Actually, he says that his store uses the MTGcommander banlist for 1v1, so those cards are allowed.
Anyways, after getting sick of playing against extinction builds with Edric, I thought I'd give this archetype a try. I think that Zur or Jeleva would be better generals though - Zur for easy access to necropotence, angel's grace/phyrexian unlife, and chant effects, Jeleva for Empty the Warrens, Seething Song, and Past in Flames.
Not sure which one is better, but I feel as if a three color general is better, even if it just means more access to mana rocks.
How's Rain of Filth? I currently feel as if the card disadvantage would be a liability in the event something gets countered.
EDIT: Whoops, just noticed you changed the general to esper colors. Do you feel like the life gain provided by Oloro is better than the backup plan of Zur -> Necro, though?
VT, seal, and ring are banned? Sorry but you can't do both styles of play. Either you'll deck yourself and cut somebody out of the multiplayer game, or just get a judge called on turn 1. I like the deck tho, illgotten gains is a good one to run. Check some of the older versions of ad tendrils and you'll find a lot of weird card draw even though they were mainly black.
Oh and since your adding white why not enlightened tutor and land tax for belcher?
Hiya, Thanks for the post but as mentioned on the top of the post this Deck follows Regular multiplier Banlist for a 1v1 competitive environment (not french Banlist ). Vampiric tutor and Sol ring are both legal in this format.
In regards to enlightened tutor, land tax and belcher the combo is cute but not realistic in this deck. we have way too many non basics that land tax cant get and enlightened tutor really doesn't do much for us nor land tax as we are trying to "go off" and win on turn 3
Actually, he says that his store uses the MTGcommander banlist for 1v1, so those cards are allowed.
Anyways, after getting sick of playing against extinction builds with Edric, I thought I'd give this archetype a try. I think that Zur or Jeleva would be better generals though - Zur for easy access to necropotence, angel's grace/phyrexian unlife, and chant effects, Jeleva for Empty the Warrens, Seething Song, and Past in Flames.
Not sure which one is better, but I feel as if a three color general is better, even if it just means more access to mana rocks.
I know everyone's been asking me why i am not playing Zur so here my answer: Playing Zur right now is like beating a dead horse, its been done, im tired of it and i want a new toy. (And Zur cant win on turn one )
How's Rain of Filth? I currently feel as if the card disadvantage would be a liability in the event something gets countered.
Rain of filth is an amazing card before AND after we cast Ad Nauseam. on turn 3 its a Dark ritual, on turn four its a Culling the Weak on turn 5 its a better Cabal Ritual with threshold. Remember that we dont care about losing the lands if we are casting Ad Nauseam because we are going to win right after on the same turn.
EDIT: Whoops, just noticed you changed the general to esper colors. Do you feel like the life gain provided by Oloro is better than the backup plan of Zur -> Necro, though?
Zur does nothing in this list, no enchantments. As for Necro it is actually a bad card for this combo. Sometimes after casting Ad nauseam we dont have tendrils so we need to tutor for it. Some of our tutors put the card on top of our library, we need the ability to draw it which Necro doesnt let us do. Edit: this is not true, just makes us skip draw step.
-Increase speed of combo (tutors, ramp, efficient spells, dig)
-Increase resilience of combo (discard, Orim's chant, silence, counter
If you want some possible counters, I would suggest these two: Swan Song (as you are going off, you don't care if he gets a creature) and Flusterstorm (adds to storm count, but it sounds like that is not an issue). Both cards cost only 1 mana, and both can counter instants, which is obviously your main concern.
If you want some possible counters, I would suggest these two: Swan Song (as you are going off, you don't care if he gets a creature) and Flusterstorm (adds to storm count, but it sounds like that is not an issue). Both cards cost only 1 mana, and both can counter instants, which is obviously your main concern.
Definitely like Swag song but what would you cut? i was thinking about cutting dark confidant. Hes the only real creature we have and a huge target, i rarely get to draw off him anyway.
Edit: i cut Peek card really didnt do much. Would rather just have counter in hand.
Sickening Dreams would probly still kill me even with Dark Sphere, i go down to really low life after casting Ad Nauseam. Besides we already have our win condition why add another? both require Ad Nauseam to go off so what the point having two of same thing? That and these are two cards that dont actually do anything by themselves. i know this is hard too limit in a combo deck but if you look at current list the only somewhat useless cards (by themselves) are the creatures (Memnite, Ornithopter, Phyrexian Walker, Shield Sphere, Shifting Wall) and Tormod's Crypt.
After testing, here are updates i have made too list today:
Dec 2
- Charcoal Dioman
- Ancient Tomb
- Phyrexian Tower
- Dark Confidant
- River of Tears
- Coldsteel Heart
+ Fellwar Stone
+ Windswept Heath
+ Arid Mesa
+ Ancient den
+ Enlightened Tutor
+ Talisman of Progress
+ Lions eye Diamond
Cut lions eye diamond today then realized how bad an idea that was so put it immediately back in lol.
Lemme know what you think of changes
Also:
these are cards im currently maybe looking to add, not sure what to cut
After testing, here are updates i have made too list today:
Dec 2
- Charcoal Dioman
- Ancient Tomb
- Phyrexian Tower
- Dark Confidant
- River of Tears
- Coldsteel Heart
+ Fellwar Stone
+ Windswept Heath
+ Arid Mesa
+ Ancient den
+ Enlightened Tutor
+ Talisman of Progress
+ Lions eye Diamond
Cut lions eye diamond today then realized how bad an idea that was so put it immediately back in lol.
Lemme know what you think of changes
Also:
these are cards im currently maybe looking to add, not sure what to cut
You don't have access to a Force of Will, do you? I scanned quickly but saw no mention of it in other posts.
I have a force of will, I just don't want it in list. 5 life off Ad nauseam is way too much, remember we are trying to keep curve low to ensure we get the cards needed to go off.
Also b/c of the list's low blue count, which means you often won't have a card to pitch.
That too, forgot to mention it.
So far made a little change today, Peer through Depths seems to be testing better then Sign in Blood simply due to the fact that it digs more for Ad Nauseam and only requires 1 U vs BB
Even if you have enough blue to cast, that's total of 6 life after you grab from AN. By then you'll be on the red. For most part, FoW is some of the cards that don't want to reveal with AN.
Even if you have enough blue to cast, that's total of 6 life after you grab from AN. By then you'll be on the red. For most part, FoW is some of the cards that don't want to reveal with AN.
You are absolutely correct. We have no control whatsoever as to what Ad Nauseam flips for us. Honestly, iv only had 1 game so far where i was unable to win after casting Ad nauseam the reason being was because i never saw a free mana source before getting too low a life (so i discarded, kept yawgmoth's Will and won next turn lol :D)
Whats normally key in getting off with Ad Nauseam is a free mana source (Mana Crypt, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal) we require at least one of these after casting Ad Nauseam (assuming you tapped out to cast it) to start our chain of mana and storm, without it were dead in the water and cant do anything till next turn after discarding everything. To ensure we draw one of them we need a low enough curve to draw as many cards as possible. Right now im convinced the curve is low enough but im still open for upgrades
For digging into the deck Portent is a very good choice. The card draw is delayed, but for one mana you can dig as deep as with Ponder.
Cool, never even heard of the card. Was actually thinking of cutting Ancestral Vision due to the fast its only good on turn one. Even if cast on turn one, most of the time we win before we even get to draw so whats the point?
Ill definitely make the change and test it out unless you think something else deserves getting cut.
I have been testing this deck with friends with proxies, and I seem to be having trouble against Zur when they draw a disruption-heavy hand, though sometimes they just don't have it and we win on turn 2/3. Same thing with Edric, but that matchup seems easier since they have less disruption and no discard/nevermore to annoy us with. I would say that Zur would be 45/55 for us and Edric 55/45.
It does great against non-blue decks and also extinction builds built to kill Zur/Edric (Something like 70/30), though it drops random games against people with Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia/Gaddock Teeg - is there a way around this? Perhaps add in a single piece of removal just to deal with these annoying creatures?
Edit: I kept Confidant and removed Shifting Wall - the fact that opponents mulligan away their removal against us makes it really likely that Confidant survives, which will win us the game. I also added Spell Pierce for Retract, which I found wasn't always necessary, since we can tutor for Hurkyl's, and other stuff like Yawgmoth's will or tutor chaining will let us go to 20 storm already.
I have been testing this deck with friends with proxies, and I seem to be having trouble against Zur when they draw a disruption-heavy hand, though sometimes they just don't have it and we win on turn 2/3. Same thing with Edric, but that matchup seems easier since they have less disruption and no discard/nevermore to annoy us with. I would say that Zur would be 45/55 for us and Edric 55/45.
Agreed 100% on Zur Match-up, i find that the counterspells package they have are easier to power through then the discarding of our relevant spells, unfortunately there is nothing we can really do about it. Edric i would almost put around 60/40. No discard, only counterspells which we can manage.
It does great against non-blue decks and also extinction builds built to kill Zur/Edric (Something like 70/30), though it drops random games against people with Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia/Gaddock Teeg - is there a way around this? Perhaps add in a single piece of removal just to deal with these annoying creatures?
Edit: I kept Confidant and removed Shifting Wall - the fact that opponents mulligan away their removal against us makes it really likely that Confidant survives, which will win us the game. I also added Spell Pierce for Retract, which I found wasn't always necessary, since we can tutor for Hurkyl's, and other stuff like Yawgmoth's will or tutor chaining will let us go to 20 storm already.
I can get behind that change for Dark Confidant will re-add to list, as for removing Retract for Spell Pierce would not removing Hurkyl's Recall be better? Iv yet seen a situation where i needed to bounce opponents artifacts.
Thanks for taking this up and Testing it. Dont know how far ill be able to go with this type of deck but its fun, new and interesting
Have you considered Helm of Awakening or other effects like it? It seems like it could help improve the productivity of the mana rocks that cost more than 0, and would also make Ad Nauseam easier to cast. Something like Etherium Sculptor might even be good, though maybe not good enough, since it would only hit artifacts.
I was going to suggest Clock of Omens, but it's probably too expensive, and you might not be playing enough artifacts to make it optimally effective.
Have you considered Helm of Awakening or other effects like it? It seems like it could help improve the productivity of the mana rocks that cost more than 0, and would also make Ad Nauseam easier to cast. Something like Etherium Sculptor might even be good, though maybe not good enough, since it would only hit artifacts.
I was going to suggest Clock of Omens, but it's probably too expensive, and you might not be playing enough artifacts to make it optimally effective.
Hey thanks for the post. Helm of Awakening, Etherium Sculptor are mostly only good post Ad Nauseam. the deck is already geared in a way that Post Ad Nauseam is good enough to win. What we are trying to improve on is Pre-Ad Nauseam. Mainly, Accel, Disruption, Tutors and Counter. We are a one trick pony, we want to cast Ad Nauseam as quick as possible hence the accel, we want to ensure it resolves hence the disruption and counterspells. Anything after that is unnecessary.
Hey thanks for the post. Helm of Awakening, Etherium Sculptor are mostly only good post Ad Nauseam. the deck is already geared in a way that Post Ad Nauseam is good enough to win. What we are trying to improve on is Pre-Ad Nauseam. Mainly, Accel, Disruption, Tutors and Counter. We are a one trick pony, we want to cast Ad Nauseam as quick as possible hence the accel, we want to ensure it resolves hence the disruption and counterspells. Anything after that is unnecessary.
Edit: Testing generals again. checking if Sen Triplets is more viable. So far im actually missing the life gain due to having increased mana curve, getting down to the wire off Ad Nauseam just to make sure i can go off.
Hey thanks for the post. Helm of Awakening, Etherium Sculptor are mostly only good post Ad Nauseam. the deck is already geared in a way that Post Ad Nauseam is good enough to win. What we are trying to improve on is Pre-Ad Nauseam. Mainly, Accel, Disruption, Tutors and Counter. We are a one trick pony, we want to cast Ad Nauseam as quick as possible hence the accel, we want to ensure it resolves hence the disruption and counterspells. Anything after that is unnecessary.
That makes sense. I think I started mentally concocting a version of the combo that was more artifact-heavy.
Regarding Sen Triplets: if the goal is to get off Ad Nauseam ASAP, would you ever want/need to cast it? Oloro seems like a better choice, since you know at the very least he's going to get you 2 extra life. Unless maybe you want to go 5-color to get access to other accel options (though I don't know offhand what those would be or if they'd even be worth it)?
That makes sense. I think I started mentally concocting a version of the combo that was more artifact-heavy.
Regarding Sen Triplets: if the goal is to get off Ad Nauseam ASAP, would you ever want/need to cast it? Oloro seems like a better choice, since you know at the very least he's going to get you 2 extra life. Unless maybe you want to go 5-color to get access to other accel options (though I don't know offhand what those would be or if they'd even be worth it)?
I dont think 5 color is necessary at this point, im leaning more towards Oloro at this moment but Sen Triplets is better vs Zur i think. helps us more in the long term plan.
Ah, has anyone mentioned Lake of the Dead? It's not as good as the rituals, but it's redundancy for your B accel. Granted, the earliest you could use it to get BBBB is turn 3, so it might be too slow, and a well-timed Watseland could completely blow you out.
Ah, has anyone mentioned Lake of the Dead? It's not as good as the rituals, but it's redundancy for your B accel. Granted, the earliest you could use it to get BBBB is turn 3, so it might be too slow, and a well-timed Watseland could completely blow you out.
Ya with a format running both Strip Mine and Wasteland running Lake of the damned is too risky. Iv never actually tried it but i know its not worth the potential ramp.
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Anyways, after getting sick of playing against extinction builds with Edric, I thought I'd give this archetype a try. I think that Zur or Jeleva would be better generals though - Zur for easy access to necropotence, angel's grace/phyrexian unlife, and chant effects, Jeleva for Empty the Warrens, Seething Song, and Past in Flames.
Not sure which one is better, but I feel as if a three color general is better, even if it just means more access to mana rocks.
How's Rain of Filth? I currently feel as if the card disadvantage would be a liability in the event something gets countered.
EDIT: Whoops, just noticed you changed the general to esper colors. Do you feel like the life gain provided by Oloro is better than the backup plan of Zur -> Necro, though?
Hiya, Thanks for the post but as mentioned on the top of the post this Deck follows Regular multiplier Banlist for a 1v1 competitive environment (not french Banlist ). Vampiric tutor and Sol ring are both legal in this format.
In regards to enlightened tutor, land tax and belcher the combo is cute but not realistic in this deck. we have way too many non basics that land tax cant get and enlightened tutor really doesn't do much for us nor land tax as we are trying to "go off" and win on turn 3
I know everyone's been asking me why i am not playing Zur so here my answer: Playing Zur right now is like beating a dead horse, its been done, im tired of it and i want a new toy. (And Zur cant win on turn one )
Rain of filth is an amazing card before AND after we cast Ad Nauseam. on turn 3 its a Dark ritual, on turn four its a Culling the Weak on turn 5 its a better Cabal Ritual with threshold. Remember that we dont care about losing the lands if we are casting Ad Nauseam because we are going to win right after on the same turn.
Zur does nothing in this list, no enchantments. As for Necro it is actually a bad card for this combo. Sometimes after casting Ad nauseam we dont have tendrils so we need to tutor for it. Some of our tutors put the card on top of our library, we need the ability to draw it which Necro doesnt let us do. Edit: this is not true, just makes us skip draw step.
If you want some possible counters, I would suggest these two: Swan Song (as you are going off, you don't care if he gets a creature) and Flusterstorm (adds to storm count, but it sounds like that is not an issue). Both cards cost only 1 mana, and both can counter instants, which is obviously your main concern.
Everything combos with Tombstone Stairwell.
Definitely like Swag song but what would you cut? i was thinking about cutting
dark confidant. Hes the only real creature we have and a huge target, i rarely get todraw off him anyway.Edit: i cut Peek card really didnt do much. Would rather just have counter in hand.
Post Khans Naya Aggro
Cockatrice Tag: K1R1TO
Sickening Dreams would probly still kill me even with Dark Sphere, i go down to really low life after casting Ad Nauseam. Besides we already have our win condition why add another? both require Ad Nauseam to go off so what the point having two of same thing? That and these are two cards that dont actually do anything by themselves. i know this is hard too limit in a combo deck but if you look at current list the only somewhat useless cards (by themselves) are the creatures (Memnite, Ornithopter, Phyrexian Walker, Shield Sphere, Shifting Wall) and Tormod's Crypt.
Dec 2
- Charcoal Dioman
- Ancient Tomb
- Phyrexian Tower
- Dark Confidant
- River of Tears
- Coldsteel Heart
+ Fellwar Stone
+ Windswept Heath
+ Arid Mesa
+ Ancient den
+ Enlightened Tutor
+ Talisman of Progress
+ Lions eye Diamond
Cut lions eye diamond today then realized how bad an idea that was so put it immediately back in lol.
Lemme know what you think of changes
Also:
these are cards im currently maybe looking to add, not sure what to cut
Dispel
Peer Through Depths
thinking trading Peer Through Depths for Sign in blood
Edit: meant to edit last post not make a new one
Everything combos with Tombstone Stairwell.
I have a force of will, I just don't want it in list. 5 life off Ad nauseam is way too much, remember we are trying to keep curve low to ensure we get the cards needed to go off.
That too, forgot to mention it.
So far made a little change today, Peer through Depths seems to be testing better then Sign in Blood simply due to the fact that it digs more for Ad Nauseam and only requires 1 U vs BB
Still trying to find a suitable cut for Dispel
Decks come a Long way since original list, quite happy with changes and how it is preforming.
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Created By: DarkNightCavalier
You are absolutely correct. We have no control whatsoever as to what Ad Nauseam flips for us. Honestly, iv only had 1 game so far where i was unable to win after casting Ad nauseam the reason being was because i never saw a free mana source before getting too low a life (so i discarded, kept yawgmoth's Will and won next turn lol :D)
Whats normally key in getting off with Ad Nauseam is a free mana source (Mana Crypt, Mox Opal, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Lotus Petal) we require at least one of these after casting Ad Nauseam (assuming you tapped out to cast it) to start our chain of mana and storm, without it were dead in the water and cant do anything till next turn after discarding everything. To ensure we draw one of them we need a low enough curve to draw as many cards as possible. Right now im convinced the curve is low enough but im still open for upgrades
Everything combos with Tombstone Stairwell.
Cool, never even heard of the card. Was actually thinking of cutting Ancestral Vision due to the fast its only good on turn one. Even if cast on turn one, most of the time we win before we even get to draw so whats the point?
Ill definitely make the change and test it out unless you think something else deserves getting cut.
It does great against non-blue decks and also extinction builds built to kill Zur/Edric (Something like 70/30), though it drops random games against people with Ethersworn Canonist/Thalia/Gaddock Teeg - is there a way around this? Perhaps add in a single piece of removal just to deal with these annoying creatures?
Edit: I kept Confidant and removed Shifting Wall - the fact that opponents mulligan away their removal against us makes it really likely that Confidant survives, which will win us the game. I also added Spell Pierce for Retract, which I found wasn't always necessary, since we can tutor for Hurkyl's, and other stuff like Yawgmoth's will or tutor chaining will let us go to 20 storm already.
Agreed 100% on Zur Match-up, i find that the counterspells package they have are easier to power through then the discarding of our relevant spells, unfortunately there is nothing we can really do about it. Edric i would almost put around 60/40. No discard, only counterspells which we can manage.
Currently the only removal/catch all we have is a single Chain of Vapor which we can tutor for as needed. (For Zur match-up that run Aura of Silence, Nevermore, Rule Of Law, these just ruin us.)
I can get behind that change for Dark Confidant will re-add to list, as for removing Retract for Spell Pierce would not removing Hurkyl's Recall be better? Iv yet seen a situation where i needed to bounce opponents artifacts.
Thanks for taking this up and Testing it. Dont know how far ill be able to go with this type of deck but its fun, new and interesting
I was going to suggest Clock of Omens, but it's probably too expensive, and you might not be playing enough artifacts to make it optimally effective.
Derevi, Empyrial TacticianWUGMultiplayer
Hey thanks for the post. Helm of Awakening, Etherium Sculptor are mostly only good post Ad Nauseam. the deck is already geared in a way that Post Ad Nauseam is good enough to win. What we are trying to improve on is Pre-Ad Nauseam. Mainly, Accel, Disruption, Tutors and Counter. We are a one trick pony, we want to cast Ad Nauseam as quick as possible hence the accel, we want to ensure it resolves hence the disruption and counterspells. Anything after that is unnecessary.
Edit: Testing generals again. checking if Sen Triplets is more viable. So far im actually missing the life gain due to having increased mana curve, getting down to the wire off Ad Nauseam just to make sure i can go off.
That makes sense. I think I started mentally concocting a version of the combo that was more artifact-heavy.
Regarding Sen Triplets: if the goal is to get off Ad Nauseam ASAP, would you ever want/need to cast it? Oloro seems like a better choice, since you know at the very least he's going to get you 2 extra life. Unless maybe you want to go 5-color to get access to other accel options (though I don't know offhand what those would be or if they'd even be worth it)?
Derevi, Empyrial TacticianWUGMultiplayer
I dont think 5 color is necessary at this point, im leaning more towards Oloro at this moment but Sen Triplets is better vs Zur i think. helps us more in the long term plan.
Derevi, Empyrial TacticianWUGMultiplayer
Ya with a format running both Strip Mine and Wasteland running Lake of the damned is too risky. Iv never actually tried it but i know its not worth the potential ramp.