MTG Salvation

Hm. A 3CMC walker is good but I'm not sure about her in this deck either. We have a ton of 3cmc stuff and she doesn't do much on her own. Not bad but I wouldn't call her an auto-include.

Really like the W/R man-land. Double strike + Marath counters adds up quickly. Probably going to include it over the G/W manland I'm currently running.

Thoughts?

I run Raging Ravine and Treetop Village. I'll give this one a shot. Idk how I feel about a RW etbt land though. No green hurts but it does have red so there's that.

I agree that Oath of Nissa deserves testing. Not as good as a T1 dork but the next best thing! Nissa herself looks decent (that -2 could be a bomb for only 3 mana?). The others I'm not sure about but would love to hear your results in testing once they are released.

Nissa, Voice of Zendikar is good. At 3-mana she's a big threat to draw a bunch of cards which is something we are notoriously bad at. Also a good topdeck many times. On T2 vs. non-red control she can be pretty intimidating. I've slotted in Oath of Nissa also but haven't gotten to play it yet. Any others testing little Nissa?

Okay, after more testing, Nissa is not just good, she is a MUST include in this deck. Anybody else feel the same/differently about her? She protects herself and left unchecked after T2/3, grows a huge army. I have not even ulimate'd with her even though I've gotten to 7 loyalty because she is that versitile and good. I completely and totally underrated her when spoiled. Glad I have one coming through Pucatrade already! Oath of Nissa is okay. Not 100 percent sold but worth it atm.

What did you cut for Nissa?

Well, I'm not sure exactly what I cut...here's my decklist though.



Having problems running out of gas and an empty hand...that's why I have flip Nissa and both Yavimayas along with Wood Elves.

Oath of Nissa I think could be replaced with Mirri's Guile though it is card disadvantage. Idk. Really thinking about the temples to improve dead draws.

Other iffy cards are VoR, Dauntless Escort...just not sure what's missing. I had Huntmaster of the Fells and really enjoyed him. Titania, Protector of Argoth is good. I know I don't use Earthcraft either...never works out for me.

Does Purphy come back in? Hmmm idk. Does Skyshroud Elf take an exit due to lack of 2cmc dorks (and rightfully so since you're going to be playing a 5CMC with it on T3, ideally and I'm more worried about T2.)

Does Wheel of Fortune deserve testing?

Is Thalia, Guardian of Thraben good enough on the draw? Gorgon's Head? Farhaven Elf better than flip Nissa in most cases?

We also have Boros Charm. Mina and Denn, Wildborn help not only with getting damage through but can also reset a Cavern to a relevant type (read: Shaman).

No I don't use Yisan. Too mana intensive for me. Yes yes I get that he gets Mom and combos but he requires huge investments.

Evolutionary Leap is good but I always seem to get it with SotF and it's just awkward. Not big on Enlightened Tutor. Card disadvantage and we don't have enough DIFFERENT targets in my opinion (maybe if we ran O-ring, Song of the Dryads, etc.). I'd like Sword of Feast and Famine back too but not sure.

I change my deck every day. Like it but need to figure out a better more consistent strategy.

Catacylsm unbanned?? Anything else (I don't have Facebook)? That's seems crazy as it doesn't hurt Tas at all but does help Ana/Doran and more importantly, Narset. Wow. Def doesn't help us but is it back breaking? Remains to be seen.

edit--okay I see the rest now. Nerotic Ooze could be sweet to lose. Tas is red. Expected. Cataclysm is such an odd choice tho. Does Sigarda have a place in our deck now?

edit--and Yisan seems weird on Orange. He's not oppressive at all in my opinion?

I have been playing Marath for awhile on MTGO, and I do not see any use in most of the Oath cards. I am however thinking of using Bonds of Mortality, not sure of anything else.

Bonds isn't for this deck IMO because it doesn't do anything aside from replace itself vs. many or most matchups; who aside from Narset is giving you trouble?

I also wasn't crazy for Oath of Nissa; I'd 90/100 times want to play a CIPT land on T1 if I didn't have a dork (most important generally) or Mother of Runes (can steal games vs some decks). Then T2 I want (in GENERAL) Marath, wood elves-type cards, Birthing Pod (on the play, it's often gg), or answers like Rec Sage, Fiend Hunter, Collar, etc. It's just kinda awkward; same reasons Mirri's Guile isn't great here (well and that one is actually disadvantage). There's that AND it doesn't even interact with creatures (ours or opponents) which is always good due to 40+ of them here; Evolutionary Leap is disadvantage at first but makes recovering from Wraths/removal easier and makes them that much worse for the opponent, for example (and i don't play Leap right now, it's a fringe card that's in and out).

I've seen this card in very few decks but was inspired to try it after seeing Blink play it in a game on CT (first time I'd seen it played): Slayers' Stronghold (no tags on phone, sorry!) Its' ability is so insanely undercosted and it doesn't even CIPT!!! Very worth the add and thanks Blink!

I like it just because I have some issues with a few Sigarda decks, and every now and then Sisay. But it will probably not make it into the list, the main issue I have is just the shuffler online can just be pure hate.

@nokulture-- will reply in more detail when I get to my computer but I agree about the PWs--for the most part. I JUST took out Xenagos; sure the satyr's are helpful when you have an aggro boardstate and are just swinging in for a couple turns or killing an PW but his + can't get me another spell off that turn often enough or i have an empty board. Of course his ultimate wins the game but it doesn't happen often. Garruk Wildspeaker--haven't run him for a long while. Good with Cradle and past that, he's a 4-drop where I'd much rather be doing something else.

What I'm running now is new 3cmc Nissa and I will NEVER consider taking her out. She is super super good and dominates games when played on T2 or T3. Also, Domri Rade. I personally don't feel strongly about him but on the plus side, he also costs 3 which is enough to make him fringe. I'd consider taking him back out agaim; even with Courser/Oracle synergy, that doesn't happen nearly enough.

Other than those...Big Garruk and "lol100life* Ajani are the other options I guess. Both are great cards but that is why they cost 6 and 5, respectively; we don't want too much of that and what we do want that's that expensive we want to be even better (aka Prime Time, some who run Elesh Norn, Craterhoof, etc.).

Responding in PC shortly...

Ok finally able to finish my post @nokulture.

As for Tasigur MU, sometimes you just get unlucky (and sometimes, a lot of times!) and they get ridiculous draws. I've found the best way to beat him is removing him 2 times immediately. Then it becomes difficult to cast even with Delve. Of course, Scavenging Ooze is an all-star but you can't count on him due to the mass wipes; that's why Gaddock Teeg is very good here, too. He deals not only with most sweepers (Toxic Deluge will never be beat lol) but some card draw and Upheaval as well.

If he gets Life from the Loam going early, it's very difficult. Overextending without a Boros Charm or something to get value out of creature death triggers (Voice of Resurgence token can be huge 1. because Cradle still taps for mana and 2. he'll still have to be dealt with; sometimes he just gets big and you win) is a no-no so play your planeswalkers (haha, ironic) and enchantments while he's got open mana. ANOTHER SHAMELESS PLUG FOR Nissa, Voice of Zendikar who absolutely LOVES this matchup.

Mina and Denn, Wildborn: as everyone pointed out when I first saw the card, Oracle and Courser are there for card quality and with nine fetches and tutors galore those two shine here. M&D don't do that. You're likely to be playing it on T3 or T4 in a vacuum. So you probably already have three or four lands out meaning there are but so many cards in your hand and if you have spare lands in your hand then you do not have threats or win-cons. Now, I will say, it's certainly not bad I don't feel. The large body is very helpful and the ability has some really neat tricks available for abuse. Finally, the trample is very relevant.

Solid card but I feel for the same CMC, I'd play Huntmaster of the Fells (whom I have run in the past}; he serves a totally different purpose though but his is value. Token on ETB is great, 2 life is great, Pod-into-5 drop is great, Resto and Kiki with him are great, flipping him is gravy and the Huntmaster is even better against control. I think we can do better than him but in a control-meta, value is good so that not everything is a 1 or 2 for 1. And after all that, I'd not recommend playing him unless you have a flex spot you need to fill at 4 CMC or something.

Aside from that, looking at your deck you run a lot of stock pieces which of course are staples. I play Nature's Claim over Harmonic Sliver because even though HS is a creature which is extremely relevant (at relevant 3CMC), one mana at instant speed is so sweet and I personally feel it's just that good. Some don't play it. Personal preference. Don't play Reflecting Pool because it can break many otherwise good explosive hands. Cinder Glade isn't good here because although it's another RG and fetchable target, it will CIPT too often with no addt'l upside on ETB.

Ivy League Denizen isn't bad but again, I think we can do better. Interesting number of big beaters. Depending on the meta, Sigarda could be fine but I don't think Inferno Titan and/or Sun Titan are worth it; you gotta consider Birthing Pod targets for every card in this deck and we have none for them and they're really just goodstuff. Of course they will be good when you get em out but too often they'll ruin hands early and mid game.

Sylvan Safekeeper? I personally don't feel its protection capabilities are worth sac'ing a land or "combo"-ing with Titania alone. We love our lands.

Too tired now but tomorrow...I'll post my thoughts on @zkopce's post.

Finally for the night, remember that in order for the deck to get better, cards have to be taken out and every single card we play is a good card which means sometimes you're going to have to take out a good card in order to make room for a great one.

Quote from Moondust »

*decklist*

I'm still feeling so bad about the way I played game 3 in the quarter final. Hopefully I'll learn a lesson !

l hope you can answer me a couple of questions about your list. lt's very yisan-like in the sense of trying to dump as much mana on to the table to gain advantage, but l wanted to know why certain cards were chosen.

l see you chose not to run any manlands and no kessig wolf run in favor of bouncelands and Slayers' Stronghold. We saw the interactions of Bouncelands wth Cavern of Souls and Gaea's Cradle but why Stronghold?

Also, any reason as to why you moved away from the usual combos you run in Marath? They are sorta of a free win sometimes and karmic guide interacts so well with survival of the fittest and Craterhoof behemoth.

Quote from Bal »

balangaz, with enough mana you can fetch Slayer's Stronghold + Bounce land with Primeval Titan, bounce stronghold, replay it right away and give Titan haste to attack for 2 more lands.
Azusa, Mina and Denn, and Oracle of Mul Daya help for this kind of plan of course.

Thanks for sharing the list Moondust, it looks fun!

l can see how that's used as it once played in Modern Bloom but I think it's not with "enough" mana. It's with "a lot of" mana... 6 manas for the titan + the land drop to play Slayers' and 2 more mana to activate it. That looks very different. Wonder how many times it was useful.

Had the chance to watch this deck play on stream 2 times.. cradle did A LOT of the heavy lifting.. He would go wide with marath to ensure his cradle was tapping for more mana then he needed very quickly.

Quote from Moondust »

*decklist*

I'm still feeling so bad about the way I played game 3 in the quarter final. Hopefully I'll learn a lesson !

I really liked the idea of the bounce lands and am looking forward to try something similar with Prossh.

Some questions for you (I am really interested in the first one):
- How did you feel about Sakura-Tribe Scout and Skyshroud Ranger?
- How often did you actually play Genesis Wave and Primal Surge?
- What were the cards you tutored most?

Cheers

l would prefer if he was the one that answer our questions, and not that we tried to guess and respond to each others questions... But thank you all that tried.

When i see this type of deck making top 8 in a big event i ask myself if people uses board wype in france

Quote from Tutussaurorex »

When i see this type of deck making top 8 in a big event i ask myself if people uses board wype in france

Well, Marath does quite the job.

Although, their can be other strategies where wipe is not necessary with "all in" strategies.
For instance, in my PSZ, I focus on my winning combo and play stuff like Man-o'-War for the tempo which are still in my game plan.
In my Prossh, I focus on getting Emrakul or Worldspine Wurm out ASAP to turn the table around, hence, I focus on draw and tutor.

Those strategies can be a little risky but you can gain a lot in speed; my PSZ can win at turn 3, against non-control deck, I regularly do turn 4-5 win

Quote from Maelstr0m »

Quote from Tutussaurorex »

When i see this type of deck making top 8 in a big event i ask myself if people uses board wype in france

Well, Marath does quite the job.

Although, their can be other strategies where wipe is not necessary with "all in" strategies.
For instance, in my PSZ, I focus on my winning combo and play stuff like Man-o'-War for the tempo which are still in my game plan.
In my Prossh, I focus on getting Emrakul or Worldspine Wurm out ASAP to turn the table around, hence, I focus on draw and tutor.

Those strategies can be a little risky but you can gain a lot in speed; my PSZ can win at turn 3, against non-control deck, I regularly do turn 4-5 win

excuse me, but what is PSZ? and you are regularly winning on t4-5?

Prim Speaker Zegana. Against non control deck, yes, against control, of course it takes a little more time. UG has many tutors and ramp and PSZ makes you draw tons.

hey guys does anybody in here believe that marath will be using any of the new cards from shadows over innistrad.

what about arlinn kord. dustwatch recruiter, hermit of the natterknolls and cryptolith rite