My third and probably final (little did I know) EDH deck. It took me a while to figure out how to use Gaddock Teeg properly. The original build was literally titled "Casual Mishmosh EDH Stax," but that's a theme best suited to Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. This one's much more fun!
This deck is built to exploit several engines/combos. Basically, I use Teeg as a tool to keep opponents from messing with said combos. Teeg also limits the number of huge bombs my opponents can play, letting me get the most out of effects like Heartbeat of Spring and Rites of Flourishing. Here is a brief outline of the engines I keep in mind when tutoring:
2.Squirrel Nest + Earthcraft
Who doesn't love getting overrun by an army of squirrels? Alarms start going off when people see Squirrel Nest, but really Earthcraft is a big problem, allowing you to sneak into infinite combos where there were none previously:
5.Yosei, the Morning Star + Genesis + sac outlet
I don't go for this one often, but Yosei has an intimidating board presence and it helps to be able to threaten to ruin someone's day if they mess with you. It's a strong deterrent.
7.Seedborn Muse + Winding Canyons
Now you're just like the blue mage at the table, but instead of EOT Think Twices, you're flashing in Sun Titans and Myojins in the middle of combat. Sneaky sneaky.
Why play cards Teeg shuts down?
I wouldn't recommend playing many noncreatures with CMC 4 or greater, but I think two in particular are good enough to warrant an inclusion: Mirari's Wake and Martial Coup. Wake is easily fetchable with Academy Rector and almost always wins the game if it isn't removed, and Martial Coup gives you a much-needed board sweeper and has excellent synergy with the rest of the deck.
I've tried Tooth and Nail and Glare of Subdual among other things, but they were dead to often or backfired too much to be worthwhile.
How does it perform?
While not typically the fastest or most inherently broken deck in the format, Teeg's house of cards has a lot of things going for it. Most of the combo pieces, like Reveillark and Earthcraft, are good in their own right and tend to overlap with other combos, ensuring you at least get good value out of the stuff you draw. Sacred Mesa and Martyr's Cause combine into a reusable fog machine, for example. You can't expect to win all the time, but even when you get hated out of the game, you're usually on the verge of doing something infinite or otherwise powerful. Traditional removal is also less effective on you because you have so much recursion. If you like to be the one asking the questions, then this is a goo deck for you.
I've played this deck in three side events at PTQs, Grand Prixs, and 5Ks and won all three. There are of course more factors here than deck power, but it's at least evidence that it gets things done.
The enchantment subtheme is there mainly because I needed a good draw engine and I had an unused enchantress deck sitting around playing the Magic: Gathering Dust game. It gets the job done, I guess. I would love to get some feedback because I'm sure I've missed some great cards!
The list has undergone some minor changes, but mainly I just wanted to share a new, interesting interaction I discovered recently while playing this deck.
In the middle of a recent EDH game, I had Saffi Eriksdotter and Deadwood Treefolk doing their thing sitting alongside an Earthcraft from earlier shenanigans that got disrupted. I drew a Martyr's Cause, then finally got up the guts to play the Heartbeat of Spring that had been sitting in my hand for a while. After a few turns of wasting time, I realized:
Now I was back where I started, but with two mana floating and a creature in my hand from my graveyard. With the sac outlet available, I had infinite mana and could play any creature in my hand, graveyard, or already in play infinite times. It was just cool how combo pieces I associated with Reveillark (Martyr's Cause) and the token subtheme (Earthcraft, Heartbeat of Spring) overlapped with another combo.
In short, synergy == super fun. I hope this was as interesting to you as it was to me.
My third thought is that Phyrexian Altar might be good here, though I couldn't tell you exactly why I think so now. There's probably multiple infinite mana combos with it and what you already have though. Ashnod's Altar would do the same thing (though only with colorless mana). Hell, I think that Altar of Dementia and Blasting Station would just give you some instant win combos as well. Note that everything I've suggested is a creature or costs under 4 mana.
My fourth thought is that I'm too tired now but I'll have some more thoughts later.
Hey, thanks for the suggestions! Those will definitely be useful.
1. I can't believe I missed Squirrel Nest. Auto-include.
2. Mighty Emergence would be sweet, but I already have the persist machine gun enabled by Juniper Order Ranger, which also works with the token generators.
3. At least one of the 'Altars could probably find a home in here. I don't want to add too many, so which one do you think would be best?
4. Argothian Enchantress was in here initially; I took it out becuase they cost $9 a pop and I got tired of proxying :D. Lightning Greaves was in here too, but I might throw that back in.
I had a chance to take a closer look at your list. I think my favorite thing about your deck is that there are plenty of cards I'd love to add from other colors (Murderous Redcap, Crypt Champion, Glen Elendra Archmage, better tutors...), but I think this deck is actually stronger as G/W, just because Gaddock is so powerful for protecting yourself. Your list is actually a lot tighter than I thought, which is good, but makes it trickier to add things. These are the cards that seem to me like they might possibly be cuttable:
Vigor (not bad, but probably needs something like Tooth and Nail or Natural Order to be really good. Most removal in EDH isn't burn, so doesn't actually protect Teeg very well.)
Aven Riftwatcher (I get that it can gain you infinite life in a Reveillark combo. However, I think the Kitchen Finks/Juniper Order Ranger (JOR) combo is a better way to do that, and I'm not sure you really need 2 life combos, considering that you can still lose to general damage. Maybe if you added Test of Endurance...)
Order of Whiteclay (this is probably solid enough utility with stuff like STE, Yavimaya Elder, and Saffi. doesn't seem to do all that much else though.)
Nemata, Grove Guardian (I suspect that 3 mana for a token is a bit much; you really want to paying 2. The 2nd ability isn't very helpful. I do think you want to have a creature that can make tokens--however, I think Ant Queen from M10 is most likely a better choice for this slot.)
Myojin of Cleansing Fire (I get that you want Wraths that get around Teeg, but this one just costs too much. I'm not sure you really need it anyways.)
Pentavus (eh. solid card, but seems pretty bad here, unless I'm missing something).
Sigil Captain (this unfortunately doesn't seem to open up any combos for you. I can appreciate that it helps the aggro tokens plan though. If you often win with sub-infinite amounts of tokens, this is probably a choice. I suspect that that's not a preferred win condition though, so this is probably unnecessary.)
Masked Admirers (solid, but slow and boring. gets you a little more mileage out of Survival of the Fittest, but still slow and boring, and Genesis does about the same thing. I think SotF will be just fine without this.)
Imperial Mask (Why? I really don't get this one. Can't even play it under Teeg. Solitary Confinement would be a much sexier/more powerful choice.)
Howling Mine (This is traditionally a bad card. It's maybe a little better here, but it can still help your opponents find answers to Teeg, and it has no real synergy with your deck. This slot would be much much better as Argothian Enchantress, which you should really find if you're serious about making the enchantress plan work. You need a kind of critical mass of enchantress effects to turn a deck from a pile of random enchantments into an awesome card-advantage machine--and Argothian Enchantress is probably the best of the bunch.)
Crop Rotation (card disadvantage, and you don't seem to have any lands that quite warrant this. Considering that you run Knight of the Reliquary too though, I could dig it--if you can find some more sexy lands to tutor up. Gaea's Cradle seems like it might be insane with all the tokens, and might be enough to justify Crop Rotation by itself.)
Altar of Bone (you don't usually need the single-sacrifice effect, so Eladamri's Call or Congregation at Dawn seem like they'd be better tutors. Natural Order might be a great way to find Woodfall Primus, Juniper Order Ranger, or Ant Queen/Nemata, though it unfortunately can't be cast under Teeg.)
Nostalgic Dreams (Not really getting it. I think I'd rather have Regrowth most of the time, and I'm not sure Regrowth is necessary. Leave it to Eternal Witness I think.)
Mobilization (As an enchantment token producer, this is fine, but Sacred Mesa is a lot better. Like I said, I really think you want your tokens to cost 2 mana. This is stronger than Nemata though, and should perhaps be kept.)
Planar Collapse (another Wrath that can be played under Gaddock, and even an enchantment. Sounds good, but I know from experience that this card really isn't as good as it looks. It's very hard to get this to go off when you want it to, and competent opponents can play around it well. Also, when you need to Wrath, you usually need to do it NOW...you can't afford to wait til your next upkeep, to hopefully get it off. If you really want another Wrath effect, I'd just go with Hallowed Burial, even if it can't be played under Teeg. He'll be off the board sometimes, and it's a really sexy card in EDH. Kudos on Retribution of the Meek by the way...I always considered it to be just fundamentally a bad card, but it actually makes a considerable amount of sense in this deck.)
Some of these I'm less sure of than others. I do admit that I haven't tested your deck at all yet, so these suggestions are just based in theory. I might also be missing an awesome interaction or two with some of these cards that makes them worth running. However, I'm fairly sure that Vigor, Myojin of Cleansing Fire, Pentavus, Sigil Captain, Masked Admirers, Imperial Mask, Howling Mine, Nostalgic Dreams, and Planar Collapse can go. Not bad. Nemata and Altar of Bone can go, but I want to replace them immediately with similar cards (Ant Queen and Eladamri's Call/Congregation at Dawn). Aven Riftwatcher and Crop Rotation should probably go as the deck is now, but I'm tempted to try to add cards to make them worthwhile (Test of Endurance and Gaea's Cradle, respectively). Mobilization I just don't know, and will need to test to see. Realistically though, you never want more than one token producer. You have a creature token producer, and a superior enchantment token producer, so you can tutor for them. Do you need another one? I'm thinking not, but maybe I'm wrong.
Here are some additional cards that have come to my mind. Some of them I'm mentioned already, but I'll put them all in one place for reference. Not all of them should go in the deck, but they should be on your radar, in case you detect a need for a particular kind of card. If you play with a 10 card sideboard, like the EDH bigwigs suggest (but no one ever actually does...), a lot of these would be excellent sideboard cards.
Squirrel Nest (This is kind of a "duh" one. You've already added it, so no more needs to be said.)
Mighty Emergence (I suggested this because mostly because it's an enchantment. However, you're certainly right that JOR fulfills the same role and is a hell of a lot more versatile. If you happen to find that you have Woodfall Primus and a sacrifice outlet a lot, but no JOR, Mighty Emergence would probably be a good addition. I agree that you probably don't need it otherwise though.)
Altar of Dementia/Blasting Station (I was thinking about it, and these cards should just flat-out win you the game so much of the time. You get a Reveillark combo, you win. You get a JOR combo, you win. You get infinite tokens, you win. They are also by themselves the sacrifice outlet part of these combos, which is necessary, and somewhat hard to come by in G/W. You only have Martyr's Cause and Mirror Entity for these jobs, and Mirror Entity only works with the Reveillark combo. These are both much better than Martyr's Cause, except for not being enchantments (and the enchantment distinction makes Martyr's Cause worth keeping). There's some question in my mind as to whether going off with a Reveillark combo or JOR combo by itself guarantees victory--I don't think it does, unless you're lucky enough to get the JOR-Primus combo. For that reason, I suspect that these should both be included. Combining sacrifice outlet and kill in the same card is quite strong.)
Phyrexian Altar (I was thinking about it, and you probably don't need this. In most of the situations it's good, Altar of Dementia or Blasting Station would just win you the game instead.)
Argothian Enchantress (I just took a glance at Ebay. There are a few auctions for multiple Argothian Enchantresses (or for the DCI promo foil version) for $0.99. Price shouldn't be an obstacle here. Find a buck, I say. She's perfect for this deck.)
Acidic Slime (Yeah, it's a Woodfall Primus for your Reveillark combo. Auto-include.)
Ant Queen (Like I already said, this seems to be a better Nemata.)
Lightning Greaves (I thought about it some more, and I'm leaning towards no. None of the other creatures in your deck really want Lightning Greaves, and your opponents only have so much targeted removal. Teeg is cheap enough that you can afford to replay him a lot anyways, and in a way it's actually better if people blow their removal on Teeg than on your combo creatures. I don't think there's a need for this card.)
Now for some new ideas. First, a bunch of cards that would be really really good here, except for the fact that they can't be played under Teeg. Exceptional cards that fail the Teeg test are still playable, so one or two of these might work their way in.
Tooth and Nail (The definitive green EDH card. It's pricy, but the chance to just go "RAWWR Woodfall Primus + Juniper Order Ranger" or Reveillark + Karmic Guide" probably means you should run this. Teeg gets knocked off the board sometimes, and if you ever resolve this, you should win.)
Elspeth, Knight Errant (Probably not, but you could use some planeswalkers here. You can protect them quite effectively. Elspeth goes well with Knight-Captain of Eos, and indestructibility is nice.)
Ajani Goldmane (Like I said, you could use some planeswalkers. Ajani is interesting because he plays quite nicely with your persisters and with token swarms. Seems kind of like a better Sigil Captain.)
Natural Order (Fantastic tutor, reasonably cheap. There are enough times where you could win with Woodfall Primus or JOR to make this maybe worth running. Doesn't do much for Reveillark combo though.)
Pattern of Rebirth (Like Natural Order, but probably even better. It's an enchantment and doesn't have the "green creature" limitation. It does require a sacrifice outlet for optimal use though.)
Three Dreams (Probably not, but this is huge card advantage, and you have a nice selection of auras. This is much better with Pattern of Rebirth, but grabbing some combination of Squirrel Nest, Prison Term, Flickering Ward, and Shield of the Oversoul isn't bad at all. Pattern of Rebirth pushes it over the top.)
Test of Endurance (You have two reasonably accessible infinite-life combos that I can see. If you keep both of those in, this would seem to be worthwhile. It's always nice to have more win-conditions. Come to think of it, if you add Animal Boneyard, you have another aura for Three Dreams, and another infinite life combo with Earthcraft. Interesting...)
Now the stuff that can be played under Teeg.
SKULLCLAMP (I don't know how we forgot this. Play it, don't ask questions.)
Academy Rector (Another one of those "duh" cards. It's really easy for us to sacrifice, and grabbing Priveledged Position, Glare of Subdual, Mirari's Wake, or a combo piece (Earthcraft, Squirrel Nest, Martyr's Cause...) straight to play is insanely good.)
Crucible of Worlds (There's a part of me that really wants to go land-combo with this deck as well. You already have Knight of the Reliquary and Crop Rotation, both of which are good with Crucible. You could easily toss in 3 fetchlands, which manafix and further support this. You should be running Strip Mine and Wasteland anyhow, with the land searchers you have, and Tranquil Thicket/Secluded Steppe would be good here too. These lands you should be running anyways, along with Gaea's Cradle. Toss in Exploration, which fits your enchantress theme very well anyways, and you've got something really powerful going. Crucible is not so much a combo piece (which is good, because it's hard to tutor for) as it is an always strong card that ties everything together.)
Harmonic Sliver (Good tutor target to have. I think it's usually going to be better than Qasali Pridemage, so you could make the swap. It would be nice to run both though.)
Chameleon Colossus (For some reason, this is what occurred to me when I thought of slivers. Pro-black is often relevant, and you can make tons of mana sometimes, so this might be worthwhile. Probably not enough synergy though.)
Eladamri's Call/Congregation at Dawn (Both are really good creature tutors. Eladamri's Call should almost certainly be in your deck; Congregation at Dawn most likely should be too. Tutoring up Reveillark/Karmic Guide/Mirror Entity sounds pretty saucy.)
Idyllic Tutor (Need another enchantment tutor? I hate that this costs 3, but it's probably more than good enough here, especially considering how cheap/easy it is to assemble Squirrelcraft.)
Glory (Probably not, but plays nice with Survival of the Fittest/sacrifice effects and does a good job of protecting Gaddock and the rest of the gang.
Umezawa's Jitte/Sword of Fire and Ice/Sword of Light and Shadow (I kind of hate myself for suggesting these, but backup plans are good, and these cards sometimes manage to win games pretty much single-handedly. A general rule of thumb is that if you run a lot of creatures you should play Jitte, and you certainly run a lot of creatures. These equipment help to fill a kind of removal-void in your deck, which might otherwise be a weakness. They're all fantastic for card advantage too. The Swords are often good for protecting Teeg and making him a threat, and SoLaS even gives your combo pieces some more resiliency. These are all really good fits.)
Null Rod (This is one of those "probably not" cards, but it shuts down a lot of the scariest decks in the format almost single-handedly, but barely hurts you at all. Decks like Arcum, Sharuum, Azami (and Karn, lol) roll over and die to Null Rod, and any deck that relies heavily on artifact mana tends to be severely hindered. Most decks I build are hurt too badly themselves by Null Rod to include it, but it ought to be really good for you. I find it very on-theme with Teeg. It is worth noting though that adding the above equipment, along with Altar of Dementia and Blasting Station, would decrease Null Rod's worth for you somewhat. Might still be worthwhile though.)
And now some enchantments...
Exploration (Because I just thought of it, and it's good enough on it's own here. You have quite a high land count anyways.)
Seal of Cleansing/Aura of Silence (Seals of Primordium #2 and #3. Aura of Silence may well be better than Seal of Primordium anyways. It'll take some testing to see how many of these effects you need, but the enchantress engine actually makes you want to run a ton of these things.)
Utopia Sprawl (Boring, but cheap enchantments are good here, and this is basically Fertile Ground #2. Wild Growth wouldn't be bad either. You run enough lands that you could easily afford to switch one or two to these. You do have to watch your Forest count though.)
Solitary Confinement (I'm not certain that there's a need for this, but it's an insanely powerful lock card. With a couple enchantresses or Skullclamp, you can keep it going for a long time if necessary. With Genesis, you can keep it going FOREVER. With Priviledged Position, you're nigh-invincible, at least until you run out of cards. It can probably buy you at least a few turns to go off in a pinch. There are probably some decks out there that simply cannot beat Solitary Confinement + Genesis either. This could be one of those cards that's awkward sometimes, but wins you games.)
Your lands need some adjusting too, but I'll comment on that later.
Well, I've talked my own ear off. Told you I'd have some more thoughts later :glee:. Your deck really intrigues me, so I had a lot of ideas, and I'll probably have more later. Hopefully I've given you a lot to think about.
First off, thank you so much for your input! Having another player's perspective on a deck is always valuable.
Anyway, on to the particular card choices:
Vigor -- I'm on the fence about this guy anyway. Sometimes it's nice to have a decent body that makes my tokens respecatble in combat, but other times it's just random. He is on the candidate list for removal. Aven Riftwatcher -- only in there because sometimes I would get the Lark combo and realize I couldn't really go infinite with anything. I'm finding Aven Riftwatcher is pretty weak in EDH especially. Order of Whiteclay -- I have four of these guys that were just begging me to use them. There may be better choices, but so far they've performed quite nicely. Nemata, Grove Guardian -- He is simply the best walking token-spitter-outer before Ant Queen. This will be a one-for-one replacement. Myojin of Cleansing Fire -- Just seemed natural for a white EDH deck; I'll pay attention to how often it's actually useful from now on. Pentavus -- Another card I had sitting around that I wanted to work in. He's been great offensively, defensively, and comboinsively (with Earthcraft and Lark), but it may be time for an overhaul. Sigil Captain -- etc. etc. should probably not be here, as it's pretty bad when I already have a Mirari's Wake or something. He does randomly win with tokens, though. Masked Admirers -- Meh, pretty average card. Yet another candidate for replacement. Imperial Mask -- I really don't like this card in this deck and I had kind of forgotten about it. Thanks. Howling Mine -- I despereately needed some card draw, and this helps keep up foreign relations that are usually sabotaged by Gaddock Teeg and threat of combo. Crop Rotation -- It's a great card, but I don't have any Gaea's Cradles. I'll probably drop it and simplify my land base at the same time. Altar of Bone -- Just working with what I've got, and I didn't have any Eladamri's Calls ATM. I'll talk more about Congregation at Dawn in a minute. Nostalgic Dreams -- Seemed good to have some mass recursion and has served me well just about every time I've played it. It sticks out like a sore thumb on paper, but revamping your hand later in the game is just too good to pass up. Mobilization -- Sacred Mesa number 2 is all this is. I like a bit of redundancy in highlander formats, that's all =) Planar Collapse -- It's in for the reasons you said. It's not as good as a flat-out Wrath, but it gets the job done (plus, I actually own one!)
Now, more on the cards you suggested:
Squirrel Nest -- Big stupid on my part. Added. Mighty Emergence -- Agreed with what you just said; probably won't add it because it's so narrow and only improves a backup combo, anyway. Altar of Dementia -- This will fit right in. In the odd case of facing a deck with Gaea's Blessing or something, it can also fill my graveyard with tools and recursion targets. Argothian Enchantress -- If I can snag one for cheap, it'll go in. Acidic Slime -- Man, that card is cool. Ant Queen -- I hope it has good art, 'cause I'm going to be seeing it a lot. Lighting Greaves -- Still not sure. In the meantime, my Nicol Bolas EDH sure could use some fast feet.
As for the other cards, I'll talk about the ones I DEFINITELY want: Skullclamp -- Is spectacular and got lost somewhere in previous deck revisions. It'll fit right in. Congregation at Dawn -- Same story as Skullclamp and was actually one of the first cards that came to mind when putting together a G/W deck. It'll go in immediately. Tooth and Nail -- I never really considered it due to Teeg's restriction, but it might have a place. Academy Rector -- Very good card and gives me link in the chain to get from (Creature Tutor Spell) --> (Enchantment) Solitary Confinement -- Is actually in the deck and I don't know why it's not on this online list. Hm.
I have a bit more to say, but I have to get off the computer for just a bit. Again, I really appreciate the help you're providing! I'll check this thread again tomorrow.
Thanks!
This deck has undergone some additional significant changes (namely, I acquired some of the cards Khymera and I discussed), so here's an updated list and a report on how the deck is working IRL.
So I've got to play more than a few games with my old playgroup, and Teeg poses a FAR bigger problem than I originally imagined. Some decks almost shut down entirely with Teeg on the field. Several generals (like Niv-Mizzet) can trump Teeg, but most of the time people just get screwed over. I'm very pleased with the results; in fact, it's almost too competitive for my liking. A few random facts:
1. Survial of the Fittest is broken and a half
2. Every time I get infinite tokens with Sacred Mesa, I lose (3 or 4 times, now)
3. No one has stopped the Lark combo when I get it
4. I can't find my Privileged Position
Man, this deck just keeps turning up combos that I didn't know existed. Here are two that have come up in the past week or two:
Saffi Eriksdotter, Twilight Shepherd, Altar of Dementia, Earthcraft:
Infinite mill at sorcery speed. I didn't even know Twilight Shepherd could do that, until one of my friends pointed it out in the middle of a game. His loss, I guess
Pentavus, Earthcraft, a land that taps for 3 or more mana:
Infinite mana. If the land only taps for two, then you can have creatures coming into play/leaving play infinite times, in case that matters.
Conclusions: Earthcraft is more ridiculous than I had originially thought.
More updates. I cut the stuff that was too narrow and added some more removal and enchantments.
-1 Masked Admirers -- Gah, this is so mediocre. How did I miss this in previous revisions? (you were right, Khymera)
-1 Shield of the Oversoul -- Doesn't do anything. It's not even good protection for Teeg.
-1 Glare of Subdual -- Sometimes works, usually doesn't.
-1 Howling Mine -- I like this, but replaced with Fecundity.
-1 Planar Collapse -- Meh. Rarely does this go off.
-1 Kjeldoran Outpost -- The loss of tempo hurts, and I don't actually own one anyway.
-1 Selesnya Sanctuary -- It's always a Capsize magnet. Forget that.
-1 Plains -- to make room for a nonbasic.
-1 Forest -- to make room for an enchantment, since I don't really have mana issues.
+1 Yosei, the Morning Star -- Great creature, lets me lock people with Genesis and other shenanigans.
+1 Journey to Nowhere -- Solid spot removal that usually draws a card or two.
+1 Fecundity -- We'll see how this goes, but I think it's gonna be great.
+1 Karmic Justice -- Freaking amazing. I love this card.
+1 Swords to Plowshares -- More necessary spot removal. Always happy to have it.
+1 Null Rod -- Screws me over sometimes, but screws other people more.
+1 Brushland -- Needed some more mana fixing.
+1 Horizon Canopy -- Great card, this one. The card draw is relevant, too.
+1 Graypelt Refuge -- Still more fixing.
I also added two cards (Holistic Wisdom and City of Solitude) since the deck was reduced to 98 cards somewhere along the way. I'm not entirely sold on either, but they're in for now.
Note that Mobilization is still in over Luminarch Ascension, because the synergy with Skullclamp is too good to ignore. That, and Mobilization is a great late-game topdeck, whereas the Ascension won't do anything immediately except draw the hate.
I've probably spent more time tweaking this deck than any of my others, and I'm immensely pleased with how it turned out. It's incredibly fun to play, even though it's still a little too competitive for my liking. It thrives best in a multiplayer environment, but still wins its fair share of games in a 1-on-1 setting. I'm still open to suggestions and feedback, if anyone is interested!
Thanks for reading!
EDIT: The other possible candidates for inclusion:
1. Aven Mindcensor -- Seems like it could just wreck people. I can vouch that Mindlock Orb is effective in other decks.
2. Overgrowth -- Mana accel is good, and it would make Eartcraft that much better. I could cut one of the more questionable enchantments.
3. Exploration -- The $15 price tag is disheartening. Maybe I can trade for one.
Posts Merged. In the future, don't quadruple post please. — DC
Hey d0su, I've been analyzing your deck for a while now and I must say that I love it. It looks fun to play and for that reason, I'm building a very similar deck at the moment.
I would like to ask you, how doesMartial Coup work out for you? Is it worth keeping in the deck as opposed to spells such as *** if you can't play either with Teeg out?
Also I would like to suggest a few cards although your list is pretty tight, so I am honestly unsure as to what you could remove for these. Just some food for thought I guess
Phantom Nishoba is a powerful creature that can be retrieved by Lark if your other plans are not going so well. Rancor is a recurring aura that can have your enchantress's spit out cards if anything. Replenish seems as though it could be a game winner if people play cards such as Tempest of Light and/or Cleanfall. Having all your enchantments come in after the world blows up can really throw people off! Femeref Enchantress is another card engine. With help from Aura Shards, Rancor, and Aura of Silence, she can generate quite a bit of advantage if you need any more of that. Harmonize seems as though it would help you dig through your deck to acquire those combo pieces quicker. Greater Auramancy is another cover for your enchantments.
Lastly, I also wanted to know how Pentavus was working out for you. Is he worth the spot, and how exactly do you use him?
EDIT: I think that Overgrowth should be added in place of Holistic Wisdom, unless of course that card has proven valuable to you. Exploration does not warrant inclusion imo. I could be wrong of course because I'm sure that you get many extra lands with the enchantresses, then again you do have Rites of Flourishing for that as well.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Hey man, thanks for the input! I'm glad to hear you like it; it certainly is a blast to play.
Martial Coup has almost always delivered for me. I've considered spells such as Wrath of God and Harmonize, but they just generally don't perform as well in this deck. My reasoning is this: if these spells are going to be stuck in your hand sometimes thanks to Teeg, you'll want them to be potentially powerful and swingy enough to warrant the slot. Martial Coup has won a couple games almost by itself, too, including one in the current EDH MWS tournament. I'm going to include a Tooth and Nail for the same reason, probably in place of Twilight Shepherd, Yosei, the Morning Star, or Knight-Captain of Eos.
Of the other suggestions, I like Greater Auramancy the most. I have one laying around here somewhere, so I'll try to squeeze it in. Oh, and you're absolutely right about Overgrowth and Holistic Wisdom; those will be swapped ASAP. Replenish is cool, too... I'm going to have to think on that one.
I'm pretty satisfied with Pentavus. He's not an absolute showstopper or anything, but he pulls his weight. I've used him as a recurring token generator with Genesis when I had my hand discarded, I've beat down with Pentavites pumped up by Mirari's Wake and Juniper Order Ranger, and I've even used him to make infinite mana with Earthcraft and Overgrowth-effects. As of recently, he can be a card-draw engine with Fecundity, though I haven't had an opportunity to try that out. He's also one of the few guys in the deck that can chump fliers, and that's nice too. Actually, Yosei, the Morning Star is in more danger of getting cut than Pentavus, and that's saying something.
Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions. Keep me posted on the deck you're making, too!
I've always liked this deck. I ran into some problems when I was testing it though...many of the combos, like all the Juniper Order Ranger shenanigans, were big enough that I couldn't really assemble them, and most of the pieces were utterly useless by themselves. The enchantress engine also just didn't work for me: both the enchantress and the enchantment counts are too low to really make it tick. There were so many awkward hands full of enchantments with no enchantresses, or, even worse, the hands with 2 enchantresses and no enchantments. Even when you do get an enchantress and enchantments, it's generally not very strong--the enchantment density is low enough that a single enchantress is lucky to draw you 2-3 cards over the course of the game. It's just...not good enough.
Don't get me wrong, I still won a lot...but usually off of the awesome power of Teeg, with random good creatures to speed things up. I still liked the idea of using Teeg to protect combos, but I decided to streamline the combos, and lose the underperforming enchantress subtheme. I thought you might be interested in what I came up with, though it's still a work in progress. This is my latest list.
I think all the choices should be fairly self-explanatory--I have protection for Teeg, combos, tutors, removal, acceleration, and that's about it. Note that every card in my deck is playable under Teeg, which is just the way I like it. My primary combos are Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest, Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience, Reveillark/Acidic Slime loops, and Yosei, the Morning Star loops. Beatdown with Teeg + equipment is quite viable too.
Other cards that I've been tinkering with include:
Brown Ouphe:
I stumbled upon this card because he's one of the only answers to Oblivion Stone, the only mass removal spell that can actually touch this deck. He's actually surprisingly useful in many other random situations, but I found I usually didn't need him.
Loaming Shaman:
Graveyard hate on a stick. Sometimes I wish I had access to this, but usually Teeg can keep most combos in check.
Voidstone Gargoyle:
For scary generals, or for when there's only one card that could wreck you. I'd like to fit this back in.
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant:
Really powerful effect with often narrow applications. I never see burn, but games sometimes turn into creature wars when Teeg is on the table with protection...Rune-Tail helps you win creature wars.
Blazing Archon:
The definitive way to win creature wars. It's just really expensive. I'm using Peacekeeper as a ghetto-Blazing Archon, just sticking around long enough for me to combo off. I'd like to have this option too though.
Karmic Justice:
More anti-sweeper tech, probably unnecessary.
Dense Foliage:
Extremely powerful effect, but I didn't like how it shut off my own removal and my Guilty Doll combo.
I know my list is pretty different from your deck, but it evolved from your deck, and I think it's strong. At the least, I'm sure there are a lot of cards here for you to consider. Have you had the same kind of problems I did with assembling your combos and getting an enchantress engine rolling? I think this style of deck is a bit more consistent, and my combos are more concise.
Man, that list looks awesome, Khymera. I can understand how the Enchantress subtheme could be subpar, especially in a 1-on-1 setting. It's been working out just fine for me in multiplayer, though, which is what this deck was built for. They don't give the crazy CA chains like a streamlined 60-card deck will, but they're card draw that I desperately needed when building the deck because G/ isn't exactly known for loads of library manipulation. Even if Verduran Enchantress reads:
1GG
Sorcery
Draw some cards. "Pitch me to Survival! Come on, do it!"
...then I'm content. To be fair, I guess you could build the deck in such a way that you don't need to actually draw cards every often. Oh well... I had 'em, so I used 'em.
I'm surprised that you don't like Juniper Order Ranger, though. While the dedicated combo (Ranger + Woodfall Primus + sac outlet) doesn't happen often, he's absolutely great with tokens and sometimes gets arbitrarily large with Lark. Even the other pieces of the combo (Primus, Altar of Dementia, and Martyr's Cause) are almost always useful to have IMO, especially Altar. Milling yourself is so tech with this deck
As far as your list goes, Peacekeeper is a freaking amazing card I've been toying around with. I'm actually running it in my "slightly more 1-on-1 focused" MWS version in the current EDH tournament, and it's been paying off. Idyllic Tutor is also worth considering, as it's usually 3 mana "go get Survival of the Fittest," I guess. Reya Dawnbringer seems like the nuts in a deck full of recursion. Lastly, equipment seems like a good idea. In multiplayer, I never, ever, ever, EVER attack with Teeg, because I've concluded that "Teeg beats don't matter" for my deck. I've kept track of it in countless games, and in the end, I either combo out, attack with so many tokens/big creatures that the early damage didn't matter, or I lose. Equipment could change that, although the hefty price tags that on some them are a little daunting.
However, I will pass on the Stuffy Doll combos, because they're really overdone in my meta. They do fit the deck like a glove, though.
As for the cards you listed, here are some thoughts on some of them: Loaming Shaman -- Top-notch stuff. It's been really useful in a variety of situations. I'd recommend it. Voidstone Gargoyle -- Not that great in multiplayer; it just makes me look like a douchebag (I mean, even more so) Karmic Justice -- I think it's the best addition since Altar of Dementia. Either people leave me alone, or I get to make an example of the guy that hosed my enchantments. Win-win. Iona, Shield of Emeria -- I've been bouncing this idea off some of my friends. I guess I'd cut something like Myojin? Probably not. Expedition Map -- If you've got Gaea's Cradle, definitely. I don't, so I won't.
In conclusion I think that overall, your deck > my deck. I don't want to cut some of my good-but-not-great card choices just yet, because those are the cards I wanted to use in an EDH deck from the get-go. That, and I have an unreasonable attachment to drawing cards. Thanks for all your input, man; at least half of the revisions (read: improvements) I've made are a direct result of our conversations.
I am happy to see that people are taking the Teeg combo idea and running with it. How are you enjoying your deck? And for that matter, how is your playgroup enjoying it?
Then again, I could see them being prone to people's Wastelands and Strip Mines...
Regardless, I would be interested to know your opinion on this.
...Never mind, just remembered Earthcraft only untaps basics...
EDIT: Also, how has Aven Mincensor been working out for you? I find it to be an extremely useful creature but have been thinking of possibly replacing it with Knight of the Reliquary. I would just like to know how often the Mincensor disrupts your opponents in the games you have played so as to warrant a spot over the Knight.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Solitary Confinement is getting cut because it hasn't won me a single game yet. It was great in my Zur deck when I could just tutor it up at will, but in this deck I usually want to use my Enlightened Tutor on Survival of the Fittest or Earthcraft. Rites of Flourishing doesn't do a whole lot, either, and the deck has a lot less "group hug" feel to it than it did originally -- now my playgroup knows enough to see Heartbeat of Spring as a threat instead of a blessing when it's played by Gaddock Teeg. G/ is short on card draw, though... what should I do? And what should I add in it's place?
As far as the Fertile Ground effects go, I think they're absolute gold because of Earthcraft, like you said. Why just yesterday Pentavus and Earthcraft did their thing and got me infinite mana because of Overgrowth or some nonsense. Also, just having some mana accel is really nice. While it is sort of LD bait, I've found that people usually save their Strip Mines for bigger problems, like Academy Ruins and Cabal Coffers and the like.
Aven Mindcensor has been surprisingly lackluster for me, but then again I've only seen it twice since I added it to the list, so I can't tell for certain yet. However, one of my friends recently built a nasty Captain Sisay deck that would probably HATE to see me play Aven Mindcensor, so it stays in for the time being. Knight of the Reliquary is a great add, though, and it was in the very early builds of this list (which had stuff like Kor Haven and Maze of Ith I could go fetch). If I ever get my hands on a Gaea's Cradle, Knight of the Reliquary will certainly find a home in here again.
I've been seriously thinking about dropping Null Rod. It's an absolute showstopper against some decks that rely on artifact mana, but it also shuts down my Skullclamp, Sensei's Divining Top, Altar of Dementia, and Pentavus -- those are pretty important cards. I just don't know. Thoughts?
I say drop the Null Rod. It just feels like one of those niche cards that does something sometimes, and sometimes that something is hindering your game plan (that was a really weird sounding sentence).
How about adding in Mind's Eye as a means of getting more card draw? I know it sucks that it gets blocked by Teeg, but I'm sure he gets hated on so much so as to allow you to sneak in a few fat spells here and there.
The new Novablast Wurm seems like it would like to make it into your deck.
On that same point, do you usually play Teeg in multiplayer or in duels? I am under the impression that you would get hated on very extensively for playing him in a multiplayer game, possibly even more so than U/B generals.
As I would like a deck to be playable in both environments, I was thinking of switching to a friendlier G/W general if this is the case. Could you please enlighten me on this matter?
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
On that same point, do you usually play Teeg in multiplayer or in duels? I am under the impression that you would get hated on very extensively for playing him in a multiplayer game, possibly even more so than U/B generals.
As I would like a deck to be playable in both environments, I was thinking of switching to a friendlier G/W general if this is the case. Could you please enlighten me on this matter
Believe it or not, I actually play in multiplayer games, primarily. You're right about Teeg causing the mega angries, but that doesn't make him any less good. While he absolutely shuts down some decks (and for the sake of the game I'll be a bit more conservative about playing him then), I daresay a lot of people are occasionally thankful for Teeg's presence on the board. When one player gets a nuts draw with Sol Ring and Grim Monolith, Teeg is there to slow things down a bit while everyone else catches up. Also, by this point the other players' decks in our playgroup are potent enough to take some of the attention off of Teeg, at least for a little while.
I also play this deck 1-v-1 in Clem's MWS tournaments. I switch things up a lot (like adding more cheap removal and putting fetches and Savannah in the manabase), but the vast majority of the deck is identical to my RL multiplayer list. In short, you can make this deck for multiplayer OR duels. Infinite combos are quite scalable
If you wanted a friendlier general, I hear good things about Captain Sisay. Not that she isn't good (she's quite amazing, actually), but you can build your deck to any degree of competitiveness you want. If you want to keep the core of this deck with graveyard shenanigans and Lark combo, then Saffi Eriksdotter would be a fine choice that doesn't draw as much hate right away but might actually make comboing easier. Rhys the Redeemed might also be good if you want to focus on the token strategy, though I think he's a little overdone as a general.
I'm pondering adding Sylvan Library. I'll probably wait until I actually own some fetchlands I can add for the shuffle effects, but I can see it being really powerful in the future. Mind's Eye probably won't make the cut, though. I do have to address the issue of library manipulation, though, so here's what I did:
-1 Null Rod
-1 Tooth and Nail
+1 Idyllic Tutor
+1 Academy Rector
So Null Rod is out in the interest of all parties involved, and Tooth and Nail just sits in my hand half the time and gets Knowledge Exploitationed the other half of the time. Idyllic Tutor and Academy Rector (I FINALLY traded for one) give the deck some more tutoring and can do several things:
1. Tutor up the last piece of an infinite combo (the meanest choice)
2. Go get Survival of the Fittest and start a Genesis card advantage train
3. Rector can bring out a random card like Mirari's Wake or City of Solitude underneath Teeg (or post-Wrath) to further whatever game plan you want
I'm not sure on Novablast Wurm... it just seems like Myojin of Cleansing Fire does the same job without having to wait a whole round to attack. Does that sound reasonable?
One last thing before I go: Fecundity rocks. The other creature decks love you for playing it and it digs you into the stuff you need. I got infinite mana with Pentavus, Earthcraft (courtesy of the new Idyllic Tutor!), and Overgrowth yesterday but I didn't have anything to sink my mana into. Then I realized I had Fecundity in play and I just drew my deck and won on the spot. It was totally random and totally awesome.
I built/proxied your first deck list. I really like it and find it to be a fun deck. A card I didn't see mentioned here was Luminarch Ascension. I played a Emperor EDH game and won that game by myself. Seedborn Muse + Luminarch Ascension = Game. I definitely am going to switch stuff around and what not but I think Gaddock Teeg is not only fun but competitive.
I built/proxied your first deck list. I really like it and find it to be a fun deck. A card I didn't see mentioned here was Luminarch Ascension. I played a Emperor EDH game and won that game by myself. Seedborn Muse + Luminarch Ascension = Game. I definitely am going to switch stuff around and what not but I think Gaddock Teeg is not only fun but competitive.
Hey, glad to hear you're enjoying it! I like playing it, too... just seeing what kind of shenanigans you can do with stuff like Deadwood Treefolk and Earthcraft is a blast! You're right about the competitive bit, too -- you can just randomly pull out wins from nowhere when you assemble a combo. Speaking of which, sometimes I think it's fun to play an entire game and refuse to go infinite. This deck has all the recursion and card advantage it needs to win an attrition war, assuming you don't get hit by Tormod's Crypt more than once.
I'm undecided on Luminarch Ascension. When it was first spoiled, I was super excited about it -- I was going use it to replace Mobilization ASAP. But then, Mobilization is just so good in other ways, because it's a much better topdeck and the tokens are Skullclamp-able. What did you take out for the Ascension? I'd like to try it out!
I took out Martyrs Cause. I knew it would be a card I didn't care for in my meta. A lot of decks just sit there and do stuff until an alternate win con to general damage is being played. I am going to mess around with the deck a bit more. I think sylvan library definitely goes in the deck. Before I start making adjustments though I want to get more cards so I can take out the proxies.
I took out Martyrs Cause. I knew it would be a card I didn't care for in my meta. A lot of decks just sit there and do stuff until an alternate win con to general damage is being played. I am going to mess around with the deck a bit more. I think sylvan library definitely goes in the deck. Before I start making adjustments though I want to get more cards so I can take out the proxies.
You took out Martyr's Cause? That's interesting... I guess I can see it being bad in certain metas, but it was included mainly because it was the only enchantment sac outlet in G/W. Maybe Mirror Entity and Altar of Dementia are enough by themselves, though.
We have a Uril, the Miststalker player and other random decks that like to swing with huge fatties, though, so the Cause stays in my deck for the time being. I'll probably take out Rites of Flourishing first and see how it goes.
Rites of Flourishing is boss in this deck though. It also makes every other player at the table happy and not want to target you because of the mass card advantage they get too!!! Lol.
We don't really have any aggro decks here. The Generals at our shop are:
The sliver decks don't really play. When they do everyone kind of works together against them if they start to get out of control. Every other deck tries to take a control approach.
As the Last of the Control Players, we are all part of a sacred brotherhood; a band of brothers who would rather die on their knees tapping islands and giving permission than live on our feet cascading into Blightning.
I LOVE this list! I've got a multiplayer teeg deck of my own going, and I had a similar idea of protecting my combos like this, but tbh I've never had a solid background in white/green so I had a lot of holes in my plot. Kudos to you d0su for an original Teeg that's also competitive.
Seems like Hermit Druid has a place in this deck. You make good use of your graveyard and quickly. Also Sun Titan is pretty saucy but might not fit too well in this deck.
Seems like Hermit Druid has a place in this deck. You make good use of your graveyard and quickly. Also Sun Titan is pretty saucy but might not fit too well in this deck.
It's been a good long while since I've updated this thread, so thank you sterces48 for bumping it to my attention!
So what did M11 bring us? Fauna Shaman seemed like an obvious include, so it makes the cut immediately. I've mentioned before that Survival of the Fittest is the best card in the deck, and while Fauna Shaman isn't quite as bonkers as its predecessor, it is still plenty good enough. Also, while not as much of an auto-include as Fauna Shaman, Sun Titan is amazing and very on-theme with the deck. At the very least, it will return something like Yavimaya Elder or a random enchantment; at most, you can loop it with Saffi Eriksdotter or Eternal Witness until the cows come home. He's a beast. A beast with bad artwork.
Hermit Druid's effect is powerful, but I don't think this is the deck for him. We need a decent number of basics for two main reasons:
1. Earthcraft
2. Resiliency to common multiplayer land hate (Blood Moon, Destructive Flow, Back to Basics, etc.)
Unless Hermit Druid can dump huge chunks of our library into our graveyard, he probably isn't worthwhile. This deck could be built in such a way as to take advantage of the Druid, but it would take a complete manabase overhaul and I don't have the money to do a good job just yet. Give it a shot, though, and let us know the results!
Playtesting a version of this deck for 1v1, I think there are some older goodies that I think could warrant an inclusion, as well: Sylvan Library -- is crazy good. Will definitely find room for it. Linvala, Keeper of Silence -- very useful, shuts down a lot of problematic stuff Peacekeeper -- great in 1v1; not sure if it's needed in multiplayer (politics play a BIG role in survival) Arashi, the Sky Asunder -- this deck is just a little soft to a flying army. If that gets popular, Arashi will be my go-to card of choice. Life from the Loam -- absolutely spectacular, but requires fetchlands and cycling lands. I might try to pull off a budget version with Terramorphic Expanses and such.
And now, for something really cute: I think I'm going to test Dryad Arbor in here. Sometimes I just really need one extra land, but all my tutors in hand only grab creatures. Picture this scenario, which came up (again) yesterday: I have a 2-land opener with Worldly Tutor and Yavimaya Elder. One of my opponents ramps up with Sol Ring or another mana artifact and will have access to 4 or more mana earlier than usual. Tutoring up Sakura-Tribe Elder always feels so lackluster and costs me precious early turns that I could spend playing Teeg. Dryad Arbor would give me a good, natural-feeling tutor target and let me hit my land drop. Late-game, Dryad Arbor gets Skullclamped with the best of them and counts for stuff like Aura Shards. When I add Life from the Loam, it gives me a great (and super-cute) way to recur a body to pitch to Fauna Shaman or something. Unfortunately, Dryad Arbor "comes into play tapped" and dies to all kinds of collateral damage, but once I get rolling I don't really care about pinpoint land removal. I think the Arbor's synergies at least make it break even for multiplayer (for 1v1, it would be terrible, turning your opponent's spot removal into efficient Stone Rains).
So what do we cut for all this stuff? Karmic Justice -- my playgroup has moved away from mass enchantment destruction, and I'm not as reliant on enchantments as I used to be. Woodfall Primus -- the guy is just so slow. Having a huge body is nice, but Sun Titan fills that role well. Unfortunately, the combo with Juniper Order Ranger is now gone, but we have Sun Titan combos to make up for it. Juniper Order Ranger -- was very good to me, but it felt like a "win more" card. It's kind of a dead draw unless you already have good token production or a piece of the combo. Nantuko Monastery -- Taps for colorless. Simply never relevant. Ever. Dryad Arbor, on the other hand, might be.
As far as the enchantresses go, I will say this: After we make these cuts, they are probably the weakest cards in the deck. However, that doesn't mean that they are bad -- every time I want to throw them away, I get Flickering Ward or something online and win because of it. Combined with the nostalgic fact that this deck is all that is left of my old enchantress deck, they're here to stay -- for now.
+ Sylvan Library
+ Fauna Shaman
+ Sun Titan
+ Dryad Arbor
- Karmic Justice
- Woodfall Primus
- Juniper Order Ranger
- Nantuko Monastery
Life from the Loam pending until I get fetchlands.
Now let me answer some questions, if they are still pertinent after all these months:
Quote from Xoramung »
why altar of bone and not Eladamri's Call?
Eladamri's Call is about as close as you can get to "strictly better." Altar of Bone has paid off a lot for me in the past (sac Yavimaya Elder with no loss of tempo, sac Academy Rector when no one will kill it, etc.), but Eladamri's Call is probably just the stronger choice.
Quote from RedPanda »
I LOVE this list! I've got a multiplayer teeg deck of my own going, and I had a similar idea of protecting my combos like this, but tbh I've never had a solid background in white/green so I had a lot of holes in my plot. Kudos to you d0su for an original Teeg that's also competitive.
Why thank you so much! I've mentioned before that this deck is my pride and joy when it comes to deckbuilding, and that still holds true today. It's my favorite deck to play, as well! While Khymera hyper-tunes his list for 1v1 play, I'm going to stick to my guns and optimize this bad boy for multiplayer. I'm just glad to see that people are taking the idea and running with it!
To whoever is reading this: if you get the chance, proxy this deck up and let me know how it plays. I think we've got this engine running smoothly, but the more ideas, the better!
and probably final(little did I know) EDH deck. It took me a while to figure out how to use Gaddock Teeg properly. The original build was literally titled "Casual Mishmosh EDH Stax," but that's a theme best suited to Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. This one's much more fun!--> Check out the deckbuilder's spotlight on CommanderCast! <--
1 Gaddock Teeg
Creatures (25)
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Stonecloaker
1 Argothian Enchantress
1 Verduran Enchantress
1 Mesa Enchantress
1 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Academy Rector
1 Acidic Slime
1 Reveillark
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mirror Entity
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Sun Titan
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Ant Queen
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1 Pentavus
1 Duplicant
Enchantments (24)
1 Flickering Ward
1 Aspect of Mongoose
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Fertile Ground
1 Overgrowth
1 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sylvan Library
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Mobilization
1 Earthcraft
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Martyr's Cause
1 Fecundity
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Rites of Flourishing
1 Aura Shards
1 Lignify
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Oblivion Ring
1 City of Solitude
1 Sterling Grove
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Skullclamp
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Congregation at Dawn
1 Altar of Bone
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Life from the Loam
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Martial Coup
Lands (38)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
1 Krosan Verge
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Grasslands
1 Temple Garden
1 Winding Canyons
1 Brushland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Elfhame Palace
1 Arctic Flats
1 Graypelt Refuge
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Slippery Karst
1 Drifting Meadow
1 Blasted Landscape
12 Snow-Covered Forest
7 Snow-Covered Plains
Important Combos and Interactions
1. Reveillark with (Karmic Guide / Saffi Eriksdotter) and (Martyr's Cause / Altar of Dementia / Mirror Entity)
Essentially, your now-standard Lark combo. If you throw in Earthcraft, you also have infinite mana. Speaking of which...
2. Squirrel Nest + Earthcraft
Who doesn't love getting overrun by an army of squirrels? Alarms start going off when people see Squirrel Nest, but really Earthcraft is a big problem, allowing you to sneak into infinite combos where there were none previously:
3. (Sacred Mesa / Mobilization / Ant Queen) with Seedborn Muse and/or Earthcraft
Absolutely nutty amounts of tokens; this will win the game quickly if unchecked. With Heartbeat of Spring or something, you could have infinite Pegasi or Ants.
4. Saffi Eriksdotter / Deadwood Treefolk / Karmic Guide / Eternal Witness / Sun Titan
Most combinations of two or more of these together can either help you recover lost combo pieces, act as annoyingly persistant blockers, or just give you something to do. They also play quite well with Earthcraft and Martyr's Cause/Altar of Dementia for infinite damage prevention/infinite mill, and adding a Mirari's Wake/Heartbeat of Spring/Fertile Ground/Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl/Overgrowth to the mix is also infinite mana. Starting to see a pattern here?
5. Yosei, the Morning Star + Genesis + sac outlet
I don't go for this one often, but Yosei has an intimidating board presence and it helps to be able to threaten to ruin someone's day if they mess with you. It's a strong deterrent.
6. (Survival of the Fittest / Fauna Shaman) + (Genesis / (Life from the Loam + Dryad Arbor))
It's a tutor and card advantage engine that helps enable some of your other combos.
7. Seedborn Muse + Winding Canyons
Now you're just like the blue mage at the table, but instead of EOT Think Twices, you're flashing in Sun Titans and Myojins in the middle of combat. Sneaky sneaky.
Why play cards Teeg shuts down?
I wouldn't recommend playing many noncreatures with CMC 4 or greater, but I think two in particular are good enough to warrant an inclusion: Mirari's Wake and Martial Coup. Wake is easily fetchable with Academy Rector and almost always wins the game if it isn't removed, and Martial Coup gives you a much-needed board sweeper and has excellent synergy with the rest of the deck.
I've tried Tooth and Nail and Glare of Subdual among other things, but they were dead to often or backfired too much to be worthwhile.
How does it perform?
While not typically the fastest or most inherently broken deck in the format, Teeg's house of cards has a lot of things going for it. Most of the combo pieces, like Reveillark and Earthcraft, are good in their own right and tend to overlap with other combos, ensuring you at least get good value out of the stuff you draw. Sacred Mesa and Martyr's Cause combine into a reusable fog machine, for example. You can't expect to win all the time, but even when you get hated out of the game, you're usually on the verge of doing something infinite or otherwise powerful. Traditional removal is also less effective on you because you have so much recursion. If you like to be the one asking the questions, then this is a goo deck for you.
I've played this deck in three side events at PTQs, Grand Prixs, and 5Ks and won all three. There are of course more factors here than deck power, but it's at least evidence that it gets things done.
The enchantment subtheme is there mainly because I needed a good draw engine and I had an unused enchantress deck sitting around playing the Magic: Gathering Dust game. It gets the job done, I guess. I would love to get some feedback because I'm sure I've missed some great cards!
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
In the middle of a recent EDH game, I had Saffi Eriksdotter and Deadwood Treefolk doing their thing sitting alongside an Earthcraft from earlier shenanigans that got disrupted. I drew a Martyr's Cause, then finally got up the guts to play the Heartbeat of Spring that had been sitting in my hand for a while. After a few turns of wasting time, I realized:
1. Use Saffi Eriksdotter's ability targeting Deadwood Treefolk.
2. Sac Deadwood Treefolk to Martyr's Cause. The Treefolk's leaves-play ability returns Saffi Eriksdotter to your hand.
3. Saffi returns Deadwood Treefolk to play, maybe returning another creature from your graveyard to your hand.
4. Tap two lands for four mana (thanks Heartbeat!) and replay Saffi Eriksdotter.
5. Tap Saffi and the Treefolk to Earthcraft and untap your two lands.
Now I was back where I started, but with two mana floating and a creature in my hand from my graveyard. With the sac outlet available, I had infinite mana and could play any creature in my hand, graveyard, or already in play infinite times. It was just cool how combo pieces I associated with Reveillark (Martyr's Cause) and the token subtheme (Earthcraft, Heartbeat of Spring) overlapped with another combo.
In short, synergy == super fun. I hope this was as interesting to you as it was to me.
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My first thought is that you're missing Squirrel Nest, for Earthcrafty goodness.
My second thought is that if you add Mighty Emergence, you have a Woodfall Primus machine gun combo with Martyr's Cause or another way to sacrifice creatures.
My third thought is that Phyrexian Altar might be good here, though I couldn't tell you exactly why I think so now. There's probably multiple infinite mana combos with it and what you already have though. Ashnod's Altar would do the same thing (though only with colorless mana). Hell, I think that Altar of Dementia and Blasting Station would just give you some instant win combos as well. Note that everything I've suggested is a creature or costs under 4 mana.
My fourth thought is that I'm too tired now but I'll have some more thoughts later.
Edit: You're missing Argothian Enchantress too. And Lightning Greaves. People hates them some Teeg.
Edit2: Oh, and from M10, Acidic Slime is a definite include. Possibly Ant Queen too. It'll be out so soon I'd just make room for them now.
1. I can't believe I missed Squirrel Nest. Auto-include.
2. Mighty Emergence would be sweet, but I already have the persist machine gun enabled by Juniper Order Ranger, which also works with the token generators.
3. At least one of the 'Altars could probably find a home in here. I don't want to add too many, so which one do you think would be best?
4. Argothian Enchantress was in here initially; I took it out becuase they cost $9 a pop and I got tired of proxying :D. Lightning Greaves was in here too, but I might throw that back in.
5. YEAH, Acidic Slime is gonna rock.
Again, thank you for the input, Khymera! It's exactly what I was looking for.
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Vigor (not bad, but probably needs something like Tooth and Nail or Natural Order to be really good. Most removal in EDH isn't burn, so doesn't actually protect Teeg very well.)
Aven Riftwatcher (I get that it can gain you infinite life in a Reveillark combo. However, I think the Kitchen Finks/Juniper Order Ranger (JOR) combo is a better way to do that, and I'm not sure you really need 2 life combos, considering that you can still lose to general damage. Maybe if you added Test of Endurance...)
Order of Whiteclay (this is probably solid enough utility with stuff like STE, Yavimaya Elder, and Saffi. doesn't seem to do all that much else though.)
Nemata, Grove Guardian (I suspect that 3 mana for a token is a bit much; you really want to paying 2. The 2nd ability isn't very helpful. I do think you want to have a creature that can make tokens--however, I think Ant Queen from M10 is most likely a better choice for this slot.)
Myojin of Cleansing Fire (I get that you want Wraths that get around Teeg, but this one just costs too much. I'm not sure you really need it anyways.)
Pentavus (eh. solid card, but seems pretty bad here, unless I'm missing something).
Sigil Captain (this unfortunately doesn't seem to open up any combos for you. I can appreciate that it helps the aggro tokens plan though. If you often win with sub-infinite amounts of tokens, this is probably a choice. I suspect that that's not a preferred win condition though, so this is probably unnecessary.)
Masked Admirers (solid, but slow and boring. gets you a little more mileage out of Survival of the Fittest, but still slow and boring, and Genesis does about the same thing. I think SotF will be just fine without this.)
Imperial Mask (Why? I really don't get this one. Can't even play it under Teeg. Solitary Confinement would be a much sexier/more powerful choice.)
Howling Mine (This is traditionally a bad card. It's maybe a little better here, but it can still help your opponents find answers to Teeg, and it has no real synergy with your deck. This slot would be much much better as Argothian Enchantress, which you should really find if you're serious about making the enchantress plan work. You need a kind of critical mass of enchantress effects to turn a deck from a pile of random enchantments into an awesome card-advantage machine--and Argothian Enchantress is probably the best of the bunch.)
Crop Rotation (card disadvantage, and you don't seem to have any lands that quite warrant this. Considering that you run Knight of the Reliquary too though, I could dig it--if you can find some more sexy lands to tutor up. Gaea's Cradle seems like it might be insane with all the tokens, and might be enough to justify Crop Rotation by itself.)
Altar of Bone (you don't usually need the single-sacrifice effect, so Eladamri's Call or Congregation at Dawn seem like they'd be better tutors. Natural Order might be a great way to find Woodfall Primus, Juniper Order Ranger, or Ant Queen/Nemata, though it unfortunately can't be cast under Teeg.)
Nostalgic Dreams (Not really getting it. I think I'd rather have Regrowth most of the time, and I'm not sure Regrowth is necessary. Leave it to Eternal Witness I think.)
Mobilization (As an enchantment token producer, this is fine, but Sacred Mesa is a lot better. Like I said, I really think you want your tokens to cost 2 mana. This is stronger than Nemata though, and should perhaps be kept.)
Planar Collapse (another Wrath that can be played under Gaddock, and even an enchantment. Sounds good, but I know from experience that this card really isn't as good as it looks. It's very hard to get this to go off when you want it to, and competent opponents can play around it well. Also, when you need to Wrath, you usually need to do it NOW...you can't afford to wait til your next upkeep, to hopefully get it off. If you really want another Wrath effect, I'd just go with Hallowed Burial, even if it can't be played under Teeg. He'll be off the board sometimes, and it's a really sexy card in EDH. Kudos on Retribution of the Meek by the way...I always considered it to be just fundamentally a bad card, but it actually makes a considerable amount of sense in this deck.)
Some of these I'm less sure of than others. I do admit that I haven't tested your deck at all yet, so these suggestions are just based in theory. I might also be missing an awesome interaction or two with some of these cards that makes them worth running. However, I'm fairly sure that Vigor, Myojin of Cleansing Fire, Pentavus, Sigil Captain, Masked Admirers, Imperial Mask, Howling Mine, Nostalgic Dreams, and Planar Collapse can go. Not bad. Nemata and Altar of Bone can go, but I want to replace them immediately with similar cards (Ant Queen and Eladamri's Call/Congregation at Dawn). Aven Riftwatcher and Crop Rotation should probably go as the deck is now, but I'm tempted to try to add cards to make them worthwhile (Test of Endurance and Gaea's Cradle, respectively). Mobilization I just don't know, and will need to test to see. Realistically though, you never want more than one token producer. You have a creature token producer, and a superior enchantment token producer, so you can tutor for them. Do you need another one? I'm thinking not, but maybe I'm wrong.
Here are some additional cards that have come to my mind. Some of them I'm mentioned already, but I'll put them all in one place for reference. Not all of them should go in the deck, but they should be on your radar, in case you detect a need for a particular kind of card. If you play with a 10 card sideboard, like the EDH bigwigs suggest (but no one ever actually does...), a lot of these would be excellent sideboard cards.
Squirrel Nest (This is kind of a "duh" one. You've already added it, so no more needs to be said.)
Mighty Emergence (I suggested this because mostly because it's an enchantment. However, you're certainly right that JOR fulfills the same role and is a hell of a lot more versatile. If you happen to find that you have Woodfall Primus and a sacrifice outlet a lot, but no JOR, Mighty Emergence would probably be a good addition. I agree that you probably don't need it otherwise though.)
Altar of Dementia/Blasting Station (I was thinking about it, and these cards should just flat-out win you the game so much of the time. You get a Reveillark combo, you win. You get a JOR combo, you win. You get infinite tokens, you win. They are also by themselves the sacrifice outlet part of these combos, which is necessary, and somewhat hard to come by in G/W. You only have Martyr's Cause and Mirror Entity for these jobs, and Mirror Entity only works with the Reveillark combo. These are both much better than Martyr's Cause, except for not being enchantments (and the enchantment distinction makes Martyr's Cause worth keeping). There's some question in my mind as to whether going off with a Reveillark combo or JOR combo by itself guarantees victory--I don't think it does, unless you're lucky enough to get the JOR-Primus combo. For that reason, I suspect that these should both be included. Combining sacrifice outlet and kill in the same card is quite strong.)
Phyrexian Altar (I was thinking about it, and you probably don't need this. In most of the situations it's good, Altar of Dementia or Blasting Station would just win you the game instead.)
Argothian Enchantress (I just took a glance at Ebay. There are a few auctions for multiple Argothian Enchantresses (or for the DCI promo foil version) for $0.99. Price shouldn't be an obstacle here. Find a buck, I say. She's perfect for this deck.)
Acidic Slime (Yeah, it's a Woodfall Primus for your Reveillark combo. Auto-include.)
Ant Queen (Like I already said, this seems to be a better Nemata.)
Lightning Greaves (I thought about it some more, and I'm leaning towards no. None of the other creatures in your deck really want Lightning Greaves, and your opponents only have so much targeted removal. Teeg is cheap enough that you can afford to replay him a lot anyways, and in a way it's actually better if people blow their removal on Teeg than on your combo creatures. I don't think there's a need for this card.)
Now for some new ideas. First, a bunch of cards that would be really really good here, except for the fact that they can't be played under Teeg. Exceptional cards that fail the Teeg test are still playable, so one or two of these might work their way in.
Tooth and Nail (The definitive green EDH card. It's pricy, but the chance to just go "RAWWR Woodfall Primus + Juniper Order Ranger" or Reveillark + Karmic Guide" probably means you should run this. Teeg gets knocked off the board sometimes, and if you ever resolve this, you should win.)
Elspeth, Knight Errant (Probably not, but you could use some planeswalkers here. You can protect them quite effectively. Elspeth goes well with Knight-Captain of Eos, and indestructibility is nice.)
Ajani Goldmane (Like I said, you could use some planeswalkers. Ajani is interesting because he plays quite nicely with your persisters and with token swarms. Seems kind of like a better Sigil Captain.)
Natural Order (Fantastic tutor, reasonably cheap. There are enough times where you could win with Woodfall Primus or JOR to make this maybe worth running. Doesn't do much for Reveillark combo though.)
Pattern of Rebirth (Like Natural Order, but probably even better. It's an enchantment and doesn't have the "green creature" limitation. It does require a sacrifice outlet for optimal use though.)
Three Dreams (Probably not, but this is huge card advantage, and you have a nice selection of auras. This is much better with Pattern of Rebirth, but grabbing some combination of Squirrel Nest, Prison Term, Flickering Ward, and Shield of the Oversoul isn't bad at all. Pattern of Rebirth pushes it over the top.)
Test of Endurance (You have two reasonably accessible infinite-life combos that I can see. If you keep both of those in, this would seem to be worthwhile. It's always nice to have more win-conditions. Come to think of it, if you add Animal Boneyard, you have another aura for Three Dreams, and another infinite life combo with Earthcraft. Interesting...)
Now the stuff that can be played under Teeg.
SKULLCLAMP (I don't know how we forgot this. Play it, don't ask questions.)
Academy Rector (Another one of those "duh" cards. It's really easy for us to sacrifice, and grabbing Priveledged Position, Glare of Subdual, Mirari's Wake, or a combo piece (Earthcraft, Squirrel Nest, Martyr's Cause...) straight to play is insanely good.)
Crucible of Worlds (There's a part of me that really wants to go land-combo with this deck as well. You already have Knight of the Reliquary and Crop Rotation, both of which are good with Crucible. You could easily toss in 3 fetchlands, which manafix and further support this. You should be running Strip Mine and Wasteland anyhow, with the land searchers you have, and Tranquil Thicket/Secluded Steppe would be good here too. These lands you should be running anyways, along with Gaea's Cradle. Toss in Exploration, which fits your enchantress theme very well anyways, and you've got something really powerful going. Crucible is not so much a combo piece (which is good, because it's hard to tutor for) as it is an always strong card that ties everything together.)
Harmonic Sliver (Good tutor target to have. I think it's usually going to be better than Qasali Pridemage, so you could make the swap. It would be nice to run both though.)
Chameleon Colossus (For some reason, this is what occurred to me when I thought of slivers. Pro-black is often relevant, and you can make tons of mana sometimes, so this might be worthwhile. Probably not enough synergy though.)
Eladamri's Call/Congregation at Dawn (Both are really good creature tutors. Eladamri's Call should almost certainly be in your deck; Congregation at Dawn most likely should be too. Tutoring up Reveillark/Karmic Guide/Mirror Entity sounds pretty saucy.)
Sylvan Tutor (Worldly Tutor #2?)
Idyllic Tutor (Need another enchantment tutor? I hate that this costs 3, but it's probably more than good enough here, especially considering how cheap/easy it is to assemble Squirrelcraft.)
Glory (Probably not, but plays nice with Survival of the Fittest/sacrifice effects and does a good job of protecting Gaddock and the rest of the gang.
Umezawa's Jitte/Sword of Fire and Ice/Sword of Light and Shadow (I kind of hate myself for suggesting these, but backup plans are good, and these cards sometimes manage to win games pretty much single-handedly. A general rule of thumb is that if you run a lot of creatures you should play Jitte, and you certainly run a lot of creatures. These equipment help to fill a kind of removal-void in your deck, which might otherwise be a weakness. They're all fantastic for card advantage too. The Swords are often good for protecting Teeg and making him a threat, and SoLaS even gives your combo pieces some more resiliency. These are all really good fits.)
Null Rod (This is one of those "probably not" cards, but it shuts down a lot of the scariest decks in the format almost single-handedly, but barely hurts you at all. Decks like Arcum, Sharuum, Azami (and Karn, lol) roll over and die to Null Rod, and any deck that relies heavily on artifact mana tends to be severely hindered. Most decks I build are hurt too badly themselves by Null Rod to include it, but it ought to be really good for you. I find it very on-theme with Teeg. It is worth noting though that adding the above equipment, along with Altar of Dementia and Blasting Station, would decrease Null Rod's worth for you somewhat. Might still be worthwhile though.)
And now some enchantments...
Exploration (Because I just thought of it, and it's good enough on it's own here. You have quite a high land count anyways.)
Seal of Cleansing/Aura of Silence (Seals of Primordium #2 and #3. Aura of Silence may well be better than Seal of Primordium anyways. It'll take some testing to see how many of these effects you need, but the enchantress engine actually makes you want to run a ton of these things.)
Utopia Sprawl (Boring, but cheap enchantments are good here, and this is basically Fertile Ground #2. Wild Growth wouldn't be bad either. You run enough lands that you could easily afford to switch one or two to these. You do have to watch your Forest count though.)
Solitary Confinement (I'm not certain that there's a need for this, but it's an insanely powerful lock card. With a couple enchantresses or Skullclamp, you can keep it going for a long time if necessary. With Genesis, you can keep it going FOREVER. With Priviledged Position, you're nigh-invincible, at least until you run out of cards. It can probably buy you at least a few turns to go off in a pinch. There are probably some decks out there that simply cannot beat Solitary Confinement + Genesis either. This could be one of those cards that's awkward sometimes, but wins you games.)
Your lands need some adjusting too, but I'll comment on that later.
Well, I've talked my own ear off. Told you I'd have some more thoughts later :glee:. Your deck really intrigues me, so I had a lot of ideas, and I'll probably have more later. Hopefully I've given you a lot to think about.
Anyway, on to the particular card choices:
Vigor -- I'm on the fence about this guy anyway. Sometimes it's nice to have a decent body that makes my tokens respecatble in combat, but other times it's just random. He is on the candidate list for removal.
Aven Riftwatcher -- only in there because sometimes I would get the Lark combo and realize I couldn't really go infinite with anything. I'm finding Aven Riftwatcher is pretty weak in EDH especially.
Order of Whiteclay -- I have four of these guys that were just begging me to use them. There may be better choices, but so far they've performed quite nicely.
Nemata, Grove Guardian -- He is simply the best walking token-spitter-outer before Ant Queen. This will be a one-for-one replacement.
Myojin of Cleansing Fire -- Just seemed natural for a white EDH deck; I'll pay attention to how often it's actually useful from now on.
Pentavus -- Another card I had sitting around that I wanted to work in. He's been great offensively, defensively, and comboinsively (with Earthcraft and Lark), but it may be time for an overhaul.
Sigil Captain -- etc. etc. should probably not be here, as it's pretty bad when I already have a Mirari's Wake or something. He does randomly win with tokens, though.
Masked Admirers -- Meh, pretty average card. Yet another candidate for replacement.
Imperial Mask -- I really don't like this card in this deck and I had kind of forgotten about it. Thanks.
Howling Mine -- I despereately needed some card draw, and this helps keep up foreign relations that are usually sabotaged by Gaddock Teeg and threat of combo.
Crop Rotation -- It's a great card, but I don't have any Gaea's Cradles. I'll probably drop it and simplify my land base at the same time.
Altar of Bone -- Just working with what I've got, and I didn't have any Eladamri's Calls ATM. I'll talk more about Congregation at Dawn in a minute.
Nostalgic Dreams -- Seemed good to have some mass recursion and has served me well just about every time I've played it. It sticks out like a sore thumb on paper, but revamping your hand later in the game is just too good to pass up.
Mobilization -- Sacred Mesa number 2 is all this is. I like a bit of redundancy in highlander formats, that's all =)
Planar Collapse -- It's in for the reasons you said. It's not as good as a flat-out Wrath, but it gets the job done (plus, I actually own one!)
Now, more on the cards you suggested:
Squirrel Nest -- Big stupid on my part. Added.
Mighty Emergence -- Agreed with what you just said; probably won't add it because it's so narrow and only improves a backup combo, anyway.
Altar of Dementia -- This will fit right in. In the odd case of facing a deck with Gaea's Blessing or something, it can also fill my graveyard with tools and recursion targets.
Argothian Enchantress -- If I can snag one for cheap, it'll go in.
Acidic Slime -- Man, that card is cool.
Ant Queen -- I hope it has good art, 'cause I'm going to be seeing it a lot.
Lighting Greaves -- Still not sure. In the meantime, my Nicol Bolas EDH sure could use some fast feet.
As for the other cards, I'll talk about the ones I DEFINITELY want:
Skullclamp -- Is spectacular and got lost somewhere in previous deck revisions. It'll fit right in.
Congregation at Dawn -- Same story as Skullclamp and was actually one of the first cards that came to mind when putting together a G/W deck. It'll go in immediately.
Tooth and Nail -- I never really considered it due to Teeg's restriction, but it might have a place.
Academy Rector -- Very good card and gives me link in the chain to get from (Creature Tutor Spell) --> (Enchantment)
Solitary Confinement -- Is actually in the deck and I don't know why it's not on this online list. Hm.
I have a bit more to say, but I have to get off the computer for just a bit. Again, I really appreciate the help you're providing! I'll check this thread again tomorrow.
Thanks!
This deck has undergone some additional significant changes (namely, I acquired some of the cards Khymera and I discussed), so here's an updated list and a report on how the deck is working IRL.
-1 Knight of the Reliquary
-1 Imperial Mask
-1 City of Solitude
-1 Seal of Primordium
-1 Prison Term
-1 Night Soil
-1 Vigor
-1 Nemata, Grove Guardian
-1 Aven Riftwatcher
-1 Crop Rotation
-1 Sol Ring (yeah, I know I know, hear me out on this one)
+1 Skullclamp -- self-explanitory
+1 Squirrel Nest -- also self-explanitory
+1 Altar of Dementia -- extra sac outlet and wincon
+1 Solitary Confinement -- sometimes you just wish this was in your deck
+1 Loaming Shaman -- definite upgrade from Night Soil and just more synergistic with the deck
+1 Ant Queen -- HUGE upgrade of Nemata
+1 Argothian Enchantress -- MOAR CARDS PLOX
+1 Aura of Silence -- upgrade over Seal of Primordium
+1 Congregation at Dawn -- Excellent tutor spell
+1 Wild Growth -- I found that Sol Ring just didn't do a lot in this deck, usually....I wanted colored mana or enchantments most of the time, and this is both.
The manabase has been edited, as well.
So I've got to play more than a few games with my old playgroup, and Teeg poses a FAR bigger problem than I originally imagined. Some decks almost shut down entirely with Teeg on the field. Several generals (like Niv-Mizzet) can trump Teeg, but most of the time people just get screwed over. I'm very pleased with the results; in fact, it's almost too competitive for my liking. A few random facts:
1. Survial of the Fittest is broken and a half
2. Every time I get infinite tokens with Sacred Mesa, I lose (3 or 4 times, now)
3. No one has stopped the Lark combo when I get it
4. I can't find my Privileged Position
Man, this deck just keeps turning up combos that I didn't know existed. Here are two that have come up in the past week or two:
Saffi Eriksdotter, Twilight Shepherd, Altar of Dementia, Earthcraft:
Infinite mill at sorcery speed. I didn't even know Twilight Shepherd could do that, until one of my friends pointed it out in the middle of a game. His loss, I guess
Pentavus, Earthcraft, a land that taps for 3 or more mana:
Infinite mana. If the land only taps for two, then you can have creatures coming into play/leaving play infinite times, in case that matters.
Conclusions: Earthcraft is more ridiculous than I had originially thought.
Also, i added a Sensei's Divining Top and (soon) a Luminarch Ascension for Shield of the Oversoul and Mobilization. Karmic Justice is also a prime candidate for inclusion. Thoughts?
More updates. I cut the stuff that was too narrow and added some more removal and enchantments.
-1 Masked Admirers -- Gah, this is so mediocre. How did I miss this in previous revisions? (you were right, Khymera)
-1 Shield of the Oversoul -- Doesn't do anything. It's not even good protection for Teeg.
-1 Glare of Subdual -- Sometimes works, usually doesn't.
-1 Howling Mine -- I like this, but replaced with Fecundity.
-1 Planar Collapse -- Meh. Rarely does this go off.
-1 Kjeldoran Outpost -- The loss of tempo hurts, and I don't actually own one anyway.
-1 Selesnya Sanctuary -- It's always a Capsize magnet. Forget that.
-1 Plains -- to make room for a nonbasic.
-1 Forest -- to make room for an enchantment, since I don't really have mana issues.
+1 Yosei, the Morning Star -- Great creature, lets me lock people with Genesis and other shenanigans.
+1 Journey to Nowhere -- Solid spot removal that usually draws a card or two.
+1 Fecundity -- We'll see how this goes, but I think it's gonna be great.
+1 Karmic Justice -- Freaking amazing. I love this card.
+1 Swords to Plowshares -- More necessary spot removal. Always happy to have it.
+1 Null Rod -- Screws me over sometimes, but screws other people more.
+1 Brushland -- Needed some more mana fixing.
+1 Horizon Canopy -- Great card, this one. The card draw is relevant, too.
+1 Graypelt Refuge -- Still more fixing.
I also added two cards (Holistic Wisdom and City of Solitude) since the deck was reduced to 98 cards somewhere along the way. I'm not entirely sold on either, but they're in for now.
Note that Mobilization is still in over Luminarch Ascension, because the synergy with Skullclamp is too good to ignore. That, and Mobilization is a great late-game topdeck, whereas the Ascension won't do anything immediately except draw the hate.
I've probably spent more time tweaking this deck than any of my others, and I'm immensely pleased with how it turned out. It's incredibly fun to play, even though it's still a little too competitive for my liking. It thrives best in a multiplayer environment, but still wins its fair share of games in a 1-on-1 setting. I'm still open to suggestions and feedback, if anyone is interested!
Thanks for reading!
EDIT: The other possible candidates for inclusion:
1. Aven Mindcensor -- Seems like it could just wreck people. I can vouch that Mindlock Orb is effective in other decks.
2. Overgrowth -- Mana accel is good, and it would make Eartcraft that much better. I could cut one of the more questionable enchantments.
3. Exploration -- The $15 price tag is disheartening. Maybe I can trade for one.
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I would like to ask you, how doesMartial Coup work out for you? Is it worth keeping in the deck as opposed to spells such as *** if you can't play either with Teeg out?
Also I would like to suggest a few cards although your list is pretty tight, so I am honestly unsure as to what you could remove for these. Just some food for thought I guess
Phantom Nishoba is a powerful creature that can be retrieved by Lark if your other plans are not going so well.
Rancor is a recurring aura that can have your enchantress's spit out cards if anything.
Replenish seems as though it could be a game winner if people play cards such as Tempest of Light and/or Cleanfall. Having all your enchantments come in after the world blows up can really throw people off!
Femeref Enchantress is another card engine. With help from Aura Shards, Rancor, and Aura of Silence, she can generate quite a bit of advantage if you need any more of that.
Harmonize seems as though it would help you dig through your deck to acquire those combo pieces quicker.
Greater Auramancy is another cover for your enchantments.
Lastly, I also wanted to know how Pentavus was working out for you. Is he worth the spot, and how exactly do you use him?
EDIT: I think that Overgrowth should be added in place of Holistic Wisdom, unless of course that card has proven valuable to you. Exploration does not warrant inclusion imo. I could be wrong of course because I'm sure that you get many extra lands with the enchantresses, then again you do have Rites of Flourishing for that as well.
Martial Coup has almost always delivered for me. I've considered spells such as Wrath of God and Harmonize, but they just generally don't perform as well in this deck. My reasoning is this: if these spells are going to be stuck in your hand sometimes thanks to Teeg, you'll want them to be potentially powerful and swingy enough to warrant the slot. Martial Coup has won a couple games almost by itself, too, including one in the current EDH MWS tournament. I'm going to include a Tooth and Nail for the same reason, probably in place of Twilight Shepherd, Yosei, the Morning Star, or Knight-Captain of Eos.
Of the other suggestions, I like Greater Auramancy the most. I have one laying around here somewhere, so I'll try to squeeze it in. Oh, and you're absolutely right about Overgrowth and Holistic Wisdom; those will be swapped ASAP. Replenish is cool, too... I'm going to have to think on that one.
I'm pretty satisfied with Pentavus. He's not an absolute showstopper or anything, but he pulls his weight. I've used him as a recurring token generator with Genesis when I had my hand discarded, I've beat down with Pentavites pumped up by Mirari's Wake and Juniper Order Ranger, and I've even used him to make infinite mana with Earthcraft and Overgrowth-effects. As of recently, he can be a card-draw engine with Fecundity, though I haven't had an opportunity to try that out. He's also one of the few guys in the deck that can chump fliers, and that's nice too. Actually, Yosei, the Morning Star is in more danger of getting cut than Pentavus, and that's saying something.
Anyway, thanks again for your suggestions. Keep me posted on the deck you're making, too!
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Don't get me wrong, I still won a lot...but usually off of the awesome power of Teeg, with random good creatures to speed things up. I still liked the idea of using Teeg to protect combos, but I decided to streamline the combos, and lose the underperforming enchantress subtheme. I thought you might be interested in what I came up with, though it's still a work in progress. This is my latest list.
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Strip Mine
1 Secluded Steppe
6 Plains
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Winding Canyons
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Temple Garden
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Brushland
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Krosan Verge
1 Kor Haven
7 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Sungrass Prairie
1 Savannah
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
Creatures:
1cc:
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Mother of Runes
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Qasali Pridemage
3cc:
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Peacekeeper
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Eternal Witness
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Mirror Entity
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Stonecloaker
4cc:
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Willow Satyr
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
5cc:
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Silklash Spider
1 Acidic Slime
1 Archon of Justice
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Genesis
6cc:
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Duplicant
7cc:
1 Platinum Angel
9cc:
1 Reya Dawnbringer
Enchantments:
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Earthcraft
1 Guilty Conscience
1 Sterling Grove
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Aura Shards
1 Aspect of Mongoose
1 Land Tax
1 Aura of Silence
1 Heartbeat of Spring
1 Rites of Flourishing
1 Sol Ring
1 Coalition Relic
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Other:
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Condemn
1 Lignify
1 Oblation
1 Krosan Grip
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Life from the Loam
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Steelshaper's Gift
I think all the choices should be fairly self-explanatory--I have protection for Teeg, combos, tutors, removal, acceleration, and that's about it. Note that every card in my deck is playable under Teeg, which is just the way I like it. My primary combos are Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest, Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience, Reveillark/Acidic Slime loops, and Yosei, the Morning Star loops. Beatdown with Teeg + equipment is quite viable too.
Other cards that I've been tinkering with include:
Brown Ouphe:
I stumbled upon this card because he's one of the only answers to Oblivion Stone, the only mass removal spell that can actually touch this deck. He's actually surprisingly useful in many other random situations, but I found I usually didn't need him.
Brooding Saurian:
I hate Vedalken Shackles, basically. Generally too narrow though.
Loaming Shaman:
Graveyard hate on a stick. Sometimes I wish I had access to this, but usually Teeg can keep most combos in check.
Voidstone Gargoyle:
For scary generals, or for when there's only one card that could wreck you. I'd like to fit this back in.
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant:
Really powerful effect with often narrow applications. I never see burn, but games sometimes turn into creature wars when Teeg is on the table with protection...Rune-Tail helps you win creature wars.
Blazing Archon:
The definitive way to win creature wars. It's just really expensive. I'm using Peacekeeper as a ghetto-Blazing Archon, just sticking around long enough for me to combo off. I'd like to have this option too though.
Karmic Justice:
More anti-sweeper tech, probably unnecessary.
Dense Foliage:
Extremely powerful effect, but I didn't like how it shut off my own removal and my Guilty Doll combo.
I've also been considering Iona, Shield of Emeria, Expedition Map, and World Queller, but haven't had a chance to test any of these yet.
I know my list is pretty different from your deck, but it evolved from your deck, and I think it's strong. At the least, I'm sure there are a lot of cards here for you to consider. Have you had the same kind of problems I did with assembling your combos and getting an enchantress engine rolling? I think this style of deck is a bit more consistent, and my combos are more concise.
1GG
Sorcery
Draw some cards.
"Pitch me to Survival! Come on, do it!"
...then I'm content. To be fair, I guess you could build the deck in such a way that you don't need to actually draw cards every often. Oh well... I had 'em, so I used 'em.
I'm surprised that you don't like Juniper Order Ranger, though. While the dedicated combo (Ranger + Woodfall Primus + sac outlet) doesn't happen often, he's absolutely great with tokens and sometimes gets arbitrarily large with Lark. Even the other pieces of the combo (Primus, Altar of Dementia, and Martyr's Cause) are almost always useful to have IMO, especially Altar. Milling yourself is so tech with this deck
As far as your list goes, Peacekeeper is a freaking amazing card I've been toying around with. I'm actually running it in my "slightly more 1-on-1 focused" MWS version in the current EDH tournament, and it's been paying off. Idyllic Tutor is also worth considering, as it's usually 3 mana "go get Survival of the Fittest," I guess. Reya Dawnbringer seems like the nuts in a deck full of recursion. Lastly, equipment seems like a good idea. In multiplayer, I never, ever, ever, EVER attack with Teeg, because I've concluded that "Teeg beats don't matter" for my deck. I've kept track of it in countless games, and in the end, I either combo out, attack with so many tokens/big creatures that the early damage didn't matter, or I lose. Equipment could change that, although the hefty price tags that on some them are a little daunting.
However, I will pass on the Stuffy Doll combos, because they're really overdone in my meta. They do fit the deck like a glove, though.
As for the cards you listed, here are some thoughts on some of them:
Loaming Shaman -- Top-notch stuff. It's been really useful in a variety of situations. I'd recommend it.
Voidstone Gargoyle -- Not that great in multiplayer; it just makes me look like a douchebag (I mean, even more so)
Karmic Justice -- I think it's the best addition since Altar of Dementia. Either people leave me alone, or I get to make an example of the guy that hosed my enchantments. Win-win.
Iona, Shield of Emeria -- I've been bouncing this idea off some of my friends. I guess I'd cut something like Myojin? Probably not.
Expedition Map -- If you've got Gaea's Cradle, definitely. I don't, so I won't.
In conclusion I think that overall, your deck > my deck. I don't want to cut some of my good-but-not-great card choices just yet, because those are the cards I wanted to use in an EDH deck from the get-go. That, and I have an unreasonable attachment to drawing cards. Thanks for all your input, man; at least half of the revisions (read: improvements) I've made are a direct result of our conversations.
I am happy to see that people are taking the Teeg combo idea and running with it. How are you enjoying your deck? And for that matter, how is your playgroup enjoying it?
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Then again, I could see them being prone to people's Wastelands and Strip Mines...
Regardless, I would be interested to know your opinion on this.
...Never mind, just remembered Earthcraft only untaps basics...
EDIT: Also, how has Aven Mincensor been working out for you? I find it to be an extremely useful creature but have been thinking of possibly replacing it with Knight of the Reliquary. I would just like to know how often the Mincensor disrupts your opponents in the games you have played so as to warrant a spot over the Knight.
First of all, the changes:
-1 Plains
-1 Solitary Confinement OR Rites of Flourishing
+1 Temple Garden
+1 Overgrowth
Solitary Confinement is getting cut because it hasn't won me a single game yet. It was great in my Zur deck when I could just tutor it up at will, but in this deck I usually want to use my Enlightened Tutor on Survival of the Fittest or Earthcraft. Rites of Flourishing doesn't do a whole lot, either, and the deck has a lot less "group hug" feel to it than it did originally -- now my playgroup knows enough to see Heartbeat of Spring as a threat instead of a blessing when it's played by Gaddock Teeg. G/ is short on card draw, though... what should I do? And what should I add in it's place?
As far as the Fertile Ground effects go, I think they're absolute gold because of Earthcraft, like you said. Why just yesterday Pentavus and Earthcraft did their thing and got me infinite mana because of Overgrowth or some nonsense. Also, just having some mana accel is really nice. While it is sort of LD bait, I've found that people usually save their Strip Mines for bigger problems, like Academy Ruins and Cabal Coffers and the like.
Aven Mindcensor has been surprisingly lackluster for me, but then again I've only seen it twice since I added it to the list, so I can't tell for certain yet. However, one of my friends recently built a nasty Captain Sisay deck that would probably HATE to see me play Aven Mindcensor, so it stays in for the time being. Knight of the Reliquary is a great add, though, and it was in the very early builds of this list (which had stuff like Kor Haven and Maze of Ith I could go fetch). If I ever get my hands on a Gaea's Cradle, Knight of the Reliquary will certainly find a home in here again.
I've been seriously thinking about dropping Null Rod. It's an absolute showstopper against some decks that rely on artifact mana, but it also shuts down my Skullclamp, Sensei's Divining Top, Altar of Dementia, and Pentavus -- those are pretty important cards. I just don't know. Thoughts?
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How about adding in Mind's Eye as a means of getting more card draw? I know it sucks that it gets blocked by Teeg, but I'm sure he gets hated on so much so as to allow you to sneak in a few fat spells here and there.
Mirri's Guile and Sylvan Library also work well, AND they fly under Teeg's radar. Krosan Tusker is also an option.
The new Novablast Wurm seems like it would like to make it into your deck.
On that same point, do you usually play Teeg in multiplayer or in duels? I am under the impression that you would get hated on very extensively for playing him in a multiplayer game, possibly even more so than U/B generals.
As I would like a deck to be playable in both environments, I was thinking of switching to a friendlier G/W general if this is the case. Could you please enlighten me on this matter?
Believe it or not, I actually play in multiplayer games, primarily. You're right about Teeg causing the mega angries, but that doesn't make him any less good. While he absolutely shuts down some decks (and for the sake of the game I'll be a bit more conservative about playing him then), I daresay a lot of people are occasionally thankful for Teeg's presence on the board. When one player gets a nuts draw with Sol Ring and Grim Monolith, Teeg is there to slow things down a bit while everyone else catches up. Also, by this point the other players' decks in our playgroup are potent enough to take some of the attention off of Teeg, at least for a little while.
I also play this deck 1-v-1 in Clem's MWS tournaments. I switch things up a lot (like adding more cheap removal and putting fetches and Savannah in the manabase), but the vast majority of the deck is identical to my RL multiplayer list. In short, you can make this deck for multiplayer OR duels. Infinite combos are quite scalable
If you wanted a friendlier general, I hear good things about Captain Sisay. Not that she isn't good (she's quite amazing, actually), but you can build your deck to any degree of competitiveness you want. If you want to keep the core of this deck with graveyard shenanigans and Lark combo, then Saffi Eriksdotter would be a fine choice that doesn't draw as much hate right away but might actually make comboing easier. Rhys the Redeemed might also be good if you want to focus on the token strategy, though I think he's a little overdone as a general.
I'm pondering adding Sylvan Library. I'll probably wait until I actually own some fetchlands I can add for the shuffle effects, but I can see it being really powerful in the future. Mind's Eye probably won't make the cut, though. I do have to address the issue of library manipulation, though, so here's what I did:
-1 Null Rod
-1 Tooth and Nail
+1 Idyllic Tutor
+1 Academy Rector
So Null Rod is out in the interest of all parties involved, and Tooth and Nail just sits in my hand half the time and gets Knowledge Exploitationed the other half of the time. Idyllic Tutor and Academy Rector (I FINALLY traded for one) give the deck some more tutoring and can do several things:
1. Tutor up the last piece of an infinite combo (the meanest choice)
2. Go get Survival of the Fittest and start a Genesis card advantage train
3. Rector can bring out a random card like Mirari's Wake or City of Solitude underneath Teeg (or post-Wrath) to further whatever game plan you want
I'm not sure on Novablast Wurm... it just seems like Myojin of Cleansing Fire does the same job without having to wait a whole round to attack. Does that sound reasonable?
One last thing before I go: Fecundity rocks. The other creature decks love you for playing it and it digs you into the stuff you need. I got infinite mana with Pentavus, Earthcraft (courtesy of the new Idyllic Tutor!), and Overgrowth yesterday but I didn't have anything to sink my mana into. Then I realized I had Fecundity in play and I just drew my deck and won on the spot. It was totally random and totally awesome.
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Hey, glad to hear you're enjoying it! I like playing it, too... just seeing what kind of shenanigans you can do with stuff like Deadwood Treefolk and Earthcraft is a blast! You're right about the competitive bit, too -- you can just randomly pull out wins from nowhere when you assemble a combo. Speaking of which, sometimes I think it's fun to play an entire game and refuse to go infinite. This deck has all the recursion and card advantage it needs to win an attrition war, assuming you don't get hit by Tormod's Crypt more than once.
I'm undecided on Luminarch Ascension. When it was first spoiled, I was super excited about it -- I was going use it to replace Mobilization ASAP. But then, Mobilization is just so good in other ways, because it's a much better topdeck and the tokens are Skullclamp-able. What did you take out for the Ascension? I'd like to try it out!
Here's a list of the cards I'm considering including:
Luminarch Ascension (as discussed above)
Lignify (good spot removal/general hate)
Aspect of Mongoose (as advocated by Khymera, protects Teeg mainly)
Sylvan Library (would be better with more shuffle effects)
Life from the Loam (if I ever get fetches/cycling lands in here)
Exploration/Burgeoning (maybe...I'll have to test these out)
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You took out Martyr's Cause? That's interesting... I guess I can see it being bad in certain metas, but it was included mainly because it was the only enchantment sac outlet in G/W. Maybe Mirror Entity and Altar of Dementia are enough by themselves, though.
We have a Uril, the Miststalker player and other random decks that like to swing with huge fatties, though, so the Cause stays in my deck for the time being. I'll probably take out Rites of Flourishing first and see how it goes.
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We don't really have any aggro decks here. The Generals at our shop are:
Vendillion Clique
Gaddock Teeg
Jhoira
Niv Mizzet
Erayo
Karn
Sliver Overlord x2
The sliver decks don't really play. When they do everyone kind of works together against them if they start to get out of control. Every other deck tries to take a control approach.
Glissa, the Traitor, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, The Mimeoplasm
So what did M11 bring us? Fauna Shaman seemed like an obvious include, so it makes the cut immediately. I've mentioned before that Survival of the Fittest is the best card in the deck, and while Fauna Shaman isn't quite as bonkers as its predecessor, it is still plenty good enough. Also, while not as much of an auto-include as Fauna Shaman, Sun Titan is amazing and very on-theme with the deck. At the very least, it will return something like Yavimaya Elder or a random enchantment; at most, you can loop it with Saffi Eriksdotter or Eternal Witness until the cows come home. He's a beast. A beast with bad artwork.
Hermit Druid's effect is powerful, but I don't think this is the deck for him. We need a decent number of basics for two main reasons:
1. Earthcraft
2. Resiliency to common multiplayer land hate (Blood Moon, Destructive Flow, Back to Basics, etc.)
Unless Hermit Druid can dump huge chunks of our library into our graveyard, he probably isn't worthwhile. This deck could be built in such a way as to take advantage of the Druid, but it would take a complete manabase overhaul and I don't have the money to do a good job just yet. Give it a shot, though, and let us know the results!
Playtesting a version of this deck for 1v1, I think there are some older goodies that I think could warrant an inclusion, as well:
Sylvan Library -- is crazy good. Will definitely find room for it.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence -- very useful, shuts down a lot of problematic stuff
Peacekeeper -- great in 1v1; not sure if it's needed in multiplayer (politics play a BIG role in survival)
Arashi, the Sky Asunder -- this deck is just a little soft to a flying army. If that gets popular, Arashi will be my go-to card of choice.
Life from the Loam -- absolutely spectacular, but requires fetchlands and cycling lands. I might try to pull off a budget version with Terramorphic Expanses and such.
And now, for something really cute: I think I'm going to test Dryad Arbor in here. Sometimes I just really need one extra land, but all my tutors in hand only grab creatures. Picture this scenario, which came up (again) yesterday: I have a 2-land opener with Worldly Tutor and Yavimaya Elder. One of my opponents ramps up with Sol Ring or another mana artifact and will have access to 4 or more mana earlier than usual. Tutoring up Sakura-Tribe Elder always feels so lackluster and costs me precious early turns that I could spend playing Teeg. Dryad Arbor would give me a good, natural-feeling tutor target and let me hit my land drop. Late-game, Dryad Arbor gets Skullclamped with the best of them and counts for stuff like Aura Shards. When I add Life from the Loam, it gives me a great (and super-cute) way to recur a body to pitch to Fauna Shaman or something. Unfortunately, Dryad Arbor "comes into play tapped" and dies to all kinds of collateral damage, but once I get rolling I don't really care about pinpoint land removal. I think the Arbor's synergies at least make it break even for multiplayer (for 1v1, it would be terrible, turning your opponent's spot removal into efficient Stone Rains).
So what do we cut for all this stuff?
Karmic Justice -- my playgroup has moved away from mass enchantment destruction, and I'm not as reliant on enchantments as I used to be.
Woodfall Primus -- the guy is just so slow. Having a huge body is nice, but Sun Titan fills that role well. Unfortunately, the combo with Juniper Order Ranger is now gone, but we have Sun Titan combos to make up for it.
Juniper Order Ranger -- was very good to me, but it felt like a "win more" card. It's kind of a dead draw unless you already have good token production or a piece of the combo.
Nantuko Monastery -- Taps for colorless. Simply never relevant. Ever. Dryad Arbor, on the other hand, might be.
As far as the enchantresses go, I will say this: After we make these cuts, they are probably the weakest cards in the deck. However, that doesn't mean that they are bad -- every time I want to throw them away, I get Flickering Ward or something online and win because of it. Combined with the nostalgic fact that this deck is all that is left of my old enchantress deck, they're here to stay -- for now.
+ Fauna Shaman
+ Sun Titan
+ Dryad Arbor
- Karmic Justice
- Woodfall Primus
- Juniper Order Ranger
- Nantuko Monastery
Life from the Loam pending until I get fetchlands.
Now let me answer some questions, if they are still pertinent after all these months:
Eladamri's Call is about as close as you can get to "strictly better." Altar of Bone has paid off a lot for me in the past (sac Yavimaya Elder with no loss of tempo, sac Academy Rector when no one will kill it, etc.), but Eladamri's Call is probably just the stronger choice.
Why thank you so much! I've mentioned before that this deck is my pride and joy when it comes to deckbuilding, and that still holds true today. It's my favorite deck to play, as well! While Khymera hyper-tunes his list for 1v1 play, I'm going to stick to my guns and optimize this bad boy for multiplayer. I'm just glad to see that people are taking the idea and running with it!
To whoever is reading this: if you get the chance, proxy this deck up and let me know how it plays. I think we've got this engine running smoothly, but the more ideas, the better!
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What are your thoughts on:
Awakening Zone (Tokens with built-in sacrifice outlets)
Elspeth Tirel (Scars of Mirrodin)
Flickerform
Hokori, Dust Drinker
Primeval Titan
Sword of Body and Mind (Scars of Mirrodin)
Also: Is the Original Post your current list or has it changed? If so, can you post your current one please?