I'll chime in here and corroborate 3drinks' observation about Rakdos, Lord of Riots. While having a way to cast our spells for just their colored mana costs, you're still relatively gated to just 1 or 2 Kaalia targets from Rakdos' trigger. My wife tried Rakdos in her build and it really didn't do a whole lot. While cool in theory, I don't think it's good enough to be a maindeck target.
I'll chime in here and corroborate 3drinks' observation about Rakdos, Lord of Riots. While having a way to cast our spells for just their colored mana costs, you're still relatively gated to just 1 or 2 Kaalia targets from Rakdos' trigger. My wife tried Rakdos in her build and it really didn't do a whole lot. While cool in theory, I don't think it's good enough to be a maindeck target.
This. For example when he's the commander, you start playing, say, Wurmcoils, Ulamog Crushers, and Bane of Bala Geds for free that's of course really great. We're just not equipped to maximize an otherwise mediocre, French vanilla beatstick under normal circumstances.
Agreed on all points. Kaalia does what Rakdos is trying to do, but better for Kaalia as a deck. Building around Rakdos would be much more effective since you can incorporate the heavier colorless creature spells. Ancestral Statue suddenly becomes a combo piece when Rakdos connects and can kill the table via Purphoros or Impact Tremors whereas the Statue is actually worthless cardboard in a Kaalia list, as an example of the niche use that Rakdos has. Being able to circumvent ALL parts of the Kaalia target's casting cost is super valuable, particularly since you can use that mana for other cards. I like Stax pieces for a multi-player game, as the multi-player Primer in my sig shows (shout-out to 3drinks for being the inspiration for that Primer, btw!).
Turns out hitting CCC is a pretty hard trick in a 3c white border deck, so I've removed Necropotence. I have, however, had reasonable success with Jalum Tome in it's place!
I just can't with dragonstorm anymore. I love the card, the hoops jumped through to make it work, but at the end of the day, Kaalia just isn't built for this strategy. The setup is immense, the number of deck slots is high, and overall this leaves the deck to vulnerable to be able to reasonably suggest it to a player. These issues are magnified when compared to the smoothness and ease of assembly in the contract version of the deck that merely asks to play demons over the rest.
I'm going to be transitioning the dragonstorm version to a Worldgorger combo deck instead, which has the benefits of utilizing all the typical tricks we have while merely asking for 3 - 4 slots for the combo (typically buried alive/entomb, WGD, and one of the rez auras with a mana sink to win with). Typically your mana sink will be Shivan Hellkite since it's a reasonable dragon to use, however aurelia's fury and comet storm both can table kill and don't rely on an extra permanent to stick to the board.
First of all, thanks for this primer, it's great, I realized after some recent playtests, that my Kaliaa deck is really NOT good
I'm working on updating it, and although it's mostly for MP games, it's still very interesting to read about 1vs1 match-up strategy.
I've seen many people playing with Sire of Insanity in their Kaliaa deck, I always felt that this cards was too disruptive to my own hand; I tend to always have some spot / mass removal, or any other type of answers.... Is this card really that good in this deck? Is it mostly for 1vs1 match up? I'm just curious.
Also, has anyone tried Experimental Frenzy? Considering that with Kaliaa we're basically dropping creature from our hand... Playing the top of the lib seems like a good way to not disrupt that hand, no?
Other cards I've been playing but didn't see much mention is:
- Quicksilver Amulet; sure it's 8 mana to drop a creature, but it's instant speed drop, and you don't to wait a turn for Kaliaa to attack in order to get the creature out.
- Anger to not have to wait to gain haste Sadly, I currently dont have an easy way to put it in my graveyard (love the idea of Liliana for it)
Are those cards just not recommended?
I've seen many people playing with Sire of Insanity in their Kaliaa deck, I always felt that this cards was too disruptive to my own hand; I tend to always have some spot / mass removal, or any other type of answers.... Is this card really that good in this deck? Is it mostly for 1vs1 match up? I'm just curious.
Other cards I've been playing but didn't see much mention is:
- Quicksilver Amulet; sure it's 8 mana to drop a creature, but it's instant speed drop, and you don't to wait a turn for Kaliaa to attack in order to get the creature out.
- Anger to not have to wait to gain haste Sadly, I currently dont have an easy way to put it in my graveyard (love the idea of Liliana for it)
Are those cards just not recommended?
Yes, Sire is absolutely incredible. As you'll learn from the primer, our primary objective is to establish a board state where we can attack safely, profitably, and repeatedly, with our commander. Sire literally prevents any instant speed answers on our turn, or on anyone else's, while having a relevant creature type and a respectable clock. Once Kaalia is set up, we're working on the assumption we spent our resources establishing the board state with most our cards in hand and now we are predicted to have the better top deck with our gluttony of strong tutours and strong creatures while everyone else is crippled. If you're playing without Sire, you're playing a very inadequate deck. He is absolutely a corre card.
If you'll see, the Amulet was in back in the day and has run itself out over the years. This deck is an eight year old primer in a format where the average lifespan of a deck is four to six months. An incredible feat that speaks volumes to the overwhelming popularity of Kaalia herself, even amidst the reputation the non-players will take towards her. I digress. Anyway, the Amulet even over two turns is still 8 for one threat and 12 for two. That's a pretty rough cost with a poor scaling rate......try Sneak Attack instead.
Anger is fine if you're playing Entomb, and probably Buried Alive or Faithless Looting too. I don't play it because it was the nonly reasonable target for Entomb and I had other more deserving deck slots instead. Although, it will be making it's way into the Worldgorger combo build since the Entomb would be good with the signature combo or the incarnation.
Never saw this, in the future if you could quote or reply to me so I can see the notification, I can reply in a more timely manner. I'd appreciate it!
Not sure if this was addressed to me; if so, my bad, as I mentioned, I just came back after several years of hiatus.
Heck, I can't even access my old account anymore It's still there I just can't log in anymore as the site now requires a 'social media login'... sigh...
Yes, Sire is absolutely incredible. As you'll learn from the primer, our primary objective is to establish a board state where we can attack safely, profitably, and repeatedly, with our commander. Sire literally prevents any instant speed answers on our turn, or on anyone else's, while having a relevant creature type and a respectable clock. Once Kaalia is set up, we're working on the assumption we spent our resources establishing the board state with most our cards in hand and now we are predicted to have the better top deck with our gluttony of strong tutours and strong creatures while everyone else is crippled. If you're playing without Sire, you're playing a very inadequate deck. He is absolutely a corre card.
Interesting I guess I'll need to try him out.
Considering that I need to completely re-do my deck, I'll have to keep that in mind.
My current version was more fill with 'responsive' answers, cards like: cloudshift, boros charm, magmaquake, and other cheap CMC removals....
If you'll see, the Amulet was in back in the day and has run itself out over the years. This deck is an eight year old primer in a format where the average lifespan of a deck is four to six months. An incredible feat that speaks volumes to the overwhelming popularity of Kaalia herself, even amidst the reputation the non-players will take towards her. I digress. Anyway, the Amulet even over two turns is still 8 for one threat and 12 for two. That's a pretty rough cost with a poor scaling rate......try Sneak Attack instead.
I'll have to see if I have a copy (although I doubt it) of Sneak Attack, this card ain't cheap
Also, I think this cards requires Volrath's Stronghold a card that I've been eyeing for years... and haven't got a chance to grab yet.
Anger is fine if you're playing Entomb, and probably Buried Alive or Faithless Looting too. I don't play it because it was the nonly reasonable target for Entomb and I had other more deserving deck slots instead. Although, it will be making it's way into the Worldgorger combo build since the Entomb would be good with the signature combo or the incarnation.
Yeah it's true that ideally you want to have way to dump Anger in your graveyard... But you may not need Entomb; Liliana of the Veil is also pretty good for it.
I guess that previous reply came off overly harsh, if so my apologies. This site is so weird in giving notifications. When I'm on mobile it doesn't show me last posters and so I don't always slide into the subforum to check things that way.
There really isn't a suitable alternative to Volrath's Stronghold. There's Unholy Grotto as the closest, but uhh...wrong type. >_< I've seen some people use Phyrexian Reclamation to good effect (it's faster), though 2 life/card adds up (the Greed rate) and an enchantment is more vulnerable than a land.
Sire of Insanity doesn't really require that, no. He robs everyone of their surprises, answers, and threats, as well as forces them to deal with him plus the looming Kaalia in the skies. It's a rough situation (for them). We don't really care because...like, that's still eight power on the board. That's sizable.
Sneak Attack is a pretty unique card, pretty hard to replicate. You could go one-shot via Through the Breach but like, isn't that just more than Sneak Attack? So like, why not just buy Sneak Attack lol?
When you're looking at haste outlets, your #1 is Hall of the Bandit Lord followed closely by Dragon Tempest. You have Lightning Greaves right after that, then the other footwear if you wanted. Where does Anger fit? Not only that, but where are the slots to fit in the cards that make Anger work, because you're not just putting it in the deck and going off to the races right?
OMG - Royal Assassin bring up very old and good memories
I used to play it with Master Decoy
Sadly in my playgroup, even my Kaalia is considered not a threat due to CEDH influence of Hulk, Food Chain and Paradox Scepter combos.
I bring her out against 75% and I am still doing decent.
I mean, they're not wrong. Kaaliaisn't a cEDH deck. It's just not. Alesha isn't a cEDH deck. Edgar Markov isn't (ignore my soloing a 4way game with it earlier >_>). A cEDH deck is comprised of winning in spite of disruption, can win the game by t4 with an average of t3, egregiously breaks otherwise asymmetrical cards (a la Derevi, Edric, Food Chain), and most importantly it has Islands in it.
cEDH is a horribly small, solved format with so little room for anything at the top I question why people even play it. Does it make them feel better to flex on casual players and pubstomp them with a "superior deck"? Not like there's any official sanctioned events, and commander isn't going on the pro tour or a grand prix any time soon. So like...what do they have to prove? "Grats, you bullied Timmy's craw wurm tribal deck with your Tymna-Thrassios Flash Hulk deck. Do you feel special now?"
Ofcourse, I agree when its Cedh against Timmy decks. I initially thought this as well.
now I have 2 cedh decks and I honestly enjoy them quite a bit when and if the table is right (all 4 players playing cedh decks).
Theres a nuance to playing your spells on the right time/moment and when to attack/block or when to counter.
cEDH is just...idk, to me it's an exercise in futility. It's where the arms race ends up if you don't get your group to de-nuclearize in time. I enjoy proper sequencing and playing hard, fast, and clean of course (if I didn't I'd never have written this primer), but I......maybe it's because I don't have a cEDH deck, but it all seems so coin flippy, even more so than Vintage can be.
cEDH is just...idk, to me it's an exercise in futility. It's where the arms race ends up if you don't get your group to de-nuclearize in time. I enjoy proper sequencing and playing hard, fast, and clean of course (if I didn't I'd never have written this primer), but I......maybe it's because I don't have a cEDH deck, but it all seems so coin flippy, even more so than Vintage can be.
Ah, the perspective of the uninitiated. As an avid cEDH player, I can confirm that multi-player cEDH games are intricate, thought-provoking, and just as enjoyable as a regular EDH game. However, this experience is MASSIVELY contingent on everyone agreeing to play cEDH with the mindset that cEDH requires. There's an introductory article in the cEDH forums that explains it somewhat, and wholeheartedly agreeing to that social contract is paramount in order to properly enjoy a cEDH game. While there are some bad apples in the cEDH crowd that like to pubstomp non-cEDH decks, they are becoming more of an exception instead of the rule I think (I could totally be wrong on this observation though). There has been a collective agreement in the various cEDH platforms that a true cEDH player will only play a cEDH deck if the rest of the table is cool with it; we're all pretty adamant in self-enforcing the social contract.
When everyone is playing high-power combos and disruption, sequencing and CMC considerations become paramount and produce some very satisfying wins. Taking advantage of the stack and table position regularly comes up and you no longer need Islands in order to be truly competitive; there's a Gitrog Dredge list that is absurdly consistent at winning overtop of disruption and removal effects! The perspective of being able to win on T4 through disruption is relatively accurate, but more often than not it DOESN'T happen. You see, there's always a proportion of Stax players playing amidst combo players, or there's often someone with interaction up to stop your combo, so there are several speed bumps that a combo deck needs to navigate in order to execute their combo. It's true that cEDH is often about trying to execute your strategy as often as possible but there is a much higher degree of interaction and answers present in a cEDH game then what I've experienced in a regular EDH game, making it much more difficult to win uninterrupted. As the resident Stax player in my group (depending on if my wife plays her Kaalia deck or not), I will confirm that there is nothing quite so satisfying as punishing those highly-tuned Combo lists with the Kaalia Stax list I represent.
TL;dr I totally agree with Jeff here, and encourage you to check out the cEDH forums that I initiated. My Kaalia Stax list is featured there as a Primer and it often does really well at a cEDH table regardless of how many Combo decks and Islands there are present in the game!
I just fine cEDH to be much more the vocal minority than the majority of games you find at the LGS. I have more fun putting the tuning in for, say, Alesha Bird[shit] Monarchy than I do facing down the horrors of Derevi and Edric and Food Chain every game. It's tiring, and sometimes I just want to relax and do bird or sliver things.
Though I do suspect that Contract Kaalia with WGD backup could be a contender for the odd cEDH game, what am I competing for here? I'm building hot and heavy for what, a game maybe two?
It simply depends on what type of game you want to have. Looking for a game that plays more akin to Vintage and utilizes skills most closely associated with Constructed competitive Magic formats? cEDH is for you. Looking for Alesha Monarchy or fun Sliver synergies? Go ahead and play some battlecruiser Commander. It also helps if you have a regular cEDH game so that the fine-tuning and deck-building you do isn't totally wasted, heh. I readily admit that cEDH is a vocal minority, and I'm ok with that. I'm hoping that I can be an effective ambassador of its merits to the general EDH crowd here on MTGSal!
I'll again mention that my Kaalia Stax list does quite well. People initially dismiss it as Kaalia Goodstuff.dec and then get trashed by the Stax and Hate pieces I play. Super satisfying to mercilessly destroy other BLue players' dreams and combos with Kaalia's wrath! The core strategy of your Kaalia deck was instrumental in its tuning, so another shout-out to you here, my dude.
That's actually kinda funny you mention that, I was rocking Alesha last night over my lunch at work, and all the time I found myself constantly bringing back the etb monarch guys (I play all three of them). Like that's the strongest non mana denial strat Alesha can use. Two nights before, I did the same in a pod of Windgrace, Kess, and Dagsson and drew upwards of 15 cards on monarch alone because they couldn't take it from me. And if they did, I took it right back (using bird[shit] over slivers so flyers and tokens yay). I wouldn't really call it battle cruiser since the deck curves out at five and wins with overwhelming CA rather than big bomby, splashy plays a-typical of the average commander game.
There's just not enough cEDH I'm exposed to to justify building to that degree in this region. Or I'm at the wrong places. If I'm not playing for money, not grinding the pro tour, my co-workers don't want to play at that level (which I can't even use my MLD here, so that's a forced learning opportunity for me to find an alt strat as well)...then what am I doing? You know? So I can only exercise my deck building philosophies within the confines of what I'm expecting to face, which right now is Gishath Dinos, Rats, more Rats, and a GAAIV theft based deck. Or the occasional game at the LGS but I can't prep for those, players come in running the gamut of first decks to Derevi STAX.
Updated! Both the main text of the primer, and the alternate strats, and a distinct multiplayer route to play. Reads more modern to commander today but most importantly I'm happy to have a real multiplayer section to point people toward.
That's actually kinda funny you mention that, I was rocking Alesha last night over my lunch at work, and all the time I found myself constantly bringing back the etb monarch guys (I play all three of them). Like that's the strongest non mana denial strat Alesha can use. Two nights before, I did the same in a pod of Windgrace, Kess, and Dagsson and drew upwards of 15 cards on monarch alone because they couldn't take it from me. And if they did, I took it right back (using bird[shit] over slivers so flyers and tokens yay). I wouldn't really call it battle cruiser since the deck curves out at five and wins with overwhelming CA rather than big bomby, splashy plays a-typical of the average commander game.
There's just not enough cEDH I'm exposed to to justify building to that degree in this region. Or I'm at the wrong places. If I'm not playing for money, not grinding the pro tour, my co-workers don't want to play at that level (which I can't even use my MLD here, so that's a forced learning opportunity for me to find an alt strat as well)...then what am I doing? You know? So I can only exercise my deck building philosophies within the confines of what I'm expecting to face, which right now is Gishath Dinos, Rats, more Rats, and a GAAIV theft based deck. Or the occasional game at the LGS but I can't prep for those, players come in running the gamut of first decks to Derevi STAX.
Agreed on your perspective here. The playgroup that I consistently play with are all comfortable playing at a cEDH level and in fact prefer to play at a cEDH level. The social contract is indeed a real thing to consider when brewing up a decklist, so I totally understand why you don't play cEDH.
Also, I'm sad my dedicated Multi-Player Primer didn't get a mention in your new Multi-Player section...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
This. For example when he's the commander, you start playing, say, Wurmcoils, Ulamog Crushers, and Bane of Bala Geds for free that's of course really great. We're just not equipped to maximize an otherwise mediocre, French vanilla beatstick under normal circumstances.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'm going to be transitioning the dragonstorm version to a Worldgorger combo deck instead, which has the benefits of utilizing all the typical tricks we have while merely asking for 3 - 4 slots for the combo (typically buried alive/entomb, WGD, and one of the rez auras with a mana sink to win with). Typically your mana sink will be Shivan Hellkite since it's a reasonable dragon to use, however aurelia's fury and comet storm both can table kill and don't rely on an extra permanent to stick to the board.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
*Old player trying to do a come back here ;-)*
First of all, thanks for this primer, it's great, I realized after some recent playtests, that my Kaliaa deck is really NOT good
I'm working on updating it, and although it's mostly for MP games, it's still very interesting to read about 1vs1 match-up strategy.
I've seen many people playing with Sire of Insanity in their Kaliaa deck, I always felt that this cards was too disruptive to my own hand; I tend to always have some spot / mass removal, or any other type of answers.... Is this card really that good in this deck? Is it mostly for 1vs1 match up? I'm just curious.
Also, has anyone tried Experimental Frenzy? Considering that with Kaliaa we're basically dropping creature from our hand... Playing the top of the lib seems like a good way to not disrupt that hand, no?
Other cards I've been playing but didn't see much mention is:
- Quicksilver Amulet; sure it's 8 mana to drop a creature, but it's instant speed drop, and you don't to wait a turn for Kaliaa to attack in order to get the creature out.
- Anger to not have to wait to gain haste Sadly, I currently dont have an easy way to put it in my graveyard (love the idea of Liliana for it)
Are those cards just not recommended?
Thanks,
Kandjar
Yes, Sire is absolutely incredible. As you'll learn from the primer, our primary objective is to establish a board state where we can attack safely, profitably, and repeatedly, with our commander. Sire literally prevents any instant speed answers on our turn, or on anyone else's, while having a relevant creature type and a respectable clock. Once Kaalia is set up, we're working on the assumption we spent our resources establishing the board state with most our cards in hand and now we are predicted to have the better top deck with our gluttony of strong tutours and strong creatures while everyone else is crippled. If you're playing without Sire, you're playing a very inadequate deck. He is absolutely a corre card.
If you'll see, the Amulet was in back in the day and has run itself out over the years. This deck is an eight year old primer in a format where the average lifespan of a deck is four to six months. An incredible feat that speaks volumes to the overwhelming popularity of Kaalia herself, even amidst the reputation the non-players will take towards her. I digress. Anyway, the Amulet even over two turns is still 8 for one threat and 12 for two. That's a pretty rough cost with a poor scaling rate......try Sneak Attack instead.
Anger is fine if you're playing Entomb, and probably Buried Alive or Faithless Looting too. I don't play it because it was the nonly reasonable target for Entomb and I had other more deserving deck slots instead. Although, it will be making it's way into the Worldgorger combo build since the Entomb would be good with the signature combo or the incarnation.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Not sure if this was addressed to me; if so, my bad, as I mentioned, I just came back after several years of hiatus.
Heck, I can't even access my old account anymore It's still there I just can't log in anymore as the site now requires a 'social media login'... sigh...
Interesting I guess I'll need to try him out.
Considering that I need to completely re-do my deck, I'll have to keep that in mind.
My current version was more fill with 'responsive' answers, cards like: cloudshift, boros charm, magmaquake, and other cheap CMC removals....
I'll have to see if I have a copy (although I doubt it) of Sneak Attack, this card ain't cheap
Also, I think this cards requires Volrath's Stronghold a card that I've been eyeing for years... and haven't got a chance to grab yet.
Come to think of it; doesn't Sire of Insanity also requires Volrath's Stronghold to be fully efficient? Letting you grab whatever u discarded as potential threat?
Do you have alternative to suggest for Volrath's Stronghold?
Yeah it's true that ideally you want to have way to dump Anger in your graveyard... But you may not need Entomb; Liliana of the Veil is also pretty good for it.
There really isn't a suitable alternative to Volrath's Stronghold. There's Unholy Grotto as the closest, but uhh...wrong type. >_< I've seen some people use Phyrexian Reclamation to good effect (it's faster), though 2 life/card adds up (the Greed rate) and an enchantment is more vulnerable than a land.
Sire of Insanity doesn't really require that, no. He robs everyone of their surprises, answers, and threats, as well as forces them to deal with him plus the looming Kaalia in the skies. It's a rough situation (for them). We don't really care because...like, that's still eight power on the board. That's sizable.
Sneak Attack is a pretty unique card, pretty hard to replicate. You could go one-shot via Through the Breach but like, isn't that just more than Sneak Attack? So like, why not just buy Sneak Attack lol?
When you're looking at haste outlets, your #1 is Hall of the Bandit Lord followed closely by Dragon Tempest. You have Lightning Greaves right after that, then the other footwear if you wanted. Where does Anger fit? Not only that, but where are the slots to fit in the cards that make Anger work, because you're not just putting it in the deck and going off to the races right?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I used to play it with Master Decoy
Sadly in my playgroup, even my Kaalia is considered not a threat due to CEDH influence of Hulk, Food Chain and Paradox Scepter combos.
I bring her out against 75% and I am still doing decent.
cEDH is a horribly small, solved format with so little room for anything at the top I question why people even play it. Does it make them feel better to flex on casual players and pubstomp them with a "superior deck"? Not like there's any official sanctioned events, and commander isn't going on the pro tour or a grand prix any time soon. So like...what do they have to prove? "Grats, you bullied Timmy's craw wurm tribal deck with your Tymna-Thrassios Flash Hulk deck. Do you feel special now?"
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
now I have 2 cedh decks and I honestly enjoy them quite a bit when and if the table is right (all 4 players playing cedh decks).
Theres a nuance to playing your spells on the right time/moment and when to attack/block or when to counter.
love both 75% and CEDH quite the same.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Ah, the perspective of the uninitiated. As an avid cEDH player, I can confirm that multi-player cEDH games are intricate, thought-provoking, and just as enjoyable as a regular EDH game. However, this experience is MASSIVELY contingent on everyone agreeing to play cEDH with the mindset that cEDH requires. There's an introductory article in the cEDH forums that explains it somewhat, and wholeheartedly agreeing to that social contract is paramount in order to properly enjoy a cEDH game. While there are some bad apples in the cEDH crowd that like to pubstomp non-cEDH decks, they are becoming more of an exception instead of the rule I think (I could totally be wrong on this observation though). There has been a collective agreement in the various cEDH platforms that a true cEDH player will only play a cEDH deck if the rest of the table is cool with it; we're all pretty adamant in self-enforcing the social contract.
When everyone is playing high-power combos and disruption, sequencing and CMC considerations become paramount and produce some very satisfying wins. Taking advantage of the stack and table position regularly comes up and you no longer need Islands in order to be truly competitive; there's a Gitrog Dredge list that is absurdly consistent at winning overtop of disruption and removal effects! The perspective of being able to win on T4 through disruption is relatively accurate, but more often than not it DOESN'T happen. You see, there's always a proportion of Stax players playing amidst combo players, or there's often someone with interaction up to stop your combo, so there are several speed bumps that a combo deck needs to navigate in order to execute their combo. It's true that cEDH is often about trying to execute your strategy as often as possible but there is a much higher degree of interaction and answers present in a cEDH game then what I've experienced in a regular EDH game, making it much more difficult to win uninterrupted. As the resident Stax player in my group (depending on if my wife plays her Kaalia deck or not), I will confirm that there is nothing quite so satisfying as punishing those highly-tuned Combo lists with the Kaalia Stax list I represent.
TL;dr I totally agree with Jeff here, and encourage you to check out the cEDH forums that I initiated. My Kaalia Stax list is featured there as a Primer and it often does really well at a cEDH table regardless of how many Combo decks and Islands there are present in the game!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Though I do suspect that Contract Kaalia with WGD backup could be a contender for the odd cEDH game, what am I competing for here? I'm building hot and heavy for what, a game maybe two?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'll again mention that my Kaalia Stax list does quite well. People initially dismiss it as Kaalia Goodstuff.dec and then get trashed by the Stax and Hate pieces I play. Super satisfying to mercilessly destroy other BLue players' dreams and combos with Kaalia's wrath! The core strategy of your Kaalia deck was instrumental in its tuning, so another shout-out to you here, my dude.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
There's just not enough cEDH I'm exposed to to justify building to that degree in this region. Or I'm at the wrong places. If I'm not playing for money, not grinding the pro tour, my co-workers don't want to play at that level (which I can't even use my MLD here, so that's a forced learning opportunity for me to find an alt strat as well)...then what am I doing? You know? So I can only exercise my deck building philosophies within the confines of what I'm expecting to face, which right now is Gishath Dinos, Rats, more Rats, and a GAAIV theft based deck. Or the occasional game at the LGS but I can't prep for those, players come in running the gamut of first decks to Derevi STAX.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Agreed on your perspective here. The playgroup that I consistently play with are all comfortable playing at a cEDH level and in fact prefer to play at a cEDH level. The social contract is indeed a real thing to consider when brewing up a decklist, so I totally understand why you don't play cEDH.
Also, I'm sad my dedicated Multi-Player Primer didn't get a mention in your new Multi-Player section...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I updated to shout you out as well, and my thoughts on the stax route as it relates to Kaalia. Sorry I overlooked that.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Oh, I see, it's broke on my desktop too.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.