how do you think about those various cmc3 Landdestruction Spells.
could they be good to hold tempo/ delay the board state to accomplish victory?
aren't they even a consideration because they are no threats?
is handdisruption enough or better suiting the aggro plan?
which matchups could they help more / less?
thank you
The problem with B LD, is there isn't enough of a critical mass of it to make it consistent. And even then, while Sinkhole is amazing, Rain of Tears is decidedly less so (I don't want to spend t3 to take out a land when I need to be applying pressure to the board).
I think the better option would be to run Contamination or Infernal Darkness. The latter of which I don't like b/c it isn't maintainable for long, the former of which we don't really have an engine to feed, outside of Blossom. Though it definitely feels stronger than Darkness. The main problem though? They are not good vs a meta of Dork decks, i.e. Yisan, Marath, etc, which laugh at Contamination.
Easier mana. Yeah we're mono coloured, but I still find 1B > BB & lose 1 life.
Tentative Update: I'm fairly confident that new 4/5 demon will replace Endless One.
As an update, I did pick up a Geth's Verdict recently, figure it can slot in next to Diabolic Edict (need more ways to beat Narset anyway). Also Innocent Blood, which I think is very good here. Likely I will slot it over Disfigure?
Oath updates
Looks like an exciting time, lots of interesting additions can be had here.
Some notes; With more nasty colourless permanents, Gray Merchant loses some of it's lustre (as well as Moon), and is happy to take a backseat to powerhouses like Smasher and the Reshaper guy. The Nighthowler effects I will be sad to see go, but some of these are immediate power vs waiting in the wings power. More edicts are on the way to give more game vs Narset, and the two "punisher" cards are acceptable because either outcome is horrifically bad - BBBB for half your life is a pretty decent burn spell, while four to time walk is equally gross. Remorseless on the other hand is...well I'm sure you can see the value.
You know that Mindbreaker Demon was an SOI spoiler and won't be legal until SOI is released right?
I think its kinda crazy to cut Gary from a mono black deck but I understand your argument. I probably wouldn't do it myself but then again I'm not as good a player as you are . The other changes look good to me. Lots of upgrades for sure.
I'm on the fence with Kalitas. Is he really that good? I feel like he's getting overhyped but I'm not the best at evaluating new cards.
You know that Mindbreaker Demon was an SOI spoiler and won't be legal until SOI is released right?
I think its kinda crazy to cut Gary from a mono black deck but I understand your argument. I probably wouldn't do it myself but then again I'm not as good a player as you are . The other changes look good to me. Lots of upgrades for sure.
I'm on the fence with Kalitas. Is he really that good? I feel like he's getting overhyped but I'm not the best at evaluating new cards.
I did not know that was when the Demon is released, although that would explain why he wasn't on the Oath spoiler.
Lol, don't sell yourself short man. You're a fine player. I'm a more outside-the-box player, with the reserved view of "very few cards can be classified as staples", so I can justify cutting Gary with all these colourless spells. Is it correct? Hard to say - but we have to start somewhere. That said I do believe I need a few more colourless lands to make these eldrazi spells castable (they're too good to not play, especiallyWarping Wail). Sea Gate Wreckage is a very hard card to evaluate here. What do you think - or should I stick to Mikokoro, Center of the Sea in it's stead? I know a couple of lands that will be getting added will be Volrath's, and PhyTow, and I believe I will also have another justification for Tower of the Magistrate (idk why, but that is exciting to me). All this utility sounds like I can reasonably add Expedition Map too.
I look at Kalitas and I am skeptical as well. But I see a lifelinking body that turns our removal into free bears (not to mention makes combat a nightmare for our opponents), as well as a repeatable (albeit mana heavy) sac out let to allow him to grow at later stages of the game. That's worth testing over Desecration, whom doesn't always get to attack (though losing a 6/6 flyer @ the four slot hurts, I will concede that point). Is Kalitas hyped? I haven't followed - I just see cards and evaluate if I have a use for them or not.
Oh, and I need to slot in Fleshbag/Executioner. A couple more edicts that can stick around and eat a Germ or outclassed one drop
I'm not sure of Sea Gate Wreckage eithor. It sounds pretty solid in theory but I can't think of very many times where I've been hellbent. Usually I try not to over extend my hand however if this was in play I'd be more tempted to. If any deck would be able to take advantage of the wreckage it would be mono coloured aggro deck like this one.
Does Hatred have a place anywhere in the 99? If not for the sole purpose of reciting the flavor text?
In theory any XB deck can justifyHatred b/c commander damage exists. But I don't see what it offers this particular deck outside of that. Additionally this deck consumes a lot of it's own life (Flesh Reaver does that ) naturally, so at times - unlike in say Wydwen, or Skithiryx (where "pay 6 life: win the game" is enticing), it may not always be such an I win.
Does Hatred have a place anywhere in the 99? If not for the sole purpose of reciting the flavor text?
In theory any XB deck can justifyHatred b/c commander damage exists. But I don't see what it offers this particular deck outside of that. Additionally this deck consumes a lot of it's own life (Flesh Reaver does that ) naturally, so at times - unlike in say Wydwen, or Skithiryx (where "pay 6 life: win the game" is enticing), it may not always be such an I win.
It's to win-more for 5 mana. Its hard to run to many 5mana cards in nongreen aggro imo. Any you do run need to be worth it.
Does Hatred have a place anywhere in the 99? If not for the sole purpose of reciting the flavor text?
In theory any XB deck can justifyHatred b/c commander damage exists. But I don't see what it offers this particular deck outside of that. Additionally this deck consumes a lot of it's own life (Flesh Reaver does that ) naturally, so at times - unlike in say Wydwen, or Skithiryx (where "pay 6 life: win the game" is enticing), it may not always be such an I win.
Yes, but commander damage is not the only way to win with Hatred. Any damage will do! But I readily concede that the risk is a lot lower if you're trying to win via commander damage.
Quote from from="FearDReaper » »
It's to win-more for 5 mana. Its hard to run to many 5mana cards in nongreen aggro imo. Any you do run need to be worth it.
I agree that it's expensive. 5 mana is a lot, especially in suicide black. But I disagree that it's a "win-more" card. Hatred wins you the game if you're ahead on life, but also allows you to eek out a win when you're behind on board, which, in my experience playing suicide black (though not in Duel Commander and certainly not with this list), can be very difficult to climb out of. If anything, it's a contingency plan when the game is going poorly, and a turn 3 win in the right (albeit narrow) situation.
Not arguing for it's inclusion here, per se. I'm no expert on this archetype. But it's still a cool card
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Yup - I remember that game last night. Shame the online version isn't quite the same as my paper list (I lack a Lashwrithe among others online), but also my list is built for DC. That 2 life from Oloro totally, totally made the difference.
Not so much the reanimation (though hasty beaters is never a bad mana sink) but more giving your constantly swinging board lifelink. The sheer level of advantage gained is worth the occasional bad top deck of it.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Not so much the reanimation (though hasty beaters is never a bad mana sink) but more giving your constantly swinging board lifelink. The sheer level of advantage gained is worth the occasional bad top deck of it.
I'm not too concerned about my life b/c if I'm in a position where I have to race, I'm generally pretty happy. And unless you're Yisan combo, or Bellstriker Sligh, you're not racing this deck.
Spirit is self-recurring and a potent sac outlet. Akuta being hasty and self-recurring (with a case being made to be commander as it works incredibly favourably with Skullclamp). The enchantment probably not that good as it's similar to Necrogen Mists, and the other being a Koth emblem for swamps that loses to Disenchant. Three out of four of these are probably worthwhile.
Spirit is self-recurring and a potent sac outlet. Akuta being hasty and self-recurring (with a case being made to be commander as it works incredibly favourably with Skullclamp). The enchantment probably not that good as it's similar to Necrogen Mists, and the other being a Koth emblem for swamps that loses to Disenchant. Three out of four of these are probably worthwhile.
So I was playing around with some stuff for this on MODO earlier, and while it's not the same (they play with fast mana and the broken tutours after all, and ten more life) but I noticed a faster clock despite not having all the things online that I have in paper (like a lashwrithe, obliterator, hangarback...). I won some games vs Mizzix (one of which b/c I Vamp Tutour'd for Necro), lost 0-2 vs a Sasaya deck (fair, Mono-G is awful for us I feel), and I blitz'd the hell out of a janky Mikaeus zombie tribal deck. After watching these games, and acknowledging cards that worked well, I came up with this list for us;
I'm not sure of Sea Gate Wreckage eithor. It sounds pretty solid in theory but I can't think of very many times where I've been hellbent.
I found myself hellbent earlier this morning, lol. Thought "Hmm, now where's that Wreckage at...". But tbh, I'd rather have had a Blood Scrivener in that situation - body on it's own, still draws an extra card if I need it, typing is sometimes relevant.
I have been running the list online as well, I will put together a tappedout list later and share the french list I have. I also have the non french version with a few games up on my youtube, I have you listed for the initial version of it!
This is my current version:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/drana-the-mono-suicide/
Only about 10 games with it so far, about 50/50 currently with the odd meta online.
I have been running the list online as well, I will put together a tappedout list later and share the french list I have. I also have the non french version with a few games up on my youtube, I have you listed for the initial version of it!
This is my current version:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/drana-the-mono-suicide/
Only about 10 games with it so far, about 50/50 currently with the odd meta online.
Your curve looks high for this archetype (2.66). Though tbh I'm not really sure how I managed a 2.25 myself.
Inkmoth doesn't add to the clock. I don't have any other Infect source, nor Kessig Wolf Run, so it really doesn't help me at all.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Easier mana. Yeah we're mono coloured, but I still find 1B > BB & lose 1 life.
Tentative Update: I'm fairly confident that new 4/5 demon will replace Endless One.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Are you talking about Necropolis Fiend?
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Yeah, I'm talking about Mindreaper. Couldn't remember it's name last night and it wasn't on the spoiler either.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The problem with B LD, is there isn't enough of a critical mass of it to make it consistent. And even then, while Sinkhole is amazing, Rain of Tears is decidedly less so (I don't want to spend t3 to take out a land when I need to be applying pressure to the board).
I think the better option would be to run Contamination or Infernal Darkness. The latter of which I don't like b/c it isn't maintainable for long, the former of which we don't really have an engine to feed, outside of Blossom. Though it definitely feels stronger than Darkness. The main problem though? They are not good vs a meta of Dork decks, i.e. Yisan, Marath, etc, which laugh at Contamination.
As an update, I did pick up a Geth's Verdict recently, figure it can slot in next to Diabolic Edict (need more ways to beat Narset anyway). Also Innocent Blood, which I think is very good here. Likely I will slot it over Disfigure?
Looks like an exciting time, lots of interesting additions can be had here.
Mox Diamond --> Warping Wail
Bad Moon --> Matter Reshaper
Endless One --> Mindbreaker Demon
Perish --> Reality Smasher
Nighthowler --> Thought-Knot Seer
Desecration Demon --> Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Disfigure --> Innocent Blood
Hero's Downfall --> Geth's Verdict
Bonehoard --> Remorseless Punishment
Gray Merchant --> Temporal Extortion
Grafted Wargear --> Captain's Claws
Eveglades --> Sea Gate Wreckage (This is what I'm most skeptical on as I'm unsure how often I can or will even want to trigger this.)
Some notes; With more nasty colourless permanents, Gray Merchant loses some of it's lustre (as well as Moon), and is happy to take a backseat to powerhouses like Smasher and the Reshaper guy. The Nighthowler effects I will be sad to see go, but some of these are immediate power vs waiting in the wings power. More edicts are on the way to give more game vs Narset, and the two "punisher" cards are acceptable because either outcome is horrifically bad - BBBB for half your life is a pretty decent burn spell, while four to time walk is equally gross. Remorseless on the other hand is...well I'm sure you can see the value.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I think its kinda crazy to cut Gary from a mono black deck but I understand your argument. I probably wouldn't do it myself but then again I'm not as good a player as you are
I'm on the fence with Kalitas. Is he really that good? I feel like he's getting overhyped but I'm not the best at evaluating new cards.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I did not know that was when the Demon is released, although that would explain why he wasn't on the Oath spoiler.
Lol, don't sell yourself short man. You're a fine player. I'm a more outside-the-box player, with the reserved view of "very few cards can be classified as staples", so I can justify cutting Gary with all these colourless spells. Is it correct? Hard to say - but we have to start somewhere. That said I do believe I need a few more colourless lands to make these eldrazi spells castable (they're too good to not play, especially Warping Wail). Sea Gate Wreckage is a very hard card to evaluate here. What do you think - or should I stick to Mikokoro, Center of the Sea in it's stead? I know a couple of lands that will be getting added will be Volrath's, and PhyTow, and I believe I will also have another justification for Tower of the Magistrate (idk why, but that is exciting to me). All this utility sounds like I can reasonably add Expedition Map too.
I look at Kalitas and I am skeptical as well. But I see a lifelinking body that turns our removal into free bears (not to mention makes combat a nightmare for our opponents), as well as a repeatable (albeit mana heavy) sac out let to allow him to grow at later stages of the game. That's worth testing over Desecration, whom doesn't always get to attack (though losing a 6/6 flyer @ the four slot hurts, I will concede that point). Is Kalitas hyped? I haven't followed - I just see cards and evaluate if I have a use for them or not.
Oh, and I need to slot in Fleshbag/Executioner. A couple more edicts that can stick around and eat a Germ or outclassed one drop
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
In theory any XB deck can justify Hatred b/c commander damage exists. But I don't see what it offers this particular deck outside of that. Additionally this deck consumes a lot of it's own life (Flesh Reaver does that
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Yes, but commander damage is not the only way to win with Hatred. Any damage will do! But I readily concede that the risk is a lot lower if you're trying to win via commander damage.
I agree that it's expensive. 5 mana is a lot, especially in suicide black. But I disagree that it's a "win-more" card. Hatred wins you the game if you're ahead on life, but also allows you to eek out a win when you're behind on board, which, in my experience playing suicide black (though not in Duel Commander and certainly not with this list), can be very difficult to climb out of. If anything, it's a contingency plan when the game is going poorly, and a turn 3 win in the right (albeit narrow) situation.
Not arguing for it's inclusion here, per se. I'm no expert on this archetype. But it's still a cool card
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Yup - I remember that game last night. Shame the online version isn't quite the same as my paper list (I lack a Lashwrithe among others online), but also my list is built for DC. That 2 life from Oloro totally, totally made the difference.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Not so much the reanimation (though hasty beaters is never a bad mana sink) but more giving your constantly swinging board lifelink. The sheer level of advantage gained is worth the occasional bad top deck of it.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I'm not too concerned about my life b/c if I'm in a position where I have to race, I'm generally pretty happy. And unless you're Yisan combo, or Bellstriker Sligh, you're not racing this deck.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Krovikan Horror, Akuta, Born of Ash, Hecatomb, Bottomless Pit
Spirit is self-recurring and a potent sac outlet. Akuta being hasty and self-recurring (with a case being made to be commander as it works incredibly favourably with Skullclamp). The enchantment probably not that good as it's similar to Necrogen Mists, and the other being a Koth emblem for swamps that loses to Disenchant. Three out of four of these are probably worthwhile.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Krovikan Horror, Akuta, Born of Ash, Hecatomb, Bottomless Pit
Spirit is self-recurring and a potent sac outlet. Akuta being hasty and self-recurring (with a case being made to be commander as it works incredibly favourably with Skullclamp). The enchantment probably not that good as it's similar to Necrogen Mists, and the other being a Koth emblem for swamps that loses to Disenchant. Three out of four of these are probably worthwhile.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1x Abyssal Persecutor
1x Akuta, Born of Ash
1x Bloodghast
1x Bloodsoaked Champion
1x Carnophage
1x Dark Confidant
1x Diregraf Ghoul
1x Dross Golem
1x Dusk Urchins
1x Erebos, God of the Dead
1x Flesh Reaver
1x Gatekeeper of Malakir
1x Gnarled Scarhide
1x Gravecrawler
1x Hangarback Walker
1x Herald of Torment
1x Matter Reshaper
1x Nantuko Shade
1x Oona's Blackguard
1x Oona's Prowler
1x Pain Seer
1x Phyrexian Obliterator
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Reaver Drone
1x Soulcage Fiend
1x Stromgald Crusader
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Tombstalker
1x Tormented Hero
1x Treacherous Pit-Dweller
1x Vampire Hexmage
1x Vampire Lacerator
1x Withered Wretch
1x Yixlid Jailer
1x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Cabal Pit
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Contested War Zone
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mutavault
1x Polluted Delta
1x Rishadan Port
24x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
Instant (8)
1x Contagion
1x Dark Ritual
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Dismember
1x Geth's Verdict
1x Snuff Out
1x Ulcerate
1x Warping Wail
Enchantment (2)
1x Bitterblossom
1x Sarcomancy
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Duress
1x Grim Discovery
1x Innocent Blood
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Night's Whisper
1x Remorseless Punishment
1x Sign in Blood
1x Temporal Extortion
1x Thoughtseize
Artifact (6)
1x Captain's Claws
1x Grafted Wargear
1x Lashwrithe
1x Mortarpod
1x Nightmare Lash
1x Skullclamp
Planeswalker (1)
1x Liliana of the Veil
I found myself hellbent earlier this morning, lol. Thought "Hmm, now where's that Wreckage at...". But tbh, I'd rather have had a Blood Scrivener in that situation - body on it's own, still draws an extra card if I need it, typing is sometimes relevant.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
This is my current version:http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/drana-the-mono-suicide/
Only about 10 games with it so far, about 50/50 currently with the odd meta online.
Your curve looks high for this archetype (2.66). Though tbh I'm not really sure how I managed a 2.25 myself.
Love that you picked up on my Pit-Stalker idea.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.