Thanks for the suggestions. I think my Kaalia deck is not set up to take advantage of cards where "each player" has to discard. I guess I can hope that my reanimator package is ready when I try to make everybody discard. Maybe I'll go get Stupor and Hymn to Tourach. If I can do this to the Jhoira player enough, maybe he will stop playing with those devastating spells and take it down a notch (or use a different deck).
Yes. Rakdos his board. Jhoira tends to lack a board presence(until things come off suspend) so you should be fast enough here. Also adding in Cataclysm-effects is sure to mess up his plans. Eventually, he'll get the message and realize nobody likes Jhoira haha.
also, ideally, the mass discard spells shouldn't have as much of an effect on you anyway as you should be dropping cards like mana rocks, kill spells, a threat or two, and lands at usually a faster rate than anyone else. So while you may discard three to Delirium Skeins, it won't actually feel like it because you're running your hand out first. Hand presence becomes board presence, in a sense. If that makes any sense.
Yes. Rakdos his board. Jhoira tends to lack a board presence(until things come off suspend) so you should be fast enough here. Also adding in Cataclysm-effects is sure to mess up his plans. Eventually, he'll get the message and realize nobody likes Jhoira haha.
I'm going to have to re-do my Kaalia deck for the next Commander/EDH game to deal with Ghave, Guru of Spores and Jhoira of the Ghitu. The same player plays both. My deck can handle Ghave, but it seems very vulnerable to suspend and combo shenanigans. In the first game I played (of the two) against Jhoira, I managed to get Iona, Shield of Emeria out, but I named blue, which allowed him to suspend the red spells. I may also have to bring in Defense Grid to stop his counterspell package (it's mostly esoteric counterspells, not the tier 1 cards)
I can see why you chose a discard package in the 1 vs. 1 version to stop combo-oriented decks mentioned in your description.
I'm going to try to get Mind Twist, Unnerve, Rix, and Delirium Skeins to do some minor hand disruption. Liliana costs too much for my tastes and pulls the deck further away from my theme. Not to mention, Planeswalkers are not good against tokens.
also, ideally, the mass discard spells shouldn't have as much of an effect on you anyway as you should be dropping cards like mana rocks, kill spells, a threat or two, and lands at usually a faster rate than anyone else. So while you may discard three to Delirium Skeins, it won't actually feel like it because you're running your hand out first. Hand presence becomes board presence, in a sense. If that makes any sense.
I understand what you are saying. By the time I would cast Delirium Skeins, my hand should be shrinking rapidly because I would have cast or put things onto the battlefield.
I'm going to have to re-do my Kaalia deck for the next Commander/EDH game to deal with Ghave, Guru of Spores and Jhoira of the Ghitu. The same player plays both. My deck can handle Ghave, but it seems very vulnerable to suspend and combo shenanigans. In the first game I played (of the two) against Jhoira, I managed to get Iona, Shield of Emeria out, but I named blue, which allowed him to suspend the red spells. I may also have to bring in Defense Grid to stop his counterspell package (it's mostly esoteric counterspells, not the tier 1 cards)
I can see why you chose a discard package in the 1 vs. 1 version to stop combo-oriented decks mentioned in your description.
I'm going to try to get Mind Twist, Unnerve, Rix, and Delirium Skeins to do some minor hand disruption. Liliana costs too much for my tastes and pulls the deck further away from my theme. Not to mention, Planeswalkers are not good against tokens.
I understand what you are saying. By the time I would cast Delirium Skeins, my hand should be shrinking rapidly because I would have cast or put things onto the battlefield.
Yes. Defense Grid is a total house versus those kinds of strategies, and it doesn't even hold me back much either tbh(I can Vampiric Tutor on my own upkeep as needed). And most of my removal can be played on my own turn with minimal drawback.
Yep, the discard really helps. And also greatly punishes those people who kept a shaky two-land hand with a Cultivate when I take that ramp spell and they sit there and do nothing while I continue the game plan.
Totally understand on Liliana being out of the budget, I picked mine up for $20 a few months back. She might not drop for awhile though(I suspect her to pick up a bit post-M13). Keep me posted on how this strategy goes, and if it doesn't work, we'll have to work out another way. I suspect it'll be okay though as a twist for someone's hand almost always ends their chances of winning.
3drinks, I know you primarily play 1v1 with Kaalia and that when you sometimes play in multiplayer you go the reanimator route. My question is, how is that working out?
The reason I ask is because I think I'm going to try a (multiplayer) build similar to yours. My area is pretty much all 4-5 man pods for EDH. My current Kaalia deck is just balls-to-the-wall aggro (the way I like things to be...lol) and it looks very similar to your 1v1 list, sans discard. In place of the discard spells, I just run more kill spells and mass destruction, with the exception of LD, since there are are, unfortunately, a large amount of whiny ragequitters who hate to see their Lotus Vale blown up and refuse to play, yada yada yada....I guess I eschew the proper LD route in order to keep people playing with me. :/
I'm sure you already know the problem that I have now: I run out of steam. Sure I can take out 1 or 2 players pretty quickly, but the survivor(s) will usually take me out. Methinks the reanimator route might just be the best way to go, and I know you touched up a little on the changes you make to your 1v1 deck in the primer, but if there's any advice you can give, or just some new tips you've picked up, I'm all ears.
3drinks, I know you primarily play 1v1 with Kaalia and that when you sometimes play in multiplayer you go the reanimator route. My question is, how is that working out?
The reason I ask is because I think I'm going to try a (multiplayer) build similar to yours. My area is pretty much all 4-5 man pods for EDH. My current Kaalia deck is just balls-to-the-wall aggro (the way I like things to be...lol) and it looks very similar to your 1v1 list, sans discard. In place of the discard spells, I just run more kill spells and mass destruction, with the exception of LD, since there are are, unfortunately, a large amount of whiny ragequitters who hate to see their Lotus Vale blown up and refuse to play, yada yada yada....I guess I eschew the proper LD route in order to keep people playing with me. :/
I'm sure you already know the problem that I have now: I run out of steam. Sure I can take out 1 or 2 players pretty quickly, but the survivor(s) will usually take me out. Methinks the reanimator route might just be the best way to go, and I know you touched up a little on the changes you make to your 1v1 deck in the primer, but if there's any advice you can give, or just some new tips you've picked up, I'm all ears.
You can take a look at my Kaalia list if you want some ideas. It's designed for multiplayer using reanimation, based on some of 3drinks' card choices. I won't say it's a tier 1 deck, but it works better than I imagined.
In my opinion, it's really hard to make a deck that works for both 1 vs. 1 or multiplayer unless it relies on combos. Combo decks usually don't care how many opponents it hits.
Keep me posted on how this strategy goes, and if it doesn't work, we'll have to work out another way. I suspect it'll be okay though as a twist for someone's hand almost always ends their chances of winning.
It'll be maybe a month before I can build the discard package in (i.e. acquire the cards). I will probably have to alter or remove the Sunforger package to do it.
You can take a look at my Kaalia list if you want some ideas. It's designed for multiplayer using reanimation, based on some of 3drinks' card choices. I won't say it's a tier 1 deck, but it works better than I imagined.
In my opinion, it's really hard to make a deck that works for both 1 vs. 1 or multiplayer unless it relies on combos. Combo decks usually don't care how many opponents it hits.
It looks solid! But I do wonder, is 21 creatures (18 being relevant) enough for a multiplayer build? I'm really liking Animate Dead and the Necromancy in a Kaalia build. Sheoldred, Whispering One, too, seems really good. I don't know if I'd want to do the Sunforger package...it just seems, I dunno, out of place in a really aggressive deck. But then, this is multiplayer we're talking here.
I agree with your assessment on 1v1 and multiplayer. They're like two completely different animals. If I had the money, I'd just make 2 decks for Kaalia, one for "gunslinging" and one for multiplayer.
As for combo decks, I agree too, though I can't stand playing with them. Nothing brings my piss to a boil more than shuffling and mulliganing with a whole pod for ten minutes only to have to do it again in ten more minutes cuz some knucklehead decides to tutor up their pieces and shut the game down. I prefer interaction and to "beat face." It'd be akin to character assassination for me to become a combo player.
Though in my area, unfortunately I'm beginning to see acceleration in combo decks. As the less experienced players keep losing to combo decks, they feel that they have to combo out in order to win. The game has devolved into who can build their combos the quickest and pull them off before the other players. It's kinda....not fun. That's why, no matter what deck I play, Stranglehold will ALWAYS be in it.
It looks solid! But I do wonder, is 21 creatures (18 being relevant) enough for a multiplayer build?
With the reanimation cards, it was fine for my group (a Ghave token player and a control/copy/switch control player). However, if you think your group is using a lot of graveyard hate, then you will need to add more relevant creatures.
I don't know if I'd want to do the Sunforger package...it just seems, I dunno, out of place in a really aggressive deck. But then, this is multiplayer we're talking here.
My Kaalia is not a really aggressive deck. All-in aggro Kaalia builds have a higher probability of not winning the game in multiplayer, because the deck composition is all offense (Relentless Assault and the like, Fervor, etc.). It just runs out of steam after taking out 1 player. At that point, the entire table is going to gang up on you.
I gave up cards that are tuned for offense in favor of having some flexibility. The Sunforger package is one of many packages to supplement Kaalia. You could go with a Punisher package (War's Toll, Karmic Justice, etc.), a Pillowfort package (Ghostly Prison, etc.) or a Stax package (lockdown cards). The choice is yours.
Remember that each player's Kaalia build reflects their local metagame. What works for 3drinks or me may not work for you and vice versa. Choose the "package" that will handle your metagame.
As for combo decks, I agree too, though I can't stand playing with them. Nothing brings my piss to a boil more than shuffling and mulliganing with a whole pod for ten minutes only to have to do it again in ten more minutes cuz some knucklehead decides to tutor up their pieces and shut the game down. I prefer interaction and to "beat face."
...
That's why, no matter what deck I play, Stranglehold will ALWAYS be in it.
The only card that makes Kaalia somewhat behave like a combo deck is Griselbrand, because it lets you draw cards immediately. As long as you have the life, you can draw for your answer.
My local group doesn't have strong tutoring (I have the most tutors), so I don't use Stranglehold in favor of another card.
3drinks, I know you primarily play 1v1 with Kaalia and that when you sometimes play in multiplayer you go the reanimator route. My question is, how is that working out?
The reason I ask is because I think I'm going to try a (multiplayer) build similar to yours. My area is pretty much all 4-5 man pods for EDH. My current Kaalia deck is just balls-to-the-wall aggro (the way I like things to be...lol) and it looks very similar to your 1v1 list, sans discard. In place of the discard spells, I just run more kill spells and mass destruction, with the exception of LD, since there are are, unfortunately, a large amount of whiny ragequitters who hate to see their Lotus Vale blown up and refuse to play, yada yada yada....I guess I eschew the proper LD route in order to keep people playing with me. :/
I'm sure you already know the problem that I have now: I run out of steam. Sure I can take out 1 or 2 players pretty quickly, but the survivor(s) will usually take me out. Methinks the reanimator route might just be the best way to go, and I know you touched up a little on the changes you make to your 1v1 deck in the primer, but if there's any advice you can give, or just some new tips you've picked up, I'm all ears.
Resiliency. Just keep making your guys come back. Ideally they can only take a few hits before they are legitimately in danger of dying. I actually took a multiplayer table of four with my 1v1 list(forgot the multiplayer setup that night) vs Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Sliver Overlord and Eladamri, Lord of Leaves(Elfball Combo). Sliver guy was shafted on mana after I killed his Prismatic Omen and I identified Edric as my primary target. He however resolved Edric and I took the chance to drop Kaalia in play with a Scourge of Kher Ridges to follow to keep elves in check and drew some cards taking advantage of Slivers(and a Moonveil Dragon the following turn). Elfball guy does nothing I care too much about, Edric draws a card or two, plays Murkfiend Liege, and Sliver guy tries to stick a Gemhide Sliver(of which I kill to keep him locked out). Then comes the fun part. Slivers have like seven life(been a punching bag for most people this game) so I swing Kaalia this time into Edric, bringing Rakdos the Defiler with her(to which Edric conceeds) and I send the Moonveil Dragon pumping the team twice to Slivers(which finishes him) and Scourge put a dent into Elves with them all alone. Elves try and stick Eldrazi Monument and I'm like lol, no, that doesn't stick here and Pyroclasm his guys with Scourge. With him tapped out and a dead Monument, I swing over for the game on my next turn.
So yeah, identify who possesses the greatest threat to you, and use your superior clock to ice them, and then move to the next target. I know kind of lame advice, but it works. Don't bother with politicks, it won't work when you're piloting this deck. Also, don't be afraid to pick on a struggling person(especially if it's as dangerous as Sliver-tutour) if it gets them off the board faster. This may not be fun for some people, but hey, just tell them you're playing an aggro deck in a format with forty life; they can suck it up. Lolz.
Oh yeah, refilling. I like Skeletal Scrying a lot tbh. It's an instant speed Mind Spring, who cares if you exile some spent fetchlands, and discard spells/removal? If not that, I get a lot of pseudo-CA in Swords, Planeswalker effects giving me free SLAs every turn(spell-like effects, D&D v3.5 terminology FTL haha). I guess Planeswalkers are a moot point in multiplayer though. Well, if you really feel you need it, you have Wheel of Fortune and Reforge the Soul, or perhaps better because you aren't starting everyone out fresh, is Promise of Power and another favourite of mine, Moonlight Bargain. Hopefully this helps you, no?
It'll be maybe a month before I can build the discard package in (i.e. acquire the cards). I will probably have to alter or remove the Sunforger package to do it.
I don't like Sunforger in Kaalia tbh, it takes too long to do anything for me(I don't care about the +4/+0 very much because I am fast enough anyway). I tried it though, and it was just...awkward.
It looks solid! But I do wonder, is 21 creatures (18 being relevant) enough for a multiplayer build? I'm really liking Animate Dead and the Necromancy in a Kaalia build. Sheoldred, Whispering One, too, seems really good. I don't know if I'd want to do the Sunforger package...it just seems, I dunno, out of place in a really aggressive deck. But then, this is multiplayer we're talking here.
I agree with your assessment on 1v1 and multiplayer. They're like two completely different animals. If I had the money, I'd just make 2 decks for Kaalia, one for "gunslinging" and one for multiplayer.
As for combo decks, I agree too, though I can't stand playing with them. Nothing brings my piss to a boil more than shuffling and mulliganing with a whole pod for ten minutes only to have to do it again in ten more minutes cuz some knucklehead decides to tutor up their pieces and shut the game down. I prefer interaction and to "beat face." It'd be akin to character assassination for me to become a combo player.
Though in my area, unfortunately I'm beginning to see acceleration in combo decks. As the less experienced players keep losing to combo decks, they feel that they have to combo out in order to win. The game has devolved into who can build their combos the quickest and pull them off before the other players. It's kinda....not fun. That's why, no matter what deck I play, Stranglehold will ALWAYS be in it.
18-21 creatures is just fine, because you've got to remember that our creature quality is vastly superior to most decks creatures, and with some recursion it is even overpowering. Your opponent is trying very hard to keep your threats off the board, but a lot of their removal can't penetrate these guys. Or in the case of Griselbrand, doesn't matter because I picked up a brick of cards anyway.
Also if you play very many more, you wind up with bad draws at times because you have high-costed behemoths in hand and nothing else to do(except hope Kaalia doesn't get iced...which you can only make sure of if you've kept their hand in check).
I don't like Sunforger in Kaalia tbh, it takes too long to do anything for me(I don't care about the +4/+0 very much because I am fast enough anyway). I tried it though, and it was just...awkward.
We discussed this previously, so I am aware of your disliking of it. No problem. I am using it to deal with my meta (which is not ultra competitive like the game you described), and it is useful when it comes out. I admit that it's not a convenient way of pulling answers, since I have to equip and then pay mana, and it is the only card that does this. Once I assemble some discard cards, I will likely pull this package out. I have to make sure the Jhoira player doesn't play Jhoira again (or at least not using all those "nuclear option" spells). lol
Well, if you really feel you need it, you have Wheel of Fortune and Reforge the Soul, or perhaps better because you aren't starting everyone out fresh, is Promise of Power and another favourite of mine, Moonlight Bargain. Hopefully this helps you, no?
So, we know you like Skeletal Scrying. Which of the two is better? Moonlight Bargain or Promise of Power Promise of Power sounds like a better deal.
Thanks, guys, I appreciate all the advice and recommendations. I'm definitely going to try the reanimation package. I suppose I could ease up on some of the "all-in" cards I'm packing such as Fervor and the like. Flexibility, it seems, is key.
BTW, 3drinks, I notice that you don't play Maze of Ith. Are you just worried about the mana issue in the early game? I like it for the fact that I don't have to suicide Kaalia into a blocker. Also, any thoughts on Chancellor of the Annex? I'm going to sleeve that guy up and give him a shot later. He seems...good. Lol
So, we know you like Skeletal Scrying. Which of the two is better? Moonlight Bargain or Promise of Power Promise of Power sounds like a better deal.
Hmm. I'm inclined to believe that Moonlight Bargain is better, primarily for the instant speed factor(how often do you really need to put five cards in your hand, anyway)? It also sets up later reanimation as well. Put the Necromancy and Animate Dead to your hand, bin the Iona, land, and Avacyn.
BTW, 3drinks, I notice that you don't play Maze of Ith. Are you just worried about the mana issue in the early game? I like it for the fact that I don't have to suicide Kaalia into a blocker. Also, any thoughts on Chancellor of the Annex? I'm going to sleeve that guy up and give him a shot later. He seems...good. Lol
You are correct. I don't play Maze because I've cursed one too many times at being a mana shy for something and seeing Maze on board. So naturally I cut it. And tbh, I don't really miss it either.
Also, any thoughts on Chancellor of the Annex? I'm going to sleeve that guy up and give him a shot later. He seems...good. Lol
I didn't like it, because I had too many other good Kaalia targets to use, so I don't have much experience with it.
However, if you want to create a Stax package (taxing other players and lockdown), that card might be relevant.
If you are intending to stop a counterspell player, Defense Grid is definitely the better option. As an alternative or supplement to Grid, Grand Abolisher can be used (it's cheap to cast, even if removal could get rid of it later).
3drinks, what are your thoughts of Dance of the Dead as another Animate Dead? I had considered it, but I think the upkeep cost to untap the creature might be too awkward.
If you are intending to stop a counterspell player, Defense Grid is definitely the better option. As an alternative or supplement to Grid, Grand Abolisher can be used (it's cheap to cast, even if removal could get rid of it later).
Defense Grid is GOD! I thought I was the only one playing this until I saw 3drinks' 1v1 primer, and then your list. I guess great minds think alike. LOL
As for Grand Abolisher, he was in my deck for a time but I hated how he died so easily, or he was just a "bear" most of the time. I also hate the double white in his cost. That said, he is good in that he ensures you can safely equip a Lightning Greaves or a Sword of Light and Shadow.
Right now I have 26 creatures in my build, 20 of them relevant for Kaalia, and considering what you guys have said earlier about reanimation packages and whatnot, I'm thinking of dropping a creature or two as it is. I don't think Grand Abolisher will ever make it back in there.
However, if you want to create a Stax package (taxing other players and lockdown), that card might be relevant.
3drinks, what are your thoughts of Dance of the Dead as another Animate Dead? I had considered it, but I think the upkeep cost to untap the creature might be too awkward.
True story I was just looking at Dance of the Dead a couple nights ago, it's still in a sleeve in my box lol, but ultimately, I think I am happy with my current reanimation suite, but if I did want to add it, it would most likely be over either Reya Dawnbringer or Sheoldred, Whispering One(as they both cost a lot of mana, but Reya at least has the side benefit of a relevant creature type).
Defense Grid is GOD! I thought I was the only one playing this until I saw 3drinks' 1v1 primer, and then your list. I guess great minds think alike. LOL
As for Grand Abolisher, he was in my deck for a time but I hated how he died so easily, or he was just a "bear" most of the time. I also hate the double white in his cost. That said, he is good in that he ensures you can safely equip a Lightning Greaves or a Sword of Light and Shadow.
Right now I have 26 creatures in my build, 20 of them relevant for Kaalia, and considering what you guys have said earlier about reanimation packages and whatnot, I'm thinking of dropping a creature or two as it is. I don't think Grand Abolisher will ever make it back in there.
Indeed, they do good sir...and great minds we are!
Yeah, Defense Grid is pretty fricken boss. I <3 the look on the control deck's face when they think it safe to play a t1 tap land, and I Enlightened Tutor for 'Grid. Actually it has single-handedly won a vast majority of my games versus Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind(roughly about 87%). I guess that's why the card is still about $2 despite having a reprint in 8th Edition.
Personally, I still think Grand Abolisher is worth a slot, and actually I should look into adding him to my own list. Who cares if he draws removal? That's one less spell aimed at Kaalia, as far as I'm concerned.
HI. have you tried the stoneforge + elbrus the binding blade? i´ve tried it in a multiplayer and it did a lot of damage in few turns.
Hi there.
I have indeed tried Elbrus, long ago. And I came to the conclusion it was dead without SFM, so in order to increase consistency, I tested with Stonehewer Giant as well, and it still wasn't good enough. It seems any other Sword is just more effective than the potential for Withengar Unbound.
Especially when flipped he loses to Repeal, Smother, etc style of effects as well.
Man, I am so sold on Skeletal Scrying! I picked it up, due to your recommendation, and was blown away by it. In two games it saved my ass by allowing me to draw for a kill spell during my opponent's attack and buy me another turn so I could swing in for lethal on my following turn; once I drew 4 cards and another time I drew 7. The one B in the cost makes it waaaaay better than Promise of Power.
And I'll never go back to Wheel of Fortune in this deck, just for the fact that one poor guy played it and allowed me to refilll MY hand. I'm sure you can imagine what happened next...LOL I don't ever want to give an opponent an advantage like that over me!
Man, I am so sold on Skeletal Scrying! I picked it up, due to your recommendation, and was blown away by it. In two games it saved my ass by allowing me to draw for a kill spell during my opponent's attack and buy me another turn so I could swing in for lethal on my following turn; once I drew 4 cards and another time I drew 7. The one B in the cost makes it waaaaay better than Promise of Power.
And I'll never go back to Wheel of Fortune in this deck, just for the fact that one poor guy played it and allowed me to refilll MY hand. I'm sure you can imagine what happened next...LOL I don't ever want to give an opponent an advantage like that over me!
Thanks, glad you like it. It really is one of those hidden gem style of spells.
And yeah, feeding the Kaalia deck extra cards is like playing Howling Mine against Legacy Burn. Just don't do it.
Of course, I play my own Wheel effects in non-U non-B decks (like my own Tahngarth deck) as some decks just need it. But yeah, I'm very weary about playing it when against a deck like this one we have here. Actually, it really makes me consider adding Dragon Mage to my multiplayer package to help battle multiple people so I cut the discard spells in FFA anyway. Seems I can probably get the most mileage out of it most of the time. IDK
Man, I am so sold on Skeletal Scrying! I picked it up, due to your recommendation, and was blown away by it. In two games it saved my ass by allowing me to draw for a kill spell during my opponent's attack and buy me another turn so I could swing in for lethal on my following turn; once I drew 4 cards and another time I drew 7. The one B in the cost makes it waaaaay better than Promise of Power.
And I'll never go back to Wheel of Fortune in this deck, just for the fact that one poor guy played it and allowed me to refilll MY hand. I'm sure you can imagine what happened next...LOL I don't ever want to give an opponent an advantage like that over me!
I'm on the fence myself about Wheel of Fortune in my Kaalia deck. It's undoubtedly on the short list of the best draw spells ever, but I think decks with in them that can run Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Griselbrand, and a good number of other powerful/broken draw spells might not want to run it and give cards to their opponents. In mono-:symr:, it's pretty much an auto-include, as you're almost guaranteed to be burning through your hand faster than your opponents play out theirs, so the advantage will almost certainly be yours.
I do like Skeletal Scrying. Perhaps I should be running it myself. The two downsides are that it's really painful if it gets countered and you just exiled 1/2-all your graveyard and if you are heavily reliant on recursion, in which case it might really conflict with your own recursion engines.
Actually, it really makes me consider adding Dragon Mage to my multiplayer package to help battle multiple people so I cut the discard spells in FFA anyway. Seems I can probably get the most mileage out of it most of the time. IDK
Testing will tell!
I played Dragon Mage for awhile until I realized that I didn't do much attacking with him after I played him because I needed to keep what's in my hand. I do believe that as a Kaalia player, I should be swinging with my fatties as often as possible, so if he's just sitting there then I'm not playing the deck correctly. And then there was also, unfortunately, a time where I gave a combo player all the pieces he needed after I smacked another player with Dragon Mage. I think I'm much more satisfied with Griselbrand (IF I can draw him, lol).
I'm definitely NOT saying Wheel of Fortune and Dragon Mage aren't good, in fact they're pretty amazing. I've just concluded they're not what my deck is looking for.
I do like Skeletal Scrying. Perhaps I should be running it myself. The two downsides are that it's really painful if it gets countered and you just exiled 1/2-all your graveyard and if you are heavily reliant on recursion, in which case it might really conflict with your own recursion engines.
I agree, but I think it's definitely worth the risk, IMO. Instant speed card draw for WBR is just too good to pass up. =)
One game that I played, I left Kaalia in my 'yard so I could exile her back to the command zone with Skeletal Scrying. Lol
Actually, it really makes me consider adding Dragon Mage to my multiplayer package to help battle multiple people so I cut the discard spells in FFA anyway. Seems I can probably get the most mileage out of it most of the time. IDK
Testing will tell!
I stopped using Dragon Mage after Griselbrand was released. Before Griselbrand, I used it, because it was a way to refill my hand, at the risk of giving my opponents something useful in their hands. Dragon Mage also dealt damage, so it was better than Wheel of Fortune effects.
If Grislebrand is banned, then Dragon Mage goes back in.
I do like Skeletal Scrying. Perhaps I should be running it myself. The two downsides are that it's really painful if it gets countered and you just exiled 1/2-all your graveyard and if you are heavily reliant on recursion, in which case it might really conflict with your own recursion engines.
Yeah, they're going in as soon as I get back home (on vacay this week) and have my deck in hand. Another potential downside of Skeletal Scrying, though, is that it doesn't help refill my hand early game, like if I've spewed out a bunch of mana rocks, for example. I tend to find late game draw to be pretty well covered with Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Griselbrand, etc. It tends to be smoothing out my first couple turns that I'm most concerned with. Scrying kinda fails there.
If Grislebrand is banned, then Dragon Mage goes back in.
Despite what I said about Dragon Mage, that's exactly what I'm doing should "Grizzles" get banned. Dragon Mage was what I was running before AVR anyway.
Definitely running the Grid. After last night's games, I'm may start reconsidering Grand Abolisher. I ran against a nasty Bosh, Iron Golem deck alongside a Thrax deck. He would've helped me... =/
Well, I actually got to play some games last night. Unfortunately it was FFA though so I swapped in some cool reanimator tools(including the recently discussed Dragon Mage) and tried to do some magic.
...Unfortunately, I didn't get to do much in the first game. I ate every one of Edric's counterspells, and the Sygg and Rafiq decks did a bunch of nothing while Edric killed everyone. It was...quite annoying. Game two Edric switched to Teneb and we actually got somewhere. I bring Kaalia out which led to Gisela, taking Rafiq down about 14 points. Kaalia gets axed and I let her rest and eventually I sac Gisela to High Market with a Living End on the about to resolve...then Sygg Forces it. :/
No problem, I cast Karmic Guide, which returns the Gisela and leads to Sygg eating 14 on my next turn. Then they die again. Then I cast Unburial Rites, getting back the Gisela(by this time, people are getting scared of the legendary zombie angel rofl >_>) and she bashes Sygg for another 10 before she finally gets Plow'd by Teneb(man, I'd like to plow that >____>).
By this time I actually hard cast Avacyn, which prompts Teneb to Hallowed Burial...but I sac to High Market in response. Which of course sets up for the flashback Rites on Karmic Guide, returning Avacyn. I'm so drawing dead, hitting lands and mana rocks, but at least I have some decent action in the 'Yard to keep me occupied. Trying to remember how they got rid of Avacyn the second time, but I do remember swinging with both at Sygg to finish him off(I paid Karmic's echo) and went to activate Vault of the Archangel but Teneb Myst Mazes my Avacyn(for reasons I'm unsure of) and I know I lose on this next turn.
Sorry my notes are kind of haphazard I don't remember the actual bullet points of the game, just some of the spots. I remember not hitting any draw spells and wishing that Dragon Mage would have turned up to give me some gas.
I do like Skeletal Scrying. Perhaps I should be running it myself. The two downsides are that it's really painful if it gets countered and you just exiled 1/2-all your graveyard and if you are heavily reliant on recursion, in which case it might really conflict with your own recursion engines.
Fun fact: The life loss is NOT part of the cost, but the effect. The exile is, but hey, you weren't using those cards anyway.
I stopped using Dragon Mage after Griselbrand was released. Before Griselbrand, I used it, because it was a way to refill my hand, at the risk of giving my opponents something useful in their hands. Dragon Mage also dealt damage, so it was better than Wheel of Fortune effects.
If Grislebrand is banned, then Dragon Mage goes back in.
That's the spirit. Kick Jhoira's arse where it hurts haha! I can agree that Dragon Mage isn't something I want to swing with all the time, he can kind of be like Rakdos, only back breaking in a different way. In 1v1 it's out of the question, but, and again I think more testing is required since I didn't draw it, but I think it can help stayed fueled in FFA. It can also be political, which can be a godsend for a general as aggressive as Kaalia is. Perhaps though, I am being overly generous with it.
Yeah, they're going in as soon as I get back home (on vacay this week) and have my deck in hand. Another potential downside of Skeletal Scrying, though, is that it doesn't help refill my hand early game, like if I've spewed out a bunch of mana rocks, for example. I tend to find late game draw to be pretty well covered with Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Griselbrand, etc. It tends to be smoothing out my first couple turns that I'm most concerned with. Scrying kinda fails there.
Yes, it's true it isn't great early game. In theory though the early game you are playing mana rocks and then anything you top deck you can probably cast. Or you wind up like me, and run 36 lands and then see 13 of them over the course of 10 turns. >_>
Yes. Rakdos his board. Jhoira tends to lack a board presence(until things come off suspend) so you should be fast enough here. Also adding in Cataclysm-effects is sure to mess up his plans. Eventually, he'll get the message and realize nobody likes Jhoira haha.
also, ideally, the mass discard spells shouldn't have as much of an effect on you anyway as you should be dropping cards like mana rocks, kill spells, a threat or two, and lands at usually a faster rate than anyone else. So while you may discard three to Delirium Skeins, it won't actually feel like it because you're running your hand out first. Hand presence becomes board presence, in a sense. If that makes any sense.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'm going to have to re-do my Kaalia deck for the next Commander/EDH game to deal with Ghave, Guru of Spores and Jhoira of the Ghitu. The same player plays both. My deck can handle Ghave, but it seems very vulnerable to suspend and combo shenanigans. In the first game I played (of the two) against Jhoira, I managed to get Iona, Shield of Emeria out, but I named blue, which allowed him to suspend the red spells. I may also have to bring in Defense Grid to stop his counterspell package (it's mostly esoteric counterspells, not the tier 1 cards)
I can see why you chose a discard package in the 1 vs. 1 version to stop combo-oriented decks mentioned in your description.
I'm going to try to get Mind Twist, Unnerve, Rix, and Delirium Skeins to do some minor hand disruption. Liliana costs too much for my tastes and pulls the deck further away from my theme. Not to mention, Planeswalkers are not good against tokens.
I understand what you are saying. By the time I would cast Delirium Skeins, my hand should be shrinking rapidly because I would have cast or put things onto the battlefield.
Yes. Defense Grid is a total house versus those kinds of strategies, and it doesn't even hold me back much either tbh(I can Vampiric Tutor on my own upkeep as needed). And most of my removal can be played on my own turn with minimal drawback.
Yep, the discard really helps. And also greatly punishes those people who kept a shaky two-land hand with a Cultivate when I take that ramp spell and they sit there and do nothing while I continue the game plan.
Totally understand on Liliana being out of the budget, I picked mine up for $20 a few months back. She might not drop for awhile though(I suspect her to pick up a bit post-M13). Keep me posted on how this strategy goes, and if it doesn't work, we'll have to work out another way. I suspect it'll be okay though as a twist for someone's hand almost always ends their chances of winning.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The reason I ask is because I think I'm going to try a (multiplayer) build similar to yours. My area is pretty much all 4-5 man pods for EDH. My current Kaalia deck is just balls-to-the-wall aggro (the way I like things to be...lol) and it looks very similar to your 1v1 list, sans discard. In place of the discard spells, I just run more kill spells and mass destruction, with the exception of LD, since there are are, unfortunately, a large amount of whiny ragequitters who hate to see their Lotus Vale blown up and refuse to play, yada yada yada....I guess I eschew the proper LD route in order to keep people playing with me. :/
I'm sure you already know the problem that I have now: I run out of steam. Sure I can take out 1 or 2 players pretty quickly, but the survivor(s) will usually take me out. Methinks the reanimator route might just be the best way to go, and I know you touched up a little on the changes you make to your 1v1 deck in the primer, but if there's any advice you can give, or just some new tips you've picked up, I'm all ears.
You can take a look at my Kaalia list if you want some ideas. It's designed for multiplayer using reanimation, based on some of 3drinks' card choices. I won't say it's a tier 1 deck, but it works better than I imagined.
In my opinion, it's really hard to make a deck that works for both 1 vs. 1 or multiplayer unless it relies on combos. Combo decks usually don't care how many opponents it hits.
It'll be maybe a month before I can build the discard package in (i.e. acquire the cards). I will probably have to alter or remove the Sunforger package to do it.
It looks solid! But I do wonder, is 21 creatures (18 being relevant) enough for a multiplayer build? I'm really liking Animate Dead and the Necromancy in a Kaalia build. Sheoldred, Whispering One, too, seems really good. I don't know if I'd want to do the Sunforger package...it just seems, I dunno, out of place in a really aggressive deck. But then, this is multiplayer we're talking here.
I agree with your assessment on 1v1 and multiplayer. They're like two completely different animals. If I had the money, I'd just make 2 decks for Kaalia, one for "gunslinging" and one for multiplayer.
As for combo decks, I agree too, though I can't stand playing with them. Nothing brings my piss to a boil more than shuffling and mulliganing with a whole pod for ten minutes only to have to do it again in ten more minutes cuz some knucklehead decides to tutor up their pieces and shut the game down. I prefer interaction and to "beat face." It'd be akin to character assassination for me to become a combo player.
Though in my area, unfortunately I'm beginning to see acceleration in combo decks. As the less experienced players keep losing to combo decks, they feel that they have to combo out in order to win. The game has devolved into who can build their combos the quickest and pull them off before the other players. It's kinda....not fun. That's why, no matter what deck I play, Stranglehold will ALWAYS be in it.
With the reanimation cards, it was fine for my group (a Ghave token player and a control/copy/switch control player). However, if you think your group is using a lot of graveyard hate, then you will need to add more relevant creatures.
My Kaalia is not a really aggressive deck. All-in aggro Kaalia builds have a higher probability of not winning the game in multiplayer, because the deck composition is all offense (Relentless Assault and the like, Fervor, etc.). It just runs out of steam after taking out 1 player. At that point, the entire table is going to gang up on you.
I gave up cards that are tuned for offense in favor of having some flexibility. The Sunforger package is one of many packages to supplement Kaalia. You could go with a Punisher package (War's Toll, Karmic Justice, etc.), a Pillowfort package (Ghostly Prison, etc.) or a Stax package (lockdown cards). The choice is yours.
Remember that each player's Kaalia build reflects their local metagame. What works for 3drinks or me may not work for you and vice versa. Choose the "package" that will handle your metagame.
The only card that makes Kaalia somewhat behave like a combo deck is Griselbrand, because it lets you draw cards immediately. As long as you have the life, you can draw for your answer.
My local group doesn't have strong tutoring (I have the most tutors), so I don't use Stranglehold in favor of another card.
Resiliency. Just keep making your guys come back. Ideally they can only take a few hits before they are legitimately in danger of dying. I actually took a multiplayer table of four with my 1v1 list(forgot the multiplayer setup that night) vs Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Sliver Overlord and Eladamri, Lord of Leaves(Elfball Combo). Sliver guy was shafted on mana after I killed his Prismatic Omen and I identified Edric as my primary target. He however resolved Edric and I took the chance to drop Kaalia in play with a Scourge of Kher Ridges to follow to keep elves in check and drew some cards taking advantage of Slivers(and a Moonveil Dragon the following turn). Elfball guy does nothing I care too much about, Edric draws a card or two, plays Murkfiend Liege, and Sliver guy tries to stick a Gemhide Sliver(of which I kill to keep him locked out). Then comes the fun part. Slivers have like seven life(been a punching bag for most people this game) so I swing Kaalia this time into Edric, bringing Rakdos the Defiler with her(to which Edric conceeds) and I send the Moonveil Dragon pumping the team twice to Slivers(which finishes him) and Scourge put a dent into Elves with them all alone. Elves try and stick Eldrazi Monument and I'm like lol, no, that doesn't stick here and Pyroclasm his guys with Scourge. With him tapped out and a dead Monument, I swing over for the game on my next turn.
So yeah, identify who possesses the greatest threat to you, and use your superior clock to ice them, and then move to the next target. I know kind of lame advice, but it works. Don't bother with politicks, it won't work when you're piloting this deck. Also, don't be afraid to pick on a struggling person(especially if it's as dangerous as Sliver-tutour) if it gets them off the board faster. This may not be fun for some people, but hey, just tell them you're playing an aggro deck in a format with forty life; they can suck it up. Lolz.
Oh yeah, refilling. I like Skeletal Scrying a lot tbh. It's an instant speed Mind Spring, who cares if you exile some spent fetchlands, and discard spells/removal? If not that, I get a lot of pseudo-CA in Swords, Planeswalker effects giving me free SLAs every turn(spell-like effects, D&D v3.5 terminology FTL haha). I guess Planeswalkers are a moot point in multiplayer though. Well, if you really feel you need it, you have Wheel of Fortune and Reforge the Soul, or perhaps better because you aren't starting everyone out fresh, is Promise of Power and another favourite of mine, Moonlight Bargain. Hopefully this helps you, no?
I don't like Sunforger in Kaalia tbh, it takes too long to do anything for me(I don't care about the +4/+0 very much because I am fast enough anyway). I tried it though, and it was just...awkward.
18-21 creatures is just fine, because you've got to remember that our creature quality is vastly superior to most decks creatures, and with some recursion it is even overpowering. Your opponent is trying very hard to keep your threats off the board, but a lot of their removal can't penetrate these guys. Or in the case of Griselbrand, doesn't matter because I picked up a brick of cards anyway.
Also if you play very many more, you wind up with bad draws at times because you have high-costed behemoths in hand and nothing else to do(except hope Kaalia doesn't get iced...which you can only make sure of if you've kept their hand in check).
Also, Stranglehold is awesome. I defeated a Sharuum reanimator deck because I stuck Stranglehold when he had a Demonic Tutor and a Verdant Catacombs in his hand. I won that game with that card, and a Karmic Guide--->Angel of Despair(killing his boots he had a Magister Sphinx wearing them)--->Armageddon. Then he untaps, swings, I block with pro black Guide, fail to pay the echo, rip Demonic Tutor and find Path to Exile, killing Sphinx, and bashing with Angel FTW.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
We discussed this previously, so I am aware of your disliking of it. No problem. I am using it to deal with my meta (which is not ultra competitive like the game you described), and it is useful when it comes out. I admit that it's not a convenient way of pulling answers, since I have to equip and then pay mana, and it is the only card that does this. Once I assemble some discard cards, I will likely pull this package out. I have to make sure the Jhoira player doesn't play Jhoira again (or at least not using all those "nuclear option" spells). lol
So, we know you like Skeletal Scrying. Which of the two is better? Moonlight Bargain or Promise of Power Promise of Power sounds like a better deal.
BTW, 3drinks, I notice that you don't play Maze of Ith. Are you just worried about the mana issue in the early game? I like it for the fact that I don't have to suicide Kaalia into a blocker. Also, any thoughts on Chancellor of the Annex? I'm going to sleeve that guy up and give him a shot later. He seems...good. Lol
Hmm. I'm inclined to believe that Moonlight Bargain is better, primarily for the instant speed factor(how often do you really need to put five cards in your hand, anyway)? It also sets up later reanimation as well. Put the Necromancy and Animate Dead to your hand, bin the Iona, land, and Avacyn.
You are correct. I don't play Maze because I've cursed one too many times at being a mana shy for something and seeing Maze on board. So naturally I cut it. And tbh, I don't really miss it either.
I used to run Chancellor of the Annex as I felt it complimented my Sinkhole well enough, but ultimately I cut it because my metagame could play around it(pay 1 for Tormod's Crypt, pay 2 for Sensei's Divining Top, etc).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I didn't like it, because I had too many other good Kaalia targets to use, so I don't have much experience with it.
However, if you want to create a Stax package (taxing other players and lockdown), that card might be relevant.
If you are intending to stop a counterspell player, Defense Grid is definitely the better option. As an alternative or supplement to Grid, Grand Abolisher can be used (it's cheap to cast, even if removal could get rid of it later).
3drinks, what are your thoughts of Dance of the Dead as another Animate Dead? I had considered it, but I think the upkeep cost to untap the creature might be too awkward.
Defense Grid is GOD! I thought I was the only one playing this until I saw 3drinks' 1v1 primer, and then your list. I guess great minds think alike. LOL
As for Grand Abolisher, he was in my deck for a time but I hated how he died so easily, or he was just a "bear" most of the time. I also hate the double white in his cost. That said, he is good in that he ensures you can safely equip a Lightning Greaves or a Sword of Light and Shadow.
Right now I have 26 creatures in my build, 20 of them relevant for Kaalia, and considering what you guys have said earlier about reanimation packages and whatnot, I'm thinking of dropping a creature or two as it is. I don't think Grand Abolisher will ever make it back in there.
Exactly. I would suspect Chancellor of the Annex to play a more prominent role in something like Grand Arbiter Augustine IV tbh.
True story I was just looking at Dance of the Dead a couple nights ago, it's still in a sleeve in my box lol, but ultimately, I think I am happy with my current reanimation suite, but if I did want to add it, it would most likely be over either Reya Dawnbringer or Sheoldred, Whispering One(as they both cost a lot of mana, but Reya at least has the side benefit of a relevant creature type).
Indeed, they do good sir...and great minds we are!
Yeah, Defense Grid is pretty fricken boss. I <3 the look on the control deck's face when they think it safe to play a t1 tap land, and I Enlightened Tutor for 'Grid. Actually it has single-handedly won a vast majority of my games versus Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind(roughly about 87%). I guess that's why the card is still about $2 despite having a reprint in 8th Edition.
Personally, I still think Grand Abolisher is worth a slot, and actually I should look into adding him to my own list. Who cares if he draws removal? That's one less spell aimed at Kaalia, as far as I'm concerned.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hi there.
I have indeed tried Elbrus, long ago. And I came to the conclusion it was dead without SFM, so in order to increase consistency, I tested with Stonehewer Giant as well, and it still wasn't good enough. It seems any other Sword is just more effective than the potential for Withengar Unbound.
Especially when flipped he loses to Repeal, Smother, etc style of effects as well.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
And I'll never go back to Wheel of Fortune in this deck, just for the fact that one poor guy played it and allowed me to refilll MY hand. I'm sure you can imagine what happened next...LOL I don't ever want to give an opponent an advantage like that over me!
Thanks, glad you like it. It really is one of those hidden gem style of spells.
And yeah, feeding the Kaalia deck extra cards is like playing Howling Mine against Legacy Burn. Just don't do it.
Of course, I play my own Wheel effects in non-U non-B decks (like my own Tahngarth deck) as some decks just need it. But yeah, I'm very weary about playing it when against a deck like this one we have here. Actually, it really makes me consider adding Dragon Mage to my multiplayer package to help battle multiple people so I cut the discard spells in FFA anyway. Seems I can probably get the most mileage out of it most of the time. IDK
Testing will tell!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'm on the fence myself about Wheel of Fortune in my Kaalia deck. It's undoubtedly on the short list of the best draw spells ever, but I think decks with in them that can run Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Griselbrand, and a good number of other powerful/broken draw spells might not want to run it and give cards to their opponents. In mono-:symr:, it's pretty much an auto-include, as you're almost guaranteed to be burning through your hand faster than your opponents play out theirs, so the advantage will almost certainly be yours.
I do like Skeletal Scrying. Perhaps I should be running it myself. The two downsides are that it's really painful if it gets countered and you just exiled 1/2-all your graveyard and if you are heavily reliant on recursion, in which case it might really conflict with your own recursion engines.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
I played Dragon Mage for awhile until I realized that I didn't do much attacking with him after I played him because I needed to keep what's in my hand. I do believe that as a Kaalia player, I should be swinging with my fatties as often as possible, so if he's just sitting there then I'm not playing the deck correctly. And then there was also, unfortunately, a time where I gave a combo player all the pieces he needed after I smacked another player with Dragon Mage. I think I'm much more satisfied with Griselbrand (IF I can draw him, lol).
I'm definitely NOT saying Wheel of Fortune and Dragon Mage aren't good, in fact they're pretty amazing. I've just concluded they're not what my deck is looking for.
I agree, but I think it's definitely worth the risk, IMO. Instant speed card draw for WBR is just too good to pass up. =)
One game that I played, I left Kaalia in my 'yard so I could exile her back to the command zone with Skeletal Scrying. Lol
I stopped using Dragon Mage after Griselbrand was released. Before Griselbrand, I used it, because it was a way to refill my hand, at the risk of giving my opponents something useful in their hands. Dragon Mage also dealt damage, so it was better than Wheel of Fortune effects.
If Grislebrand is banned, then Dragon Mage goes back in.
I'm picking up a discard package and Skeletal Scrying. I should hopefully be ready to Mind Twist the Jhoira player. I'm going to have to alter my deck and bring in Cataclysm and Armageddon if he wants to use Obliterate and Decree of Annihilation. Ruin his day first!
If your playgroup has counterspells, you need to play Defense Grid and Grand Abolisher.
Yeah, they're going in as soon as I get back home (on vacay this week) and have my deck in hand. Another potential downside of Skeletal Scrying, though, is that it doesn't help refill my hand early game, like if I've spewed out a bunch of mana rocks, for example. I tend to find late game draw to be pretty well covered with Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Griselbrand, etc. It tends to be smoothing out my first couple turns that I'm most concerned with. Scrying kinda fails there.
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Despite what I said about Dragon Mage, that's exactly what I'm doing should "Grizzles" get banned. Dragon Mage was what I was running before AVR anyway.
I hate Jhoira. Best of luck, sir! lol
In fact, I too am looking into getting a Cataclysm as well. 3drinks' list has completely sold me! lol
Definitely running the Grid. After last night's games, I'm may start reconsidering Grand Abolisher. I ran against a nasty Bosh, Iron Golem deck alongside a Thrax deck. He would've helped me... =/
...Unfortunately, I didn't get to do much in the first game. I ate every one of Edric's counterspells, and the Sygg and Rafiq decks did a bunch of nothing while Edric killed everyone. It was...quite annoying. Game two Edric switched to Teneb and we actually got somewhere. I bring Kaalia out which led to Gisela, taking Rafiq down about 14 points. Kaalia gets axed and I let her rest and eventually I sac Gisela to High Market with a Living End on the about to resolve...then Sygg Forces it. :/
No problem, I cast Karmic Guide, which returns the Gisela and leads to Sygg eating 14 on my next turn. Then they die again. Then I cast Unburial Rites, getting back the Gisela(by this time, people are getting scared of the legendary zombie angel rofl >_>) and she bashes Sygg for another 10 before she finally gets Plow'd by Teneb(man, I'd like to plow that >____>).
By this time I actually hard cast Avacyn, which prompts Teneb to Hallowed Burial...but I sac to High Market in response. Which of course sets up for the flashback Rites on Karmic Guide, returning Avacyn. I'm so drawing dead, hitting lands and mana rocks, but at least I have some decent action in the 'Yard to keep me occupied. Trying to remember how they got rid of Avacyn the second time, but I do remember swinging with both at Sygg to finish him off(I paid Karmic's echo) and went to activate Vault of the Archangel but Teneb Myst Mazes my Avacyn(for reasons I'm unsure of) and I know I lose on this next turn.
Sorry my notes are kind of haphazard I don't remember the actual bullet points of the game, just some of the spots. I remember not hitting any draw spells and wishing that Dragon Mage would have turned up to give me some gas.
Fun fact: The life loss is NOT part of the cost, but the effect. The exile is, but hey, you weren't using those cards anyway.
That's the spirit. Kick Jhoira's arse where it hurts haha! I can agree that Dragon Mage isn't something I want to swing with all the time, he can kind of be like Rakdos, only back breaking in a different way. In 1v1 it's out of the question, but, and again I think more testing is required since I didn't draw it, but I think it can help stayed fueled in FFA. It can also be political, which can be a godsend for a general as aggressive as Kaalia is. Perhaps though, I am being overly generous with it.
Yes, it's true it isn't great early game. In theory though the early game you are playing mana rocks and then anything you top deck you can probably cast. Or you wind up like me, and run 36 lands and then see 13 of them over the course of 10 turns. >_>
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.