Hello all, This will be the fourth deck I have published. As always I am trying to find the next best original thing to make a deck out of. As of late I have had a couple goals beyond the required originality, both create a deck on a reasonable budget (Grimm Tutor would have to be dropped but that's really it), as well as have it be able to switch between classic multiplayer and Duel Commander with ease. Thus we come to my latest creation.
I am truly a black mage, and I really wanted to get back to my petrified roots. This deck started out as my take on the God of Death, but not only is he becoming a surprisingly popular general, his mechanics really did not add anything special to the deck.
Of course it would be a combo deck I am 100% Johnny. I have thrown together some of the best black combos possible making them as interchangeable and resilient as I can. Mono Black doomsday was tricky, but I figured out several ways to pull it off effectively, on top of each combo being a two piece thing that worked on its own without doomsday. But first and fore most I feel it is a doomsday deck, thus my personal nick name for it Talrasha's Doom.
For anyone who does not understand the nicknames reference its a throwback to Diablo 2, act 2, when the unsuspecting player wanders around Talrasha's tomb and finally runs into Duriel the Lord of Pain(Who looks an awful lot like Kagemaro), which was not only the lesser evil that assisted Baal in Talrashas ultimate doom, but also of many an unsuspecting player as the giant maggot demon immediately rushed and usually killed you, and of course well its a doomsday deck :P. and you know doom/tomb kinda rhymes.
Why pick the weird maggot?
First and foremost the likeness between Kagemaro, First to suffer, and Durriel the Lord of Pain is uncanny. To any Diablo two player who remembers being murdered by that giant maggot demon that alone is enough to make you want your opponents to suffer with Kagemaro.
I choose Kagemaro as my general as I have always been a Johnny player, I love creative deck building more then any other aspect of the game, and I always feel that I must be original with what I come up with, and that It also has to be competitive. I'm the type of guy who likes to come up with metas. So on went my quest to find generals no one used who I could make something creative with and blast my competition away.
So that led me to Kagemaro, the deck does not need him to function, and certainly does not need him to win. But having a Mutilate on a stick accomplishes something rather special, not only does it give me a very consistent answer to alot of the problem decks prosh, animar, marath, any aggro, it also frees up deck space by letting me run less removal. Mass removal for a general is pretty neat it was a good start. Now what to do to match my constant field wipes? Well the answer was pretty obvious a fairly low creature count and combos. If I wanted to be able to run doomsday and all its painfulness I needed to make sure I can keep the field clear so I can survive the turn I doomsday, and Kagemaro serves that purpose really well. Also he makes a really good beater and back up win condition all by him self, I am running a fair amount of ramp so recasting him is not to hard, he comes in, beats face, wipes fields and repeats till you can get that commander damage through, its a pretty funny way to do things.
__________________
The Basics: Combos:
Necrotic Ooze+Burried alive (dumping triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer)
Helm of Obedience+Leyline of the void
Doomsday(See below)
(Multiplayer)Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Triskelion
The deck is not all that difficult to pilot aside from using doomsday, but doomsday just takes a little practice. Beyond doomsday it functions as a monoblack control deck that seeks to combo out either as fast as possible or when appropriate versus permission. By appropriate I mean preferably comboing after using a discard to clear the way of counters, however the deck has back up combos, as well as some recycling.
If you have the choice the Ooze combo is the best as it is the hardest to stop because not even instant speed removal will kill ooze before you kill them. The Mikaeus combo is the worst because it is vulnerable to the most common kind of removal creature kill spells, and has been cut from the 1v1 version all together. I made it as resilient to failing combos as possible, both the mika/ooze use trisk and can both be recycled through reanimation so they are quite interchangeable. Helm/Leyline does not rely on the graveyard to win. Two of the combos work work with doomsday and can be recycled by it.
There are only two cards you really want to be cautious about casting. First is of course doomsday because if you get disrupted after using it you know you have lost. Second is buried alive as its a one of a kind in your deck and you have no way to reuse it short of yawgmoth, the others you pretty much fire off at will.
A note on tutors of course use them to the best of your judgement, but there are some simple basics. Besides the obvious of if you have one combo piece and a tutor, search for the other piece, there is, if you only have one tutor go get doomsday. If you have a reanimate in hand tutor for buried alive and dump all three of the Ooze combo's and bring back the ooze. Also don't forget that tutoring either Boseju and or Defense grid could be very helpful as blue will rarely counter a tutor in hopes to counter what ever you tutored for. Should you allready have a combo ready to go searching for an unmask or persecute is also viable.
The deck has 149 total cmc not including buried alive, ooze, trisk, and devourer, meaning you likely have enough ammo to instant win even a 4 player classic edh game instantly upon ooze resolution, and more then enough for duel commander even if your opponent has crazy life gain.
In deck creation I came up with several orginal Doomsday combos, sadly I choose not to use one of them, one did not work, and the two I ended up using while one is original it is very similar to one that uses victimize. I did quite a bit of googling to see if I had actually original ones just to be sure.
There are two different primary doomsday stacks that win all by them selves assuming you survive the turn after you doomsday and or have enough mana plus a draw card to do it that turn. A preferable alternative way to use doomsday is when you already have one of the stack pieces in your hand as this will let you either add unmask to the stack to assure you don't get countered, and or go off faster with another mana card added to the stack and or using a cheaper draw spell in the stack. There are of course game specific variations that are possible just use your best judgement.
Doomsday Stacks:
5 land + Infernal Contract+Leyline+helm+Cabal ritual+Rain of Flith
Note after casting doomsday sacing 4 swamps+rain+the draw spell is exactly seven which lets you hit cabals threshold. If you have less land but more mana total either rain or Cabal can be substituted for dark ritual.
----
I have cut these two from the 1v1 version of the deck, but still run them in multiplayer.
5 land 1 mana + Moonlit Bargain+Mikaeus+Triskelon+Rain of Flith+Living Death
8 mana + Moonlit Bargain+Mikaeus+Triskelon+ Reanimate+ Shallow Grave
__________________
Onto card selection and why I have chosen the slots I have.
Most of the picks explain themselves or I have already explained.
I choose the discard's I did rather then strong ones from the maybe board because these ones (excluding hymn which is to good not to use) give me control of the discard and a peek at there hand which is quite important when playing against permission.
I choose my version of the classic victimise+bloodghast/skeleton for the Mika combo, because the deck is really cramped for room and it would require another slot or two to use, on top of which I dont regularly have other creatures to sac to victimise. Second It either costs two more mana then mine, or requires you to have a land in your hand. Third Shallow Grave will also work for the ooze combo or with mika+trisk with one of them in hand and the other in the grave. Also I never actually have to choose this combo unless the other two have both been broken. When I am using buried alive its just always better to search for the ooze combo anyways. My version is still listed on the off chance an extremely unlikely scenario occurs where you need it. I choose reanimate/ Shallow Grave over the other ones because they don't fold to enchant removal.
All of the removal the deck kept is less then 3 mana so it can A. act quickly versus aggro and or animar, and B. get around Gaddock Teeg. I favored -x/-x because it gets around indestructible.
__________________
Maybe Board:
Other cards I have considered and either took out or haven't gotten around to testing/couldent find things to take out for them:
Bad Matchups:
I am really proud of this one, it may be my best one yet. Mld and lock decks are the only potential threat. The general answers a lot of meta problems and aggro, the deck combos faster then most other decks(It even has rare turn 1 wins, and fairly consistent turn 5 wins), it can take its time and use discards vs control decks. I feel it has a higher win rate then anything else in the format.
These are matches, many of the competitive generals where able to take me to game 3. This list does not include a few other wins against random crap I cant remember, a lot of wins in multiplier/classic, and of course single round matches where someone leaves before game two.
Match Log:
Dervi 5 wins 1 loss
It would take dervi/arbiter getting a very early lock to beat it, and neither of them consistently push out locks before it can go off, the rest of the time I crush them. (Given I will usualy loose to an early lock).
Mara 9 wins, 5 loss
(Early Survial of the fittest, and birthing pods are super deadly, but it takes a pretty lucky hand with something like that in it to really be an issue, typicaly I either combo before she can do anything done, or I reset her field with kage seting her back big time)
Animar 6 win, 3 loss
(Yes several of those wins are against jester! He is on average a turn faster then I am, but If i draw a mass removal, or he has a slow start I crush him)
Dralanu Reanimater 1 loss
A strong deck for sure, its basically the dimir version of my deck but it traded its constant field wipes for blue. In the 3 games we played he got ooze combo faster then me twice :(. This one is again pretty much a toss up.
Grand Arbiter 4 win 1 loss
It would take dervi/arbiter getting a very early lock to beat it, and neither of them consistently push out locks before it can go off, the rest of the time I crush them. (Given I will usualy loose to an early lock).
Clique 1 win 2 loss
Clique is officially a bad match up, most control is a non issue as I run as many discards as most control does counters, but the variation of clique that is 90% counter spells and as usual says **** you whenever I tutor, if hes played smart anyways, he pretty much kicks my teeth in. Only thing I can do is to get and or tutor for boseju or loose without enough luck that you can outdiscard his counters. Lucky for me, he is very rarely played anymore since prosh, dervi, and mara wreck him. You can beat him with a doomsday stack without knowing his hand but its tricky and you have to get creative with something along the lines of 3 discards+combo and doing it slowly.
Wlydwin the biting gale 1 loss
Wlydwin is another super brutal match up when shes plays with over half the deck being counterspells and the rest draw power/hand destruction, but again wlydwin and and clique are very dead in this format. Typical control is easy, as they just dont put that time clock on me that those two do, I've beaten several monoblue control decks like kami, although Ill often win by voltron tactics against them. Lucky for me the overboard dedicated control style of wyldwin/clique is just about completely phased out. You wont win alot of the time against those two, it will take some luck with geting more discards then they have counters or an early boseju/defense grid.
Griselbrand 2 win 2 loss
Griselbrand is a surprisingly even match up, he packs as much or more hand hate as I do which is problematic, and if he can hold me off long enough to cast grisel he either wins via combos, or finding an answer to anything, several times after I doomsday he resolved grisel and drew hard for pithing needle.
Skullbriar 2 win, 4 loss
This deck has been turning out to be a surprising problem, and its becoming more common with the meta shift. My lack of blockers and the fact that even though I can remove skully a couple of times each game his ability to recur with haste and all his power has been really rough on me, pretty much takes a really fast hand to beat him, I don't think this is a match in my favor although it is certainly beatable Id say 40-60 his favor.
Talrand 1 win
Prosh 8 win 1 loss
Zur 3 win
Radha 1 win 1 loss
Krenko 1 win
Damia 1 win
Gheist 3 win
kami Cresent Moon 1 win
Thrax 2 win
Mimoplasm 1 win
Syg 1 win
MLD lock Oloro 1 win 1 loss
Control Oloro 1 loss
Combo Oloro, 2 win
Youch's Reanimator Oloro, 1 win
Captain Sissay 3 win
Enchantress Angus 1 win
Enchantress jenara 4 wins, 1 loss
Jenara aggro 1 win 1 loss
Oliva 1 win
Sharoom 2 win
Maelstorm 6 win 3 loss
Nin the Pain artist 3 wins 1 loss(Shoulden't have been a loss, I had the game, played the wrong card from my hand and threw it)
Mld Doran 3 win, 3 loss
Linvala 1 win, 1 loss
Riku 2 win
Karador Ghost Cheiften 4 win
Scion the Ur Dragon 1 win
Azusa 1 win
Gahiji, Honored One 1 win
Omnath 1 loss (Should not be a tough match, but omnath is a very strong and fast general and can surprise you with a good hand)
Tesya- 2 wins
iname 1 win
Skithrax 8 wins, 4 loss
teneb 1 win
Ezuri 1 win
Ishamro 1 win
Child of Alara 1 win
Thalia 1 loss (A match in my favor as its hard for her to recover from field wipes, but she can sometimes lock me out pretty hard, lost both games to null rod and sphere combined)
Purphoros God of the Forge 3 win, 1 loss
Mld Thrun 2 loss 1 win
Ephara, God of the Polis 3 win 2 loss
Wort bogart 2 win
mogis 2 win
xenagos 2 win 1 loss
(While I know hes banned in french, I feel its still relevant to note I have several edric wins :P)
__________________
Epilogue/Looking to improve:
I really feel it has the potential to reach top tier. Any constructive criticism would be appreciated as I am starting to put the finishing touches on it.
__________________ Change Log:
Since posting thread
A funny attempt at doomsday I got so focused on the combo I completely missed something obvious, lets see if it takes you as long as It did me me to figure out what was wrong with it. The best part is I have used it in game more then once and neither me nor my opponent noticed the flaw, he recognized the ooze combo and surrendered. It was not untill I decided to count up my total cmc to see how it would perform in multiplayer did the flaw dawn on me. Anyway here it is:
6-7 mana + Moonlit Bargain+Phyrexian Devourer+Triskelon+Necrotic Ooze+Reanimate/ Shallow Grave
The other doomsday that did not make the cut 7 swamps+Infernal Contract+Basalt+Rings of Brighthearth+Rain of Filth+Exsanguinate/Profane Command
+1 Underworld Connections -1 Infest
+1 Everflowing Chalice, -1 Decree of Pain
+1 Skeletal Scrying, -1 Damnation
+1 Solemn Similcrum, -1 Mutilate
+1 Worn PowerStone, -1 Black Sun Zenith
+1 Fellwar Stone, -1 Chrome Mox
+1 Thran Dynamo, -1 basalt Monolith
+1 Reanimate, -1 Rings of Brighthearth
+1 Exhume, -1 Profane Command
+1 Animate Dead, -1 Exsanguinate
+1 Pithing Needle, -1 Gemstone Array
+1 Moonlit Bargain, -1 Beacon of Unrest
+1 Ad Nauseam, -1 Solemn Similcrum
+1 Greed, -1 Sickening Shoal
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead, -1 Nights Betrayel
+1 Mire's Toll, -1 Pithing Needle
+1 Painful Memories, -1 Buried Ruin
+1 Yawgmoths Will, -1 Animate Dead
+1 Damnation, -1 Ad Nauseam (Unless budgeting is an issue)
+1 Sudden Death, -1 Thran Dynamo
+1 Infest, -1 Powerstone
+1 Peat Bog, -1 Swamp
+1 City of Traitors, -1 Swamp
+1 Ebon Stronghold, -1 Swamp
+1 Crystal Vein, -1 Swamp
+1 Shallow Grave, -1 Exhume (Linvala was a problem)
+1 Lake of the Dead, -1 Temple of the False god
+1 Drown in Sorrow, -1 Infest
+1 Blood Stained Mire -1 swamp
+1 Marsh Flats -1 swamp
+1 Polluted Delta -1 swamp
+1 Verdant Catacombs -1 swamp
+1 Gemstone Caverns -1 swamp
+1 Living Death, -1 Phyrexian Arena
For 1v1 I added two swamps, and an exhume and cut Living Death, Mik and Moonlit Bargain.
Im guessing you did not read the rest of what I had posted at the time, I explained the nickname in detail later on.
Of if you were refering to this:
[ Deck is still under heavy construction, testing out some major changes, this was just simply the very first skeleton I threw together, currently testing the "less mass removal" I refer to in the thread]
The deck that was posted still had all its mass removal, despite talking about how I did not need it later on.
Hey DA: After playing this deck in our 1v1 match, I have to say officially that I really love it. It just seems incredibly unique, while still being fairly effective (at least vs me lol) so total props.
One thing I did want to ask about though is the Chalice and the dynamo. Your curve is super low, and even your combos require basically 0 mana to pull off (1 cmc for a reanimate, or 3 mana for doomsday). if you're running that low on required mana to go off, and your cmc is this low, it seems to merit a look at maybe cutting 1-2 of those cards for something like Dark Tutelage, or 1-2 more pieces of mass removal. I understand your general takes that slot most of the time, but Mutilate is the utter stones against a ton of the meta, and Sudden Death just straight answers a ton of threats, especially Zur.
Just my 2 cents. Loved the deck though, can't wait to see how you do ^.^
Chalice is staying for sure, but as for dynamo/powerstone, they are possible cuts, however I look at them as basically mutilate since those ones by them selves pretty much guarantee another general cast (whose ability is instant speed :D), as well as fuel some of my higher 5 cost tutors. Dynamo is rather high costed I am definitely considering cutting it either for Mutilate, or another Discard.
I considered tutelage/bob over some of my other draw spells, but they can end up hurting really bad which is hard to afford if I plan on using doomsday, as well as messing up the doomsday stack them selves since i cant control their draw.
Sudden Death is really good, I will try to find room for it, it may end up taking dynamos slot.
Having watched it numerous times, I'm impressed by its ability to win out-of-the-blue. The varying, versatile win conditions (which, I admit, I was initially unsure about) makes it much more difficult to stave off.
That being said, I would still consider cutting Mikaeus; he seems a bit clunky and is one of the harder kills to set up (you generally have to spend 12 mana and a tutor I imagine).
Awesome deck regardless, and glad to see it doing well. :] Best of luck!
Really glad to see your post tiger :D, thank you very much for the input. Mika is one of the slower combos, but because I already run trisk I included it, and the big reason I have kept it in is because it is part of my 8 mana doomsday combo, given it is not used very often in single player but it works wonders in multiplayer where helm/leyline just wont cut it. Mika while rarely used has gotten me out of pretty bad spots in single player both just on his own hard cast as well as with doomsday. I feel he is necessary as a back up win condition should it be needed and he synergises quite well with whats already in the deck. I very much see your point but I am going to keep him for now.
That was intentional, as it is both a utility card, and a win condition card. But no I do not run two yawgmoths, just representing it in applicable spots. (Same deal with Reanimate and Leyline, do you think its necessary to change this?)
hey its me spas, with the janky Mogis deck i lost 0-2
i love the moonlight bargain + reanimate combo, did you think that up yourself? one of the most innovative doomsday piles i've seen in awhile.
next time i'll play my talrand against you for the stats, it's a shame you don't have any matches against it yet
I'm glad you you liked it, I look forward to going against talrand. As for my doomsday combos I am proud to say that I come up with them my self, and at least when I made them I was unable to find them posted anywhere else.
Hello all, This will be the fourth deck I have published. As always I am trying to find the next best original thing to make a deck out of. As of late I have had a couple goals beyond the required originality, both create a deck on a reasonable budget (Grimm Tutor would have to be dropped but that's really it), as well as have it be able to switch between classic multiplayer and Duel Commander with ease. Thus we come to my latest creation.
I am truly a black mage, and I really wanted to get back to my petrified roots. This deck started out as my take on the God of Death, but not only is he becoming a surprisingly popular general, his mechanics really did not add anything special to the deck.
Of course it would be a combo deck I am 100% Johnny. I have thrown together some of the best black combos possible making them as interchangeable and resilient as I can. Mono Black doomsday was tricky, but I figured out several ways to pull it off effectively, on top of each combo being a two piece thing that worked on its own without doomsday. But first and fore most I feel it is a doomsday deck, thus my personal nick name for it Talrasha's Doom.
For anyone who does not understand the nicknames reference its a throwback to Diablo 2, act 2, when the unsuspecting player wanders around Talrasha's tomb and finally runs into Duriel the Lord of Pain(Who looks an awful lot like Kagemaro), which was not only the lesser evil that assisted Baal in Talrashas ultimate doom, but also of many an unsuspecting player as the giant maggot demon immediately rushed and usually killed you, and of course well its a doomsday deck :P. and you know doom/tomb kinda rhymes.
__________________
Without Further ado I present my deck list
1 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Star Compass
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Coalition Relic
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 1 Rain of Filth
Draw:
1 Sign in Blood
1 Night's Whisper
1 Read the Bones
1 Infernal Contract
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Underworld Connections
1 Greed
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
Tutors:
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Demonic Collusion
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Engineered Plague
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dystopia
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Sudden Death
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Damnation
Discard:
1 Distress
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unmask
1 Persecute
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Mire's Toll
1 Painful Memories
Utility:
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Defense Grid
1 Reanimate
1 Leyline of the Void
Land:
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
26 Swamp
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Peat Bog
1 City of Traitors
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 Crystal Vein
1 Blood Stained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Buried Alive
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Exhume
1 Reanimate
1 Shallow Grave
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Doomsday
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Doomsday
1 Demonic Consultation
27 Swamp
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
1 Star Compass
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Defense Grid
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Distress
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unmask
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bubbling Muck
1 Dystopia
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Coalition Relic
1 Sign in Blood
1 Night's Whisper
1 Read the Bones
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Buried Alive
1 Triskelion
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Underworld Connections
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Reanimate
1 Moonlight Bargain
1 Greed
1 Mire's Toll
1 Damnation
1 Infest
1 Peat Bog
1 Crystal Vein
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necro-Impotence
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Living Death
1 Shallow Grave
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Drown in Sorrow
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Persecute
1 Mana Vault
Why pick the weird maggot?
First and foremost the likeness between Kagemaro, First to suffer, and Durriel the Lord of Pain is uncanny. To any Diablo two player who remembers being murdered by that giant maggot demon that alone is enough to make you want your opponents to suffer with Kagemaro.
I choose Kagemaro as my general as I have always been a Johnny player, I love creative deck building more then any other aspect of the game, and I always feel that I must be original with what I come up with, and that It also has to be competitive. I'm the type of guy who likes to come up with metas. So on went my quest to find generals no one used who I could make something creative with and blast my competition away.
So that led me to Kagemaro, the deck does not need him to function, and certainly does not need him to win. But having a Mutilate on a stick accomplishes something rather special, not only does it give me a very consistent answer to alot of the problem decks prosh, animar, marath, any aggro, it also frees up deck space by letting me run less removal. Mass removal for a general is pretty neat it was a good start. Now what to do to match my constant field wipes? Well the answer was pretty obvious a fairly low creature count and combos. If I wanted to be able to run doomsday and all its painfulness I needed to make sure I can keep the field clear so I can survive the turn I doomsday, and Kagemaro serves that purpose really well. Also he makes a really good beater and back up win condition all by him self, I am running a fair amount of ramp so recasting him is not to hard, he comes in, beats face, wipes fields and repeats till you can get that commander damage through, its a pretty funny way to do things.
__________________
The Basics:
Combos:
Necrotic Ooze+Burried alive (dumping triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer)
Helm of Obedience+Leyline of the void
Doomsday(See below)
(Multiplayer)Mikaeus, the Unhallowed+Triskelion
The deck is not all that difficult to pilot aside from using doomsday, but doomsday just takes a little practice. Beyond doomsday it functions as a monoblack control deck that seeks to combo out either as fast as possible or when appropriate versus permission. By appropriate I mean preferably comboing after using a discard to clear the way of counters, however the deck has back up combos, as well as some recycling.
If you have the choice the Ooze combo is the best as it is the hardest to stop because not even instant speed removal will kill ooze before you kill them. The Mikaeus combo is the worst because it is vulnerable to the most common kind of removal creature kill spells, and has been cut from the 1v1 version all together. I made it as resilient to failing combos as possible, both the mika/ooze use trisk and can both be recycled through reanimation so they are quite interchangeable. Helm/Leyline does not rely on the graveyard to win. Two of the combos work work with doomsday and can be recycled by it.
There are only two cards you really want to be cautious about casting. First is of course doomsday because if you get disrupted after using it you know you have lost. Second is buried alive as its a one of a kind in your deck and you have no way to reuse it short of yawgmoth, the others you pretty much fire off at will.
A note on tutors of course use them to the best of your judgement, but there are some simple basics. Besides the obvious of if you have one combo piece and a tutor, search for the other piece, there is, if you only have one tutor go get doomsday. If you have a reanimate in hand tutor for buried alive and dump all three of the Ooze combo's and bring back the ooze. Also don't forget that tutoring either Boseju and or Defense grid could be very helpful as blue will rarely counter a tutor in hopes to counter what ever you tutored for. Should you allready have a combo ready to go searching for an unmask or persecute is also viable.
The deck has 149 total cmc not including buried alive, ooze, trisk, and devourer, meaning you likely have enough ammo to instant win even a 4 player classic edh game instantly upon ooze resolution, and more then enough for duel commander even if your opponent has crazy life gain.
In deck creation I came up with several orginal Doomsday combos, sadly I choose not to use one of them, one did not work, and the two I ended up using while one is original it is very similar to one that uses victimize. I did quite a bit of googling to see if I had actually original ones just to be sure.
There are two different primary doomsday stacks that win all by them selves assuming you survive the turn after you doomsday and or have enough mana plus a draw card to do it that turn. A preferable alternative way to use doomsday is when you already have one of the stack pieces in your hand as this will let you either add unmask to the stack to assure you don't get countered, and or go off faster with another mana card added to the stack and or using a cheaper draw spell in the stack. There are of course game specific variations that are possible just use your best judgement.
Doomsday Stacks:
5 land + Infernal Contract+Leyline+helm+Cabal ritual+Rain of Flith
Note after casting doomsday sacing 4 swamps+rain+the draw spell is exactly seven which lets you hit cabals threshold. If you have less land but more mana total either rain or Cabal can be substituted for dark ritual.
----
I have cut these two from the 1v1 version of the deck, but still run them in multiplayer.
5 land 1 mana + Moonlit Bargain+Mikaeus+Triskelon+Rain of Flith+Living Death
8 mana + Moonlit Bargain+Mikaeus+Triskelon+ Reanimate+ Shallow Grave
__________________
Onto card selection and why I have chosen the slots I have.
Most of the picks explain themselves or I have already explained.
I choose the discard's I did rather then strong ones from the maybe board because these ones (excluding hymn which is to good not to use) give me control of the discard and a peek at there hand which is quite important when playing against permission.
I choose my version of the classic victimise+bloodghast/skeleton for the Mika combo, because the deck is really cramped for room and it would require another slot or two to use, on top of which I dont regularly have other creatures to sac to victimise. Second It either costs two more mana then mine, or requires you to have a land in your hand. Third Shallow Grave will also work for the ooze combo or with mika+trisk with one of them in hand and the other in the grave. Also I never actually have to choose this combo unless the other two have both been broken. When I am using buried alive its just always better to search for the ooze combo anyways. My version is still listed on the off chance an extremely unlikely scenario occurs where you need it. I choose reanimate/ Shallow Grave over the other ones because they don't fold to enchant removal.
All of the removal the deck kept is less then 3 mana so it can A. act quickly versus aggro and or animar, and B. get around Gaddock Teeg. I favored -x/-x because it gets around indestructible.
__________________
Maybe Board:
Other cards I have considered and either took out or haven't gotten around to testing/couldent find things to take out for them:
1 Blackmail
1 Cabal therapy
1 Mind Shatter
1 Stupor
1 Unburden
1 Wrench Mind
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Paralax Nexus
1 Maze of ith
__________________
Bad Matchups:
I am really proud of this one, it may be my best one yet. Mld and lock decks are the only potential threat. The general answers a lot of meta problems and aggro, the deck combos faster then most other decks(It even has rare turn 1 wins, and fairly consistent turn 5 wins), it can take its time and use discards vs control decks. I feel it has a higher win rate then anything else in the format.
These are matches, many of the competitive generals where able to take me to game 3. This list does not include a few other wins against random crap I cant remember, a lot of wins in multiplier/classic, and of course single round matches where someone leaves before game two.
Match Log:
Dervi 5 wins 1 loss
Prosh 8 win 1 loss
Zur 3 win
Radha 1 win 1 loss
Krenko 1 win
Damia 1 win
Gheist 3 win
kami Cresent Moon 1 win
Thrax 2 win
Mimoplasm 1 win
Syg 1 win
MLD lock Oloro 1 win 1 loss
Control Oloro 1 loss
Combo Oloro, 2 win
Youch's Reanimator Oloro, 1 win
Captain Sissay 3 win
Enchantress Angus 1 win
Enchantress jenara 4 wins, 1 loss
Jenara aggro 1 win 1 loss
Oliva 1 win
Sharoom 2 win
Maelstorm 6 win 3 loss
Nin the Pain artist 3 wins 1 loss(Shoulden't have been a loss, I had the game, played the wrong card from my hand and threw it)
Mld Doran 3 win, 3 loss
Linvala 1 win, 1 loss
Riku 2 win
Karador Ghost Cheiften 4 win
Scion the Ur Dragon 1 win
Azusa 1 win
Gahiji, Honored One 1 win
Omnath 1 loss (Should not be a tough match, but omnath is a very strong and fast general and can surprise you with a good hand)
Tesya- 2 wins
iname 1 win
Skithrax 8 wins, 4 loss
teneb 1 win
Ezuri 1 win
Ishamro 1 win
Child of Alara 1 win
Thalia 1 loss (A match in my favor as its hard for her to recover from field wipes, but she can sometimes lock me out pretty hard, lost both games to null rod and sphere combined)
Purphoros God of the Forge 3 win, 1 loss
Mld Thrun 2 loss 1 win
Ephara, God of the Polis 3 win 2 loss
Wort bogart 2 win
mogis 2 win
xenagos 2 win 1 loss
(While I know hes banned in french, I feel its still relevant to note I have several edric wins :P)
__________________
Epilogue/Looking to improve:
I really feel it has the potential to reach top tier. Any constructive criticism would be appreciated as I am starting to put the finishing touches on it.
__________________
Change Log:
Since posting thread
A funny attempt at doomsday I got so focused on the combo I completely missed something obvious, lets see if it takes you as long as It did me me to figure out what was wrong with it. The best part is I have used it in game more then once and neither me nor my opponent noticed the flaw, he recognized the ooze combo and surrendered. It was not untill I decided to count up my total cmc to see how it would perform in multiplayer did the flaw dawn on me. Anyway here it is:
6-7 mana + Moonlit Bargain+Phyrexian Devourer+Triskelon+Necrotic Ooze+Reanimate/ Shallow Grave
The other doomsday that did not make the cut 7 swamps+Infernal Contract+Basalt+Rings of Brighthearth+Rain of Filth+Exsanguinate/Profane Command
+1 Underworld Connections -1 Infest
+1 Everflowing Chalice, -1 Decree of Pain
+1 Skeletal Scrying, -1 Damnation
+1 Solemn Similcrum, -1 Mutilate
+1 Worn PowerStone, -1 Black Sun Zenith
+1 Fellwar Stone, -1 Chrome Mox
+1 Thran Dynamo, -1 basalt Monolith
+1 Reanimate, -1 Rings of Brighthearth
+1 Exhume, -1 Profane Command
+1 Animate Dead, -1 Exsanguinate
+1 Pithing Needle, -1 Gemstone Array
+1 Moonlit Bargain, -1 Beacon of Unrest
+1 Ad Nauseam, -1 Solemn Similcrum
+1 Greed, -1 Sickening Shoal
+1 Erebos, God of the Dead, -1 Nights Betrayel
+1 Mire's Toll, -1 Pithing Needle
+1 Painful Memories, -1 Buried Ruin
+1 Yawgmoths Will, -1 Animate Dead
+1 Damnation, -1 Ad Nauseam (Unless budgeting is an issue)
+1 Sudden Death, -1 Thran Dynamo
+1 Infest, -1 Powerstone
+1 Peat Bog, -1 Swamp
+1 City of Traitors, -1 Swamp
+1 Ebon Stronghold, -1 Swamp
+1 Crystal Vein, -1 Swamp
+1 Shallow Grave, -1 Exhume (Linvala was a problem)
+1 Lake of the Dead, -1 Temple of the False god
+1 Drown in Sorrow, -1 Infest
+1 Blood Stained Mire -1 swamp
+1 Marsh Flats -1 swamp
+1 Polluted Delta -1 swamp
+1 Verdant Catacombs -1 swamp
+1 Gemstone Caverns -1 swamp
+1 Living Death, -1 Phyrexian Arena
For 1v1 I added two swamps, and an exhume and cut Living Death, Mik and Moonlit Bargain.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
Of if you were refering to this:
[ Deck is still under heavy construction, testing out some major changes, this was just simply the very first skeleton I threw together, currently testing the "less mass removal" I refer to in the thread]
The deck that was posted still had all its mass removal, despite talking about how I did not need it later on.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
One thing I did want to ask about though is the Chalice and the dynamo. Your curve is super low, and even your combos require basically 0 mana to pull off (1 cmc for a reanimate, or 3 mana for doomsday). if you're running that low on required mana to go off, and your cmc is this low, it seems to merit a look at maybe cutting 1-2 of those cards for something like Dark Tutelage, or 1-2 more pieces of mass removal. I understand your general takes that slot most of the time, but Mutilate is the utter stones against a ton of the meta, and Sudden Death just straight answers a ton of threats, especially Zur.
Just my 2 cents. Loved the deck though, can't wait to see how you do ^.^
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics
[Primer]WIsamaru, the Howling BladeW[Primer]
[Primer]BGSkullbriar: From Life, Death Eternal (1v1)GB[Primer]
BGRbighaben and Feverous' Prossh, Skyraider of KherRGB
BGRProssh-Gro (1V1)RGB
I considered tutelage/bob over some of my other draw spells, but they can end up hurting really bad which is hard to afford if I plan on using doomsday, as well as messing up the doomsday stack them selves since i cant control their draw.
Sudden Death is really good, I will try to find room for it, it may end up taking dynamos slot.
Thank you very much for your input.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Having watched it numerous times, I'm impressed by its ability to win out-of-the-blue. The varying, versatile win conditions (which, I admit, I was initially unsure about) makes it much more difficult to stave off.
That being said, I would still consider cutting Mikaeus; he seems a bit clunky and is one of the harder kills to set up (you generally have to spend 12 mana and a tutor I imagine).
Awesome deck regardless, and glad to see it doing well. :] Best of luck!
Asmira, Holy Avenger (French EDH)
I upload Duel Commander match replays to my YouTube channel
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Which should say enough about me wanting to post about this deck.
Competitive: Check
Creative: Check
Consistent: Check
I actually enjoyed getting beaten by it. Good work!
Also, the thread about 'casual' players/games was legit.
Well written. Great deck.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyDecks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
i love the moonlight bargain + reanimate combo, did you think that up yourself? one of the most innovative doomsday piles i've seen in awhile.
next time i'll play my talrand against you for the stats, it's a shame you don't have any matches against it yet
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira