I just looked up Tormenting Voice. Oh hell yes, that glorious CA.
Technically it's still just card selection (net +0 CA) unlike the former Act on Impulse. but man Wild Guess has performed so well already, I can't believe they made one with an easier cmc!
I've also made a few edits since today (and yesterday as well) to include adding Grim Lavamancer to better utilize our graveyard resource (bonus that we don't use it at all with the exception of in conjunction with Crucible).
True, that. I guess in seeing a functional reprint of Wild Guess, which is amazing already, that I forgot it's still strictly a Looting effect.
I agree with Grim Lavamancer. If we're going to go all-in, might as well throw in the graveyard chips too. Plus he acts as semi-recurrable utility creature removal, unlike double-edged Goblin Guide. Shame we're not gonna be running From the Ashes, I still think it has merit.
Would AiR benefit from an "other runnable cards" list?
True, that. I guess in seeing a functional reprint of Wild Guess, which is amazing already, that I forgot it's still strictly a Looting effect.
I agree with Grim Lavamancer. If we're going to go all-in, might as well throw in the graveyard chips too. Plus he acts as semi-recurrable utility creature removal, unlike double-edged Goblin Guide. Shame we're not gonna be running From the Ashes, I still think it has merit.
Would AiR benefit from an "other runnable cards" list?
I think From the Ashes is sitting right on that cusp. I don't want another four drop, so this has to replace an existing one...but all the other four drops, objectively, are better than this card. it's an awkward spot to be in.
What do you mean by "other runnable cards"? The list as it stands is how I view it as most optimal -- anything else would be not as optimal.
Also I ran a price check on the deck in case someone wanted to build it in paper. According to Blackborder the cost for everything (except Mana Crypt, since that wasn't listed in stock) was $367. You could save $140 without the fetchlands, and then after that, the most expensive card is Jitte ($30), and Crucible ($26). So one could, conceivably, make this deck without those cards for under $200 (and still be very reasonably competitive) -- I think that's a pretty awesome achievement.
When I said that, I was mostly thinking of whether we needed anything for specific matchups. In general, I don't think we're going to need anything different, maybe until CMDR 2014 gets released next month.
When I said that, I was mostly thinking of whether we needed anything for specific matchups. In general, I don't think we're going to need anything different, maybe until CMDR 2014 gets released next month.
Oh, so like a sideboard then? Shame Commander doesn't use those, I could fill that up quickly haha.
I'd like to try to play Shrapnel Blast (which needs more artifacts than I'm comfortable playing, I think), Staggershock, & Pyrite Spellbomb. I don't think these can go in right now though.
One thing I like about Goblin Vandal is that it'll potentially ruin someone like Jor Kadeen or Sharuum's day much more easily than Viashino Heretic would, plus getting rid of early game Sol Rings or Mana Crypts. On the other hand, I can see him doing nothing against a lot of green decks, plus I see enough graveyard interaction that I'd hate to lose Ash Zealot. It will be interesting to see how it plays out for you, regardless; do come back with AARs if you can!
One thing I like about Goblin Vandal is that it'll potentially ruin someone like Jor Kadeen or Sharuum's day much more easily than Viashino Heretic would, plus getting rid of early game Sol Rings or Mana Crypts. On the other hand, I can see him doing nothing against a lot of green decks, plus I see enough graveyard interaction that I'd hate to lose Ash Zealot. It will be interesting to see how it plays out for you, regardless; do come back with AARs if you can!
I'd imagine the number of times you don't have an artifact I want to blow up is much smaller than the time when he does have a target. And if so? He's a one-drop. And he still carries a rusty axe into the red zone like everything else.
I decided to keep Ash Zealot -- even though it's largely "just a beater", it still has some serious game and it's stats are pretty unreal. I cut a colourless land and the Mox instead, in order to make these changes.
Definitely can't cut any more lands for stuff now, though. From personal experience, I find that under 36, MTGO starts showing you exactly how bad true RNG can get.
Back when I was running the old AiR list, I remember Ash Zealot trading hits with a Thalia whose player completely forgot or didn't realize Ash had First Strike too. Fun times.
Definitely can't cut any more lands for stuff now, though. From personal experience, I find that under 36, MTGO starts showing you exactly how bad true RNG can get.
Back when I was running the old AiR list, I remember Ash Zealot trading hits with a Thalia whose player completely forgot or didn't realize Ash had First Strike too. Fun times.
Yeah, definitely not. Well...maybe. But I'd have to trim 90% of my four drops to justify it...and I don't feel cutting any of our four drops is #BestForBusiness.
Man...Ash Zealot looks like it could have been legendary. It'd be a pretty awesome commander haha.
Also I just realized I can't playtest the deck yet. KTK isn't out which means I can't have a Tormenting Voice.
I ran a price check on the deck in case someone wanted to build it in paper. According to Blackborder the cost for everything (except Mana Crypt, since that wasn't listed in stock) was $367. You could save $140 without the fetchlands, and then after that, the most expensive card is Jitte ($30), and Crucible ($26). So one could, conceivably, make this deck without those cards for under $200 (and still be very reasonably competitive) -- I think that's a pretty awesome achievement.
If you were to try to do this on a budget what could be some cheap replacements for some of the more expensive cards? I really like this deck and have a copy of the commander in my trade folder already!
I'm not sure what you mean, but this post above is a recent (within two weeks) price check I did via Blackborder.com. it is already very affordable for the power level it boasts of, and no one card in particular is outrageously expensive (highest cards being Crucible & Jitte). The thing about mono-R especially in this format, is you have so many cards you must run because we need to be operating at the peak of efficiency and raw power. When you start adding "budget" replacements, the power level noticeably drops. If no Jitte, then what? Nothing can replace what that card brings to the table. Where do you stop after this cut though? Is Eidolon too expensive now as well? Fact is, good cards cost money because they are good, and they are the best at generating what we're trying to generate -- the most damage in the shortest amount of time.
A lot of the cards in the list are common and uncommon, and I'm sure that helps the cost as well.
If you were to try to do this on a budget what could be some cheap replacements for some of the more expensive cards? I really like this deck and have a copy of the commander in my trade folder already!
The main two things that drive up the price of this deck are Gauntlet of Might and Mana Crypt. For the former, I would suggest maybe adding another relevant 4-drop threat (Hound of Griselbrand used to be on this list for instance), and for the latter, there aren't a whole lot of 0 CMC cards with similar strength so I would maybe look for another good 1-drop or perhaps even slap in a regular ol' Mountain. The rest of the deck is still tightly chosen enough that you will be someone to contend with.
As far as fetchlands go, you could also maybe get away with dropping one if you don't wish to get rid of all of them. If you have to pick one, do away with Scalding Tarn since that thing is priced as highly as Kozilek. The remaining three fetchlands plus Strip Mine and Ghost Quarter should still be enough to get good use out of Crucible of Worlds.
I updated the main deck to add Goblin Wardriver over Young Pyromancer (with change notes included), and I added a Duel-Commander legal version of the deck at the bottom of this mini-Primer.
Keldon Marauders seems like it would be good if we had more Haste enabling so that they'd be a potential 8 for 2 mana instead of a potential 5 for 2 mana.
Yeah, I really don't like spending cards on such temporary threats such as those or Hellspark Elemental. In sixty-card twenty life that's one thing, but with the extra ten life and 99-card singleton? It loses too much value.
I'm kinda thinkin' Aftershock might be a cut. Is four cmc too slow to remove a permanent at sorcery speed? It's land destruction, and a card I'm never unhappy to see, but I wonder if Purphoros, God of the Forge might give us the reach to go over the top.
Pros
- Four cmc is a good curve topper.
- Extra reach just for playing dudes, out-of-hand with a Goblin Assault effect.
- Good mana sink that also works to pressure opponents and win sooner.
- Resilient to removal
- Six power is a good deal for four cmc.
- Zo-Zu plus Purph. is a minimum 60% devo count; turning on is all but certain in any given game.
Cons
- Aftershock is versatile. Few R cards outright deal with a permanent absolutely and this is one such card.
Been busy with work the past week. Can't disagree with Purp's inclusion, though it's a shame we lose Aftershock for it.
Have any hopes for new cards in this deck with regards to C14?
That's just the point the deck is at. Doesn't mean Aftershock is bad, just means it's not as efficient as what we're trying to do. And, as you say, I feel Purphoros is pulling more weight for the deck than Aftershock ever did.
I don't really know what to expect out of C14. So I will just wait patiently and evaluate cards on their own merits.
Been working, but fortunately I have the day off today.
Daretti, Scrap Savant is the only new card that interests me. Don't think we 'll get much use out of his -2, but his looting seems like it might be useful, even if it's not CA like Chandra, Pyromaster?
Been working, but fortunately I have the day off today.
Daretti, Scrap Savant is the only new card that interests me. Don't think we 'll get much use out of his -2, but his looting seems like it might be useful, even if it's not CA like Chandra, Pyromaster?
Deretti is a strong card no doubt, but in our four drop? Look at the competition. Chandra is so good because it's also giving evasion. And since we're not using Deretti's -2 in this deck in any meaningful way, I couldn't justify it over our existing four drops.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Technically it's still just card selection (net +0 CA) unlike the former Act on Impulse. but man Wild Guess has performed so well already, I can't believe they made one with an easier cmc!
I've also made a few edits since today (and yesterday as well) to include adding Grim Lavamancer to better utilize our graveyard resource (bonus that we don't use it at all with the exception of in conjunction with Crucible).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I agree with Grim Lavamancer. If we're going to go all-in, might as well throw in the graveyard chips too. Plus he acts as semi-recurrable utility creature removal, unlike double-edged Goblin Guide. Shame we're not gonna be running From the Ashes, I still think it has merit.
Would AiR benefit from an "other runnable cards" list?
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
I think From the Ashes is sitting right on that cusp. I don't want another four drop, so this has to replace an existing one...but all the other four drops, objectively, are better than this card. it's an awkward spot to be in.
What do you mean by "other runnable cards"? The list as it stands is how I view it as most optimal -- anything else would be not as optimal.
Also I ran a price check on the deck in case someone wanted to build it in paper. According to Blackborder the cost for everything (except Mana Crypt, since that wasn't listed in stock) was $367. You could save $140 without the fetchlands, and then after that, the most expensive card is Jitte ($30), and Crucible ($26). So one could, conceivably, make this deck without those cards for under $200 (and still be very reasonably competitive) -- I think that's a pretty awesome achievement.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Oh, so like a sideboard then? Shame Commander doesn't use those, I could fill that up quickly haha.
I'd like to try to play Shrapnel Blast (which needs more artifacts than I'm comfortable playing, I think), Staggershock, & Pyrite Spellbomb. I don't think these can go in right now though.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I believe Ash Zealot is the cut. Thoughts?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
I'd imagine the number of times you don't have an artifact I want to blow up is much smaller than the time when he does have a target. And if so? He's a one-drop. And he still carries a rusty axe into the red zone like everything else.
I decided to keep Ash Zealot -- even though it's largely "just a beater", it still has some serious game and it's stats are pretty unreal. I cut a colourless land and the Mox instead, in order to make these changes.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Back when I was running the old AiR list, I remember Ash Zealot trading hits with a Thalia whose player completely forgot or didn't realize Ash had First Strike too. Fun times.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Yeah, definitely not. Well...maybe. But I'd have to trim 90% of my four drops to justify it...and I don't feel cutting any of our four drops is #BestForBusiness.
Man...Ash Zealot looks like it could have been legendary. It'd be a pretty awesome commander haha.
Also I just realized I can't playtest the deck yet. KTK isn't out which means I can't have a Tormenting Voice.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'm not sure what you mean, but this post above is a recent (within two weeks) price check I did via Blackborder.com. it is already very affordable for the power level it boasts of, and no one card in particular is outrageously expensive (highest cards being Crucible & Jitte). The thing about mono-R especially in this format, is you have so many cards you must run because we need to be operating at the peak of efficiency and raw power. When you start adding "budget" replacements, the power level noticeably drops. If no Jitte, then what? Nothing can replace what that card brings to the table. Where do you stop after this cut though? Is Eidolon too expensive now as well? Fact is, good cards cost money because they are good, and they are the best at generating what we're trying to generate -- the most damage in the shortest amount of time.
A lot of the cards in the list are common and uncommon, and I'm sure that helps the cost as well.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The main two things that drive up the price of this deck are Gauntlet of Might and Mana Crypt. For the former, I would suggest maybe adding another relevant 4-drop threat (Hound of Griselbrand used to be on this list for instance), and for the latter, there aren't a whole lot of 0 CMC cards with similar strength so I would maybe look for another good 1-drop or perhaps even slap in a regular ol' Mountain. The rest of the deck is still tightly chosen enough that you will be someone to contend with.
As far as fetchlands go, you could also maybe get away with dropping one if you don't wish to get rid of all of them. If you have to pick one, do away with Scalding Tarn since that thing is priced as highly as Kozilek. The remaining three fetchlands plus Strip Mine and Ghost Quarter should still be enough to get good use out of Crucible of Worlds.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Pros
- Four cmc is a good curve topper.
- Extra reach just for playing dudes, out-of-hand with a Goblin Assault effect.
- Good mana sink that also works to pressure opponents and win sooner.
- Resilient to removal
- Six power is a good deal for four cmc.
- Zo-Zu plus Purph. is a minimum 60% devo count; turning on is all but certain in any given game.
Cons
- Aftershock is versatile. Few R cards outright deal with a permanent absolutely and this is one such card.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Have any hopes for new cards in this deck with regards to C14?
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
That's just the point the deck is at. Doesn't mean Aftershock is bad, just means it's not as efficient as what we're trying to do. And, as you say, I feel Purphoros is pulling more weight for the deck than Aftershock ever did.
I don't really know what to expect out of C14. So I will just wait patiently and evaluate cards on their own merits.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Daretti, Scrap Savant is the only new card that interests me. Don't think we 'll get much use out of his -2, but his looting seems like it might be useful, even if it's not CA like Chandra, Pyromaster?
Hidetsugu - Combo Damage
Ezuri - Elfball
Theorycrafting:
Selvala - "A hunter must hunt."
Selvala - Budget
Deretti is a strong card no doubt, but in our four drop? Look at the competition. Chandra is so good because it's also giving evasion. And since we're not using Deretti's -2 in this deck in any meaningful way, I couldn't justify it over our existing four drops.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.