I've decided to build my next EDH deck around rats. It started off as 40 Relentless Rats + stuff that goes good with rats, and has evolved into a discard deck that wins by either punishing opponents for discarding or by overwhelming them with rats. It's pretty casual; this is not going to be a "tier 1" EDH deck. But it should be fun and on-flavour. Here is my list so far, and I welcome any suggestions (card improvements; changes in theme; etc). My biggest concern is that in many cases, I might be better off taking out a card in favour of another Relentless Rats. And in fact, I might keep an extra 20+ Relentless Rats on hand (does that rule apply to the sideboard too?) to swap out the non-Relentless Rats creatures for times that I want to try that.
Basic lands (26) 24 Swamp 1 Urborg (might be useful, and no downside besides not being type "swamp") 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (makes all lands "swamps")
Other cards I'm considering:
+ Ashnod's Altar (turn rat tokens into mana; goes very nicely with Savra, Queen of the Golgari, but then you don't have easy access to Marrow-Gnawer in the commander role; but it's a nice sac outlet to trigger Grave Pact)
+ Blasting Station (direct damage by sacrificing rat tokens; requires more creatures EtB to untap it for infinite damage combo)
I dont know if you are sold on the mono black relentless rats or not but keep in mind that if you would change it to B/G you could have a few options here:
Alluren allows you to drop rats in at instant speed for free. Very nifty to combo up with the Ripple 4. This allows you to wait until the time for wrath spells is past then at the end of turn you drop in a ton of your rats.
Bloodbond March This lets you rez all of your rats every time you play one. Sounds like fun to me.
Concordant Crossroads haste is very nice after you use the ripple to spawn all of your rats.
Vedalken Orrery another means to play rats at instant speed. This gets you arround the window for Wrath effects and lets you ripple into a mass army with haste.
I would consider you bump your relentless rats count up to somewhere arround 25 or 30 though if you want it to revolve arround them. If you go green / black you will want it to be about doing such. You will want it to be your key combo pieces, tutors for them, and tons of rats. You dont need to do it this way by any means but I figured I would just let you mull over that tactic as well for this deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
things i would cut
gnat miser
throat slitter(if you want removal just play rend flesh or something)
death greeter(why do you need mediocre lifegain?)
magus of the coffers(hes really expensive,fragile and has summoning sickness and you dont need that much mana)
choice of damnations(i feel like corrupt would deal more consistent dmg. or somehting like exsanguinate)
alot of the random non basics.
i would want to run more CA so your "each player discards" doesnt leave you without cards as well.
skullclamp is nice
also consider these discard spells unnerve syphon mind
I dont know if you are sold on the mono black relentless rats or not but keep in mind that if you would change it to B/G you could have a few options here:
Alluren allows you to drop rats in at instant speed for free. Very nifty to combo up with the Ripple 4. This allows you to wait until the time for wrath spells is past then at the end of turn you drop in a ton of your rats.
Bloodbond March This lets you rez all of your rats every time you play one. Sounds like fun to me.
Concordant Crossroads haste is very nice after you use the ripple to spawn all of your rats.
Vedalken Orrery another means to play rats at instant speed. This gets you arround the window for Wrath effects and lets you ripple into a mass army with haste.
I would consider you bump your relentless rats count up to somewhere arround 25 or 30 though if you want it to revolve arround them. If you go green / black you will want it to be about doing such. You will want it to be your key combo pieces, tutors for them, and tons of rats. You dont need to do it this way by any means but I figured I would just let you mull over that tactic as well for this deck.
For now I'll stick with mono-black. Instant-speed rats are obviously superior, but the rat ninja surprise effect might be good enough for now. If I find mono-black just can't compete in my play group, I'll definitely "upgrade" to BG or UBG.
In the current list, the mana ramp is primarily to get Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Memorial into play ASAP (probably first things I tutor for; expect to draw into a lot of rats). These give me indestructible flying rats with fear (via my commander) and haste... and vigilance... and trample... and protection. The monument's sacrifice cost is negligible considering my commander's ability. That protects them from wrath, so long as the artifacts aren't destroyed/exiled. Adding Vedalken Orrery for instant speed is pretty nice. Perhaps I need some artifact protection (Darksteel Forge?) or recursion (Moriok Scavenger? Myr Retriever? Or use Glissa as a BG commander?).
things i would cut
gnat miser
throat slitter(if you want removal just play rend flesh or something)
death greeter(why do you need mediocre lifegain?)
magus of the coffers(hes really expensive,fragile and has summoning sickness and you dont need that much mana)
choice of damnations(i feel like corrupt would deal more consistent dmg. or somehting like exsanguinate)
alot of the random non basics.
i would want to run more CA so your "each player discards" doesnt leave you without cards as well.
skullclamp is nice
also consider these discard spells unnerve syphon mind
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll update the deck list as soon as I have a chance.
I might keep Throat Slitter, though. It only costs 3 mana via Ninjutsu, and it's reusable. If it isn't destroyed, it should connect often considering my commander gives all my rats fear. Plus it's a rat, so it helps my commander with token generating.
Regarding Deathgreeter, my thought was that I need enough life (preferably the most) for Crypt Rats' and Infected Vermin's "everybody takes damage" abilities (which, by the way, are other uses for big mana ramp). With Eldrazi Monument and my commander both making me sacrifice a rat, that's at least 2 life per turn, plus life gain whenever another player loses a creature - via Throat Slitter, Sheoldred, Grave Pact, or otherwise. And I don't see anybody wasting their precious removal on Deathgreeter...
Sadistic Hypnotist is a great discard tool when you have lots of tokens handy. I second the Syphon Mind recommendation as well. It's an undercosted draw 3 in black, if nothing else, at most multiplayer tables. Lastly, Cabal Conditioning is the next best thing to a Myojin of Night's Reach.
Big update to OP. At least in this iteration, I've de-emphasized Relentless Rats (and aggro in general) in favour of discard (and damage via discard) plus some control (removal, force players to sac permanents). For 1-on-1, 2HG, and perhaps 3-player, I might return to the Relentless Rats version (hence the sideboard), but I'll try this first to see how it goes. My biggest concern right now is that I won't have enough total rats to reach critical mass for the commander's ability. I need enough to spawn plenty of rat tokens for sacrificing purposes - to make Grave Pact into an alternative wincon.
5 - Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + two other rats in play + Skullclamp = draw two cards x infinity (well, until I choose to stop, or run out of mana or cards in my library)
With infinite mana from combo 2, use Crypt Rats or Infected Vermin or Exsanguinate to deal lethal damage to all players; requires that I have the most life in order to survive.
Sadistic Hypnotist is a great discard tool when you have lots of tokens handy. I second the Syphon Mind recommendation as well. It's an undercosted draw 3 in black, if nothing else, at most multiplayer tables. Lastly, Cabal Conditioning is the next best thing to a Myojin of Night's Reach.
Definitely like Sadistic Hypnotist. That will keep everyone's hands empty once I get some rat tokens on the battlefield.
These are all good ideas. I have had that problem with a casual discard deck (based on the DotP Lilana Vess deck). I might play-test this deck to see if it's a problem before adding cards that give my opponents more cards. It might not be necessary since I have cards that punish empty/top-decking hands; e.g. Painful Quandary, Quest for the Nihil Stone, and Stabwhisker the Odious (Nezumi Shortfang flipped after opponents are out of cards). I was going to include The Rack, but it's only good for 1-on-1 (becomes useless once the target player loses). But those suggestions could come in handy especially since I might run low on cards in hand.
Of those, I like Temple Bell and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea the most, since they give me control over when they trigger. I can imagine scenarios when I'd regret giving my opponents extra cards via Howling Mine or Font of Mythos - e.g. giving them the final pieces of their infinite combo...
I'm thinking of making two builds of this deck: one for multi-player that focuses more on the discard aspect (which is what I've been working on), and another for 1-on-1, 3-handed, or 2HG play. The latter will be an aggro deck featuring Coat of Arms and Door of Destinies to give 30+ Relentless Rats a power and toughness boost of up to 3n-2. Dolmen Gate can give my attacking rats some early protection so I can attack with little consequence and ninja in some surprises. Then I'll ramp up the mana to cast Thrumming Stone, Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Monument... and then it's just a matter of overwhelming my opponents with sheer numbers. I'm sure there are better aggro builds than mono-black rats (red land destruction + multiple attack phases comes to mind), but it should be fun when I thrumming stone through most of my deck, then tap my commander to put ~ 100 rats on the battlefield, then attack with all of them! It will just be a matter of "sideboarding" in/out about 40 cards, removing most of the discard and direct damage components.
OK... I've made most of the recommended changes to the OP and will likely make more pending play-testing. That's for the multi-player build of this deck.
And here is what the 1-on-1 build looks like right now (last updated 2011-05-19):
At risk of turning this into a "black goodstuff deck", I think I need to add Avatar of Woe to the multiplayer deck. With all the discarding going on, it won't take long for AoW to cost BB. And if a 6/5 with fear for BB isn't good enough on its own, then AoW + Thornbite Staff = destroy all opponents' creatures (that don't have shroud).
Something tells me the first thing I should tutor for is Thornbite Staff...
And I just discovered Swarmyard yesterday, so that's going in - for flavour if nothing else (and to protect my commander or other key rats).
I also decided that Darksteel Forge is too expensive at 9 despite my deck's dependence on some artifacts. Black doesn't have much in the way of artifact protection (seems to be a white ability); the only card I could find is Guardian Beast (from Arabian Nights), but at $40, I might have to pass.
W00t! My rats deck won its first game in 1-on-1 mode! I think it's 1 for 14 now... And it took a god hand (2 Swamps, 1 Relentless Rats, Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor) to do it:
1 - Swamp, Sol Ring
2 - Swamp, Demonic Tutor (to fetch Thrumming Stone)
3 - Swamp, Thrumming Stone
4 - Relentless Rats, thrumming until I decided to stop at 14 rats (in case of wrath; also drew another RR so ready to go again if necessary), making each a 15/15
- opponent blew up my Thrumming Stone on her turn 4
5 - Marrow Gnawer; attacked with 14x 15/15 Relentless Rats with fear. GG.
Usually my Thrumming Stone doesn't last long enough to use it. Ditto for Thornbite Staff (when I've attempted infinite rat tokens).
I've had a few more ideas for the (non-Relentless) discard rats version. Besides, it should be more fun to play than "tutor for Thrumming Stone, and when that doesn't work, try Thornbite Staff" deck. I'll play test and tweak it a bit before posting a revised version.
1 Marrow-Gnawer
Rats (16)
1 Cairn Wanderer
1 Crypt Rats
1 Diseased Vermin
1 Infected Vermin
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Nezumi Bone-Reader
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Pestilence Rats
1 Ravenous Rats
1 Rotting Rats
1 Skullsnatcher
1 Stronghold Rats
1 Swarm of Rats
1 Throat Slitter
Supporting creatures (9)
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Nightshade Assassin
1 Patron of the Nezumi
1 Ratcatcher
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Sangromancer
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
Enchantments (10)
1 Black Market
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Conspiracy
1 Grave Pact
1 Liliana's Caress
1 Megrim
1 Painful Quandary
1 Quest for the Nihil Stone
1 Wound Reflection
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Cloak and Dagger
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Expedition Map
1 Geth's Grimoire
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Vedalken Orrery
Sorceries (11)
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Call to the Netherworld
1 Corrupt
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Profane Command
1 Rite of Consumption
1 Syphon Mind
Instants (2)
1 Dark Withering
1 Vampiric Tutor
Lands (36)
1 Bottomless Vault
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Deserted Temple
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Leechridden Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
24 Swamp
1 Swarmyard
1 Urborg
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Vesuva
1 Coat of Arms
1 Door of Destinies
30 Relentless Rats
2 Swamp
1 Thrumming Stone
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Marrow-Gnawer (generates tokens)
Commander accessories (4)
1 Cloak and Dagger (shroud)
1 Lightning Greaves (shroud)
1 Thornbite Staff (infinite combos)
1 Thousand-Year Elixir (combos)
Board wipe (3)
1 Crypt Rats (also direct damage)
1 Damnation
1 Infected Vermin (also direct damage)
Direct Damage (11)
1 Corrupt (also life gain)
0 Crypt Rats (also board wipe)
1 Diseased Vermin
1 Exsanguinate (also life-gain)
0 Infected Vermin (also board wipe)
1 Leechridden Swamp
1 Patron of the Nezumi
1 Profane Command (also direct recursion, removal)
1 Rite of Consumption (also life-gain)
1 Sorin Markov (also life-gain, control player)
1 Wound Reflection
Force Discard (13)
1 Anvil of Bogardan (also drawing power)
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Liliana Vess (also tutor, reanimation)
1 Myojin of Night's Reach (all opponents discard entire hand)
1 Nezumi Bone-Reader (repeatable via saccing rat tokens)
1 Nezumi Shortfang (also damage from discard)
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi (2 cards on damage; Ninjutsu)
1 Painful Quandary (choice of discard or direct damage)
1 Ravenous Rats (on EtB)
1 Rotting Rats (on EtB)
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Stronghold Rats (on damage; everyone discards)
1 Syphon Mind (also card draw)
1 Bloodchief Ascension (causes damage whenever they put a card in their graveyards)
1 Liliana's Caress
1 Megrim
0 Nezumi Shortfang (also forces discard)
0 Painful Quandary (choice of discard or direct damage)
1 Quest for the Nihil Stone (punishment for few cards)
Recursion/Reanimation (10)
1 Beacon of Unrest (can also grab an artifact)
1 Call to the Netherworld (free via Madness)
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault (graveyard love?)
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni (Ninjutsu)
0 Liliana Vess (also discard, tutor)
1 Nezumi Graverobber (also graveyard hate)
1 Patriarch's Bidding (tribal mass reanimation)
0 Profane Command (also direct damage, removal)
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One (also forces sacrifice)
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Graveyard hate (2)
0 Nezumi Graverobber (also reanimation)
1 Skullsnatcher (Ninjutsu)
Removal/force sacrifice (8)
1 Avatar of Woe (repeatable; combos with Thornbite)
1 Dark Withering (cheap via Madness)
1 Grave Pact (awesome!)
1 Nightshade Assassin (cheap via Madness)
0 Profane Command (also direct damage, recursion)
0 Sheoldred, Whispering One (also reanimation)
1 Skullclamp
1 Throat Slitter (Ninjutsu)
Beat-sticks, enhancements (6)
1 Akroma's Memorial (flying rats with haste, vigilance and protection? yes please!)
1 Eldrazi Monument (indestructible flying rats? yes please!)
1 Pestilence Rats (benefits from tokens)
1 Swarm of Rats (benefits from tokens)
1 Swarmyard (regenerate a rat)
1 Vedalken Orrery (flash permanents)
0 Corrupt (also direct damage)
1 Deathgreeter
0 Exsanguinate (also direct damage)
1 Rite of Consumption (also direct damage)
1 Sangromancer
0 Sorin Markov (also direct damage, control player)
Mana-ramp (10)
1 Black Market (benefits from sacrifice/removal)
1 Bottomless Vault
1 Cabal Coffers (benefits from swamps in play)
1 Crypt of Agadeem (benefits from rats in graveyard)
1 Deserted Temple (to untap Cabal Coffers)
1 Expedition Map (to fetch Cabal Coffers)
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Phyrexian Tower (sac outlet; turn rat tokens into mana!)
1 Sol Ring
1 Vesuva (at worst it's a "swamp"; at best it's a "Cabal Coffers"... or a "Strip Mine" for legendary lands, etc)
Tutors/drawing (10)
0 Anvil of Bogardan (also forces discard)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Geth's Grimoire
0 Liliana Vess (also discard, reanimation)
1 Ratcatcher (rat tutor)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
0 Skullclamp
0 Syphon Mind (also force discard)
1 Vampiric Tutor
Basic lands (26)
24 Swamp
1 Urborg (might be useful, and no downside besides not being type "swamp")
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (makes all lands "swamps")
2011-05-17
- Barren Moor + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Bojuka Bog + Deserted Temple
- Ebon Stronghold + Expedition Map
- Peat Bog + Swarmyard
- Polluted Mire + Vesuva
- Subterranean Hangar + Swamp
- Howltooth Hollow + Swamp
- Choice of Damnations + Corrupt
- Plague of Vermin + Profane Command
- Magus of the Coffers + Beacon of Unrest
- Gnat Miser + Anvil of Bogardan
- Thrumming Stone + Vedalken Orrery
- Relentless Rats + Skullclamp
- Relentless Rats + Black Market
- Relentless Rats + Call to the Netherworld
- Relentless Rats + Dark Withering
- Relentless Rats + Nightshade Assassin
- Relentless Rats + Darksteel Forge
- Relentless Rats + Exsanguinate
- Relentless Rats + Syphon Mind
- Relentless Rats + Sadistic Hypnotist
- Coat of Arms + Bottomless Pit
- Yawgmoth's Will + Wound Reflection
- Dark Ritual + Bloodchief Ascension
- Deathgreeter + Avatar of Woe
- Darksteel Forge + Lightning Greaves
Thrumming Stone + 19 Relentless Rats to sideboard (e.g. swap non-Relentless creatures for Relentless Rats + Thrumming Stone to go for a pure aggro rat storm, perhaps for 1-on-1 and 3-player games where a more aggro style might work).
Other cards I'm considering:
+ Ashnod's Altar (turn rat tokens into mana; goes very nicely with Savra, Queen of the Golgari, but then you don't have easy access to Marrow-Gnawer in the commander role; but it's a nice sac outlet to trigger Grave Pact)
+ Blasting Station (direct damage by sacrificing rat tokens; requires more creatures EtB to untap it for infinite damage combo)
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Alluren allows you to drop rats in at instant speed for free. Very nifty to combo up with the Ripple 4. This allows you to wait until the time for wrath spells is past then at the end of turn you drop in a ton of your rats.
Bloodbond March This lets you rez all of your rats every time you play one. Sounds like fun to me.
Concordant Crossroads haste is very nice after you use the ripple to spawn all of your rats.
Vedalken Orrery another means to play rats at instant speed. This gets you arround the window for Wrath effects and lets you ripple into a mass army with haste.
I would consider you bump your relentless rats count up to somewhere arround 25 or 30 though if you want it to revolve arround them. If you go green / black you will want it to be about doing such. You will want it to be your key combo pieces, tutors for them, and tons of rats. You dont need to do it this way by any means but I figured I would just let you mull over that tactic as well for this deck.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
gnat miser
throat slitter(if you want removal just play rend flesh or something)
death greeter(why do you need mediocre lifegain?)
magus of the coffers(hes really expensive,fragile and has summoning sickness and you dont need that much mana)
choice of damnations(i feel like corrupt would deal more consistent dmg. or somehting like exsanguinate)
alot of the random non basics.
i would want to run more CA so your "each player discards" doesnt leave you without cards as well.
skullclamp is nice
also consider these discard spells
unnerve
syphon mind
I am seriously considering BG (Nath? Savra? Sisters of Stone Death?) for Aluren. Those other green card suggestions are excellent as well. I was also considering UBG (Vorosh for now; the new UBG wedge general when it is released) for Aluren/Future Sight storm combos... but at that point, I'm diluting the theme to some extent.
For now I'll stick with mono-black. Instant-speed rats are obviously superior, but the rat ninja surprise effect might be good enough for now. If I find mono-black just can't compete in my play group, I'll definitely "upgrade" to BG or UBG.
In the current list, the mana ramp is primarily to get Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Memorial into play ASAP (probably first things I tutor for; expect to draw into a lot of rats). These give me indestructible flying rats with fear (via my commander) and haste... and vigilance... and trample... and protection. The monument's sacrifice cost is negligible considering my commander's ability. That protects them from wrath, so long as the artifacts aren't destroyed/exiled. Adding Vedalken Orrery for instant speed is pretty nice. Perhaps I need some artifact protection (Darksteel Forge?) or recursion (Moriok Scavenger? Myr Retriever? Or use Glissa as a BG commander?).
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll update the deck list as soon as I have a chance.
I might keep Throat Slitter, though. It only costs 3 mana via Ninjutsu, and it's reusable. If it isn't destroyed, it should connect often considering my commander gives all my rats fear. Plus it's a rat, so it helps my commander with token generating.
Regarding Deathgreeter, my thought was that I need enough life (preferably the most) for Crypt Rats' and Infected Vermin's "everybody takes damage" abilities (which, by the way, are other uses for big mana ramp). With Eldrazi Monument and my commander both making me sacrifice a rat, that's at least 2 life per turn, plus life gain whenever another player loses a creature - via Throat Slitter, Sheoldred, Grave Pact, or otherwise. And I don't see anybody wasting their precious removal on Deathgreeter...
I certainly need more card draw. Skullclamp will go in. How about something like Anvil of Bogardan? It's card draw for everybody but also punishes opponents via Megrim/Liliana's Caress. I'd run Yawgmoth's Bargain except it's a target for anyone running Mindslaver etc. Another idea is to run a few cards with madness (e.g. Call to the Netherworld, Big Game Hunter, Dark Withering, Gibbering Descent, Grave Scrabbler, Muck Drubb, Nightshade Assassin, etc). That way I can avoid the downside of my own "everybody discards" cards. Too bad there aren't any rats with madness...
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Win conditions:
1 - Damage through discard (Megrim, Liliana's Caress, Painful Quandary, Quest for the Nihil Stone, Bloodchief Ascension, Patron of the Nezumi, coupled with several cards that force players to discard or sacrifice creatures).
2 - Overwhelm them with rats (rat tokens + Swarm of Rats + Pestilence Rats + other creatures and using Grave Pact to keep their creature count low; generate lots of rat tokens (see combos below), and use Eldrazi Monument, Door of Destinies, Akroma's Memorial, or Coat of Arms to make my rats huge; more of a one-on-one win condition)
3 - Direct damage (Corrupt, Profane Command, Crypt Rats, Infected Vermin, Rite of Consumption, Exsanguinate, can all do big damage to one or all opponents, especially if Sorin Markov has his way first; Diseased Vermin can also build up some damage so long as it stays on the battlefield and can do combat damage each turn)
Combos:
1 - Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + two other rats in play = infinite rat tokens
1b - Add Akroma's Memorial for infinite combat damage (via infinite hasty rats)
2 - Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + two other rats in play + Black Market = infinite mana next turn
3 - Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + two other rats in play + Grave Pact = opponents sacrifice all their creatures
4 - Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + two other rats in play + Deathgreeter = infinite life gain
5 - Marrow-Gnawer + Thornbite Staff + two other rats in play + Skullclamp = draw two cards x infinity (well, until I choose to stop, or run out of mana or cards in my library)
Replace Thornbite Staff with Thousand-Year Elixir in any of the above for shorter versions of these combos.
With infinite mana from combo 2, use Crypt Rats or Infected Vermin or Exsanguinate to deal lethal damage to all players; requires that I have the most life in order to survive.
*edit*
Definitely like Sadistic Hypnotist. That will keep everyone's hands empty once I get some rat tokens on the battlefield.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
If so, toss in
Howlng Mine,
Temple Bell,
Font of Mythos, and
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
to help get those guarenteed discards...
| B Erebos, God of VampiresB | GYeva SmashG | RBosh ArtifactsR | GURAnimar +1 BeatsGUR | RBVial's Secret Hot SauceRB | UBRNekusar, Draw if you DareUBR | RGBDarigaaz'z DragonsRGB | GBSlimeFEETGB | UBOn-Hit LazavUB | URBrudiclad's Artificer InventionsUR | GUBMuldrotha's ElementalsGUB | WUGKestia's EnchantmentsWUG | GUTatyova - Draw, Land, Go!GU | WGArahbo's EquipmentWG | BUWVarina's ZOMBIE HORDESBUW | WLyra's Angelic SalvationW | WBChurch of TeysaWB | UAzami...WizardsU
These are all good ideas. I have had that problem with a casual discard deck (based on the DotP Lilana Vess deck). I might play-test this deck to see if it's a problem before adding cards that give my opponents more cards. It might not be necessary since I have cards that punish empty/top-decking hands; e.g. Painful Quandary, Quest for the Nihil Stone, and Stabwhisker the Odious (Nezumi Shortfang flipped after opponents are out of cards). I was going to include The Rack, but it's only good for 1-on-1 (becomes useless once the target player loses). But those suggestions could come in handy especially since I might run low on cards in hand.
Of those, I like Temple Bell and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea the most, since they give me control over when they trigger. I can imagine scenarios when I'd regret giving my opponents extra cards via Howling Mine or Font of Mythos - e.g. giving them the final pieces of their infinite combo...
I'm thinking of making two builds of this deck: one for multi-player that focuses more on the discard aspect (which is what I've been working on), and another for 1-on-1, 3-handed, or 2HG play. The latter will be an aggro deck featuring Coat of Arms and Door of Destinies to give 30+ Relentless Rats a power and toughness boost of up to 3n-2. Dolmen Gate can give my attacking rats some early protection so I can attack with little consequence and ninja in some surprises. Then I'll ramp up the mana to cast Thrumming Stone, Eldrazi Monument and Akroma's Monument... and then it's just a matter of overwhelming my opponents with sheer numbers. I'm sure there are better aggro builds than mono-black rats (red land destruction + multiple attack phases comes to mind), but it should be fun when I thrumming stone through most of my deck, then tap my commander to put ~ 100 rats on the battlefield, then attack with all of them! It will just be a matter of "sideboarding" in/out about 40 cards, removing most of the discard and direct damage components.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
And here is what the 1-on-1 build looks like right now (last updated 2011-05-19):
1 Marrow-Gnawer
Rats (34)
1 Crypt Rats
1 Infected Vermin
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
30 Relentless Rats
1 Throat Slitter
Supporting Creatures (2)
1 Ratcatcher
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Planeswalker (1)
1 Liliana Vess
Instant (1)
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries (8)
1 Call to the Netherworld
1 Corrupt
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Profane Command
1 Rite of Consumption
1 Black Market
1 Grave Pact
Artifacts (15)
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Cloak and Dagger
1 Coat of Arms
1 Door of Destinies
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Thrumming Stone
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Whispersilk Cloak
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Deserted Temple
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Phyrexian Tower
26 Swamp
1 Swarmyard
1 Urborg
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
The "sideboard" to turn the multi-player deck (as of today) into this one is included in the spoiler below.
1 Marrow-Gnawer
Rats (16)
1 Cairn Wanderer
1 Crypt Rats
1 Diseased Vermin
1 Infected Vermin
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Nezumi Bone-Reader
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
1 Pestilence Rats
1 Ravenous Rats
1 Rotting Rats
1 Skullsnatcher
1 Stronghold Rats
1 Swarm of Rats
1 Throat Slitter
Supporting creatures (9)
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Nightshade Assassin
1 Patron of the Nezumi
1 Ratcatcher
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Sangromancer
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Planeswalkers (2)
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
Instants (2)
1 Dark Withering
1 Vampiric Tutor
Sorceries (12)
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Call to the Netherworld
1 Corrupt
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Exsanguinate
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Profane Command
1 Rite of Consumption
1 Syphon Mind
1 Temporal Extortion
1 Black Market
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Conspiracy
1 Grave Pact
1 Liliana's Caress
1 Megrim
1 Painful Quandary
1 Quest for the Nihil Stone
1 Wound Reflection
Artifacts (13)
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Anvil of Bogardan
1 Cloak and Dagger
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Expedition Map
1 Geth's Grimoire
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Vedalken Orrery
Lands (36)
1 Bottomless Vault
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Crypt of Agadeem
1 Deserted Temple
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Leechridden Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
24 Swamp
1 Swarmyard
1 Urborg
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Coat of Arms
1 Door of Destinies
30 Relentless Rats
2 Swamp
1 Thrumming Stone
1 Whispersilk Cloak
To convert multiplayer to 1-on-1, need to:
- Anvil of Bogardan
- Avatar of Woe
- Beacon of Unrest
- Bloodchief Ascension
- Bottomless Pit
- Bottomless Vault
- Cairn Wanderer
- Conspiracy
- Dark Withering
- Diseased Vermin
- Exsanguinate
- Geth, Lord of the Vault
- Geth's Grimoire
- Leechridden Swamp
- Liliana's Caress
- Megrim
- Myojin of Night's Reach
- Nezumi Bone-Reader
- Nezumi Graverobber
- Nezumi Shortfang
- Nightshade Assassin
- Okiba-Gang Shinobi
- Painful Quandary
- Patron of the Nezumi
- Pestilence Rats
- Quest for the Nihil Stone
- Ravenous Rats
- Rotting Rats
- Sadistic Hypnotist
- Sangromancer
- Skullsnatcher
- Sorin Markov
- Stronghold Rats
- Swarm of Rats
- Syphon Mind
- Wound Reflection
+ Coat of Arms
+ Door of Destinies
+ 30x Relentless Rats
+ 2x Swamp
+ Thrumming Stone
+ Whispersilk Cloak
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
Something tells me the first thing I should tutor for is Thornbite Staff...
And I just discovered Swarmyard yesterday, so that's going in - for flavour if nothing else (and to protect my commander or other key rats).
I also decided that Darksteel Forge is too expensive at 9 despite my deck's dependence on some artifacts. Black doesn't have much in the way of artifact protection (seems to be a white ability); the only card I could find is Guardian Beast (from Arabian Nights), but at $40, I might have to pass.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)
1 - Swamp, Sol Ring
2 - Swamp, Demonic Tutor (to fetch Thrumming Stone)
3 - Swamp, Thrumming Stone
4 - Relentless Rats, thrumming until I decided to stop at 14 rats (in case of wrath; also drew another RR so ready to go again if necessary), making each a 15/15
- opponent blew up my Thrumming Stone on her turn 4
5 - Marrow Gnawer; attacked with 14x 15/15 Relentless Rats with fear. GG.
Usually my Thrumming Stone doesn't last long enough to use it. Ditto for Thornbite Staff (when I've attempted infinite rat tokens).
I've had a few more ideas for the (non-Relentless) discard rats version. Besides, it should be more fun to play than "tutor for Thrumming Stone, and when that doesn't work, try Thornbite Staff" deck. I'll play test and tweak it a bit before posting a revised version.
G Pumped Elvish Warriors G
GW Infectious Slivers WG
WU Milling Allies UW
Legacy:
UB Hex-Depths BU (combo-control)
G NO/Aggro Elves G
Commander:
WUBRG Sliver Army GRBUW (multiplayer)
WUG Rafiq the Exalted GUW (1-on-1 voltron)
GU Edric's Circus UG (multiplayer tokens)
B Relentless Rats B (multiplayer combo)
UB Sygg, the Punisher (in progress)BU
UBR Nicol Bolas, Elder Dragon Highlander RBU (in progress)