Wort, the Raidmother is absolutely one of the most powerful generals, but hasn’t got that much love yet. If you want a competitive deck that is very challenging to play with, Wort might be for you. If you like original and different decks, Wort is also a great choice. I would like to warn you though, that you will need to play a little with the deck before you grasp all the synergies and figure out the right choices in the different situations. It took me a long time to pass the stadium where I had to think for several minutes before discovering how to combo off.
Currently the most powerful decks in the format are mono-blue control and combo decks like Vendilion Clique, Azami and Teferi. When playing green-red many of the best answers to decks relying on counterspells are avaiable to you.
This deck is most powerful in 1v1, but also fare great in multiplayer, due to the explosiveness of the deck. The main difference is that in multiplayer there are more people that can disrupt you when you're trying to go off. This list is built with the banning list provided on this site, but only small changes will make it compatible with the "Official" rules provided by the Rules Commitee.
Exposive Wort aims to win the game by abusing the mainly green cards that gets better the more tokens you have in play. Examples of this are Earthcraft, Collective Unconcious and Ashnod's Altar, and many more. The deck can create enormous amounts of tokens in short time, thanks to Wort conspiring many of your token-makers. Luckily, green and red are two of the three colours that can produce lots of tokens. This deck plays a combo game not all too different from elf-ball decks, putting creatures into play that gives us more mana and more cards, that gives us more creatures etc. for the Banefire kill. Tutors like Chord of Calling, Tooth and Nail and Natural Order can fetch packages that includes a combination of any of the following, depending on the situation, sorted after most relevant:
Alternatively Wort can abuse powerful spells such as Primal Command and similar to generate sick amounts of card advantage. Many of the deck's sorceries wins the game on the spot when conspired. These includes Tooth and Nail, Natural OrderPlow Under and Stunted Growth.
The deck runs a fair amount of disruption, and an opponent stumbling in the opening stages of a game will be punished hard by this deck. The deck is able to pull off Plow Under on turn 3, and also plays cards like Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Reap and Sow and Acidic Slime.
Cards that didn't make it: Sprout Swarm and Mana Echoes:
A cute combo, but the cards had to be cut for making room for better alternatives. They simply don't do enough on their own.
All semi-useful non-basic lands:
We have a couple of effects that counts the number of forests, and they are therefore preferred over most of the non-basics that simply don't do enough. The deck rarely has colour screw either, so it's simply not necessary.
Coming soon
Vendilion Clique:
This is a matchup that really depends on your hand. If your hand consists of either Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Gamle or Vexing Shusher you will always win, barring Force of Will for the tutor, control magic effects or similar, and even then you're in good shape. I would not try to play around the counters, because that is basically everything they have, and they will not open themselves up unless they're stupid. Just play spells that they have to answer when you can, and hope for them to run out. Clique's greatest strength is that it often has more counters than the opponent runs threats, but Wort has got enough must-answer cards that it can battle it's way through the counterspells on a good day. The Clique deck will have a small advantage in this matchup, but Wort is probably the deck with the best matchup of all the other competitive generals. A 45-55 matchup in my opinion, which says a lot against this deck. Test it out if you don't trust me (this good a matchup really depend on the player though, as a lot of skill and experience are involved).
Azami, Lady of the Scrolls:
As with Vendilion Clique we have a few cards that just win us the game. The main difference here is that Azami don't run as much counters as Clique and so it is easier to fight through them (not much of a problem usually). They have the chance to combo off, but we are faster than them. All in all a good matchup, and better than most other decks.
Gaddock Teeg This has to be the toughest matchup for the deck. The general turns off most of your cards, and your best shot is tutoring for Siege-Gang Commander and hope for the best. It can also work with a fast start that allows you to go land destruction on t2, and just follow up with more <4 spells that disrupt them so that they can't do more than you. We have some cards like Avenger of Zendikar that also can put pressure on them. Don't expect to win this one though, that would be a bonus.
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero A deck I've seen a bit lately. It is probably the best beatdown deck in the format, and should not be underestimated. They also play the two best colours in Magic However, we have a faster clock than them, and they run little to no disruption, so we should win this every time. Matchup should be like 80-20 in our favour.
If you'd like to adapt this list for a multiplayer setting I would cut all (or nearly all) of the land destruction spells and put in more combo fodder and mana ramp. Cards like Fecundity, Restock, token producers etc. If allowed Sol Ring and Mana Crypt is auto includes, while cards like Fastbond and Biorythm would have to go out.
Beware of massive hate for bringing this to all but the most cutthroat environments if it's finetuned.
Why is this in developing? With your results in the tournament, if this deck isn't proven/competitive, nothing is.
Anyhow, I really like this deck.
I don't really have that much to add, except that Dosan the Falling Leaf has never, ever worked for me, not even in a Captain Sisay deck. I find that he's not sufficiently powerful in the matchups he's good in to make up for all the other matchups he does nothing in (as opposed to Vexing Shusher, which actually is sufficiently powerful, and makes Dosan quite redundant as well).
I'm also a little iffy on: Mana Vault/Grim Monolith (if Wort dies or is countered the first time you play her, these wind up being quite bad), Fecundity (it's always been win-more for me--if you have tokens and a sacrifice outlet you should be about to win anyways), Restock (win-more, costs too much), and Desert Twister (do you really want removal this expensive?)
Cards I think you should consider include: Recollect (I prefer it to Restock or Revive), Creeping Mold (seems like a must-have here), Nature's Lore/Three Visits/Search for Tomorrow (I like these better than the 1-shot mana artifacts), Sarkhan Vol (all of his abilities are very solid here, decent alternate win), and Unwilling Recruit (triple red is annoying, but it functions very well as both finisher and removal)
I agree to some of your suggestions, let me comment them all:
Cuts: Dosan the Falling Leaf: I agree, I have tested him a lot and have never been impressed. Mana Vault and Grim Monolith: Here I have to disagree. Accelrating out a Wort turn 3 is so important against combo decks and the occasional beatdown deck (although I'm not too scared of either of these). Another use is to accelrate a t2-3 LD or disruption spell, also important. Restock: It's a card that should not be underestimated. It has won me a great deal of attrition wars, and there are many, many cards I would cut before it. The possibility of recurring two LD spells or other good cards are just too good to pass up, not to mention it conspired. Might consider to cut one of them though. Desert Twister: Do I want removal this expensive? Yeah, I do. Deals with everything, and everything below 7 cost means it can be played the round after Wort.
Adds: Recollect: Cut this one recently for Revive, as I rarely want to recur anything non-green. Might be wrong on that one though, mostly because of the altars that I might want to recur now and then. Creeping Mold: A multi-tool that should be in there. The problem is that the list is very tight, but will try my best. Also, don't help too much in our worst matchups.
Land-fetch: Some of these might be better than some of the others I play, but I disagree that they are better than the mana-stones (remember that they are not 100% one-shot either). Tempo is the key. Any suggestions to any of the other land-fetchers that should be cut for any of these? Sarkhan Vol: I'm uncertain if he deserves a spot, he's definatly good but don't help us towards our over-all goal. Comboes well with both Doubling Season and sac outlets though, might try to test it if I feel the deck is able to win through combat, which so far have been my plan C after combo and LD. Unwilling Recruit: I'd rather run Firecat Blitz, a card I'm considering, or another x-burn.
Lands: I don't know if I need any more fetches, the land count is pretty low as it is, but they might go in as land number 37 and 38 or something. If someone disagrees on this, please correct me. Boseju should probably be added to help against mono-blue, as many cards can tutor for it as well. I don't think Winding Canyons or Yavimaya Hollow are good enough to justify lowering the count of forests, as cards like Rofellos and other cards that counts forests gets worse. Kher Keep is a card I'm undecided on, can more people voice their opinion on this card?
Library of Alexandria isn't on 1v1 ban list (at least for now). This deck is intended for 1v1, as you can tell by the lack of Sol Ring.
I still think that Restock is totally win-more. Conspiring this is unnecessary, as you should never need to Regrowth 4 cards at once. 1-2 is plenty, and you can achieve that for significantly cheaper with other spells. I don't know what kind of "attrition wars" you're referring to--to me, that usually means mana denial decks like Braids, and Restock is not a card you want if you're having mana problems.
I find Sarkhan Vol to be pretty solid because of how many token producers you play. I've definitely been in situations in testing where I had 3 or so token producers for masses of tokens, but no action beyond that. There's just not that much draw in G/R. Sarkhan makes those tokens very lethal, and is quite versatile beyond that function too.
I'm still not sold on Mana Vault/Grim Monolith. They do help you goldfish faster, but you still can't realistically go off until at least turn 4--though you can play Wort on turn 3, you really can't protect her at all. Any kind of removal or counterspell, and you're suddenly in a very deep hole. You have to basically skip a turn to untap the artifact, and by then you're behind. I don't think most competent 1v1 decks are going to let you goldfish through turn 4, so the artifacts are frequently liabilities. They're only really good against bad decks
A couple more suggestions:
Think about Memory Jar instead of or in addition to Wheel of Fortune. It's usually a much better card, especially considering that Wheel of Fortune can't profitably be conspired. You can use the extra draw anyway.
I kind of want to go heavier on land destruction with this deck. Attacking your opponent's manabase is sometimes just as good as accelerating your own, and this deck is at its best when it can rip out a quick Plow Under or something. It might be valuable to pack in some cheap 3cc LD spells (Ice Storm, Winter's Grasp, Thermokarst, Stone Rain, etc.). You may be able to make the deck a little more consistent by improving the disruption and focusing a little less on the "combo."
As I said in the other Wort thread we had going, what I think is original about this idea is the focus on land destruction and disruption. I agree with Khymera that you should play more LD, but I disagree that you should go with 3 cmc spells. I think you want to be playing a fair bit of 2 cmc acceleration so turns 2-3 you can accelerate into a 4 cmc LD spell.
I would add Pillage and Aftershock to the list of playable cards for this deck.
Edit: Also, Reiterate is really good in Wort decks. Reiterate + Early Harvest/Rude Awakening = fun times and then you can pretty much play any instant or sorcery an infinite amount of times or at least as many as needed.
I agree that Fallow Earth is way better and I would probably try to find a spot for it, but after Pillage, imo. Personally, I would drop Doubling season, because it's the very definition of win-more, in my mind. I'd put Memory Jar in its place and I wouldn't even run Vol. I think, for this deck, Garruk is actually better; he untaps lands, produces dudes, and goes for a huge overrun when you've got enough guys rather than +1/+1.
I agree that Fallow Earth is way better and I would probably try to find a spot for it, but after Pillage, imo. Personally, I would drop Doubling season, because it's the very definition of win-more, in my mind. I'd put Memory Jar in its place and I wouldn't even run Vol. I think, for this deck, Garruk is actually better; he untaps lands, produces dudes, and goes for a huge overrun when you've got enough guys rather than +1/+1.
Yup, have thought about Doubling Season as well. I'm a little sceptical on the double red on pillage though.
Worse case, you pitch a bunch of stuff you don't want, and get a bunch of stuff you do.
Best case, you conspire it, pitch X cards, return X cards, second resolves and returns all the cards you pitched (the copy already has its costs paid, so you don't have to pitch again for it).
Effectively a Regrowth on crack when conspired.
Just watch out for Counterspells ><, which at least when conspired is the same as casting Nostalgic Dreams on its own.
Worse case, you pitch a bunch of stuff you don't want, and get a bunch of stuff you do.
Best case, you conspire it, pitch X cards, return X cards, second resolves and returns all the cards you pitched (the copy already has its costs paid, so you don't have to pitch again for it).
Effectively a Regrowth on crack when conspired.
Just watch out for Counterspells ><, which at least when conspired is the same as casting Nostalgic Dreams on its own.
I have to agree that Nostalgic Dreams is a good card, and I would definatly run it if mono-blue wasn't one of the most challenging matchups already. Threat density, threat density and threat density is the key in the matchup. Did I mention that threat density is important?:tongue:
If you guys think that it still is powerful enough I might try it out though.
Mana Echoes - another good token abuser. Casting wort with this in play generates 9 mana after she comes into play. Can make any token producer create lethal banefire mana. Can be hard to utilize the colorless mana. Forms a two card combo for infinite colorless mana with Pentavus (creature, so easy to tutor for).
Scapehift - with 7 lands in play is either a 18 damage burn spell or a one sided wrath of god. Fulfills the threat density required versus blue decks even at 4 lands because it can fetch Boseju. Note you dont have to sacrfice any lands if it is countered.
How much of a role does wort play in competitive matches? ie does she actually conspire many spells or does she just trade 1for1 with a removal/counter most of the time? When she does go active how decisive is she? Has anyone considered Radha Hier to Keld instead?
Mana Echoes - another good token abuser. Casting wort with this in play generates 9 mana after she comes into play. Can make any token producer create lethal banefire mana. Can be hard to utilize the colorless mana. Forms a two card combo for infinite colorless mana with Pentavus (creature, so easy to tutor for).
Scapehift - with 7 lands in play is either a 18 damage burn spell or a one sided wrath of god. Fulfills the threat density required versus blue decks even at 4 lands because it can fetch Boseju. Note you dont have to sacrfice any lands if it is countered.
How much of a role does wort play in competitive matches? ie does she actually conspire many spells or does she just trade 1for1 with a removal/counter most of the time? When she does go active how decisive is she? Has anyone considered Radha Hier to Keld instead?
Thanks for the suggestions.
First of all, Mana Echoes only produce 4 mana (I think) from just Wort, since it doesn't count the creature itself. It got cut together with sprout swarm that also creates inf colourless mana, for not doing enough.
When you suggest that Scapeshift can shoot for lots of damage, i guess you refer to fetching Valakut, the molten pinnacle plus mountains. There is one problem though, and that is that this deck doesn't run enough mountains for this to be effective. Not convinced on this one.
About Wort. The difference Wort does is that it allows you to do the combo win. This is because that if you conspire a token producing spell so that it produces more tokens than mana required to play it you can end up netting mana through the altars or earthcraft. Secondly, if Wort survives to your next untap you can gain so much card advantage that the game ends just there. An example of this is one of the more "harmless" spells in the deck, Harmonize. When conspired it draws you 6 cards, which in this deck should be more than enough to finish the game. If you take more powerful ones like Tooth and Nail, you just win. You can play this deck with Radha instead, but I would not recommend it.
mana echoes actually gives you 9 colorless mana when wort enters the battlefield. It triggers for each creature, and since 3 goblins come in they all count eachother, so each gives 3.
mana echoes actually gives you 9 colorless mana when wort enters the battlefield. It triggers for each creature, and since 3 goblins come in they all count eachother, so each gives 3.
Actually, Wort enters play before the tokens do, but the tokens enter simultaneously. I'm pretty sure you actually get 4 mana, as each token triggers Mana Echoes and sees 2 other goblins. Possibly you can stack the triggers so the tokens enter before the first Mana Echoes trigger resolves, in which case you'd get 6 mana. Regardless, I don't think Mana Echoes quite makes the cut.
I agree that there aren't nearly enough Mountains to play Scapeshift/Valakut, and that Wort is much better than Radha, at least for this style of deck. Wort has been integral to almost all of my wins in testing. Usually you win the turn after resolving Wort, if she sticks. Sometimes you can win the same turn you resolve her.
Making Wort stick is probably the biggest problem for this deck, as I see it, so I want to continue discussion on Mana Vault and Grim Monolith, which are good if Wort sticks and kind of crappy if she doesn't. I've been testing Nature's Lore and Three Visits in these slots, and find them to be much better against competent opponents who actually pack removal. I'm going to keep pushing dropping the artifacts until you at least test other accelerators...I know you can do better.
Nostalgic Dreams is better than Restock. Despite the discard, the much cheaper mana cost gives you a substantially better chance of casting what you get the same turn you recur it, which is a little like a Time Walk in this deck. There will almost always be some cards you don't mind discarding, especially if you're going off, so the drawback really doesn't matter much.
Actually, Wort enters play before the tokens do, but the tokens enter simultaneously. I'm pretty sure you actually get 4 mana, as each token triggers Mana Echoes and sees 2 other goblins. Possibly you can stack the triggers so the tokens enter before the first Mana Echoes trigger resolves, in which case you'd get 6 mana. Regardless, I don't think Mana Echoes quite makes the cut.
I agree that there aren't nearly enough Mountains to play Scapeshift/Valakut, and that Wort is much better than Radha, at least for this style of deck. Wort has been integral to almost all of my wins in testing. Usually you win the turn after resolving Wort, if she sticks. Sometimes you can win the same turn you resolve her.
Making Wort stick is probably the biggest problem for this deck, as I see it, so I want to continue discussion on Mana Vault and Grim Monolith, which are good if Wort sticks and kind of crappy if she doesn't. I've been testing Nature's Lore and Three Visits in these slots, and find them to be much better against competent opponents who actually pack removal. I'm going to keep pushing dropping the artifacts until you at least test other accelerators...I know you can do better.
Nostalgic Dreams is better than Restock. Despite the discard, the much cheaper mana cost gives you a substantially better chance of casting what you get the same turn you recur it, which is a little like a Time Walk in this deck. There will almost always be some cards you don't mind discarding, especially if you're going off, so the drawback really doesn't matter much.
Ok, ok, I will try the changes you suggested:p
Decklist edited, still not convinced on the artifacts though.
Edit: Oh, and also, conspiring LD ftw is powerful, and wins you games.
Cast Wort, the Raidmother.
Wort, the Raidmother resolves, triggering both Mana Echoes and her "create two red and green goblin warrior tokens" trigger.
Put Mana Echoes trigger on the stack, then the token creation.
Token creation trigger resolves, triggering Mana Echoes twice.
First of three Mana Echoes triggers resolves, sees 3 goblins in play, and gives you 3 mana (goblins count themselves, you can go look up the ruling on this).
Second of three Mana Echoes triggers resolves, sees 3 goblins in play, and gives you 3 mana.
Third of three Mana Echoes triggers resolves, sees 3 goblins in play, and gives you 3 mana.
Currently the most powerful decks in the format are mono-blue control and combo decks like Vendilion Clique, Azami and Teferi. When playing green-red many of the best answers to decks relying on counterspells are avaiable to you.
This deck is most powerful in 1v1, but also fare great in multiplayer, due to the explosiveness of the deck. The main difference is that in multiplayer there are more people that can disrupt you when you're trying to go off. This list is built with the banning list provided on this site, but only small changes will make it compatible with the "Official" rules provided by the Rules Commitee.
Exposive Wort aims to win the game by abusing the mainly green cards that gets better the more tokens you have in play. Examples of this are Earthcraft, Collective Unconcious and Ashnod's Altar, and many more. The deck can create enormous amounts of tokens in short time, thanks to Wort conspiring many of your token-makers. Luckily, green and red are two of the three colours that can produce lots of tokens. This deck plays a combo game not all too different from elf-ball decks, putting creatures into play that gives us more mana and more cards, that gives us more creatures etc. for the Banefire kill. Tutors like Chord of Calling, Tooth and Nail and Natural Order can fetch packages that includes a combination of any of the following, depending on the situation, sorted after most relevant:
The deck runs a fair amount of disruption, and an opponent stumbling in the opening stages of a game will be punished hard by this deck. The deck is able to pull off Plow Under on turn 3, and also plays cards like Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Reap and Sow and Acidic Slime.
1 Wort, the Raidmother
Lands (37):
19 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Deserted Temple
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswepth Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Strip Mine
1 Boseju, Who Shelters All
Card draw and filtering (5):
1 Skullclamp
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
1 Harmonize
1 Memory Jar
Tutors (10):
1 Sylvan Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Crop Rotation
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Natural Order
1 Reap and Sow
1 Chord of Calling
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Fastbond
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Arbor Elf
1 Channel
1 Nature's Lore
1 Sakura Tribe-Elder
1 Three Visits
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Rude Awakening
Token Producers (8):
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Beacon of Creation
1 Spontaneous Generation
1 Saproling Symbiosis
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 One-Dozen Eyes
1 Avenger of Zendikar
Token Abusers (7):
1 Earthcraft
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Slate of Ancestry
1 Collective Unconcious
1 Regal Force
1 Biorythm
1 Regrowth
1 Recollect
1 Eternal Witness
Disruption (9):
1 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1 Plow Under
1 Stunted Growth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Creeping Mold
1 Fallow Earth
1 Ice Storm
1 Thermokarst
1 Winter's Grasp
Other (4):
1 Primal Command
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Banefire
Cards that didn't make it:
Sprout Swarm and Mana Echoes:
A cute combo, but the cards had to be cut for making room for better alternatives. They simply don't do enough on their own.
All semi-useful non-basic lands:
We have a couple of effects that counts the number of forests, and they are therefore preferred over most of the non-basics that simply don't do enough. The deck rarely has colour screw either, so it's simply not necessary.
Coming soon
Vendilion Clique:
This is a matchup that really depends on your hand. If your hand consists of either Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Gamle or Vexing Shusher you will always win, barring Force of Will for the tutor, control magic effects or similar, and even then you're in good shape. I would not try to play around the counters, because that is basically everything they have, and they will not open themselves up unless they're stupid. Just play spells that they have to answer when you can, and hope for them to run out. Clique's greatest strength is that it often has more counters than the opponent runs threats, but Wort has got enough must-answer cards that it can battle it's way through the counterspells on a good day. The Clique deck will have a small advantage in this matchup, but Wort is probably the deck with the best matchup of all the other competitive generals. A 45-55 matchup in my opinion, which says a lot against this deck. Test it out if you don't trust me (this good a matchup really depend on the player though, as a lot of skill and experience are involved).
Azami, Lady of the Scrolls:
As with Vendilion Clique we have a few cards that just win us the game. The main difference here is that Azami don't run as much counters as Clique and so it is easier to fight through them (not much of a problem usually). They have the chance to combo off, but we are faster than them. All in all a good matchup, and better than most other decks.
Gaddock Teeg
This has to be the toughest matchup for the deck. The general turns off most of your cards, and your best shot is tutoring for Siege-Gang Commander and hope for the best. It can also work with a fast start that allows you to go land destruction on t2, and just follow up with more <4 spells that disrupt them so that they can't do more than you. We have some cards like Avenger of Zendikar that also can put pressure on them. Don't expect to win this one though, that would be a bonus.
Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
A deck I've seen a bit lately. It is probably the best beatdown deck in the format, and should not be underestimated. They also play the two best colours in Magic However, we have a faster clock than them, and they run little to no disruption, so we should win this every time. Matchup should be like 80-20 in our favour.
More to come...
15th march 2010
+1 Creeping Mold
+1 Kher Keep
+1 Boseju, Who Shelters All
-1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
-2 Forest
16th march 2010
+1 Recollect
-1 Revive
19th march 2010
+1 Nostalgic Dreams
+1 Nature's Lore
+1 Three Visits
+1 Fallow Earth
-1 Doubling Season
-1 Restock
-1 Grim Monolith
-1 Mana Vault
2nd april 2010
+1 Fastbond
+1 Memory Jar
+1 Bosium Strip
+1 Llanowar Elves
+1 Birds of Paradise
+1 Fyndhorn Elves
+1 Ice Storm
+1 Thermokarst
+1 Winter's Grasp
+1 Biorythm
+1 Dryad Arbor
+1 Strip Mine
-1 Kher Keep
-1 Wheel of Fortune
-1 Recross the Paths
-1 Empty the Warrens
-1 Fecundity
-1 Nostalgic Dreams
-1 Basalt Monolith
-1 Early Harvest
-1 Scatter the Seeds
-1 Desert Twister
-1 Cobra Trap
-1 Squirrel Nest
10th April
+1 Arbor Elf
-1 Wood Elves
11th April
-1 Dryad Arbor
-1 Forest
-1 Bosium Strip
+1 Misty Rainforest
+1 Verdant Catacombs
+1 Channel
If you'd like to adapt this list for a multiplayer setting I would cut all (or nearly all) of the land destruction spells and put in more combo fodder and mana ramp. Cards like Fecundity, Restock, token producers etc. If allowed Sol Ring and Mana Crypt is auto includes, while cards like Fastbond and Biorythm would have to go out.
Beware of massive hate for bringing this to all but the most cutthroat environments if it's finetuned.
Anyhow, I really like this deck.
I don't really have that much to add, except that Dosan the Falling Leaf has never, ever worked for me, not even in a Captain Sisay deck. I find that he's not sufficiently powerful in the matchups he's good in to make up for all the other matchups he does nothing in (as opposed to Vexing Shusher, which actually is sufficiently powerful, and makes Dosan quite redundant as well).
I'm also a little iffy on:
Mana Vault/Grim Monolith (if Wort dies or is countered the first time you play her, these wind up being quite bad),
Fecundity (it's always been win-more for me--if you have tokens and a sacrifice outlet you should be about to win anyways),
Restock (win-more, costs too much), and
Desert Twister (do you really want removal this expensive?)
Cards I think you should consider include:
Recollect (I prefer it to Restock or Revive),
Creeping Mold (seems like a must-have here),
Nature's Lore/Three Visits/Search for Tomorrow (I like these better than the 1-shot mana artifacts),
Sarkhan Vol (all of his abilities are very solid here, decent alternate win), and
Unwilling Recruit (triple red is annoying, but it functions very well as both finisher and removal)
Also, you're missing the Zendikar fetchlands. At least the green ones should probably be in here. I'd also take a good look at Boseiju, Who Shelters All, Winding Canyons, Kher Keep, and Yavimaya Hollow.
Cuts:
Dosan the Falling Leaf: I agree, I have tested him a lot and have never been impressed.
Mana Vault and Grim Monolith: Here I have to disagree. Accelrating out a Wort turn 3 is so important against combo decks and the occasional beatdown deck (although I'm not too scared of either of these). Another use is to accelrate a t2-3 LD or disruption spell, also important.
Restock: It's a card that should not be underestimated. It has won me a great deal of attrition wars, and there are many, many cards I would cut before it. The possibility of recurring two LD spells or other good cards are just too good to pass up, not to mention it conspired. Might consider to cut one of them though.
Desert Twister: Do I want removal this expensive? Yeah, I do. Deals with everything, and everything below 7 cost means it can be played the round after Wort.
Adds:
Recollect: Cut this one recently for Revive, as I rarely want to recur anything non-green. Might be wrong on that one though, mostly because of the altars that I might want to recur now and then.
Creeping Mold: A multi-tool that should be in there. The problem is that the list is very tight, but will try my best. Also, don't help too much in our worst matchups.
Land-fetch: Some of these might be better than some of the others I play, but I disagree that they are better than the mana-stones (remember that they are not 100% one-shot either). Tempo is the key. Any suggestions to any of the other land-fetchers that should be cut for any of these?
Sarkhan Vol: I'm uncertain if he deserves a spot, he's definatly good but don't help us towards our over-all goal. Comboes well with both Doubling Season and sac outlets though, might try to test it if I feel the deck is able to win through combat, which so far have been my plan C after combo and LD.
Unwilling Recruit: I'd rather run Firecat Blitz, a card I'm considering, or another x-burn.
Lands: I don't know if I need any more fetches, the land count is pretty low as it is, but they might go in as land number 37 and 38 or something. If someone disagrees on this, please correct me. Boseju should probably be added to help against mono-blue, as many cards can tutor for it as well. I don't think Winding Canyons or Yavimaya Hollow are good enough to justify lowering the count of forests, as cards like Rofellos and other cards that counts forests gets worse. Kher Keep is a card I'm undecided on, can more people voice their opinion on this card?
For now I will test the following changes:
+1 Creeping Mold
+1 Kher Keep
+1 Boseju, Who Shelters All
-1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
-2 Forest
I still think that Restock is totally win-more. Conspiring this is unnecessary, as you should never need to Regrowth 4 cards at once. 1-2 is plenty, and you can achieve that for significantly cheaper with other spells. I don't know what kind of "attrition wars" you're referring to--to me, that usually means mana denial decks like Braids, and Restock is not a card you want if you're having mana problems.
Recollect is better than Revive just because it can get Gaea's Cradle back for you.
I find Sarkhan Vol to be pretty solid because of how many token producers you play. I've definitely been in situations in testing where I had 3 or so token producers for masses of tokens, but no action beyond that. There's just not that much draw in G/R. Sarkhan makes those tokens very lethal, and is quite versatile beyond that function too.
I'm still not sold on Mana Vault/Grim Monolith. They do help you goldfish faster, but you still can't realistically go off until at least turn 4--though you can play Wort on turn 3, you really can't protect her at all. Any kind of removal or counterspell, and you're suddenly in a very deep hole. You have to basically skip a turn to untap the artifact, and by then you're behind. I don't think most competent 1v1 decks are going to let you goldfish through turn 4, so the artifacts are frequently liabilities. They're only really good against bad decks
A couple more suggestions:
Think about Memory Jar instead of or in addition to Wheel of Fortune. It's usually a much better card, especially considering that Wheel of Fortune can't profitably be conspired. You can use the extra draw anyway.
I kind of want to go heavier on land destruction with this deck. Attacking your opponent's manabase is sometimes just as good as accelerating your own, and this deck is at its best when it can rip out a quick Plow Under or something. It might be valuable to pack in some cheap 3cc LD spells (Ice Storm, Winter's Grasp, Thermokarst, Stone Rain, etc.). You may be able to make the deck a little more consistent by improving the disruption and focusing a little less on the "combo."
At 4 cmc, the LD is better:
Edit: Also, Reiterate is really good in Wort decks. Reiterate + Early Harvest/Rude Awakening = fun times and then you can pretty much play any instant or sorcery an infinite amount of times or at least as many as needed.
Pauper Cube
I cube, I play EDH, and I can't afford Legacy. The other formats can suck it.
Also:
+1 Recollect
-1 Revive
What should I cut for Memory Jar and Vol?
Pauper Cube
I cube, I play EDH, and I can't afford Legacy. The other formats can suck it.
Yup, have thought about Doubling Season as well. I'm a little sceptical on the double red on pillage though.
Worse case, you pitch a bunch of stuff you don't want, and get a bunch of stuff you do.
Best case, you conspire it, pitch X cards, return X cards, second resolves and returns all the cards you pitched (the copy already has its costs paid, so you don't have to pitch again for it).
Effectively a Regrowth on crack when conspired.
Just watch out for Counterspells ><, which at least when conspired is the same as casting Nostalgic Dreams on its own.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
I have to agree that Nostalgic Dreams is a good card, and I would definatly run it if mono-blue wasn't one of the most challenging matchups already. Threat density, threat density and threat density is the key in the matchup. Did I mention that threat density is important?:tongue:
If you guys think that it still is powerful enough I might try it out though.
Mana Echoes - another good token abuser. Casting wort with this in play generates 9 mana after she comes into play. Can make any token producer create lethal banefire mana. Can be hard to utilize the colorless mana. Forms a two card combo for infinite colorless mana with Pentavus (creature, so easy to tutor for).
Scapehift - with 7 lands in play is either a 18 damage burn spell or a one sided wrath of god. Fulfills the threat density required versus blue decks even at 4 lands because it can fetch Boseju. Note you dont have to sacrfice any lands if it is countered.
How much of a role does wort play in competitive matches? ie does she actually conspire many spells or does she just trade 1for1 with a removal/counter most of the time? When she does go active how decisive is she? Has anyone considered Radha Hier to Keld instead?
Thanks for the suggestions.
First of all, Mana Echoes only produce 4 mana (I think) from just Wort, since it doesn't count the creature itself. It got cut together with sprout swarm that also creates inf colourless mana, for not doing enough.
When you suggest that Scapeshift can shoot for lots of damage, i guess you refer to fetching Valakut, the molten pinnacle plus mountains. There is one problem though, and that is that this deck doesn't run enough mountains for this to be effective. Not convinced on this one.
About Wort. The difference Wort does is that it allows you to do the combo win. This is because that if you conspire a token producing spell so that it produces more tokens than mana required to play it you can end up netting mana through the altars or earthcraft. Secondly, if Wort survives to your next untap you can gain so much card advantage that the game ends just there. An example of this is one of the more "harmless" spells in the deck, Harmonize. When conspired it draws you 6 cards, which in this deck should be more than enough to finish the game. If you take more powerful ones like Tooth and Nail, you just win. You can play this deck with Radha instead, but I would not recommend it.
I agree that there aren't nearly enough Mountains to play Scapeshift/Valakut, and that Wort is much better than Radha, at least for this style of deck. Wort has been integral to almost all of my wins in testing. Usually you win the turn after resolving Wort, if she sticks. Sometimes you can win the same turn you resolve her.
Making Wort stick is probably the biggest problem for this deck, as I see it, so I want to continue discussion on Mana Vault and Grim Monolith, which are good if Wort sticks and kind of crappy if she doesn't. I've been testing Nature's Lore and Three Visits in these slots, and find them to be much better against competent opponents who actually pack removal. I'm going to keep pushing dropping the artifacts until you at least test other accelerators...I know you can do better.
Also, Fallow Earth is good, and Doubling Season is indeed unnecessary. Pillage (and even Demolish) are worth considering, though the double red cost is annoying (Nature's Lore and Three Visits help color-fix though!).
Nostalgic Dreams is better than Restock. Despite the discard, the much cheaper mana cost gives you a substantially better chance of casting what you get the same turn you recur it, which is a little like a Time Walk in this deck. There will almost always be some cards you don't mind discarding, especially if you're going off, so the drawback really doesn't matter much.
Ok, ok, I will try the changes you suggested:p
Decklist edited, still not convinced on the artifacts though.
Edit: Oh, and also, conspiring LD ftw is powerful, and wins you games.
Cast Wort, the Raidmother.
Wort, the Raidmother resolves, triggering both Mana Echoes and her "create two red and green goblin warrior tokens" trigger.
Put Mana Echoes trigger on the stack, then the token creation.
Token creation trigger resolves, triggering Mana Echoes twice.
First of three Mana Echoes triggers resolves, sees 3 goblins in play, and gives you 3 mana (goblins count themselves, you can go look up the ruling on this).
Second of three Mana Echoes triggers resolves, sees 3 goblins in play, and gives you 3 mana.
Third of three Mana Echoes triggers resolves, sees 3 goblins in play, and gives you 3 mana.
Voila 9 colorless mana.
Yes.
http://magiccards.info/query?q=mana+echoes&v=card&s=cname