This post is here primarily to make an addition to the EDH database that is being put together by Nicol Bolas. I figured I would share my babies, both Experiment Kraj, and Momir Vig, Simic Visionary to follow. Hope you enjoy the deck, and i hope it can give you some ideas to bring to your own decks. Feel free to comment or inquire. Thanks.
I have decided to make Kraj my casual/fun general to be used in pick up games since he is such a blast to play and not entirely overwhelming like Momir Vig, who is inevitably more competitive and not exactly fun to play against. However, don't be fooled. Kraj can definitely win games too.
In a nutshell. Most of the changes to the deck can be seen in the overall mana curve as it is greatly improved from the previous deck. The early turns focus on building up mana and a reasonable board presence. Mana acceleration isn't as important here as is mana ramping and ensuring consistent land drops. Otherwise, I have come to a new philosophy with regards to untapping Kraj; namely that free untaps are good, even if it requires you bouncing one of your own forests (tempo loss) to do so (see Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger). This tempo loss can also be mitigated by the newly included Oracle of Mul Daya and even capitolized upon by the landfall guys, Tideforce Elemental and Avenger of Zendikar. The rest of the changes basically included many previously missing EDH staples instead of some of the narrow or lesser used cards from the previous list. This new version has been much more consistent than its predecessor.
Kraj has plenty of little combos that are just as, if not more fun/effective than the planeswalker jank. If you look closely at the list you should be able to pick out a fair few.
Unstable, some card explanations in regards to your questions.
Surivival of the Fittest is good in just about any deck that can support it, especially when you run cards like Genesis, Eternal Witness, and Body Double. SotF and it's half-brother Defense of the Heart are great in this deck.
Sakashima the Impostor has been awesome in my opinion, she took the place of Quicksilver Elemental, which I used to run. She can copy anybody (even other Legends) as I am sure you realize, and she isn't as narrow as QE, which is entirely dependent on another creature with a relevant activatedability to be even remotely good, and if the other creature leaves play, Sakashima still retains the abilities unlike QE. But i do really like QE, it was just never there when i needed it i suppose.
Mind Over Matter is actually a recent addition and I am still testing it out to see if it merits inclusion. It is obscenely good with Arcanis and can give you a clutch, no-mana-required, tap or untap that can be gamebreaking in this deck in particular.
Intruder Alarm is an old favorite of mine that has combo written all over it. Intruder Alarm + Spike Tiller + Forbidden Orchard is good times. It also allows me obscene untaps on opponents turns, especially against creature-heavy decks. It is also really good with Triskelavus or Elvish Piper.
TBH i have been on the fence in regards to the Sliver for a while now. There is something about him that i really like, but more often than not he is simply underwhelming. I should probably really reconsider his slot. There are times when he can be really really good and quickly become really really big (with Vigor), but again I've really been unsure about him lately. Maybe QE will find his way back in after all.
I think your deck looks very good as well, especially for just having made it and I am glad to see that it is sans Jace/Garruk, March of the Machines, and Mycosynth Lattice. The only suggestion that immediately comes to mind is to add a few more land. You won't regret it. I currently have 36 + Maze and that is still too low imo. Otherwise focus on incorporating cards that provide untaps and you are set.
Some other cards that you may want to look into that have been absolutely stellar for me are...
Merfolk Looter: great in highlander in general and can give Kraj flying to boot.
Morphling: i know he is tough to get a hold of but he is worth it, nuff said.
Jodah's Avenger: ever wished kraj had shadow and/or doublestrike when he becomes insanely huge?
Elvish Piper: alot of your guys are pretty expensive/mana intensive so this will help out dramatically. Couple this with all of your untapping effects and you've got yourself a party.
Cauldron of Souls: with all of your graft guys and ways to distribute counters this can make you virtually immune to Wrath, etc. Fairly new to my list and I haven't regretted it once.
I've been thinking about moving a Crystal Shard into my list. I currently play it in my Momir Vig deck and I like it a lot, but like you said it is about finding the slot for it.
Meloku is good, and yes, probably better off on her own as you have mentioned (since you don't play Kraj very often) but I assure you IF you play Kraj and have Morphling on the board, it gets absolutely amazing.
Say... wouldn't Bloom tender be good in this deck? Once you put a counter on bloom tender and have a critter that has a Q mechanic, You can go off for infinite mana correct?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On the works: Leyline Deck Wins
:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
i actually have had great experience with Leech Bonder. At first his ability seems a bit underwhelming but he can really swing things into your favor rather quickly. I think the whole notion of being able to move counters is really underrated. Really, I think any Q effect is pretty good.
Elvish Aberration and Gilder Bairn is pretty tech. so is forestcycling.
Updated list for those who care. I removed many of what I consider to be "geared for competitive 1v1 play" cards so that the deck becomes more casual in nature and better for multiplayer without losing much potency.
Hey, Miscalcul8edRisk! I've been running Kraj for a while now, and I love playing the deck. He's a blast to play. I thought I'd post my deck here, mainly to generate discussion, and get some ideas going.
I just recently discovered Djinn of Wishes + Top. Also, having Genesis in the yard + Eternal Witness, High Market, and Time Warp can make infinite turns. I decided to make some room for the High Market because of that.
Looks like our lists are pretty comparable aside from some notable disinclusions (Survival, Genesis, Mind's Eye) which are banned in my local group, and some others (Rootwater Thief, Cryptic, and Sol Ring) which I have opted not to include simply to reinforce the casual emphasis of my build. I too love playing Kraj just because he is so good in such an unconventional way, not to mention that the flavor of this deck is through the roof. May I strongly suggest the persist creatures, namely Glen Elendra Archmage and Woodfall Primus for your deck as they are amazing with all of the +1/+1 counters flying around via graft abilities or Kraj himself. Cauldron of Souls has been fantastic here too for the very same reason. The biggest weakness I have discovered with Kraj is that you routinely find yourself overextending to try to build upon his abilities and you send an open invitation for a Wrath of some sort. Persist solves many of those issues. I'm also not a huge fan of the token generators in this deck. Sure they are good with Doubling Season but otherwise they don't really help Kraj out in the least. Hope this provided some insight for you.
I actually just revamped my deck in the last week or so, I will post an update soon.
The biggest weakness I have discovered with Kraj is that you routinely find yourself overextending to try to build upon his abilities and you send an open invitation for a Wrath of some sort.
This is very much the case in most of my games. I hate having to hold back too, because it hurts the flavor of the game for me (Kraj isn't as big as he could be? What?).
I'll try out the Cauldron, as I'm fairly sure it will improve my game. I've been meaning to put in the Archmage, but it's so hard to take out Mycoloth from this deck. I've frequently busted out 100s of tokens with him. I know that taking it out is the better decision, but for some reason I'm having trouble bringing myself to do it. Ant Queen was easier to cut.
I'm interested in your updated list. However, since you have a playgroup that has banned certain cards, it will be difficult for me to discern which cards you put in because you wanted them in, and which cards you put in as second-choice replacements. I'd be annoyed if my playgroup did any of that, tbh.
Yeah I'm not too excited about the bannings myself. Actually, the reason the Genesis and Survival of the Fittest are banned is because of yours truly (from my Momir Vig deck) but this deck lost access to them as well. The biggest change that my deck saw in the latest update was the inclusion of the Planeswalker combo pieces, I know I know, look half a dozen posts up and witness me calling it jank. However, I realized that despite the combo being kindof dumb, all of the pieces are actually quite good on their own as well, combo aside. So in came Jace Beleren, Garruk Wildspeaker, Tezzeret the Seeker, Karn, Silver Golem, and Mycosynth Lattice. All of the 'Walkers have their own strengths that round out the deck, but Karn especially is really good as you can animate your opponent's Gilded Lotus or Planar Portal for example, and proceed to place a +1/+1 counter on it and abuse the hell out of it. Lattice is pretty good because it helps fix your mana if nothing else.
I never really liked Mycoloth myself, though he is very tempting. I tested him out for a while and I found that I never really had anything that I wanted to sacrifice to him to get him started, then again I suppose you could always just play him and stack counters on him via graft/Kraj abilities and churn out tokens like nobody's buisness. Honestly still just seems ok to me.
The aspect of your deck that I do really like, however, is your creature searching suite with Chord of Calling, Tooth and Nail, and whatnot. I currently have Primal Command but that is simply outclassed by the other two, otherwise my searching is to a minimum. I might try out the tooth and see how it works out.
Lastly, do yourself a huge favor and try to squeeze in Opposition. That card has singlehandedly won me more games than any other card in the deck. It is simply fantastic, even in multiplayer.
Trouble is, those bannings (as much as they were not in your favor at all) opened up deck space for you to work with. Out of all the EDH decks I have built, this one has been the hardest for me to take out and replace cards with.
Ok, so Cauldron wasn't so hard. Evolution Vat has been underperforming, and hasn't won me any games.
If I had the space, I might have included that PW combo. If nothing else, you get the effects of the 'walkers, and Karn + Cytoplast Manipulator is pretty awesome. I only use Jace, but again, the problem is what to take out. That combo is 4 cards I don't have. For example, I recently took out Sage of Fables, because she was underwhelming without the right backup in play at the same time. I added Djinn of Wishes in her place (for his interativity with Top and Doubling Season), but after your confirmation that I should use the Archmage (was teetering on the fence), Sage's value in the deckspace skyrockets.
On other news, run Tooth and Nail. It wins games. Chord is great, but TnN is always amazing for me, everytime. I'll post where I'm at now, and I'd like to see what you're running now too.
EDIT: Gah, I made cuts. I'll miss you, Mycoloth and Cytospawn Shambler. Surprizingly, I miss Shambler more. It's a shame Thornling does his job better, CS looks so damn cool, and was one of my best grafters. I want to put him back in as soon as I see an opening.
I play a kraj deck as well and allways have problems with wrath effects so I had to twist my version a little. Plans that worked out best for me so far were bounce recurrsion (Crystal shard, Erratic Portal, Veldaken Mastermind and Equilibrium) this not only saves your creatures but also lets you reuse your 187 creatures. worked out pretty well so far. Also Veldalken Orrey has done fairly well in my build.
How is lurking predators by the way? I sadly dont have one yet and I'm wondering if it's really worth the slot.
Another card that actually works quite nice in EDH is Stronghold Machinist (again if you are up against many Mass removal)
And Finally why is the planeswalker/Kraj Combo allways played with lattice instead of just Memnarch? for me he allways was the better choice, not only is he quite a threat on his own, he is als o tutorable (TaN on memnarch and Karn and the only thing you'll need from there is any Walker).
I cut Evolution Vat a long long time ago, it is completely unnecessary and a worthwhile cut on your behalf. I also agree that the Shambler, while solid and thematic, is on the losing side of Thornling which doubles as anti-Wrath tech.
Don't ask me how but I forgot about Memnarch, he is probably better than the Lattice in this deck and is a much stronger card by itself than the Lattice ever would be.
I will try to post my decklist tonight. There are still some rough edges, particularly in the manabase, but otherwise it has been working well enough.
Now that the combo is Memnarch + Karn + Planeswalker, it looks a lot stronger, and much more viable. Hell, with any PW on the board, TnN would trigger the combo, provided you had a little extra mana to activate abilities. How did I miss this?
Lurking Predators is good by itself. With Top, it becomes stellar. I've played games where people aren't casting their spells, because they don't want to flip my card after I activate Top with Lurk out.
Without Top - 8/10
With Top - 10/10
With Top and Djinn of Wishes -
Ok, I need to find room for Memnarch, Karn, and Garruk. What do I cut?
Cards that I'd like to take out but didn't find a replacement Yet:
Thousand Year Elixir -> Will be replaced with Lurking Predators
Stronghold Mchisnist ->Archmage
Sakura tribe elder-> somthing that grants me a Land every Turn, he alone is simply not good enough
Rootwater Thief -> Wihle beeing Good in a Highlander Format he's just not powerfull in Multiplayer
Hope that gives you some inspiration.
Things I tried and would Cut in your deck Would be:
Cytoplast Root Kin -> Not big enough to make a Difference and rarley really useful
Protean Hydra -> Nive but not nice enough
Triskelion -> 3 Damage is nice but not worth the Slot or the 6 Mana even though it's good fun with kray and Gilder Bairn
I actually like both the Thousand-Year Elixir and Sakura-Tribe Elder. Elixir gives all your tap abilities haste, which is often very relevant not to mention that it untaps Kraj for shenanigans. STE is always solid, likewise for Yavimaya Elder. They don't do a hell of a lot for Kraj but are superb at ensuring land drops. I like them better than Rampant Growth~esque effects.
I actually second your sentiments on Root-Kin. I like him as a grafter but he really doesn't do much besides clog up the four-slot. I recently cut Ertai, Wizard Adept from my build as well. He is very good at keeping 1 player on the ropes until you drop something on your turn, only to find yourself staring down a Wrath with no mana open to counter. He is substantially better in 1v1 despite the Muse effects.
I picked up a T&N and Memnarch online today. Couldn't afford to pass those up any longer.
Grats on getting Tooth and Nail, Risk. You won't regret topdecking it, ever. I need to go get a Memnarch myself now, as well as Garruk and Karn.
Djinn is fantastic. Top whatever you want to the top of your library, then play it off of Djinn for 2UU. Djinn gets sick with Doubling Season, Gilder Bairn, or Magus of the Future/Futuresight in play. Even without Top, Djinn can sometimes save you from a clutch situation. I've used him at instant speed to flip a counterspell (to not lose the game) before.
Triskelion was on my shortlist, but he's involved in winning the game once I get infinite untaps. By setting up the untaps, I can put enough counters on him to kill everyone at once. Without that scenario, I'd definitely consider it, but you have a slot for Triskavelus, so now I'm not sure. I don't know if he's worth keeping just for that contingency. Thoughts?
I had Thousand Year Elixer and STE in an earlier version of my deck. I prefer using Skyshroud Claim over STE, and Elixer has been about as useful to me as Evolution Vat was. I never seemed to get it when it was relevant. It is safe though, no-one ever blows it up.
Good, now we have three decks up for discussion. This should help.
EDIT: Here's what I'm thinking...
OUT Triskelion - Wins the game... when three other cards are out. Also, with infinite untaps, he's not the only card that can win me the game. Without those 3 cards, his effetc is underwhelming, and overcosted. Vesuvan Shapeshifter - A pet card of mine. I realized I took out Brine Elemental long ago. Without the hard lock, VS isn't that great. If I'm going to combo win, it better be more flashy than a disappointing VS/BE lock. This combo feels cheap (like ripped off cheap). Aquastrand Spider - I hate topdecking this guy. He's great early game, but his ability isn't nearly as relevant as most of the others. I took out Cytospawn Shambler earlier for similar reasons, and Shambler was much, much better (and cooler-looking) than this guy.
IN Garruk Wildspeaker, Memnarch, and Karn Silver Golem - Combo time. Much better than Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines. Also, none are dead cards by themselves
on the EDH forum i read about a combo with Kraj, where you turn planeswalkers in to artifact creatures with Memnarch and Mycosyth Lattice, and then a card like March of the Machines to turn all artifacts into artifact creatures and then put +1/+1 counters on them with Kraj, and then Kraj can use the planeswalkers abilities an infinite amount of times a turn because it isnt a planeswalker it's a creature so it doesn't have the planeswalker limit of one ability per turn. I think this combo should be explored lol not viable at all because its like 7 cards but it is WIN with style points
on the EDH forum i read about a combo with Kraj, where you turn planeswalkers in to artifact creatures with Memnarch and Mycosyth Lattice, and then a card like March of the Machines to turn all artifacts into artifact creatures and then put +1/+1 counters on them with Kraj, and then Kraj can use the planeswalkers abilities an infinite amount of times a turn because it isnt a planeswalker it's a creature so it doesn't have the planeswalker limit of one ability per turn. I think this combo should be explored lol not viable at all because its like 7 cards but it is WIN with style points
It's gone off a few times for me. I use Memnarch and Karn instead of Lattice and March, but the combo is the same. I also had infinite mana going, so I stole all the permanents on the board with Memnarch, then comboed off.
The problem is that more often than not your opponents will see it coming a mile away and either stop it in its tracks or just concede on the spot. Yeah its only a four card combo so its not that hard to assemble, but all the cards are good on their own, combo aside. I figured, what the hell, might make for some interesting scenarios. I've never actually had it going as of yet but the thought of it is pretty cool.
The problem is that more often than not your opponents will see it coming a mile away and either stop it in its tracks or just concede on the spot. Yeah its only a four card combo so its not that hard to assemble, but all the cards are good on their own, combo aside. I figured, what the hell, might make for some interesting scenarios. I've never actually had it going as of yet but the thought of it is pretty cool.
Exactly. It doesn't happen often.
Risk, any new developments lately? Speculations for Zendikar?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have decided to make Kraj my casual/fun general to be used in pick up games since he is such a blast to play and not entirely overwhelming like Momir Vig, who is inevitably more competitive and not exactly fun to play against. However, don't be fooled. Kraj can definitely win games too.
1x Thought Courier
1x Rootwater Thief
1x Ertai, Wizard Adept
1x Vigean Graftmage
1x Leech Bonder
1x Tradewind Rider
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Body Double
1x Quicksilver Elemental
1x Morphling
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Draining Whelk
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Devoted Druid
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Eternal Witness
1x Spike Feeder
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Elvish Piper
1x Spike Weaver
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Cytoplast Root-Kin
1x Genesis
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Spike Tiller
1x Vigor
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Feral Hydra
1x Cold-Eyed Selkie
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Murkfiend Liege
1x Masticore
1x Triskelavus
1x Krosan Grip
1x Capsize
1x Hinder
1x Voidslime
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Cryptic Command
1x Desertion
1x Life from the Loam
1x Primal Command
1x Spitting Image
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Intruder Alarm
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Opposition
1x Doubling Season
1x Sol Ring
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Simic Signet
1x Coalition Relic
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Crystal Shard
1x Cauldron of Souls
1x Tropical Island
1x Breeding Pool
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Skyshroud Forest
1x Flooded Grove
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Undiscovered Paradise
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Tolaria West
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Remote Isle
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Island
1x Snow-Covered Island
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1x Pendelhaven
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Treetop Village
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Slippery Karst
1x Tree of Tales
1x Forest
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Maze of Ith
1x Vesuva
1x Academy Ruins
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Wasteland
1x Novijen, Heart of Progress
In a nutshell. Most of the changes to the deck can be seen in the overall mana curve as it is greatly improved from the previous deck. The early turns focus on building up mana and a reasonable board presence. Mana acceleration isn't as important here as is mana ramping and ensuring consistent land drops. Otherwise, I have come to a new philosophy with regards to untapping Kraj; namely that free untaps are good, even if it requires you bouncing one of your own forests (tempo loss) to do so (see Quirion Ranger and Scryb Ranger). This tempo loss can also be mitigated by the newly included Oracle of Mul Daya and even capitolized upon by the landfall guys, Tideforce Elemental and Avenger of Zendikar. The rest of the changes basically included many previously missing EDH staples instead of some of the narrow or lesser used cards from the previous list. This new version has been much more consistent than its predecessor.
1x Experiment Kraj
Creatures (40)
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Quirion Ranger
1x Scute Mob
1x Enclave Cryptologist
1x Bloom Tender
1x Devoted Druid
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Seeker of Skybreak
1x Utopia Tree
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fertilid
1x Krosan Restorer
1x Spike Feeder
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Sage of Fables
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Elvish Piper
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Spike Weaver
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Tradewind Rider
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Thornling
1x Morphling
1x Murkfiend Liege
1x Vigor
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Draining Whelk
1x Triskelion
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Krosan Tusker
1x Woodfall Primus
Artifacts (8)
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Simic Signet
1x Coalition Relic
1x Crystal Shard
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantments (3)
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Doubling Season
1x Treachery
Instants (6)
1x Capsize
1x Hinder
1x Cryptic Command
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Desertion
1x Voidslime
Sorceries (5)
1x Primal Command
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Rite of Replication
1x Bribery
1x Spitting Image
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Breeding Pool
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Flooded Grove
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Mirrodin's Core
1x Vivid Grove
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1x Treetop Village
1x Vivid Creek
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1x Tolaria West
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Novijen, Heart of Progress
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Vesuva
9x Forest
6x Island
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Not to say its good; infact its terrible for highlander, but its just SO fun when you pull it off.
One of my personal fav's that not too many people see is Psionic Sliver and Vigor. That and Cauldron of Souls and Novijen, Heart of Progress.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Surivival of the Fittest is good in just about any deck that can support it, especially when you run cards like Genesis, Eternal Witness, and Body Double. SotF and it's half-brother Defense of the Heart are great in this deck.
Sakashima the Impostor has been awesome in my opinion, she took the place of Quicksilver Elemental, which I used to run. She can copy anybody (even other Legends) as I am sure you realize, and she isn't as narrow as QE, which is entirely dependent on another creature with a relevant activated ability to be even remotely good, and if the other creature leaves play, Sakashima still retains the abilities unlike QE. But i do really like QE, it was just never there when i needed it i suppose.
Mind Over Matter is actually a recent addition and I am still testing it out to see if it merits inclusion. It is obscenely good with Arcanis and can give you a clutch, no-mana-required, tap or untap that can be gamebreaking in this deck in particular.
Intruder Alarm is an old favorite of mine that has combo written all over it. Intruder Alarm + Spike Tiller + Forbidden Orchard is good times. It also allows me obscene untaps on opponents turns, especially against creature-heavy decks. It is also really good with Triskelavus or Elvish Piper.
TBH i have been on the fence in regards to the Sliver for a while now. There is something about him that i really like, but more often than not he is simply underwhelming. I should probably really reconsider his slot. There are times when he can be really really good and quickly become really really big (with Vigor), but again I've really been unsure about him lately. Maybe QE will find his way back in after all.
I think your deck looks very good as well, especially for just having made it and I am glad to see that it is sans Jace/Garruk, March of the Machines, and Mycosynth Lattice. The only suggestion that immediately comes to mind is to add a few more land. You won't regret it. I currently have 36 + Maze and that is still too low imo. Otherwise focus on incorporating cards that provide untaps and you are set.
Some other cards that you may want to look into that have been absolutely stellar for me are...
Merfolk Looter: great in highlander in general and can give Kraj flying to boot.
Morphling: i know he is tough to get a hold of but he is worth it, nuff said.
Jodah's Avenger: ever wished kraj had shadow and/or doublestrike when he becomes insanely huge?
Elvish Piper: alot of your guys are pretty expensive/mana intensive so this will help out dramatically. Couple this with all of your untapping effects and you've got yourself a party.
Cauldron of Souls: with all of your graft guys and ways to distribute counters this can make you virtually immune to Wrath, etc. Fairly new to my list and I haven't regretted it once.
...and yes, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir deserves the slot.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Yes, I meant Rootwater Thief, not the Looter.
Meloku is good, and yes, probably better off on her own as you have mentioned (since you don't play Kraj very often) but I assure you IF you play Kraj and have Morphling on the board, it gets absolutely amazing.
I am looking at cutting Jugan, the Rising Star, Mind over Matter, and Psionic Sliver in favor of Quicksilver Elemental, Crystal Shard, and Waterfront Bouncer.
Mycoloth, while good just doesn't seem necessary to me. I have no need for tokens unless they sac to deal 1 damage in the case of Triskelavus.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
-1 Survival of the Fittest
-1 Genesis
-1 Gifts Ungiven
-1 Tolarian Academy
-1 Wasteland
+1 Rings of Brighthearth
+1 Elvish Aberration
+1 Thornling (when he is released)
+1 Winding Canyons
+1 Ghost Quarter
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
On the works:
Leyline Deck Wins:symbu:Null 'n Void:symbu:
Decks built:
:symg::symb::symr::symw::symu:ChangelingsUWRBG
:symru:16 land Ignite Memories Combo:symru:
:symbu:Hunted Singularity:symbu:
Elvish Aberration and Gilder Bairn is pretty tech. so is forestcycling.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1x Merfolk Looter
1x Thought Courier
1x Sage of Fables
1x Vigean Graftmage
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Tradewind Rider
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Morphling
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Draining Whelk
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Aquastrand Spider
1x Devoted Druid
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Wall of Roots
1x Fertilid
1x Eternal Witness
1x Spike Feeder
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Elvish Piper
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Cytoplast Root-Kin
1x Spike Weaver
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Spike Tiller
1x Thornling
1x Vigor
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Trygon Predator
1x Mystic Snake
1x Murkfiend Liege
1x Masticore
1x Triskelavus
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Prismatic Lens
1x Simic Signet
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Cauldron of Souls
1x Intruder Alarm
1x Opposition
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Doubling Season
1x Sprout Swarm
1x Capsize
1x Hinder
1x Voidslime
1x Desertion
1x Spelljack
1x Time Stop
1x Primal Command
1x Spitting Image
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Flooded Grove
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Coral Atoll
9x Island
1x Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1x Pendelhaven
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Jungle Basin
9x Forest
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Shimmering Grotto
1x Vesuva
1x Winding Canyons
1x Urza's Factory
1x Novijen, Heart of Progress
1x Academy Ruins
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1x Acidic Slime
1x Ant Queen
1x Aquastrand Spider
1x Bloom Tender
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Chord of Calling
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Cytoplast Root-Kin
1x Cytospawn Shambler
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Desertion
1x Djinn of Wishes
1x Doubling Season
1x Draining Whelk
1x Elvish Aberration
1x Elvish Piper
1x Eternal Witness
1x Evolution Vat
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Fertilid
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Genesis
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Hinder
1x Intruder Alarm
1x Jace Beleren
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Kodama’s Reach
1x Krosan Grip
1x Leech Bonder
1x Lurking Predators
1x Magus of the Future
1x Mind’s Eye
1x Morphling
1x Murkfiend Liege
1x Mycoloth
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Protean Hydra
1x Recollect
1x Rootwater Thief
1x Sage of Fables
1x Sakashima, the Impostor
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Sensei’s Divining Top
1x Simic Guildmage
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Sol Ring
1x Spike Tiller
1x Spike Weaver
1x Spitting Image
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Thornling
1x Time Warp
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Triskelion
1x Trygon Predator
1x Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1x Vigean Graftmage
1x Vigor
1x Voidslime
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Flooded Grove
1x Forbidden Orchard
13x Forest
1x High Market
13x Island
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Novijen, Heart of Progress
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Treetop Village
1x Tolaria West
1x Yavimaya Coast
I just recently discovered Djinn of Wishes + Top. Also, having Genesis in the yard + Eternal Witness, High Market, and Time Warp can make infinite turns. I decided to make some room for the High Market because of that.
Looks like our lists are pretty comparable aside from some notable disinclusions (Survival, Genesis, Mind's Eye) which are banned in my local group, and some others (Rootwater Thief, Cryptic, and Sol Ring) which I have opted not to include simply to reinforce the casual emphasis of my build. I too love playing Kraj just because he is so good in such an unconventional way, not to mention that the flavor of this deck is through the roof. May I strongly suggest the persist creatures, namely Glen Elendra Archmage and Woodfall Primus for your deck as they are amazing with all of the +1/+1 counters flying around via graft abilities or Kraj himself. Cauldron of Souls has been fantastic here too for the very same reason. The biggest weakness I have discovered with Kraj is that you routinely find yourself overextending to try to build upon his abilities and you send an open invitation for a Wrath of some sort. Persist solves many of those issues. I'm also not a huge fan of the token generators in this deck. Sure they are good with Doubling Season but otherwise they don't really help Kraj out in the least. Hope this provided some insight for you.
I actually just revamped my deck in the last week or so, I will post an update soon.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
This is very much the case in most of my games. I hate having to hold back too, because it hurts the flavor of the game for me (Kraj isn't as big as he could be? What?).
I'll try out the Cauldron, as I'm fairly sure it will improve my game. I've been meaning to put in the Archmage, but it's so hard to take out Mycoloth from this deck. I've frequently busted out 100s of tokens with him. I know that taking it out is the better decision, but for some reason I'm having trouble bringing myself to do it. Ant Queen was easier to cut.
I'm interested in your updated list. However, since you have a playgroup that has banned certain cards, it will be difficult for me to discern which cards you put in because you wanted them in, and which cards you put in as second-choice replacements. I'd be annoyed if my playgroup did any of that, tbh.
I never really liked Mycoloth myself, though he is very tempting. I tested him out for a while and I found that I never really had anything that I wanted to sacrifice to him to get him started, then again I suppose you could always just play him and stack counters on him via graft/Kraj abilities and churn out tokens like nobody's buisness. Honestly still just seems ok to me.
The aspect of your deck that I do really like, however, is your creature searching suite with Chord of Calling, Tooth and Nail, and whatnot. I currently have Primal Command but that is simply outclassed by the other two, otherwise my searching is to a minimum. I might try out the tooth and see how it works out.
Lastly, do yourself a huge favor and try to squeeze in Opposition. That card has singlehandedly won me more games than any other card in the deck. It is simply fantastic, even in multiplayer.
BTW Glen Elendra Archmage + Sage of Fables is the shiz.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Ok, so Cauldron wasn't so hard. Evolution Vat has been underperforming, and hasn't won me any games.
If I had the space, I might have included that PW combo. If nothing else, you get the effects of the 'walkers, and Karn + Cytoplast Manipulator is pretty awesome. I only use Jace, but again, the problem is what to take out. That combo is 4 cards I don't have. For example, I recently took out Sage of Fables, because she was underwhelming without the right backup in play at the same time. I added Djinn of Wishes in her place (for his interativity with Top and Doubling Season), but after your confirmation that I should use the Archmage (was teetering on the fence), Sage's value in the deckspace skyrockets.
On other news, run Tooth and Nail. It wins games. Chord is great, but TnN is always amazing for me, everytime. I'll post where I'm at now, and I'd like to see what you're running now too.
EDIT: Gah, I made cuts. I'll miss you, Mycoloth and Cytospawn Shambler. Surprizingly, I miss Shambler more. It's a shame Thornling does his job better, CS looks so damn cool, and was one of my best grafters. I want to put him back in as soon as I see an opening.
1x Acidic Slime
1x Aquastrand Spider
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Bloom Tender
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Cytoplast Root-Kin
1x Djinn of Wishes
1x Draining Whelk
1x Elvish Aberration
1x Elvish Piper
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fertilid
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Genesis
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Leech Bonder
1x Magus of the Future
1x Morphling
1x Murkfiend Liege
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Protean Hydra
1x Rootwater Thief
1x Sage of Fables
1x Sakashima, the Impostor
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Simic Guildmage
1x Spike Tiller
1x Spike Weaver
1x Thornling
1x Triskelion
1x Trygon Predator
1x Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1x Vigean Graftmage
1x Vigor
1x Cryptic Command
1x Desertion
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Hinder
1x Jace Beleren
1x Kodama’s Reach
1x Krosan Grip
1x Primal Command
1x Recollect
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Spitting Image
1x Time Warp
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Voidslime
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Doubling Season
1x Intruder Alarm
1x Lurking Predators
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Cauldron of Souls
1x Mind’s Eye
1x Sensei’s Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Breeding Pool
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Flooded Grove
1x Forbidden Orchard
13x Forest
1x High Market
13x Island
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Novijen, Heart of Progress
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Treetop Village
1x Tolaria West
1x Yavimaya Coast
How is lurking predators by the way? I sadly dont have one yet and I'm wondering if it's really worth the slot.
Another card that actually works quite nice in EDH is Stronghold Machinist (again if you are up against many Mass removal)
And Finally why is the planeswalker/Kraj Combo allways played with lattice instead of just Memnarch? for me he allways was the better choice, not only is he quite a threat on his own, he is als o tutorable (TaN on memnarch and Karn and the only thing you'll need from there is any Walker).
What do you think?
Don't ask me how but I forgot about Memnarch, he is probably better than the Lattice in this deck and is a much stronger card by itself than the Lattice ever would be.
I will try to post my decklist tonight. There are still some rough edges, particularly in the manabase, but otherwise it has been working well enough.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
You mean I have to find more room?
Glen Elendra Archmage does Machinist's job better.
Lurking Predators is good by itself. With Top, it becomes stellar. I've played games where people aren't casting their spells, because they don't want to flip my card after I activate Top with Lurk out.
Without Top - 8/10
With Top - 10/10
With Top and Djinn of Wishes -
Ok, I need to find room for Memnarch, Karn, and Garruk. What do I cut?
Enchantments:
Artifacts:
Instants:
Sorceries:
Cards that I'd like to take out but didn't find a replacement Yet:
Thousand Year Elixir -> Will be replaced with Lurking Predators
Stronghold Mchisnist ->Archmage
Sakura tribe elder-> somthing that grants me a Land every Turn, he alone is simply not good enough
Rootwater Thief -> Wihle beeing Good in a Highlander Format he's just not powerfull in Multiplayer
Hope that gives you some inspiration.
Things I tried and would Cut in your deck Would be:
Cytoplast Root Kin -> Not big enough to make a Difference and rarley really useful
Protean Hydra -> Nive but not nice enough
Triskelion -> 3 Damage is nice but not worth the Slot or the 6 Mana even though it's good fun with kray and Gilder Bairn
How is the Djinn by the Way, is he worth it?
I actually second your sentiments on Root-Kin. I like him as a grafter but he really doesn't do much besides clog up the four-slot. I recently cut Ertai, Wizard Adept from my build as well. He is very good at keeping 1 player on the ropes until you drop something on your turn, only to find yourself staring down a Wrath with no mana open to counter. He is substantially better in 1v1 despite the Muse effects.
I picked up a T&N and Memnarch online today. Couldn't afford to pass those up any longer.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Djinn is fantastic. Top whatever you want to the top of your library, then play it off of Djinn for 2UU. Djinn gets sick with Doubling Season, Gilder Bairn, or Magus of the Future/Futuresight in play. Even without Top, Djinn can sometimes save you from a clutch situation. I've used him at instant speed to flip a counterspell (to not lose the game) before.
Triskelion was on my shortlist, but he's involved in winning the game once I get infinite untaps. By setting up the untaps, I can put enough counters on him to kill everyone at once. Without that scenario, I'd definitely consider it, but you have a slot for Triskavelus, so now I'm not sure. I don't know if he's worth keeping just for that contingency. Thoughts?
I had Thousand Year Elixer and STE in an earlier version of my deck. I prefer using Skyshroud Claim over STE, and Elixer has been about as useful to me as Evolution Vat was. I never seemed to get it when it was relevant. It is safe though, no-one ever blows it up.
Good, now we have three decks up for discussion. This should help.
EDIT: Here's what I'm thinking...
OUT
Triskelion - Wins the game... when three other cards are out. Also, with infinite untaps, he's not the only card that can win me the game. Without those 3 cards, his effetc is underwhelming, and overcosted.
Vesuvan Shapeshifter - A pet card of mine. I realized I took out Brine Elemental long ago. Without the hard lock, VS isn't that great. If I'm going to combo win, it better be more flashy than a disappointing VS/BE lock. This combo feels cheap (like ripped off cheap).
Aquastrand Spider - I hate topdecking this guy. He's great early game, but his ability isn't nearly as relevant as most of the others. I took out Cytospawn Shambler earlier for similar reasons, and Shambler was much, much better (and cooler-looking) than this guy.
IN
Garruk Wildspeaker, Memnarch, and Karn Silver Golem - Combo time. Much better than Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines. Also, none are dead cards by themselves
1x Aquastrand Spider
1x Arcanis the Omnipotent
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Chameleon Colossus
1x Cytoplast Manipulator
1x Devoted Druid
1x Draining Whelk
1x Elvish Piper
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fertilid
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Jodah's Avenger
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Masticore
1x Memnarch
1x Morphling
1x Murkfiend Liege
1x Mystic Snake
1x Plaxcaster Frogling
1x Sage of Fables
1x Sakashima the Impostor
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Seedborn Muse
1x Simic Guildmage
1x Spike Feeder
1x Spike Tiller
1x Spike Weaver
1x Thornling
1x Tradewind Rider
1x Trygon Predator
1x Vigean Graftmage
1x Vigor
1x Wickerbough Elder
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Yavimaya Elder
1x Jace Beleren
1x Cauldron of Souls
1x Coalition Relic
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Oblivion Stone
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Simic Signet
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Defense of the Heart
1x Doubling Season
1x Intruder Alarm
1x Opposition
1x Capsize
1x Desertion
1x Hinder
1x Time Stop
1x Krosan Grip
1x Voidslime
1x Primal Command
1x Spitting Image
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Academy Ruins
1x Breeding Pool
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Flooded Grove
1x Forbidden Orchard
8x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
8x Island
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Novijen, Heart of Progress
1x Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1x Pendelhaven
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Skyshroud Forest
1x Springjack Pasture
1x Treetop Village
1x Faerie Conclave
1x Urza's Factory
1x Vesuva
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Winding Canyons
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Yavimaya Hollow
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
It's gone off a few times for me. I use Memnarch and Karn instead of Lattice and March, but the combo is the same. I also had infinite mana going, so I stole all the permanents on the board with Memnarch, then comboed off.
Yes, it's awesome.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Exactly. It doesn't happen often.
Risk, any new developments lately? Speculations for Zendikar?