Since I bought the Commander 2015 precons, I've decided to make the most of them by developing at 1v1 decklist for each. I'm not going to be taking these to tournaments or anything; the idea is to have something fun and casual that makes the most use of the product.
With Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas, I thought it would be best to play basically R/W midrange, while making the most out of equipment.
However, I'm quite new to Commander 1v1, so I got stuck when it actually came time to put things together. Specifically, these are the issues that's I'm running into:
1) Ramp in R/W. Since this commander rewards casting dudes CMC >= 5, I figured one strategy would be to try to pump these out ASAP. Kalemne's main competition will be U/G Ezuri elf ball and Meren, both of which have a fair amount of ramp, so Kalemne is going to struggle to keep up. So far, I have Tithe, Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, Knight of the White Orchid, Oreskos Explorer and then the various low-cost mana rocks and Sword of the Animist. Is there anything I'm missing? And should I even bother with the mana rocks, or just try to play a more aggressive game?
3) Finding the right balance. Kalemne doesn't have to be an all-in commander. She plays good offense and defense, meaning she doesn't have to be the sole path to victory. That being said, her stats are good: 3/3 double strike and vigilance + equipment = very fast clock. What I'm having difficulty with is striking the right balance between the smaller utility creatures, equipment, and the big beefy stuff at the high end of the curve.
For reference, here are the lists that I've been looking at for inspiration (geared towards multiplayer EDH):
The thing is, most people consider 1v1 a competitive format. And the RW commander giant is pretty... erm, terrible in 1v1. She's not that great period. There isn't really an streamline build because she'll get dominated by most other decks.
thanks for the reply! Yes, I am aware of Kalemne's limitations, and I know that these limitations are especially glaring in 1v1. But that's actually not what I have questions about. As I mentioned in my original post, Kalemne is going to be used only in a casual environment. The idea is to having something fun and casual that makes the most use of the Commander 2015 product. This thing is going to be going up against stuff like vampire tribal...
My questions are, specifically: What kind of ramp is viable in R/W, what hoser creatures at CMC 5-6 exist in this color pair that would go well with this commander, and how would one go about playing midrange in R/W (i.e., having threats at each point on the curve)?
I appreciate the help!
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Okay, so I have a lot of suggestions. I like Nobilis of War, it on its own gives kalemne a 3 power boost as soon as you cast it, upping kalemne's burst by 6 total, other things that do that include Agrus Kos, Week Veteran, and Elesh Norn sudden power boosts like that can be deafly and can close out a game very quickly. scourge of the nobilis is also excelent. Boosts her total damage output by 4, while the firebreathing is very effective on her. Bonus points to being recurable with sun titan. World at war, savage beating, and aggravated assault are all very strong with her. Multiple combat phases are how you're going to pummel your opponents, especially if you're going to be making her unblockable. rogue's passage is your friend.
Whispersilk cloak should go in, it's pretty important I think. Tenza, godo's maul is also brutal on her, giving her +3/+3 and trample. Godsend, Champions Helm, Darksteel plate, and the sword, Shield, and helm of kaldra all make her more deadly and offer various forms of protection. If you decide to include a decent instant speed package (chaos warp, crib swap, swords to plowshare, comeuppance, path to exile, return to dust, allay, shattering pulse, and some other defensive spells. Fun fact, you can fetch alay or shattering pulse with the sunforger and pay the buyback cost to put them in your hand.) then Sun Forger is probably worth considering. A cool little interaction would be to also include Mistveil Plains to put the instants you use back on the bottom of your library for sunforger to recycle. Mistveil Plains is also a plains in its typeline, which means it's searchable with anything that can search for a plains. Makes sun titan recurring a fetch land more powerful. Anyways, if you decide to go more an even mix of equipments and supporting 5+cmc creatures, puresteel paladin might be worth considering.
Tempo is more what you want than anything, consistent card draw will go a long way to keeping your opponent held down. Mind's Eye is great, and mindstone is unebelievably strong in 1 on 1 if you get sun titan out and chugging. Burnished Hart is also a powerful mana ramping engine with sun titan out. Emeria Shephard is a good recursion engine, and Emeria, the Sky Ruin can be another strong recursion engine that keeps you in the game for longer. Duplicant is good removal that's available to you, more easily cast, and can be strong between a Sac outlet and recursion. Etb tapped mana rocks aren't that great mostly, I would cut them. You have coalition relic, gilded lotus, Darksteel ingot, thran dynamo, dreamstone hedron, hedron archive, commander sphere, and thawing glaciers to guarantee land drops. Also, some of those help with card draw in order to maintain your tempo.
Anyways, there's a lot that you can use and chew on for consideration, hope it helps a bit
Greetings!
I have been playing Commander for a long time and am in the process of building my 30th deck or so (there's a somewhat current list of decks beneath my reply here). I've played a lot with several different groups and have found many specific constants as well as strengths and weaknesses. I had considered building Kalemne EDH for my wife (she plays too when I ask her). In my mind, there are two ways to build Kalemne:
1. Giant Tribal - lots of ramp and searching etc.
2. Random 5/6 drops - with etb effects.
As far as mana goes, my H. Hidetsugu & Brion Stoutarm both used to have trouble with mana, but I fixed that.
Expedition Map is excellent.
So is Gift of Estates.
Finally Braid of Fire is Awesome!!!
The key is to limit the amount of Mana Rocks to about 5-7 (with a short ramp): Sol Ring, Mind Stone, Boros Signet, Coldsteel Heart (maaaaybe), Thought Vessel, Darksteel Ingot, Chromatic Lantern, and maaaaybe Boros Keyrune. If you throw too many in there that only produce colorless mana, you'll sit waiting for a basic land to show up...
Also, definitely limit the number of Equipment that you put into the deck, it's much more useful to draw a creature than an equipment (Except for those with Living Weapon - that's part of what makes Batterskull so Awesome!).
Side-note: haste is crucial as your opponent will try to kill Kalemne after you cast it; Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, and Ring of Valkas are all essentials!
Commander is about striking the right balance, so set up a deck and try it out 2-3 times. Note the cards that feel like a waste of your time and mana, then take them out for more exciting things.
As far as Giant tribal goes:
Giant Harbinger rocks! Also, Sunrise Sovereign, Hamletback Goliath, and Borderland Behemoth are all super beefy. Inferno Titan and Magma Giant are great for spot-cleaning. Palisade Giant can help to stall.
There are a lot of other useful Giants, so do a search on Gatherer and see what feels like it will help assure Kalemne's victory!
Let me know if you are stuck between two or three specific choices (those choices can halt a deck build easily).
Thanks for the well-thought feedback! I figured the low power level of this general would leave this thread off the radar, but I'm glad to see people are interested
@tombstone - wow, I can't believe I didn't think of Sunforger. It's a bit expensive, but I think it's utility makes it better than Sword of Fire and Ice. On Kalemne, the +4/+0 is extremely threatening, and being able to fetch (and cast) removal at instant speed is exactly what this deck wants. I'm going to miss drawing cards, but I think Sunforger's instant-speed removal makes up for it. Speaking of Swords, I decided it probably only makes sense to keep Sword of Feast and Famine. In general, I think the Swords are a bit clunky (despite having originally put them in the list), but Sword of Feast and Famine's "untap all lands you control" makes it all worth it, as this deck may have no other way of casting two things per turn.
@Magus_Scroll - I ended up shying away from playing MLD because it's not a style that I'm all that familiar with, though I think it might actually be the strongest way to go. With a little bit of setup (like protection for Kalemne), you can just completely lock the opponent out of the game. However, I think I'm going to start somewhere closer to my comfort zone--some combination of ramp, good (cheap) beaters plus equipment to keep the clock going with or without Kalemne. I can't believe I forgot Zealous Conscripts and Flamerush Rider. These are pretty obvious inclusions. To answer your question, I chose Flickerwisp over Restoration Angel as a way to remove blockers, but I think resto angel is a good inclusion anyway. I made room for it.
@KingofSkep - Did not know about Gift of Estates. It's clearly stronger than Oreskos Explorer in 1v1. I considered going all giants all the time, since that was a prominent theme in the precon, but it turns out I just don't like giants. It's completely irrational, but it's the truth.
I'll update my list in the original post. Thanks everyone for your comments and criticisms!
The reason why I like Sunforger is that it helps clear the way for Kalemne when my opponent has chump blockers (fetching Volcanic Fallout or fetching spot removal. Sword of Fire and Ice, despite all it's pros, simply can't do that, and runs into nothing but brick walls if I don't have removal in-hand. Also, Sunforger doesn't require a 5-mana every turn. There is no reason to unequip when Kalemne is going to connect. However, I concede your point that it's probably better than Sword of Feast and Famine, especially if I switch over the Armageddon plan and simply won't be able to use the mana even when I untap. The one caveat being I play against a lot of green, and pro-green can go a long way. That being said, pro-red will go a long way if I start introducing things like Wildfire to the deck. Decisions, decisions!
I think you're also right about Flamerush Rider. It's only good under already desirable conditions. Seems like a win-more card that doesn't do anything when I'm not already winning. I'll probably throw in Thundermaw Hellkite as a placeholder for now until I figure out what MLD might look like. Do you have any suggestions on where to look for inspiration?
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Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
I'd get Sword of Fire and Ice back in there. Your colors have crap for card advantage in addition you get to proc it twice with your general.
I also notice a distinct lack of Sun Titan. Card is fantastic with rocks/equips that people WILL be killing if they have functional heads on their shoulders. Also it's a 6cmc giant. Total flavor bonus.
Edit: I see you removed Titan. Prolly shouldn't do that. Infinitely better than something like Flamerush Rider.
I originally had Sun Titan in the list, but traded it out for Inferno Titan. I was thinking that ETB damage would be more what this deck wanted to do, but in retrospect, it's probably better to have Sun Titan for damage control.
Alright, y'all have sold me on Sword of Fire and Ice. It's going back in
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Since I bought the Commander 2015 precons, I've decided to make the most of them by developing at 1v1 decklist for each. I'm not going to be taking these to tournaments or anything; the idea is to have something fun and casual that makes the most use of the product.
With Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas, I thought it would be best to play basically R/W midrange, while making the most out of equipment.
However, I'm quite new to Commander 1v1, so I got stuck when it actually came time to put things together. Specifically, these are the issues that's I'm running into:
1) Ramp in R/W. Since this commander rewards casting dudes CMC >= 5, I figured one strategy would be to try to pump these out ASAP. Kalemne's main competition will be U/G Ezuri elf ball and Meren, both of which have a fair amount of ramp, so Kalemne is going to struggle to keep up. So far, I have Tithe, Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, Knight of the White Orchid, Oreskos Explorer and then the various low-cost mana rocks and Sword of the Animist. Is there anything I'm missing? And should I even bother with the mana rocks, or just try to play a more aggressive game?
2) Getting the most from CMC = 5-6. Stonehewer Giant and Urabrask, the Hidden seem pretty good, as does Caldera Hellion and Godo, Bandit Warlord. What are some other high-impact creatures in that cost range that I should be considering?
3) Finding the right balance. Kalemne doesn't have to be an all-in commander. She plays good offense and defense, meaning she doesn't have to be the sole path to victory. That being said, her stats are good: 3/3 double strike and vigilance + equipment = very fast clock. What I'm having difficulty with is striking the right balance between the smaller utility creatures, equipment, and the big beefy stuff at the high end of the curve.
For reference, here are the lists that I've been looking at for inspiration (geared towards multiplayer EDH):
ISBPathfinder
GoodbyeWorld
1 Mother of Runes
1 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Relic Seeker
2 Spellskite
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Duergar Hedge-Mage
3 Flickerwisp
3 Mirran Crusader
3 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Restoration Angel
5 Balefire Liege
5 Basandra, Battle Seraph
5 Caldera Hellion
5 Thundermaw Hellkite
5 Karmic Guide
5 Stonehewer Giant
5 Urabrask the Hidden
5 Zealous Conscripts
6 Aurelia, the Warleader
6 Godo, Bandit Warlord
6 Sun Titan
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Boros Signet
1 Skullclamp
2 Coldsteel Heart
2 Defense Grid
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Mind Stone
2 Swiftfoot Boots
2 Thought Vessel
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Coalition Relic
3 Darksteel Ingot
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Sunforger
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
5 Batterskull
Instants (7)
1 Chaos Warp
1 Enightened Tutor
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Boros Charm
3 Wear // Tear
3 Volcanic Fallout
1 Faithless Looting
1 Magmatic Insight
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Tithe
2 Gift of Estates
2 Tormenting Voice
3 Anger the Gods
3 Wheel of Fortune
4 Fiery Confluence
Enchantments (3)
1 Land Tax
2 Legion's Initiative
4 Outpost Siege
Planeswalkers (2)
4 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Eslepth, Knight Errant
Lands (37)
37 Lands
- Figure of Destiny, Grim Lavamancer, Student of War, Oreskos Explorer, Hushwing Gryff, Solemn Simulacrum, Ingot Chewer, Bonesplitter, Fire Diamond, Marble Diamond, Sword of Feast and Famine, land
+ Gift of Estates, Thundermaw Hellkite, Restoration Angel, Zealous Conscripts, Defense Grid, Thought Vessel, Coalition Relic, Darksteel Ingot, Sunforger, Volcanic Fallout, Anger the Gods, Fiery Confluence
I appreciate any advice y'all can give!
List updated on 30.12.15
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
thanks for the reply! Yes, I am aware of Kalemne's limitations, and I know that these limitations are especially glaring in 1v1. But that's actually not what I have questions about. As I mentioned in my original post, Kalemne is going to be used only in a casual environment. The idea is to having something fun and casual that makes the most use of the Commander 2015 product. This thing is going to be going up against stuff like vampire tribal...
My questions are, specifically: What kind of ramp is viable in R/W, what hoser creatures at CMC 5-6 exist in this color pair that would go well with this commander, and how would one go about playing midrange in R/W (i.e., having threats at each point on the curve)?
I appreciate the help!
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Whispersilk cloak should go in, it's pretty important I think. Tenza, godo's maul is also brutal on her, giving her +3/+3 and trample. Godsend, Champions Helm, Darksteel plate, and the sword, Shield, and helm of kaldra all make her more deadly and offer various forms of protection. If you decide to include a decent instant speed package (chaos warp, crib swap, swords to plowshare, comeuppance, path to exile, return to dust, allay, shattering pulse, and some other defensive spells. Fun fact, you can fetch alay or shattering pulse with the sunforger and pay the buyback cost to put them in your hand.) then Sun Forger is probably worth considering. A cool little interaction would be to also include Mistveil Plains to put the instants you use back on the bottom of your library for sunforger to recycle. Mistveil Plains is also a plains in its typeline, which means it's searchable with anything that can search for a plains. Makes sun titan recurring a fetch land more powerful. Anyways, if you decide to go more an even mix of equipments and supporting 5+cmc creatures, puresteel paladin might be worth considering.
Tempo is more what you want than anything, consistent card draw will go a long way to keeping your opponent held down. Mind's Eye is great, and mindstone is unebelievably strong in 1 on 1 if you get sun titan out and chugging. Burnished Hart is also a powerful mana ramping engine with sun titan out. Emeria Shephard is a good recursion engine, and Emeria, the Sky Ruin can be another strong recursion engine that keeps you in the game for longer. Duplicant is good removal that's available to you, more easily cast, and can be strong between a Sac outlet and recursion. Etb tapped mana rocks aren't that great mostly, I would cut them. You have coalition relic, gilded lotus, Darksteel ingot, thran dynamo, dreamstone hedron, hedron archive, commander sphere, and thawing glaciers to guarantee land drops. Also, some of those help with card draw in order to maintain your tempo.
Anyways, there's a lot that you can use and chew on for consideration, hope it helps a bit
I have been playing Commander for a long time and am in the process of building my 30th deck or so (there's a somewhat current list of decks beneath my reply here). I've played a lot with several different groups and have found many specific constants as well as strengths and weaknesses. I had considered building Kalemne EDH for my wife (she plays too when I ask her). In my mind, there are two ways to build Kalemne:
1. Giant Tribal - lots of ramp and searching etc.
2. Random 5/6 drops - with etb effects.
As far as mana goes, my H. Hidetsugu & Brion Stoutarm both used to have trouble with mana, but I fixed that.
Expedition Map is excellent.
So is Gift of Estates.
Finally Braid of Fire is Awesome!!!
The key is to limit the amount of Mana Rocks to about 5-7 (with a short ramp): Sol Ring, Mind Stone, Boros Signet, Coldsteel Heart (maaaaybe), Thought Vessel, Darksteel Ingot, Chromatic Lantern, and maaaaybe Boros Keyrune. If you throw too many in there that only produce colorless mana, you'll sit waiting for a basic land to show up...
Also, definitely limit the number of Equipment that you put into the deck, it's much more useful to draw a creature than an equipment (Except for those with Living Weapon - that's part of what makes Batterskull so Awesome!).
Side-note: haste is crucial as your opponent will try to kill Kalemne after you cast it; Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, and Ring of Valkas are all essentials!
Commander is about striking the right balance, so set up a deck and try it out 2-3 times. Note the cards that feel like a waste of your time and mana, then take them out for more exciting things.
As far as Giant tribal goes:
Giant Harbinger rocks! Also, Sunrise Sovereign, Hamletback Goliath, and Borderland Behemoth are all super beefy. Inferno Titan and Magma Giant are great for spot-cleaning. Palisade Giant can help to stall.
There are a lot of other useful Giants, so do a search on Gatherer and see what feels like it will help assure Kalemne's victory!
Let me know if you are stuck between two or three specific choices (those choices can halt a deck build easily).
Happy Deck-building,
KingOfTheSkep
Thanks for the well-thought feedback! I figured the low power level of this general would leave this thread off the radar, but I'm glad to see people are interested
@tombstone - wow, I can't believe I didn't think of Sunforger. It's a bit expensive, but I think it's utility makes it better than Sword of Fire and Ice. On Kalemne, the +4/+0 is extremely threatening, and being able to fetch (and cast) removal at instant speed is exactly what this deck wants. I'm going to miss drawing cards, but I think Sunforger's instant-speed removal makes up for it. Speaking of Swords, I decided it probably only makes sense to keep Sword of Feast and Famine. In general, I think the Swords are a bit clunky (despite having originally put them in the list), but Sword of Feast and Famine's "untap all lands you control" makes it all worth it, as this deck may have no other way of casting two things per turn.
@Magus_Scroll - I ended up shying away from playing MLD because it's not a style that I'm all that familiar with, though I think it might actually be the strongest way to go. With a little bit of setup (like protection for Kalemne), you can just completely lock the opponent out of the game. However, I think I'm going to start somewhere closer to my comfort zone--some combination of ramp, good (cheap) beaters plus equipment to keep the clock going with or without Kalemne. I can't believe I forgot Zealous Conscripts and Flamerush Rider. These are pretty obvious inclusions. To answer your question, I chose Flickerwisp over Restoration Angel as a way to remove blockers, but I think resto angel is a good inclusion anyway. I made room for it.
@KingofSkep - Did not know about Gift of Estates. It's clearly stronger than Oreskos Explorer in 1v1. I considered going all giants all the time, since that was a prominent theme in the precon, but it turns out I just don't like giants. It's completely irrational, but it's the truth.
I'll update my list in the original post. Thanks everyone for your comments and criticisms!
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Thanks for the reply
The reason why I like Sunforger is that it helps clear the way for Kalemne when my opponent has chump blockers (fetching Volcanic Fallout or fetching spot removal. Sword of Fire and Ice, despite all it's pros, simply can't do that, and runs into nothing but brick walls if I don't have removal in-hand. Also, Sunforger doesn't require a 5-mana every turn. There is no reason to unequip when Kalemne is going to connect. However, I concede your point that it's probably better than Sword of Feast and Famine, especially if I switch over the Armageddon plan and simply won't be able to use the mana even when I untap. The one caveat being I play against a lot of green, and pro-green can go a long way. That being said, pro-red will go a long way if I start introducing things like Wildfire to the deck. Decisions, decisions!
I think you're also right about Flamerush Rider. It's only good under already desirable conditions. Seems like a win-more card that doesn't do anything when I'm not already winning. I'll probably throw in Thundermaw Hellkite as a placeholder for now until I figure out what MLD might look like. Do you have any suggestions on where to look for inspiration?
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
I also notice a distinct lack of Sun Titan. Card is fantastic with rocks/equips that people WILL be killing if they have functional heads on their shoulders. Also it's a 6cmc giant. Total flavor bonus.
Edit: I see you removed Titan. Prolly shouldn't do that. Infinitely better than something like Flamerush Rider.
Alright, y'all have sold me on Sword of Fire and Ice. It's going back in
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
Hixus, Prison Warden
Archon of Justice
Yosei, the morning star
Duplicant[card]
Angel of the Dire Hour[/card]
While he doesn't really power kalemne or provide other value, I've found Iroas pretty good. Makes kalemne so hard to block.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.