Updated with some new results. Also testing a high-end card or two in the deck, as it often runs out of gas and gets into topdecking contests (Karn Liberated).
Some results don't seem typical - I don't think Daretti or Wanderer are even close to 50-50 matchups, this deck should beat them handily, but small sample size and all. On the other side, Anafenza isn't a bye and I'm not sure 67% win rate against Narset is sustainable in the long term (maybe 55-60%?). Too many planeswalkers and such that I have a hard time dealing with if I don't happen to have a counter on hand when they're cast.
Added Tamiyo, the Moon Sage, and she has been a huge help in breaking open games in which I have a lead but am running low on cards. I'd love another card or two like this. Hibernation is out for now, as I am finding that it creates inefficiencies with things like Painter's Servant which I should always be naming blue for.
There's just so many decks that use creatures for *everything*, including removal, that I actually took out Lightning Greaves as well.
One thing I really miss is the ability to get something back from my graveyard. Snapcaster Mage and Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy can get me back an instant or sorcery, but if a creature or planeswalker hits the graveyard, it's only remaining use is fodder for delve cards. So I might try something like Codex Shredder. I don't think I'd mind at all paying 5 for an instant-speed Regrowth.
What about Recall for rescuing cards from graveyard? A 3 for 1 sounds horrible here, but it's been on my mind to rescue a Mind Over Matter in my azami deck.
I have thought about that. It's not a 3-for-1 though, it's a 2-for-1. Or a 3-for-2, in rare instances.
I actually like Codex Shredder so far. I don't do much on turn 1 (and if I do have a Force Spike, I'm using it pretty quickly), so it's not really using up mana I would have otherwise spent. It helps out with my Delve spells and my Flashback spells, and a Regrowth for 5 mana is not too bad when I can do it at end of opponent's turn at instant speed.
Fluxuate, somehow I missed your post. I tried Quiet Speculation about a month ago. I added Deep Analysis for it, but I sure do hate when I draw that card and it's a 4-mana sorcery. The problem is I really need my turn 2 and 3 to counter or bounce stuff. I guess I should try it again and just not cast it on turn 2 like I was doing when I first tried it. The flashback package in this deck seems pretty powerful, I like it a lot so far, so it's worth putting more effort into improving it.
This deck scares the **** out of me... Honestly, I would rather play into your Kami or Clique. It's a tight, well built deck. I think that this is one of the most underrated, strongest decks in the meta at the moment.
With the new reveal, I wish thinking that Mystic Confluence might be a good fit in the deck? Feels like another Cryptic Command to me.
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French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
Updated the decklist. Still at least 5 slots I'm not thrilled about. Quiet Speculation and Deep Analysis can be clunky. Hour of Need is cute, but probably too pricey at 5 mana to remove just two creatures (presumably I'd bounce them with Llawan the next turn). Unfortunately a lot of these types of cards make green tokens (Curse of the Swine, Pongify, Rapid Hybridization). I've had a lot of success when I happen to have Gilded Drake, stealing stuff, bouncing it with Llawan, etc.
Mystic Confluence will definitely go in, I'm very excited about that card. Flexibility at instant speed is great, and I've been looking for some higher casting cost cards as I sometimes run out of steam in games if I hit a land rut and don't have a planeswalker in play for some ongoing pressure. I need some good finishers. Capsize probably locks up more games than any other card besides Tamiyo.
Venser, Shaper Savant wasn't quite cutting it. I took out Curfew and Umezawa's Jitte, which made creatures less important, so then I took out Venser. Curfew is really good in this deck though, as security for Llawan and reusability for Llawan and all other creatures.
I'm 9-5 against Tasigur, but I don't think the matchup is quite that good for me. Definitely an attrition war though. I've recently added Phyrexian Furnace and Cursed Totem to help with that and monoblack Sidisi (actually, Cursed Totem is good against nearly everything out there these days). Typically I just try to be annoying against Tasigur, making them continually exhaust their graveyard to replay him after bounces and stuff. I don't try to use Llawan to get him off the board for good, but rather just for the bounce. Planeswalkers and Capsize usually win this matchup. I can usually play draw-go better than almost any deck except Vendilion, so I just try to focus on that and build up my lands so I can use all of my cards in the inevitable big counter war some turn.
Not completely related, but somewhat to the decklist...
Does it making sense running Llawan as a singleton for your 99 in a blue creature creature deck? Or does it need it's combo pieces to be efficient?
Also I completely agree on the shift to gravehate cards that cycle. I think that so many of the top tier decks are too reliant on the grave and picking away at it is key, especially for mono color decks.
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French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
You mean in some kind of merfolk or other blue beatdown deck? I think it's probably a metagame call. Just by herself, Llawan is very good against Animar, Narset, and Maelstrom, and solid against Geist and Jenara (even if they have the Swords to Plowshares, which is a worst-case scenario for you, they're only breaking even on mana and being set back one attack phase). There can be some benefits in the Jace, Vendilion, GAAIV, and Wydwen matchups, but it's no better than an average card in those I think.
Not completely related, but somewhat to the decklist...
Does it making sense running Llawan as a singleton for your 99 in a blue creature creature deck? Or does it need it's combo pieces to be efficient?
Also I completely agree on the shift to gravehate cards that cycle. I think that so many of the top tier decks are too reliant on the grave and picking away at it is key, especially for mono color decks.
Llawan is probably ok to run as a way to deny opposing U generals. Although I'd think simply running another counterspell is just better most of the time. Maybe if a Fish type deck became prevalent? Or if Llawan said "green" (damn I wish).
Just updated the list and I think it's 99 now. Of course I mostly post these things to give people ideas and see what they do with it, so I might purposely start just posting my top 90 cards or so, and see how people fill in the rest.
Llawan has a few advantages over a counterspell, namely that you can re-cast her if countered or killed, and she'll prevent your opponent's commander from being re-cast for 2 more after you counter it the first time. Think of it more of a mini-Iona, Shield of Emeria!
Wouldn't Glamerdye or Whim of Volrath be better than Sleight of Mind? Is it worth having the one shot effect for less mana when all your other options are more expensive anyway? Repetition seems better.
Wouldn't Glamerdye or Whim of Volrath be better than Sleight of Mind? Is it worth having the one shot effect for less mana when all your other options are more expensive anyway? Repetition seems better.
Glammerdye probably, but Whim is until end of turn, which means it would need to be re-cast every upkeep.
Wouldn't Glamerdye or Whim of Volrath be better than Sleight of Mind? Is it worth having the one shot effect for less mana when all your other options are more expensive anyway? Repetition seems better.
Glammerdye probably, but Whim is until end of turn, which means it would need to be re-cast every upkeep.
Ugh duh. That's what I get for skimming cards. But yea, Glamerdye seems pretty good.
I need it to be able to impact a spell while on the stack, so that the "bounce" effect of Llawan will trigger and go on the stack with that color word. (if I wait until Llawan is a permanent to try to alter the color word, the bounce triggered ability is already on the stack and changing the text on Llawan won't change the triggered ability on the stack). So I believe this just leaves me with these cards that can change the color word of a *spell* or permanent:
Spectral Shift is almost a strictly inferior Glamerdye in this deck, and Crystal Spray's cantrip over Sleight of Mind just isn't worth the extra 2.
I had the first three in the deck as of a few weeks ago. Alter Reality was great because I can fetch it with Quiet Speculation or Intuition. Can also pitch it to Careful Consideration for card advantage, which is a, um, consideration.
Sleight of Mind at U is very helpful against monogreen and monored and Anafenza.
So the worst of the three was Glamerdye, since I rarely needed to cast these more than once, and I tend to put a large emphasis on building my land base. I removed it a few weeks ago and haven't missed it too much.
Some results don't seem typical - I don't think Daretti or Wanderer are even close to 50-50 matchups, this deck should beat them handily, but small sample size and all. On the other side, Anafenza isn't a bye and I'm not sure 67% win rate against Narset is sustainable in the long term (maybe 55-60%?). Too many planeswalkers and such that I have a hard time dealing with if I don't happen to have a counter on hand when they're cast.
It's just crazy powerful though, mixing Iona, Shield of Emeria with Wash Out, for a total of 5 or 6 mana.
There's just so many decks that use creatures for *everything*, including removal, that I actually took out Lightning Greaves as well.
One thing I really miss is the ability to get something back from my graveyard. Snapcaster Mage and Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy can get me back an instant or sorcery, but if a creature or planeswalker hits the graveyard, it's only remaining use is fodder for delve cards. So I might try something like Codex Shredder. I don't think I'd mind at all paying 5 for an instant-speed Regrowth.
Can get Flash of Insight / Think Twice / Alter Reality, and Deep Analysis if you add it in.
I actually like Codex Shredder so far. I don't do much on turn 1 (and if I do have a Force Spike, I'm using it pretty quickly), so it's not really using up mana I would have otherwise spent. It helps out with my Delve spells and my Flashback spells, and a Regrowth for 5 mana is not too bad when I can do it at end of opponent's turn at instant speed.
Fluxuate, somehow I missed your post. I tried Quiet Speculation about a month ago. I added Deep Analysis for it, but I sure do hate when I draw that card and it's a 4-mana sorcery. The problem is I really need my turn 2 and 3 to counter or bounce stuff. I guess I should try it again and just not cast it on turn 2 like I was doing when I first tried it. The flashback package in this deck seems pretty powerful, I like it a lot so far, so it's worth putting more effort into improving it.
With the new reveal, I wish thinking that Mystic Confluence might be a good fit in the deck? Feels like another Cryptic Command to me.
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
Mystic Confluence will definitely go in, I'm very excited about that card. Flexibility at instant speed is great, and I've been looking for some higher casting cost cards as I sometimes run out of steam in games if I hit a land rut and don't have a planeswalker in play for some ongoing pressure. I need some good finishers. Capsize probably locks up more games than any other card besides Tamiyo.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Polymorph wouldn't be as good in this list as it would be in Kami. Gilded Drake and Vendilion Clique are very useful in this deck, Snapcaster and Jace, Vyrn's Prodicy are their useful effective selves, and Painter's Servant wins a lot of games (is 80% of the reason I play Muddle the Mixture).
I'm 9-5 against Tasigur, but I don't think the matchup is quite that good for me. Definitely an attrition war though. I've recently added Phyrexian Furnace and Cursed Totem to help with that and monoblack Sidisi (actually, Cursed Totem is good against nearly everything out there these days). Typically I just try to be annoying against Tasigur, making them continually exhaust their graveyard to replay him after bounces and stuff. I don't try to use Llawan to get him off the board for good, but rather just for the bounce. Planeswalkers and Capsize usually win this matchup. I can usually play draw-go better than almost any deck except Vendilion, so I just try to focus on that and build up my lands so I can use all of my cards in the inevitable big counter war some turn.
Does it making sense running Llawan as a singleton for your 99 in a blue creature creature deck? Or does it need it's combo pieces to be efficient?
Also I completely agree on the shift to gravehate cards that cycle. I think that so many of the top tier decks are too reliant on the grave and picking away at it is key, especially for mono color decks.
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
Llawan is probably ok to run as a way to deny opposing U generals. Although I'd think simply running another counterspell is just better most of the time. Maybe if a Fish type deck became prevalent? Or if Llawan said "green" (damn I wish).
EDH DECKS
[to be updated
OTHER DECKS
Llawan has a few advantages over a counterspell, namely that you can re-cast her if countered or killed, and she'll prevent your opponent's commander from being re-cast for 2 more after you counter it the first time. Think of it more of a mini-Iona, Shield of Emeria!
Glammerdye probably, but Whim is until end of turn, which means it would need to be re-cast every upkeep.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Ugh duh. That's what I get for skimming cards. But yea, Glamerdye seems pretty good.
- Sleight of Mind
- Alter Reality
- Glamerdye
- Spectral Shift
- Crystal Spray
Spectral Shift is almost a strictly inferior Glamerdye in this deck, and Crystal Spray's cantrip over Sleight of Mind just isn't worth the extra 2.I had the first three in the deck as of a few weeks ago. Alter Reality was great because I can fetch it with Quiet Speculation or Intuition. Can also pitch it to Careful Consideration for card advantage, which is a, um, consideration.
Sleight of Mind at U is very helpful against monogreen and monored and Anafenza.
So the worst of the three was Glamerdye, since I rarely needed to cast these more than once, and I tend to put a large emphasis on building my land base. I removed it a few weeks ago and haven't missed it too much.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek