My buddy plays a competitive Rafiq of the many deck and its so hard to deal with. The large amazing creatures of GW with blue to back them up and give unblockable. Its very frusterating yet good for testing.
But i agree i would rather play it over draw go cause the games are so loooooooooong
My buddy plays a competitive Rafiq of the many deck and its so hard to deal with. The large amazing creatures of GW with blue to back them up and give unblockable. Its very frusterating yet good for testing.
But i agree i would rather play it over draw go cause the games are so loooooooooong
I have a long standing hatred over Bant specifically because the deck is so auto pilot and many unfair cards or strategies revolve around XGU. I guess I don't really have any room to b*tch though because I play cards like Sinkhole, Braids, and Contamination lock? >_>
Man I'm really impressed with how well the locks did last night.
Awesome dude. Its always nice to see a deck do what you hoped it would do. I find mine tend to seem great on paper but then fail in practise
It takes time to get there - I used to build decks the same way, start with an awesome concept that fails in the heat of battle. Nowadays, I just play ruthlessly savage things like Contamination and force others to play as hard as I do, or fall to my douchebaggery.
You'll get there. Marchesa has a lot of potential.
I took D&T. I have a suspicion the D&T list is better universally, though I do see some merit in the Infect list. Guess I need to bring Infect next week though.
Because sometimes I want to hit things before they resolve - things like Exploration that, if it resolves, then the spot removal is less effective. Things like Aura of Silence and Aura Shards too. Really, as long as people play enchantment based removal like Song of the Dryads (and they should - it's a fantastic card!) then I'll keep playing Illumination). It's also strong versus cards like Duplicant and Oblivion Stone.
The OP list is accurate, though I've made a couple of changes (I removed Mangara because I don't have enough sac outlets IMO to make it good.)
Sure but whare are the odds tha you will have ilumination in the right time? You can draw it turn after the enchantment resolves and then its dead card for the rest of the game
It hits artifacts too. Really, it's no different than Annul - and I quite like that in Nin and similar decks. It's no Steel Sabotage (what is? lol) but it does nicely.
I understand it but in case of Nin, annul is not your only counterpell so you can easily counter that enchantment with something else. In case of this deck, you rely on having ilumination at the time the enchantment / artefact is cast and I dont see it how it can be worth over disenchant. I understand that you want to counter some specific enchantments but there is lot more that you dont need to counter but realy need to destroy - like jitte or swords.
So while by playing ilumination, you get better value vs cards like exploration or aura shards you lose a lot vs everything else compared to disenchant, because you need to have ilumination at the one exact moment and if you draw it turn later its worthless, unlike disenchant that let them have some value from exploration but you have much bigger time window for it to work (meaning that if you draw it two turns later, you can still get rid of that enchantment / artefact unlike ilumination) and also, it can be tutored by demonic tutor if its realy needed (I cant imagine anyone tutoring ilumination just in case)
Ilumination is also two colored mana that sometimes might be problem and least, it gives your oponent life that sometimes migh be problem too when all your creatures are 2/x.
BTW have you tried an token version with cards like monastery mentor, young pyromancer, elspeths, sorin...?
PS: could meekstone be viable addition since you dont play any creatures with power 3+ except your commander?
You make fair points (though I play two other counterspells as well to be fair), and while I won't play Disenchant specifically (never been too keen on justNaturalize effects), I could replace it with Wear/Tear - a card that always out performs it's expectations.
I don't feel I have enough Prowess-esque effects to make strong enough use of Pyro/Mentor. But I'd like to justify Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Hero of Bladehold. I don't see any synergy with them in the deck though, which reduces them to "just really good creatures".
Meekstone is really good, and I could definitely break it...but Alesha is a fairly non-negotiable part of the deck. Without him you lose your CA engine, solid 3 power first strike body, and access to all your soft locks (and MoC combo...though as I've shown on multiple accounts, MoC is still quite the threat when hard cast). I think that is giving up overall too much to justify the card. Though that said, it DOES help with the Sigarda match up.
Btw, I appreciate all the help and feedback as of late! I feel we can make this a real part of the meta, much like my experiments and hard work with Bellstriker have also uncovered a new under-explored part of the meta.
liliana, heretical healer will be nice in this deck. She got lifelink 2/3, put a 2/2 zombie when another nontoken dies and then transform into a planeswalker O_o. PLaneswalker abilite are awesome that -8 is not really comming fast, but the discard have a good chance to help u out cause aleshna will bring back your creature, but not your opponent :P.
liliana, heretical healer will be nice in this deck. She got lifelink 2/3, put a 2/2 zombie when another nontoken dies and then transform into a planeswalker O_o. PLaneswalker abilite are awesome that -8 is not really comming fast, but the discard have a good chance to help u out cause aleshna will bring back your creature, but not your opponent :P.
Eh. She's alright. Come down, make a guy, offer redundancy with Alesha only not as good because it doesn't fuel Braids or Contamination. LotV's +1 is so good because the -2 is also amazing. This one's -X isn't as good because it doesn't have that 1-2 punch of disruption (and I don't play 'Walkers because of ultimates). Yes we like discarding cards (sometimes, if we have a threat in hand to cheat out), but it isn't fueling our gameplan as much, despite being the "shiny new card".
It's worth testing, I suppose. But it isn't exciting me. I feel like I should be playing Pia and Kiran Nalaar & Siege-Gang Commander first. And likely Reveillark as well, despite not having any synergy with the deck beyond a single trigger.
Ya, im on the fence for both the Nalaar's and Lily. I feel like you need reliable sac outlets to run lily and I feel like you would want to be running an artifact deck like Daretti, Scrap Savant to really get your 4 mana's worth out of the Nalaar's. You would be better served playing Olivia Voldaren if you want to ping stuff. I guess the Nalaar's have 2 power so thats one thing in their favor I suppose.
Ya, im on the fence for both the Nalaar's and Lily. I feel like you need reliable sac outlets to run lily and I feel like you would want to be running an artifact deck like Daretti, Scrap Savant to really get your 4 mana's worth out of the Nalaar's. You would be better served playing Olivia Voldaren if you want to ping stuff. I guess the Nalaar's have 2 power so thats one thing in their favor I suppose.
Yeah, Nalaar's appealing point is being recurrable while coming with three bodies - same with Siege-Gang.
I dont think the nalaars are much better then Marsh Flitter for bodies, at least it has evasion. If you havent considered Marsh Flitter then the Nalaars are probably not worth considering either.
I've never been a fan of token generators personally. Id rather something that really affects card advantage or my opponents board position.
Priest of the Blood Rite. That's like another Blade Splicer here (an interaction I've quite enjoyed). Seven power for five mana is legit...and since Alesha can do this multiple times...I think we have a winner here, folks.
Hey, if you like it for Alesha then maybe ill try it in Marchesa as well. I've been on the fence with him. He's at least worth testing in both decks.
He sure is. The only knock I see is it's much easier to spend 2W on Splicer than 3BB on this guy, which leaves him largely as something to pitch to a Looting effect. But that said, I'm not averse from hard casting him - after all I've had no qualms in hardcasting Master of Cruelties, in Kaalia or Alesha. =D
2 black isnt so bad. By the time you have 5 lands your likely able to make 2 of each. Just be careful not to run to many colourless lands. Its 3 I find difficult.
2 black isnt so bad. By the time you have 5 lands your likely able to make 2 of each. Just be careful not to run to many colourless lands. Its 3 I find difficult.
I'm not so worried about the colours (I have Urborg after all). But it's being a five drop. That takes most if not all of a whole turn to resolve.
Fair enough, maybe cut Batterskull for it? I would only suggest 3-4 five drops personally. Batterskull, while a badass doesn't synergise as well with Alesha as the Priest
Fair enough, maybe cut Batterskull for it? I would only suggest 3-4 five drops personally. Batterskull, while a badass doesn't synergise as well with Alesha as the Priest
I generally drop 'Skull via SFM. That, and I think 'Skull has more resiliency to it.
But i agree i would rather play it over draw go cause the games are so loooooooooong
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I have a long standing hatred over Bant specifically because the deck is so auto pilot and many unfair cards or strategies revolve around XGU. I guess I don't really have any room to b*tch though because I play cards like Sinkhole, Braids, and Contamination lock? >_>
Man I'm really impressed with how well the locks did last night.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
It takes time to get there - I used to build decks the same way, start with an awesome concept that fails in the heat of battle. Nowadays, I just play ruthlessly savage things like Contamination and force others to play as hard as I do, or fall to my douchebaggery.
You'll get there. Marchesa has a lot of potential.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I took D&T. I have a suspicion the D&T list is better universally, though I do see some merit in the Infect list. Guess I need to bring Infect next week though.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Because sometimes I want to hit things before they resolve - things like Exploration that, if it resolves, then the spot removal is less effective. Things like Aura of Silence and Aura Shards too. Really, as long as people play enchantment based removal like Song of the Dryads (and they should - it's a fantastic card!) then I'll keep playing Illumination). It's also strong versus cards like Duplicant and Oblivion Stone.
The OP list is accurate, though I've made a couple of changes (I removed Mangara because I don't have enough sac outlets IMO to make it good.)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It hits artifacts too. Really, it's no different than Annul - and I quite like that in Nin and similar decks. It's no Steel Sabotage (what is? lol) but it does nicely.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
You make fair points (though I play two other counterspells as well to be fair), and while I won't play Disenchant specifically (never been too keen on just Naturalize effects), I could replace it with Wear/Tear - a card that always out performs it's expectations.
I don't feel I have enough Prowess-esque effects to make strong enough use of Pyro/Mentor. But I'd like to justify Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Hero of Bladehold. I don't see any synergy with them in the deck though, which reduces them to "just really good creatures".
Meekstone is really good, and I could definitely break it...but Alesha is a fairly non-negotiable part of the deck. Without him you lose your CA engine, solid 3 power first strike body, and access to all your soft locks (and MoC combo...though as I've shown on multiple accounts, MoC is still quite the threat when hard cast). I think that is giving up overall too much to justify the card. Though that said, it DOES help with the Sigarda match up.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
EDIT: Changelog after last week.
1 Illumination
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Cabal Pit
1 Tithe
1 Wear / Tear
1 Karn Liberated
1 Karmic Guide
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Lingering Souls
I'm trying something with Karn here because he's soooooo good. But I'm unsure I can reach seven mana reasonably.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Eh. She's alright. Come down, make a guy, offer redundancy with Alesha only not as good because it doesn't fuel Braids or Contamination. LotV's +1 is so good because the -2 is also amazing. This one's -X isn't as good because it doesn't have that 1-2 punch of disruption (and I don't play 'Walkers because of ultimates). Yes we like discarding cards (sometimes, if we have a threat in hand to cheat out), but it isn't fueling our gameplan as much, despite being the "shiny new card".
It's worth testing, I suppose. But it isn't exciting me. I feel like I should be playing Pia and Kiran Nalaar & Siege-Gang Commander first. And likely Reveillark as well, despite not having any synergy with the deck beyond a single trigger.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Yeah, Nalaar's appealing point is being recurrable while coming with three bodies - same with Siege-Gang.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I've never been a fan of token generators personally. Id rather something that really affects card advantage or my opponents board position.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
He sure is. The only knock I see is it's much easier to spend 2W on Splicer than 3BB on this guy, which leaves him largely as something to pitch to a Looting effect. But that said, I'm not averse from hard casting him - after all I've had no qualms in hardcasting Master of Cruelties, in Kaalia or Alesha. =D
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I'm not so worried about the colours (I have Urborg after all). But it's being a five drop. That takes most if not all of a whole turn to resolve.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I generally drop 'Skull via SFM. That, and I think 'Skull has more resiliency to it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I never added Norn into the deck. I added Sun's Champion instead, whom I am absolutely in love with.
Though I added Karn recently as an experiment...but i reckon that's a cut for this 5/5 spawner.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also I think Reveillark would be a all-star in a deck with such a low power curve. Not to mention with a sac-outlet and karmic guide it gets silly.