Heyo,
First post here and was unable to find a thread already dedicated to something similar.
My hope is to reach out and ask for ways any of you have been able to combat consistent exile of target permanent.
I'll give a little bit of background to help. My buddy and I enjoy playing Commander 1v1 (we play with a 4 player group too but I can deal with the meta there). The issue is he really enjoys playing Alesha, with countless creatures like Fiend Hunter and the like with a sac outlet to basically every turn permanently exiling my creatures. Even if I exile his sac outlet, he has 5 more he can bring into play. I have adjusted my deck as well trying to bring in hexproof or shroud, but then he'll just exile the thing that gives those, putting me back to square one of no protection. Obviously I could ask him to not play that deck, but as it is his favorite deck I am looking for something to combat it so we can be competitive. I also have a non creature based storm deck that will occasionally go off and win, but I need a very favorable hand and him to not wheel me or just 5 turn kill me.
Another object is budget, so I cannot just go spend 200 plus dollars on a bunch of really good cards. Really just looking for some ideas.
Sounds like you need a bunch of grave hate. If there's nothing for Alesha to recur, she's much less effective. Stuff like Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's Crypt at the right time can really mess up her game plan. If you're in black, Bojuka Bog is alright too. If you want to go nuclear, Rest in Peace and the like can also stop dies effects.
I run Tormod's Crypt, Bojuka Bog, and Rest in Peace. I either never get them at the time I need them, or I will play them, he goes, oh well, kill it, and then continues to have another sac outlet or exile creature, etc.
I think I usually run into the issue of, I can play all my removal spells and try to stop his board and have no creatures. Or play enough creatures so he can't full swing each time without being overrun. Neither are options I'm truly fans of. Basically any creature based deck against his loses. My creature deck is a Najeela, turn 4 win if I keep the cards I need on board. My storm deck is Epic Experiment, so it takes some time to set up and then it comes down to what cards i flip. And then I play mill because I like it, but Mill versus gy recursion just makes him win faster.
I've been looking at building a Zurgo Bellstriker deck to just burn him. Another deck I've thought of building is Scorpion God. Neither of which I'm sure will do well against it. If anyone has any deck suggestions that are relatively budget friendly, that'd be helpful. I'll try to get a decklist for his deck so you can see what I'm up against, if that helps.
As the resident Alesha connoisseur, allow me to help. My least favorite thing to see is targeted grave hate. Not global. Withered Wretch and Scavenging Ooze are my worst nightmares since they allow you to spend only 1 mana to blank whatever I'm targeting, followed closely by Ground Seal, Silent Gravestone, & Grafdigger's Cage are right after (note that Alesha's ability does target).
These should be enough to keep the player off their game.
Anafenza, the Foremost based around grave hate could easily help deal with all of his things. Mardu has a much harder time recurring non-creature things, so you should just be able to do the same thing he's doing to you. Exile/destroy his stuff and the addition of green over red means you have access to much more grave hate and recursion than he will. Abzan also has more ways to protect permanents to help stop him from removing stuff. This also includes access to ramp and killing/exiling Alesha until she's uncastable.
A great way to blow him out without relying heavily on creatures is just casting Anafenza and then any boardwipe. If he can't spot remove her at that moment, all of his stuff still gets exiled when Anafenza dies/goes to the Command Zone at the same time. She's also harder to remove with the said Fiend Hunter sac outlet combo because it will also exile the Fiend Hunter at the same time, making it a one-shot move. The new Ravenous Slime is another great option too for the 99.
@3drinks Thank you for the suggestions on the targeted removal cards. I will definitely be adding those to my next order of cards. And the artifacts just seem like good editions for almost all of my decks since our meta is pretty graveyard recursion heavy.
@Kaltovei Digging the anafenza idea. Definitely something that would be great to play against him 1v1.
I think a couple of these additions to my decks should help level the playing field against him 1v1 so my decks will actually be able to do something instead of being locked down 100 percent of the time.
@3drinks Thank you for the suggestions on the targeted removal cards. I will definitely be adding those to my next order of cards. And the artifacts just seem like good editions for almost all of my decks since our meta is pretty graveyard recursion heavy.
@Kaltovei Digging the anafenza idea. Definitely something that would be great to play against him 1v1.
I think a couple of these additions to my decks should help level the playing field against him 1v1 so my decks will actually be able to do something instead of being locked down 100 percent of the time.
Thanks again for the suggestions
If you want to make Alesha squirm...consider building a Salvaging Station package with Scrabbling Claws and Phyrexian Furnace. Add Tezz the Seeker to untap them for added pressure. It almost feels too weak but the power you wield for locking all the yards is supreme.
@3drinks Those seem like an awesome combo! Since the goal is essentially that, to make him squirm 1v1, then i'll def be wielding that power lol
Plus those can go in any deck!
A note about furnace. Graveyard order matters. Make sure players know that rearranging their graveyard is a no no as there are cards that care about order, so rearranging when not instructed to isn't just a cute advantage, its downright Cheating - game state manipulation.
This reply may be too late. I read that one of your options is storm. What is your primary deck?
If this is still a persistent issue then you could consider a deck that doesn't get phased by targeted exile too easily. Something like a green/x ramp deck, but make sure you have a nice compliment of generic removal spells beast within/putrify/assassin's trophy/etc) so the quick master of cruelties doesn't get you.
Focus on land ramp over mana-dorks, but run the obvious turn-1 birds/elves and maybe cobra and Sylvan Caryatid, and spend the first few turns building up mana to cast hard-to-deal with threats. If you ramp up to a turn-4 sigarda or boundless realms, or chain-value effects like woodland bellower into whatever, then targeted exile isn't going to really hurt you as much.
The weakness to dega is the reliance on artifact ramp, or low-cmc effects that can be outclassed by higher cmc threats you can deploy. If the alesha deck runs a high volume of mana rocks then you can punish them with bane of progress/reclamation sage/acidic slime effects, or just mass-bounce.
Green/blue is my most hated color combination because of this, but it is effective against most fair decks. If you focus on etb-ramp and spell land-ramp you can then plug in devastation tide/crush of tentacles to go with the obvious cyclonic rift. If your ramp is strong enough you can also just Kederekt Leviathan them and if the fat fish survives then you can clone lock till they find an exile spell, all while you just get more etb value off whatever you're bouncing.
I've recently been running an Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle deck, which is basically exactly this. Yes I know I'm a hypocrite, and I doubt the deck will last much longer. I treat Arix as an explosive vegetation in the command zone, and only use him when I can get some undeniable value or try to combo off with pemmin's aura. Arix is very good at pushing me into the late game unless my opponents happen upon a strip mine.
The weakness to dega is the reliance on artifact ramp, or low-cmc effects that can be outclassed by higher cmc threats you can deploy. If the alesha deck runs a high volume of mana rocks then you can punish them with bane of progress/reclamation sage/acidic slime effects, or just mass-bounce.
No it's not. Don't need rock-ramp and low cmc effects aren't outclassed when it gets my game plan moving faster than your game plan can start. Your four drop means nothing when I'm dropping two two's, or a three and a two on the return. I hate, hate, hate this insistence that the format somehow only rewards big mana plays. Your suggestion is great at punishing a battlecruiser deck who's curve starts at five, but otherwise the only way you're going to abuse K-Leviathan loops is with necromancy.
Your strategy to durdle with bouncing and replaying mulldrifters and acidic slimes is a poor one, and one that will fail to gain any ground in the face of in the face of any sphere effect, any eidolon of rhetoric, because you're not able to interact in a meaningful way before your turn five.
You want to shut this down? Design hard permission, not durdle-ramp.
Im not saying a durdle ramp deck is the end-all answer to your alesha build, but it is a potential option.
A good uninterrupted ramp deck should be working with 5ish mana around turn 3. What would an alesha deck do if something like sigarda, host of herons or a bellower into disruption or landfall baloth + fetch land came out at the same time Alesha was ready to attack? Even something as generic as sun/grave/frost/inferno titan being ramped out at the time alesha is resolving two 2cmc attackers seems bad for the alesha player.
Adding that the alesha player might get lucky and draw or tutor for a silver bullet also seems like you are over-defending alesha. It is also entirly possible for the ramp deck to get a lucky card or find a tutor. I've only been suggesting fair 6cmc threats but things like survival of the fittest, natural order, and bullets against alesha could also be found.
Unless you have an anger in the 'yard, leviathan loops would probably just end the game. Doesn't matter if the ramp deck is gaining small value every turn with generic etb junk if it prevents the opponents deck from functioning the way it should. Sure the alesha deck could get some good etb value too, but I'm not sure it would compete with the inevitability from ramp or draw from a generic green/x deck.
It really depends on the speed of each deck. Does Alesha come out swinging on or before turn-3 after setting up an entomb, or did it have interaction to stall the ramp deck, or did the ramp deck curve adequately into a relevant threat.
Tldr - more than just graveyard hate and hard permission can be good against alesha.
First post here and was unable to find a thread already dedicated to something similar.
My hope is to reach out and ask for ways any of you have been able to combat consistent exile of target permanent.
I'll give a little bit of background to help. My buddy and I enjoy playing Commander 1v1 (we play with a 4 player group too but I can deal with the meta there). The issue is he really enjoys playing Alesha, with countless creatures like Fiend Hunter and the like with a sac outlet to basically every turn permanently exiling my creatures. Even if I exile his sac outlet, he has 5 more he can bring into play. I have adjusted my deck as well trying to bring in hexproof or shroud, but then he'll just exile the thing that gives those, putting me back to square one of no protection. Obviously I could ask him to not play that deck, but as it is his favorite deck I am looking for something to combat it so we can be competitive. I also have a non creature based storm deck that will occasionally go off and win, but I need a very favorable hand and him to not wheel me or just 5 turn kill me.
Another object is budget, so I cannot just go spend 200 plus dollars on a bunch of really good cards. Really just looking for some ideas.
Thanks
I think I usually run into the issue of, I can play all my removal spells and try to stop his board and have no creatures. Or play enough creatures so he can't full swing each time without being overrun. Neither are options I'm truly fans of. Basically any creature based deck against his loses. My creature deck is a Najeela, turn 4 win if I keep the cards I need on board. My storm deck is Epic Experiment, so it takes some time to set up and then it comes down to what cards i flip. And then I play mill because I like it, but Mill versus gy recursion just makes him win faster.
I've been looking at building a Zurgo Bellstriker deck to just burn him. Another deck I've thought of building is Scorpion God. Neither of which I'm sure will do well against it. If anyone has any deck suggestions that are relatively budget friendly, that'd be helpful. I'll try to get a decklist for his deck so you can see what I'm up against, if that helps.
These should be enough to keep the player off their game.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
A great way to blow him out without relying heavily on creatures is just casting Anafenza and then any boardwipe. If he can't spot remove her at that moment, all of his stuff still gets exiled when Anafenza dies/goes to the Command Zone at the same time. She's also harder to remove with the said Fiend Hunter sac outlet combo because it will also exile the Fiend Hunter at the same time, making it a one-shot move. The new Ravenous Slime is another great option too for the 99.
@Kaltovei Digging the anafenza idea. Definitely something that would be great to play against him 1v1.
I think a couple of these additions to my decks should help level the playing field against him 1v1 so my decks will actually be able to do something instead of being locked down 100 percent of the time.
Thanks again for the suggestions
If you want to make Alesha squirm...consider building a Salvaging Station package with Scrabbling Claws and Phyrexian Furnace. Add Tezz the Seeker to untap them for added pressure. It almost feels too weak but the power you wield for locking all the yards is supreme.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Plus those can go in any deck!
A note about furnace. Graveyard order matters. Make sure players know that rearranging their graveyard is a no no as there are cards that care about order, so rearranging when not instructed to isn't just a cute advantage, its downright Cheating - game state manipulation.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
If this is still a persistent issue then you could consider a deck that doesn't get phased by targeted exile too easily. Something like a green/x ramp deck, but make sure you have a nice compliment of generic removal spells beast within/putrify/assassin's trophy/etc) so the quick master of cruelties doesn't get you.
Focus on land ramp over mana-dorks, but run the obvious turn-1 birds/elves and maybe cobra and Sylvan Caryatid, and spend the first few turns building up mana to cast hard-to-deal with threats. If you ramp up to a turn-4 sigarda or boundless realms, or chain-value effects like woodland bellower into whatever, then targeted exile isn't going to really hurt you as much.
The weakness to dega is the reliance on artifact ramp, or low-cmc effects that can be outclassed by higher cmc threats you can deploy. If the alesha deck runs a high volume of mana rocks then you can punish them with bane of progress/reclamation sage/acidic slime effects, or just mass-bounce.
Green/blue is my most hated color combination because of this, but it is effective against most fair decks. If you focus on etb-ramp and spell land-ramp you can then plug in devastation tide/crush of tentacles to go with the obvious cyclonic rift. If your ramp is strong enough you can also just Kederekt Leviathan them and if the fat fish survives then you can clone lock till they find an exile spell, all while you just get more etb value off whatever you're bouncing.
I've recently been running an Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle deck, which is basically exactly this. Yes I know I'm a hypocrite, and I doubt the deck will last much longer. I treat Arix as an explosive vegetation in the command zone, and only use him when I can get some undeniable value or try to combo off with pemmin's aura. Arix is very good at pushing me into the late game unless my opponents happen upon a strip mine.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
No it's not. Don't need rock-ramp and low cmc effects aren't outclassed when it gets my game plan moving faster than your game plan can start. Your four drop means nothing when I'm dropping two two's, or a three and a two on the return. I hate, hate, hate this insistence that the format somehow only rewards big mana plays. Your suggestion is great at punishing a battlecruiser deck who's curve starts at five, but otherwise the only way you're going to abuse K-Leviathan loops is with necromancy.
Your strategy to durdle with bouncing and replaying mulldrifters and acidic slimes is a poor one, and one that will fail to gain any ground in the face of in the face of any sphere effect, any eidolon of rhetoric, because you're not able to interact in a meaningful way before your turn five.
You want to shut this down? Design hard permission, not durdle-ramp.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
A good uninterrupted ramp deck should be working with 5ish mana around turn 3. What would an alesha deck do if something like sigarda, host of herons or a bellower into disruption or landfall baloth + fetch land came out at the same time Alesha was ready to attack? Even something as generic as sun/grave/frost/inferno titan being ramped out at the time alesha is resolving two 2cmc attackers seems bad for the alesha player.
Adding that the alesha player might get lucky and draw or tutor for a silver bullet also seems like you are over-defending alesha. It is also entirly possible for the ramp deck to get a lucky card or find a tutor. I've only been suggesting fair 6cmc threats but things like survival of the fittest, natural order, and bullets against alesha could also be found.
Unless you have an anger in the 'yard, leviathan loops would probably just end the game. Doesn't matter if the ramp deck is gaining small value every turn with generic etb junk if it prevents the opponents deck from functioning the way it should. Sure the alesha deck could get some good etb value too, but I'm not sure it would compete with the inevitability from ramp or draw from a generic green/x deck.
It really depends on the speed of each deck. Does Alesha come out swinging on or before turn-3 after setting up an entomb, or did it have interaction to stall the ramp deck, or did the ramp deck curve adequately into a relevant threat.
Tldr - more than just graveyard hate and hard permission can be good against alesha.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!