Sylvan library is esp powerfull in early games. And would still provide card advantage in late games. Lyserg may not be using it because he has found card advantages in Ajani, MOH and Domri Rade, which i personally dont play.
I am not in love with the Shaman. Atarka's Command is intriguing and I'd like to give it a try and see if any of the 1st, 3rd or 4th mode are relevant. I'm thinking the 4th might be good for some combat tricks. That Collected Company looks pretty sweet, though. Play it EOT and it's gonna hit 2 creatures very often. I'm definitely going to try. I may cut Bloodbraid Elf for it. BBE just does not synergize well with Chord, Pod or GSZ. I'm going to at least give the CC a try.
Hm, that's interesting. Charm looks pretty awesome now that I think about it. It would be a nice supplement to Dauntless Escort and provide for some potential alpha strikes with Marath when wraths aren't expected. Don't know what I would cut for it though. I like the DE more as it can be tutored more easily and has a good body. edit-DOH! Missed the 4 damage to PW on charm...definitely going to give it a try this weekend as I think I have a copy somewhere.
Ok, guys, I need help with a couple cards and I think they're related in use. Village Bell-Ringer and Earthcraft. I've used VBR as a 3-mana option to go infinite with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but I've seen stuff in this thread that he's good for other stuff too...I DON'T use Yisan, the Wanderer Bard as creature removal is pretty prevalent here and I can never get him to stick for a full turn it seems; is VBR still a good option?
I just bought Earthcraft after putting it off because I was debating its usefulness. So I know with a bunch of creatures I can have big turns with VBR etc. but how to go infinite (besides with Cathars' Crusade)? And besides going infinite, what situations do you find yourself leaning on it in?
Is Idyllic Tutor worth it in any metas? The sorcery speed kills me and the lack of artifact-fetching sucks but it's not card disadvantage and can fetch Survival of the Fittest, Cathars' Crusade, etc. late game for the win but don't know if it's even worth running along side Enlightened Tutor. Thanks, guys. I'm really loving this deck. Even when I'm not winning, I love the non-linearity of it!
I've just started testing Oracle of Mul Daya and am absolutely loving it. It has a very weak body but put a couple counters on it and it's good to go--and even if not, it will almost always generate some CA. Really smooths out those land topdecks. It's becoming my go-to four-drop unless I need a Flametongue Kavu (I don't have Linvala, yet. That's one of the last pieces I would like). I don't have Courser of Kruphix either. More resilient but does less than Oracle.
I don't think the Library is crucial; Mirri's Guile might be a good option instead with the amount of fetches we run. BTW, I run 38 lands which seems to be on the low side from what I've seen and I usually am really good on my land drops.
I used to run Sun Titan but actually took him out for Inferno Titan because much of the time he just got fetches or the occasional dork (getting Strip Mine back is nice) and Inferno Titan is very versatile. I don't have Ajani, Mentor of Heroes yet as I'm waiting for it to rotate out but I'm very anxious to try it out. I'm concerned the high CMC won't justify it's effects though both +s are super relevant.
What are the best ways to use it? I'm pretty excited to get it going but don't know how to abuse it properly.
Tap a Basic
Remove a counter from Marath to make a guy
Tap that guy to untap basic land
repeat
???
Ok so I wasn't missing anything. I was thinking there would be a combo besides Cathars' Crusade in there. I'm guessing I'll have to wait until I really playtest it to see it's power.
Earthcraft has more impact as long as you have the resources and Marath. Sylvan is there but Earthcraft has more "oh crap" from experienced players due to the fact that it can be used immediately whereas Library can be used the following turn. Don't fret about it, I have those two in my library.
Sun Titan is okay but his cmc is bit too high on the curve. As for Ajani, he's okay as well, depending on his use and resources, he's a powerhouse to use. For me, I dropped him for something else. For Yisan, he did wonderful for grabbing uses especially when Earthcraft is online.
Vexing Shusher was there when Marath first came out. More and more control are often use Wrath and friends as he's getting a lot of top spots before.
Earthcraft has more impact as long as you have the resources and Marath. Sylvan is there but Earthcraft has more "oh crap" from experienced players due to the fact that it can be used immediately whereas Library can be used the following turn. Don't fret about it, I have those two in my library.
Sun Titan is okay but his cmc is bit too high on the curve. As for Ajani, he's okay as well, depending on his use and resources, he's a powerhouse to use. For me, I dropped him for something else. For Yisan, he did wonderful for grabbing uses especially when Earthcraft is online.
Vexing Shusher was there when Marath first came out. More and more control are often use Wrath and friends as he's getting a lot of top spots before.
Mmh i'll try [[Earthcraft]] one time again, and i'll tell you what i think.
I dropped Sun Titan for Yisan and Ajani for a land (now i have 40 lands), but i think Ajani can remain inside.
So, you prefer Linvala between her and Shusher? I'm not so convinced.
Dryad Arbor was an easy cut. Wrath effects suck, sure, but what really makes it a bad card IMO is its ping-ability. Sucks to use a GSZ turn 1 and get pinged EOT. Happened too many times to make it worth it, IMO.
I play Nature's Claim and Aura Shards both. The Shards allows instant speed 1-mana enchantment removal which is pretty big for me playing combo a lot (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind). It's always nice to have the Claim T1-3 for a good tempo advantage, though.
I've said it before but Cathars' Crusade straight up wins games if it sticks. I've never considered cutting it; it's answer-or-die next turn most of the time.
King John--how do you like Life from the Loam? I really want to play it but am unsure what would be a good cut for it. I have been really curious to try it since Lyserg posted about it a few pages ago.
Yeah when Purphy is good he's good but I felt like a lot of times he was just sitting there not contributing much and the times when he was working, he was "win more". Odd on the curve sometimes, too, but I'm gonna hopefully get some games in in the next couple days to retest. I guess it's good to also not have to win through combat with the combo but that's not too often an issue. We'll see how he does.
Priest feels somewhat lackluster here. He'll be tapping for one-two (green only, at that) most of the time and is fragile. Oracle is too, and sometimes she strikes out, but often I gain at least +1 CA off her and when played T2-4, it's even as good as +4-6 CA. She works really well with all of our fetches and tutors too.
I think top has a place in there since its a really good utility and it also avoid drawing crappy cards. Sucks that we don't have much of tutor except for one.
I haven't run any of these cards so I could be totally off base...but I feel Mirri's Guile could be better than SDT or Library in this deck. A lot of fetches, a lot of tutors, and cheap cheap cheap is good. I think I may print and playtest today.
edit--after thinking about it a little bit, I can see how MG is a borderline terrible topdeck later game in a game you're currently losing whereas SDT works right away, with fetches, etc. and Library can give raw advantage (although slower than SDT). I'm interested to try all of them now.
Gavony Township helps with the wars of attrition and when you're both top decking later in the game and can even get some important guys out of Pyroclasm/Mutilate range, etc...but I don't feel it's SUPER important to this deck; we nearly always have something to be doing with our mana. If stealing is a part of your meta, Homeward Path is definitely a better option, IMO. Yavimaya Hollow, too, though it only regens one per turn, it's worth a try. GT has helped me win before but I've never gotten it with Knight of the Reliquary for instance. I'm considering replacing with Reliquary Tower or Homeward Path. Tower for Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and path for obvious reasons.
They do only help sometimes. They're totally meta calls. I play Inkmoth and Gavony. Don't have Wasteland or Kessig Wolf Run...been putting of the KWR. I think I'll get it now.
What's the thought on Dragonlord Dromoka? Is it just a really bad Grand Abolisher? I have one coming to see how it goes. Lifelink and uncounterable could be useful, I dunno. I was thinking could help combo off late game but we'll see.
I'm glad about Yisan. I wasn't sold on him at first but if he can stick two turns it's a win a lot of the time so we'll see if I can protect him. Six is a lot for Garruk but he could generate good CA right away which this deck DESPERATELY needs at times. I've been finding myself running out of gas often and need something like this. Shamanic Revelation may be in order though I am totally not sold on it as we don't always have many creatures out though even with 3-4 it is better than Harmonize and the ferocious would be nice to trigger, too, as we don't have too much lifegain (I don't run Archangel of Thune/Spike Feeder yet).
Didn't get to test Grand Abolisher last night but after a rough night against Erebos, God of the Dead and Jor Kadeen, The Prevailer and their removal (we played duel lists just with 40 life, multiplayer) I am really anxious to try him in there. I am almost tempted to try Ground Seal in place of possibly Earthcraft as a meta-call due to all the grave hate I'm getting which really hurts the easiest (IMO) combo option. Getting Yisan may help that, though.
Does anyone have a updated deck list? I am making a comeback to Marath!!!
The list from EDH Easter Tournament by Alchimistà Cafe (Biella, Italy) looks solid
Oh wow, he plays a super high number of non-traditional cards (from what I've seen in this thread/MTG Top 8). I'll have to look through that list and see what from it is worth considering for testing. Wonder how many of those are meta calls?
blink--is the lack of the pilgrim the biggest surprise to you???
why not include the Stax in the deck. Price of Glory or War's Toll or Root Maze or Karmic Justice
it would be good against the control
I do not know ... my meta plays only control
I'm desperate...
Guys what is your opinion on Purphoros, God of the Forge? Can we cut him?
I would find a place for Mother of Runes and Council's Judgment , what do you think about these cards?
How good is Vexing Shusher? I've had the same issues as Fixius and have one in the mail on the way but am not 100% on how good he'll be just cause he's dead vs. decks that don't play blue. The Grand Abolisher I am so stoked about though as it is great vs. any deck. He will be answered often but he'll be a 1-for-1 and if he sticks, it will be on opponents turn! I'm digging it. I've tried Dragonlord Dromoka in a few games vs. Keranos, God of Storms and he was answered each time but I never felt bad to have him and if he hadn't been answered he would have won me a few games. So it's your call if you want to use 6 mana for something with little evasion. I'm taking him out for Abolisher, personally because my 6CMC slot is filled with Primeval Titan (more on him in a minute) and Garruk, Caller of Beasts (haven't gotten him yet but I'm going to test).
Blink - I've felt the same way about Purphoros, God of the Forge. Some games he is great and does 10-20 damage easily and he enables combo-win without combat step which is great but other games he is not so great and he curves TERRIBLY IMO. I have cut before, am running now, but he's a maybe cut. I just put in Oblivion Ring over Council's Judgement for the W instead of WW. Is that a good call? I have Mother of Runes on my to-test list but I have Benevolent Bodyguard coming and think he could be better, though I'm not sure. I also run Dauntless Escort and the 3 mana is a drawback but he is soo good when he's good. If I run Mother or Bodyguard, Escort may get the cut. I also run Boros Charm at the moment, too.
I like Primeval Titan but he is really bad vs. Bribery. Even with an answer, the CA given to the opponent is huge. I am considering replacing with Ruric Thar, the Unbowed while Bribery is a thing. He is great vs. control but not bad versus anyone as we run twice as many creatures as non-creatures. What are your thoughts? Haven't seen him mentioned too often here.
why not include the Stax in the deck. Price of Glory or War's Toll or Root Maze or Karmic Justice
it would be good against the control
I do not know ... my meta plays only control
I'm desperate...
Fixius, see my above post for some further comments. I am not sure about Price of Glory but it could work with an altered build-around with more creatures, enchantments & planeswalkers rather than instants but remember it shuts off other things as well (Survival of the Fittest, Earthcraft, Marath, Will of the Wild, Restoration Angel, etc.) during opponents turns (important!). Instead of Root Maze, I'd consider running Blind Obedience. I know the lands don't tap but that really slows us down just as much, too. Karmic Justice is possible if you go the Price of Glory rout, but I care more about my creatures getting destroyed, personally.
I am really liking that War's Toll. I am considering trying it out in the near future. My question: they can tap all their lands at once for mana, right? Still very good roadblock vs. control but big difference.
That being said, I don't have one either but I've play tested proxy to see if I want to buy and yes, I will buy because he's never dead, but I didn't feel he bolstered my game enough to justify the price at this point in time. Will his price ever drop? Probably not but I'm just hoping waiting six months won't boost the Judge Promo too much.
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I am not in love with the Shaman. Atarka's Command is intriguing and I'd like to give it a try and see if any of the 1st, 3rd or 4th mode are relevant. I'm thinking the 4th might be good for some combat tricks. That Collected Company looks pretty sweet, though. Play it EOT and it's gonna hit 2 creatures very often. I'm definitely going to try. I may cut Bloodbraid Elf for it. BBE just does not synergize well with Chord, Pod or GSZ. I'm going to at least give the CC a try.
Hm, that's interesting. Charm looks pretty awesome now that I think about it. It would be a nice supplement to Dauntless Escort and provide for some potential alpha strikes with Marath when wraths aren't expected. Don't know what I would cut for it though. I like the DE more as it can be tutored more easily and has a good body. edit-DOH! Missed the 4 damage to PW on charm...definitely going to give it a try this weekend as I think I have a copy somewhere.
Ok, guys, I need help with a couple cards and I think they're related in use. Village Bell-Ringer and Earthcraft. I've used VBR as a 3-mana option to go infinite with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker but I've seen stuff in this thread that he's good for other stuff too...I DON'T use Yisan, the Wanderer Bard as creature removal is pretty prevalent here and I can never get him to stick for a full turn it seems; is VBR still a good option?
I just bought Earthcraft after putting it off because I was debating its usefulness. So I know with a bunch of creatures I can have big turns with VBR etc. but how to go infinite (besides with Cathars' Crusade)? And besides going infinite, what situations do you find yourself leaning on it in?
Is Idyllic Tutor worth it in any metas? The sorcery speed kills me and the lack of artifact-fetching sucks but it's not card disadvantage and can fetch Survival of the Fittest, Cathars' Crusade, etc. late game for the win but don't know if it's even worth running along side Enlightened Tutor. Thanks, guys. I'm really loving this deck. Even when I'm not winning, I love the non-linearity of it!
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
I don't think the Library is crucial; Mirri's Guile might be a good option instead with the amount of fetches we run. BTW, I run 38 lands which seems to be on the low side from what I've seen and I usually am really good on my land drops.
I used to run Sun Titan but actually took him out for Inferno Titan because much of the time he just got fetches or the occasional dork (getting Strip Mine back is nice) and Inferno Titan is very versatile. I don't have Ajani, Mentor of Heroes yet as I'm waiting for it to rotate out but I'm very anxious to try it out. I'm concerned the high CMC won't justify it's effects though both +s are super relevant.
What are the best ways to use it? I'm pretty excited to get it going but don't know how to abuse it properly.
Tap a Basic
Remove a counter from Marath to make a guy
Tap that guy to untap basic land
repeat
???
Ok so I wasn't missing anything. I was thinking there would be a combo besides Cathars' Crusade in there. I'm guessing I'll have to wait until I really playtest it to see it's power.
Sun Titan is okay but his cmc is bit too high on the curve. As for Ajani, he's okay as well, depending on his use and resources, he's a powerhouse to use. For me, I dropped him for something else. For Yisan, he did wonderful for grabbing uses especially when Earthcraft is online.
Vexing Shusher was there when Marath first came out. More and more control are often use Wrath and friends as he's getting a lot of top spots before.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
I don't understand; how does this combo? I like Zealous Conscripts outside of the combo, too.
Got my Boros Charm in yesterday; worked lovely. Had a very sweet play with Damnation on the stack and the opponent's field full of critters.
Dryad Arbor was an easy cut. Wrath effects suck, sure, but what really makes it a bad card IMO is its ping-ability. Sucks to use a GSZ turn 1 and get pinged EOT. Happened too many times to make it worth it, IMO.
I play Nature's Claim and Aura Shards both. The Shards allows instant speed 1-mana enchantment removal which is pretty big for me playing combo a lot (Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind). It's always nice to have the Claim T1-3 for a good tempo advantage, though.
I've said it before but Cathars' Crusade straight up wins games if it sticks. I've never considered cutting it; it's answer-or-die next turn most of the time.
King John--how do you like Life from the Loam? I really want to play it but am unsure what would be a good cut for it. I have been really curious to try it since Lyserg posted about it a few pages ago.
Yeah when Purphy is good he's good but I felt like a lot of times he was just sitting there not contributing much and the times when he was working, he was "win more". Odd on the curve sometimes, too, but I'm gonna hopefully get some games in in the next couple days to retest. I guess it's good to also not have to win through combat with the combo but that's not too often an issue. We'll see how he does.
Priest feels somewhat lackluster here. He'll be tapping for one-two (green only, at that) most of the time and is fragile. Oracle is too, and sometimes she strikes out, but often I gain at least +1 CA off her and when played T2-4, it's even as good as +4-6 CA. She works really well with all of our fetches and tutors too.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
edit--after thinking about it a little bit, I can see how MG is a borderline terrible topdeck later game in a game you're currently losing whereas SDT works right away, with fetches, etc. and Library can give raw advantage (although slower than SDT). I'm interested to try all of them now.
Gavony Township helps with the wars of attrition and when you're both top decking later in the game and can even get some important guys out of Pyroclasm/Mutilate range, etc...but I don't feel it's SUPER important to this deck; we nearly always have something to be doing with our mana. If stealing is a part of your meta, Homeward Path is definitely a better option, IMO. Yavimaya Hollow, too, though it only regens one per turn, it's worth a try. GT has helped me win before but I've never gotten it with Knight of the Reliquary for instance. I'm considering replacing with Reliquary Tower or Homeward Path. Tower for Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and path for obvious reasons.
What's the thought on Dragonlord Dromoka? Is it just a really bad Grand Abolisher? I have one coming to see how it goes. Lifelink and uncounterable could be useful, I dunno. I was thinking could help combo off late game but we'll see.
Didn't get to test Grand Abolisher last night but after a rough night against Erebos, God of the Dead and Jor Kadeen, The Prevailer and their removal (we played duel lists just with 40 life, multiplayer) I am really anxious to try him in there. I am almost tempted to try Ground Seal in place of possibly Earthcraft as a meta-call due to all the grave hate I'm getting which really hurts the easiest (IMO) combo option. Getting Yisan may help that, though.
The list from EDH Easter Tournament by Alchimistà Cafe (Biella, Italy) looks solid
Oh wow, he plays a super high number of non-traditional cards (from what I've seen in this thread/MTG Top 8). I'll have to look through that list and see what from it is worth considering for testing. Wonder how many of those are meta calls?
blink--is the lack of the pilgrim the biggest surprise to you???
Price of Glory or War's Toll or Root Maze or Karmic Justice
it would be good against the control
I do not know ... my meta plays only control
I'm desperate...
How good is Vexing Shusher? I've had the same issues as Fixius and have one in the mail on the way but am not 100% on how good he'll be just cause he's dead vs. decks that don't play blue. The Grand Abolisher I am so stoked about though as it is great vs. any deck. He will be answered often but he'll be a 1-for-1 and if he sticks, it will be on opponents turn! I'm digging it. I've tried Dragonlord Dromoka in a few games vs. Keranos, God of Storms and he was answered each time but I never felt bad to have him and if he hadn't been answered he would have won me a few games. So it's your call if you want to use 6 mana for something with little evasion. I'm taking him out for Abolisher, personally because my 6CMC slot is filled with Primeval Titan (more on him in a minute) and Garruk, Caller of Beasts (haven't gotten him yet but I'm going to test).
Blink - I've felt the same way about Purphoros, God of the Forge. Some games he is great and does 10-20 damage easily and he enables combo-win without combat step which is great but other games he is not so great and he curves TERRIBLY IMO. I have cut before, am running now, but he's a maybe cut. I just put in Oblivion Ring over Council's Judgement for the W instead of WW. Is that a good call? I have Mother of Runes on my to-test list but I have Benevolent Bodyguard coming and think he could be better, though I'm not sure. I also run Dauntless Escort and the 3 mana is a drawback but he is soo good when he's good. If I run Mother or Bodyguard, Escort may get the cut. I also run Boros Charm at the moment, too.
I like Primeval Titan but he is really bad vs. Bribery. Even with an answer, the CA given to the opponent is huge. I am considering replacing with Ruric Thar, the Unbowed while Bribery is a thing. He is great vs. control but not bad versus anyone as we run twice as many creatures as non-creatures. What are your thoughts? Haven't seen him mentioned too often here.
Fixius, see my above post for some further comments. I am not sure about Price of Glory but it could work with an altered build-around with more creatures, enchantments & planeswalkers rather than instants but remember it shuts off other things as well (Survival of the Fittest, Earthcraft, Marath, Will of the Wild, Restoration Angel, etc.) during opponents turns (important!). Instead of Root Maze, I'd consider running Blind Obedience. I know the lands don't tap but that really slows us down just as much, too. Karmic Justice is possible if you go the Price of Glory rout, but I care more about my creatures getting destroyed, personally.
I am really liking that War's Toll. I am considering trying it out in the near future. My question: they can tap all their lands at once for mana, right? Still very good roadblock vs. control but big difference.
Here's the thing: he's excellent utility and the fact he's a tutor on an easily-tutorable piece without a drawback is big. He gets every single creature we run CMC 1 or 2. He also gets Fiend Hunter, Eternal Witness, Harmonic Sliver, Knight of the Reliquary, Reclamation Sage, Village Bell-Ringer, Wood Elves, Yisan, the Wanderer Bard, Courser of Kruphix, Oracle of Mul Daya, Solemn Simulacrum, Acidic Slime, Karmic Guide, and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. The last two + VBR are combo pieces and with 11 mana you combo out with just Imperial Recruiter. So he's generally irreplaceable.
That being said, I don't have one either but I've play tested proxy to see if I want to buy and yes, I will buy because he's never dead, but I didn't feel he bolstered my game enough to justify the price at this point in time. Will his price ever drop? Probably not but I'm just hoping waiting six months won't boost the Judge Promo too much.