I have been tweaking my deck a little bit, I have been having some trouble against heavy blue decks. I've already picked up a Vexing Shusher to add, but what do you all think of the following cards: Savage Summoning - It seems alright, but I think it will prove to be too narrow/situational in testing. I am going to test it out regardless. I think if it cantripped it would be much better, however. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - Seems good as it does not effect many of our spells; however the ones it does effect might be too much at an extra 1. Plus is kills Geist without dying.
Also, I have to ask: is Voice of Resurgence really as good as it looks? I know everyone runs it, and I was looking at picking one up, but I'd like to read how it ends up working in practice.
Thanks, everyone.
I want to say the same as Squarlsquad. Savage Summoning : Can't search for it, so its just a one-of in a 99 card deck, not good enough imo. But, I to have a blue dominated meta.. I put in vexing shusher and it helped me in a few matches. But Voice of Resurgence is very good! (If you remember your trickers )
I run Thalia as well, but often shes just a 2/1 that don't do much, unless you are on the play, then she is magical.
How about Omnath, Locus of Rage ? I know its a 7 drop (and i don't play 7 drops in my list) but 7 mana isn't a problem to cast.. Makes all our Marath tokens + Marath himself death into 3 dmg. ? (EDIT: plus its also incounterble with Cavern of Souls already on elemental for Marath)
What's your opinion?
Thanks for the comments, all. I'll be picking up a VoR as soon as I can.
My thoughts on Omnath, Locus of Rage are that I think Titania, Protector of Argoth is a much better option for a similar slot. Has an impact as soon as she hits the board, can grab a fetch to trigger herself, or a destroyed Gaea's Cradle/Cavern/what have you, and costs two mana less for the same power; Omnath doesn't even have trample and RR can be hard to hit since most builds are typically only splash red. I was thinking of putting in Titania for a more midrangey option, and someone a couple pages back had some success with her. She is also an elemental and interacts with Cavern in the same way The second ability on Omnath might prove to be better than I am thinking though, so I'd definitely try him out if you think he could be successful, I just think he's rather high on the curve.
Also, Omnath would not trigger on a Marath death since she wouldn't ever go to the graveyard if you decide to send her back to the command zone, sadly.
I saw a list of MTG TOP 8 with sneak attack. What do you think about this card in the deck. I think the combo would be faster. I also think it would be dead bye the time.
How far am I into my own head if I plan to replace Primeval Titan with Greenwarden of Murasa? Since Woodland Bellower came out, I find myself almost never ever wanting to cast or fetch good ol' Prime Time, preferring the Bellower+Eternal Witness/Fauna Shaman/Voice of Resurgence/Reclamation Sage thing. And a double Witness on a stick looks really appealing to me in the "must outgrind every grindy deck" plan.
I think Greenwarden of Murasa definitely deserves some testing. But it you play Gaea's Cradle then I don't think it's better than Primeval Titan. I don't have Cradle so I don't play Titan. Warden definitely looks like fun shenanigans to me.
Question: Is a morph creatures CMC 3? I'm looking at Ashcloud Phoenix and wondering if I can sac it to Birthing Pod for Zealous Conscripts then sac it again for Restoration Angel, bounce Conscripts, then sac Resto for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Does that work? Edit: no it does not work, the CMC for a morph is 0. But it would work if I paid the morph cost and sac'd it again for Kiki Jiki. So, sac it, morph it, sac it. Thats 8 mana and 6 life, not that hard to come by for us. Although it is 12 mana if we do it the turn Phoenix comes into play.....hmm has anyone tried this at all is it too cute?
No, i think Bellower (and Primeval Titan) is too strong in this deck and stronger than Murasa. When you cast Bellower you can take Eternal Witness
Murasa is a little bit slow and often you can't use his really potential.
I agree. So you're planning to run all 3 when you test then?
@shogun omega: Ashcould Phoenix comes back face-down, which means it's a CMC0 creature.
Yes I know, but I've decided to test Ashcloud anyway as I can still make the combo work if I can pay his morph cost. I feel like this deck would really benefit from a Murderous Redcap type card but our options are very limited. Ashcloud PhoenixHeartmenderHound of Griselbrand, are the only ones I know of that will work in that slot. Ashcloud is the best of those 3 imo, so I'll give it a try for a while.
Guys, this deck I'm running is a thing. It is extremely powerful and I think has many many advantages over the "traditional" build. It is way too easy to combo with Rebirth if you can't get the Kiki win fast enough. Again control, Rector gets Survival instead of Rebirth. This is the new direction of the Marath deck, I'm sure of it. Some choices may be more iffy than others but overall it works. Play Benevolent Bodyguard over Mother of Runes too. Better x1000000. This is not if or maybe; this IS the better deck.
Please help finalize my final few tweaks!! I feel the weakest cards are Oracle of Mul Daya (actually, NEED to replace with something better), Nissa (not bad but not great), and O-Ring (Song of Dryads/Council's Judgment? Idk, it may just need to stay). I also don't think Crucible is vital but it's not bad. Just not what I want to play at 3 mana. It curves really badly.
I LOVE it cause it doesn't have to be all-in on the combo! E-tutor--maybe, though I don't want card disadvantage. And I never liked Splinter Twin here. Not enough good targets too often. I'll consider each tho. I'm think Aven Mindcensor for Oracle.
edit-I think I'll try Aven Mindcensor for Oracle and Evolutionary Leap for Crucible. I know, I know, Crucible is good but again, curves terribly.
You may be right but Splinter Twin only combos with Bell Ringer (though it does give other value with ETB/LTB creatures). I can see not playing Emrakul due to being uncastable otherwise. Elesh Norn stays either way cause it's castable. EOT Emrakul is gonna win 90% of the time. I mean even Kiki combo doesn't even win 100% of the time when it's assembled!! I think the benefits outweight the negatives. Rector is fetchable with Imperial Recruiter too AND can grab Survival or Library, or, if you choose to run it, Twin too! If you don't play Emrakul that's probably fine; replacing it with something big but castable/useful (idk, Vorinclex or something?) could be an option or even with Splinter Twin. But I think no question Pattern of Rebirth deserves a spot here.
edit--ok instead of Emrakul I'm going to be testing Inferno Titan, Vorinclex, Sun Titan, and maybe Avacyn or Iona. Ah Woodfall Primus is a good one too.
edit 2--I forgot to mention all I really had to take out was the elf package being Priest of Titania, Devoted Druid & Skyshroud Elf (which are all 2CMC dorks without Priest) and Courser (which doesn't ramp and dies to even more removal than most creatures). Idk, I'm REALLY liking the testing so far. I feel it has given the deck much more consistency and much better top decks and substance rather than dork after dork mid to late game which sucks without Survival/Fauna/etc. I would like to put Stoneforge back in for Skullclamp though...
Ok so it's been a few days now and I've made change after change after change and Lyserg and Blink, you've given GREAT insight. Here is the list which shows where I'm at atm.
Couple key points and/or interactions:
1. Academy Rector is AWESOME here. If I have a sac outlet or am triggering in response to a wipe, I’ll typically get Pattern of Rebirth. I have come to the realization (as have you guys) that grabbing a combo piece is typically going to have much more impact though sometimes you need to just get some utility in Linvala/Teeg and of course, Prime Time will be a target when combo isn’t an option.
2. Pattern will not be Rector’s only good target 99% of the time! A Library or Survival can be crucial and that is actually also the reason which I’ve included Song of the Dryads (I like it over Oblivion Ring) but more importantly, Splinter Twin will enable the combo win many times. Splinter Twin on Eternal Witness/Imperial Recruiter/Prime Time/Reveillark/Karmic Guide/etc. is great as well.
3. High Market is good. Doesn’t hurt the mana base, provides an easy sac outlet which is easier than, say, Marath-ing your own guys. As an added bonus, stops Order of Succession/Duplicant/Treachery/Sower of Temptation/etc. though those really are just free upside. Alter of Bone is great here for obvious reasons as the sac cannot be responded to of course. Birthing Pod is obviously great with Rector and Skullclamp is good with the Pattern, too.
4. Benevolent Bodyguard: I cannot for the life of me figure out why this is played over Mom in EVERY Marath (obviously I know the upside) but I’ve like Bodyguard before I used Rector due to the fact he is the best first Yisan target by far. Now, with Rector, he’s even better as he sacs on a Pattern with the bonus of giving pro-something which could be relevant (stack triggers properly).
5. Sakura-Tribe Elder is obviously run in all lists but he works great with Pattern, too.
5. Titania, Protector of Argoth is obviously good but I’m not absolutely 100 percent sure she deserves the spot. I feel there could potentially be better options which I don’t run like Evolutionary Leap (also helps Pattern/Rector) or even Dromoka’s Command or Domri Rade. She is Elemental though which is nice and can get a great land back.
I’ve also added one land (basic Plains) which has helped I feel. I really like the feel of this deck now and think it gives even more options to combo than before.
I actually put him in a few times but never once drew him. I think I will replace Titani with him and try some games today. He seems decent and at the worst he replaces himself and is easily fetchable.
Advanges for Growth:
(potentially) doubles power of Arbor elf and Earth Craft. Pseudo haste if not played turn 1. Can be found with Heliod´s Pilgrim (nr. of targets is quite low)
Disadvantages of Growth:
Land sweepers (note that we would like ppl to hit it over quite a few other lands so pin point removel is not really a good point)
Private Mod Note
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"Hail to the speaker, hail to the knower; joy to he who has understood, delight to they who have listened." - Odin
It's not going in an enchantment direction; I'm using Rector and Pattern as additional ways to combo. And it's working in testing. The only questionable enchantment is probably Song of the Dryads. I also ending up not with Heliod's Pilgrim but Evolutionary Leap. Do you understand how many ways Pattern and Rector help enable combos, blink? I'm not sure that you do.
Cards which are typically run which I've omitted: Earthcraft, Stoneforge Mystic, Titania, Protector of Argoth. Of these, Titania is probably the biggest loss and I will try to work her in. There is just way too much upside with Patter and Rector, though.
I don't agree with not playing Sylvan Library but I need to make a disclaimer that I'm not the best player and maybe my deck list isn't the optimal; after all, there are far more "traditional" builds with wins than mine. But I think Library is AWESOME at any point in the game. Maybe not the ideal T2 play but T4,5 whatever. Anyways, call me slow but I just realized that High Market is ridiculously good with Marath vs. Umezawa's Jitte, a card which totally wrecks this deck if you don't have quick answers. Another plus! New mulligan rule is tricky. Will certainly test the inclusion of certain cards such as Titania, Protector of Argoth and Woodland Bellower. I'm not going to take them out at the moment but I'm wondering if it will affect things at all.
Idk about you but Jitte totally wrecks this deck if removal is not available. One hit and two dorks gone T3 on the draw? Not good. With High Market, declare a blocker (preferably something like Wood Elves or even better, create a token with Marath) and sac after declared as a blocker and voila no Jitte counters!
Ok, so new mulligan really kills the Rector/Rebirth plan. Here's what I'm going back to at the moment. Iffy cards: Splinter Twin, Dromoka's Command, Crop Rotation. I'll still play Rector/Rebirth IRL cause I'm a spike and less competitive meta than Trice haha.
Evolutionary Leap is awesome awesome. I wasn't sold at first but it truly does great. I have removed Command, Twin and Rotation as well. Added Nature's Claim and PtE (card I'm usually strongly against but will try) along with Sword of Feast and Famine. Is Domri Rade so good? Everyone plays him but I just whiff so much it seems.
Also I am disliking the temples. Filters typically do fine albeit unspectacular but the tempo loss is a CiP tapped can really hurt at times. I even removed Stirring Wildwood and Village Treetop.
So Lightning Bolt is great. I've replaced Oracle of Mul Daya with Solemn Simulacrum for better value/Pod target...running PtE and StP as well. I really miss Crop Rotation vs. all these blue-control decks...any thoughts? (obviously a T2 Marath on the play is ideal, Teeg, etc.). Obvious thought is all-out combo but I just had my Lark stifled with VBR and Kiki in the yard so there's that :(. I know things like that will happen but just seems like we have a tough time with blue in general. I don't think Vexing Shusher or Grand Abolisher warrant spots. I want to run more instants to force removal on opponent's turn but don't know what's worth it. Currently I'm running Chord, Eladamri's Call, Bolt, PtE, StP, Worldly Tutor, and Nature's Claim. Maybe I'm taking the wrong approach. Grinding isn't really an option cause their card advantage is too great and then they drop a bomb/overwhelm with counters/bounce/removal.
I'm really back and forth on Stoneforge Mystic too. Sure against aggro that Collar is great and Clamp is great anytime but is it enough? I don't want to play her T2. For lists running Sword of X & Y (FF and FI) maybe but I don't think those are worth it either.
I've added Purphy back too. He seems to be doing alright. Good pod target (unless I'm trying to combo with the 4-drop) and good value overall. Still on the fence there.
Fiend Hunter: what's everyone's thought there? I don't know that I've ever gone for him with Pod/Chord/Recruiter. Doesn't mean he's not good and he has a purpose but is worth considering other options? I think every single decklist runs but we have Peddler, Collar, OUR GENERAL, Bolt, StP, PtE, Kavu, etc.. Don't like the WW either.
Sylvan Caryatid: usually we don't want to play him on T2 and he doesn't work with Priest of Titania. Hexproof is nice but dies to Anger and any other white sweepers. Thoughts there?
Xenagos, the Reveler is typically AWESOME but he's dead without creatures although the ultimate wins games. Idk if he's what we want on T3/4. He is not someone I'm considering removing though I'd be willing to put thought into it.
Titania, Protector of Argoth: obviously Elemental is great but with a board wipe she does nothing (well maybe an extra Wasteland/Cradle). I know she's for the midrange approach but how's she working for everyone?
I tried Domri Rade again and gosh I just can't ever seem to get him to be productive. No space atm but I can see his upside. Obviously better with Library in play but that doesn't always happen. I wish it was more like new Nissa's +1 :(. Fight is useful occasionally.
So Lightning Bolt is great. I've replaced Oracle of Mul Daya with Solemn Simulacrum for better value/Pod target...running PtE and StP as well. I really miss Crop Rotation vs. all these blue-control decks...any thoughts? (obviously a T2 Marath on the play is ideal, Teeg, etc.). Obvious thought is all-out combo but I just had my Lark stifled with VBR and Kiki in the yard so there's that :(. I know things like that will happen but just seems like we have a tough time with blue in general. I don't think Vexing Shusher or Grand Abolisher warrant spots. I want to run more instants to force removal on opponent's turn but don't know what's worth it. Currently I'm running Chord, Eladamri's Call, Bolt, PtE, StP, Worldly Tutor, and Nature's Claim. Maybe I'm taking the wrong approach. Grinding isn't really an option cause their card advantage is too great and then they drop a bomb/overwhelm with counters/bounce/removal.
I'm really back and forth on Stoneforge Mystic too. Sure against aggro that Collar is great and Clamp is great anytime but is it enough? I don't want to play her T2. For lists running Sword of X & Y (FF and FI) maybe but I don't think those are worth it either.
I've added Purphy back too. He seems to be doing alright. Good pod target (unless I'm trying to combo with the 4-drop) and good value overall. Still on the fence there.
Fiend Hunter: what's everyone's thought there? I don't know that I've ever gone for him with Pod/Chord/Recruiter. Doesn't mean he's not good and he has a purpose but is worth considering other options? I think every single decklist runs but we have Peddler, Collar, OUR GENERAL, Bolt, StP, PtE, Kavu, etc.. Don't like the WW either.
Sylvan Caryatid: usually we don't want to play him on T2 and he doesn't work with Priest of Titania. Hexproof is nice but dies to Anger and any other white sweepers. Thoughts there?
Xenagos, the Reveler is typically AWESOME but he's dead without creatures although the ultimate wins games. Idk if he's what we want on T3/4. He is not someone I'm considering removing though I'd be willing to put thought into it.
Titania, Protector of Argoth: obviously Elemental is great but with a board wipe she does nothing (well maybe an extra Wasteland/Cradle). I know she's for the midrange approach but how's she working for everyone?
I tried Domri Rade again and gosh I just can't ever seem to get him to be productive. No space atm but I can see his upside. Obviously better with Library in play but that doesn't always happen. I wish it was more like new Nissa's +1 :(. Fight is useful occasionally.
Ahhhh that's a lot. Please help! I'd love feedback
Overall, I think the deck is doing really well. Some tough matchups (blue & Sidisi) but other than that very solid.
I replaced Solemn Simulacrum in my list with Yavimaya Dryad and I have loved it. Comes down a turn earlier, which is huge, I find that by the time I can drop Simulacrum I want to be doing something more aggressive, I found myself not casting Simulacrum a lot of the time, not so with Dryad. Dryad is also skullclampable. Fetching a forest is better than fetching a basic. And forestwalk is great against a lot of opponents.
Fiend Hunter I find him to be a necessary card in my list. I tutor for him a lot. I also run Banisher Priest for redundancy. I have been considering dropping Banisher just to tighten up my list with other cards, but I really like having both of them. Removal built into a body is something I am always happy with in Marath.
Sylvan Caryatid is nice for Hexproof and the fixing, but he doesn't attack, so for me that's a deal breaker. Everything in my list needs to be running double duty. Blockers are not what I want.
Xenagos, the Reveler has been such an amazing card for me. With all the dorks we run having him not be active for mana when he comes down is rare. Winning the game if he sticks for even one turn, definitely not rare.
Titania, Protector of Argoth seems good. But very dependant on having used a fetchland...which we run 9 of so its pretty realistic that this could ramp you, and give you two 5/3 bodies on the turn it comes out. But by the time I have 5 mana I feel like I have better things to be doing.
Domri Rade is exactly what I want in my list. T2 Card advantage, removal, and win con. But if you put it in your list make sure you put Courser and Oracle of Mul Daya back in. They are best friends with Domri.
I'm not so convinced by Yavimaya Dryad cause we don't play Solemn Simulacrum for ramp, surely to take a basic but primarily because it is good with pod and makes we draw. Anyway i can understand your choice.
I play Sylvan Caryatid and i love it but your poin of view is right. If we don't win with combo we need a lot of creature for attack. But remember, this is a midrange combo deck.
Titania, Protector of Argoth is one of my favourite card and is very good against control deck but, like you said: "by the time I have 5 mana I feel like I have better things to be doing."
Worldly Tutor is very good. It finds our combo pieces and bullets. I play it. I've won quite a few games by flashing Resto and Worldly Tutor end of turn. I see a lot of lists not playing it, which I think is fine. It is card disadvantage. I have never been unhappy with the card, sometimes it wins the game, sometimes it disrupts my opponent, and sometimes it just gets me a Birds of Paradise when I need one.
I too think Titania is too little impact and not guaranteed. Not bad but I am really focusing on lowering the curve and with Titan, Kiki, Lark, Guide, Conscripts I'm thinking we're full unless it's BIG impact.
And Titania vs control: one sweeper a turn after she's cast and you you paid 5 to get an extra mana (wasteland will be good tho). I'm trying the dryad and farhaven elf. Too many three drops so I think I'll cut the elf. Dryad isn't bad although I'd rather pod into Kiki or Guide so Sad robot wins there.
Wordly tutor is iffy IMO. I'd rather play enlightened but not both. Draw is still the issue. Ugh. I need better lines of play.
I've played Mirri's Guile and it's great T1 without a dork but I've had other games where it has been meh. I'll keep for now.
I'm not convinced by Courser. We don't play enough ramp really to benefit from the life tho I understand the Domri interaction. Oracle is back in but again, but I just feel at 4 mana I want an ETB or something. I will be trying crazy shiz tonight I think.
I want to try Fecundity too.
Here's a new one: temur sabertooth? Is dauntless escort just better?
Is yisan worth it? It takes three turns to combo. Yikes. I like him as general but am questioning him in this shell.
Thanks for the comments, all. I'll be picking up a VoR as soon as I can.
My thoughts on Omnath, Locus of Rage are that I think Titania, Protector of Argoth is a much better option for a similar slot. Has an impact as soon as she hits the board, can grab a fetch to trigger herself, or a destroyed Gaea's Cradle/Cavern/what have you, and costs two mana less for the same power; Omnath doesn't even have trample and RR can be hard to hit since most builds are typically only splash red. I was thinking of putting in Titania for a more midrangey option, and someone a couple pages back had some success with her. She is also an elemental and interacts with Cavern in the same way The second ability on Omnath might prove to be better than I am thinking though, so I'd definitely try him out if you think he could be successful, I just think he's rather high on the curve.
Also, Omnath would not trigger on a Marath death since she wouldn't ever go to the graveyard if you decide to send her back to the command zone, sadly.
'Dies' and 'goes to graveyard' are synonymous now. If a commander is not put into graveyard they are not considered to have 'died.'
I saw a list of MTG TOP 8 with sneak attack. What do you think about this card in the deck. I think the combo would be faster. I also think it would be dead bye the time.
I think Greenwarden of Murasa definitely deserves some testing. But it you play Gaea's Cradle then I don't think it's better than Primeval Titan. I don't have Cradle so I don't play Titan. Warden definitely looks like fun shenanigans to me.
Question: Is a morph creatures CMC 3? I'm looking at Ashcloud Phoenix and wondering if I can sac it to Birthing Pod for Zealous Conscripts then sac it again for Restoration Angel, bounce Conscripts, then sac Resto for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Does that work? Edit: no it does not work, the CMC for a morph is 0. But it would work if I paid the morph cost and sac'd it again for Kiki Jiki. So, sac it, morph it, sac it. Thats 8 mana and 6 life, not that hard to come by for us. Although it is 12 mana if we do it the turn Phoenix comes into play.....hmm has anyone tried this at all is it too cute?
I agree. So you're planning to run all 3 when you test then?
Yes I know, but I've decided to test Ashcloud anyway as I can still make the combo work if I can pay his morph cost. I feel like this deck would really benefit from a Murderous Redcap type card but our options are very limited. Ashcloud Phoenix Heartmender Hound of Griselbrand, are the only ones I know of that will work in that slot. Ashcloud is the best of those 3 imo, so I'll give it a try for a while.
1x Academy Rector
1x Acidic Slime
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Benevolent Bodyguard
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bloom Tender
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nightshade Peddler
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Primeval Titan
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Restoration Angel
1x Reveillark
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Vexing Shusher
1x Village Bell-Ringer
1x Voice of Resurgence
1x Wood Elves
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Brushland
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Gavony Township
1x High Market
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Raging Ravine
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Savannah
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Taiga
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Treetop Village
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Earthcraft
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pattern of Rebirth
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Instant (4)
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Swords to Plowshares
Artifact (4)
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Birthing Pod
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Skullclamp
Planeswalker (3)
1x Domri Rade
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Xenagos, the Reveler
Sorcery (1)
1x Green Sun's Zenith
Please help finalize my final few tweaks!! I feel the weakest cards are Oracle of Mul Daya (actually, NEED to replace with something better), Nissa (not bad but not great), and O-Ring (Song of Dryads/Council's Judgment? Idk, it may just need to stay). I also don't think Crucible is vital but it's not bad. Just not what I want to play at 3 mana. It curves really badly.
edit-I think I'll try Aven Mindcensor for Oracle and Evolutionary Leap for Crucible. I know, I know, Crucible is good but again, curves terribly.
edit--ok instead of Emrakul I'm going to be testing Inferno Titan, Vorinclex, Sun Titan, and maybe Avacyn or Iona. Ah Woodfall Primus is a good one too.
edit 2--I forgot to mention all I really had to take out was the elf package being Priest of Titania, Devoted Druid & Skyshroud Elf (which are all 2CMC dorks without Priest) and Courser (which doesn't ramp and dies to even more removal than most creatures). Idk, I'm REALLY liking the testing so far. I feel it has given the deck much more consistency and much better top decks and substance rather than dork after dork mid to late game which sucks without Survival/Fauna/etc. I would like to put Stoneforge back in for Skullclamp though...
1x Academy Rector
1x Acidic Slime
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Benevolent Bodyguard
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bloom Tender
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nightshade Peddler
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Priest of Titania
1x Primeval Titan
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Restoration Angel
1x Reveillark
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Skyshroud Elf
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Village Bell-Ringer
1x Voice of Resurgence
1x Wood Elves
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Brushland
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Gavony Township
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x High Market
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
2x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Raging Ravine
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Savannah
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Taiga
1x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Pattern of Rebirth
1x Song of the Dryads
1x Splinter Twin
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Instant (4)
1x Chord of Calling
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Altar of Bone
1x Council's Judgment
1x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact (3)
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Birthing Pod
1x Skullclamp
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Xenagos, the Reveler
Couple key points and/or interactions:
1. Academy Rector is AWESOME here. If I have a sac outlet or am triggering in response to a wipe, I’ll typically get Pattern of Rebirth. I have come to the realization (as have you guys) that grabbing a combo piece is typically going to have much more impact though sometimes you need to just get some utility in Linvala/Teeg and of course, Prime Time will be a target when combo isn’t an option.
2. Pattern will not be Rector’s only good target 99% of the time! A Library or Survival can be crucial and that is actually also the reason which I’ve included Song of the Dryads (I like it over Oblivion Ring) but more importantly, Splinter Twin will enable the combo win many times. Splinter Twin on Eternal Witness/Imperial Recruiter/Prime Time/Reveillark/Karmic Guide/etc. is great as well.
3. High Market is good. Doesn’t hurt the mana base, provides an easy sac outlet which is easier than, say, Marath-ing your own guys. As an added bonus, stops Order of Succession/Duplicant/Treachery/Sower of Temptation/etc. though those really are just free upside. Alter of Bone is great here for obvious reasons as the sac cannot be responded to of course. Birthing Pod is obviously great with Rector and Skullclamp is good with the Pattern, too.
4. Benevolent Bodyguard: I cannot for the life of me figure out why this is played over Mom in EVERY Marath (obviously I know the upside) but I’ve like Bodyguard before I used Rector due to the fact he is the best first Yisan target by far. Now, with Rector, he’s even better as he sacs on a Pattern with the bonus of giving pro-something which could be relevant (stack triggers properly).
5. Sakura-Tribe Elder is obviously run in all lists but he works great with Pattern, too.
5. Titania, Protector of Argoth is obviously good but I’m not absolutely 100 percent sure she deserves the spot. I feel there could potentially be better options which I don’t run like Evolutionary Leap (also helps Pattern/Rector) or even Dromoka’s Command or Domri Rade. She is Elemental though which is nice and can get a great land back.
I’ve also added one land (basic Plains) which has helped I feel. I really like the feel of this deck now and think it gives even more options to combo than before.
I actually put him in a few times but never once drew him. I think I will replace Titani with him and try some games today. He seems decent and at the worst he replaces himself and is easily fetchable.
Compare it to Llanowar Elves:
Advantages for Elves:
Improves Priest of titania, Slightly (the card gets lost in the process): Skullclamp, Fauna Shaman and Survial of the Fittest
Disadvantages for Elves:
Creature Sweepers
Advanges for Growth:
(potentially) doubles power of Arbor elf and Earth Craft. Pseudo haste if not played turn 1. Can be found with Heliod´s Pilgrim (nr. of targets is quite low)
Disadvantages of Growth:
Land sweepers (note that we would like ppl to hit it over quite a few other lands so pin point removel is not really a good point)
To be clear, you are right in that a Fattie or two is a bad idea. It is not a bad idea, though, to add a card which grabs ANY COMBO PIECE and puts it on the field uncounterable nor is it a bad idea to add a card which not only gets that combo enabler (if you have a sac outlet online) but can also get another combo piece which will enable the combo on the spot with just Bell Ringer or Conscripts on the field! I mean even on our best creature tutor, a great removal tool, or, wait, how about on ANOTHER combo enabler???? Did you know Rector can get not one, but TWO of the best cards in our deck and put them on the field uncounterable??
Cards dedicated to this route (which are otherwise not run): Pattern of Rebirth, Academy Rector, High Market. Altar of Bone has been run before by Lyserg but it is run here and it gets even better!
Cards which are typically run which I've omitted: Earthcraft, Stoneforge Mystic, Titania, Protector of Argoth. Of these, Titania is probably the biggest loss and I will try to work her in. There is just way too much upside with Patter and Rector, though.
1x Acidic Slime
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Benevolent Bodyguard
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bloom Tender
1x Devoted Druid
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fiend Hunter
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Karmic Guide
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Nightshade Peddler
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Priest of Titania
1x Primeval Titan
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Restoration Angel
1x Reveillark
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Skyshroud Elf
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Caryatid
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Village Bell-Ringer
1x Voice of Resurgence
1x Wood Elves
1x Woodland Bellower
1x Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
1x Zealous Conscripts
1x Arid Mesa
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Brushland
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Clifftop Retreat
1x Command Tower
1x Copperline Gorge
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Flooded Strand
2x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Gavony Township
1x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karplusan Forest
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
2x Plains
1x Plateau
1x Raging Ravine
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Rugged Prairie
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Savannah
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Taiga
1x Temple Garden
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Swords to Plowshares
Enchantment (5)
1x Earthcraft
1x Evolutionary Leap
1x Splinter Twin
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Artifact (3)
1x Basilisk Collar
1x Birthing Pod
1x Skullclamp
Sorcery (2)
1x Council's Judgment
1x Green Sun's Zenith
Planeswalker (2)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Xenagos, the Reveler
Thoughts?
I'm really back and forth on Stoneforge Mystic too. Sure against aggro that Collar is great and Clamp is great anytime but is it enough? I don't want to play her T2. For lists running Sword of X & Y (FF and FI) maybe but I don't think those are worth it either.
I've added Purphy back too. He seems to be doing alright. Good pod target (unless I'm trying to combo with the 4-drop) and good value overall. Still on the fence there.
Fiend Hunter: what's everyone's thought there? I don't know that I've ever gone for him with Pod/Chord/Recruiter. Doesn't mean he's not good and he has a purpose but is worth considering other options? I think every single decklist runs but we have Peddler, Collar, OUR GENERAL, Bolt, StP, PtE, Kavu, etc.. Don't like the WW either.
Sylvan Caryatid: usually we don't want to play him on T2 and he doesn't work with Priest of Titania. Hexproof is nice but dies to Anger and any other white sweepers. Thoughts there?
Xenagos, the Reveler is typically AWESOME but he's dead without creatures although the ultimate wins games. Idk if he's what we want on T3/4. He is not someone I'm considering removing though I'd be willing to put thought into it.
Titania, Protector of Argoth: obviously Elemental is great but with a board wipe she does nothing (well maybe an extra Wasteland/Cradle). I know she's for the midrange approach but how's she working for everyone?
I tried Domri Rade again and gosh I just can't ever seem to get him to be productive. No space atm but I can see his upside. Obviously better with Library in play but that doesn't always happen. I wish it was more like new Nissa's +1 :(. Fight is useful occasionally.
I think this deck can get better. Some of these choices are "goodstuff" choices that idk if they belong or not...some things I've considered: Mirri's Guile (redundancy), Abzan Beastmaster (so0o slow), another land (forest, probably), Mother of Runes (in addition to Bodyguard), Farhaven Elf, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (I run 17 non-land, non-creatures), Sylvan Scrying (different purpose but would Farseek be a viable option? Likely no), Thunderfoot Baloth (I've already taken Woodland Bellower out unfortunately due to new mulligan), Hardened Scales (maybe too situational, especially shooting for T2 Marath), back to Boros Charm (burning those Walkers is nice), Dauntless Escort (what's overextending?? haha), Ajani, Mentor of Heroes (nice effects, costs a lot and would likely take the spot of Garruk, Wildspeaker IMO), Fecundicity (good vs. the blue, bad vs. a lot though) and finally (off the top of my head), Splinter Twin which likely requires TWO turns to setup and can be disrupted.
Ahhhh that's a lot. Please help! I'd love feedback
Overall, I think the deck is doing really well. Some tough matchups (blue & Sidisi) but other than that very solid.
I replaced Solemn Simulacrum in my list with Yavimaya Dryad and I have loved it. Comes down a turn earlier, which is huge, I find that by the time I can drop Simulacrum I want to be doing something more aggressive, I found myself not casting Simulacrum a lot of the time, not so with Dryad. Dryad is also skullclampable. Fetching a forest is better than fetching a basic. And forestwalk is great against a lot of opponents.
Fiend Hunter I find him to be a necessary card in my list. I tutor for him a lot. I also run Banisher Priest for redundancy. I have been considering dropping Banisher just to tighten up my list with other cards, but I really like having both of them. Removal built into a body is something I am always happy with in Marath.
Sylvan Caryatid is nice for Hexproof and the fixing, but he doesn't attack, so for me that's a deal breaker. Everything in my list needs to be running double duty. Blockers are not what I want.
Xenagos, the Reveler has been such an amazing card for me. With all the dorks we run having him not be active for mana when he comes down is rare. Winning the game if he sticks for even one turn, definitely not rare.
Titania, Protector of Argoth seems good. But very dependant on having used a fetchland...which we run 9 of so its pretty realistic that this could ramp you, and give you two 5/3 bodies on the turn it comes out. But by the time I have 5 mana I feel like I have better things to be doing.
Domri Rade is exactly what I want in my list. T2 Card advantage, removal, and win con. But if you put it in your list make sure you put Courser and Oracle of Mul Daya back in. They are best friends with Domri.
Worldly Tutor is very good. It finds our combo pieces and bullets. I play it. I've won quite a few games by flashing Resto and Worldly Tutor end of turn. I see a lot of lists not playing it, which I think is fine. It is card disadvantage. I have never been unhappy with the card, sometimes it wins the game, sometimes it disrupts my opponent, and sometimes it just gets me a Birds of Paradise when I need one.
And Titania vs control: one sweeper a turn after she's cast and you you paid 5 to get an extra mana (wasteland will be good tho). I'm trying the dryad and farhaven elf. Too many three drops so I think I'll cut the elf. Dryad isn't bad although I'd rather pod into Kiki or Guide so Sad robot wins there.
Wordly tutor is iffy IMO. I'd rather play enlightened but not both. Draw is still the issue. Ugh. I need better lines of play.
I've played Mirri's Guile and it's great T1 without a dork but I've had other games where it has been meh. I'll keep for now.
I'm not convinced by Courser. We don't play enough ramp really to benefit from the life tho I understand the Domri interaction. Oracle is back in but again, but I just feel at 4 mana I want an ETB or something. I will be trying crazy shiz tonight I think.
I want to try Fecundity too.
Here's a new one: temur sabertooth? Is dauntless escort just better?
Is yisan worth it? It takes three turns to combo. Yikes. I like him as general but am questioning him in this shell.