Hey all, for those who are interested I have finally gotten around to putting some more effort into the OP, including card explanations and some tips on playing the deck. By no means is the primer at all complete, but I would appreciate some feedback as to where I can be more thorough/clear, or what I can add to supplement what I have already outlined. I apologize for the lack of updates recently but I hope the primer will prove to be helpful nonetheless. As always questions/comments/concerns regarding the deck itself are always welcome and appreciated as well. Thanks guys. Keep up the good work.
Good job man. I really appreciate all the work you've put into this. I think you're a really good deck builder and so far all of your input has done me well. I have an identical list sporting Jace instead of Survival of the Fittest(had to get my money out of him) and Glen Elendra instead of Draining Whelk(meta decision). Well anyways thanks alot, looking forward to more updates.
So after reading up on some of the other competetive lists that are using green I began to wonder if this deck would benefit from including early ramp cards (ie. Rampant Growth, Nature's Lore, etc.) in lieu of some of the permission/artifact acceleration. Many other decks have been using it to great degrees of success and I don't see why this deck would be an exception. I think ramp would help this deck out quite a bit since, obviously, the deck really begins to flourish once Momir Vig is resolved, so acceleration is key. However, things like Mana Vault, and to a lesser extent, Grim Monolith, are a bit problematic at times because sure, you can drop Vig on turn 3, but you don't have anything left to protect him, and you're back to where you started the following turn, tempo wise, since Vault/Monolith won't untap to assist you in developing your board presence now that Vig is online. True ramp doesn't suffer from this problem. I'm starting to question if simply accelerating Vig out is the best course of action. Perhaps a more consistent gameplan is to develop your mana early on and play Vig only when you can do so safely (not that I play recklessly anyway). When you play Vig with mana open you minimize his one glaring fault, fragility, by being able to get use out of him immediately by playing creatures, or by leaving mana open for permission. This is the aspect that I want to investigate.
Explanation: I want to see if this deck can get by without the broken early acceleration, possibly in preparation for entry into the next MWS tourney. Brainstorm and Ponder give this deck some added consistency if drawn early. Also, they are relevant topdecks come late game.
Has anyone had any good traction with Thicket Elemental? It's admittedly 7 mana to get it in kicked, but with Momir in play, it tutors any creature directly to the battlefield. Not as efficient as a Tooth and Nail, but bounce-able and repeatable. Thoughts?
Thicket Elemental is an interesting suggestion. Upon first glance it looks a little pricey to me but it certainly has an appeal with Momir Vig online. My only concern is the fact that usually Momir Vig wants to chain the creature tutoring, and since the elemental puts the creature directly into play...the buck stops there (provided you don't have a bounce effect online or a creature in hand to keep it going). 4GGG for a 4/4 and a Tidespout Tyrant/Terastodon does seem pretty fair though. I'm curious to see what other people think about this. Thoughts everybody?
If you don't have Momir in play, would you ever want Thicket Elemental? Doubtful.
Does a 4/4 body matter overmuch? Not really. Is there anything you care about that your willing to cheat into play for 7 mana? Not really. It's not worth a deckslot if the best case scenario is that your getting 1 of your 8 casting cost spells into play for 7 mana and a random 4/4. I mean, it seems like a decent enough way to try and beat countermagic, but its slow and unnecessary.
Yeah, like I said, it only really becomes relevant once Momir Vig is resolved...at which point you probably have better uses for 7 mana anyway. The countermagic point is largely irrelevant because they would just counter the Thicket Elemental anyway, so that's not really an argument to be used in his favor.
Yeah that makes sense. The Thicket is pretty useless without Momir, and with Momir in play, there are better ways to spend 7 mana. Okay, two more suggestions for consideration:
Dense Foliage: The effect protects all creatures, but the benefits seem to outweigh the costs for Momir. It protects your creatures, Momir especially, from untimely destroy/exile/tuck/etc spells, and hurts any opponent who had any beneficial spells to cast on their own creatures. And itt does nothing to stop all of Momir's ETB creature-based removal (Man-o'-War, etc). Looking over Miscalcul8edRisk's current posted list, I think the only spell it could potentially backfire on would be if you wanted to Capsize one of your own guys. It does prevent Capsize from being an emergency way of saving Momir from some sort of ability based removal or a Wrath. But it doesn't hamper a combo-win, since if you've gone infinite, you can just use Capsize to bounce Dense Foliage.
All in all, seems like a good way to protect the team & Momir, while disrupting the table a bit. Thoughts?
Second cards for thoughts: Lifeline. This card got hit hard in the January rules update (though it doesn't look like it's changed on Gatherer), but I still like it. I had it in as wrath protection (since before, if all creatures died at once, they'd all come back). But even though now it only saves creatures dying individually, I still think the synergy is high with Momir. With all the ETB effects, your creatures dying becomes a mana-less way to get free recursions of the various effects. Again, your opponents get the same benefit, but you'll be bouncing threatening creatures more than killing them, and have more creatures to abuse it with.
So after reading up on some of the other competetive lists that are using green I began to wonder if this deck would benefit from including early ramp cards (ie. Rampant Growth, Nature's Lore, etc.) .
Thats my list, I'm still working on getting some pieces (I don't have a drake, tyrant, e witness, and aluren)
But the ramp serves me well. I use fat creatures to kill instead of combo (Freshmaker, Sky swallower, Inkwin) once I get the combo cards I will probably drop the fat creatures, bu the ramp is going to stay, being able to chain Mystic Snake and draining whelk together with Equilibrium or Cloud stone to counter 2 spells per turn is sick. Ramp is like time walk in this deck, and ramp that gets 2 is sooooo good because you can play momir turn 5 with negate or muddle open.
Well, I've been looking into making a Momir Vig deck lately myself. I'd definitely go a more casual multiplayer build. I like bounce a lot and it's only better with EtB triggers. In another deck of mine I found it was a lot of fun (albeit mostly just for myself) running bounce alongside Teferi's Puzzle Box. I think If I were to build the deck I'd playtest that a bit, with Scroll Rack and Mind's Eye as well. I'd probably thin the creatures out a bit to do it, so I might also run some shuffle effects with Magus of the Future and Future Sight, and maybe Explorer's Scope or Journeyer's Kiteto keep the lands thinning out as well.
Thinking about putting this decklist together to give it a try. It looks really fun! The people I play with aren't strict about going above 100, so I don't need to cut from such a tight decklist. So i'm wondering about other cards that would be fun to include in a more casual multiplayer setting. Do you think Scroll Rack would provide a useful utility, or is it simply unnecessary with all the other fun tricks that this deck can pull of?
What is your current list? would you mind throwing it up, changed a lot since the front of the thread, and i'm loosing track following through the incremental changes. Also, how have the cutpurse, brainstorm and ponder worked out?
What is your current list? would you mind throwing it up, changed a lot since the front of the thread, and i'm loosing track following through the incremental changes. Also, how have the cutpurse, brainstorm and ponder worked out?
Yeah I agree, I follow this thread closely and trust miscalculated's advise - we should post a "mean" decklist also, one that isn't affected by miscalculated's local banlist.
Hey guys, sorry about my recent inactivity. I'm getting married in three weeks and been trying to square away all of the planning stuff, as such, MtG has been on the back burner. Anyway, I will post an updated list in the OP when I have a bit more free time (not much has really changed) though I've recently convinced the local group to follow the universally accepted banlist. So Strip Mine and Wasteland will be coming in with the next updates.
I would LOVE to have room for Sylvan Library...but as most of you probably understand, the decklist is really tight. I haven't tested OMD in this deck but I know from experience that it can be very hit or miss, but is obviously better with more library manipulation effects (ie. Top, Sylvan, Jace 2.0).
Have you thought of Avenger of Zendikar? I'm remaking my Momir deck because I'm getting bored of Sharuum. I'm also putting Thornling in my Momir Vig, I've found it to be pretty devastating early game to get it out. Also I'm a combo fan so I like to have combo's *reason I play Sharuum* and because of that I'm playing Brine Elemental and Vesuvan Shapeshifter because it shuts everyone down fast.
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Standard: Esper Spirits-WUB
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Hello all. The decklist in the OP is updated per my current decklist. Consult this list only (ignore my other lists scattered throughout the thread as they are outdated).
My major changes basically saw the removal of Rishadan Cutpurse, Memory Lapse, Brainstorm, and Ponder. None of which were working up to my expectations. Solemn Simulacrum is back making his second tour of duty in the deck and I am testing out the so far highly productive Jace the Mind Sculptor. Two more lands were added to the land section (now up to 41 lands) along with the removal of the Manlands, Vivids, and Reliquary Tower in favor of Wasteland, Strip Mine and additional basics.
See despite the other "off color" fetches being completely legal, I just can't bring myself to run something that represents another color combination besides UG. Personal preference I guess, though I do not doubt their effectiveness.
Likewise. Realistically Momir Vig has a pretty good matchup against anything that requires specific cards to win, like other combo decks for example. Also, other decks that are relatively creature heavy like you mentioned are not too much trouble.
I don't see how those two cards have a place in the deck.
tawno's coffin works well with comes into play effect creatures, but so does 80% of our deck - and since bounce is way more versatile, I wouldn't cut any of those combo pieces - with aluren, our creatures are extremely cheap anyway.
rings of brighthearth only work with activated abilities, not triggered (which are the main ability our cards have) Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of that would be cool would be.. actually, I can't think of anything cool to do with it.
Rings makes Tawnos better. And I'm sorry, but you stated exactly why Tawnos was good for this deck in bold text above.
It deals with pesky tokens, nasty scary fat dudes, and allows you to further abuse your CITP abilities in a pinch. It is certainly better than some of the choices in the deck now.
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UGExperiment KrajUG
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Good job man. I really appreciate all the work you've put into this. I think you're a really good deck builder and so far all of your input has done me well. I have an identical list sporting Jace instead of Survival of the Fittest(had to get my money out of him) and Glen Elendra instead of Draining Whelk(meta decision). Well anyways thanks alot, looking forward to more updates.
Thanks Darth Monkey
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Additionally, some changes I recently made:
- Riftsweeper
+ Yavimaya Dryad (optional ramp)
- Draining Whelk
+ Rishadan Cutpurse (want to test him out as suggested by Jokulhaups)
- Sol Ring
- Mana Crypt
+ Brainstorm
+ Ponder
Explanation: I want to see if this deck can get by without the broken early acceleration, possibly in preparation for entry into the next MWS tourney. Brainstorm and Ponder give this deck some added consistency if drawn early. Also, they are relevant topdecks come late game.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
If you don't have Momir in play, would you ever want Thicket Elemental? Doubtful.
Does a 4/4 body matter overmuch? Not really. Is there anything you care about that your willing to cheat into play for 7 mana? Not really. It's not worth a deckslot if the best case scenario is that your getting 1 of your 8 casting cost spells into play for 7 mana and a random 4/4. I mean, it seems like a decent enough way to try and beat countermagic, but its slow and unnecessary.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Dense Foliage: The effect protects all creatures, but the benefits seem to outweigh the costs for Momir. It protects your creatures, Momir especially, from untimely destroy/exile/tuck/etc spells, and hurts any opponent who had any beneficial spells to cast on their own creatures. And itt does nothing to stop all of Momir's ETB creature-based removal (Man-o'-War, etc). Looking over Miscalcul8edRisk's current posted list, I think the only spell it could potentially backfire on would be if you wanted to Capsize one of your own guys. It does prevent Capsize from being an emergency way of saving Momir from some sort of ability based removal or a Wrath. But it doesn't hamper a combo-win, since if you've gone infinite, you can just use Capsize to bounce Dense Foliage.
All in all, seems like a good way to protect the team & Momir, while disrupting the table a bit. Thoughts?
Second cards for thoughts: Lifeline. This card got hit hard in the January rules update (though it doesn't look like it's changed on Gatherer), but I still like it. I had it in as wrath protection (since before, if all creatures died at once, they'd all come back). But even though now it only saves creatures dying individually, I still think the synergy is high with Momir. With all the ETB effects, your creatures dying becomes a mana-less way to get free recursions of the various effects. Again, your opponents get the same benefit, but you'll be bouncing threatening creatures more than killing them, and have more creatures to abuse it with.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=227304
Thats my list, I'm still working on getting some pieces (I don't have a drake, tyrant, e witness, and aluren)
But the ramp serves me well. I use fat creatures to kill instead of combo (Freshmaker, Sky swallower, Inkwin) once I get the combo cards I will probably drop the fat creatures, bu the ramp is going to stay, being able to chain Mystic Snake and draining whelk together with Equilibrium or Cloud stone to counter 2 spells per turn is sick. Ramp is like time walk in this deck, and ramp that gets 2 is sooooo good because you can play momir turn 5 with negate or muddle open.
Thanks Darth Monkey
Glissa, the Traitor, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, The Mimeoplasm
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Yeah I agree, I follow this thread closely and trust miscalculated's advise - we should post a "mean" decklist also, one that isn't affected by miscalculated's local banlist.
I would LOVE to have room for Sylvan Library...but as most of you probably understand, the decklist is really tight. I haven't tested OMD in this deck but I know from experience that it can be very hit or miss, but is obviously better with more library manipulation effects (ie. Top, Sylvan, Jace 2.0).
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
My major changes basically saw the removal of Rishadan Cutpurse, Memory Lapse, Brainstorm, and Ponder. None of which were working up to my expectations. Solemn Simulacrum is back making his second tour of duty in the deck and I am testing out the so far highly productive Jace the Mind Sculptor. Two more lands were added to the land section (now up to 41 lands) along with the removal of the Manlands, Vivids, and Reliquary Tower in favor of Wasteland, Strip Mine and additional basics.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
UGExperiment KrajUG
Rings makes Tawnos better. And I'm sorry, but you stated exactly why Tawnos was good for this deck in bold text above.
It deals with pesky tokens, nasty scary fat dudes, and allows you to further abuse your CITP abilities in a pinch. It is certainly better than some of the choices in the deck now.
UGExperiment KrajUG