiles their library. According to others, I would just wind up exiling my own library while everyone points and laughs. I need to know if this works or not. I will probably pull TL if it *does* work, because I wouldn't feel comfortable running such a harsh "I win" combo. (It's the same reason I'm not running Transcendence.)
Only running the blue vow because IMO the red and white ones suck. They don't grant evasion! P.S. Vow of Malice is strictly the best of them, for this reason: what precisely can block an Eldrazi or Blightsteel Colossus with Intimidate? Artifact creatures only, unless a Scuttlemutt gives that Eldrazi a color. So, when Ulamog / BSC / insert your favorite silly colorless post-Emmy-banning win-stick here comes along, Vow of M = your other opponents die screaming. Vow of Flight is merely OK, not great. Might wind up cutting it for a Shackles or Prison Term.
Master Warcraft: It's not perfect in every deck with R/W, but in a deck like this, that wants to be a fortress and then win out of nowhere, this is perfect. Nothing beats dropping Blazing Archon, passing the turn, and instructing opponent A to kill opponent B, and opponent B to stand by meekly and take it. (You don't control where the creatures attack, so make sure there's only one possible way they CAN go, or that you have other angles covered.) It's also a fine fog, denying attack steps.
Oblation, Chaos Warp: Not only are these spectacular removals & tuck effects, they're also great ways to punish someone who tries to use one of your donated toys against you. You remain the owner of the card so YOU get the draw or free permanent. And this deck has a lot of permanents because...
Warp World. Yeah, deck's secretly a Warp World deck. Who knew?
If anyone would like to try my Zedruu list and let me know how it works for them, or post your own card choices and critiques, I'd love to hear them!
Edit: donating thought lash with unpaid upkeep exiles their library, the donate goes off giving it to them, then unpaid upkeep and they are the new controller even though they did not choose to pay. I use it as a deterrence more than griefing, its a good way to end games
Darksteel Plate seems fair, but lacks synergy with the rest of the deck. Asceticism is out of color, Safe Haven seems mana intensive and slow. Lightning Greaves is the equipage of choice, but few people are targeting Mr. Goat, he is just inadvertently dying. Maybe equipment is the way to go, using an equipment search subtheme, I will investigate good donate-able equipment.
I'd prefer the Mindcensor over Mindlock Orb so that both your search-hating effects only affect your opponents, and let you search for things yourself. Wild Research is far too powerful to ignore.
Edit: donating thought lash with unpaid upkeep exiles their library, the donate goes off giving it to them, then unpaid upkeep and they are the new controller even though they did not choose to pay. I use it as a deterrence more than griefing, its a good way to end games
Can you elaborate more on the Thought lash move...?
Not to hijack this thread but I have a question I need clarification on, if I Threaten or Act of Treason a creature then give it away to someone else will the original person lose the creature for good or do they get it back at the EOT, if this works do I get life and draw for the creature off Zedruu? Thanks.
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EDH DECKS:
GBW Ghave - BWR Kaalia - UBG Mineoplasm - URG Riku - GRW Uril - GBRProssh, I need food - BWU Oloro Lock - UGW Derevi Blink - RBU Nekusar, the Wheeler - UBRWGProgenitus - BR Lyzolda - UBGisa & Geralf Zombies - UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest +1 Counters matter - W Lin Sivvi - BWU Sydri Artifact Control - RWU Narset, the Attacker - GRW Mayael, the Cheater - RWUG Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Landfall - GBW Doran, I like Big Butts -UR Mizzix Buyback BWR Edgar and his Vamps
Best way to deal with hate is to 1. Slowroll it and 2. Run counterspells. You need to be reactive so that way they are not in control. If they are still hating you out, design the deck so it doesn't rely on zed. The thing is, zed himself isn't a threat so he shouldn't be hated on nearly as much.
What do you need to know about thought lash? Beginning of your upkeep choose not to pay with the effect on the stack donate it. They now own it, the cost wasn't paid so controller removes their library which is now then.
I know there is not one single card that will address all of these issues, but I need to see a bit more survivability for poor ole Z.
My favorite means to protect Z? Giving her Flash. Most of the things you named are sorcery-speed. I run Orrery + Leyline so that I make her on my last opponent's end step, donate something, untap, get cards, and then Greaves her. They need an instant to shoot her. And I've netted at least one, if not more, cards from her. Then I try to use bounce effects to save her if possible. (Crystal Shard is a wonder for rescuing Z.)
I'd prefer the Mindcensor over Mindlock Orb so that both your search-hating effects only affect your opponents, and let you search for things yourself. Wild Research is far too powerful to ignore.
Umm, I tend to ignore cards that make me discard at random. All too often with Z. I find myself stockpiling things like Insurrection, extra Propagandas, and say Mindlock while I have Stranglehold online, so as to lose fewer permanents when someone disks. And someone *always* disks, this being EDH. Since my hand is usually a Goodstuff Stockpile, I generally don't have many blanks I'm willing to pitch.
The true beauty of Stranglehold in this deck is a hidden factor I recognized some time ago about Mindlock Orb: Preventing search gives the advantage to the blue player. Why? Because blue can just dig for its answers, drawing tons until it finds them. Other colors, when locked out of search effects, are reduced to topdecking and occasionally scrying effects to try to dig. Therefore Mindlock Orb benefits blue mages primarily. Stranglehold obviously advantages blue mages and its caster w.r.t. searching, but disadvantages blue mages other than yourself w.r.t. taking extra turns, another blue specialty. I'd say it's still an overall gain even though extra turns combos VERY nicely with drawing multiple per turn. But then, I also like my opponents to still want to play games of EDH with me, and running a lot of extra-turn effects tends to kill that.
In short, aside from Land Tax and fetchlands, there were practically no search effects I really wanted to include. So Mindlock was a gimme. Stranglehold just provides double the nasty.
Can you elaborate more on the Thought lash move...?
Here's how it is said to work (Still not sure if I believe that this is legit):
You cast your Thought Lash. Rather than donating it, you let it go back to your own turn. (You might need to flash it in with Orrery/Leyline or else smart opponents will blow it up on sight.) You put the cumulative upkeep trigger on the stack, then resolve it (no Donate yet). As you resolve the cumu upk trigger you add an age counter, then choose whether to pay the mill-to-exile cost. Choose not to. This triggers the "exile my library" effect. The cumu upk trigger has now resolved fully. The stack clears and state based is checked. Exile-my-library is put on the stack, "my" being "controller of TL". With this on the stack, donate the TL with Zedruu. Donate resolves. Finally, Exile-my-library resolves, and mills out whoever currently controls the TL.
My only concern is whether the exile-my-library effect will hit the current controller of TL, or the person who controlled the TL when the ability triggered.
Not to mention Whispersilk Cloak. Unlike in other EDH decks no one's going to hateswing you to death for Cloaking Zedruu, as she's obviously not a potential source of general-damage victory. It's more expensive is all.
M12 has an upgraded Greaves coming out that should *definitely* be first pick. Second pick is Greaves, and third pick is Crystal Shard. (Who needs shroud when you can just rescue her?)
Clout is nice if you can get it attached. Remember that it's sorcery speed and it's an aura, not an equip. You lose it off the first wrath, unlike Greaves.
Have you considered Totem Armors? Hyena Umbra is a very cheap (1 CMC) way to prevent destruction. Can't stop bounce/exile/tuck though.
Also, you can use recursion to outlast them in resources...Like:
I considered this. But then, almost all my EDH decks typically turn into graveyard decks. I wanted to try my hand at a deck that ignores avenues of interaction: by hating out searching, I prevent my opponents from hitting their answers, and by ignoring graveyards and running Relic, I can play an anti-graveyard game as well. As for resources, well, I plan to just draw a lot of cards. Simplistic I know, but so far it's working well. I'm thinking of finding room for an Elixir of Immortality though, as I've been having problems nearing millout before finding a win-con.
Not to hijack this thread but I have a question I need clarification on, if I Threaten or Act of Treason a creature then give it away to someone else will the original person lose the creature for good or do they get it back at the EOT, if this works do I get life and draw for the creature off Zedruu? Thanks.
Act of Treason will wear off on end step but it won't matter because it'll be one "layer" (essentially) "beneath" the Donate, which has the most recent timestamp. Zedruu's donate is permanent, so the person you donate the creature to will retain control until one of the following happens:
a. They are eliminated
b. The creature is gotten rid of or is stolen by someone
c. You (Zedruu's owner) are eliminated.
If the creature is alive after a or c, then it will revert to whoever controlled it before the Act of Treason, since that will be the most recent (timestamp order) controller.
Best way to deal with hate is to 1. Slowroll it and 2. Run counterspells. You need to be reactive so that way they are not in control. If they are still hating you out, design the deck so it doesn't rely on zed. The thing is, zed himself isn't a threat so he shouldn't be hated on nearly as much.
Buuuutt... I really love this as a Warp World deck!! I don't want to include too many instants and sorceries. I'll try to find room for Glen Elendra Archmage (can always donate it to a non-blue player), Cryptic, and Dissipate, which are (IMO) the best counters available in the format. Other than Time Stop, which may just be the best counter ever, ignoring mana cost...
What do you need to know about thought lash? Beginning of your upkeep choose not to pay with the effect on the stack donate it. They now own it, the cost wasn't paid so controller removes their library which is now then.
Well, that's the thing. My concern was whether the person who will remove their library is set in stone when it triggers (ie., independently of who controls the TL), or whether it only checks on resolution who to punish.
Good idea on Crystal Chime, I think I'll definitely adopt that idea! But as for the vows, I feel all creatures need to gain from them is evasion, so in this deck the only one worth running is the blue one. I don't want the creature I vowed to get blocked when opponent a swings it at opponent b - it might die, after all, and then I lose my aura I paid good mana for! When I vow a creature I want it to be beating one of my other opponents down, every turn. Evasion is needful. Trample can be considered a form of evasion, so the green one's ok. The white one is by far the worst, because now the vowed creature can attack one of my opponents and block me. Not good!
I run Cessation over Prison Term because, while Prison Term is amazing, it's suicide to donate it. If they can kill Zedruu they can lock your entire gameplan out until you find a way to kill the Prison Term, because then you can't recast Zedruu. Prison Term is a fine card, just not for this deck. Cessation works almost like a vow, plus it regrows itself if it dies, so they can't just use a one-off sac effect to spite your card draw.
The risk of randomly discarding a key card when you have a massive grip of cards thanks to Zedruu is pretty minimal. Mistveil Plains is a common pairing with Wild Research as well, just in case something important gets tossed. The ability to tutor for any enchantment or instant, as many times as you want, at instant speed, for only two mana each, is more than worth the additional cost. Even good stuff hoarded in your hand is worth pitching if it means you can get exactly the right tool exactly when you need it.
You don't have to run it if you really dislike the random discard, obviously. I just want to impress just how strong that card is.
Rainbow Vale is a nice addition since it makes patriotic mana ( ) and self donates (albeit temporarily). Even if everyone knows what youre up to with Zedruu and makes sure to use it and send it right back to you, you can tap it for mana and send it away again even if you dont spend the mana.
In terms of protecting Zedruu, if you are going the enchantment route there is Diplomatic Immunity. Tutorable through Enlightened Tutor and Wild Research, protects her and itself, and adds to my Serra's Sanctum count. (You have to be running enough enchantments that you dont plan on donating to make the Sanctum really worth it, though.)
Q: I control Puca's Mischief and Thought Lash. On my upkeep, I stack my triggers so that the Mischief ability will resolve before Thought Lash's cumulative upkeep and then trade Thought Lash for something. Will my opponents library be removed?
A: Assuming you choose not to pay the cumulative upkeep, that's exactly what will happen. Thought Lash has an ability that triggers when its cumulative upkeep isn't paid. At the time you don't pay, Thought Lash is controlled by your opponent, so he'll control the triggered ability, and it'll be his library that gets eaten.
Note that you'll also be instructed to sacrifice the Thought Lash, but you won't be able to, because you don't control it.
I understand you about not wanting to turn this deck into graveyard recursion. It happens to me everytime i build a new deck. It seems inevitable not to use graveyard and its massive resourceable quality.
I'd say that not using graveyard recursion in EDH (im not talking about Reanimation decks) is not using 100% of the potential that any giving Commander can offer.
The other route (as you mentioned) is becoming a Hater Deck...you know, hate tutor effects, graveyard, drawing, life gain...Kaervek the Merciless is a good commander for that type of deck.
I like the idea behind this deck
I'll keep checking this page and if I find enough of the cards, will probably give it a shot! if anything comes to my mind, I'll try and give my 2 cents as well!
This evil idea came up to me while going through my binder, and decided I wanted to share:
celestial dawn
for us, would be the perfect mana fixer.
but also a terrible menace for others, as in cutting them out of their colors TOTALLY! Am I wrong? (rule 4 A deck may not generate mana outside its colours. If an effect would generate mana of an illegal colour, it generates colourless mana instead.)
If it works, its a really nasty threat, but it can stay on our field happily while illusion, transcendece and the others, are not really welcome "chez nous" either.
Unless, of course, they play white too, in which case, better stick it to our side :S
I'm saving Swans of Bryn Argoll from Chain of Plasma attacks.
If you wanna help me, send your Swans to the "Swans of Bryn Argoll Rescue Center"
48 Swans rescued so far
EdH:
Kresh,the Bloodbraided
Scion of the ur dragon (work in progress)
Zedruu the greathearted
Ashling the pilgrim
Random WUR for swans
This evil idea came up to me while going through my binder, and decided I wanted to share:
celestial dawn
for us, would be the perfect mana fixer.
but also a terrible menace for others, as in cutting them out of their colors TOTALLY! Am I wrong? (rule 4 A deck may not generate mana outside its colours. If an effect would generate mana of an illegal colour, it generates colourless mana instead.)
If it works, its a really nasty threat, but it can stay on our field happily while illusion, transcendece and the others, are not really welcome "chez nous" either.
Unless, of course, they play white too, in which case, better stick it to our side :S
That IS truly nasty! Kudos... O_o;;; you scare me.
But: wouldn't the Celestial Dawn also turn their general (whether in play or not) white, and thus allow white mana as part of their general's color definition? Or is that pre-set at the start of the game based on the general's printed mana symbols?
I'm trying to get my hands on a Cultural Exchange. No luck yet. I'm considering throwing in Rust Elemental, but then they could sac other donated things. Would also tend to eat a lot of mana rocks, and messing with people's mana draws serious hate. Also, Steel Golem worries me. If I make it and they, say, Trickbind the Donate and then kill Zedruu, I'm in big trouble - I can't recast her!! I don't like cards that, if I can't donate them immediately, I'm hosed. >_<
It is the will of Zedruu.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this Howling Mine.
Take it.
I bequeath it to you.
While you possess it, it shall draw both of us extra cards.
I’m going to gain a life now.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … these Goblin Cadets.
May they serve you well. Although they flinch in battle, they occasionally reach through to an opponent.
I want you to have them.
I will be over here, drawing extra cards.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … the rest of this sandwich.
Do you not want the rest of this sandwich?
I haven’t even eaten half of it.
It is good, it is an asiago turkey club.
From Panera.
Right, the one near the college.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should take the sandwich, and finish most of it.
Take it. I insist.
I will be over here, gaining extra life.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this parking ticket.
I obtained it downtown.
How was I to know that that was a one-hour parking zone?
It is ironic that I should get a parking ticket so near the courthouse.
You see, I will have to go back there to pay it.
Take it.
You should have the parking ticket. I insist.
I will just … there. I will just draw this extra card.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this cold.
Yes. It is a doozy.
I missed a day of work because of it.
There you go. You’ll start sneezing soon.
I will be over here, drawing extra cards.
I feel better already.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this venereal disease.
It is my gift to you.
Don’t worry, it is a minor one.
It’s not one of the big ones.
Just some weird goat VD.
A doctor will clear it right up.
Try not to scratch when it itches.
I will be over here, gaining extra life.
Ah, that’s so much better.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have many pleasing things.
Here, this is a bag of used needles.
I'm saving Swans of Bryn Argoll from Chain of Plasma attacks.
If you wanna help me, send your Swans to the "Swans of Bryn Argoll Rescue Center"
48 Swans rescued so far
EdH:
Kresh,the Bloodbraided
Scion of the ur dragon (work in progress)
Zedruu the greathearted
Ashling the pilgrim
Random WUR for swans
That IS truly nasty! Kudos... O_o;;; you scare me.
But: wouldn't the Celestial Dawn also turn their general (whether in play or not) white, and thus allow white mana as part of their general's color definition? Or is that pre-set at the start of the game based on the general's printed mana symbols?
Your commander's colors are set at the start of the game.
I locked out a guy with it Saturday, he had stolen Zedruu so I had to go to plan B and use Puca's Mischief to give him the CD. He wasn't happy with me using such a brutal tactic (we keep it pretty casual) but I explained to him that the deck was light on win conditions.
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All the kids who played the blues
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide
I'm trying to get my hands on a Cultural Exchange. No luck yet. I'm considering throwing in Rust Elemental, but then they could sac other donated things. Would also tend to eat a lot of mana rocks, and messing with people's mana draws serious hate. Also, Steel Golem worries me. If I make it and they, say, Trickbind the Donate and then kill Zedruu, I'm in big trouble - I can't recast her!! I don't like cards that, if I can't donate them immediately, I'm hosed. >_<
I'm saving Swans of Bryn Argoll from Chain of Plasma attacks.
If you wanna help me, send your Swans to the "Swans of Bryn Argoll Rescue Center"
48 Swans rescued so far
EdH:
Kresh,the Bloodbraided
Scion of the ur dragon (work in progress)
Zedruu the greathearted
Ashling the pilgrim
Random WUR for swans
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There are two angles of approach to Zedruu as I see her: inoffensive group hug (donate things and pray everyone recognizes you as a nice guy and stays off your back) and brutal nastiness (donating things like Transcendence over and over again). I've tried to find a "middle way" between those poles with this deck.
1x Zedruu the Greathearted
Lands (36)
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mystifying Maze
1x Naya Panorama
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Homeward Path
1x Temple of the False God
1x Terrain Generator
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Mystic Gate
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Drifting Meadow
1x Remote Isle
1x Smoldering Crater
1x Vivid Crag
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Meadow
1x Command Tower
1x Azorius Chancery
1x Boros Garrison
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Halimar Depths
1x Glacial Fortress
4x Island
5x Plains
5x Mountain
Artifacts (13)
1x Azorius Signet
1x Boros Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Sol Ring
1x Cauldron of Souls
1x Crystal Shard
1x Howling Mine
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Meekstone
1x Mindlock Orb
1x Vedalken Orrery
1x Primordial Ooze
1x Blazing Archon
1x Nin, the Pain Artist
1x Roil Elemental
1x Auramancer
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Mulldrifter
1x Kor Sanctifiers
1x Mnemonic Wall
1x Taniwha
1x Molten Firebird
1x Goblin Welder
1x Galepowder Mage
1x Swans of Bryn Argoll
1x Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1x Dominus of Fealty
1x Wall of Omens
1x Vedalken Plotter
1x Chromeshell Crab
Enchantments (18)
1x Rise of the Hobgoblins
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pyrohemia
1x Pyromancer's Swath
1x Volition Reins
1x Propaganda
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Lightmine Field
1x Puca's Mischief
1x Stranglehold
1x Smoke
1x Cessation
1x Delaying Shield
1x Illusions of Grandeur
1x Thought Lash
1x Rhystic Study
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Vow of Flight
1x Time Stop
1x Master Warcraft
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Ray of Command
1x Evacuation
1x Brand
1x Oblation
1x Chaos Warp
Sorceries (4)
1x Austere Command
1x Insurrection
1x Legerdemain
1x Warp World
Planeswalker (1)
1x Venser, the Sojourner
I'll post comments and thoughts in a few hours, after I've had a chance to play it. Let me know what you think.
PS Edric list coming in a week!
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
It's pretty damn amazing. These guys are usually 12/12 after my draw step. Soramaro is the best so far because of his evasion, but Kiyomaro is nice since he has vigilance and then sits pretty as a 7/7 after discarding to block.
The first thing I've decided is that Goblin Welder has to go, all too often he's a dead card. I thought it might be funny to swap artifacts and then weld stuff but in practice it never could happen. He's going to be replaced by Dismantling Blow, which provides two things the deck needs more of - artifact and enchantment removal, and draw.
The second thing I've discovered: WOW, can this deck defend! Zedruu is your general if you enjoy "Fortress Magic". Expect the game to go long because she's light on win-cons, but you can always win out of nowhere with Insurrection, Brand, etc. Or just steal THEIR win-cons. Until then though, you can become nigh-unkillable with this deck.
I'm very glad I decided to run both Mazes, though the deck feels a bit land-light on many of its draws. If you're wondering why no Land Tax, look no further than Mindlock + Stranglehold. I've been wanting to combo these cards since Stranglehold was spoiled, and this is the deck for it! (in fact, Aven Mindcensor only narrowly missed the cut for the deck.) The singleton Panorama is probably going out for a Cascade Bluffs or Shivan Reef as soon as I can trade for one. You'd be surprised how utterly a "cannot search libraries" effect will hose out many decks. Especially mono-green ramp decks, which are VERY strong against Zedruu - stopping their overwhelming mana power is very crucial.
But the double Maze, to return to my topic, is a lifesaver. The deck has enough lifegain that with the maze effects, oblation, etc., I have little chance of losing to general damage out of nowhere. It requires will and effort on my opponent's part to put me in a position where I can lose to general damage.
That leaves mass token attack, which I have *many* answers to. Naturally if I start giving away tokens, I don't want them coming home to roost. It seems typically that when faced with the prospect of paying 2 to send them at me or swinging for free at someone else, well, as long as I'm not the prohibitive leader, they usually go elsewhere. Rise of the Hobs has been an all-star so far, I can donate the goblins if I want and I can definitely donate the enchantment itself, and if they don't have red or white it's useless to them. In one game I kept Vensering it to replay more tokens, since instead of a kicker, Rise of the Hobs has an enters-the-battlefield optional cost trigger.
At first I felt the deck was a bit wrath-light but now I feel it's very well balanced. The Austere is a wrath that I can focus on tokens or not as I choose, depending on what I've donated. The Myojin is a wrath I can then donate after I use it and I can just block it with tokens or whatever if it comes my way. Most people just take it and use it as a wall post-wrath to defend against speedy general decks like Skullbriar. Evacuation is essentially a wrath in that it saves my life and slows the game down massively, while resetting many of my tricks and letting me redonate cards to perhaps more deserving recipients. I considered running Kederekt Leviathan and he's still on the shortlist, just don't know what to cut for him. His mass-bounce is a great way to deal with problems of enemies who've assembled "defense in depth" (you know, things like Privileged Position + Greater Auramancy + Akroma's Memorial + Asceticism + guys = unstoppable vs. point removals). Bouncing all these toys could give me the window I need to disrupt them as the enemy tries to replay them. What say my readers? Does the Leviathan make the cut?
Some individual card explanations, for the curious:
Cauldron of Souls: creatures that persist return to the battlefield under their owner's control. Nuff said?
Crystal Shard: The insanity this card can produce is phenomenal. Not only does it tempo-screw all your opponents (esp. whoever's to your immediate right) by forcing them to leave mana up to prevent you from bouncing their most expensive thing, it also combos with every EtB trigger card in the deck (O-Ring trick anyone? 4-cost draw-2 with Mulldrifter?), and it lets you take back your donated stuff to redonate to new targets or reset upkeep costs. The combo with Illusions of Grandeur alone guarantees the Shard its pride of place as MVP in this deck.
Howling Mine, Meekstone, Smoke, Lightmine Field: cards that provide an overall effect that I want, but don't care who controls them. So I donate them and they're still effective, plus I draw more and gain more life. Lightmine in particular is hilariously good vs. tokens, preventing even small pokes (unlike Propaganda), and unlike my previous fave token smasher, Magus of the Tabernacle, it doesn't let them sac my donations. (Well, it does - but they have to ALSO swing with other guys, and lose them too.) Plus I had this foil Lightmine Field sitting around...
Orrery / Blueline: these are pretty standard as one-ofs in my EDH decks, but two in this deck is crucial. You want to be Donating on end step, and typically you want to make the donation card on end step and immediately donate it as well, right before you untap. This gives your opponents the smallest window to *use* the donated cards in, and the smallest window in which to disrupt your plans. It also lets you remain flexible about what to donate and when. Time and time again my butt was saved by being able to cast my spells with flash. EDIT: an added note, just remembered. When a creature changes controllership, it's removed from combat. So flashing blockers and then donating them before damage dealing is a great way to deal with non-trampling attackers!
Primordial Ooze: This card has languished in my box since I picked up about 20 from opening Chronicles packs in the day. Sixteen freaking years I have owned copies of this card. I have never put it in a deck. No one I know or have met has ever put one in a deck. It just. Sucks. So, here, have one!! Especially after Meekstone is out. Notice that it's not an upkeep that sacs when you fail to pay, this is more along the lines of Lord of the Pit. I give this to whichever opponent also has lifegain, to keep them from gaining life at a rate similar to mine. That way when Pyrohemia comes along I can burn them out without killing myself.
Nin, the Pain Artist: At first I was very dubious. She has summoning sickness and is very flimsy. But if you untap with her, it's quite worth it. You can draw a sickening number of cards off her. Obviously, you wait until the last opponent's end step. That way if they try to kill, steal, or exile her, just have her blow her own brains out for cards. "I have ways of making me talk!" Working on finding a Stuffy Doll to go with her.
Roil Elemental: woops, shouldn't have given you that guy. Gimme that back. OR: Gimme that. *turn to other opponent* here, you take it.
Phyrexian Metamorph: OK, this is a new strict rule. If your general has a blue mana symbol in their color identity and this card is not in your deck, YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Kor Sanctifiers: ahh, the things decks without green must stoop to. :*( Where are you, Acidic Slime, my love?
Warp World, Mnemonic Wall: proving that this deck also harbors a secret combo. I warped 3x in one turn one game, basically using WW as a sorcery with Annihilator 20ish on all opponents. Mnemo wall also tag teams nicely with Venser to regrow Master Warcrafts and Legerdemains, providing endless tricks.
Taniwha: if I cast this, it is only to donate it. And it is only donated to someone who, for instance, nuked three of my lands with a Terastodon and then O-Stoned. That sort of rough handling deserves the Phasing Yosei. Another example of a brutality donation is Pyro Swath, which I donate to counterspell-heavy decks. These cards are what is called, in politics, "throwing an elbow". The point being that once you prove you're willing to throw an elbow when it's called for, you'll never have to do it again. The deck needs a few flashy, terrifying "revenge" plays to scare people into not messing with you. Just *showing* a player Taniwha can sometimes encourage more... loyalty.
Molten Firebird: I'm running this over Ivory Gargoyle (the original, of which Firebird is the color-shifted reprint) because red is a rarer color than white among EDH decks, so it's more likely that one of my opponents will be unable to activate the exile ability. Donate it, kill it with Pyrohemia, get it back, and they skip their next draw. Soft lock anyone? Not effective until the game is down to one opponent, do this with multiple opponents left and they'll gang up on you out of pity for your victim.
Chromeshell Crab: I don't own a Gilded Drake. Working on it.
Vedalken Plotter: I wanted to find room for Political Trickery to have two of these effects. Finally had to cut PT, but it's high on the waiting list. Swapping lands is very effective, especially when they're basics as there's little targeted basic removal in the format, and few would bother to do so. So it basically guarantees a card for Zedruu every turn from then on. And then Plotter can be bounced or Vensered!
Pyrohemia: token suppression that doubles as a draw mechanic when Swans are online. Yes, please.
Puca's Mischief: Probably second only to shard for nuttiness. The two in combination are a staggeringly dangerous and flexible force, leading to many permanently stolen... well, permanents! Plus the card exemplifies the flavor of Zedruu at this stage of the game: mischievous tricks. The art on Insurrection is a better clue to what endgame looks like.
Delaying Shield: I was thrilled to discover this card in a bulk box. I think I fell in love with Odyssey all over again just because of it. The abusiveness of this spell beggars description. One can use it solely to prevent some damage, or Shard it to prevent all damage, but that is for those without the vision to see its true power. Not only does it make you immune to general damage - the only true vulnerability of a lifegain deck - but it lets you threaten horrific retribution for any attempted alpha strike. "If you send that 20-power attack at me, I'll give you the shield. And you don't even have white mana. Oh, attacking him instead? Thought so."
Thought Lash: I need help with this spell. It's nasty enough as-is: donate to give opponent a factorial mill-to-exile trigger on upkeep that they can't get out of by choosing not to pay. But I've read posts by some who believe Thoughtlash contains an even more vicious possibility. Here is what I have been told, and opinions seem conflicted on whether this works: Pass to your own upkeep while controlling the Lash and Zedruu. Put the age counter on, then choose NOT to pay the upkeep. Put the "exile my library" punishment trigger on the stack, and without letting that resolve, donate the cursed thing. According to some, the unlucky winner of this booby prize will be the one who exiles their library. According to others, I would just wind up exiling my own library while everyone points and laughs. I need to know if this works or not. I will probably pull TL if it *does* work, because I wouldn't feel comfortable running such a harsh "I win" combo. (It's the same reason I'm not running Transcendence.)
Only running the blue vow because IMO the red and white ones suck. They don't grant evasion! P.S. Vow of Malice is strictly the best of them, for this reason: what precisely can block an Eldrazi or Blightsteel Colossus with Intimidate? Artifact creatures only, unless a Scuttlemutt gives that Eldrazi a color. So, when Ulamog / BSC / insert your favorite silly colorless post-Emmy-banning win-stick here comes along, Vow of M = your other opponents die screaming. Vow of Flight is merely OK, not great. Might wind up cutting it for a Shackles or Prison Term.
Master Warcraft: It's not perfect in every deck with R/W, but in a deck like this, that wants to be a fortress and then win out of nowhere, this is perfect. Nothing beats dropping Blazing Archon, passing the turn, and instructing opponent A to kill opponent B, and opponent B to stand by meekly and take it. (You don't control where the creatures attack, so make sure there's only one possible way they CAN go, or that you have other angles covered.) It's also a fine fog, denying attack steps.
Oblation, Chaos Warp: Not only are these spectacular removals & tuck effects, they're also great ways to punish someone who tries to use one of your donated toys against you. You remain the owner of the card so YOU get the draw or free permanent. And this deck has a lot of permanents because...
Warp World. Yeah, deck's secretly a Warp World deck. Who knew?
If anyone would like to try my Zedruu list and let me know how it works for them, or post your own card choices and critiques, I'd love to hear them!
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
Edit: donating thought lash with unpaid upkeep exiles their library, the donate goes off giving it to them, then unpaid upkeep and they are the new controller even though they did not choose to pay. I use it as a deterrence more than griefing, its a good way to end games
RG Wort, the Raidmother GR - 1v1
UGW Rafiq of the Many WGU - Multiplayer
BW Ghost Council of Orzhova WB - Multiplayer
Day of Judgement, Gravepact (and shenanigans), Hour of Reckoning, Sulfurous Blast (doubled with Riku), Phyrexian Metamorph (copying Reiver Demon). etc. I know there is not one single card that will address all of these issues, but I need to see a bit more survivability for poor ole Z.
Darksteel Plate seems fair, but lacks synergy with the rest of the deck. Asceticism is out of color, Safe Haven seems mana intensive and slow. Lightning Greaves is the equipage of choice, but few people are targeting Mr. Goat, he is just inadvertently dying. Maybe equipment is the way to go, using an equipment search subtheme, I will investigate good donate-able equipment.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Can you elaborate more on the Thought lash move...?
@Beralt
There are Lighting Greaves Champion's Helm and Clout of the Dominus to star off.
Also, you can use recursion to outlast them in resources...Like:
GBW Ghave - BWR Kaalia - UBG Mineoplasm - URG Riku - GRW Uril - GBR Prossh, I need food - BWU Oloro Lock - UGW Derevi Blink - RBU Nekusar, the Wheeler - UBRWG Progenitus - BR Lyzolda - UB Gisa & Geralf Zombies - UG Edric, Spymaster of Trest +1 Counters matter - W Lin Sivvi - BWU Sydri Artifact Control - RWU Narset, the Attacker - GRW Mayael, the Cheater - RWUG Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis Landfall - GBW Doran, I like Big Butts - UR Mizzix Buyback BWR Edgar and his Vamps
What do you need to know about thought lash? Beginning of your upkeep choose not to pay with the effect on the stack donate it. They now own it, the cost wasn't paid so controller removes their library which is now then.
RG Wort, the Raidmother GR - 1v1
UGW Rafiq of the Many WGU - Multiplayer
BW Ghost Council of Orzhova WB - Multiplayer
Actually Clout of the Dominus is another route I could go if I chose to go the enchantment route, seems to work well with Wild Research as mentioned above. Idyllic Tutor would fit well with Oblivion Ring, Prison Term, Journey to Nowhere, Propoganda and the Vows, then include Crystal Chimes and other recursion methods.
This will tailor into Thoughtlash, Illusions and Swath Combos.
My favorite means to protect Z? Giving her Flash. Most of the things you named are sorcery-speed. I run Orrery + Leyline so that I make her on my last opponent's end step, donate something, untap, get cards, and then Greaves her. They need an instant to shoot her. And I've netted at least one, if not more, cards from her. Then I try to use bounce effects to save her if possible. (Crystal Shard is a wonder for rescuing Z.)
Umm, I tend to ignore cards that make me discard at random. All too often with Z. I find myself stockpiling things like Insurrection, extra Propagandas, and say Mindlock while I have Stranglehold online, so as to lose fewer permanents when someone disks. And someone *always* disks, this being EDH. Since my hand is usually a Goodstuff Stockpile, I generally don't have many blanks I'm willing to pitch.
The true beauty of Stranglehold in this deck is a hidden factor I recognized some time ago about Mindlock Orb: Preventing search gives the advantage to the blue player. Why? Because blue can just dig for its answers, drawing tons until it finds them. Other colors, when locked out of search effects, are reduced to topdecking and occasionally scrying effects to try to dig. Therefore Mindlock Orb benefits blue mages primarily. Stranglehold obviously advantages blue mages and its caster w.r.t. searching, but disadvantages blue mages other than yourself w.r.t. taking extra turns, another blue specialty. I'd say it's still an overall gain even though extra turns combos VERY nicely with drawing multiple per turn. But then, I also like my opponents to still want to play games of EDH with me, and running a lot of extra-turn effects tends to kill that.
In short, aside from Land Tax and fetchlands, there were practically no search effects I really wanted to include. So Mindlock was a gimme. Stranglehold just provides double the nasty.
Here's how it is said to work (Still not sure if I believe that this is legit):
You cast your Thought Lash. Rather than donating it, you let it go back to your own turn. (You might need to flash it in with Orrery/Leyline or else smart opponents will blow it up on sight.) You put the cumulative upkeep trigger on the stack, then resolve it (no Donate yet). As you resolve the cumu upk trigger you add an age counter, then choose whether to pay the mill-to-exile cost. Choose not to. This triggers the "exile my library" effect. The cumu upk trigger has now resolved fully. The stack clears and state based is checked. Exile-my-library is put on the stack, "my" being "controller of TL". With this on the stack, donate the TL with Zedruu. Donate resolves. Finally, Exile-my-library resolves, and mills out whoever currently controls the TL.
My only concern is whether the exile-my-library effect will hit the current controller of TL, or the person who controlled the TL when the ability triggered.
Not to mention Whispersilk Cloak. Unlike in other EDH decks no one's going to hateswing you to death for Cloaking Zedruu, as she's obviously not a potential source of general-damage victory. It's more expensive is all.
M12 has an upgraded Greaves coming out that should *definitely* be first pick. Second pick is Greaves, and third pick is Crystal Shard. (Who needs shroud when you can just rescue her?)
Clout is nice if you can get it attached. Remember that it's sorcery speed and it's an aura, not an equip. You lose it off the first wrath, unlike Greaves.
Have you considered Totem Armors? Hyena Umbra is a very cheap (1 CMC) way to prevent destruction. Can't stop bounce/exile/tuck though.
I considered this. But then, almost all my EDH decks typically turn into graveyard decks. I wanted to try my hand at a deck that ignores avenues of interaction: by hating out searching, I prevent my opponents from hitting their answers, and by ignoring graveyards and running Relic, I can play an anti-graveyard game as well. As for resources, well, I plan to just draw a lot of cards. Simplistic I know, but so far it's working well. I'm thinking of finding room for an Elixir of Immortality though, as I've been having problems nearing millout before finding a win-con.
Act of Treason will wear off on end step but it won't matter because it'll be one "layer" (essentially) "beneath" the Donate, which has the most recent timestamp. Zedruu's donate is permanent, so the person you donate the creature to will retain control until one of the following happens:
a. They are eliminated
b. The creature is gotten rid of or is stolen by someone
c. You (Zedruu's owner) are eliminated.
If the creature is alive after a or c, then it will revert to whoever controlled it before the Act of Treason, since that will be the most recent (timestamp order) controller.
Buuuutt... I really love this as a Warp World deck!! I don't want to include too many instants and sorceries. I'll try to find room for Glen Elendra Archmage (can always donate it to a non-blue player), Cryptic, and Dissipate, which are (IMO) the best counters available in the format. Other than Time Stop, which may just be the best counter ever, ignoring mana cost...
Well, that's the thing. My concern was whether the person who will remove their library is set in stone when it triggers (ie., independently of who controls the TL), or whether it only checks on resolution who to punish.
Good idea on Crystal Chime, I think I'll definitely adopt that idea! But as for the vows, I feel all creatures need to gain from them is evasion, so in this deck the only one worth running is the blue one. I don't want the creature I vowed to get blocked when opponent a swings it at opponent b - it might die, after all, and then I lose my aura I paid good mana for! When I vow a creature I want it to be beating one of my other opponents down, every turn. Evasion is needful. Trample can be considered a form of evasion, so the green one's ok. The white one is by far the worst, because now the vowed creature can attack one of my opponents and block me. Not good!
I run Cessation over Prison Term because, while Prison Term is amazing, it's suicide to donate it. If they can kill Zedruu they can lock your entire gameplan out until you find a way to kill the Prison Term, because then you can't recast Zedruu. Prison Term is a fine card, just not for this deck. Cessation works almost like a vow, plus it regrows itself if it dies, so they can't just use a one-off sac effect to spite your card draw.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
You don't have to run it if you really dislike the random discard, obviously. I just want to impress just how strong that card is.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
In terms of protecting Zedruu, if you are going the enchantment route there is Diplomatic Immunity. Tutorable through Enlightened Tutor and Wild Research, protects her and itself, and adds to my Serra's Sanctum count. (You have to be running enough enchantments that you dont plan on donating to make the Sanctum really worth it, though.)
A: Assuming you choose not to pay the cumulative upkeep, that's exactly what will happen. Thought Lash has an ability that triggers when its cumulative upkeep isn't paid. At the time you don't pay, Thought Lash is controlled by your opponent, so he'll control the triggered ability, and it'll be his library that gets eaten.
Note that you'll also be instructed to sacrifice the Thought Lash, but you won't be able to, because you don't control it.
From http://mtgsalvation.com/989-cranial-insertion-under-the-weather.html
Can we put it to rest that it works now?
RG Wort, the Raidmother GR - 1v1
UGW Rafiq of the Many WGU - Multiplayer
BW Ghost Council of Orzhova WB - Multiplayer
I'd say that not using graveyard recursion in EDH (im not talking about Reanimation decks) is not using 100% of the potential that any giving Commander can offer.
The other route (as you mentioned) is becoming a Hater Deck...you know, hate tutor effects, graveyard, drawing, life gain...Kaervek the Merciless is a good commander for that type of deck.
I'll keep checking this page and if I find enough of the cards, will probably give it a shot! if anything comes to my mind, I'll try and give my 2 cents as well!
This evil idea came up to me while going through my binder, and decided I wanted to share:
celestial dawn
for us, would be the perfect mana fixer.
but also a terrible menace for others, as in cutting them out of their colors TOTALLY! Am I wrong? (rule 4 A deck may not generate mana outside its colours. If an effect would generate mana of an illegal colour, it generates colourless mana instead.)
If it works, its a really nasty threat, but it can stay on our field happily while illusion, transcendece and the others, are not really welcome "chez nous" either.
Unless, of course, they play white too, in which case, better stick it to our side :S
If you wanna help me, send your Swans to the "Swans of Bryn Argoll Rescue Center"
48 Swans rescued so far
EdH:
Kresh,the Bloodbraided
Scion of the ur dragon (work in progress)
Zedruu the greathearted
Ashling the pilgrim
Random WUR for swans
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
That IS truly nasty! Kudos... O_o;;; you scare me.
But: wouldn't the Celestial Dawn also turn their general (whether in play or not) white, and thus allow white mana as part of their general's color definition? Or is that pre-set at the start of the game based on the general's printed mana symbols?
I'm trying to get my hands on a Cultural Exchange. No luck yet. I'm considering throwing in Rust Elemental, but then they could sac other donated things. Would also tend to eat a lot of mana rocks, and messing with people's mana draws serious hate. Also, Steel Golem worries me. If I make it and they, say, Trickbind the Donate and then kill Zedruu, I'm in big trouble - I can't recast her!! I don't like cards that, if I can't donate them immediately, I'm hosed. >_<
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this Howling Mine.
Take it.
I bequeath it to you.
While you possess it, it shall draw both of us extra cards.
I’m going to gain a life now.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … these Goblin Cadets.
May they serve you well. Although they flinch in battle, they occasionally reach through to an opponent.
I want you to have them.
I will be over here, drawing extra cards.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … the rest of this sandwich.
Do you not want the rest of this sandwich?
I haven’t even eaten half of it.
It is good, it is an asiago turkey club.
From Panera.
Right, the one near the college.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should take the sandwich, and finish most of it.
Take it. I insist.
I will be over here, gaining extra life.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this parking ticket.
I obtained it downtown.
How was I to know that that was a one-hour parking zone?
It is ironic that I should get a parking ticket so near the courthouse.
You see, I will have to go back there to pay it.
Take it.
You should have the parking ticket. I insist.
I will just … there. I will just draw this extra card.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this cold.
Yes. It is a doozy.
I missed a day of work because of it.
There you go. You’ll start sneezing soon.
I will be over here, drawing extra cards.
I feel better already.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have … this venereal disease.
It is my gift to you.
Don’t worry, it is a minor one.
It’s not one of the big ones.
Just some weird goat VD.
A doctor will clear it right up.
Try not to scratch when it itches.
I will be over here, gaining extra life.
Ah, that’s so much better.
It is the will of Zedruu that you should have many pleasing things.
Here, this is a bag of used needles.
(as found here http://magiclampoon.com/blog/2011/06/19/it-is-the-will-of-zedruu)
Take it, I insist!
^______^
If you wanna help me, send your Swans to the "Swans of Bryn Argoll Rescue Center"
48 Swans rescued so far
EdH:
Kresh,the Bloodbraided
Scion of the ur dragon (work in progress)
Zedruu the greathearted
Ashling the pilgrim
Random WUR for swans
Your commander's colors are set at the start of the game.
I locked out a guy with it Saturday, he had stolen Zedruu so I had to go to plan B and use Puca's Mischief to give him the CD. He wasn't happy with me using such a brutal tactic (we keep it pretty casual) but I explained to him that the deck was light on win conditions.
Would learn my licks with a bottle neck slide
Rust Elemental seems a little underwhelming.
Steel Golem/Grid Monitor are really good in the deck. Yes, you run the risk of having Zedruu killed in response, but you should have other outs to them in the deck, whether it's other swap cards like Juxtapose, Legerdemain, and Cultural Exchange, or sac outlets like High Market and Phyrexia's Core.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
OHMYGOD!
and whatabout embargo (dont know if its already been mentioned)
also bulwark and grafted skullcap seems to be nice
going to build my deck and post as soon as I have feedbacks!
If you wanna help me, send your Swans to the "Swans of Bryn Argoll Rescue Center"
48 Swans rescued so far
EdH:
Kresh,the Bloodbraided
Scion of the ur dragon (work in progress)
Zedruu the greathearted
Ashling the pilgrim
Random WUR for swans