I finally glanced over the post Riley made for CommanderCast (link in OP). I must say that I like that tier list more than the Cockatrice tier list on here.
I still don't know why you have Olivia up in the A tier on here (seems lower B tier at most imo).
Also, aren't Horde control and Jenera good stuff both just Oath decks? I feel like that should be mentioned.
I personally don't view Isamaru as an upper B tier general- seems lower B. Even if I'm wrong, it should probably be changed to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
I've never seen a Zozu deck in action, but I still like to think that Radha (both zoo and aggro-control varients) are better.
Edit: Animar may also have to go down to upper B, seeing as how it loses to a countered Animar.
I just can't wait to hear about the tournaments this weekend. I wish I lived in France. I've been reading about Emrakul making some splashes in Oath decks and in Jhoira. I can assume Emrakul performs well in both decks. I just wonder how good Jhoira is in French. 4 turns is a long time for a spell to be suspended.
I love French EDH on Cockatrice, I used to try to play it a couple months ago but sometimes had trouble finding a game. If anyone wants to swap contact info or something to play some games let me know. I wiped my hard drive recently, so starting from scratch, though :(.
I love French EDH on Cockatrice, I used to try to play it a couple months ago but sometimes had trouble finding a game. If anyone wants to swap contact info or something to play some games let me know. I wiped my hard drive recently, so starting from scratch, though :(.
Lately on Cockatrice, during the day, I'm seeing an average of 3 French duels going on with about 8 spectators throughout. Compared to a few months ago, there's absolutely a lot more interest in the variant. In hosting games myself, I've found them filling up immediately (albeit often with confused folks who didn't read the title and are playing Mayael). The scene is looking good.
@Virtus: I'm not familiar with Jenara Oath. I had the "good stuff" version in mind for the tier list, which is like Rafiq (minus the instability of relying on Rafiq) or the recent Bant Legacy decks that are big on Clique and swords. Super threat dense with slight counter backup.
Olivia eats the current top tier decks alive. Any number of starting hands are enough to set back the faster aggro-control decks several turns, and if Olivia resolves with mana to spare? It's insurmountable for weenie decks. She's a meta deck in the same way that Gaka's and Abnormality's Damia and Thrax are. Which is to say, really obnoxious for aggro-control players like me, even with my massive shroud-effect abuses. ;P
I've only seen one Thalia deck in action so far, and I wasn't convinced that it's decidedly better than Isamaru. Having turn 1 pressure every game is part of what makes the mono-white archetype work. Slowing that by a whole turn and making your equipment cost another mana is a very different deck, I think. She's got potential, but I just haven't really seen it yet.
Radha's getting there. She can certainly be tailored to wreck the meta. But as a general, she doesn't really bring much to the table other than the ability to be played on turn 2, y'know? I've been enjoying my games playing her and watching her being played, but she seems outclassed by generals with more terrifying abilities in colors that better generate card advantage.
Animar's getting better all the time (many players on Cockatrice are working with Jester's deck and experimenting heavily), and it still steamrolls Black and White decks. That's significant enough to mark it as a top contender, even if it does fold to red decks or Wydwen-esque decks.
@Virtus: I'm not familiar with Jenara Oath. I had the "good stuff" version in mind for the tier list, which is like Rafiq (minus the instability of relying on Rafiq) or the recent Bant Legacy decks that are big on Clique and swords. Super threat dense with slight counter backup.
Olivia eats the current top tier decks alive. Any number of starting hands are enough to set back the faster aggro-control decks several turns, and if Olivia resolves with mana to spare? It's insurmountable for weenie decks. She's a meta deck in the same way that Gaka's and Abnormality's Damia and Thrax are. Which is to say, really obnoxious for aggro-control players like me, even with my massive shroud-effect abuses. ;P
I've only seen one Thalia deck in action so far, and I wasn't convinced that it's decidedly better than Isamaru. Having turn 1 pressure every game is part of what makes the mono-white archetype work. Slowing that by a whole turn and making your equipment cost another mana is a very different deck, I think. She's got potential, but I just haven't really seen it yet.
Radha's getting there. She can certainly be tailored to wreck the meta. But as a general, she doesn't really bring much to the table other than the ability to be played on turn 2, y'know? I've been enjoying my games playing her and watching her being played, but she seems outclassed by generals with more terrifying abilities in colors that better generate card advantage.
Animar's getting better all the time (many players on Cockatrice are working with Jester's deck and experimenting heavily), and it still steamrolls Black and White decks. That's significant enough to mark it as a top contender, even if it does fold to red decks or Wydwen-esque decks.
Ya just a few quick things that I want to add to Riley's thoughts.
The scene is very strong and very healthy. The last few days I've been playing tons of games because I'm laid up in bed. What's great is that I'm seeing new players everyday. Sure a lot of them have unpolished decks, but it is encouraging to see new people play French. Also the variety of decks is huge. I've seen tons of new decks or decks I haven't seen in awhile being used. The variety is nice because it gets boring to play against Karador or Clique all the time. This bodes well for future tournaments we might host.......
Speaking of tournaments, can we organize a big tourney? I have hosted MTG modern tourneys on another forum I visit and so if anyone would be opposed, I might ask the mods if we could start getting this going. I'd like to see tournament played on Cockatrice with pools. I think it would be fun and it'd be nice to follow the French's examples of having frequent tourneys that also let us see what decks are really the most competitive.
I think Virtus is talking about Kwiznek's Jenara enchantress deck. Basically tons of enchantments that slow down your opponent and give you board control. Then you either win with a Oath of Druids which fetches Emrakul or Sigil of the Empty Throne which starts tossing out tons of Angels. The deck is strong. I've talked to him about it a lot and he actually has a physical version built that he used in a California tourney where he placed well.
I haven't seen much Olivia floating around. I think its a strong deck, but I can't say for sure if its a consistent one. It tears up aggro/weenie decks pretty hard if you can land her. I'd need to see more games with her to say that she is super competitive. My guess is that she would be High B, Low A.
I have however seen Thalia and I can say for sure that this is a deck that is highly underrated. Aurion, one of the more present French players on cockatrice, has played her once or twice against Edric(?) and a Geist deck. I'm not going to reveal how he built the deck, but the version I saw is very, very potent. I think that it is honestly a bit better than Isamaru, but again the decks are built differently. I think this is one of those decks that once people catch onto it, it will be a competitive deck and something you will have to play smart against.
I'm on the fence about Radha. Virtus is a close test-partner of mine and he plays her quiet a lot and knows the deck inside and out. I think the deck is good, but I think that it has reached its ceiling in terms of deck building. It really doesn't have a surprised factor and by now I now what to expect. Plus, the deck doesn't mulligan worth ****. I was joking with him the other day that if I see him take a mulligan I'm probably gonna win (sorry bud, love you ). Its a good deck that can take games off of any deck, but I just don't ever see it breaking out. But hey, prove me wrong and make me eat my words.
I've seen a lot of people playing Jester's Animar deck. It's a great deck that many people run incorrectly. Plus, with the recent un-bannings of Painter's Servant which gave it some really strong tech against any other deck, it has gotten stronger. I think that in the coming months once people do run the deck correctly that we will see a lot more Animar played more often. But like Riley said, it has auto-win matchups and auto-lose matchups which makes it hard when you're posting tourney results. I wish the French would play him more often because I think that they underestimate how strong it really is.
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
Whoa, Painter's Servant is legal? Too much fun for my Arbiter
In my experience with 1v1 EDH some decks are super powerful just because they are very easy to build. I think diversity will get better as people learn more and get better.
65 players! That's impressive. Hate to see Edric take another one, but I guess that is just how it goes. Judging from the top 8 it looks like the field was fairly diverse though, which is good. Any chance of seeing some lists?
1: edric goodstuff (thorgal666 on cokatrice)
2: ezuri
3: ruhan
4: karaodor
5: GAA tap out
6: roneoplasm oath
7: omnath
8: iname
7 rounds.
Ruhan and Iname in the top 8! Asimov, would those by mine and Evergreen's lists? If not, I'm very curious what those builds look like!
Also, *yawn* Edric wins again... Is it just my background in statistics, or can pretty much everyone else see something is going on here? Please, unban Tabernacle if Edric is allowed to run free... Bitterblossom I couldn't care less about, but it's obvious Edric is far above most generals. How boring.
Wow, seeing the variety in the Top 8 is really cool. I'm glad someone finally was able to collect a lot of the decklists. Also yeee Iname
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French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
i see no "Jhoira of the ghitu" in the tier list. This is a very competitive general and it should be mentionned here. I won a small tourney with it last week and it made recently some top 8 in big tourneys in the north of France.
Check my list for my list pre-unbans of Emrakul and upheveal (i'd probably update the post to make it a mini-primer someday).
She was literally non-existent on Cockatrice pre-bans (from what I'd seen, anyway). But yeah, I've only seen her in two games so far. Admittedly, the first one was in a game where my butt was solidly whooped (while the other was me spectating vs. a Clique player, and I believe Jhoira won that one, too), so I definitely agree that she has a place on the tier list if her mass destruction game-plan is as consistent as I saw it both sets. Have you been playing her on Cockatrice? What's your experience been like overall?
Also: Skullbriar players on Cockatrice, what has your overall experience been like? I've seen a few interesting lists on Cockatrice, including both aggro and combo builds (I'm not counting my crappy voltron-control build lol). Do you think I should put Skullbriar on the list, too, and where?
I'm tempted to just make "Oath" a general-less deck on the list. Partly to make a statement that it doesn't really matter who the general is, but also because there are several generals running essentially the exact same strategy around that card so it makes sense for Tier-listing purposes. Or else I can just combine the Oath generals into one spot. ****ing oath.
Congrats to Ruhan and Iname for placing high! And congrats to mono-green players as well; that's no easy feat.
I'll update the OP in the near future to reflect the most recent tournament data from this and the tournament Muted and Evergreen were in. Does that make sense? Should I include tournament results into the Tier List from tourneys with just 10 participants? What should the limit be, if any?
EDIT: Oye, I can already see it now, Mealstrom Wanderer Oath...
Also: Skullbriar players on Cockatrice, what has your overall experience been like? I've seen a few interesting lists on Cockatrice, including both aggro and combo builds (I'm not counting my crappy voltron-control build lol). Do you think I should put Skullbriar on the list, too, and where?
If you played Skully correctly, he's fast to beat. I know that's he's good but he's on top 11/75. The typical build that I have online is the usual discard, edicts and stuff... I might thinking on going to control since he's getting bigger every turn. Now, I'm curious about his list now since it's not everyday that you've seen a nonblue deck getting on the top.
I meant to say is that if you played Skullbriar correctly, he'll beat you quickly with the help of some discards and edicts. I know that Skullbriar is fast but I didn't realized that he's near the top 10 decks in the tournament.
Ahhhh, I must have read through that ten times haha.
I've always wanted to live the dream of having a two drop general, but with all the bounce in the format i'm not sure I would play him. I'm interested to see this list.
I would say that green is good because its the best color to be paired with blue, and that blue is still the defining color. Hell, I don't even think that Rofellos could really be that dominating in the format. Other decks are doing much less fair things much faster.
Also, the most important part of considering a deck choice for a specific meta is being able to beat the best deck. Edric is quite obviously the best deck and if you can't hope to beat it then you can't win a tournament.
And players playing Jace/Cryptic/Repeal being able to completely blow you out by coincidence sucks.
I still don't know why you have Olivia up in the A tier on here (seems lower B tier at most imo).
Also, aren't Horde control and Jenera good stuff both just Oath decks? I feel like that should be mentioned.
I personally don't view Isamaru as an upper B tier general- seems lower B. Even if I'm wrong, it should probably be changed to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben.
I've never seen a Zozu deck in action, but I still like to think that Radha (both zoo and aggro-control varients) are better.
Edit: Animar may also have to go down to upper B, seeing as how it loses to a countered Animar.
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Lately on Cockatrice, during the day, I'm seeing an average of 3 French duels going on with about 8 spectators throughout. Compared to a few months ago, there's absolutely a lot more interest in the variant. In hosting games myself, I've found them filling up immediately (albeit often with confused folks who didn't read the title and are playing Mayael). The scene is looking good.
@Virtus: I'm not familiar with Jenara Oath. I had the "good stuff" version in mind for the tier list, which is like Rafiq (minus the instability of relying on Rafiq) or the recent Bant Legacy decks that are big on Clique and swords. Super threat dense with slight counter backup.
Olivia eats the current top tier decks alive. Any number of starting hands are enough to set back the faster aggro-control decks several turns, and if Olivia resolves with mana to spare? It's insurmountable for weenie decks. She's a meta deck in the same way that Gaka's and Abnormality's Damia and Thrax are. Which is to say, really obnoxious for aggro-control players like me, even with my massive shroud-effect abuses. ;P
I've only seen one Thalia deck in action so far, and I wasn't convinced that it's decidedly better than Isamaru. Having turn 1 pressure every game is part of what makes the mono-white archetype work. Slowing that by a whole turn and making your equipment cost another mana is a very different deck, I think. She's got potential, but I just haven't really seen it yet.
Radha's getting there. She can certainly be tailored to wreck the meta. But as a general, she doesn't really bring much to the table other than the ability to be played on turn 2, y'know? I've been enjoying my games playing her and watching her being played, but she seems outclassed by generals with more terrifying abilities in colors that better generate card advantage.
Animar's getting better all the time (many players on Cockatrice are working with Jester's deck and experimenting heavily), and it still steamrolls Black and White decks. That's significant enough to mark it as a top contender, even if it does fold to red decks or Wydwen-esque decks.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Ya just a few quick things that I want to add to Riley's thoughts.
The scene is very strong and very healthy. The last few days I've been playing tons of games because I'm laid up in bed. What's great is that I'm seeing new players everyday. Sure a lot of them have unpolished decks, but it is encouraging to see new people play French. Also the variety of decks is huge. I've seen tons of new decks or decks I haven't seen in awhile being used. The variety is nice because it gets boring to play against Karador or Clique all the time. This bodes well for future tournaments we might host.......
Speaking of tournaments, can we organize a big tourney? I have hosted MTG modern tourneys on another forum I visit and so if anyone would be opposed, I might ask the mods if we could start getting this going. I'd like to see tournament played on Cockatrice with pools. I think it would be fun and it'd be nice to follow the French's examples of having frequent tourneys that also let us see what decks are really the most competitive.
I think Virtus is talking about Kwiznek's Jenara enchantress deck. Basically tons of enchantments that slow down your opponent and give you board control. Then you either win with a Oath of Druids which fetches Emrakul or Sigil of the Empty Throne which starts tossing out tons of Angels. The deck is strong. I've talked to him about it a lot and he actually has a physical version built that he used in a California tourney where he placed well.
I haven't seen much Olivia floating around. I think its a strong deck, but I can't say for sure if its a consistent one. It tears up aggro/weenie decks pretty hard if you can land her. I'd need to see more games with her to say that she is super competitive. My guess is that she would be High B, Low A.
I have however seen Thalia and I can say for sure that this is a deck that is highly underrated. Aurion, one of the more present French players on cockatrice, has played her once or twice against Edric(?) and a Geist deck. I'm not going to reveal how he built the deck, but the version I saw is very, very potent. I think that it is honestly a bit better than Isamaru, but again the decks are built differently. I think this is one of those decks that once people catch onto it, it will be a competitive deck and something you will have to play smart against.
I'm on the fence about Radha. Virtus is a close test-partner of mine and he plays her quiet a lot and knows the deck inside and out. I think the deck is good, but I think that it has reached its ceiling in terms of deck building. It really doesn't have a surprised factor and by now I now what to expect. Plus, the deck doesn't mulligan worth ****. I was joking with him the other day that if I see him take a mulligan I'm probably gonna win (sorry bud, love you
I've seen a lot of people playing Jester's Animar deck. It's a great deck that many people run incorrectly. Plus, with the recent un-bannings of Painter's Servant which gave it some really strong tech against any other deck, it has gotten stronger. I think that in the coming months once people do run the deck correctly that we will see a lot more Animar played more often. But like Riley said, it has auto-win matchups and auto-lose matchups which makes it hard when you're posting tourney results. I wish the French would play him more often because I think that they underestimate how strong it really is.
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
In my experience with 1v1 EDH some decks are super powerful just because they are very easy to build. I think diversity will get better as people learn more and get better.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
Ruhan and Iname in the top 8! Asimov, would those by mine and Evergreen's lists? If not, I'm very curious what those builds look like!
Also, *yawn* Edric wins again... Is it just my background in statistics, or can pretty much everyone else see something is going on here? Please, unban Tabernacle if Edric is allowed to run free... Bitterblossom I couldn't care less about, but it's obvious Edric is far above most generals. How boring.
Sweet. Formal request for geist lists and any odd-ball generals
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Looking forward to the Ruhan list! Thanks in advance
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
skullbriar
I hope we will have the lists for the top 16 available soon. Happy to see both Ruhan and Iname doing so well in a big tournament :).
Who's he?
I'm surprised that Sygg, Thrax, Lyzolda, Olivia Voldaren, Rhys... I have and haven't played those but I've seen them a lot in cockatrice .
esp Ib... I haven't seen him before, that's surprised.
Too bad I have seen Isamaru and not Thalia...
and poor Animar
...
Congrats for those 75 players~!
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
My guess is The Mimeoplasm.
She was literally non-existent on Cockatrice pre-bans (from what I'd seen, anyway). But yeah, I've only seen her in two games so far. Admittedly, the first one was in a game where my butt was solidly whooped (while the other was me spectating vs. a Clique player, and I believe Jhoira won that one, too), so I definitely agree that she has a place on the tier list if her mass destruction game-plan is as consistent as I saw it both sets. Have you been playing her on Cockatrice? What's your experience been like overall?
Also: Skullbriar players on Cockatrice, what has your overall experience been like? I've seen a few interesting lists on Cockatrice, including both aggro and combo builds (I'm not counting my crappy voltron-control build lol). Do you think I should put Skullbriar on the list, too, and where?
I'm tempted to just make "Oath" a general-less deck on the list. Partly to make a statement that it doesn't really matter who the general is, but also because there are several generals running essentially the exact same strategy around that card so it makes sense for Tier-listing purposes. Or else I can just combine the Oath generals into one spot. ****ing oath.
Congrats to Ruhan and Iname for placing high! And congrats to mono-green players as well; that's no easy feat.
I'll update the OP in the near future to reflect the most recent tournament data from this and the tournament Muted and Evergreen were in. Does that make sense? Should I include tournament results into the Tier List from tourneys with just 10 participants? What should the limit be, if any?
EDIT: Oye, I can already see it now, Mealstrom Wanderer Oath...
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
If you played Skully correctly, he's fast to beat. I know that's he's good but he's on top 11/75. The typical build that I have online is the usual discard, edicts and stuff... I might thinking on going to control since he's getting bigger every turn. Now, I'm curious about his list now since it's not everyday that you've seen a nonblue deck getting on the top.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
What?
I meant to say is that if you played Skullbriar correctly, he'll beat you quickly with the help of some discards and edicts. I know that Skullbriar is fast but I didn't realized that he's near the top 10 decks in the tournament.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
I've always wanted to live the dream of having a two drop general, but with all the bounce in the format i'm not sure I would play him. I'm interested to see this list.
Also, the most important part of considering a deck choice for a specific meta is being able to beat the best deck. Edric is quite obviously the best deck and if you can't hope to beat it then you can't win a tournament.
And players playing Jace/Cryptic/Repeal being able to completely blow you out by coincidence sucks.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier