MTG Salvation

Hey everyone. I just finished up my second tournament up at Get Your Game On in Ann Arbor, Michigan and I thought I'd take the time to sit down and post up my list. I was in the top 8 at the last tournament (12/7/2013) and sadly lost to Derevi twice. It was rough.

Anyway! Why did I pick Thalia, Guardian of Thraben you ask? Well, here is the easy answer: Because she is awesome.
No, but seriously. The fact she herself has a tax for non-creature spells is just enough to beat up the control meta I have been playing in lately. This deck isn't built around that tax theme though. I tried it at the beginning but I really didn't like how the deck grooved and it really wasn't my play style. Once I took out cards like Hokori, Dust Drinker, Tangle Wire, and Glowrider, I really discovered how I like to play the deck. Aggro.

There is also a common theme with this deck that is also seen with white in general: Soldiers and Humans. While I do have 41 (including Thalia) creatures in this deck, 15 of them are the Soldier creature type, and many soldier token generators. Once I realized there were quite a few soldiers in my deck, I wanted to help them out a little, and with the addition of Field Marshal, I have been able to buff a lot of my smaller weenies such as Soldier of the Pantheon and Elite Vanguard and I like that Precinct Captain, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and Kjeldoran Outpost also make soldier tokens as they get the buff from Field Marshal. Sadly I had to take out Preeminent Captain (for Militia's Pride) because it seemed that all of my soldiers that could be used for Preeminent Captain are mostly 1 drop creatures like Goldmeadow Harrier or Gideon's Lawkeeper.

Well, that is the general gist of this deck: very fast and puts on the pressure early. If anyone has any comments about the deck or any ideas for how I could make it better, I'd love to hear them. I'm considering typing up a tournament report for the last tournament (I played against Ezuri, Nin, Derevi (twice), and Radha) and posting it. Had some really interesting games yesterday.

OUT:

IN:

RESULTS:

Thanks for reading!
~Lexie9894

EDIT: Hey guys, thanks for all of the input! I've ordered the cards mentioned in this thread that I want to put in (updating as I get them) and just wanted to thank everyone.
Also, for those interested, I think the next Duel Commander Tournament at Get Your Game On will be January 18, 2014. So all of you who are close enough to Ann Arbor, Michigan, you should get your deck and come on down! The event always starts at noon. Make sure to mark your calendar if you are near Michigan!

NOTE: They day DID CHANGE for this tournament, so if you plan on going please know that the date is now the 18th instead of the 11th.

Thanks!

I don't really know your meta, but why Day of Judgment and not Wrath of God?

I can't really comment on how effective the card choices are, because white weenie is a strange animal in DC; I don't really know much about how it plays, but I can offer some suggestions for possible inclusions if you want to replace anything that doesn't seem to be working.

I imagine your deck is super vulnerable to wrath effects, since you don't have the colors for decent card draw. Rootborn Defenses seems like it would be a good countermeasure to board wipes. Especially if your meta is control-heavy.

Martial Coup seems like it would be good.

Not sure how much mileage you've gotten out of the Loyal Sentry effect, but if you want another one, there's Alaborn Zealot, who is also a 1-drop soldier.

Frontline Medic and Odric, Master Tactician seem like they'd be very good. At least the Medic. Resistance Fighter could be a good utility option against some matchups. Crusader of Odric is a solid beater when you're playing lots of cheap creatures. Aysen Crusader has been errata'ed to read "soldiers and warriors" instead of "heroes," so she's kind of a less slow Benalish Commander, but 4-cmc needs to be pretty impressive in this sort of deck, and I doubt she's worth it. Though I guess vanilla creatures are good here as long as they're efficient. Daring Skyjeck might be good power value and his Battalion would probably proc every turn.

How has Cataclysm worked out for you? It seems like it would be less good in a white weenie deck because the one creature your opponent keeps will probably be bigger than your one creature. I guess if your opponent's board is almost empty, it'll be good. But I get the sense that you want it more the land effect than anything else, right?

Auriok Steelshaper seems like something you could try. Loxodon Gatekeeper has the advantage of being a soldier, and also seems like he'd be good for slowing down opponents' blockers. Stonehewer Giant is expensive, but if he sticks he's a one-card combo.

Token generators? Raise the Alarm?

Some valid points made there.

Why Day of Judgment? Well, I just haven't picked up a Wrath of God yet or I'd put it in right now. ;P I just can't find one and I'm probably going to have to order it online.

Rootborn Defenses is okay, but hard for me to justify since it is an instant and costs one more. Also doesn't stop Infest and Toxic Deluge, but what can I really do about that? But you are right, the deck is turbo vulnerable to wraths. While I'm on the topic of instants, Martial Coup would be tough to put in because a) Thalia's tax, and b) I don't run a lot of lands because my deck stops functioning if I have mana flood. I can function on two lands, and win on 2 lands (i'd rather have 3 or 4, but you know), but if I'm sitting on 7 lands and 2 creatures I've already lost.

I don't know what I think about Auriok Steelshaper. I honestly wouldn't mind trying it, but with only 4 (not counting Skullclamp because that murders him) equipments I don't know how effective it would be.
EDIT: Can't read a card, but he makes Skullclamp free, which is kind of awesome. And Jitte/Swords cost 1 to equip... seems okay.

Also, in the past I have tried Odric, Master Tactician, multiple times in fact, but he never seemed to shine. Maybe I always had him in my hand at the wrong time, but it never seemed to work out right. Maybe I'll try him again sometime in the future. On that note, I should either put Crusader of Odric or Frontline Medic in, but probably Crusader over Medic because the turns I want my dudes to be indestructible are usually my opponents turn, not my own because of all of the wrath effects. Usually if I'm going into a match that is in the color for wraths, I try to play around them, or at least have a plan for after the wipe so I can rebuild fast.

Hmm.. what else. Oh, Loyal Sentry hasn't done much yet, as I rarely draw him, but when I do people seem to be afraid of him and they waste their removal on a 1/1 instead of Hero of Bladehold so that can't be bad, lol. So I might be considering to put Alaborn Zealot because I like that one more. I mean come on, it's from Portal.

Last point to make out, I love Cataclysm and I'm really upset at the tournament yesterday I didn't play it when I should have and it lost me a game against Derevi. Usually the card is also 100% to my favor and just helps seal a game. Only time it hurt a little bit was when my opponent was hellbent and he ripped Maze of Ith off the top. Literally pure luck he had that game....

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Thalia tax. Duh. Should have kept that in mind when suggesting non-creatures.

I'm tempted to say that Stonehewer Giant is even better with Thalia because he can fetch up equipment and put it onto the field without incurring the tax (and without your opponent being able to counter it), but 5-CMC seems a bit risky, and unfortunately he's not a solider so you can't cheat him in with Preeminent Captain.

Haha, seems like a lot of people do. ;P

I had one game at last month's tournament where a Vendillion Clique deck tried to mystical tutor at the end of the turn after I played Thalia. He forgot about the tax and did it during his turn. It was really funny.

But I think I actually am going to at least add Alaborn Zealot because I love cards with that effect and consistency is pro.

So, I built a very similar deck the thread to which is on this forum somewhere. I ran more tax cards than you do in an otherwise aggro shell, but I'm not sure there's a great deal of merit to that, especially as the meta has shifted away from harder forms of control a bit.

However, I still have some critiques.

Sun Titan, while an amazing bomb, seems like just too much mana for you--I ran 34/5 lands and didn't run anything over four mana, but you have only 32. You'll very rarely get to cast him even if you draw him. I wouldn't bother.

Forbidding Watchtower is deceptive. Manlands feel aggro, but they CIPT and Forbidding Watchtower in particular is very passive, as a 1/5. Even Genju of the Fields is better, and it's bad. Don't run the Watchtower.

Wing Shards - Way too passive. Relies on your opponent attacking. You shouldn't have too much trouble with most opposing aggro decks anyway.

Reverent Mantra I don't like because white has no card advantage, and the loss of the card can hurt pretty badly. And you'll never want to play it for 4. Brave the Elements is usually better if you want this effect somewhere. It's also more one-sided (saves only your side from Pyroclasm, e.g.).

Secluded Steppe - This is for slow decks. Your deck is not slow. Plains are better. Or more fetchlands.

Buried Ruin, Tower of the Magistrate - Problematic as you are very color-intense and often don't have a use for colorless mana. I don't see what major benefit they give you that overcomes that. There aren't that many artifacts in here, and there aren't really any artifact or artifact creature threats I can think of. Again, basic Plains are probably better. Rishadan Port and the Strip Mine effects are much more playable.

Day of Judgment - Why? If you have to wrath, you've already lost.

Disenchant - 99% of the time, Revoke Existence is better. Same goes for Seal of Cleansing.

Cataclysm - As you noted, really risky. I wouldn't even consider it in a decentralized deck like this. Your opponent's commander is much more likely to be a singular threat than any one of your creatures is.


No suggestions for new cards, but I'm recommend filling up on a few more creatures. 41 is a bit of a low count for an aggro deck.

Again, more good points.

So far with Sun Titan, I have been able to resolve him almost every time I have him. For some reason, I usually get enough lands/have enough lands for him and he is super useful post-wrath. Sun Titan is the one BIG bomb I have in this deck and is super versatile.

I'm still trying out Forbidding Watchtower, but a lot of people have told me it is bad. But it is a manland that produces white which is basically why it is in there at the moment. It might come out if I find something better, but right now he is a) a relevant creature type, b) survives post wraths, and c) can still carry a sword. If I find something better to replace it I probably will. But I'm a fan of man lands, and especially man lands that produce colors. That being said, I probably will be replacing Secluded Steppe with a Plains because, since I have a low land count, I almost always play it instead of cycle it (when I draw it, which is almost never).

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with Wing Shards. I feel like I don't have enough removal to deal with decks like Zur the Enchanter or Thraximundar when it comes down to it, and that is why I am running it. Mostly Zur.

I've just put in Reverent Mantra and have just been testing it out, and it's been alright other than the card disadvantage. I just didn't realize Brave the Elements existed and I'm just bad. Probably going to pick that up and run it instead.

I think I also might pitch Buried Ruin as it hasn't really ever been useful. I'd rather get a sword/jitte back with Sun Titan. But I'm a fan of Tower of the Magistrate. It keeps counters off of Umezawa's Jitte, and I like that a lot. Because Jitte is practically a board wipe to my little weenies.

I feel like if I have at least one wrath, Day of Judgment or Wrath of God then it can maybe help with things like Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, or can get rid of the horde Iname, Death Aspect brings, or can even the playing field if my creatures get Volcanic Fallouted to death.

I think I might just add Revoke Existence to the deck because I hate all artifacts forever (Jitte). Disenchant is at least instant speed, Seal of Cleansing keeps it in their hand and they never play it, and then Revoke Existence just makes it go away.

Uhhh.. what else. Yeah, I'm still a fan of Cataclysm. Most of the time it wins me the game, and I should've played it yesterday, but I'm just dumb.


Again, thanks for all of the feed back! It's helping good ol' Thalia out already. ;P

On another note about Wing Shards. I think I might put Darksteel Mutation in instead of Wing Shards because if I enchant the opponent's general either a) they have to find some way to remove the enchantment, give -1/-1 to their creature, or find a way to sacrifice their creature, thus wasting the removal on their own guys instead of mine. And since the enchantment makes the creature indestructible, it is much harder to get rid of since most people use destroy creature effects and don't run as much enchantment removal.

As someone who has played Thalia a lot as well (Cuivienen and I have talked a lot about the deck in his thread), let me tell you Watchtower is indeed terrible. I played it out of necessity because I didn't own a Mutavault to go with my Mishra's. Once I got Muta though, it was a snap upgrade.

I feel like your threats are too low in number. I play around the forty-seven number and have been satisfied thus far.

I also feel like Cataclysm should be Ravages of War instead.

As a matter of fact, let me get you the list I have on Magic Online right quick. IIRC, it is Duel-Commander ready.

edit: Looking at my list, I was still playing Winter Orb. RIP ol' buddy, you will be missed. You can swap it for either Bonesplitter or Black Vise, depending on personal preference (Vise is soooooo good on t1, but the ol' "Rusty Axe" gets a lot of mileage - perhaps more than it rightfully should, but holy crap is it efficient).

This list is not organized as I pulled it directly from my .dek files, but it's a fine resource to get you on the right track.

Quote from Lexie9894

On another note about Wing Shards. I think I might put Darksteel Mutation in instead of Wing Shards because if I enchant the opponent's general either a) they have to find some way to remove the enchantment, give -1/-1 to their creature, or find a way to sacrifice their creature, thus wasting the removal on their own guys instead of mine. And since the enchantment makes the creature indestructible, it is much harder to get rid of since most people use destroy creature effects and don't run as much enchantment removal.

Darksteel Mutation is playable, but Journey to Nowhere seems like it would usually be better, especially in an aggro deck like this one. That indestructible blocker could get annoying otherwise. It's weaker against Commanders, though, as you point out. I haven't played at all since Darksteel Mutation (or, maybe more importantly, Derevi) came out, so it might be better than JtN, but food for thought.

I guess my only argument against that is that the Darksteel mutation makes your opponent use their own resources to get their general back (because let's face it. It will usually be played on your opponents general because they don't have the option to send it to the general zone).

Only downside is that it doesn't get rid of Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. But that is why I have Wrath of God/Day of Judgment/Oblivion Ring, right? lol.

I organized my post for you, if it helps.

I was about suggest Kataki War's Wage... But I'm in conflict with Darksteel Mutation.

@ 3drinks It does help, actually.

Mirror Entity Wut. This is a card? I am going to need to pick one up. Makes weenies become huge really fast, and makes everything a soldier! ;P Yay relevant creature type!

Also, as much as I'd LOVE to use Ravages of War I don't have $300 for 1 card.

And last thing, I just need to find a Tithe, lol. Such a cool card though.

@ Arcadus

I've had Kataki, War's Wage in there before as well, but it doesn't seem to do much in my opinion and I'm trying to steer away from the tax effect side of Thalia. It makes the game too slow for how I have her built.

I also think I might try Darksteel Mutation for the time being instead of Wing Shards and if it doesn't work too well just change it out for Journey to Nowhere.

Quote from Lexie9894

@ 3drinks It does help, actually.

Mirror Entity Wut. This is a card? I am going to need to pick one up. Makes weenies become huge really fast, and makes everything a soldier! ;P Yay relevant creature type!

Also, as much as I'd LOVE to use Ravages of War I don't have $300 for 1 card.

And last thing, I just need to find a Tithe, lol. Such a cool card though.

@ Arcadus

I've had Kataki, War's Wage in there before as well, but it doesn't seem to do much in my opinion and I'm trying to steer away from the tax effect side of Thalia. It makes the game too slow for how I have her built.

I also think I might try Darksteel Mutation for the time being instead of Wing Shards and if it doesn't work too well just change it out for Journey to Nowhere.

Yea. Mirror Entity is pretty redonkulous. And Tithe is fricken awesome man. Crack a fetch and in response Tithe, or crack Wasteland and cast it in response. Amazing. Lol.

I play on MODO where Ravages is easily affordable (like Imp Seal, G-Tutour heh).

I like Kataki, though she/he/it is a meta choice. When it's good, it's scoop-inducing though (and hilarious with artifact lands xD).

Hello ! Nice White Weenie deck you have there

I'd try to find room for icatian javelineers (soldier) and militia's pride (put soldier tokens).

@ zwouip

I need to find room for Militia's Pride for sure. That card seems super good with Mentor of the Meek, too. o.o

I don't really know what I think about Icatian Javelineers. They really don't seem to do much in my deck. I'd much rather have a one drop with two power that brings beats vs him. Unlike my 1/1 1 drops now, (such as Weathered Wayfarer) his abilities are only good once, not numerous times.

That being said, I need to get my hands on a copy of Militia's Pride.

I recently built a Thalia List
A couple cards I highly recommend are:
Cavern of Souls obviously helps fight counters, can be tutored with wayfarer.
Maze of Ith at the cost of a land drop, this lets you alpha into their general or board without losing a creature, or losing on the swing back. Countless number of times it allows you to get in damage without losing board pressure, once again tutorable with wayfarer
Azorius Arrester This can blank their bomb for a turn, allowing you to alpha, It is also a human soldier, meaning it pumps Champion of the Perish and is droppable with Preeminent Captain
If your meta is filled with Zur(mine is sadly), Soltari Visionary, and War Priest of Thune help the match up a lot.

On my list I already do have Cavern of Souls. Naming Human every time, lol.

Also, with Maze of Ith I have two issues. 1) I don't own the card. 2) It doesn't produce mana with would be a huge issue in my deck. All of my lands have to produce mana, because I only run 32 of them. If I have a plains and Maze of Ith, I can't drop any of my two drops. I don't feel like Maze of Ith is the best addition to my deck for those two reasons.

I feel like Azorius Arrester isn't that great, and here is why. It only detains once. If it said something like, "every time it did combat damage to a player" sure. But it's pretty much a vanilla 2/1 for 1W. If I'm going to have a vanilla 2/1, it better cost W.

And our meta has like, 2 Zur's (I think?) and I used to have War Priest of Thune in this deck, but I didn't think it was versatile enough. Every time I played it it was because I needed a dude and I almost never blew up an enchantment. Again, I don't want vanilla 2/2's costing 1W. I have the same thought about Soltari Visionary as well.