hello, friends!
i began to play this deck several weeks ago. I start to play Asimov's list with cutting qurion ranger into sybiote by his advice
now i have several new questions
1) after testing a lot i felt that we need draw engines very much. So what about Primordial Sage or_and Soul of the Harvest? it is glimpse wich very fits our plan
2) very difficult and skillentesive match against Narset and other heavy blue controls. Very difficult to play around counters, pyroclasms and wrath. May be cards like city of solitude or dosan can help
1. Primordial Sage has been in past builds of the deck and is generally found to be too expensive (both at 6 mana and GG) for what this deck wants. Glimpse and Cloudstone provide essentially infinite card draw and a huge chunk of our creatures draw us cards in one way or another. Kozilek plus bounce creatures is also a pretty solid way to draw 8+ cards.
2. The match ups are difficult, but every deck has a weakness. Mainboarding bad cards like City of Solitude or Dosan, the Falling Leaf dilute our deck and are pretty bad in a lot of match ups. If you wanted a Dosan-like effect, Gaea's Herald performs decently (less color intensive). Daze is a powerful tool, and Cursecatcher can find a home in the deck.
3. Is Arcane Laboratory much of a real thing? I wouldn't worry too much about it. Even if they managed to have it in their opener, it's a pretty slow answer to us, especially if we're on the play. That being said, a lot of lists run Reclamation Sage for things like that.
4. Shardless Agent is considered perfectly fine for the deck. Jester and I both have her in our current lists. I'm not 100% in love with her in the deck, but she's always a fun gamble. Bloodbraid Elf is less commonly seen; she hits a better range of targets (shipping a Cloudstone Curio to the bottom off of Agent is sad times) and has some synergy with Wirewood Symbiote, which is pretty cool.
Speaking of Symbiote, card is truly the absolute nuts. It's so good in this deck, always better than you think it is.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Its pretty funny how close our lists are after stumbling on this page tonight... My list is about 95% the same as a lot of the decks here. Ive been playing it for about 4 months now after lots of testing and I have a little bit of knowledge about the deck at this point. To answer you Lox. (Ive been playing under mtgcommander.net rules not the French list btw...)
1)after testing a lot i felt that we need draw engines very much. So what about Primordial Sage or_and Soul of the Harvest? it is glimpse wich very fits our plan
Draw engines are very important in fact they are the most important thing in the deck to give it teeth. When playing the cantrips and Glimpse are invaluable. As stated above Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is a savage and one of my personal finishers. I use the cantrips in early game to try to establish a board setup that usually involves drawing lots of cards with Elvish Visionary, Wall of Blossoms or Coiling Oracle so in the mid game (Which is usually turn 3 for me.) I can bounce them several times or wait until I have a win available.
very difficult and skillentesive match against Narset and other heavy blue controls. Very difficult to play around counters, pyroclasms and wrath. May be cards like city of solitude or dosan can help
You have to out race Narset honestly... I personally run a Cyclonic Rift to try to deny mana if I am behind or Daze to counter something to give you time.
This card is not an issue at all... most of your cards are played for their etb and it really only slows down an Earthcraft start. Other than that youll be a little slower than usual but still loads faster than a deck that plays that or Kismet.
what abput cascade friends? What role do they play? Do we obviously need them?
ABSOLUTELY!!! Ive been waiting for a Judge Foil Shardless Agent to fall in my lap so I can try him out. I actually run Maelstrom Wanderer. That card is a bonafied Win Condition for me. Free spells are the name of the game. Casting 2 spells for 2 mana seems pretty solid to me. In my case with the Wanderer casting 3 spells for 3 mana and giving every creature I control Haste is really important. Usually when I have a few counters on Animar I cast him and he just steals away unwinnable games in most cases. It also synergizes well with our creature tutors. Nothing better than hitting a Worldly Tutor then getting Oblivion Sower and then exile your opponents Libraries.
I want to mention I play my deck in Multiplayer tourneys and it does really well. Able to kill all players by turn 5 80% of games. I can kill a single player on turn 3 about 60% of the time.
Great post. Only thing is: How is Cyclonic Rift mana denial? Bouncing their rocks?
Ancestral Statue is pretty commonly run. I think one of the only people who doesn't like it is Jester; he's explained it (in the last page or two) but I really can't see myself going without. Even as an Invasive Species-type effect he's nuts.
Is Scryb Ranger a budget choice? That just seems worse than Quirion Ranger, though I don't like to have to bounce my lands in any situation other than Gush and Fathom Seer. Bouncing Elves with Wirewood Symbiote is pure value, though.
I'm on the fence about trying Oblivion Sower. I can see the appeal of being able to exile their library, but if you're going infinite in any way like that then you've already got ways to end them. I also really don't like the idea that he can just brick on the cast trigger or only manage to get you a random land that taps for colorless (which is largely useless once you have 6+ counters).
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
Cyclonic Rift compares very poorly to Snap here in my opinion, as Snap can essentially cycle for free when trying to get counters on Animar by targeting your own creature and can generate mana in the same way with cradle or the land enchantments. As a bonus Snap + Eternal Witness + Gaea's Cradle/1 blue source, and Animar out, is infinite counters and potentially infinite green mana. Buys back Gilded Drake for free. If your opponent targets Ancestral Statue with removal with it's bounce trigger on the stack, you can return it to your hand to try again without losing mana that could otherwise be spent winning the game that turn. Cyclonic Rift can do some of these things and can target more and overload is sweet but the untap mechanic from that block is so strong in these decks if youre going to run one (I do) i'd go with snap.
Exactly... Pope. When racing a Narset player it becomes invaluable to slow their mana down. Its a close race most of the time and it becomes relevant to at upkeep make them cast a Grim Monolith or a Talisman or Signet a second time to essentially Time Walk them. The Statue is really just a random card to enable a loop in the late game or kill a player when I can early game. Its good but I can see where the Jester guy is coming from. I run Scryb Ranger because it has protection from blue. Some of the strongest generals in my meta are Brago, King Eternal and Derevi, Empyrial Tactician this card in my opening hand has saved me games. Its actually in and Quirion Ranger is out in my list. I dont run Gush only Fathom Seer. Gush is usually countered when I get going so Id rather have the creature instead of the spell. Wirewood Symbiote is a savage I actually love the card. I think people dont read the card much. Oblivion Sower actually lets you play all lands from a players exile zone not just lands exiled by it. Ive been in situations where I needed some mana and casted him when a player was Helm of Obedience'd and I got a free 30 lands so I could continue to go off when I ran out of gas. It also doesnt hurt getting rid of win conditions that are put on top of players libraries with tutors. He's very powerful in Multiplayer. He's one of my favorites in the deck actually for the versatility. I dont like to durdle much like the deck has the tendency to do. Im usually straight for the kill and nothing else. Id rather kill all players or put players I cant kill right away in a spot where there is little chance of recovery.
Lemon I prefer to play creatures as opposed to non creature spells. In my experience (About 200 games with Animar) There would be situations where I wish I had a removal spell and then I would just feel like I am behind anyway. If I have to cast a non creature spell it better win me the game the turn I play it. I dont use the Rift to bounce creatures... most of the time its an answer to bullets people play to slow me down or when a win condition is on the board and I cannot interact with it when I am behind. Sometimes its just relevant to Overload on tapped out opponents and kill everyone. Snap cannot do that. Its just a simple less versatile spell in most cases. I see the synergy you provided but if you have to do all that youre probably already ahead anyway. Snap has been really bad in my testing. It doesnt answer things that are a problem for me where Cyclonic Rift does.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
I know that I was offering a different perspective fsecco. I still win pretty consistently and even without Prime Time and Rofellos its still strong enough to kill multiple players so it should be enough to kill one when its still legal for both.
The real issue with discussing Wizards rules here is that even though some of the more broken enablers are playable there (Sol ring, ect), these decks tuned specifically for 1v1 have entirely different curves than multiplayer decks that can afford to be slow because the games are likely to last much longer. It's because of this that control decks (like narset, ruhan, GAA, Tasigur, ect) don't even usually run mana rocks as far as I can tell. They just have to interact with their opponent too often and too early for them to bother casting them. Being able to kill multiple opponents in a multiplayer game with a strategy that entirely relies on dumping creatures onto board actually says a lot more about the poor strength of your opponents and less about the validity of your testing. Not trying to give you grief, but theyre two very different formats and play out much differently.
In regards to snap vs. rift, saying you would prefer to run creatures over snap when I was directly comparing it to rift doesn't make much sense. Especially because contrary to your argument snap can give you a creature back to your hand to cast again from the battlefield for free while rift can't even target your own creatures. Snap impacts your ability to cast more creatures positively, and rift does so negatively while rotting in your hand against a resolved narset or when your opponent simply doesnt have nonland permanents worth bouncing, which for control decks in this format, is a lot. Snap is much less a removal spell and much more a strange clone variant that provides interaction to a deck that is severely lacking in it if problem creatures arise, while cyclonic rift seems like a removal spell that a control deck would utilize to provide utility, not a combo deck trying to win right away.
@new spoilers
I like the 7 drop, but it really isn't slithermuse. I hope they tap into the design space more because the wording is perfect for this deck, but at 7 mana there is so much competition for space. Still hoping we get a new one drop dork or one drop land enchantment.
I stop by this thread from time to time to gain perspective on cards I am thinking of for my Tiny Leaders Imperial Animar decklist. A card I play alot of but haven't seen mentioned in the recent lists is Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch. I consider them to be the same card, capable of tapping an opponent's blocker or untapping a land to continue a Glimpse of Nature chain as well as enabling potential Cloudstone Curio combos. It also plays very well with a Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl land. Why are the cards not inlcuded in many French Imperial Animar lists?
My earlier lists included them for sure, and I think you'll still see them occasionally. I think they're generally seen as lackluster due to the fact they don't actually net you any mana unless you've got one of the Land Enchantments or Gaea's Cradle out. They can tap blockers, which is cool, but not a major upside. Cloud of Faeries generally does it better (in addition to being able to cycle), making for an infinite loop with little help where they can't. I think if one felt they needed more untap effects they'd be on top of the list, but as it is I think we're more interested in card draw creatures and mana dorks.
Between the two, Pestermite is better since it's Clamp-able, by the way.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
As PopeJP mentioned, we really care about card draw creatures. Though, I'd expanded that to creatures that generate card advantage in general. When you actually look at the breakdown of creatures, 100% of them either generate card advantage, or generate tempo advantage, either directly or indirectly. Spellskite & Gilded Drake are the only two exceptions, and even then both are often utilized for card advantage & tempo purposes.
Pestermite is just simply not a compelling tempo card. If you don't have a worthwhile land target, it's worse than Ironshell Beetle (3 cards, 3-4 mana to get to 4 counters, vs 4 cards, 4-5 mana to get to 4 counters).
Also, if you can't untap a blue source with Cradle, it gets super hairy -- you're really not going to want to squander blue mana if it's at the expense of not being able to dig further.
The big question in this deck is how do I generate card advantage. Tempo & Mana advantage begets card advantage, as it maximizes ones ability to utilize more card advantage outlets faster. 4 counters is the obvious thing to optimize around, as after that point there are diminishing returns on how much mana advantage can be generated.
@PopeJP, Jester831 Thanks for the quick reply. I can definitely see the justification for playing other cards over Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch in French as opposed to Tiny Leaders. You're rushing to an Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre loop, where as I often just try to play a huge Genesis Hydra turn 3 and win through rushing my opponent.
Do you feel like scry cards like Sage of Epityr and Augury Owl generate more card advantage than a card like Merchant of Secrets? I feel like card slots that draw and discard or scry could be better utilized in most cases. Do you play them to lower the curve? Do you have a target number of cards at each CMC?
@Lemonbuster I hadn't even thought about the Snap/Eternal Witness combo. I will be looking for a way to fit that into my TL deck.
It's perfect for TL, kinda like a build-your-own-statue. I really like it because it works out of the yard so you can use snap early on whatever and when you draw witness you can get it back and start going off right away. I don't run Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying but with a smaller deck it might be worth it to run one to get cradle more often, especially because you will see witness/snap more often. Works withDen Protector too. Once you get Animar infinite/infinite green you then have a snap to clear a potential blocker. Quite the package thats really there by coincidence.
Do you feel like scry cards like Sage of Epityr and Augury Owl generate more card advantage than a card like Merchant of Secrets? I feel like card slots that draw and discard or scry could be better utilized in most cases. Do you play them to lower the curve? Do you have a target number of cards at each CMC?
It's hard to pin down an exact number of what you want at each CMC, but 3 CMC creatures are really bad when they're all you've got and your hand is significantly better if it's got a one drop in it. Sage of Epityr is a great turn one play to smooth out your pre-Animar draws, especially if you've only got two lands in hand, and also comes down right after Animar as a one-drop who can set up your next turn. The deck needs one drops, but at the same time you can only expect them to be so effective. We've largely moved away from Augury Owl and Scry in general; the real money cards are the Raven Familiar effects. Unfortunately you only see that at three mana, and there are only a limited number of two mana dudes who draw you a card in some capacity (hence Owl Familiar, though he's not to be underestimated).
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
I definitely agree that a lot of lists I see are heavy in three drops, and while most of them are good when youre casting them for only one or two colored mana, paying full price for multiple over the course of the game when Animar has been removed can be far too slow. Not to mention it's the cheaper creatures that get Animar up and running. I personally don't look for a specific number at each CMC, but instead run all the one drops I think are powerful enough that they cant be excluded, and then the same with the two drops, and then from 3 CMC and up you select cards that have synergy with the cheaper creatures in the deck (other than the obvious mulldrifters and such) because there are just too many good choices to run everything that's viable. With the one and two drops, there really are only a limited number of cards that could fill those slots and their CMC are necessary to make the deck function.
Well, I guess the big question is if Animar's color mana reduction works here. If the new symbol means something along the lines of: "spend only colorless mana to pay this cost", then I believe that Animar would work. Jury's out though, I'm not aware of any leaked rulings here
won two tournaments with imperial Animar. I would like to say a very BIG THANKS to Asimov, PopeJP, Jester831 and to all fellows here. I tested so much this deck and read all this forum about Animar. Big job (=
It depends. I get the sense <> is replacing colorless, so a land like Ancient Tomb adds <><>. They're differentiating between generic mana and colorless mana. The questions becomes, do cost-reducing effects like Animar or Training Grounds reduce by generic mana or colorless mana? That's what we'll have to wait and see on. I have the unfortunate suspicion that it'll be generic, but we can hope.
URGImperial AnimarGRU BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB WURNarset NostalgicRUW UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU UBlue BraidsU GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WUHanna, Pillowfort's NavigatorUW WBRAleshacratsBRW UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU URGYasova the ThreateningGRU BGGlissa the ArticiferGB WUSygg MerfolkUW RSquee, Value NabobR
The activated ability is super underrated here, you can obviously draw the wrong CMC and your opponent resolves stuff but it seems hard to lose after resolving him. Not like survival needed to be better but new Kozilek counters pretty much anything if you can just use survival to tutor for the right CMC.
I don't think the rules will fall in our favor though.
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i began to play this deck several weeks ago. I start to play Asimov's list with cutting qurion ranger into sybiote by his advice
now i have several new questions
1) after testing a lot i felt that we need draw engines very much. So what about Primordial Sage or_and Soul of the Harvest? it is glimpse wich very fits our plan
2) very difficult and skillentesive match against Narset and other heavy blue controls. Very difficult to play around counters, pyroclasms and wrath. May be cards like city of solitude or dosan can help
3) ARCANE LABOROTORY!!!!!! o__________________________O
4) what abput cascade friends? What role do they play? Do we obviously need them?
byes are for girls!
2. The match ups are difficult, but every deck has a weakness. Mainboarding bad cards like City of Solitude or Dosan, the Falling Leaf dilute our deck and are pretty bad in a lot of match ups. If you wanted a Dosan-like effect, Gaea's Herald performs decently (less color intensive). Daze is a powerful tool, and Cursecatcher can find a home in the deck.
3. Is Arcane Laboratory much of a real thing? I wouldn't worry too much about it. Even if they managed to have it in their opener, it's a pretty slow answer to us, especially if we're on the play. That being said, a lot of lists run Reclamation Sage for things like that.
4. Shardless Agent is considered perfectly fine for the deck. Jester and I both have her in our current lists. I'm not 100% in love with her in the deck, but she's always a fun gamble. Bloodbraid Elf is less commonly seen; she hits a better range of targets (shipping a Cloudstone Curio to the bottom off of Agent is sad times) and has some synergy with Wirewood Symbiote, which is pretty cool.
Speaking of Symbiote, card is truly the absolute nuts. It's so good in this deck, always better than you think it is.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
Draw engines are very important in fact they are the most important thing in the deck to give it teeth. When playing the cantrips and Glimpse are invaluable. As stated above Kozilek, Butcher of Truth is a savage and one of my personal finishers. I use the cantrips in early game to try to establish a board setup that usually involves drawing lots of cards with Elvish Visionary, Wall of Blossoms or Coiling Oracle so in the mid game (Which is usually turn 3 for me.) I can bounce them several times or wait until I have a win available.
You have to out race Narset honestly... I personally run a Cyclonic Rift to try to deny mana if I am behind or Daze to counter something to give you time.
This card is not an issue at all... most of your cards are played for their etb and it really only slows down an Earthcraft start. Other than that youll be a little slower than usual but still loads faster than a deck that plays that or Kismet.
ABSOLUTELY!!! Ive been waiting for a Judge Foil Shardless Agent to fall in my lap so I can try him out. I actually run Maelstrom Wanderer. That card is a bonafied Win Condition for me. Free spells are the name of the game. Casting 2 spells for 2 mana seems pretty solid to me. In my case with the Wanderer casting 3 spells for 3 mana and giving every creature I control Haste is really important. Usually when I have a few counters on Animar I cast him and he just steals away unwinnable games in most cases. It also synergizes well with our creature tutors. Nothing better than hitting a Worldly Tutor then getting Oblivion Sower and then exile your opponents Libraries.
I want to mention I play my deck in Multiplayer tourneys and it does really well. Able to kill all players by turn 5 80% of games. I can kill a single player on turn 3 about 60% of the time.
Here are some cards out of the ordinary I run that havent been included in these lists.
Glamerdye
Cyclonic Rift
Scryb Ranger
Oblivion Sower
Ancestral Statue
Maelstrom Wanderer
Ancestral Statue is pretty commonly run. I think one of the only people who doesn't like it is Jester; he's explained it (in the last page or two) but I really can't see myself going without. Even as an Invasive Species-type effect he's nuts.
Is Scryb Ranger a budget choice? That just seems worse than Quirion Ranger, though I don't like to have to bounce my lands in any situation other than Gush and Fathom Seer. Bouncing Elves with Wirewood Symbiote is pure value, though.
I'm on the fence about trying Oblivion Sower. I can see the appeal of being able to exile their library, but if you're going infinite in any way like that then you've already got ways to end them. I also really don't like the idea that he can just brick on the cast trigger or only manage to get you a random land that taps for colorless (which is largely useless once you have 6+ counters).
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
Lemon I prefer to play creatures as opposed to non creature spells. In my experience (About 200 games with Animar) There would be situations where I wish I had a removal spell and then I would just feel like I am behind anyway. If I have to cast a non creature spell it better win me the game the turn I play it. I dont use the Rift to bounce creatures... most of the time its an answer to bullets people play to slow me down or when a win condition is on the board and I cannot interact with it when I am behind. Sometimes its just relevant to Overload on tapped out opponents and kill everyone. Snap cannot do that. Its just a simple less versatile spell in most cases. I see the synergy you provided but if you have to do all that youre probably already ahead anyway. Snap has been really bad in my testing. It doesnt answer things that are a problem for me where Cyclonic Rift does.
Not too bad, guys. No Slithermuse, but still sweet.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
and this friend can be put into midrange animar. But i think not so good in imperial build
byes are for girls!
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
In regards to snap vs. rift, saying you would prefer to run creatures over snap when I was directly comparing it to rift doesn't make much sense. Especially because contrary to your argument snap can give you a creature back to your hand to cast again from the battlefield for free while rift can't even target your own creatures. Snap impacts your ability to cast more creatures positively, and rift does so negatively while rotting in your hand against a resolved narset or when your opponent simply doesnt have nonland permanents worth bouncing, which for control decks in this format, is a lot. Snap is much less a removal spell and much more a strange clone variant that provides interaction to a deck that is severely lacking in it if problem creatures arise, while cyclonic rift seems like a removal spell that a control deck would utilize to provide utility, not a combo deck trying to win right away.
@new spoilers
I like the 7 drop, but it really isn't slithermuse. I hope they tap into the design space more because the wording is perfect for this deck, but at 7 mana there is so much competition for space. Still hoping we get a new one drop dork or one drop land enchantment.
Between the two, Pestermite is better since it's Clamp-able, by the way.
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
Pestermite is just simply not a compelling tempo card. If you don't have a worthwhile land target, it's worse than Ironshell Beetle (3 cards, 3-4 mana to get to 4 counters, vs 4 cards, 4-5 mana to get to 4 counters).
Also, if you can't untap a blue source with Cradle, it gets super hairy -- you're really not going to want to squander blue mana if it's at the expense of not being able to dig further.
The big question in this deck is how do I generate card advantage. Tempo & Mana advantage begets card advantage, as it maximizes ones ability to utilize more card advantage outlets faster. 4 counters is the obvious thing to optimize around, as after that point there are diminishing returns on how much mana advantage can be generated.
Do you feel like scry cards like Sage of Epityr and Augury Owl generate more card advantage than a card like Merchant of Secrets? I feel like card slots that draw and discard or scry could be better utilized in most cases. Do you play them to lower the curve? Do you have a target number of cards at each CMC?
@Lemonbuster I hadn't even thought about the Snap/Eternal Witness combo. I will be looking for a way to fit that into my TL deck.
It's hard to pin down an exact number of what you want at each CMC, but 3 CMC creatures are really bad when they're all you've got and your hand is significantly better if it's got a one drop in it. Sage of Epityr is a great turn one play to smooth out your pre-Animar draws, especially if you've only got two lands in hand, and also comes down right after Animar as a one-drop who can set up your next turn. The deck needs one drops, but at the same time you can only expect them to be so effective. We've largely moved away from Augury Owl and Scry in general; the real money cards are the Raven Familiar effects. Unfortunately you only see that at three mana, and there are only a limited number of two mana dudes who draw you a card in some capacity (hence Owl Familiar, though he's not to be underestimated).
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Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
I'm not entirely sure if Kozilek, the Great Distortion actually works with Animar, but if it does, the draw trigger is lethal.
Here's hoping the new mana mechanics are compatible.
My list is here: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10956&d=262384&f=EDH
i decided not to change it for today tournament. I feel pretty ok with these 99
byes are for girls!
Living End Contributor and Enthusiast
Come Pucatrade with me
Rules Advisor
Modern: BRGLiving EndGRB
Legacy: UBGShardless BUGGBU
BRGProssh, Tokenmaker of KherGRB
WURNarset NostalgicRUW
UBR"I like your deck better" JelevaRBU
UBlue BraidsU
GAzusa, Lost but RampingG
WBRAleshacratsBRW
UBRGrixis Pew PewRBU
URGYasova the ThreateningGRU
BGGlissa the ArticiferGB
WUSygg MerfolkUW
RSquee, Value NabobR
I don't think the rules will fall in our favor though.