MTG Salvation

Quote from Eriol

3drinks, thanks for your input and explanation for additional card choices. I'm definitely changing my Kaalia deck to be more aggressive and use a reanimator strategy.

Youre welcome man glad i could help. Any other questions fell free to ask i love to chit chat about this deck i

Why not use unburial rites over karmic guide?

Quote from LEAD

Why not use unburial rites over karmic guide?

I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not - but you can cheat out karmic guide with Kaalia which makes it much better. It was errata'd to an angel spirit.

Yep, Capitacom is correct. Also being a critter is much easier to abuse, especially as I run Volrath's Stronghold. Rites is part of the multiplayer package though(I go more reanimator).

Ah I see, I would just think at least with rites you can get 2 creatures back and it flows well with some of the discard in the deck. I'd rather play that even though you can cheat karmic guide it seems kind of a waste since it's rather weak. I rather play rites give my beefy ***** haste and if he is removed bring him back again.

Then again I see the stronghold and I'm like...oh duh.

Quote from LEAD

Ah I see, I would just think at least with rites you can get 2 creatures back and it flows well with some of the discard in the deck. I'd rather play that even though you can cheat karmic guide it seems kind of a waste since it's rather weak. I rather play rites give my beefy ***** haste and if he is removed bring him back again.

It's because Karmic Guide is a critter and therefore just easier to reuse and abuse. There really isn't a way to abuse Unburial Rites. However, I do board it in for multiplayer as I bring in guys like Sun Titan and Sheoldred, Whispering One, where the extra reanimation suite is quite powerful to contend with.

Besides Volrath's Stronghold, how else can Karmic Guide be recurred? I noticed it has protection from black, so I don't think I can use Animate Dead, Unburial Rites, or Shoeldred, Whispering One on it anyway.

Quote from Eriol

Besides Volrath's Stronghold, how else can Karmic Guide be recurred? I noticed it has protection from black, so I don't think I can use Animate Dead, Unburial Rites, or Shoeldred, Whispering One on it anyway.

Hi. Unburial Rites and Sheoldred, Whispering One can both target it just fine, as protection only matters on the battlefield. Likewise Animate Dead can target it, but once it is on the battlefield the protection from black will make the Animate Dead fall off, and thus it will go back to the graveyard(but by this time, you'll have still gotten the trigger from the Karmic Guide).

However, Animate Dead and Necromancy both have their uses, of course, as they can target any graveyard(not just my own like Unburial Rites).

edit: Also, Sword of Light and Shadow is a card, haha.

Quote from 3drinks

Hi. Unburial Rites and Sheoldred, Whispering One can both target it just fine, as protection only matters on the battlefield. Likewise Animate Dead can target it, but once it is on the battlefield the protection from black will make the Animate Dead fall off, and thus it will go back to the graveyard(but by this time, you'll have still gotten the trigger from the Karmic Guide).

However, Animate Dead and Necromancy both have their uses, of course, as they can target any graveyard(not just my own like Unburial Rites).

edit: Also, Sword of Light and Shadow is a card, haha.

Thank you for that clarification. I would have played the Karmic Guide wrong.

I have Sword of Light and Shadow for creature recursion from the very beginning of my Kaalia deck, but I only started adding the other graveyard recursion cards recently.

Quote from Eriol

Thank you for that clarification. I would have played the Karmic Guide wrong.

I have Sword of Light and Shadow for creature recursion from the very beginning of my Kaalia deck, but I only started adding the other graveyard recursion cards recently.

Glad I could be of assistance. As for SoLaS, a lot of people would say it's the "3^rd best sword, it's not strong enough to warrant inclusion" but I have found a multitude of uses for it. As mentioned in the Primer, it's a lock instrument with Yosei, the Morning Star and a sac outlet, but hey, the recursion is great for a deck like mine that plays such a small critical mass of threats, in addition, I really do eat up an awful lot of my life, so it helps me not kill myself haha. It's no SoFaI/SoFaF, but it definitely has more of it's fair share of uses here.

Hi 3drinks,
Ok, I see you have Vindicate in your list. Vindicate is a pricey card. Do you have any suggestions as to what could take its place? (even though they are all probably inferior choices to it). I have Oblation and Chaos Warp, so if there is another tuck card, I would accept that. Thanks.

Quote from Eriol

Hi 3drinks,
Ok, I see you have Vindicate in your list. Vindicate is a pricey card. Do you have any suggestions as to what could take its place? (even though they are all probably inferior choices to it). I have Oblation and Chaos Warp, so if there is another tuck card, I would accept that. Thanks.

Well. Part of me is inclined to believe "no" is the answer, as Vindicate is a 3cmc unconditional removal for any card possible. I'm sure you're quite aware that this is pretty hard to replace. Beast Within/Maelstrom Pulse would be the obvious replacement, but as we aren't in G, they're not available to us.

You mentioned you already have Chaos Warp and Oblation, which seem the closest replacements. After that...it can get kind of sketchy. Perhaps Banishing Stroke? It has the versatility, it is also a tuck, and sometimes it can be cast for W. But it doesn't feel right. Perhaps Orim's Thunder, it has multi-functionality, hitting artifacts/enchantments, and then a creature as well. It's definitely not the same, obviously, but it might be a decent solution until you can get one.

Quote from 3drinks

Well. Part of me is inclined to believe "no" is the answer, as Vindicate is a 3cmc unconditional removal for any card possible. I'm sure you're quite aware that this is pretty hard to replace. Beast Within/Maelstrom Pulse would be the obvious replacement, but as we aren't in G, they're not available to us.

You mentioned you already have Chaos Warp and Oblation, which seem the closest replacements. After that...it can get kind of sketchy. Perhaps Banishing Stroke? It has the versatility, it is also a tuck, and sometimes it can be cast for W. But it doesn't feel right. Perhaps Orim's Thunder, it has multi-functionality, hitting artifacts/enchantments, and then a creature as well. It's definitely not the same, obviously, but it might be a decent solution until you can get one.

I agree that there is probably no good replacement for Vindicate, but I was willing to accept inferior solutions in the meantime. Thank you for offering suggestions.

Mortify is a fairly close replacement for Vindicate, though not as effective.

No problem man. I'm here to help.

3drinks, I updated my multiplayer Kaalia deck in my old thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=391501

I hope you don't mind using your Kaalia image. I credited you with the inspiration. Thanks!

Quote from Eriol

3drinks, I updated my multiplayer Kaalia deck in my old thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=391501

I hope you don't mind using your Kaalia image. I credited you with the inspiration. Thanks!

I don't mind at all, bro, we're all flyin' the same flag here! Once again, I'm glad I've been able to help you to the extent that I have.

I play strictly multi-player and I currently run most of the damage doubling cards, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, True Conviction, Rage Reflection, Wound Reflection, and Gratuitous Violence.

I also like the multiple combat steps cards like Hellkite Charger and Aggravated Assault.

Do you feel these are just win more? I know you cut True Conviction for Gisela because you can cheat her in. I like the idea of theoretically doing 80 damage with a 5/5 flyer, possibly multiple times a round, but that's probably just my Timmy side talking.

Quote from Patryn

I play strictly multi-player and I currently run most of the damage doubling cards, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, True Conviction, Rage Reflection, Wound Reflection, and Gratuitous Violence.

I also like the multiple combat steps cards like Hellkite Charger and Aggravated Assault.

Do you feel these are just win more? I know you cut True Conviction for Gisela because you can cheat her in. I like the idea of theoretically doing 80 damage with a 5/5 flyer, possibly multiple times a round, but that's probably just my Timmy side talking.

Hi Patryn. I could support the addition of damage doubling effects in multiplayer, I suppose. But at what point do they actually help out versus the times when they're mostly dead(high mana commitment, sometimes you can't always use them)? I would probably agree with the assessment that most of the time, if you're activating these, you were probably already winning. I did used to run SoFaF + Aggravated Assault for a while, but AA was dead a lot of the time so I moved away from it.

I did cut Conviction for Gisela, as I feel it is more efficient. TC costs six mana, which is a lot(man, I feel like I'm playing Legacy haha). In multiplayer I believe it should definitely be in a deck as aggressive as this deck appears to be to anyone else. The lifelink in 1v1 I don't feel as if I need as much from it anymore as I picked up Griselbrand and a few other life buffering effects.

Does this help you?

Quote from Patryn

I play strictly multi-player and I currently run most of the damage doubling cards, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, True Conviction, Rage Reflection, Wound Reflection, and Gratuitous Violence.

I also like the multiple combat steps cards like Hellkite Charger and Aggravated Assault.

Do you feel these are just win more? I know you cut True Conviction for Gisela because you can cheat her in. I like the idea of theoretically doing 80 damage with a 5/5 flyer, possibly multiple times a round, but that's probably just my Timmy side talking.

In my casual multiplayer build (non-combo meta), I have both True Conviction and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. It keeps me alive a lot longer while my opponents scramble to deal with the cards. However, I am not locked to True Conviction. I usually swap it for something else to keep things interesting.

Hello, I read your primer, loaded the deck into tappedout.net and gave it a few goes and loved it. I am currently building your version as I do not have the time nor the brainpower to build a commander deck that works.

I have a few questions on card choices you've used. I'm going to preface this by saying that I am a new commander player, so some of my judgments are based off of not knowing just how a card works.

Liliana of the Veil: I guess playing it to -2 can be good, but I'm not sure how else I should use her. I'm not sure about using +1 with few strategies of returning those cards/using them from the graveyard.

Ajani Vengeant: Lightning helix is nice, prevent a permanent from untapping is nice, but I just haven't seen him being very good.

Hall of the Bandit Lord: Unless you play it on turns 1-3, I cannot see this card being usable unless you also happen to have stoneforge mystic in your hand.

Rakdos the Defiler: I guess that causing massive sacrificing is good, but I'm not sure of the uses for this card.

Quote from Dakarai

Hello, I read your primer, loaded the deck into tappedout.net and gave it a few goes and loved it. I am currently building your version as I do not have the time nor the brainpower to build a commander deck that works.

I have a few questions on card choices you've used. I'm going to preface this by saying that I am a new commander player, so some of my judgments are based off of not knowing just how a card works.

Liliana of the Veil: I guess playing it to -2 can be good, but I'm not sure how else I should use her. I'm not sure about using +1 with few strategies of returning those cards/using them from the graveyard.

Ajani Vengeant: Lightning helix is nice, prevent a permanent from untapping is nice, but I just haven't seen him being very good.

Hall of the Bandit Lord: Unless you play it on turns 1-3, I cannot see this card being usable unless you also happen to have stoneforge mystic in your hand.

Rakdos the Defiler: I guess that causing massive sacrificing is good, but I'm not sure of the uses for this card.

Hi Dakarai. Thanks for your questions.

Liliana of the Veil- I play her both for the -2, and the +1. The +1 helps against control decks stockpiling cards in hand(I also play Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace for this purpose as well). They have both been quite relevant for me. If I ever get the -6 to go off(which I never expect) it should just win the game on the spot for me.

Ajani Vengeant- Also strong against control, and compliments my mana denial strategies like Sinkhole, Armageddon, and slows people down a whole turn a lot of the time. Another one where I don't expect the ultimate to go off, but if it does, I will just win on the spot. I understand that a lot of people frown on Mass LD, but this is a competitive 1v1 list, so I go all-in and use every resource available to me in order to win. Every time I have ultimated Ajani(which has been several times) I have gone on to win 100% of the time.

Hall of the Bandit Lord- This is the king land of the deck. It is my primary haste enabler, and it only takes up a land slot. Lightning Bolting your face usally doesn't matter when you smack someone for 7-10 in one shot, and usually mess up their board state somehow. As I play a lot of targeted discard, opponents will rarely have removal so Kaalia gets a free swing, and unless they top deck an answer, one more free swing.

Rakdos the Defiler- As Maurice mentioned, Rakdos is the elementary combo piece, the bread and butter tactic. Much like Flameblast Dragon, Victory's Herald, and Hellkite Charger, Rakdos has an ability that triggers when he is declared as an attacker. Because of the timing with Kaalia's triggered ability, it is after the declare attackers step, so there is no risk in utilizing Rakdos on the first swing. And, the longer the game goes on, the stronger Rakdos gets(because they will usually have more permanents on the board in a long game). Once in awhile, I will even attack with him again, if I feel it will lock it out. Not very often, to be sure, but it has happened on occasion. It is really no issue that he only swings once most of the time, because he is so backbreaking on that single swing. Sometimes he even stays around as a blocker, or even dies to something else, or I get a Phyrexian Tower to send him to the grave then return him with Volrath's Stronghold or Sword of Light and Shadow(which is just plain dirty).

Thanks a lot. I understand now. Not to mention, playing a planeswalker diverts your opponent's focus for 1-2 turns, which might save the game

Quote from Dakarai

Thanks a lot. I understand now. Not to mention, playing a planeswalker diverts your opponent's focus for 1-2 turns, which might save the game

Absolutely. And, it may even survive the attack and come back to completely swing the game in your favour. Like I once played Ajani Vengeant turn 2 via Sol Ring...versus my Skullbriar opponent, already down a card for playing Gemstone Caverns on turn 0. And when he tried to ignore him and go after me, it was over. It took him way too long to attempt to whittle Ajani down, and by that point, I had Kaalia online, and ripped Demonic Tutor(found Griselbrand, as I had 0 cards in hand).

Also, it's worth noting that they are so not worth playing in multiplayer. They will never survive to come back to your turn again. So in case you are planning on playing this in multiplayer, leave the 'walkers at home.

Quote from 3drinks

Rakdos the Defiler- As Maurice mentioned, Rakdos is the elementary combo piece, the bread and butter tactic. Much like Flameblast Dragon, Victory's Herald, and Hellkite Charger, Rakdos has an ability that triggers when he is declared as an attacker. Because of the timing with Kaalia's triggered ability, it is after the declare attackers step, so there is no risk in utilizing Rakdos on the first swing. And, the longer the game goes on, the stronger Rakdos gets(because they will usually have more permanents on the board in a long game). Once in awhile, I will even attack with him again, if I feel it will lock it out. Not very often, to be sure, but it has happened on occasion. It is really no issue that he only swings once most of the time, because he is so backbreaking on that single swing. Sometimes he even stays around as a blocker, or even dies to something else, or I get a Phyrexian Tower to send him to the grave then return him with Volrath's Stronghold or Sword of Light and Shadow(which is just plain dirty).

I use Blood Clock it's backbreaking for decks that rely on permanents staying in play specially those that play many CitPT lands, and lets me hit many times with Rakdos, and bounce good CitP creatures like Stoneforge.