MTG Salvation

I've gone through and quickly summed up a few generals who I think are definitely worth looking into.

Anax and cymede
Exava
Olivia mobilizer of war
Marchesa the black rose
Queen marchesa
Rafiq
Ruhan
Grenzo dungeon warden
Grenzo (rr)
Tymaret
Skullbriar
Thalia
Zurgo bellstriker


Who do you think has a chance at 20 life??

Your list is missing Alesha.

I could see kytheon and radha getting looked at pretty heavily too. something like drana or kalitas also got a pretty big boost as well.

Quote from Jivanmukta »

I'd love (see: hate) to see if Purph became viable. Boy that would be infuriating.

He seems like he will be. Mono-red tokens.dec is pretty potent. I can already see the shenanigans.

Karlov, Ayli, Kambal, Teysa v1, Talrand, Omnath v1, Selvala v1 and v2, Brago, Jori En, Kaseto.

I jsut want to make a deck with Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter. That would be quite interesting.

Quote from KriggY »

Quote from Kamenitza »

Zedruu tapout control incoming <o/

Running donate combo with illusions of grandeur ?

I actually played the Zedruu Jeskai Control deck. I only played Illusions of Grandeur (combo with Venser PW) with the idea of using my commander to donate you my Spreading Seas, Detention Sphere, or Wall of Omens type cards for an extra card/life a turn. Also worked well giving you an extra of my lands late too.

This was years ago on MODO. It was quite the fun deck, not oppressive but very defensive.

Quote from KriggY »

Oh yeah, I was starting with magic when this one was big deck in extended. It kinda makes me wonder: if I have zedruu in play, can I donate it in response to the cumulative upkeep and then choose not to pay for it?

No. This was the "Thought Lash Experiment" - i.e. it used to work that way but now the cumulative upkeep "belongs" to the person who's side of the stack it triggered on, precisely because of the Zedruu-Upkeep interaction.

Quote from KriggY »

So its like I donate it, dont pay and lose life or library right?

You have to donate it to them. Then they can choose to pay the upkeep or take the consequences. If you donate it with the Upkeep on the stack, you will take the consequences.

With the Illusions of Grandeur finish I used, it was "Resolve, gain 20. Donate to you. Untap, draw my Zedruu card. Blink with Venser, the Sojourner, you lose 20. Illusions returns, gain 20. And repeat.

I create a 40 point swing every turn.

Quote from HipsterWhale »

I've gone through and quickly summed up a few generals who I think are definitely worth looking into.

Anax and cymede
Exava
Olivia mobilizer of war
Marchesa the black rose (2 Top 8 finishes)
Queen marchesa (2 Top 8 finishes)
Rafiq
Ruhan
Grenzo dungeon warden (3 Top 8 finishes)
Grenzo (rr)
Tymaret (1 Top 8 finish at a 38 player tournament http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12796&f=EDH)
Skullbriar (2 Top 8 finishes)
Thalia (3 Top 8 finishes)
Zurgo bellstriker (5 Top 8 finishes)


Who do you think has a chance at 20 life??

This is a weird thread. Several of the above decks have finished top 8 at tournaments (and this is just factoring in Post Tasigur/Yisan bans and only for tournaments recorded on MTGTop8, so there's almost certainly far more), and I've personally seen many of them kick so much ass on Cockatrice so it wasn't any kind of fluke.

Oloro will never ever be a safe unban because the best way to build the deck has 0 permanents. Your opponent is forced to put everything on the table to race you down and oloro counters what can't be wrathed and then wraths on then 4. At that point every turn you don't have a creature attacking you are losing.


It forces you into a situation you cannot beat. I played hundreds of games against oloro and did not win a single one against a skilled opponent. I can't say zur or tasigur or even edric felt as broken and degenerate.

I'm still seeing success with Karador, since its combo it can ignore aggro to a degree, and its resilient enough to handle control. Though being forced to play unusual cards like finks with the 20 life platform the deck is still fire

As the Jace/Selvala player who tested against Kamenitza's Oloro I can say that Oloro didn't feel troublesome or oppressive to me, mostly because my decks' strategies ignore the opponent's life total. The problem with Oloro when it was up against my two decks was that it lacked a way to close out a game quickly unlike Narset or Keranos, so even once I was exhausted or in a vulnerable position, it couldn't simply choose to resolve a game breaking commander or planeswalker to end the game. The deck runs fewer walkers than Narset and Keranos, and casting Oloro anytime before turn 10 is never a good idea because you've just spent 6 mana on a crappier and more vulnerable Phyrexian Arena. It needs to have Jace TMS in hand or it just durdles until I recover.
Jace is very mana efficient, so the idea when playing vs his Oloro (or any control deck really) is to trade him from the command zone for 3-5 of his removal/wraths/counters, while only countering only the important spells like planeswalkers and big draw spells. This way you win the card advantage war and Jace can stick eventually.

With Selvala I played threats every turn that had to be countered, and with the exception of Selvala, holding instant speed removal was not enough if I resolved a planeswalker or ETB creature or tutored for Eye of Ugin. The Oloro list only plays 5 board wipes, and excluding Toxic Deluge they all cost 4 mana so usually I would have won or put myself in an advantageous position to not lose once they untap with 4 mana to Wrath.
As I said before, Oloro lacks a way to close out the game quickly when compared to the current top control generals.

Monored Zurgo was somewhat viable at 30 life, so I don't see how it auto loses to Oloro now with the new life change. Assuming that 30 life Zurgo won in 5 turns against disruption, this should make it equivalent to beating 20 life Oloro in 5 turns as well because the Oloro player will be on 30 life by then and on the same playing field as any other deck before the life change. This reasoning would apply to monowhite and BW aggro, which trades speed and direct-damage burn for anthem effects, hate cards, and hand disruption. We will have to test more but I am certain that Oloro is a safe unban.

The new generals I'm most interested in are Karlov of the Ghost Council, Glissa, the Traitor and Tymaret, the Murder King. Another general that I'm hoping will be more viable but not really sure of is Sydri, Galvanic Genius.

I'm trying to make Selvala, Explorer Returned TurboFog viable!

I would remove helm before I remove a general. This is the opportunity to allow the format to breath again and achieve some of the old power level it used to have.

That said oloro is counterproductive to that as the general itself is the problem not supporting cards.

I want to say thank you to the committee for taking such bold actions at present and look forward to what you have found is safe in November.

There are several cards which we can all point to as easy unbans and while I hope you push your assumptions away and test everything I know that you will not fall to such mad inclinations such as tabernacle unbanning or monolith unbanning.

It will be exciting to see this new format.

xenagos, god of revels is another general that just got much better with the change. It was always fringe, but definitely playable at 30 life. There's a list running around my shop and it consistently does really well at 30 life since it often only takes 1-2 swings with whatever fatty to kill, and can pretty easily win on turn 5 or 6 even with a small bit of disruption, or from an empty board (minus zenagos). It will definitely get a huge boost now that it will only ever take 1 hit to kill.

Quote from jeepersbeepers »

xenagos, god of revels is another general that just got much better with the change. It was always fringe, but definitely playable at 30 life. There's a list running around my shop and it consistently does really well at 30 life since it often only takes 1-2 swings with whatever fatty to kill, and can pretty easily win on turn 5 or 6 even with a small bit of disruption, or from an empty board (minus zenagos). It will definitely get a huge boost now that it will only ever take 1 hit to kill.

His reliance on other cards is a big part of what kept him out of the format before and unfortunatly the 20 life issue doesn't change this. He is a risk/reward general but at least the reward is more worth it now. I think rafiq is just better most of the time as he doesn't rely on other cards and is cheaper.

Quote from FearDReaper »

Quote from jeepersbeepers »

xenagos, god of revels is another general that just got much better with the change. It was always fringe, but definitely playable at 30 life. There's a list running around my shop and it consistently does really well at 30 life since it often only takes 1-2 swings with whatever fatty to kill, and can pretty easily win on turn 5 or 6 even with a small bit of disruption, or from an empty board (minus zenagos). It will definitely get a huge boost now that it will only ever take 1 hit to kill.

His reliance on other cards is a big part of what kept him out of the format before and unfortunatly the 20 life issue doesn't change this. He is a risk/reward general but at least the reward is more worth it now. I think rafiq is just better most of the time as he doesn't rely on other cards and is cheaper.

He only needs one other card, and he topdecks much much better than a lot of other voltronish decks like rafiq because once you get xenagoos out every other creature and cards that put creatures on the battlefield become massive threats. I don't think he'll be tier one, but the ability to win out of nowhere that he has is virtually unmatched, and he gets a lot stronger with the life total change. I would not be at all surprised if he gets some top 8s.

At 30 life I tried besically every BR/BRx aggro deck in the game and found them all wanting. The extra 10 life was just to difficult to overcome consistantly before control stabelized or combo went off. Now that the extra life cushon is gone I can't wait to try Rakdos Aggro again. Just one question remains. Tymaret or Grenzo? Any thoughts on which is going to be the superior choice? I think I'm leaning towards Tymaret atm.

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is really good as a griselbrand control replacement.

Quote from Gemiinus »

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is really good as a griselbrand control replacement.

Have you ever tried Liliana?

I'm trying Kalitas in a Suicide Black shell. Having lifelink and a butt of 4 makes him incredibly resilient vs Zhurgo etc. A single Toxix Deluge/Massacre/Contagion/Languish can flood to board or grow your Kalitas to tremendous proportions.

I also like the fact that an early Carnophage/sarcomancy/vampire laceratorcan deal a decent amount of dmg early game and help grow Kalitas late game

Quote from FearDReaper »

Quote from Gemiinus »

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is really good as a griselbrand control replacement.

Have you ever tried Liliana?

Honestly Kalitas just seems a lot better. Makes free bodies, gets bigger, what's not to like?