I just edited the original post to post my most current list. I'm currently not tinkering with the deck, and will probably only do it after the November announcements. So this list is not updated with Kaladesh and not thought to play in a 20 life environment.
Since Scrap Mastery and Daretti were spoiled I knew I had to build this. I had a Karn, Silver Golem deck once, and already had most of the cards to make this happen. I built this in 1-2 weeks time to play a local tournament. It was last friday and... I won! Very good feeling to play a new commander and win. Ok, it was a small 8-player tournament, but I probably played 3 of the best 4 decks in my meta. Feels even better that this was probably the first reported win Daretti had on a paper tournament.
My matches were Sygg, River Cuthroath (1-1), GAAIV (2-0) and Captain Sisay (2-0). I lost only one game, to Sygg, because he landed an early Pithing Needle on Daretti and followed it by a Jace. That's a nightmare scenario for me. I should probably add more artifact hate and include a few burn spells to deal with planeswalkers. Or maybe substitute Sudden Demise with a Earthquake or Rolling Earthquake.
This was a very atypical match, since in the 3 games we played he had an early Pithing Needle. I REALLY need to up my artifact hate against this. Needle and Null Rod are total nightmares. I need at least a Vandalblast.
So, G1 and G2 were very, trivial. First game he locked me with early Needle and Jace. Second game I managed to take Needle out and control his mana until I Sundering Titan'ed him.
The 3rd game, though, was very fun and made me understand a lot of problems with the deck. I had the perfect start. City of Traitors into Defense Grid. Then into a mana rock, Daretti and Tangle Wire in the following turns, where he could do nothing. When he got the first chance, though, he played Pithing Needle once again, locking Daretti. I took loads of time without finding removal for the Needle. I was controlling the game (Static Orb had joined in the fun) but never had a relevant threat/clock. I kept controlling his beats and eventually dropped a Silent Arbiter so I could protect my Daretti. He then got to a ton of mana and dropped Jace. We went on a drawing race and eventually I found and reanimated a Myr Incubator. The very turn where I got the mana to win via Incubator, he found and played an Engineered Plague. Damn you, Jace!
We were on 5 turns already, so I went for the ultimate plan: the Jokulhaups for the 1-1 Draw!
0-1-0
(what I learned from this is that I need more threats/lock pieces, I need more artifact removal and that Static Orb is very dangerous if no played carefully: it can hurt me a lot more than him if we are on a "draw-go" game state)
These matches were absolutelly brutal. I can't even remeber much of what happened, since in both games he barelly got to play relevant spells. I can tell Coercive Portal is incredible and can help you outdraw him. I also managed to destroy his table with GAA, Restoration Angel, Venser, Shaper Savant and Oblivion Ring with it (because I had a few things on my side and he knew I could outdraw him if Portal didn't go). He didn't know I'd follow if with Wildfire.
Game 2 was fun, though. He took my first 2 lock pieces with Detention Sphere and Oblivion Ring, but I managed to survive and land a Daretti - he had to tap out to take Defense Grid. Once Daretti was in play everything went better. The problem, though, is that once again I didn't find relevant threats/locks. He managed to land Grand Arbiter and keep Daretti on 3 to 5 counters. Eventually I managed to land a Smokestack followed by a Contagion Engine - taking out his Grand Arbiter and ramping Smokestack to 4 in 1 turn. I had a Phyrexia's Core on the table, so it was only a matter of time before I could ultimate Daretti (already on 9 counters) and make Smokestack invincible. He scooped.
Along with Prossh, this is probably the deck to beat in my meta, and you always have to plan for this matchup (he plays quite well). My fears here are early Needles, Gaddock Teeg with no answer or Dark Depths.
G1 was probably the most interesting of the day, since I managed to survive a Marit Lage token. He started with Lightning Greaves and an elf. My side saw a 1st turn Needle on Sisay followed by a mana rock. he dropped lands, having little gas, and I dropped Daretti. Eventually, I got Kuldotha Forgemaster online. He played Mangara of Corondor, with haste because of the Greaves and immediatelly removed my Needle. In response, I sac'ed it for Kuldotha, getting Contagion Engine and killing his 3 elves with it (I should've done this in response to him equipping Mangara...). Next turn Forgemaster is joined by a hardcasted Wurmcoil. He dropped a Dark Depths and activated the already in play Thespian Stage (which I totally didn't see), making a 20/20 haste Marit. I was at 20-something. He didn't hit, because he was afraid I could kill him next turn (which was probably true, since I could fetch for Battlesphere and hit him for 21 (Sphere, Kuldotha, Wurmcoil). But after he passed he realized his mistake: he had that green creature that had Pro-Blue and untaps a creature... I forgot the name.
EOT I fetch for Mindslaver. I slave his turn, dropping Helm of Possession alongside with it. On his turn I manage to leave him with 2 lands, no forest, and a Marit Lage without shroud, stealing the Marit Lage on my turn. (I forgot a few details... maybe I took out the Greaves via Scraping Mastery, but I don't remember).
G2 was similar, he had a better start than G1, this time with Sylvan Library, mana dorks and Gaddock. But I had the perfect outs: Pithing Needle and Slagstorm. After I took Gaddock out, Daretti took over pretty quickly.
2-1-0
So that was it! I won (got a Chrome Mox that I'll try to trade into an Ensnaring Bridge!) and got very proud of this early acomplishment with Daretti. I feel he's very good, but can have a lot of trouble with Tier 1 decks like Reanimator or Marath. Those are not present in my meta, though (I am the only one that plays Reanimator). Against Marath I feel Bridge, Forcefield and Witchbane Orb could be good. Against Reanimator, maybe 1 or 2 more graveyard hates, along with Tawnos's Coffin and Ensnaring Bridge should help a lot.
I feel the deck is forced to play very slowly against blue. So maybe I was wrong on the Pyro/REB thing. It would make much more confortable if I had Painter's Servant and Imperial Recruiter, but maybe I could add 1 Pyroblast, 1 REB and even 1 Overmaster or 1 Boseiju to try and overcome counter walls. Bringing Lodestone back may help too.
CARD CHOICES
The main thing that defined my card choices were: most of the cards should affect the board as soon as they come in; and I should prioritize cards that do what they do without costing me mana. The deck needs to use its mana every turn, so having to spend mana to do effects can slow you down a lot. This is relevant because you need to be able to PLAY threats, not only reanimate them. The deck should work without Daretti, so you need to be able to pay for most of your cards, even if it's just to draw counters and make your way to resolving Daretti.
So far, I'm happy with all my non-basic lands, except Arcane Lighthouse and the manlands. I mean, Factory is good to hold early beats, but that was almost never relevant, and Maze of Ith does a much better job than Factory at this... the only problem with Maze is that there are a few times where I hold out on playing Blood Moon because of it. That should change with Ensnaring Bridge coming in, though.
So, what I could do is take this 3 lands out and bring in things like Boseiju, Dwarven Ruins and Sandstone Needle. Or maybe even another basic Mountain. It depends a lot on meta. Sandstone Needle should come in, though.
Vesuva is another open slot. I liked it so far. It can copy oposing Mazes and Caverns. Can also copy your artifact lands.
I feel there are only a few slots worth comenting here. Junk Diver substituted Myr Retriver because I never want to play Myr on turn 2 (so the extra mana is irrelevant) and I needed a flyer to chump block early in the game.
Silent Arbiter is bad, and should've been an Ensnaring Bridge. You can win through bridge with Inkmoth and Contagion Engine, with Myr Incubator or with Memory jar (drawing 7, punching, then discarding).
I didn't see Squee the whole tournament, but he would've been very good had he showed up. There were a few times I was holding only relevant spells (Wildfire, Jokulhaups, Scrap Mastery) and couldn't discard anything, making Daretti pretty bad).
Solemn Simulacrum is good, but I feel it should have been a Koth of the Hammer. Koth generates a lot of mana and is also an alternative win condition on its own. Simulacrum is good though, and maybe can find it's place alongside Koth.
Myr Battlesphere: I debated a long time if I should add this or Pentavus (and later, Triskelavus). I still don't know, but Battlesphere came in because it's the decks fastest clock, and because it generates tokens for free - which, as I said before, is VERY relevant.
MANA ROCKS
1 Mox Opal
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mox Diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basalt Monolith
All the 2 mana rocks felt great the whole day. Don't take them out. Powerstone is broken too, as is Basalt Monolith (I wouldn't advise trading it for Thran Dynamo). Mycosynth Wellspring is incredibly good here. It really exceded my expectations. The only card I was unimpressed was Mox Diamond. It never felt that good. Maybe it will come out for a Plague Myr, a Elsewhere Flask (although I still don't see why this is good, except after the ultimate) or Ruby Medallion - I realized that making it easier to cast 2 red spells in the same turn will likely make me more able to resolve a Daretti or a Scrap Mastery.
Unstable Obelisk may be "the worst of the good ones". It costing 3 almost always costs me a turn. his late game ability is very relevant, though, so I wouldn't trade it for now.
OTHER ARTIFACTS
OK, this is where it gets long and more conceptual. I have a few of slots I may change here. I'll start by saying what was very good and I wouldn't take out:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Defense Grid
1 Crystal Ball
1 Mana Web
1 Static Orb
1 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Smokestack
1 Mishra's Helix
1 Helm of Possession
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Coercive Portal
1 Memory Jar
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Spine of Ish Sah
Those are the cards I feel confortable with, my main Forgemaster targets and the cards I'd want to see every game. Choices that may seem odd here are Contagion Engine, Crystal Ball, Helm of Possession and Mana Web. Contagion Engine is excellent because it's a fetchable mass removal, along with a ramp for poison, Everflowing Chalice, Smokestack, Tangle Wire... and Daretti, of course.
Crystal Ball is substituting Lodestone Golem or Staff of Nin here. It felt massively good all day. Having the power to choose your draws here is very powerful. Could be coupled with Codex Shredder in the future for cuteness, but maybe this is too clunky. I'd advise testing the Ball though, it's incredible.
Mana Web feels very good against blue, not that good against aggro. Since it doesn't affect you, thought, I feel it has it's place even against aggro. But I'll mulligan this away if playing against more "sorcery speed based" decks. It plays very well with Mishra's Helix.
Helm of Possession may be the most underplayed artifact I know. It's incredible and can turn tides very quickly here. It may be better if I can find space for a Trading Post or a Myr Turbine here, though. There was 1 time where I had it but didn't have anything to sacrifice. (tip: Squee is great here too)
Now, my doubts reside in:
1 Tormod's Crypt
I know I need to pack graveyard hate, but 1-of seems bad. Either I'll add another one (like Phyrexian Furnace), or I'll take this out for a cantrip like Elsewhere Flask or Tsabo's Web and attack the reanimator matchup in another way. This latter feels better, since it's VERY unlikely I'll have Tormod's available on the right time and knowing that 1 Tormod's do not stop reanimator from doing what it does.
1 Clock of Omens
This card is great, but I never wanted to have it in play, except when I had Static Orb out. Maybe even a Icy Manipulator is better? I don't know... this also gives vigilance to your creatures, untaps Disk the turn it comes into play and adds a lot of mana with Powerstone or Monolith. I don't know... maybe this should be a Myr Turbine or a Witchbane Orb? Or a Tawnos's Coffin?
1 Ugin's Nexus
Another card I love but never wanted to play it during the whole tournament. This attacks specifically Maelstrom and Narset. Outside those matches, It feels clunky and I almost never want to have an extra turn. I don't know what to put in though...
1 Myr Incubator
I love this as a combo win condition, but it costs 6 mana to activate. On my Sygg match, this was a real issue. Had is costed less, I would've won that game. 6 is a lot and as I said before, this deck needs it's mana. It could become a Myr Turbine or a Triskelavus. Or even make room for the Bosh/Grafted Exoskeleton kill. The fact that it's a 1 turn clock is very tempting though. I'm leaving it in, but studying options.
1 Darksteel Forge
This is so amazing... but everytime I drew it (or worse, had it in my opening hand) if felt the worst thing ever. It only really shines if fetched by Forgemaster, in response to some removal. IT's a great answer to mass artifact removal or Aura Shards, for example, so it's also staying in for now. But do take note that it is clunky as hell.
RED REMOVAL
1 Chaos Warp
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dead/Gone
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Slagstorm
1 Sudden Demise
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Jokulhalps
1 Wildfire
1 Ruination
OTHER RED
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Gamble
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Scrap Mastery
I feel this should be untouched. All excellent, game defining cards. I wish I had more Faithless Lootings, but I still stand firm that Bazaar of Baghdad is not good here. Bazaar is card disadvantage, you do NOT want to do it every turn and it hinders your mana development. Also, I don't want another card that makes me not want to play Blood Moon.
And finally, THINGS I WANT TO FIND ROOM FOR:
Steel Hellkite
Man... this isn't in for the sole factor that I don't want it to be stolen. Treachery, Bribery or anything like that on this guy is terrible. It could solve a lot of problems for us, but I hate to just lose to my own cards. The deck is more or less immune to this things as of now. Losing Battlesphere or Wurmcoil is bad, but you have ways to deal with them. Steel Hellkite is very hard and needs only to hit once to end the game for us.
Pentavus/Triskelavus/Thopter Assembly/Darksteel Gargoyle
These could fill the "flyer slot". I really need to address the flyer issue. It hasn't come up yet, but if I face something like Vendilion Clique, it's going to be a problem. Darksteel Gargoyle seem awesome, but the fact that is costs 7 makes it nearly unplayable. I mean, for 7 I want a bomb, not a 3/3 that should've been an early drop. If it costed 5, would be in.
Between Pentavus, Triskelavus and Thopter Assembly I'm pending to Pentavus. Assembly is slow and Triskelavus only makes 3 tokens, besides not killing himself to be reanimated again. It's hard to find a slot for Pentavus, though. I really prefer Myr Battlesphere over it, since is costs no mana to make tokens and beats a lot. Other pros of Battlesphere are the synergy with Incubator and Turbine (you can tutor for Battlesphere with Turbine eventually).
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
I was thinking Slobad could come in in Darksteel Forge's slot. It's faster and can deal with almost any issue Forge does. The only problem is that it's a creature, of course, and dies to my removal spells. But it could also be fetched by...
Goblin Matron + Goblin Replica/Tuktuk Scrapper
Goblin Matron could be a bad substitute for Imperial Recruiter. It can already get Squee or Goblin Welder, which is very relevant. If I add Slobad or one of these artifact removal goblins (probably Replica), it could be very good. I could even add a Cavern of Souls to chain goblins.
Mycosynth Lattice + Karn, Silver Golem
I tested Lattice extensively and got mixed feelings. on one side, it's brutal if coupled with Karn, Vandalblast or Disk + Darksteel Forge. It can also be very good with Kuldotha, Krark-Clan Ironworks, etc. So why isn't it in? First, it's only relevant when you have another piece of a combo already on the table. If you don't, it only makes you vulnerable to artifact hate. Second, it hurts the Blood Moon plan. I'm still thinking it could be good even then, since it's awesome if it comes in after a Scrap Mastery, and since Karn is good by itself. Maybe this could come in Myr Incubator slot.
Myr Turbine + Skullclamp
These cards doesn't need to come in together. Skullclamp is relevant on it's own, as is Myr Turbine. But I feel Clamp should only come in if I have a steady production of tokens, either with Turbine or Trading Post. Turbine if very good because it makes Battlesphere bigger and can even tutor it. Is isn't in mainly because of lack of slots, but I could see it substituting Ugin's Nexus or Myr Incubator, for example - since this costs no mana to activate and Incubator costs 6.
Jester's Mask
I'd love to have this colorless "Duress" in. It's something blue HAS to counter, or they won't be able to counter anything relevant for the rest of the game. The problem is that this isn't good on most non-blue matchups, so it's a very meta-oriented card.
Pyro/REB
I already said on the forum I would love to have both of these if I had Painter's Servant, Imperial Recruiter, Jaya Ballard and Citanul Flute in. That would make this awesome in every matchup. But after playing with the deck, I felt Pyro and REB could see play even without this. Most of the times I just needed to resolve 1 spell to put blue in a bad shape, so this could help. If Ruby Medallion comes in, this guys could be even better, since if would be easier to play 2 spells + Pyro on the same turn.
Lightning Bolt/Rolling Earthquake
I need more ways to deal with planeswalkers and early beats. These takes cares of flyers too Could be very relevant. I just don't know what to take out for now. Probably Dead/Gone, but I love that card so much I'm reluctant.
Destructive Force / Burning of Xinye / All is dust / Oblivion Stone / Keldon Firebombers
I'd love to have Destructive Force or Burning of X, it's a matter of slots. All is Dust could be good, but it kills Daretti, so I don't really like it. Oblivion Stone is nice but costs 5 to activate, 8 to play and activate, and I made my point about this earlier. Keldon Firebombers is awesome, but it doesn't hit creatures - he's good even then though. Had he been a goblin (to tutor with Matron) or had 2 power (to get with Recruiter) I'd play it. If I ever play Citanul Flute though, it's coming in.
Tsabo's Web
I love this tech. Didn't play it because I didn't own it. I'd really have to take Arcane Lighthouse out to make this happen, and probably Maze of Ith too. If I have a good plan for early beats, could even drop Factory, since I almost never attack with it.
Ruby Medallion / Elsewhere Flask
As I said, this could substitute Mox Diamond, which did nothing to me. Ruby Medallion is probably the best choice, since I don't see the appeal with Elsewhere Flask besides being good after the ultimate.
Koth of the Hammer
This should have been in, but I don't own one and couldn't find it in time. I'd play this in Solemn Simulacrum's slot. It ramps and kills planeswalkers with hasty Mountains.
Sandstone Needle/Dwarven Ruins
Could come in to substitute Arcane Lighthouse. I'm pending to Sandstone, because I can activate it twice.
Tawnos's Coffin
Great creature removal, can also do shenanigans with Sundering Titan, Myr Battlesphere, Duplicant and whatnot. Just need to 1- find a slot, 2- find a copy to buy.
That's it, guys. I really loved playing and developing the deck, got a few tips from this very forum and am looking forward to play more with this!
Looking into building a Daretti deck, as I love all flavours of mono-red in EDH. Is there a reason Lodestone Golem was removed? Seems like a pretty solid guy, good stats for his CMC, fits the overall gameplan and makes the control matchup slightly better (or at least they have to take a turn of to remove him).
How bad is the control matchup for the deck? Specifically Narset. It seems like it's pretty tenuous - maybe 50/50 at best. Any tips on how to shore up the matchup or how to play it out?
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Duel Commander enthusiast. Currently playing Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
Hi guys, sorry it took me so long to answer, but I was on vacations. I've been playing this deck non-stop. I can say the only matchup that feels hopeless until now is Reanimator. I can't seem to be able to deal with an early, or even late, Ashen Rider + Iona. Very annoying.
The rest, even control matchups, seem fine. I'm not afraid of Vendilion since there's a TON of ways of getting rid of it or simply applying pressure enough to overcome their counters. Resolving Daretti is important, but other things like Wildfire and Scrap Mastery are crucial. Mana denial is strong, even against mono-colored decks.
Looking into building a Daretti deck, as I love all flavours of mono-red in EDH. Is there a reason Lodestone Golem was removed? Seems like a pretty solid guy, good stats for his CMC, fits the overall gameplan and makes the control matchup slightly better (or at least they have to take a turn of to remove him).
How bad is the control matchup for the deck? Specifically Narset. It seems like it's pretty tenuous - maybe 50/50 at best. Any tips on how to shore up the matchup or how to play it out?
Control matchups are not that bad. Narset is really impressive, but if you manage to land something like a Trinisphere before she hits you can do a lot. Also, you always have good blockers for her. The other plan is mana denial, which works great against any 3-color-control deck. I've never had a problem. When I say that, I'm saying I don't think this is a bad matchup, but obviously you can lose if things get out of control. You have so many early threats to play that must be countered that I don't see how Narset or other control decks can deal with them except with awesome hands...
Although other players are saying otherwise here, Scrap Mastery is THE card that makes all this viable, since you only need 1 opening to win the game through it. It can really make you come back from a lost game.
And that is what's important to notice about Lodestone Golem and other sphere effects: they mostly hurt you more than him. The best way you can win against control is to resolve 2 spells per turn. Golem screws that up for you big time. Baiting with Daretti to resolve a Scrap Mastery or a Wildfire/Burning/Jokulhalps is what you want to do. Lodestone makes that cost 2 more. Also, this deck is slow. Making people pay 1 more for spells normally do not make a big impact on your prison plan because they can simply wait a few turns more - but that extra cost actually hinders your ability to be aggressive. You want bigger effects like Wildfire, Mishra's Helix, Smokestack or Tangle Wire instead of smaller ones like Lodestone Golem.
Against Narset, I'd say that it depends wether you're facing the combo version, which isn't too hard, or the control version which is a pain. Against any control draw-go, your main problem is that you play only sorcery-speed cards, though I think fsecco's deck is better than most Darettis in this matchup since his converted mana costs are lower.
That's key. You CANNOT depend on resolving Daretti. You need early threats to be able to apply pressure/prison elements early, followed by Daretti or a bigger prison effect. Many times I've baited with Daretti only to resolve Smokestack or Tangle Wire and take the game from there.
Oh I see, youre right however 7 turns with counterspells is not that slow. THe thing that you have 7 turns and your crucial spells can be countered - especialy if they counter darreti, then you are in very bad spot. The thing is that by the time you play darreti they already have clique in play and counter mana ready. Im not saying it cant be won but all threaths in this deck are either expensive - wurmcoil and others, mishras helix, mindlaver or useless - ruination, blood moon, magus.
I agree that clique is worse than wydwen because wydwen has creature removal which isnt great vs this deck.
Please note that Im not saying this deck is bad, Im also building darreti and I realy like it but clique seems to be very difficult just because it plays that many counterspells which are (seems) difficult to beat with this deck AND its mono colored deck where the mana denial is not that usefull
Actually combo is harder to beat than control. This deck packs a lot of early effects that, if not answered, will take control's ability to counter spells away. You cannot keep a hand with expensive bombs against control (maybe you keep a Wildfire if you know you can ramp to it quickly). Resolving Daretti is awesome, but you can't keep a hand that depends on that against control, EVER. Daretti needs to be resolved sooner or later, but you need to apply early pressure first. Scrap Mastery is awesome here. I know, Clique can take games away by simply countering everything. I tought about playing 1 REB, 1 Pyroblast, Boseiju and even Cavern of Souls in order to resolve spells. You normally only need to resolve 1 or 2 spells to take the game away (Wildfire or Scrap Mastery, most likely) or even something like Helm of Possession or Staff of Nin. Actually, Staff of Nin is awesome to resolve against Clique.
If you worry too much about Wydwen or Vendilion, I'd suggest cutting Myr Battlesphere for Triskelavus, for example. Also, playing more early creature kills like Pyroclasm or Whipflare or Jaya Ballard
I've been meaning to add Jaya Ballard for a few days... maybe I can find room for her.
I agree with everything you've said, KriggY. I was just comparing Clique and Wydwen to generals like Surrak (kills in 4 turns) or Ruhan (kills in 3 turns), who have a faster clock. That in turns means that they face less risks to run out of counterspells, and so are worse matchups (assuming they pack as many counterspells, obviously).
Bigger generals are easier to deal with, actually. They don't have Hexproof neither card advantage into them. An early Ensnaring Bridge, Forcefield or Maze can take care of that. Seriously, those guys do not make me afraid. Early flyers like Wydwen or Clique are much worse, as is Narset and her CA engine or Geist. Also, if your opponent is resolving 6 mana spells, either you're already losing or you're so far ahead you don't even care.
Indeed. BTW surak and ruhan can be hated by nonbasic LD
I however have no idea how to improve that clique matchup
defence grind is autoinclude IMO but can be countered/destroyed easily
boseiju doesnt cover artefacts so it works for SOME of our spells.
HOnestly I think this deck plays too many cute cards - I agree with everything in OP "im in doubt" + spine if ish sah (too expensive to get rid of early enchantment), scrap mastery - win more.
ANother cards Im not sure include:
bonfire - cant be tutored for like in UR so I would substitute it for earthquake or rolling earthquake
crystall ball - too slow? Maybe Im not sure, but I would rather play something else on turn 3.
myr incubator - probably too slow
mox diamond - I dont think you want to discard lands in this deck
generator sarvant - what for? Isnt 2 mana stone better than this?
Clique really needs to counter EVERYTHING you play, which is possible, actually. If he doesn't, that one spell that slips through can take the game. I'd say it's 60/40 for us, maybe 50/50. Actually what makes me more afraid in Clique is Tunnel Vision...
Now, I already cut all cards that were in the "in doubt" section, except Myr Incubator. I still like being able to combo quickly. The other stuff became Burning of X, Rolling Earthquake and the likes. One think I added that is awesome is Cursed Totem. It's really, really good and destroys elfball almost by itself. It's also very good against Marath.
Now, I disagree with some of your comments on a few cards. Spine of Ish Sah is a must have for me. It destroys lands, enchantments and is very recursible. I can't count how many times this got me out of unwinnable situations. It's also one of the few ways you have to take out Rest in Peace and cards like that. If you have a better idea (I tested Lux Cannon and kinda liked it), let me know.
Scrap Mastery is NOT a win more. It's THE card that makes control be wary of never tapping out if you have 5 mana. If can win games by itself, even after he countered all you played so far. Do NOT underestimate this card, it's very important. I can't stress this enough.
Bonfire of the Damned was never meant to be played with the Miracle ability. It's there to take out small armies and planeswalkers, without hurting you and your Welders, Magus, etc. It's awesome. I could see you cutting it for Rolling Earthquake, which is probably better, but Bonfire isn't that bad. Now, I've taken out armies of elves without needing to kill my creatures, and that can simply win games.
Crystal Ball IS slow. But if can be very important for this deck to keep applying pressure. Drawing 3 lands in a row can be very bad. This helps a lot. That said, I've cut it for Cursed Totem. It's still one of the cards I want to find room again in the deck though.
Myr Incubator, as I said, is really very slow. I tried a few things in this slot, even Razormane Masticore, but I still like it's ability to simply win the game - or even generating fodder for Daretti or Smokestack. Maybe it could give room for Ugin one day? I don't know, I like having a "combo" win in the deck. It helps against decks like Narset or Maelstrom: sometimes they're just about to slip out of your lock and you get them with 20 1/1 Myrs.
Generator Servant I kinda agree. A mana rock is probably better (would probably be Guardian Idol), but I like that this gives haste to creatures. It can be a late trick with Kuldotha Forgemaster or something like that. I'll probably take it out for a mana rock though...
* On a different topic, I know my version of Daretti is very good against elfball and midrange, average against control, and awful against combo and aggro-disruption. It would be interesting to know if Fsecco's version performs similarly, or if some matchups are better / worse and why.
I mostly agree with you (I already said what I think about Bonfire and Scrap Mastery). But any matchup without counters seem very good for my deck. Being able to jam Daretti turn 3 without worries makes the game quite easier to handle. Taking small armies out is not a problem too. The only thing you should worry about is against VERY fast aggro decks, like Skythrix or, I dunno, Brimaz. You need a little time to stabilize, but you have a lot of possible answers.
The decks that haunt me are decks that can REALLY counter everything you throw at them (Clique does this sometimes) and combo decks like Reanimator. Reanimator is really a terrible matchup and if you see a lot of that in your area you should pack at least 2 grave hate cards. Torpor Orb, Tawnos's Coffin and Forcefield are also good cards that I want to find room for.
I haven't tested a lot against Marath, but I assume the matchup favor Daretti.
Maelstrom can go either way, but I'd assume we take it, since for them to get to 8 mana is very hard. Shattering Spree and Wildfire are awesome here.
I forgot to say: thanks for the input guys. I dedicated a lot of time to this decklist and am glad to know that, at least in theory, it seems suited for various matchups.
Actually I'm not playing Silent Arbiter anymore, but Ensnaring Bridge in its place. And now that I actually got a Forcefield, I'm trying to find room for it too. Silent Arbiter is awesome against fast aggro, but against big guys he's terrible, and you need a slot to deal with big guys more than with little ones (they can be dealt easier with mass removal) or Wurmcoil Engine, etc. Also, Bridge can stop Narset, Geist and Kaalia completely, and Arbiter can't.
As I said in the OP, I cut Tormod's Crypt exactly because of that: since it's only 1 card, it can't be a reliable plan against reanimator. But I really tought the deck could handle reanimator more easily, because of Moon effects and mana denial. It can't. Mainly because of Ashen Rider. Anything else you are able deal with, but Ashen Rider can screw you up for good. I have no idea how to deal with him but a lucky Duplicant. I thought about Torpor Orb, which is good because it stops at least 1 of his exiles, thought about Grafdigger's Cage... Phyrexia's Core can help because you can sacrifice the targeted artifact in response so you don't lose it, but in general you're in bad shape if Rider hits the table. If followed by Iona, then forget it.
Generator Servant is good, but Copper Gnomes is another good way to hurt control early game. I'm still deciding if I really love Copper Gnomes since it's so situational an requires 4 mana to activate...
Junk Diver wasn't doing anything and is only good with Daretti in play. Since I'm against relying on such cards, it goes out. Tutoring Welder, Squee and artifact removal is better. Wish I had an Imperial Recruiter though.
Completing the Goblin Matron package, a tutorable artifact removal. Could be Tuktuk Scrapper but for now I think being able to recur Goblin Replica is better, although slower.
Mox Diamond wasn't that great, Ruby Medallion allows me to overcome control by playing 2 spells per turn mid-game. It also allows Daretti turn 3, as any mana rock.
As I said, Crypt wasn't actually solving the reanimator matchup, so I thought I'd put a more generic prison element. Web replaces itself and can be quite annoying.
Staff of Nin is incredible. Can't believe I didn't play it. Actually, I was predicting more "Time Walk based" Narsets in my meta, that's why the Nexus. I was wrong, so it's out.
Fantastic write-up, sir. Very well thought out and well tested, it seems. I've played mono red for years now (the last being Akroma, which I also played as a Stax type deck), and this seems like, by far, the best general red could ask for.
I built a list that mixes your list from mtgtop8.com and the one by Julien Bachelier. I'll wait until I test the deck more in depth before I offer too many suggestions, but a few things I wanted to point out real quick are:
Sandstone Needle / Crystal Vein / etc type lands: I've always found these lands to be pretty bad. Using these up to play something right into a counter just sets you back way too far. You want lands that stick around turn after turn.
Stranglehold: I'm currently testing this and I have high hopes for it. This stops land ramp (which hurts us really bad if it gets out of hand), Reanimator searching for targets, Survival searching for answers to our artifacts, fetches, etc. It also stops Captain Sisay from searching for Teeg. All of that seems awesome, and you can bring this down on turn 3 pretty consistently.
Also, new banned list update! Daretti just leveled up! Now that Crucible is legal again, Expedition Map seems like it should come in. Winter Orb is an auto include, as is Top. And Entomb got banned, so the Reanimator match should be at least a little better now, too. Curious to hear your thoughts and where the deck is, currently.
Yeah, the banned list is going to make this list change. Crucible and Orb are must-include. I'd say Top is too, but Top is such a dumb unbanning... EVERY deck will have 1, because why wouldn't you?
Expedition Map I don't know... but Crucible makes Sandstone Needle and Crystal Vein better.
Crucible is specially good because once it's in play, you can discard any land to Daretti without regret. This probably makes me wanting Boseiju in the deck also. Gamble for Boseiju with Crucible in play.
Now, about your questions: the lands that make 2 mana are CRUCIAL for aggro matches. They make you consistenly drop Daretti turn 2-3 and that's very important against aggro. I believe these cards are what make the aggro matches so good for Daretti. Also, they help you slip things through counters early game. Defense Grid Turn 1 with Crystal Vein/City of Traitors, for example. Or Daretti/Blood Moon turn 2, before blue mage has 2 mana up. That said, you obviously need to watch your land count before you sacrifice this things. Knowing how to mulligan is essential.
About Stranglehold: I love the effect, but I think it's too slow. Against reanimator a 4 mana spell seems really slow. But it seems good against Survival and Sisay. What would you cut for it?
The card I wanted to test the most is Ward of Bones. I don't really like it on paper, but never saw it in action.
The list has changed a bit, but I haven't updated it here because I wanted to play a tournament and update it with results. Now I'm gonna have to change things a lot hahaha. I have a tournament on saturday and WILL be playing Winter Orb, Top and Crucible. (man, these things are SO gonna be banned again next announcement)
Quickly tested yesterday and, for me, Sensei's Divining Top doesn't make the cut. Without shuffling effects it's pretty bad. I'd rather have Crystal Ball or Expedition Map. Even Bazaar of Baghdad would be better. And I don't like adding 4 fetches just for this. The damage is relevant and I don't want to thin the deck on lands: we need our land drops.
My small take on Daretti. Nothing really innovative.
Do you have any input on card choices?
How's Myriad Landscape working for you? It seems way too slow for me. As I said before in this thread, Daretti needs open mana every turn. I wouldn't like to pay 3 to ramp (although I do that with Worn Powerstone, but that's an artifact, which is relevant). Also, like Wayfarer's Bauble, I don't like cards that take 2 turns to ramp in this deck.
I don't like Precursor Golem mainly because Repeal is a widely played card. Giving your opponent an Ancestral Recall is not that good. Batterskull seems way superior in that slot.
You're playing 3 graveyard hate slots. How's that working? Does it improve the reanimator matchup? Also, why no Tormod's Crypt? It seems at least better than Phyrexian Furnace, and cost no mana.
Also, about your choices of mana rocks: why no Ruby Medallion or Gilded Lotus? I mean, you have a lot of rocks that add colorless mana and that can really hinder your mana development. Also: Star Compass seems bad with all the land destruction we have.
Another question: how's all the 7 mana sweepers doing for you? I feel paying 7 mana is kinda hard, specially against control where you want to drop 2 spells/turn. I'll probably change my mind about this once I add Boseiju and Expedition Map to the list, though. But anyway I don't like All is Dust because it kills Daretti. I'd put Nevinyrral's Disk in that slot.
EDIT: You're not playing Magus of the Moon??? You NEED that. Now!
And about your maybeboard: Commune with Lava seems terrible. you don't want to leave mana open to cast this end of your opponent's turn, and you don't want to cast it during your turn. We're playing 7 mana spells, man. No, no! Grafdigger's Cage is bad because you can't sacrifice it to Daretti to return a creature at the same time. If you could do that, then it would be awesome.
And, if you want to play a Masticore, you should play Razormane Masticore, because it doesn't waste your mana.
Magus of the Moon is a threat that needs to be answered and buys you a lot of turns. I can't say how many games I won because of him alone (just like Blood Moon and Ruination). If you ever add Imperial Recruiter he's a must.
I doubted Ruby Medallion too in the beginning, but the fact that once you want o play 2 spells a turn it generates 2 mana is awesome. Makes Daretti turn 3 viable (as any other rock) but against control you can play a bait spell and then resolve Daretti the same turn (or bait with Daretti to resolve Scrap Mastery).
I feel Icy Manipulator is too expensive too warrant a slot without any extra functionality.
I'd play Tormod's over Relic of Progenitus every time, actually. Removing my own graveyard is not that big of a deal, but that's not something you actually want to do. Let your opponent waste resources.
Myriad Landscape and Wayfarer's Bauble are too slow for my build, maybe they're good for yours. I have a lot of lands that enter tapped. So leading with a Dwarven Ruins feels much worse if I have a Wayfarer's Bauble in hand. And Landscape feels too slow. Costs 3 mana and 2 turns to ramp. I tried it but came with Sandstone Needle in it's place.
I don't know if you noticed, but I actually mention Copper Gnomes in my first batch of changes. That said, after playing with it a lot, I cut it. At least for my prison-heavy build, I said several times that mana is an important asset. I use ALL my mana every turn to deploy things and take control of the game. So stuff that costs mana to activate are always a pain and mostly sit there unactivated until I don't even need them anymore to win. So I really don't like things that activate for mana. Also, I have a LOT of cheap artifacts, so a lot of the times I could resolve Copper Gnomes, it was just better to play my artifact than to Gnome it in. Why? Because I want my opponent to counter my stuff so I can resolve a Daretti or a Wildfire or something like that. If Gnomes made Daretti uncounterable, then that would be awesome. Since he doesn't, I feel he has an ability that is overcosted for the deck. He only really shines once Daretti is in play, because you can draw something relevant, reanimate him and play immediately instead of having to discard and reanimate next turn. Also, he dies to your early creature removal.
The same is true for Phyrexian Processor: needing to pay 4 is too much for me. If I ever wanted an effect like this I'd rather have Myr Incubator again since it wins immediately.
Moltensteel Dragon seems like an awesome beater. I didn't know this card. I wonder what to cut for it... my list has little place for creatures that do nothing but beat the opponents face. I'd say Batterskull and Steel Hellkite do a lot more than this. Also, I don't mind having my kill conditions cost more, since early game you want to deploy prison elements and Daretti. So this costing 4 vs Wurmcoil Engine at 7 and Myr Battlesphere at 7 is no big deal. That said, I'm tempted to try this out, since he is a flyer and pumps for no mana.
I'm considering Icy Manipulator again, since I run Static Orb. I know Manipulator holds on his own and is a lock piece, but the interaction with Orb is game breaking.
@Gao Qiu said well about the others, so I'll leave it at that.
Thanks for your analysis.
I have a question on Static Orb : How do you use it ? I never tested the card, and i can't really see how useful it can be...
Edit : In the same way, i never tested neither saw a Memory Jar in action. Is it that good ? I kinda fear to give Reanimator a way to discard freely.
Orb works with a tap engine (such as Opposition or Icy Manipulator). You hinder an opponent's board and then tap the Orb on their end step, and then all of your cards untap. This was because back in the day, "tapping a noncreature artifact turns it off" (this is why Howling Mine is worded as it is). Winter Orb was never printed with the clause as it wasn't printed after 5th Ed (so it's a bit ambiguous as to whether or not it works with tap effects, although Oracle text suggests it doesn't).
If you play enough of these artifacts then Blinkmoth Well may be worth considering.
About Static Orb, I normally play it to earn a few turn against any deck or to slow swarm beatdown. It they're full tapped or their creatures attacked last turn, it holds them off a lot. If Daretti is in play, then you get a lot of activations with him in the meantime. Coupled with Tangle Wire, it can earn you a lot of turns. Anyway, I played Static Orb even without Manipulator or Well, since it does the job alone. But yes, you need to be VERY wary of playing it. It won me many games though - and it was one of the reason I decided to add Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus to the deck.
About Memory Jar: activating it against reanimator is a judgement call. The fact that you draw a LOT of cards and they don't is awesome by itself. Normally, if I have enough mana, activating Jar is GG, since my board presence heightens tremendously. Also, if you're playing 2-3 gy hate cards, then the chance of hitting one of them with Jar is big. And, if you really want to dig, you can activated Jar, Daretti it in again and activate again to look at 14 cards. I can't stress enough how awesome Jar is.
EDIT: but that's a reason why I don't play Wheel of Fortune or similar effects. I want to have a Draw 7 with all my mana available. Wheel costs 3, and that alone hinders you draw. Also, the opponent has to discard his new hand so outside reanimator he pretty much draws nothing. And Jar can be reanimated by Daretti, so it's all good.
So, I played today with Daretti again in a 3 round small tournament, facing Braids, Ghave and Kaalia to a 3-0 record (2-1, 2-0, 2-1). So as of today I stand undefeated in tournaments with the deck, with a modest record of 5-0-1. That said, I've played many other matches with it, specially against Prossh, Narset, Geist and reanimator. Only the last two were real problems, and that was before this weeks banned list announcement. I wonder that after my changes both matches against Reanimator and Geist improved quite a bit.
Anyway, this post is going to be long, so I'll tell what's gonna be: first I'll write a small report of today's tournament, and then I'm gonna post my list and comment changes and card choices.
So, I was at the same time scared and happy to face Braids. Scared because I know how dreadful it can be, but calm because I've been brewing Braids myself this week and know exactly how to tackle the matchup.
So game 1 I do a pretty ballsy thing (I'm proud of it, if you can tell hahaha). I kept a 6-card hand that had only lands. Yeah, that's right. It proved to be quite good after he Duressed me turn 1 and found nothing to discard. I kept evolving my board as he didn't drop an early Braids. Daretti hit the table and started cycling lands into relevant stuff. He had a Nihil Spellbomb in play so I was extra careful to not discard relevant stuff but to bait with enough juicy things for him to need to blow it up. He ven managed to clean my graveyard twice with a Bojuka Bog. But Daretti kept drawing me permanents and the Braids race was lost for him. After I ultimated Daretti and dropped a Wurmcoil Engine on the table, he conceded.
Game 2 he dropped Sphere of Resistance turn 2 and I followed with Ruby Medallion, dropping a Crucible of Worlds next turn. He followed with a Lodestone Golem and I was soon stuck on 5 lands, sacrificing one to Braids every turn and bringing it back. One of my lands was Maze of Ith (which produced mana because he had an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out), which helped me endure a few turns of Braids beatdown. But I kept drawing 4-5 mana cards, not able to play them. The crucial mistake I made was to think Urborg was still on the table and bring Maze back instead of a mountain, so I didn't have the mana to play the outs I drew into. He soon followed with a Phyrexian Totem which proved too much for me. It's funny how drawing a 2 mana land would have won me the game since I had Wildfire in hand...
Game 3 I started playing and boy, did that help. I had a fast hand that dropped Daretti turn 3, which made a Myr Battlesphere turn 4, for which he promptly conceded. I think he was hasty to do that, but he said he had no outs for a token producer of that size.
I can't say winning this match proves anything for the deck, since my opponent was clearly on a budget build. I won game 1 with a Wildfire that cleaned his table and left him with 3 lands and me with a full table. Game 2 I kept a Magus of the Moon in my hand, in spite of seeing mostly basic lands game 1. That proved correct, since his first 4 land drops were non-basic. When he finally got colored mana, it was way too late for him to crawl back to the game. It's funny how an aggro deck that isn't tuned enough can't even begin to threat this deck.
I was scared of this match. Kaalia is a very powerful general and normally 1 attack phase is enough to destroy this deck completely. I'm mostly afraid of Ashen Rider, as in reanimator. Also, I was scared that my plan to take out Volcanic Fallout and Dead//Gone before the tournament would bite me. Both cards deal with Kaalia quite well, so I felt underprepared for the match.
Game 1 I play something relevant turn 2 (I don't remember what) followed by a Magus of the Moon turn 3. He was completely taken back by this, since he fetched the first 2 turns for duals and had only fetches in hand. That alone earned me a lot of free turns, where I slowly developed my table with Smokestack, Tangle Wire and things like that. He managed to find a topdecked Dismember to take Magus out, but it was way too late then. The game ended with him having Dark Confidant and Stoneforge Mystic in play, and me topdecking a Ugin, the Spirit Dragon to clean his table. I don't even think he could've won if I didn't draw Ugin since my hand was Anger of the Gods and Phyrexian Revoker (so I could Anger to take out the dudes and then Revoke the Lightning Greaves). I also had a Koth of the Hammer in play with 5 counters, so I could ultimate him to kill with mountains.
Funny how he managed to play Nevermore naming Daretti and my draws were so tight I didn't even need Daretti to win the game with no trouble. I loved that game, since I designed the deck exactly to play it's gameplan despite not having the commander. Happy it works!
Game 2 well... what can I say? He did what he's supposed to do. The main play he did that turned the game around was a Chrome Mox turn 3, which allowed him to drop Ajani Vengeant turn 3 and keep me always 1 mana away from Wildfire (again). Man, if I had 1 more mana that game I'd have destroyed his life hahaha. Anyway, he dropped Kaalia next turn, attacked the other turn putting Rune-Scarred Demon into play and I conceded once I drew into nothing - knowing I'd be comboed out next turn. Man... all I could think was Dead/Gone and Volcanic Fallout...
Game 3 I did mysecond ballsy play of the day, which I'm proud of. I had a hand with Crystal Vein, Dwarven Ruins, Thran Dynamo, Ensnaring Bridge, Tangle Wire, Shattering Spree and Mountain so I felt pretty confident. Spree is awesome to kill early rocks and Lightning Greaves. Also, both 2-mana-lands told me I could be quick enough to deploy my game plan. My only fear was a turn 1 Duress/Thoughtseize, which luckly didn't happen. By the way, the card I feared the most during the whole tournament but never got played against me was Hymn to Tourach. Man, I had so many hands that could be screwed by a turn 2 Hymn...
Anyway, I played Dwarven Ruins and passed. He played mana go. I then decided on my turn that having Ensnaring Bridge on the table was way too important to have wait another turn. I could then play and sac Crystal Vein to have 3, but that would set me way back. So I decided the way to go was sac both lands to drop Thran Dynamo and use Dynamo to play Bridge, leaving my table with only Bridge and Dynamo in play (that was the ballsy play... I don't know how many player would have dumped both lands like that, but maybe I'm giving this play more credit than it deserves).
He played a second turn Night's Whisper and I followed with turn 3 Tangle Wire. Daretti soon followed coupled with a Worn Powerstone, Crucible of Worlds and the awesome Winter Orb. Winter Orb hindered him so much that you have no idea how much is won this game almost alone. Not alone because I had Dynamo and Powerstone on my side to make my side untap more.
He tutored for what I learned later was a Council's Judgment to try and take out Orb, but it was too late. I had Memory Jar in play and hit it, drawing Wurmcoil Engine, Batterskull, Burning of Xinye, Gamble, Shattering Spree and 2 lands. I played the land and, having 8 mana available, went into the think tank. He had just tutored and my reasoning was he could've searched for a Reanimate, knowing he would discard to Memory Jar and planning ahead. So after much consideration and thinking about that probable plan, I decided to Gamble for Karn Liberated. If he discarded Karn, I could Wildfire, leaving him with 1 land and hoping his reanimated creature wouldn't screw me. If he discarded anything else, Karn would be there for me later. I played Karn and won next turn.
Thinking in retrospect, I guess the right play would be to play Burning of X first and then Gamble for Wasteland, leaving him with no mana. But it worked out anyway
2-1
So, I'm pretty happy with how the deck played out and how the new unbannings worked wonderfully. Hope you guys enjoy this small report.
Thanks @3drinks, I'm putting a lot of time in these posts, glad to see people liking.
So, to the decklist. I made a lot of small changes to get from the version 1 of the deck (on the OP) to this one, but here I'll just consider everything as a big batch of changes.
-Generator Servant
+Torpor Orb
Servant was OK, I guess. But I needed the extra lock piece. Torpor Orb, though, is also a meta call. Can be graveyard hate if your meta has that. In my meta Torpor Orb is more relevant.
-Squee, Goblin Nabob
+Red Elemental Blast
I love Squee but felt most of the time I didn't need it. My reasoning here is that if I'm playing non-blue I'd discard REB anyway. And if I'm playing blue REB is much better. I was against this plan earlier, but after extensive testing I feel REB + Pyro + Boseiju + Expedition Map is extremely strong to help you deal with annoying things like Geist.
-Dead/Gone
+Pyroblast
This was the slot I found to jam Pyroblast in but man, do I miss Dead/Gone... I'm really looking for a slot for it right now. I wouldn't take Pyroblast out though, since it's been proving itself more and more.
-Volcanic Fallout
+Anger of the Gods
I also want to find room for Volcanic Fallout again. It's really good against Geist, Braids, Narset and Kaalia. I wonder what I can take out. This and Dead/Gone are the cards I want back in soon. I want Anger though, because dealing 3 damage is pretty relevant. Exiling the cards is also good against things like Karador. Not super relevant, but helps.
-Bonfire of the Damned
+Burning of Xinye
Didn't own Burning of X. This has been great, wouldn't go back ever. Having 2 Wildfires is so awesome I even consider playing Destructive Force. But if I ever wanted to do that I'd probably go for Devastation first - although I don't own one yet.
-Junk Diver
+Rolling Earthquake
Junk Diver seems good but it's junk. It was one of the first things I cut. I said it earlier in this thread, but things that only work well with Daretti in play are a no-no on my list. My match this week against Kaalia proved me right
Also, Rolling Earthquake kills planeswalkers. I didn't have it in the list because I didn't own one.
-Trash for Treasure
+Crucible of Worlds
I love Trash for Treasure, since it gives you a lot of room to do stuff without Daretti. That said, this deck is shaping more and more to be an early control deck and mid-late reanimator. There are a lot of times Trash would sit in my hand for several turns and I always hated drawing it early game. Crucible, on the other side, is just awesome. Helps against control by returning Boseiju if they ever destroy it, recurs Wasteland and works very well with Wildfire and against Braids and Armageddon.
-Darksteel Forge
+Aftershock
I originally cut Forge for Vandalblast. Now I'm playing Aftershock and loving it. Against Braids this week I used it to take a Crystal Vein out early and hinder his mana development to a point I could take over the game. Vandalblast is awesome, but I don't like having to many narrow cards in the deck. Aftershock's versatility earns points with me.
-Silent Arbiter
+Ensnaring Bridge
Covered this earlier. Bridge is awesome, Arbiter is not. Period. I didn't have it in the deck because I didn't own one.
-Mox Diamond
-Mox Opal
+Ruby Medallion
+Prismatic Lens
The moxes always failed on me. The mana rocks always make me happy as Daretti turn 3 becomes online. Funny how Ruby Medallion seems subpar but it's actually pretty nice. There are times though I with it actually added mana (happened this week) so maybe I'll try another rock there. Have to think which one, since I'd probably want one that comes into play untapped.
-Solemn Simulacrum
+Thran Dynamo
One "big mana rock" for another. Never looked back. Thran Dynamo makes playing Ugin, Karn and Wildfire so much easier. It also shines now that Winter Orb is back.
-Unstable Obelisk
+Gilded Lotus
Cutting Obelisk hurt, but only on paper. Having another spot removal would be good, but it costs too much. Now that we have Ugin, Obelisk doesn't feel that important anymore. Gilded Lotus, on the other hand, is an awesome early reanimate. Coupled with Dynamo I've been very happy with all that mana. I use Daretti's -2 a lot to bring this guys to play.
-Basalt Monolith
+Koth of the Hammer
Basalt was OK, but slow. Koth wins games by himself. The only lame thing is that he can't protect himself. This week, though, he did so much for me... his -2 is incredible. Love him.
-Tormod's Crypt
+Tsabo's Web
Another meta slot. I love Tsabo's Web, but in my meta it's really not shining that much. If it's just for the cycling, maybe Phyrexian Furnace or Scrabbling Claws could be better in that slot. I guess I'd only change this if I had a graveyard package coming in. Having just 1 is too few.
-Mana Web
+Winter Orb
Mana Web didn't work well against aggro, just against counters. Winter Orb wrecks everyone. Man, how I love Winter Orb. Been wanting to pick an alpha/beta one for so long now...
-Ichor Wellspring
+Expedition Map
Ichor Wellspring was always subpar for me. Yeah it draws cards but... meh. Expedition Map, finding that Wasteland/Boseiju at the right time, is incredible though. With Crucible now available, it's a must have.
-Clock of Omens
+Cursed Totem
I will never ever cut Cursed Totem. I don't even know why I didn't have it on my initial list. It's SO good. Stops elfball by itself, and cuts of a lot of relevant creatures. Our deck only suffers in Goblin Welder and Kuldotha Forgemaster, both of which you can activate at the right time by taking Totem out with Daretti.
-Helm of Possession
+Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Helm became Tawnos's Coffin once I started reducing creatures on the deck. I then realized the 3 mana Coffin requires is, as I always said, too much for me. Ugin is so powerful, so powerful, specially with Dynamo and Gilded Lotus, that man, I don't even need spot removal anymore. Seriously, I once kept a hand that had mana, Thran Dynamo a Volc Fallout and an Ugin against Narset. A friend of mine said to me: "Are you keeping that Ugin? That's terrible?". Wouldn't you guess that he alone won that match? (tip: most of the time you need something broken in your hand. A lot of the time you have the means to play something big but have nothing at your disposal)
-Ugin's Nexus
+Staff of Nin
Another change I'd never undo. Staff is awesome. Ugin's Nexus hurts so few decks that I don't even want to list them. It also only works with Daretti in play, which as I said several times, is bad.
-Myr Incubator
+Batterskull
This is an open slot. I like Incubator alot, but 6 mana is harsh. That said, it's 6 mana that wins you the game on the spot. I think this is the slot for the "dumb beater" we talked about here. It can be anything to your liking: Steel Hellkite, Triskelavus, etc. I like Batterskull because of the lifelink. It IS relevant. This could also become an Icy Manipulator if needed, but I think I'd rather have Batterskull.
I'm really happy with this list and feel it's VERY strong. Winter Orb and Crucible of Worlds made the deck a lot better. I'll probably try to make room for Icy Manipulator, since as people pointed out here, it's good to lock mana and to tap things like Kaalia.
Also, I think I should point out why I prefer Crystal Ball over Sensei's Divining Top: Daretti has no way to shuffle and even if I could arrange my top 3 to draw the best 2 with Daretti, what I need is relevant draws. Every time I see Crystal Ball, I'm happy. If that was a Top, I'd be worried I wouldn't find answers with it. Also, people tend to think Crystal Ball is harmless and leave it in play, which is great
Devastation
If I ever find a slot for another mass removal, this is it.
Volcanic Vision
I wonder if this can be any good here. Probably not, right?
Ward of Bones
I've seen this card in Top 8 lists on the net. Never tested it. It seems not that good, but maybe it's one of those gems you gotta play to understand.
Hum, interesting, I didn't think of that. But I don't know if I want to have a card that has to meet a certain condition to work well. Top without the fetches would be lame. I have a few other shuffle effects: Kuldotha, Gamble Expedition Map and Mycosynth Wellspring, but I don't know if that's enough. But your right, I'll definitely test it!
Hum, interesting, I didn't think of that. But I don't know if I want to have a card that has to meet a certain condition to work well. Top without the fetches would be lame. I have a few other shuffle effects: Kuldotha, Gamble Expedition Map and Mycosynth Wellspring, but I don't know if that's enough. But your right, I'll definitely test it!
In a deck like this, I believe Divining Top is invaluable to your plan (and can be played alongside Crystal Ball as it's unlikely you see both in a game (and if you do, one makes excellent Daretti fodder). You're right it's bad without shuffles, and there are decks I wouldn't touch it (something like my Zurgo AiR build, where I'm focused on damage now, damage asap) where Top is a bad mana sink because it doesn't provide extra damage. Anyway, that's a cornercase, and it's not what your deck is doing.
Cut most of the utility lands down to just bare essentials. Tsabo's Web is less of a liability now that most of the lands I run won't be affected. Added fetches, which goes well with Crucible, Top, and Koth of the Hammer. Might run Myriad Landscape later, but the manabase feels strong right now. I've played all the major Mishra's Workshop decks in Vintage, and I can tell you that without lands that produce a lot of mana, cards like Sphere of Resistance are really bad (the exception to this would be GAAIV, maaaybe). Especially with the sac lands. Lands coming in tapped are bad. Sacrificing your lands to get big spells out sooner, only to be countered or destroyed, is something a mono red deck can rarely recover from.
Ruby Medallion is not good, trust me. It only works with 15 cards in your deck, including Daretti (16 if you count the flashback for Looting). Take this out for another rock, like Prismatic Lens.
I'm also not running stuff like Forgemaster, Nev's Disk, or Scrap Mastery. These are either too slow or conditional. This deck is the closest thing EDH has to Stax, which means you must be constantly denying them resources or gaining some kind of card advantage. I once heard Stax decks being compared to a boa constrictor, squeezing you slowly turn after turn until it's too late. That's what I'm trying to accomplish here. On that note, also not running Jokulhaups, because it kills all our artifacts. If I were to run another big sweeper, it'd be Devastation.
Some of my other unorthodox choices:
Ward of Bones & Stranglehold - These haven't had a chance to shine, yet, but I have a lot of hope for them.
Cursed Totem - This card is fantastic and a complete staple for the deck. The only creature it affects is Welder, so this probably won't be an issue that often.
Mana Web - Another great card, especially against control. Now this is even better with Winter Orb.
Mox Opal - My artifact count isn't as high as some of the other lists mentioned here, but I still think Opal has a place in the deck. Most of the time it will produce mana, and if not, it's a free artifact I can weld out with Daretti. This is good because you usually have to weld out your mana rocks, so you get to keep those instead. I may change my mind on this later but I'm happy with it for now.
Also, I'm not running any grave hate. I want to get my matchups against the majority of decks understood and solid before I start specializing. I think Moondust has the right idea with the 3 Furnaces he's running.
Yeah, Sphere effects are bad in this deck, I agree. The only one I play is Trinisphere and there are times I don't like it. It hurts you way less than the opponent, but I'd be willing to trade if for another cheap prison effect if I ever found one.
Anyway, how's the deck doing for you, mutedequilibrium? I wanted to comment card choices more thoroughly so I did a comparison between our decklists. Did you use my original decklist as a base for yours? I'd feel honored if you did.
LANDS
IN
4 Mountains
4 fetches
OUT
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Maze of Ith
1 Great Furnace
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Tectonic Edge
I don't understand why you don't like these lands. I'd probably be willing to take out Inkmoth and Factory before any of these. You don't play Expedition Map (which I'll discuss later) so Boseiju/Maze are probably worse in your list. Great Furnace is debatable too. It could be that a basic Mountain or a fetch are better. But man, do I like to resolve Daretti and have something to sac immediately without taking any of my lock pieces out. Furnace plays an important role to maintain early control.
About the 2 mana lands, I really, really can't understand why you wouldn't run them. They're AMAZING and make aggro matches much easier. I'd NEVER have won that match against Kaalia if it wasn't for these lands. Also, City of Traitors is so amazing I can't even... Many times I have dropped Magus/Blood Moon turn 2 with City, only to have it not sacrificed later turns because now it's a mountain.
Most importantly, these 4 cards make you able to shift roles. Choosing correctly if you want to be the beatdown or not is crucial to win with Daretti, and without this lands it's impossible.
About fetches, I haven't tested them yet, but I'd say they do 2 things badly here. First they're not that great for Top if you have a Blood Moon down. Second they give your opponent an early land disruption if he's playing Stifle/Trickbind. This deck has so little effects that he wants to counter that taking out a land may be much more relevant. I'd say if I'm playing vs Clique or Geist and he Stifles my fetch, it's game over. Third, they thin out lands on your deck, which is bad if you want to reset the table and race your opponent in land drops.
Also, why Snow-Covered Mountains? Just because? I'd advise against it since Braids is back and they probably play Icequake. I mean, you can play Skred or Glacial Crevasses if you want
Also: Rishadan Port vs Arcane Lighthouse
I would trade Arcane Lighthouse for Rishadan Port if I had one, it's clearly a better card.
Sensei's Divining top vs Crystal Ball
I have my doubts about Top. And I love Crystal Ball. Maybe this comes to play style. As I said, I'll try and run the fetches plan, but I don't think it works that well in theory.
REMOVAL/GLOBALS
IN
Dead // Gone
Flamebreak
Mizzium Mortars
Pyroclasm
Whipflare
OUT
Pyroblast
Aftershock
Nevinyrral's Disk
Contagion Engine
Spine of Ish Sah
Pyroblast vs Dead // Gone is a judgment call, I guess. Maybe meta dependant. Since you're not playing Expedition Map or Boseiju, I'd say Pyro is better. You really want to resolve a few key spells (mostly Wildfire, etc) against hard control.
I hate Flamebreak, since it doesn't hit one of the main problems of the deck: early flyers. You need your removal to take out flyers (this is why you play Rolling Earthquake and not Earthquake, for example). Also hitting RRR in my deck is quite prohibitive. Aftershock plays a much broader role than this and is an easy swap for me. I'd also play Volcanic Fallout before it.
I also don't like Pyroclasm or Whipflare, since I think 3 thoughness creatures are very hard to deal with. You dismiss Nevinyrral's Disk, but together with Spine of Ish-Sah they play an important role in taking out enchantments. There are a lot of enchantments you need to take care of. Disk is awesome also because if leaves Daretti alone. Contagion Engine vs Mizzium Mortars is play style. I can understand why you'd want Mortars and maybe it's a better card overall - although if I'm trying to find room for Dead/Gone I'd probably use it before Mortars.
All is Dust vs Jokulhaups
I have no idea why you prefer All is Dust. Is it because of indestructible/regeneration? Did you ever find that to be a problem? I mean, the only thing I can think of is Thrun, the Last Troll. The opponent having artifact creatures or relevant artifact creatures seem to me much more probable, making All is Dust worse.
My problem with All is Dust is that it takes Daretti out. I won so many games by playing Jokulhaups or Wildfire and leaving only Daretti on the table. Also, All is Dust doesn't destroy lands, which is for me pretty important.
Ward of Bones vs Smokestack
You need Smokestack, man. If you ever played MUD in Vintage back in the day you know what it is. It won me many games singlehanded. If you're worried that Ward of Bones or Stranglehold aren't doing what they should, take one out and put STAX in. It's awesome (and one of the reasons I love Contagion Engine)
MANA ROCKS
Wayfarer's Bauble vs Expedition Map
Both cost the same to play and activate. Man, I feel Map is SO much better. But that's because I use utility lands, right? In your deck Bauble if obviously the right choice. Now, why don't you use utility lands again?
Solemn Simulacrum vs Gilded Lotus
I kinda understand your take here, and I was there too in the early days with the deck, but man, does Lotus warrant it's maindeck position... it makes playing awesome stuff like Ugin and Karn much easier. Can also be "welded in" for extra mana. You tap a mana rock, -2 Daretti and bring this in.
Fractured Powerstone vs Ruby Medallion
You're probably right on this one. I'll trade Medallion for Powerstone, since I think it's better than Fellwar Stone or Mox Opal. But Sphere of the Suns may be even better, but I'm not sure.
LOCK PIECES
Stranglehold/Mana Web vs Static Orb/Trinisphere
I haven't thought about Mana Web together with Winter Orb, which seems amazing and makes Mana Web relevant in non-blue matchups. My problem with mana Web is that against non-blue decks it just sits there doing nothing. After I came up with the Pyro/RED/Boseiju/Map plan, I feel I don't need this anymore and things like Static Orb and Trinisphere do more to hurt blue than Mana Web. How's it been working for you?
I find Static Orb relevant against aggro since it holds their swarm back. I wouldn't take it out. But Trinisphere may be cut. Stranglehold seems good against Maelstrom and Narset, so maybe that helps. The problem with it is that it's an enchantment and can't be recurred. But yeah, maybe I'll try it instead of Trini.
UNRELATED CARDS
I divided these cards in what I think are relatable slots. But they're tradable, I just wanted to compare things I'd cut for another similar thing.
The cards are:
Fellwar Stone
Ichor Wellspring
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Mox Opal
Pilgrim's Eye
vs
Torpor Orb
Phyrexian Revoker
Scrap Mastery
Batterskull
Kuldotha Forgemaster
I'll chose what I think are the right options, but well, we can discuss that.
Fellwar Stone/Ichor Wellspring vs Torpor Orb/Phyrexian Revoker
I'm taking 2 two-mana cards and comparing them to another 2 mana cards. I don't miss another mana rock, and Fellwar Stone is pretty bad in my opinion, since if you go for Jokulhaups/Wildfire it may be useless. Sphere of the Suns may be better. Also, Ichor Wellspring is disappointing, specially when you compare it with Torpor Orb/Revoker. Revoker hurts planeswalkers, which is HUGE and I'd probably never take it out. Torpor Orb is a very cuttable slot, but I'd rather have it than any of these 2. Maybe I'd cut it for graveyard hate, which seems more relevant to me.
Squee, Goblin Nabob/Mox Opal/Pilgrim's Eye vs Scrap Mastery/Batterskull/Kuldotha Forgemaster
This cards are completely unrelated and were the leftovers once I tried to pair the whole rest. So I'll say that after I cut Squee, I never looked back. It only works with Daretti out and is a TERRIBLE topdeck late game. Yeah, you can Gamble for him early game to gain card advantage in the long run, but I'd much rather Gamble for something relevant. Mox Opal feels terrible accelerating my plan. The common play of 3rd turn Daretti is improved by nothing with it. I'd trade this for any mana rock or even for City of Traitors if you want.
Pilgrim's Eye is OK, I have nothing bad to say about it. But wouldn't you rather have Basalt Monolith? I feel both are too slow though.
I believe Scrap Mastery, Batterskull and Kuldotha are all fragile slots and can be taken out easily. That said, Batterskull helps a lot against fast aggro and can be recurred even without Daretti if the just kill the Germ. Kuldotha has been an in and out card for me. Sometimes I take it out. But it's good that it can win the game alone against a lot of decks. Being able to fetch Contagion Engine against aggro or elfball, Winter Orb, Spine of Ish Sah and Myr Battlesphere is incredible. Not even mentioning the game-breaking Mindslaver. It IS slow, and as I said can become anything else you think you need (I'll probably cut it for Devastation)
Now, Scrap Mastery I love. I know you think it's situational, and it is, in a sense, but it turns games around. It can kill opponents artifacts that are hurting you (Null Rod, for example) and has another two VERY important roles: it's my insurance against mass artifact removal like Bane of Progress and a lot of stuff like that, which makes me not scoop to things like that (or even fear them that much); and, most of all, it makes all the counters you opponent wasted on your lock pieces irrelevant. I've won a few games agains hard control by playing into their counters and winning through a resolving Mastery. I understand it's a slot that can go, but my experience with it has been so good I won't take it out soon.
CARDS YOU WANT TO ADD
Myriad Landscape, Galvanic Blast and Uba Mask are bad, don't do that. Uba Mask is tempting (specially if you own a Bazaar of Baghdad, which I do), but it hurts Daretti's +2 and Staff of Nin/Coercive Portal too much. The most important thing to note is that Daretti (at list this build) is a control deck. So you need to plan how to play your hand carefully. Being forced to play what you just drew is bad.
Galvanic Blast is worse than Mizzium Mortars as early creature removal. I don't really like Metalcraft here, since we have a lot of non-artifact cards. Also, you need Great Furnace for them to work, so if you keep Mox Opal or add this, be sure to add Furnace too.
Myriad Landscape is not terrible, but incredibly slow. ANY 2 mana land is better than it, in my opinion.
Thanks Gao Qiu! I'll gladly do reports of any tournament I play with this awesome deck!
About Boseiju, against aggro you just don't play it. It works pretty much like Pyro/REB against non-blue decks. If it's in your initial hand against aggro you can mulligan it like it wasn't a land. And since in my list you drop Daretti almost always turn 3 against aggro, you can easily discard it early. I've never encountered a scenario where this bit me back (and all I played against was aggro since I added Boseiju). Also, making Anger of the Gods and Slagstorm uncounterable is invaluable against Narset/Geist. I'd only add it if I have both Expedition Map and Crucible in the deck though.
You're probably right about Devastation vs Jokulhaups. I don't own one yet, though, but it's right next in my buy list, together with portal Wildfire, Cruel Tutor and my 23rd beta Mountain
BUT, I'll say one thing: costing only 6 mana IS relevant. There were a few times where my chances to win were to build for an early Jokulhaups/Wildfire/Burning of X and not needing the 7th mana was really important. The extra turn it takes to play Devastation vs Jokulhaups can really hurt you. That's the same reason I don't play Destructive Force.
Okay, big reply time! First, yeah, I used your list and one of the other lists on mtgtop8.com as inspiration (I think I mentioned this a few posts back). So far I'm loving the deck. It's fantastic vs creature decks. Haven't had a chance to play much control yet though. Anyway, some replies:
I actually love utility lands, and think Boseiju and Maze of Ith seem totally fine. My issue with the 2 mana sac lands is they're so "all in." It doesn't seem like the deck has enough game ending bombs to warrant them. Blood Moon is a good example, but it feels like there should be more. Have you thought about running Metalworker? That would seem worth it to play that turn 2, and go nuts turn 3. As far as fetches being Stifled, sure, that's true, but there are plenty of bigger things to Stifle. I usually don't lead with a fetch land anyway, so I'm not too worried about that.
Port is seriously good, so definitely run that!
I played against a Nin player tonight that was running a ton of artifacts, and he ran Trading Post. The game went loooong, and this ended up getting him back his artifacts I had destroyed. First time seeing the card since coming back into MTG. Have you thought of this? Seems like an awesome utility card for the long game. And it's a discard outlet for 1! I also had a few games where I drew probably 15 land over the course of 20 turns. I see what you mean about Ball, here, with the digging. I'm open to putting Ball back in after that. Oh, one more thing with Top: on the off chance you ever have it with Welder, you can use it as a card draw engine. Pay 1 to look at the top 3 cards, respond by tapping it to draw, then respond to that to weld Top out for something in your graveyard. Top goes to the grave, you draw a card, and then look at the top 3. You can repeat this every other turn as long as Welder is active. Again, off chance, but it's another thing going for it.
Let's break down what you said here. You mention that you don't like Pyroclasm and Whipflare because there are a bunch of 3 toughness creatures that are hard to deal with, but you don't like Flamebreak either, which deals with those. I never have issues with red, probably because I'm playing less utility lands. I've played somewhere around 20 or so games with this deck so far and the only flyers I've had to worry about were so big, Flamebreak wouldn't have killed them anyway. I like it for now.
I do love Aftershock, and considered it. I'd like to find room for that at some point.
As far as All is Dust, you got part of the reason: indestructible stuff. However, this is a good way to sweep a bunch of planeswalkers at once, and as you pointed out, there are a lot of enchantments we have a hard time getting rid of. That said, Gao Qiu made a good point about Devastation and I'll definitely put that in next. However, I think both spells should be in. So I have to find room. I've been thinking of Smokestack, too, and I'd love to fit that in. I do know how good it can be, it just feels more... 'fair' with the lands that are legal in this format.
I like Bauble here because it puts the land into play, rather simply fetching it. If I had more utility lands, Map would definitely be in.
Solemn is in mostly as a body to protect Daretti. I don't always play Daretti on turn 3. Sometimes I do a couple other things so that I can use Daretti's -2 as soon as he comes in. If you go turn 1 anything except Faithless Looting, turn 2 rock, and turn 3 Daretti, you're basically +1ing him and he's totally vulnerable. Solemn gives me something to do before that ramps me, protects Daretti next turn, and draws me a card if they throw something big my way.
Also, Mox Opal has been good so far. Though I do think you're right that I need more artifacts here. Metalcraft could be a thing if we ran Great Furnace and Metalworker! I'd be interested to try that, but I'd need to change the deck around a bit.
I think Trinisphere could be good, but it seems like it's really best early on, and you can't rush it into play without using 2 mana sac lands, and that's just an awful plan. Again, this is one of those cards that's amazing in Stax decks but is much less explosive in EDH. Mana Web does help vs aggro because they have to cast all their spells in one main phase, rather than some pre-combat and then more post-combat. From a psychology point of view, some people are going to simply make mistakes because they don't tap mana correctly, and I'm always down on overly complicating things for the opponent. Go go decision fatigue! But really, it's mostly there for control, though.
I think every deck has some amount of search, so Stranglehold feels good here. You'll likely play it back to back with a sweeper. Against green decks this is HUGE, because they can overwhelm you with ramp crazy fast. Nearly all of my games against elf-centric decks do some kind of tutoring after a sweeper, so in theory this should stop that.
Speaking of aggro, have you considered Smoke? Totally underrated card, I think. Any deck running red and not a lot of creatures should probably run it. A big reason is because enchantments seem like the hardest permanents to deal with in this format, and there are tons of creatures everywhere. I mostly play on Cockatrice and there's a critical mass of damage and creature removal due to creatures being everyone's main focus, then it drops down to just a couple bounce spells, 1-2 artifact removal, and hardly any enchantment removal. I see Smoke serving a similar role as Cursed Totem by halting fast decks that abuse mana dorks early on. Sometimes you don't have time to get to 3 mana for a sweeper and you need something ASAP (which is why I like the 'clasms). My main theory behind this is that since Daretti is a control deck, the early game is critical. If I can make it to the mid game with enough mana, I'm in awesome shape.
Fellwar Stone is really just another early game mana rock that I can weld out, later. For those games that I did something turn 2 instead of a mana rock (like a 'clasm or draw spell), it lets me play 2 mana rocks turn 3. Some games have been tight where I needed an additional mana, but I had a mana rock that came in tapped. However, you're right that it sucks when I've blown up all their lands. That hasn't happened to me in the 20 or so games I've played with this deck, yet, so we'll see if that's an issue later.
I can totally see cutting Ichor Wellspring, so that's not a problem. My only concern with Revoker is it dies to my sweepers, and sweepers happen a lot, every game. Same issue with Magus of the Moon: I have to choose between locking down something (their Planeswalker via Revoker, or land via Magus), or sweep all their guys. Sometimes that can go either way and luck is not what a mono red deck needs to rely on. Magus is still in, but it's on the watch list. I know, I know, he's good. And usually fantastic vs Control, so it's probably fine to leave him in and just discard him to Daretti against 1-2 color decks.
I can also see cutting Squee because it's only good when Daretti is out. I'm fine with that. Pilgrim's Eye is okay, but not exactly exciting. I'd probably cut it, too. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty happy with Mox Opal, so that stays for now. I may put Scrap Mastery back in as a way to deal with other artifact heavy decks.
Lastly, I think I'm going to take out Tormenting Voice and Wild Guess. I drew both (plus Looting) one game vs that artifact Nin deck and they did nothing. There are better card advantage cards / discard outlets. I'd rather just play more lock pieces / removal at this point. I'm going to test Vandalblast, too.
I think any list running 40+ artifacts is probably cool with Metalcraft. Maybe 42+. I'd have to crunch some stats to know for sure. Anafenza, the Foremost seems pretty annoying, and Galvanic Blast would deal with her (and all the other 3 toughness dudes you don't like).
Uba Mask is probably not what this deck wants, so that's fine. Just brainstorming there. I could see Myriad Landscape being better than a 2 mana sac land because I get to permanently keep those 2 lands, which don't go towards my land for the turn, and shuffles the deck. Again, I can't state enough how important it is to keep permanents out. Heavy counter decks can really ruin your day if you're losing spells and lands to counters.
Another card I considered adding was Karn, Silver Golem. 1, it's an alternate win condition in itself and works after a big sweeper. 2, you can also attack with him into some random blocker (which they almost always fall for), turning him into a Wall of Stone, and then use a damage sweeper to kill everything else. 3, one of the most appealing tricks with him is to turn your opponents artifacts into creatures and then kill them with a sweeper. 4, he makes Equipment fall off for 1. What are your thoughts here?
Also playing around with the idea of Pyrokinesis. You can tap out and still kill guys, which is nice. Also there's a surprise factor, which I'm sure no one will see coming. Might be too conditional, but I'm running nearly 20 red cards, so it's probably fine?
Lastly, I also considered Recoup. It fits well with Daretti since you can flash it back, and it would probably be good late game to recur another sweeper or artifact destruction. Fairly cheap, too. Might be too cute?
2 mana lands aren't that all in. You have a lot of options with them, specially Dwarven Ruins and Crystal Vein. What I think is important is to have the option to choose roles and speed, and these lands give you that. As I said, I'd never won against Kaalia if it weren't for the 2 mana lands. Also, against control they help surprise the opponent and land things under counters.
I considered Metalworker, but the artifact count is not that high to warrant it's inclusion. Also, it's a terrible late game top deck, since you're almost always with just a few cards in hand, none of which are artifacts.
I used Trading Post in my first list. Yeah it's versatile but man, is it SLOW. I find that these little effects that give you advantage over time are less important than game-breaking stuff in Daretti. Of course, I would play it if I had slots, but I don't think I'd trade anything for it right now.
I don't like Flamebreak because I think we have better options for that slot. Hitting planeswalkers is a thing, but I'd rather run Aftershock, Contagion Engine or something else instead of it. As I said, it's all a matter of finding slots, and I don't think Flamebreak makes it. Also, it has he problem of costing RRR, which is hard to achieve early in my list - and since it doesn't have a colorless in it's mana cost can't be played with Boseiju.
About Solemn Simulacrum, I also like it, and it also comes down to slots. Since I added Ugin I feel I need real ramp. Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus do that and are also immune to Winter Orb, which is really, really relevant. And remember, you only play Daretti turn 3 if he can survive the board. The nice thing is to have that option.
Trinisphere is best after Winter Orb, Static Orb or Wildfire/Jokulhaups/Devastation. It helps you make sure your opponent isn't coming back. It's also good against control, since it's a second Defense Grid.
I thought about Smoke a lot, but cut it because you can't sac it to Daretti once you need to punch your opponent. I may be wrong about it's power, since I never tested it extensively, but enchantments are hard in Daretti because you can't recur them and you can't take them out once you need it. I think my only enchantment is Blood Moon (and there were times where I wish I could take it out with Daretti).
I can't praise Magus or Revoker enough. Just go with them!
I wouldn't cut Voice nor Guess. They do 2 things for you: draw cards and discard things so Daretti can bring them in immediately. This is very relevant.
I thought about running things like Combust, Rending Volley or Roast to deal with Doran/Anafenza early. Seems good. But Dead // Gone is probably better than all.
The problem with Myriad Landscape is that it consumes 3 mana to activate and the lands enter tapped. You lose an entire turn to do that early in the game. Just test it: put Landscape in your starting hand. You will see that you'll only have time to fetch with it by turn 7 or so.
I love Karn, Silver Golem. It comes down to slots. I don't thing transforming my lock pieces in creatures is good since it gives your opponents more outs. He protects Daretti greatly though. I just don't see where he could come in. Batterskull? I think I'd rather gain life than have Karn. I don't know. He's always on my watch list, but I never find room for him. If you ever want to add Mycosynth Lattice (Lattice also works well with Nevinyrral's Disk hehe)
I thought about Recoup, but if you want to recur stuff Codex Shredder is probably better.
We'll see if these lands are all they're cracked up to be I'm going to give this iteration of the deck a good 20-25 games to see how I feel about everything.
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Current list (30 life, before Kaladesh)
24 Mountain
1 Blinkmoth Well
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Great Furnace
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 Command Beacon
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Rishadan Port
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Maze of Ith
1 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Lodestone Myr
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blood Moon
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mind Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Fractured Powerstone
1 Thought Vessel
1 Fire Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cursed Totem
1 Defense Grid
1 Winter Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crystal Ball
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Smokestack
1 Coercive Portal
1 Static Orb
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Staff of Nin
1 Mindslaver
1 Pyroblast
1 Dead // Gone
1 Chaos Warp
1 Slagstorm
1 Sudden Demise
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Ruination
1 Wildfire
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Jokulhaups
1 Devastation
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Aftershock
1 Fiery Confluence
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Gamble
1 Scrap Mastery
My matches were Sygg, River Cuthroath (1-1), GAAIV (2-0) and Captain Sisay (2-0). I lost only one game, to Sygg, because he landed an early Pithing Needle on Daretti and followed it by a Jace. That's a nightmare scenario for me. I should probably add more artifact hate and include a few burn spells to deal with planeswalkers. Or maybe substitute Sudden Demise with a Earthquake or Rolling Earthquake.
So, here's the decklist I played:
23 Mountain
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Great Furnace
1 Buried Ruin
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Vesuva
1 Goblin Welder
1 Generator Servant
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Junk Diver
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Blood Moon
1 Mox Opal
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mox Diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mana Web
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Defense Grid
1 Crystal Ball
1 Static Orb
1 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Smokestack
1 Mishra's Helix
1 Clock of Omens
1 Helm of Possession
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Coercive Portal
1 Ugin's Nexus
1 Memory Jar
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Myr Incubator
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Dead/Gone
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Slagstorm
1 Sudden Demise
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Jokulhaups
1 Wildfire
1 Shattering Spree
1 Ruination
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Gamble
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Scrap Mastery
REPORT:
1- vs Sygg, River Cutthroath
This was a very atypical match, since in the 3 games we played he had an early Pithing Needle. I REALLY need to up my artifact hate against this. Needle and Null Rod are total nightmares. I need at least a Vandalblast.
So, G1 and G2 were very, trivial. First game he locked me with early Needle and Jace. Second game I managed to take Needle out and control his mana until I Sundering Titan'ed him.
The 3rd game, though, was very fun and made me understand a lot of problems with the deck. I had the perfect start. City of Traitors into Defense Grid. Then into a mana rock, Daretti and Tangle Wire in the following turns, where he could do nothing. When he got the first chance, though, he played Pithing Needle once again, locking Daretti. I took loads of time without finding removal for the Needle. I was controlling the game (Static Orb had joined in the fun) but never had a relevant threat/clock. I kept controlling his beats and eventually dropped a Silent Arbiter so I could protect my Daretti. He then got to a ton of mana and dropped Jace. We went on a drawing race and eventually I found and reanimated a Myr Incubator. The very turn where I got the mana to win via Incubator, he found and played an Engineered Plague. Damn you, Jace!
We were on 5 turns already, so I went for the ultimate plan: the Jokulhaups for the 1-1 Draw!
0-1-0
(what I learned from this is that I need more threats/lock pieces, I need more artifact removal and that Static Orb is very dangerous if no played carefully: it can hurt me a lot more than him if we are on a "draw-go" game state)
2- vs Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
These matches were absolutelly brutal. I can't even remeber much of what happened, since in both games he barelly got to play relevant spells. I can tell Coercive Portal is incredible and can help you outdraw him. I also managed to destroy his table with GAA, Restoration Angel, Venser, Shaper Savant and Oblivion Ring with it (because I had a few things on my side and he knew I could outdraw him if Portal didn't go). He didn't know I'd follow if with Wildfire.
Game 2 was fun, though. He took my first 2 lock pieces with Detention Sphere and Oblivion Ring, but I managed to survive and land a Daretti - he had to tap out to take Defense Grid. Once Daretti was in play everything went better. The problem, though, is that once again I didn't find relevant threats/locks. He managed to land Grand Arbiter and keep Daretti on 3 to 5 counters. Eventually I managed to land a Smokestack followed by a Contagion Engine - taking out his Grand Arbiter and ramping Smokestack to 4 in 1 turn. I had a Phyrexia's Core on the table, so it was only a matter of time before I could ultimate Daretti (already on 9 counters) and make Smokestack invincible. He scooped.
1-1-0
3- vs Captain Sisay
Along with Prossh, this is probably the deck to beat in my meta, and you always have to plan for this matchup (he plays quite well). My fears here are early Needles, Gaddock Teeg with no answer or Dark Depths.
G1 was probably the most interesting of the day, since I managed to survive a Marit Lage token. He started with Lightning Greaves and an elf. My side saw a 1st turn Needle on Sisay followed by a mana rock. he dropped lands, having little gas, and I dropped Daretti. Eventually, I got Kuldotha Forgemaster online. He played Mangara of Corondor, with haste because of the Greaves and immediatelly removed my Needle. In response, I sac'ed it for Kuldotha, getting Contagion Engine and killing his 3 elves with it (I should've done this in response to him equipping Mangara...). Next turn Forgemaster is joined by a hardcasted Wurmcoil. He dropped a Dark Depths and activated the already in play Thespian Stage (which I totally didn't see), making a 20/20 haste Marit. I was at 20-something. He didn't hit, because he was afraid I could kill him next turn (which was probably true, since I could fetch for Battlesphere and hit him for 21 (Sphere, Kuldotha, Wurmcoil). But after he passed he realized his mistake: he had that green creature that had Pro-Blue and untaps a creature... I forgot the name.
EOT I fetch for Mindslaver. I slave his turn, dropping Helm of Possession alongside with it. On his turn I manage to leave him with 2 lands, no forest, and a Marit Lage without shroud, stealing the Marit Lage on my turn. (I forgot a few details... maybe I took out the Greaves via Scraping Mastery, but I don't remember).
G2 was similar, he had a better start than G1, this time with Sylvan Library, mana dorks and Gaddock. But I had the perfect outs: Pithing Needle and Slagstorm. After I took Gaddock out, Daretti took over pretty quickly.
2-1-0
So that was it! I won (got a Chrome Mox that I'll try to trade into an Ensnaring Bridge!) and got very proud of this early acomplishment with Daretti. I feel he's very good, but can have a lot of trouble with Tier 1 decks like Reanimator or Marath. Those are not present in my meta, though (I am the only one that plays Reanimator). Against Marath I feel Bridge, Forcefield and Witchbane Orb could be good. Against Reanimator, maybe 1 or 2 more graveyard hates, along with Tawnos's Coffin and Ensnaring Bridge should help a lot.
I feel the deck is forced to play very slowly against blue. So maybe I was wrong on the Pyro/REB thing. It would make much more confortable if I had Painter's Servant and Imperial Recruiter, but maybe I could add 1 Pyroblast, 1 REB and even 1 Overmaster or 1 Boseiju to try and overcome counter walls. Bringing Lodestone back may help too.
CARD CHOICES
The main thing that defined my card choices were: most of the cards should affect the board as soon as they come in; and I should prioritize cards that do what they do without costing me mana. The deck needs to use its mana every turn, so having to spend mana to do effects can slow you down a lot. This is relevant because you need to be able to PLAY threats, not only reanimate them. The deck should work without Daretti, so you need to be able to pay for most of your cards, even if it's just to draw counters and make your way to resolving Daretti.
MANABASE
23 Mountain
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Great Furnace
1 Buried Ruin
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Vesuva
So far, I'm happy with all my non-basic lands, except Arcane Lighthouse and the manlands. I mean, Factory is good to hold early beats, but that was almost never relevant, and Maze of Ith does a much better job than Factory at this... the only problem with Maze is that there are a few times where I hold out on playing Blood Moon because of it. That should change with Ensnaring Bridge coming in, though.
So, what I could do is take this 3 lands out and bring in things like Boseiju, Dwarven Ruins and Sandstone Needle. Or maybe even another basic Mountain. It depends a lot on meta. Sandstone Needle should come in, though.
Vesuva is another open slot. I liked it so far. It can copy oposing Mazes and Caverns. Can also copy your artifact lands.
CREATURES
1 Goblin Welder
1 Generator Servant
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Junk Diver
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Silent Arbiter
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
I feel there are only a few slots worth comenting here. Junk Diver substituted Myr Retriver because I never want to play Myr on turn 2 (so the extra mana is irrelevant) and I needed a flyer to chump block early in the game.
Silent Arbiter is bad, and should've been an Ensnaring Bridge. You can win through bridge with Inkmoth and Contagion Engine, with Myr Incubator or with Memory jar (drawing 7, punching, then discarding).
I didn't see Squee the whole tournament, but he would've been very good had he showed up. There were a few times I was holding only relevant spells (Wildfire, Jokulhaups, Scrap Mastery) and couldn't discard anything, making Daretti pretty bad).
Solemn Simulacrum is good, but I feel it should have been a Koth of the Hammer. Koth generates a lot of mana and is also an alternative win condition on its own. Simulacrum is good though, and maybe can find it's place alongside Koth.
Myr Battlesphere: I debated a long time if I should add this or Pentavus (and later, Triskelavus). I still don't know, but Battlesphere came in because it's the decks fastest clock, and because it generates tokens for free - which, as I said before, is VERY relevant.
MANA ROCKS
1 Mox Opal
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mox Diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Unstable Obelisk
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Basalt Monolith
All the 2 mana rocks felt great the whole day. Don't take them out. Powerstone is broken too, as is Basalt Monolith (I wouldn't advise trading it for Thran Dynamo). Mycosynth Wellspring is incredibly good here. It really exceded my expectations. The only card I was unimpressed was Mox Diamond. It never felt that good. Maybe it will come out for a Plague Myr, a Elsewhere Flask (although I still don't see why this is good, except after the ultimate) or Ruby Medallion - I realized that making it easier to cast 2 red spells in the same turn will likely make me more able to resolve a Daretti or a Scrap Mastery.
Unstable Obelisk may be "the worst of the good ones". It costing 3 almost always costs me a turn. his late game ability is very relevant, though, so I wouldn't trade it for now.
OTHER ARTIFACTS
OK, this is where it gets long and more conceptual. I have a few of slots I may change here. I'll start by saying what was very good and I wouldn't take out:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Defense Grid
1 Crystal Ball
1 Mana Web
1 Static Orb
1 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Smokestack
1 Mishra's Helix
1 Helm of Possession
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Coercive Portal
1 Memory Jar
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Spine of Ish Sah
Those are the cards I feel confortable with, my main Forgemaster targets and the cards I'd want to see every game. Choices that may seem odd here are Contagion Engine, Crystal Ball, Helm of Possession and Mana Web. Contagion Engine is excellent because it's a fetchable mass removal, along with a ramp for poison, Everflowing Chalice, Smokestack, Tangle Wire... and Daretti, of course.
Crystal Ball is substituting Lodestone Golem or Staff of Nin here. It felt massively good all day. Having the power to choose your draws here is very powerful. Could be coupled with Codex Shredder in the future for cuteness, but maybe this is too clunky. I'd advise testing the Ball though, it's incredible.
Mana Web feels very good against blue, not that good against aggro. Since it doesn't affect you, thought, I feel it has it's place even against aggro. But I'll mulligan this away if playing against more "sorcery speed based" decks. It plays very well with Mishra's Helix.
Helm of Possession may be the most underplayed artifact I know. It's incredible and can turn tides very quickly here. It may be better if I can find space for a Trading Post or a Myr Turbine here, though. There was 1 time where I had it but didn't have anything to sacrifice. (tip: Squee is great here too)
Now, my doubts reside in:
1 Tormod's Crypt
I know I need to pack graveyard hate, but 1-of seems bad. Either I'll add another one (like Phyrexian Furnace), or I'll take this out for a cantrip like Elsewhere Flask or Tsabo's Web and attack the reanimator matchup in another way. This latter feels better, since it's VERY unlikely I'll have Tormod's available on the right time and knowing that 1 Tormod's do not stop reanimator from doing what it does.
1 Clock of Omens
This card is great, but I never wanted to have it in play, except when I had Static Orb out. Maybe even a Icy Manipulator is better? I don't know... this also gives vigilance to your creatures, untaps Disk the turn it comes into play and adds a lot of mana with Powerstone or Monolith. I don't know... maybe this should be a Myr Turbine or a Witchbane Orb? Or a Tawnos's Coffin?
1 Ugin's Nexus
Another card I love but never wanted to play it during the whole tournament. This attacks specifically Maelstrom and Narset. Outside those matches, It feels clunky and I almost never want to have an extra turn. I don't know what to put in though...
1 Myr Incubator
I love this as a combo win condition, but it costs 6 mana to activate. On my Sygg match, this was a real issue. Had is costed less, I would've won that game. 6 is a lot and as I said before, this deck needs it's mana. It could become a Myr Turbine or a Triskelavus. Or even make room for the Bosh/Grafted Exoskeleton kill. The fact that it's a 1 turn clock is very tempting though. I'm leaving it in, but studying options.
1 Darksteel Forge
This is so amazing... but everytime I drew it (or worse, had it in my opening hand) if felt the worst thing ever. It only really shines if fetched by Forgemaster, in response to some removal. IT's a great answer to mass artifact removal or Aura Shards, for example, so it's also staying in for now. But do take note that it is clunky as hell.
RED REMOVAL
1 Chaos Warp
1 Shattering Spree
1 Dead/Gone
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Slagstorm
1 Sudden Demise
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Jokulhalps
1 Wildfire
1 Ruination
Loved all these cards. Now, I need another artifact removal, maybe even 2 more (Vandalblast, probably, then Ingot Chewer). Other changes could be Volcanic Fallout x Anger of the Gods; Dead/Gone vs Lightning Bolt, Flame Slash, Skred, etc; Sudden Demise/Bonfire vs Rolling Earthquake or Pyroclasm/Whipflare; Jokulhaups vs Destructive Force/Burning of Xinye/All is dust.
Even a Ratchet Bomb could come in here, helping against Needle and Gaddock - although Bomb on 2 is pretty bad for us to, because of mana rocks.
OTHER RED
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Gamble
1 Trash for Treasure
1 Scrap Mastery
I feel this should be untouched. All excellent, game defining cards. I wish I had more Faithless Lootings, but I still stand firm that Bazaar of Baghdad is not good here. Bazaar is card disadvantage, you do NOT want to do it every turn and it hinders your mana development. Also, I don't want another card that makes me not want to play Blood Moon.
And finally,
THINGS I WANT TO FIND ROOM FOR:
Steel Hellkite
Man... this isn't in for the sole factor that I don't want it to be stolen. Treachery, Bribery or anything like that on this guy is terrible. It could solve a lot of problems for us, but I hate to just lose to my own cards. The deck is more or less immune to this things as of now. Losing Battlesphere or Wurmcoil is bad, but you have ways to deal with them. Steel Hellkite is very hard and needs only to hit once to end the game for us.
Pentavus/Triskelavus/Thopter Assembly/Darksteel Gargoyle
These could fill the "flyer slot". I really need to address the flyer issue. It hasn't come up yet, but if I face something like Vendilion Clique, it's going to be a problem. Darksteel Gargoyle seem awesome, but the fact that is costs 7 makes it nearly unplayable. I mean, for 7 I want a bomb, not a 3/3 that should've been an early drop. If it costed 5, would be in.
Between Pentavus, Triskelavus and Thopter Assembly I'm pending to Pentavus. Assembly is slow and Triskelavus only makes 3 tokens, besides not killing himself to be reanimated again. It's hard to find a slot for Pentavus, though. I really prefer Myr Battlesphere over it, since is costs no mana to make tokens and beats a lot. Other pros of Battlesphere are the synergy with Incubator and Turbine (you can tutor for Battlesphere with Turbine eventually).
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
I was thinking Slobad could come in in Darksteel Forge's slot. It's faster and can deal with almost any issue Forge does. The only problem is that it's a creature, of course, and dies to my removal spells. But it could also be fetched by...
Goblin Matron + Goblin Replica/Tuktuk Scrapper
Goblin Matron could be a bad substitute for Imperial Recruiter. It can already get Squee or Goblin Welder, which is very relevant. If I add Slobad or one of these artifact removal goblins (probably Replica), it could be very good. I could even add a Cavern of Souls to chain goblins.
Mycosynth Lattice + Karn, Silver Golem
I tested Lattice extensively and got mixed feelings. on one side, it's brutal if coupled with Karn, Vandalblast or Disk + Darksteel Forge. It can also be very good with Kuldotha, Krark-Clan Ironworks, etc. So why isn't it in? First, it's only relevant when you have another piece of a combo already on the table. If you don't, it only makes you vulnerable to artifact hate. Second, it hurts the Blood Moon plan. I'm still thinking it could be good even then, since it's awesome if it comes in after a Scrap Mastery, and since Karn is good by itself. Maybe this could come in Myr Incubator slot.
Myr Turbine + Skullclamp
These cards doesn't need to come in together. Skullclamp is relevant on it's own, as is Myr Turbine. But I feel Clamp should only come in if I have a steady production of tokens, either with Turbine or Trading Post. Turbine if very good because it makes Battlesphere bigger and can even tutor it. Is isn't in mainly because of lack of slots, but I could see it substituting Ugin's Nexus or Myr Incubator, for example - since this costs no mana to activate and Incubator costs 6.
Jester's Mask
I'd love to have this colorless "Duress" in. It's something blue HAS to counter, or they won't be able to counter anything relevant for the rest of the game. The problem is that this isn't good on most non-blue matchups, so it's a very meta-oriented card.
Pyro/REB
I already said on the forum I would love to have both of these if I had Painter's Servant, Imperial Recruiter, Jaya Ballard and Citanul Flute in. That would make this awesome in every matchup. But after playing with the deck, I felt Pyro and REB could see play even without this. Most of the times I just needed to resolve 1 spell to put blue in a bad shape, so this could help. If Ruby Medallion comes in, this guys could be even better, since if would be easier to play 2 spells + Pyro on the same turn.
Lightning Bolt/Rolling Earthquake
I need more ways to deal with planeswalkers and early beats. These takes cares of flyers too Could be very relevant. I just don't know what to take out for now. Probably Dead/Gone, but I love that card so much I'm reluctant.
Destructive Force / Burning of Xinye / All is dust / Oblivion Stone / Keldon Firebombers
I'd love to have Destructive Force or Burning of X, it's a matter of slots. All is Dust could be good, but it kills Daretti, so I don't really like it. Oblivion Stone is nice but costs 5 to activate, 8 to play and activate, and I made my point about this earlier. Keldon Firebombers is awesome, but it doesn't hit creatures - he's good even then though. Had he been a goblin (to tutor with Matron) or had 2 power (to get with Recruiter) I'd play it. If I ever play Citanul Flute though, it's coming in.
Tsabo's Web
I love this tech. Didn't play it because I didn't own it. I'd really have to take Arcane Lighthouse out to make this happen, and probably Maze of Ith too. If I have a good plan for early beats, could even drop Factory, since I almost never attack with it.
Ruby Medallion / Elsewhere Flask
As I said, this could substitute Mox Diamond, which did nothing to me. Ruby Medallion is probably the best choice, since I don't see the appeal with Elsewhere Flask besides being good after the ultimate.
Koth of the Hammer
This should have been in, but I don't own one and couldn't find it in time. I'd play this in Solemn Simulacrum's slot. It ramps and kills planeswalkers with hasty Mountains.
Sandstone Needle/Dwarven Ruins
Could come in to substitute Arcane Lighthouse. I'm pending to Sandstone, because I can activate it twice.
Tawnos's Coffin
Great creature removal, can also do shenanigans with Sundering Titan, Myr Battlesphere, Duplicant and whatnot. Just need to 1- find a slot, 2- find a copy to buy.
That's it, guys. I really loved playing and developing the deck, got a few tips from this very forum and am looking forward to play more with this!
How bad is the control matchup for the deck? Specifically Narset. It seems like it's pretty tenuous - maybe 50/50 at best. Any tips on how to shore up the matchup or how to play it out?
The rest, even control matchups, seem fine. I'm not afraid of Vendilion since there's a TON of ways of getting rid of it or simply applying pressure enough to overcome their counters. Resolving Daretti is important, but other things like Wildfire and Scrap Mastery are crucial. Mana denial is strong, even against mono-colored decks.
So, to answer each one of you:
Control matchups are not that bad. Narset is really impressive, but if you manage to land something like a Trinisphere before she hits you can do a lot. Also, you always have good blockers for her. The other plan is mana denial, which works great against any 3-color-control deck. I've never had a problem. When I say that, I'm saying I don't think this is a bad matchup, but obviously you can lose if things get out of control. You have so many early threats to play that must be countered that I don't see how Narset or other control decks can deal with them except with awesome hands...
Although other players are saying otherwise here, Scrap Mastery is THE card that makes all this viable, since you only need 1 opening to win the game through it. It can really make you come back from a lost game.
And that is what's important to notice about Lodestone Golem and other sphere effects: they mostly hurt you more than him. The best way you can win against control is to resolve 2 spells per turn. Golem screws that up for you big time. Baiting with Daretti to resolve a Scrap Mastery or a Wildfire/Burning/Jokulhalps is what you want to do. Lodestone makes that cost 2 more. Also, this deck is slow. Making people pay 1 more for spells normally do not make a big impact on your prison plan because they can simply wait a few turns more - but that extra cost actually hinders your ability to be aggressive. You want bigger effects like Wildfire, Mishra's Helix, Smokestack or Tangle Wire instead of smaller ones like Lodestone Golem.
That's key. You CANNOT depend on resolving Daretti. You need early threats to be able to apply pressure/prison elements early, followed by Daretti or a bigger prison effect. Many times I've baited with Daretti only to resolve Smokestack or Tangle Wire and take the game from there.
Actually combo is harder to beat than control. This deck packs a lot of early effects that, if not answered, will take control's ability to counter spells away. You cannot keep a hand with expensive bombs against control (maybe you keep a Wildfire if you know you can ramp to it quickly). Resolving Daretti is awesome, but you can't keep a hand that depends on that against control, EVER. Daretti needs to be resolved sooner or later, but you need to apply early pressure first. Scrap Mastery is awesome here. I know, Clique can take games away by simply countering everything. I tought about playing 1 REB, 1 Pyroblast, Boseiju and even Cavern of Souls in order to resolve spells. You normally only need to resolve 1 or 2 spells to take the game away (Wildfire or Scrap Mastery, most likely) or even something like Helm of Possession or Staff of Nin. Actually, Staff of Nin is awesome to resolve against Clique.
If you worry too much about Wydwen or Vendilion, I'd suggest cutting Myr Battlesphere for Triskelavus, for example. Also, playing more early creature kills like Pyroclasm or Whipflare or Jaya Ballard
I've been meaning to add Jaya Ballard for a few days... maybe I can find room for her.
Bigger generals are easier to deal with, actually. They don't have Hexproof neither card advantage into them. An early Ensnaring Bridge, Forcefield or Maze can take care of that. Seriously, those guys do not make me afraid. Early flyers like Wydwen or Clique are much worse, as is Narset and her CA engine or Geist. Also, if your opponent is resolving 6 mana spells, either you're already losing or you're so far ahead you don't even care.
Clique really needs to counter EVERYTHING you play, which is possible, actually. If he doesn't, that one spell that slips through can take the game. I'd say it's 60/40 for us, maybe 50/50. Actually what makes me more afraid in Clique is Tunnel Vision...
Now, I already cut all cards that were in the "in doubt" section, except Myr Incubator. I still like being able to combo quickly. The other stuff became Burning of X, Rolling Earthquake and the likes. One think I added that is awesome is Cursed Totem. It's really, really good and destroys elfball almost by itself. It's also very good against Marath.
Now, I disagree with some of your comments on a few cards. Spine of Ish Sah is a must have for me. It destroys lands, enchantments and is very recursible. I can't count how many times this got me out of unwinnable situations. It's also one of the few ways you have to take out Rest in Peace and cards like that. If you have a better idea (I tested Lux Cannon and kinda liked it), let me know.
Scrap Mastery is NOT a win more. It's THE card that makes control be wary of never tapping out if you have 5 mana. If can win games by itself, even after he countered all you played so far. Do NOT underestimate this card, it's very important. I can't stress this enough.
Bonfire of the Damned was never meant to be played with the Miracle ability. It's there to take out small armies and planeswalkers, without hurting you and your Welders, Magus, etc. It's awesome. I could see you cutting it for Rolling Earthquake, which is probably better, but Bonfire isn't that bad. Now, I've taken out armies of elves without needing to kill my creatures, and that can simply win games.
Crystal Ball IS slow. But if can be very important for this deck to keep applying pressure. Drawing 3 lands in a row can be very bad. This helps a lot. That said, I've cut it for Cursed Totem. It's still one of the cards I want to find room again in the deck though.
Myr Incubator, as I said, is really very slow. I tried a few things in this slot, even Razormane Masticore, but I still like it's ability to simply win the game - or even generating fodder for Daretti or Smokestack. Maybe it could give room for Ugin one day? I don't know, I like having a "combo" win in the deck. It helps against decks like Narset or Maelstrom: sometimes they're just about to slip out of your lock and you get them with 20 1/1 Myrs.
Generator Servant I kinda agree. A mana rock is probably better (would probably be Guardian Idol), but I like that this gives haste to creatures. It can be a late trick with Kuldotha Forgemaster or something like that. I'll probably take it out for a mana rock though...
I mostly agree with you (I already said what I think about Bonfire and Scrap Mastery). But any matchup without counters seem very good for my deck. Being able to jam Daretti turn 3 without worries makes the game quite easier to handle. Taking small armies out is not a problem too. The only thing you should worry about is against VERY fast aggro decks, like Skythrix or, I dunno, Brimaz. You need a little time to stabilize, but you have a lot of possible answers.
The decks that haunt me are decks that can REALLY counter everything you throw at them (Clique does this sometimes) and combo decks like Reanimator. Reanimator is really a terrible matchup and if you see a lot of that in your area you should pack at least 2 grave hate cards. Torpor Orb, Tawnos's Coffin and Forcefield are also good cards that I want to find room for.
I haven't tested a lot against Marath, but I assume the matchup favor Daretti.
Maelstrom can go either way, but I'd assume we take it, since for them to get to 8 mana is very hard. Shattering Spree and Wildfire are awesome here.
Actually I'm not playing Silent Arbiter anymore, but Ensnaring Bridge in its place. And now that I actually got a Forcefield, I'm trying to find room for it too. Silent Arbiter is awesome against fast aggro, but against big guys he's terrible, and you need a slot to deal with big guys more than with little ones (they can be dealt easier with mass removal) or Wurmcoil Engine, etc. Also, Bridge can stop Narset, Geist and Kaalia completely, and Arbiter can't.
As I said in the OP, I cut Tormod's Crypt exactly because of that: since it's only 1 card, it can't be a reliable plan against reanimator. But I really tought the deck could handle reanimator more easily, because of Moon effects and mana denial. It can't. Mainly because of Ashen Rider. Anything else you are able deal with, but Ashen Rider can screw you up for good. I have no idea how to deal with him but a lucky Duplicant. I thought about Torpor Orb, which is good because it stops at least 1 of his exiles, thought about Grafdigger's Cage... Phyrexia's Core can help because you can sacrifice the targeted artifact in response so you don't lose it, but in general you're in bad shape if Rider hits the table. If followed by Iona, then forget it.
-1 Arcane Lighthouse
+1 Sandstone Needle
I really feel I have ways of handling Geist or Narset that doesn't depend on Lighthouse. Will change back if I'm wrong.
-1 Generator Servant
+1 Copper Gnomes
Generator Servant is good, but Copper Gnomes is another good way to hurt control early game. I'm still deciding if I really love Copper Gnomes since it's so situational an requires 4 mana to activate...
-1 Junk Diver
+1 Goblin Matron
Junk Diver wasn't doing anything and is only good with Daretti in play. Since I'm against relying on such cards, it goes out. Tutoring Welder, Squee and artifact removal is better. Wish I had an Imperial Recruiter though.
-1 Clock of Omens
+1 Goblin Replica
Completing the Goblin Matron package, a tutorable artifact removal. Could be Tuktuk Scrapper but for now I think being able to recur Goblin Replica is better, although slower.
-1 Silent Arbiter
+1 Ensnaring Bridge
Obvious change. Finally own a Bridge to put here. Bridge is awesome.
-1 Mox Diamond
+1 Ruby Medallion
Mox Diamond wasn't that great, Ruby Medallion allows me to overcome control by playing 2 spells per turn mid-game. It also allows Daretti turn 3, as any mana rock.
-1 Basalt Monolith
+1 Koth of the Hammer
Basalt was a nice ramp, but Koth can win games on his own. Late game, he can generate huges amount of mana - and is also a alternate wincon.
-1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Tsabo's Web
As I said, Crypt wasn't actually solving the reanimator matchup, so I thought I'd put a more generic prison element. Web replaces itself and can be quite annoying.
-1 Ugin's Nexus
+1 Staff of Nin
Staff of Nin is incredible. Can't believe I didn't play it. Actually, I was predicting more "Time Walk based" Narsets in my meta, that's why the Nexus. I was wrong, so it's out.
-1 Darksteel Forge
+1 Vandalblast
Forge is awesome, but pretty clunky. Took it out for another artifact removal. Vandalblast is also awesome if I ever decide to use Mycosynth Lattice.
-1 Volcanic Fallout
+1 Anger of the Gods
I don't care about uncounterability neither instant speed. Anger takes out Grand Arbiter and a lot of other annoying creatures Fallout doesn't.
I built a list that mixes your list from mtgtop8.com and the one by Julien Bachelier. I'll wait until I test the deck more in depth before I offer too many suggestions, but a few things I wanted to point out real quick are:
Sandstone Needle / Crystal Vein / etc type lands: I've always found these lands to be pretty bad. Using these up to play something right into a counter just sets you back way too far. You want lands that stick around turn after turn.
Stranglehold: I'm currently testing this and I have high hopes for it. This stops land ramp (which hurts us really bad if it gets out of hand), Reanimator searching for targets, Survival searching for answers to our artifacts, fetches, etc. It also stops Captain Sisay from searching for Teeg. All of that seems awesome, and you can bring this down on turn 3 pretty consistently.
Also, new banned list update! Daretti just leveled up! Now that Crucible is legal again, Expedition Map seems like it should come in. Winter Orb is an auto include, as is Top. And Entomb got banned, so the Reanimator match should be at least a little better now, too. Curious to hear your thoughts and where the deck is, currently.
Yeah, the banned list is going to make this list change. Crucible and Orb are must-include. I'd say Top is too, but Top is such a dumb unbanning... EVERY deck will have 1, because why wouldn't you?
Expedition Map I don't know... but Crucible makes Sandstone Needle and Crystal Vein better.
Crucible is specially good because once it's in play, you can discard any land to Daretti without regret. This probably makes me wanting Boseiju in the deck also. Gamble for Boseiju with Crucible in play.
Now, about your questions: the lands that make 2 mana are CRUCIAL for aggro matches. They make you consistenly drop Daretti turn 2-3 and that's very important against aggro. I believe these cards are what make the aggro matches so good for Daretti. Also, they help you slip things through counters early game. Defense Grid Turn 1 with Crystal Vein/City of Traitors, for example. Or Daretti/Blood Moon turn 2, before blue mage has 2 mana up. That said, you obviously need to watch your land count before you sacrifice this things. Knowing how to mulligan is essential.
About Stranglehold: I love the effect, but I think it's too slow. Against reanimator a 4 mana spell seems really slow. But it seems good against Survival and Sisay. What would you cut for it?
The card I wanted to test the most is Ward of Bones. I don't really like it on paper, but never saw it in action.
The list has changed a bit, but I haven't updated it here because I wanted to play a tournament and update it with results. Now I'm gonna have to change things a lot hahaha. I have a tournament on saturday and WILL be playing Winter Orb, Top and Crucible. (man, these things are SO gonna be banned again next announcement)
Do you have any input on card choices?
How's Myriad Landscape working for you? It seems way too slow for me. As I said before in this thread, Daretti needs open mana every turn. I wouldn't like to pay 3 to ramp (although I do that with Worn Powerstone, but that's an artifact, which is relevant). Also, like Wayfarer's Bauble, I don't like cards that take 2 turns to ramp in this deck.
I don't like Precursor Golem mainly because Repeal is a widely played card. Giving your opponent an Ancestral Recall is not that good. Batterskull seems way superior in that slot.
You're playing 3 graveyard hate slots. How's that working? Does it improve the reanimator matchup? Also, why no Tormod's Crypt? It seems at least better than Phyrexian Furnace, and cost no mana.
Also, about your choices of mana rocks: why no Ruby Medallion or Gilded Lotus? I mean, you have a lot of rocks that add colorless mana and that can really hinder your mana development. Also: Star Compass seems bad with all the land destruction we have.
Why are you playing Icy Manipulator if you have no Static Orb?
Don't play Mizzium Mortars, man. It's BAAAD. Bonfire of the Damned or Pyroclasm are better in that slot. Or, you know what? Contagion Engine.
Another question: how's all the 7 mana sweepers doing for you? I feel paying 7 mana is kinda hard, specially against control where you want to drop 2 spells/turn. I'll probably change my mind about this once I add Boseiju and Expedition Map to the list, though. But anyway I don't like All is Dust because it kills Daretti. I'd put Nevinyrral's Disk in that slot.
EDIT: You're not playing Magus of the Moon??? You NEED that. Now!
And about your maybeboard: Commune with Lava seems terrible. you don't want to leave mana open to cast this end of your opponent's turn, and you don't want to cast it during your turn. We're playing 7 mana spells, man. No, no!
Grafdigger's Cage is bad because you can't sacrifice it to Daretti to return a creature at the same time. If you could do that, then it would be awesome.
And, if you want to play a Masticore, you should play Razormane Masticore, because it doesn't waste your mana.
I doubted Ruby Medallion too in the beginning, but the fact that once you want o play 2 spells a turn it generates 2 mana is awesome. Makes Daretti turn 3 viable (as any other rock) but against control you can play a bait spell and then resolve Daretti the same turn (or bait with Daretti to resolve Scrap Mastery).
I feel Icy Manipulator is too expensive too warrant a slot without any extra functionality.
I'd play Tormod's over Relic of Progenitus every time, actually. Removing my own graveyard is not that big of a deal, but that's not something you actually want to do. Let your opponent waste resources.
Myriad Landscape and Wayfarer's Bauble are too slow for my build, maybe they're good for yours. I have a lot of lands that enter tapped. So leading with a Dwarven Ruins feels much worse if I have a Wayfarer's Bauble in hand. And Landscape feels too slow. Costs 3 mana and 2 turns to ramp. I tried it but came with Sandstone Needle in it's place.
EDIT: Also, Precursor Golem is terrible with Wildfire, etc.
The same is true for Phyrexian Processor: needing to pay 4 is too much for me. If I ever wanted an effect like this I'd rather have Myr Incubator again since it wins immediately.
Moltensteel Dragon seems like an awesome beater. I didn't know this card. I wonder what to cut for it... my list has little place for creatures that do nothing but beat the opponents face. I'd say Batterskull and Steel Hellkite do a lot more than this. Also, I don't mind having my kill conditions cost more, since early game you want to deploy prison elements and Daretti. So this costing 4 vs Wurmcoil Engine at 7 and Myr Battlesphere at 7 is no big deal. That said, I'm tempted to try this out, since he is a flyer and pumps for no mana.
I'm considering Icy Manipulator again, since I run Static Orb. I know Manipulator holds on his own and is a lock piece, but the interaction with Orb is game breaking.
@Gao Qiu said well about the others, so I'll leave it at that.
Orb works with a tap engine (such as Opposition or Icy Manipulator). You hinder an opponent's board and then tap the Orb on their end step, and then all of your cards untap. This was because back in the day, "tapping a noncreature artifact turns it off" (this is why Howling Mine is worded as it is). Winter Orb was never printed with the clause as it wasn't printed after 5th Ed (so it's a bit ambiguous as to whether or not it works with tap effects, although Oracle text suggests it doesn't).
If you play enough of these artifacts then Blinkmoth Well may be worth considering.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
About Static Orb, I normally play it to earn a few turn against any deck or to slow swarm beatdown. It they're full tapped or their creatures attacked last turn, it holds them off a lot. If Daretti is in play, then you get a lot of activations with him in the meantime. Coupled with Tangle Wire, it can earn you a lot of turns. Anyway, I played Static Orb even without Manipulator or Well, since it does the job alone. But yes, you need to be VERY wary of playing it. It won me many games though - and it was one of the reason I decided to add Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus to the deck.
About Memory Jar: activating it against reanimator is a judgement call. The fact that you draw a LOT of cards and they don't is awesome by itself. Normally, if I have enough mana, activating Jar is GG, since my board presence heightens tremendously. Also, if you're playing 2-3 gy hate cards, then the chance of hitting one of them with Jar is big. And, if you really want to dig, you can activated Jar, Daretti it in again and activate again to look at 14 cards. I can't stress enough how awesome Jar is.
EDIT: but that's a reason why I don't play Wheel of Fortune or similar effects. I want to have a Draw 7 with all my mana available. Wheel costs 3, and that alone hinders you draw. Also, the opponent has to discard his new hand so outside reanimator he pretty much draws nothing. And Jar can be reanimated by Daretti, so it's all good.
Anyway, this post is going to be long, so I'll tell what's gonna be: first I'll write a small report of today's tournament, and then I'm gonna post my list and comment changes and card choices.
ROUND 1: Braids, Cabal Minion
So, I was at the same time scared and happy to face Braids. Scared because I know how dreadful it can be, but calm because I've been brewing Braids myself this week and know exactly how to tackle the matchup.
So game 1 I do a pretty ballsy thing (I'm proud of it, if you can tell hahaha). I kept a 6-card hand that had only lands. Yeah, that's right. It proved to be quite good after he Duressed me turn 1 and found nothing to discard. I kept evolving my board as he didn't drop an early Braids. Daretti hit the table and started cycling lands into relevant stuff. He had a Nihil Spellbomb in play so I was extra careful to not discard relevant stuff but to bait with enough juicy things for him to need to blow it up. He ven managed to clean my graveyard twice with a Bojuka Bog. But Daretti kept drawing me permanents and the Braids race was lost for him. After I ultimated Daretti and dropped a Wurmcoil Engine on the table, he conceded.
Game 2 he dropped Sphere of Resistance turn 2 and I followed with Ruby Medallion, dropping a Crucible of Worlds next turn. He followed with a Lodestone Golem and I was soon stuck on 5 lands, sacrificing one to Braids every turn and bringing it back. One of my lands was Maze of Ith (which produced mana because he had an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth out), which helped me endure a few turns of Braids beatdown. But I kept drawing 4-5 mana cards, not able to play them. The crucial mistake I made was to think Urborg was still on the table and bring Maze back instead of a mountain, so I didn't have the mana to play the outs I drew into. He soon followed with a Phyrexian Totem which proved too much for me. It's funny how drawing a 2 mana land would have won me the game since I had Wildfire in hand...
Game 3 I started playing and boy, did that help. I had a fast hand that dropped Daretti turn 3, which made a Myr Battlesphere turn 4, for which he promptly conceded. I think he was hasty to do that, but he said he had no outs for a token producer of that size.
2-1
ROUND 2: Ghave, Guru of Spores
I can't say winning this match proves anything for the deck, since my opponent was clearly on a budget build. I won game 1 with a Wildfire that cleaned his table and left him with 3 lands and me with a full table. Game 2 I kept a Magus of the Moon in my hand, in spite of seeing mostly basic lands game 1. That proved correct, since his first 4 land drops were non-basic. When he finally got colored mana, it was way too late for him to crawl back to the game. It's funny how an aggro deck that isn't tuned enough can't even begin to threat this deck.
2-0
ROUND 3: Kaalia of the Vast
I was scared of this match. Kaalia is a very powerful general and normally 1 attack phase is enough to destroy this deck completely. I'm mostly afraid of Ashen Rider, as in reanimator. Also, I was scared that my plan to take out Volcanic Fallout and Dead//Gone before the tournament would bite me. Both cards deal with Kaalia quite well, so I felt underprepared for the match.
Game 1 I play something relevant turn 2 (I don't remember what) followed by a Magus of the Moon turn 3. He was completely taken back by this, since he fetched the first 2 turns for duals and had only fetches in hand. That alone earned me a lot of free turns, where I slowly developed my table with Smokestack, Tangle Wire and things like that. He managed to find a topdecked Dismember to take Magus out, but it was way too late then. The game ended with him having Dark Confidant and Stoneforge Mystic in play, and me topdecking a Ugin, the Spirit Dragon to clean his table. I don't even think he could've won if I didn't draw Ugin since my hand was Anger of the Gods and Phyrexian Revoker (so I could Anger to take out the dudes and then Revoke the Lightning Greaves). I also had a Koth of the Hammer in play with 5 counters, so I could ultimate him to kill with mountains.
Funny how he managed to play Nevermore naming Daretti and my draws were so tight I didn't even need Daretti to win the game with no trouble. I loved that game, since I designed the deck exactly to play it's gameplan despite not having the commander. Happy it works!
Game 2 well... what can I say? He did what he's supposed to do. The main play he did that turned the game around was a Chrome Mox turn 3, which allowed him to drop Ajani Vengeant turn 3 and keep me always 1 mana away from Wildfire (again). Man, if I had 1 more mana that game I'd have destroyed his life hahaha. Anyway, he dropped Kaalia next turn, attacked the other turn putting Rune-Scarred Demon into play and I conceded once I drew into nothing - knowing I'd be comboed out next turn. Man... all I could think was Dead/Gone and Volcanic Fallout...
Game 3 I did mysecond ballsy play of the day, which I'm proud of. I had a hand with Crystal Vein, Dwarven Ruins, Thran Dynamo, Ensnaring Bridge, Tangle Wire, Shattering Spree and Mountain so I felt pretty confident. Spree is awesome to kill early rocks and Lightning Greaves. Also, both 2-mana-lands told me I could be quick enough to deploy my game plan. My only fear was a turn 1 Duress/Thoughtseize, which luckly didn't happen. By the way, the card I feared the most during the whole tournament but never got played against me was Hymn to Tourach. Man, I had so many hands that could be screwed by a turn 2 Hymn...
Anyway, I played Dwarven Ruins and passed. He played mana go. I then decided on my turn that having Ensnaring Bridge on the table was way too important to have wait another turn. I could then play and sac Crystal Vein to have 3, but that would set me way back. So I decided the way to go was sac both lands to drop Thran Dynamo and use Dynamo to play Bridge, leaving my table with only Bridge and Dynamo in play (that was the ballsy play... I don't know how many player would have dumped both lands like that, but maybe I'm giving this play more credit than it deserves).
He played a second turn Night's Whisper and I followed with turn 3 Tangle Wire. Daretti soon followed coupled with a Worn Powerstone, Crucible of Worlds and the awesome Winter Orb. Winter Orb hindered him so much that you have no idea how much is won this game almost alone. Not alone because I had Dynamo and Powerstone on my side to make my side untap more.
He tutored for what I learned later was a Council's Judgment to try and take out Orb, but it was too late. I had Memory Jar in play and hit it, drawing Wurmcoil Engine, Batterskull, Burning of Xinye, Gamble, Shattering Spree and 2 lands. I played the land and, having 8 mana available, went into the think tank. He had just tutored and my reasoning was he could've searched for a Reanimate, knowing he would discard to Memory Jar and planning ahead. So after much consideration and thinking about that probable plan, I decided to Gamble for Karn Liberated. If he discarded Karn, I could Wildfire, leaving him with 1 land and hoping his reanimated creature wouldn't screw me. If he discarded anything else, Karn would be there for me later. I played Karn and won next turn.
Thinking in retrospect, I guess the right play would be to play Burning of X first and then Gamble for Wasteland, leaving him with no mana. But it worked out anyway
2-1
So, I'm pretty happy with how the deck played out and how the new unbannings worked wonderfully. Hope you guys enjoy this small report.
ps: I'll post the decklist and analysis later, but just out of curiosity, my additions this week after ban list were Crucible of Worlds, Winter Orb, Expedition Map and Boseiju, who shelters all.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
So, to the decklist. I made a lot of small changes to get from the version 1 of the deck (on the OP) to this one, but here I'll just consider everything as a big batch of changes.
First, the list:
23 Mountain
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Great Furnace
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Arcane Lighthouse
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Batterskull
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Sundering Titan
1 Karn Liberated
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mind Stone
1 Prismatic Lens
1 Ruby Medallion
1 Fire Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Expedition Map
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cursed Totem
1 Torpor Orb
1 Tsabo's Web
1 Defense Grid
1 Winter Orb
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crystal Ball
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Static Orb
1 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
1 Smokestack
1 Coercive Portal
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Mishra's Helix
1 Memory Jar
1 Staff of Nin
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Pyroblast
1 Chaos Warp
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
1 Sudden Demise
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Ruination
1 Wildfire
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Jokulhaups
1 Shattering Spree
1 Aftershock
1 Faithless Looting
1 Tormenting Voice
1 Wild Guess
1 Gamble
1 Scrap Mastery
Now the changes and explanation:
-Phyrexia's Core
-Vesuva
+Dwarven Ruins
+Boseiju, Who Shelters All
+Sandstone Needle
I felt I needed more lands that produced red. Also, these utility lands were doing very little for me. I feel Phyrexia's Core x Arcane Lighthouse or even a Mountain is a meta call. If you're not supposed to face Geist/Narset, you can take Lighthouse out.
-Generator Servant
+Torpor Orb
Servant was OK, I guess. But I needed the extra lock piece. Torpor Orb, though, is also a meta call. Can be graveyard hate if your meta has that. In my meta Torpor Orb is more relevant.
-Squee, Goblin Nabob
+Red Elemental Blast
I love Squee but felt most of the time I didn't need it. My reasoning here is that if I'm playing non-blue I'd discard REB anyway. And if I'm playing blue REB is much better. I was against this plan earlier, but after extensive testing I feel REB + Pyro + Boseiju + Expedition Map is extremely strong to help you deal with annoying things like Geist.
-Dead/Gone
+Pyroblast
This was the slot I found to jam Pyroblast in but man, do I miss Dead/Gone... I'm really looking for a slot for it right now. I wouldn't take Pyroblast out though, since it's been proving itself more and more.
-Volcanic Fallout
+Anger of the Gods
I also want to find room for Volcanic Fallout again. It's really good against Geist, Braids, Narset and Kaalia. I wonder what I can take out. This and Dead/Gone are the cards I want back in soon. I want Anger though, because dealing 3 damage is pretty relevant. Exiling the cards is also good against things like Karador. Not super relevant, but helps.
-Bonfire of the Damned
+Burning of Xinye
Didn't own Burning of X. This has been great, wouldn't go back ever. Having 2 Wildfires is so awesome I even consider playing Destructive Force. But if I ever wanted to do that I'd probably go for Devastation first - although I don't own one yet.
-Junk Diver
+Rolling Earthquake
Junk Diver seems good but it's junk. It was one of the first things I cut. I said it earlier in this thread, but things that only work well with Daretti in play are a no-no on my list. My match this week against Kaalia proved me right
Also, Rolling Earthquake kills planeswalkers. I didn't have it in the list because I didn't own one.
-Trash for Treasure
+Crucible of Worlds
I love Trash for Treasure, since it gives you a lot of room to do stuff without Daretti. That said, this deck is shaping more and more to be an early control deck and mid-late reanimator. There are a lot of times Trash would sit in my hand for several turns and I always hated drawing it early game. Crucible, on the other side, is just awesome. Helps against control by returning Boseiju if they ever destroy it, recurs Wasteland and works very well with Wildfire and against Braids and Armageddon.
-Darksteel Forge
+Aftershock
I originally cut Forge for Vandalblast. Now I'm playing Aftershock and loving it. Against Braids this week I used it to take a Crystal Vein out early and hinder his mana development to a point I could take over the game. Vandalblast is awesome, but I don't like having to many narrow cards in the deck. Aftershock's versatility earns points with me.
-Silent Arbiter
+Ensnaring Bridge
Covered this earlier. Bridge is awesome, Arbiter is not. Period. I didn't have it in the deck because I didn't own one.
-Mox Diamond
-Mox Opal
+Ruby Medallion
+Prismatic Lens
The moxes always failed on me. The mana rocks always make me happy as Daretti turn 3 becomes online. Funny how Ruby Medallion seems subpar but it's actually pretty nice. There are times though I with it actually added mana (happened this week) so maybe I'll try another rock there. Have to think which one, since I'd probably want one that comes into play untapped.
-Solemn Simulacrum
+Thran Dynamo
One "big mana rock" for another. Never looked back. Thran Dynamo makes playing Ugin, Karn and Wildfire so much easier. It also shines now that Winter Orb is back.
-Unstable Obelisk
+Gilded Lotus
Cutting Obelisk hurt, but only on paper. Having another spot removal would be good, but it costs too much. Now that we have Ugin, Obelisk doesn't feel that important anymore. Gilded Lotus, on the other hand, is an awesome early reanimate. Coupled with Dynamo I've been very happy with all that mana. I use Daretti's -2 a lot to bring this guys to play.
-Basalt Monolith
+Koth of the Hammer
Basalt was OK, but slow. Koth wins games by himself. The only lame thing is that he can't protect himself. This week, though, he did so much for me... his -2 is incredible. Love him.
-Tormod's Crypt
+Tsabo's Web
Another meta slot. I love Tsabo's Web, but in my meta it's really not shining that much. If it's just for the cycling, maybe Phyrexian Furnace or Scrabbling Claws could be better in that slot. I guess I'd only change this if I had a graveyard package coming in. Having just 1 is too few.
-Mana Web
+Winter Orb
Mana Web didn't work well against aggro, just against counters. Winter Orb wrecks everyone. Man, how I love Winter Orb. Been wanting to pick an alpha/beta one for so long now...
-Ichor Wellspring
+Expedition Map
Ichor Wellspring was always subpar for me. Yeah it draws cards but... meh. Expedition Map, finding that Wasteland/Boseiju at the right time, is incredible though. With Crucible now available, it's a must have.
-Clock of Omens
+Cursed Totem
I will never ever cut Cursed Totem. I don't even know why I didn't have it on my initial list. It's SO good. Stops elfball by itself, and cuts of a lot of relevant creatures. Our deck only suffers in Goblin Welder and Kuldotha Forgemaster, both of which you can activate at the right time by taking Totem out with Daretti.
-Helm of Possession
+Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Helm became Tawnos's Coffin once I started reducing creatures on the deck. I then realized the 3 mana Coffin requires is, as I always said, too much for me. Ugin is so powerful, so powerful, specially with Dynamo and Gilded Lotus, that man, I don't even need spot removal anymore. Seriously, I once kept a hand that had mana, Thran Dynamo a Volc Fallout and an Ugin against Narset. A friend of mine said to me: "Are you keeping that Ugin? That's terrible?". Wouldn't you guess that he alone won that match? (tip: most of the time you need something broken in your hand. A lot of the time you have the means to play something big but have nothing at your disposal)
-Ugin's Nexus
+Staff of Nin
Another change I'd never undo. Staff is awesome. Ugin's Nexus hurts so few decks that I don't even want to list them. It also only works with Daretti in play, which as I said several times, is bad.
-Myr Incubator
+Batterskull
This is an open slot. I like Incubator alot, but 6 mana is harsh. That said, it's 6 mana that wins you the game on the spot. I think this is the slot for the "dumb beater" we talked about here. It can be anything to your liking: Steel Hellkite, Triskelavus, etc. I like Batterskull because of the lifelink. It IS relevant. This could also become an Icy Manipulator if needed, but I think I'd rather have Batterskull.
I'm really happy with this list and feel it's VERY strong. Winter Orb and Crucible of Worlds made the deck a lot better. I'll probably try to make room for Icy Manipulator, since as people pointed out here, it's good to lock mana and to tap things like Kaalia.
Also, I think I should point out why I prefer Crystal Ball over Sensei's Divining Top: Daretti has no way to shuffle and even if I could arrange my top 3 to draw the best 2 with Daretti, what I need is relevant draws. Every time I see Crystal Ball, I'm happy. If that was a Top, I'd be worried I wouldn't find answers with it. Also, people tend to think Crystal Ball is harmless and leave it in play, which is great
EDIT:
Cards I want to try out:
Lodestone Golem, Sphere of Resistance, Chalice of the Void, Thorn of Amethyst
I feel after Crucible, and with Dynamo/Lotus, I can once again start playing these tax cards. I will try them soon.
Sphere of the Suns, Fractured Powerstone
Test one of them instead of Ruby Medallion.
Devastation
If I ever find a slot for another mass removal, this is it.
Volcanic Vision
I wonder if this can be any good here. Probably not, right?
Ward of Bones
I've seen this card in Top 8 lists on the net. Never tested it. It seems not that good, but maybe it's one of those gems you gotta play to understand.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
In a deck like this, I believe Divining Top is invaluable to your plan (and can be played alongside Crystal Ball as it's unlikely you see both in a game (and if you do, one makes excellent Daretti fodder). You're right it's bad without shuffles, and there are decks I wouldn't touch it (something like my Zurgo AiR build, where I'm focused on damage now, damage asap) where Top is a bad mana sink because it doesn't provide extra damage. Anyway, that's a cornercase, and it's not what your deck is doing.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Here's the list I'm currently running and some commentary:
01 Daretti, Scrap Savant
Land (36)
01 Arid Mesa
01 Bloodstained Mire
01 Darksteel Citadel
01 Inkmonth Nexus
01 Mishra's Factory
01 Rishadan Port
01 Scalding Tarn
27 Snow-Covered Mountain
01 Wasteland
01 Wooded Foothills
Planeswalkers (03)
01 Karn Liberated
01 Koth of the Hammer
01 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures (09)
01 Duplicant
01 Goblin Welder
01 Magus of the Moon
01 Myr Battlesphere
01 Pilgrim's Eye
01 Solemn Simulacrum
01 Squee, Goblin Nabob
01 Sundering Titan
01 Wurmcoil Engine
Enchantment (02)
01 Blood Moon
01 Stranglehold
01 Chaos Warp
01 Dead // Gone
01 Red Elemental Blast
Sorceries (17)
01 All is Dust
01 Anger of the Gods
01 Burning of Xinye
01 Faithless Looting
01 Flamebreak
01 Gamble
01 Mizzium Mortars
01 Pyroclasm
01 Rolling Earthquake
01 Ruination
01 Shattering Spree
01 Slagstorm
01 Sudden Demise
01 Tormenting Voice
01 Whipflare
01 Wild Guess
01 Wildfire
Artifacts (29)
01 Everflowing Chalice
01 Mox Opal
01 Pithing Needle
01 Sensei's Divining Top
01 Wayfarer's Bauble
01 Cursed Totem
01 Defense Grid
01 Fellwar Stone
01 Fire Diamond
01 Fractured Powerstone
01 Ichor Wellspring
01 Mind Stone
01 Mycosynth Wellspring
01 Prismatic Lens
01 Tsabo's Web
01 Winter Orb
01 Crucible of Worlds
01 Ensnaring Bridge
01 Mana Web
01 Tangle Wire
01 Worn Powerstone
01 Coercive Portal
01 Thran Dynamo
01 Memory Jar
01 Mishra's Helix
01 Mindslaver
01 Staff of Nin
01 Ward of Bones
Cut most of the utility lands down to just bare essentials. Tsabo's Web is less of a liability now that most of the lands I run won't be affected. Added fetches, which goes well with Crucible, Top, and Koth of the Hammer. Might run Myriad Landscape later, but the manabase feels strong right now. I've played all the major Mishra's Workshop decks in Vintage, and I can tell you that without lands that produce a lot of mana, cards like Sphere of Resistance are really bad (the exception to this would be GAAIV, maaaybe). Especially with the sac lands. Lands coming in tapped are bad. Sacrificing your lands to get big spells out sooner, only to be countered or destroyed, is something a mono red deck can rarely recover from.
Ruby Medallion is not good, trust me. It only works with 15 cards in your deck, including Daretti (16 if you count the flashback for Looting). Take this out for another rock, like Prismatic Lens.
I'm also not running stuff like Forgemaster, Nev's Disk, or Scrap Mastery. These are either too slow or conditional. This deck is the closest thing EDH has to Stax, which means you must be constantly denying them resources or gaining some kind of card advantage. I once heard Stax decks being compared to a boa constrictor, squeezing you slowly turn after turn until it's too late. That's what I'm trying to accomplish here. On that note, also not running Jokulhaups, because it kills all our artifacts. If I were to run another big sweeper, it'd be Devastation.
Some of my other unorthodox choices:
Ward of Bones & Stranglehold - These haven't had a chance to shine, yet, but I have a lot of hope for them.
Cursed Totem - This card is fantastic and a complete staple for the deck. The only creature it affects is Welder, so this probably won't be an issue that often.
Mana Web - Another great card, especially against control. Now this is even better with Winter Orb.
Mox Opal - My artifact count isn't as high as some of the other lists mentioned here, but I still think Opal has a place in the deck. Most of the time it will produce mana, and if not, it's a free artifact I can weld out with Daretti. This is good because you usually have to weld out your mana rocks, so you get to keep those instead. I may change my mind on this later but I'm happy with it for now.
Also, I'm not running any grave hate. I want to get my matchups against the majority of decks understood and solid before I start specializing. I think Moondust has the right idea with the 3 Furnaces he's running.
- Expedition Map
- Myriad Landscape
- Devastation
- Galvanic Blast
- Uba Mask
Anyway, how's the deck doing for you, mutedequilibrium? I wanted to comment card choices more thoroughly so I did a comparison between our decklists. Did you use my original decklist as a base for yours? I'd feel honored if you did.
LANDS
IN
4 Mountains
4 fetches
OUT
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Maze of Ith
1 Great Furnace
1 Dwarven Ruins
1 City of Traitors
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sandstone Needle
1 Tectonic Edge
I don't understand why you don't like these lands. I'd probably be willing to take out Inkmoth and Factory before any of these. You don't play Expedition Map (which I'll discuss later) so Boseiju/Maze are probably worse in your list. Great Furnace is debatable too. It could be that a basic Mountain or a fetch are better. But man, do I like to resolve Daretti and have something to sac immediately without taking any of my lock pieces out. Furnace plays an important role to maintain early control.
About the 2 mana lands, I really, really can't understand why you wouldn't run them. They're AMAZING and make aggro matches much easier. I'd NEVER have won that match against Kaalia if it wasn't for these lands. Also, City of Traitors is so amazing I can't even... Many times I have dropped Magus/Blood Moon turn 2 with City, only to have it not sacrificed later turns because now it's a mountain.
Most importantly, these 4 cards make you able to shift roles. Choosing correctly if you want to be the beatdown or not is crucial to win with Daretti, and without this lands it's impossible.
About fetches, I haven't tested them yet, but I'd say they do 2 things badly here. First they're not that great for Top if you have a Blood Moon down. Second they give your opponent an early land disruption if he's playing Stifle/Trickbind. This deck has so little effects that he wants to counter that taking out a land may be much more relevant. I'd say if I'm playing vs Clique or Geist and he Stifles my fetch, it's game over. Third, they thin out lands on your deck, which is bad if you want to reset the table and race your opponent in land drops.
Also, why Snow-Covered Mountains? Just because? I'd advise against it since Braids is back and they probably play Icequake. I mean, you can play Skred or Glacial Crevasses if you want
Also:
Rishadan Port vs Arcane Lighthouse
I would trade Arcane Lighthouse for Rishadan Port if I had one, it's clearly a better card.
Sensei's Divining top vs Crystal Ball
I have my doubts about Top. And I love Crystal Ball. Maybe this comes to play style. As I said, I'll try and run the fetches plan, but I don't think it works that well in theory.
REMOVAL/GLOBALS
Dead // Gone
Flamebreak
Mizzium Mortars
Pyroclasm
Whipflare
OUT
Pyroblast
Aftershock
Nevinyrral's Disk
Contagion Engine
Spine of Ish Sah
Pyroblast vs Dead // Gone is a judgment call, I guess. Maybe meta dependant. Since you're not playing Expedition Map or Boseiju, I'd say Pyro is better. You really want to resolve a few key spells (mostly Wildfire, etc) against hard control.
I hate Flamebreak, since it doesn't hit one of the main problems of the deck: early flyers. You need your removal to take out flyers (this is why you play Rolling Earthquake and not Earthquake, for example). Also hitting RRR in my deck is quite prohibitive. Aftershock plays a much broader role than this and is an easy swap for me. I'd also play Volcanic Fallout before it.
I also don't like Pyroclasm or Whipflare, since I think 3 thoughness creatures are very hard to deal with. You dismiss Nevinyrral's Disk, but together with Spine of Ish-Sah they play an important role in taking out enchantments. There are a lot of enchantments you need to take care of. Disk is awesome also because if leaves Daretti alone.
Contagion Engine vs Mizzium Mortars is play style. I can understand why you'd want Mortars and maybe it's a better card overall - although if I'm trying to find room for Dead/Gone I'd probably use it before Mortars.
All is Dust vs Jokulhaups
I have no idea why you prefer All is Dust. Is it because of indestructible/regeneration? Did you ever find that to be a problem? I mean, the only thing I can think of is Thrun, the Last Troll. The opponent having artifact creatures or relevant artifact creatures seem to me much more probable, making All is Dust worse.
My problem with All is Dust is that it takes Daretti out. I won so many games by playing Jokulhaups or Wildfire and leaving only Daretti on the table. Also, All is Dust doesn't destroy lands, which is for me pretty important.
Ward of Bones vs Smokestack
You need Smokestack, man. If you ever played MUD in Vintage back in the day you know what it is. It won me many games singlehanded. If you're worried that Ward of Bones or Stranglehold aren't doing what they should, take one out and put STAX in. It's awesome (and one of the reasons I love Contagion Engine)
MANA ROCKS
Wayfarer's Bauble vs Expedition Map
Both cost the same to play and activate. Man, I feel Map is SO much better. But that's because I use utility lands, right? In your deck Bauble if obviously the right choice. Now, why don't you use utility lands again?
Solemn Simulacrum vs Gilded Lotus
I kinda understand your take here, and I was there too in the early days with the deck, but man, does Lotus warrant it's maindeck position... it makes playing awesome stuff like Ugin and Karn much easier. Can also be "welded in" for extra mana. You tap a mana rock, -2 Daretti and bring this in.
Fractured Powerstone vs Ruby Medallion
You're probably right on this one. I'll trade Medallion for Powerstone, since I think it's better than Fellwar Stone or Mox Opal. But Sphere of the Suns may be even better, but I'm not sure.
LOCK PIECES
I haven't thought about Mana Web together with Winter Orb, which seems amazing and makes Mana Web relevant in non-blue matchups. My problem with mana Web is that against non-blue decks it just sits there doing nothing. After I came up with the Pyro/RED/Boseiju/Map plan, I feel I don't need this anymore and things like Static Orb and Trinisphere do more to hurt blue than Mana Web. How's it been working for you?
I find Static Orb relevant against aggro since it holds their swarm back. I wouldn't take it out. But Trinisphere may be cut. Stranglehold seems good against Maelstrom and Narset, so maybe that helps. The problem with it is that it's an enchantment and can't be recurred. But yeah, maybe I'll try it instead of Trini.
UNRELATED CARDS
I divided these cards in what I think are relatable slots. But they're tradable, I just wanted to compare things I'd cut for another similar thing.
The cards are:
Fellwar Stone
Ichor Wellspring
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Mox Opal
Pilgrim's Eye
vs
Torpor Orb
Phyrexian Revoker
Scrap Mastery
Batterskull
Kuldotha Forgemaster
I'll chose what I think are the right options, but well, we can discuss that.
Fellwar Stone/Ichor Wellspring vs Torpor Orb/Phyrexian Revoker
I'm taking 2 two-mana cards and comparing them to another 2 mana cards. I don't miss another mana rock, and Fellwar Stone is pretty bad in my opinion, since if you go for Jokulhaups/Wildfire it may be useless. Sphere of the Suns may be better. Also, Ichor Wellspring is disappointing, specially when you compare it with Torpor Orb/Revoker. Revoker hurts planeswalkers, which is HUGE and I'd probably never take it out.
Torpor Orb is a very cuttable slot, but I'd rather have it than any of these 2. Maybe I'd cut it for graveyard hate, which seems more relevant to me.
Squee, Goblin Nabob/Mox Opal/Pilgrim's Eye vs Scrap Mastery/Batterskull/Kuldotha Forgemaster
This cards are completely unrelated and were the leftovers once I tried to pair the whole rest. So I'll say that after I cut Squee, I never looked back. It only works with Daretti out and is a TERRIBLE topdeck late game. Yeah, you can Gamble for him early game to gain card advantage in the long run, but I'd much rather Gamble for something relevant.
Mox Opal feels terrible accelerating my plan. The common play of 3rd turn Daretti is improved by nothing with it. I'd trade this for any mana rock or even for City of Traitors if you want.
Pilgrim's Eye is OK, I have nothing bad to say about it. But wouldn't you rather have Basalt Monolith? I feel both are too slow though.
I believe Scrap Mastery, Batterskull and Kuldotha are all fragile slots and can be taken out easily. That said, Batterskull helps a lot against fast aggro and can be recurred even without Daretti if the just kill the Germ. Kuldotha has been an in and out card for me. Sometimes I take it out. But it's good that it can win the game alone against a lot of decks. Being able to fetch Contagion Engine against aggro or elfball, Winter Orb, Spine of Ish Sah and Myr Battlesphere is incredible. Not even mentioning the game-breaking Mindslaver. It IS slow, and as I said can become anything else you think you need (I'll probably cut it for Devastation)
Now, Scrap Mastery I love. I know you think it's situational, and it is, in a sense, but it turns games around. It can kill opponents artifacts that are hurting you (Null Rod, for example) and has another two VERY important roles: it's my insurance against mass artifact removal like Bane of Progress and a lot of stuff like that, which makes me not scoop to things like that (or even fear them that much); and, most of all, it makes all the counters you opponent wasted on your lock pieces irrelevant. I've won a few games agains hard control by playing into their counters and winning through a resolving Mastery. I understand it's a slot that can go, but my experience with it has been so good I won't take it out soon.
CARDS YOU WANT TO ADD
Galvanic Blast is worse than Mizzium Mortars as early creature removal. I don't really like Metalcraft here, since we have a lot of non-artifact cards. Also, you need Great Furnace for them to work, so if you keep Mox Opal or add this, be sure to add Furnace too.
Myriad Landscape is not terrible, but incredibly slow. ANY 2 mana land is better than it, in my opinion.
Sorry about the enormous post.
About Boseiju, against aggro you just don't play it. It works pretty much like Pyro/REB against non-blue decks. If it's in your initial hand against aggro you can mulligan it like it wasn't a land. And since in my list you drop Daretti almost always turn 3 against aggro, you can easily discard it early. I've never encountered a scenario where this bit me back (and all I played against was aggro since I added Boseiju). Also, making Anger of the Gods and Slagstorm uncounterable is invaluable against Narset/Geist. I'd only add it if I have both Expedition Map and Crucible in the deck though.
You're probably right about Devastation vs Jokulhaups. I don't own one yet, though, but it's right next in my buy list, together with portal Wildfire, Cruel Tutor and my 23rd beta Mountain
BUT, I'll say one thing: costing only 6 mana IS relevant. There were a few times where my chances to win were to build for an early Jokulhaups/Wildfire/Burning of X and not needing the 7th mana was really important. The extra turn it takes to play Devastation vs Jokulhaups can really hurt you. That's the same reason I don't play Destructive Force.
I actually love utility lands, and think Boseiju and Maze of Ith seem totally fine. My issue with the 2 mana sac lands is they're so "all in." It doesn't seem like the deck has enough game ending bombs to warrant them. Blood Moon is a good example, but it feels like there should be more. Have you thought about running Metalworker? That would seem worth it to play that turn 2, and go nuts turn 3. As far as fetches being Stifled, sure, that's true, but there are plenty of bigger things to Stifle. I usually don't lead with a fetch land anyway, so I'm not too worried about that.
Port is seriously good, so definitely run that!
I played against a Nin player tonight that was running a ton of artifacts, and he ran Trading Post. The game went loooong, and this ended up getting him back his artifacts I had destroyed. First time seeing the card since coming back into MTG. Have you thought of this? Seems like an awesome utility card for the long game. And it's a discard outlet for 1! I also had a few games where I drew probably 15 land over the course of 20 turns. I see what you mean about Ball, here, with the digging. I'm open to putting Ball back in after that. Oh, one more thing with Top: on the off chance you ever have it with Welder, you can use it as a card draw engine. Pay 1 to look at the top 3 cards, respond by tapping it to draw, then respond to that to weld Top out for something in your graveyard. Top goes to the grave, you draw a card, and then look at the top 3. You can repeat this every other turn as long as Welder is active. Again, off chance, but it's another thing going for it.
Let's break down what you said here. You mention that you don't like Pyroclasm and Whipflare because there are a bunch of 3 toughness creatures that are hard to deal with, but you don't like Flamebreak either, which deals with those. I never have issues with red, probably because I'm playing less utility lands. I've played somewhere around 20 or so games with this deck so far and the only flyers I've had to worry about were so big, Flamebreak wouldn't have killed them anyway. I like it for now.
I do love Aftershock, and considered it. I'd like to find room for that at some point.
As far as All is Dust, you got part of the reason: indestructible stuff. However, this is a good way to sweep a bunch of planeswalkers at once, and as you pointed out, there are a lot of enchantments we have a hard time getting rid of. That said, Gao Qiu made a good point about Devastation and I'll definitely put that in next. However, I think both spells should be in. So I have to find room. I've been thinking of Smokestack, too, and I'd love to fit that in. I do know how good it can be, it just feels more... 'fair' with the lands that are legal in this format.
I like Bauble here because it puts the land into play, rather simply fetching it. If I had more utility lands, Map would definitely be in.
Solemn is in mostly as a body to protect Daretti. I don't always play Daretti on turn 3. Sometimes I do a couple other things so that I can use Daretti's -2 as soon as he comes in. If you go turn 1 anything except Faithless Looting, turn 2 rock, and turn 3 Daretti, you're basically +1ing him and he's totally vulnerable. Solemn gives me something to do before that ramps me, protects Daretti next turn, and draws me a card if they throw something big my way.
Also, Mox Opal has been good so far. Though I do think you're right that I need more artifacts here. Metalcraft could be a thing if we ran Great Furnace and Metalworker! I'd be interested to try that, but I'd need to change the deck around a bit.
I think Trinisphere could be good, but it seems like it's really best early on, and you can't rush it into play without using 2 mana sac lands, and that's just an awful plan. Again, this is one of those cards that's amazing in Stax decks but is much less explosive in EDH. Mana Web does help vs aggro because they have to cast all their spells in one main phase, rather than some pre-combat and then more post-combat. From a psychology point of view, some people are going to simply make mistakes because they don't tap mana correctly, and I'm always down on overly complicating things for the opponent. Go go decision fatigue! But really, it's mostly there for control, though.
I think every deck has some amount of search, so Stranglehold feels good here. You'll likely play it back to back with a sweeper. Against green decks this is HUGE, because they can overwhelm you with ramp crazy fast. Nearly all of my games against elf-centric decks do some kind of tutoring after a sweeper, so in theory this should stop that.
Speaking of aggro, have you considered Smoke? Totally underrated card, I think. Any deck running red and not a lot of creatures should probably run it. A big reason is because enchantments seem like the hardest permanents to deal with in this format, and there are tons of creatures everywhere. I mostly play on Cockatrice and there's a critical mass of damage and creature removal due to creatures being everyone's main focus, then it drops down to just a couple bounce spells, 1-2 artifact removal, and hardly any enchantment removal. I see Smoke serving a similar role as Cursed Totem by halting fast decks that abuse mana dorks early on. Sometimes you don't have time to get to 3 mana for a sweeper and you need something ASAP (which is why I like the 'clasms). My main theory behind this is that since Daretti is a control deck, the early game is critical. If I can make it to the mid game with enough mana, I'm in awesome shape.
Fellwar Stone is really just another early game mana rock that I can weld out, later. For those games that I did something turn 2 instead of a mana rock (like a 'clasm or draw spell), it lets me play 2 mana rocks turn 3. Some games have been tight where I needed an additional mana, but I had a mana rock that came in tapped. However, you're right that it sucks when I've blown up all their lands. That hasn't happened to me in the 20 or so games I've played with this deck, yet, so we'll see if that's an issue later.
I can totally see cutting Ichor Wellspring, so that's not a problem. My only concern with Revoker is it dies to my sweepers, and sweepers happen a lot, every game. Same issue with Magus of the Moon: I have to choose between locking down something (their Planeswalker via Revoker, or land via Magus), or sweep all their guys. Sometimes that can go either way and luck is not what a mono red deck needs to rely on. Magus is still in, but it's on the watch list. I know, I know, he's good. And usually fantastic vs Control, so it's probably fine to leave him in and just discard him to Daretti against 1-2 color decks.
I can also see cutting Squee because it's only good when Daretti is out. I'm fine with that. Pilgrim's Eye is okay, but not exactly exciting. I'd probably cut it, too. Like I said earlier, I'm pretty happy with Mox Opal, so that stays for now. I may put Scrap Mastery back in as a way to deal with other artifact heavy decks.
Lastly, I think I'm going to take out Tormenting Voice and Wild Guess. I drew both (plus Looting) one game vs that artifact Nin deck and they did nothing. There are better card advantage cards / discard outlets. I'd rather just play more lock pieces / removal at this point. I'm going to test Vandalblast, too.
I think any list running 40+ artifacts is probably cool with Metalcraft. Maybe 42+. I'd have to crunch some stats to know for sure. Anafenza, the Foremost seems pretty annoying, and Galvanic Blast would deal with her (and all the other 3 toughness dudes you don't like).
Uba Mask is probably not what this deck wants, so that's fine. Just brainstorming there. I could see Myriad Landscape being better than a 2 mana sac land because I get to permanently keep those 2 lands, which don't go towards my land for the turn, and shuffles the deck. Again, I can't state enough how important it is to keep permanents out. Heavy counter decks can really ruin your day if you're losing spells and lands to counters.
Another card I considered adding was Karn, Silver Golem. 1, it's an alternate win condition in itself and works after a big sweeper. 2, you can also attack with him into some random blocker (which they almost always fall for), turning him into a Wall of Stone, and then use a damage sweeper to kill everything else. 3, one of the most appealing tricks with him is to turn your opponents artifacts into creatures and then kill them with a sweeper. 4, he makes Equipment fall off for 1. What are your thoughts here?
Also playing around with the idea of Pyrokinesis. You can tap out and still kill guys, which is nice. Also there's a surprise factor, which I'm sure no one will see coming. Might be too conditional, but I'm running nearly 20 red cards, so it's probably fine?
Lastly, I also considered Recoup. It fits well with Daretti since you can flash it back, and it would probably be good late game to recur another sweeper or artifact destruction. Fairly cheap, too. Might be too cute?
I considered Metalworker, but the artifact count is not that high to warrant it's inclusion. Also, it's a terrible late game top deck, since you're almost always with just a few cards in hand, none of which are artifacts.
I used Trading Post in my first list. Yeah it's versatile but man, is it SLOW. I find that these little effects that give you advantage over time are less important than game-breaking stuff in Daretti. Of course, I would play it if I had slots, but I don't think I'd trade anything for it right now.
I don't like Flamebreak because I think we have better options for that slot. Hitting planeswalkers is a thing, but I'd rather run Aftershock, Contagion Engine or something else instead of it. As I said, it's all a matter of finding slots, and I don't think Flamebreak makes it. Also, it has he problem of costing RRR, which is hard to achieve early in my list - and since it doesn't have a colorless in it's mana cost can't be played with Boseiju.
About Solemn Simulacrum, I also like it, and it also comes down to slots. Since I added Ugin I feel I need real ramp. Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus do that and are also immune to Winter Orb, which is really, really relevant. And remember, you only play Daretti turn 3 if he can survive the board. The nice thing is to have that option.
Trinisphere is best after Winter Orb, Static Orb or Wildfire/Jokulhaups/Devastation. It helps you make sure your opponent isn't coming back. It's also good against control, since it's a second Defense Grid.
I thought about Smoke a lot, but cut it because you can't sac it to Daretti once you need to punch your opponent. I may be wrong about it's power, since I never tested it extensively, but enchantments are hard in Daretti because you can't recur them and you can't take them out once you need it. I think my only enchantment is Blood Moon (and there were times where I wish I could take it out with Daretti).
I can't praise Magus or Revoker enough. Just go with them!
I wouldn't cut Voice nor Guess. They do 2 things for you: draw cards and discard things so Daretti can bring them in immediately. This is very relevant.
I thought about running things like Combust, Rending Volley or Roast to deal with Doran/Anafenza early. Seems good. But Dead // Gone is probably better than all.
The problem with Myriad Landscape is that it consumes 3 mana to activate and the lands enter tapped. You lose an entire turn to do that early in the game. Just test it: put Landscape in your starting hand. You will see that you'll only have time to fetch with it by turn 7 or so.
I love Karn, Silver Golem. It comes down to slots. I don't thing transforming my lock pieces in creatures is good since it gives your opponents more outs. He protects Daretti greatly though. I just don't see where he could come in. Batterskull? I think I'd rather gain life than have Karn. I don't know. He's always on my watch list, but I never find room for him. If you ever want to add Mycosynth Lattice (Lattice also works well with Nevinyrral's Disk hehe)
I thought about Recoup, but if you want to recur stuff Codex Shredder is probably better.
-Ichor Wellspring
-Squee
-Tormenting Voice
-Wild Guess
-Pilgrim's Eye
-Snow-Covered Mountain x 2
-Solemn Simulacrum
+Crystal Ball
+Devastation
+Karn, Silver Golem
+Smoke
+Vandalblast
+Dwarven Ruins
+Crystal Vein
+Gilded Lotus
We'll see if these lands are all they're cracked up to be I'm going to give this iteration of the deck a good 20-25 games to see how I feel about everything.