Very good response! I recognize that I'm being kind of an antagonistic Johnny right now, and I'm glad you engaged me more maturely than I engaged you. Aherm. =P
Actually, I agree with your assessment of manafacts. In some recent games of mine, I've come to see them as more of a liability, especially with artifact hate being so prevalent in mainboards. I faced off against an Emrakul deck recently that, uh, we'll say "struggled" against things like Kataki and Aura Shards hitting the field early. Taking another look at your deck, I agree that your curve is sufficiently suited for dropping one land per turn, as you're able to fetch answers to the bigger threats. There are only a handful of obnoxious creatures that are obnoxious on their own merits that will show up in the early game (whereas most of them require multiple pieces, at which point your Commander becomes relevant and is, as you've noted, very good removal), so I agree that your mana situation is much better than I initially gave it credit for.
I'm really biased against most any card that costs over 4 (or X) in the format, particularly as there are 2 decks in my meta that not only run Teeg, but there's also 1 that uses him as a commander. But this is certainly a matter of meta, and as long as you're not up against a whole bunch of Johnnies, there's probably no need to reshape your deck with a "cheaper is better" mentality.
I seem to be inhumanly lucky with getting Mindcensor in hand early, so that's a point to be disregarded as well. =P
On a side note, Azusa has also proven to be arguably the strongest deck in my meta (though I've yet to face it!). I can breathe a sigh of relief that I have access to cards like Lignify and Oblation, but damned if I can get either in my hand quickly enough before Emrakul is hard cast on turn 5.
You and Surging Chaos need to battle it out!! For my own curiosity and for the sake of Johnnies everywhere. =P
I'm glad I got you to come around and see why I don't run manafacts anymore I agree that to me they are more of a liability than anything. I don't want to have to waste time and energy playing defense.
I have incorporated a lot of answers to Teeg in my deck via my Transmute package. I have a list of two mana answers in my primer I invite you to take a look at. I also have the option to Cycle Decree of Pain and pop Engineered Explosives. The average casting cost of all the cards in my deck is a little than 3 I think, which is pretty good I believe.
I'd love to playtest with Surging Chaos but he sounds like he's a pretty busy guy so that will have to be up to him if he can find the time.
1. I had most of the transmute package in the deck before I saw your list; the only change I made in that was to add Hero's Demise (until I found I didn't own one...awkward). I am playing Capsize in that slot until I get one.
2. Library was instrumental in me winning 3-4 games (we play 30 life, best 2/3), and completely useless the other ~3 games I saw it; that's what the card does. I still think it's worth the slot, especially since it taps for mana on its own.
3. Merieke was fine, although it was definitely a grinding type of win...had to outwork a Debtor's Knell (Shred Memory helped there) and eventually just got Thrax online with protection and won both times.
One card I play as more of a nod to our 30 life starting point is Elixir of Immortality. It's been solid, and definitely helped me win 2 games yesterday where I got down to single digits and was in a tenuous position. It's also helpful in matchups where you have to really grind out advantages, and it helping you reuse a lot of your stuff has been golden for me. Null Rod interferes, sure, but the matchups where Null Rod is best is usually where Elixir isn't going to help all that much, at least in my experience.
1. Ooh, awkward indeed. How do you like Capsize? I really don't like it much, I don't know why. I was never very thrilled with it whenever I played with it.
2. I can imagine Library being the control match up version of Maze of Ith for aggro. I think that's actually a pretty damn good way to look at it. I'll just pat myself on the back right there... I think you've pretty much sold me on Library. Being able to tap for mana without the need for Urborg is suhweet.
3. I've found that a resolved Debtor's Knell can be pretty troublesome. Bojuka Bog and Shred Memory are pretty important here, glad you could grab the answer.
Elixir of Immortality - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! When I was running Trinket Mage and Tezzeret I considered running that card because I found that if I just had a little more life I could have stabilized and won. Elixir made it in to the deck for about 5 minutes before I was laughed at by MCR, Mutedequilibrium and Evergreen. -____- So I never really got to play with it much. I want to really bad though, and being able to shuffle your graveyard in to your library sounds amazing. I just wish I had room to add it in again and test it, dangit.
I'm glad I got you to come around and see why I don't run manafacts anymore I agree that to me they are more of a liability than anything. I don't want to have to waste time and energy playing defense.
I have incorporated a lot of answers to Teeg in my deck via my Transmute package. I have a list of two mana answers in my primer I invite you to take a look at. I also have the option to Cycle Decree of Pain and pop Engineered Explosives. The average casting cost of all the cards in my deck is a little than 3 I think, which is pretty good I believe.
I'd love to playtest with Surging Chaos but he sounds like he's a pretty busy guy so that will have to be up to him if he can find the time.
1. Ooh, awkward indeed. How do you like Capsize? I really don't like it much, I don't know why. I was never very thrilled with it whenever I played with it.
2. I can imagine Library being the control match up version of Maze of Ith for aggro. I think that's actually a pretty damn good way to look at it. I'll just pat myself on the back right there... I think you've pretty much sold me on Library. Being able to tap for mana without the need for Urborg is suhweet.
3. I've found that a resolved Debtor's Knell can be pretty troublesome. Bojuka Bog and Shred Memory are pretty important here, glad you could grab the answer.
Elixir of Immortality - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! When I was running Trinket Mage and Tezzeret I considered running that card because I found that if I just had a little more life I could have stabilized and won. Elixir made it in to the deck for about 5 minutes before I was laughed at by MCR, Mutedequilibrium and Evergreen. -____- So I never really got to play with it much. I want to really bad though, and being able to shuffle your graveyard in to your library sounds amazing. I just wish I had room to add it in again and test it, dangit.
Theres a reason they laughed at you. Elixir of Immortality is about as powerful as healing salve. Also watch out because you can't cast ee with teeg in play.
But on to some suggestions. Necrologia Seems pretty sick, Instant speed, whatelse can you ask for.
I still do not like the tri land, you have enough fixing as it is. Its better off as a basic to fight bloodmoon/back to basics. Remember you don't run signets anymore.
Mindshatter should still be axed, Hows it been in testing. Remember Tutoring for Hymn to tourach is always better xD. And it doesn't get blocked by teeganator.
Finnally is aggro really giving you that much of a problem? You make it sound like you lose without maze of ith. Care to elaborate whats making you lose or sweat in a match.
1. Ooh, awkward indeed. How do you like Capsize? I really don't like it much, I don't know why. I was never very thrilled with it whenever I played with it.
It was fine; it really helped in one game where I couldn't draw any real removal to keep stuff from killing me, so I was able to just buy time with buyback and eventually got a sweeper. I have a longstanding love for the card, so I tend to put it in almost every blue-based EDH deck whether I should or not, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
Elixir of Immortality - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! When I was running Trinket Mage and Tezzeret I considered running that card because I found that if I just had a little more life I could have stabilized and won. Elixir made it in to the deck for about 5 minutes before I was laughed at by MCR, Mutedequilibrium and Evergreen. -____- So I never really got to play with it much. I want to really bad though, and being able to shuffle your graveyard in to your library sounds amazing. I just wish I had room to add it in again and test it, dangit.
Well, as I said, it was due more to the 30 life bit than anything else. It's another card that I *really* like, probably too much, but I felt it served a purpose within the context of the tournament, and I was satisfied with the slot. Is it amazing? Obviously not. However, it performs a couple of small functions that can be helpful in many different situations, so I think it's at least worth considering.
After our games today (me playing Hermit Druid) I think you should include Cremate definitely and Nihil Spellbomb possibly. They are such amazing tools vs what is probably the best deck in the format while both cycling away in non-relevent match ups for 1 and 2 respectively.
Also as I noted in our games today, I was really unimpressed with Boomerang and bounce spells in general other than as a toolbox solution to enchantments. Bounce spells were good in Clique A) because Clique had a clock and B) Cliques ability. You dont have a clock untill the game is essentially over, so I don't think you gain that much of a tempo advantage from bounce spells, and its card dis-advantage. So your trading a card for a VERY minor tempo advantage that you cant properly capitalize on.
Damn good games tho. Our last one ended with a race between Gilded Drake, Teeg and Dark Confidant vs Thraximundar. Great game haha.
After our games today (me playing Hermit Druid) I think you should include Cremate definitely and Nihil Spellbomb possibly. They are such amazing tools vs what is probably the best deck in the format while both cycling away in non-relevent match ups for 1 and 2 respectively.
Also as I noted in our games today, I was really unimpressed with Boomerang and bounce spells in general other than as a toolbox solution to enchantments. Bounce spells were good in Clique A) because Clique had a clock and B) Cliques ability. You dont have a clock untill the game is essentially over, so I don't think you gain that much of a tempo advantage from bounce spells, and its card dis-advantage. So your trading a card for a VERY minor tempo advantage that you cant properly capitalize on.
Damn good games tho. Our last one ended with a race between Gilded Drake, Teeg and Dark Confidant vs Thraximundar. Great game haha.
Hey buddy, interesting suggestions. Cremate sounds intriguing and Nihil Spellbomb isn't a bad thought either. I do have that open spot that I'm testing and either of those could fit nicely. Maybe I'll try Cremate first, we'll have to do some more testing vs. Hermit Druid.dec. Something I've thought about is adding Trinket Mage back in to the deck, and if I add Nihil Spellbomb in that could be a possibility. Trinket Mage's current targets would be Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle, Sensei's Divining Top and Nihil Spellbomb if I add it in. I'm worried about possibly awkward situations between Nihil Spellbomb and Null Rod, though. I know I run Top and EE, but that's only an issue once in a blue moon. I suppose the same argument could be made here though. I'm not sure, just a thought, what say you?
I'll be updating my primer in a month or so, after the tournament. I've made some changes to the deck in the last couple of weeks but I don't want to post them yet in case someone checks out my not so secret list
My Sharuum deck plays a pretty similar game as your Thraximundar, and I tested Cremate (against Hermit Druid for example), but all in all I don't think it worths a slot. I'm not convinced on Nihil Spellbomb either, I think the deck is doing just fine with only Shred Memory (at least mine).
Interesting, thanks for the heads up. I also have Bokuja Bog in the deck as well. There's also Dissipate, Mindbreak Trap and Hinder to keep cards out of the graveyard. Those aren't as reliable but it could happen.
Christian, if you aren't going to prereleases, you wanna meet up maybe Saturday afternoon to play some. I need to test Skittles and maybe a new version of GCO.
Christian, if you aren't going to prereleases, you wanna meet up maybe Saturday afternoon to play some. I need to test Skittles and maybe a new version of GCO.
What time are you thinking on Saturday? I'm pretty sure I'm down. I just started an internship and I get off at 8 AM and usually sleep until like 5 or 6 PM. I'm down for some testing though, where did you have in mind? Franks will be closed by the time I get up.
Consecrated Sphinx is actually really good in this deck. Tapping 6 on your own turn is a bit steep, but you an do it late game with counter backup if the game has gone on long, and the CA it provides is backbreaking
Consecrated Sphinx is actually really good in this deck. Tapping 6 on your own turn is a bit steep, but you an do it late game with counter backup if the game has gone on long, and the CA it provides is backbreaking
I might agree with you if this were a multiplayer deck. However, this isn't and I just don't think that tapping out on turn six to play something that doesn't apply the same amount of pressure as Thrax does when I plan on tapping out on turn seven is a great idea. I don't plan on winning by dealing 30 points of damage. I plan on winning by dealing 21 points of damage. Consecrated Sphinx is a great card, sure, but not in this deck. Thank you for the suggestion though.
Just played against Hunter245... I'll give you a brief report.
Game 1 - Landed a ton of artifacts... The lack of artifact removal killed me. Had Winter Orb, Sphere of Resistance, and Thorn of Athemyst... With Rishidan Port locking me down with the orb up I was dieing pretty quick to my own Phyrexian Arena. I eventually used top to get a strip mine to stop the Port. But by then it was too late. No answer to Winter Orb killed me.
Game 2 - Opened with Null Rod... Game lasted about 3 turns before he scooped a hand full of artifacts.
Game 3 - Turn 3 Mana Drain on a 4 drop won that pretty fast. Got Thrax right after and he scooped.
Played in our local 1v1 event yesterday and smashed face, losing one game to a resolved Cataclysm. The deck is just dumb. I am actually hoping our meta gets a bit less competitive so I can stop playing it, because while I enjoy it, it (and other ridiculous decks) doesn't really promote a format that many people like.
So, yeah, not much else to add; no other games were really close at all, even when I got hit for Persecute naming blue and essentially got Mind Twisted.
Just played against Hunter245... I'll give you a brief report.
Game 1 - Landed a ton of artifacts... The lack of artifact removal killed me. Had Winter Orb, Sphere of Resistance, and Thorn of Athemyst... With Rishidan Port locking me down with the orb up I was dieing pretty quick to my own Phyrexian Arena. I eventually used top to get a strip mine to stop the Port. But by then it was too late. No answer to Winter Orb killed me.
Game 2 - Opened with Null Rod... Game lasted about 3 turns before he scooped a hand full of artifacts.
Game 3 - Turn 3 Mana Drain on a 4 drop won that pretty fast. Got Thrax right after and he scooped.
You kind of have to be tricky when dealing with artifacts in this deck. I essentially have two real answers, Shattering Pulse and Crosis's Charm. Notable mention to Null Rod. However I also run some bounce in the deck as well so you need to keep that in mind also. The only other piece of artifact hate I would ever consider running is Shattering Spree. I just really don't want to run it though as it's kind of a one shot deal and I just don't want to spend the card slot on another artifact hate card. This may or may not be right, but that's what I'm going with. If you feel the deck needs it, then by all means
Played in our local 1v1 event yesterday and smashed face, losing one game to a resolved Cataclysm. The deck is just dumb. I am actually hoping our meta gets a bit less competitive so I can stop playing it, because while I enjoy it, it (and other ridiculous decks) doesn't really promote a format that many people like.
So, yeah, not much else to add; no other games were really close at all, even when I got hit for Persecute naming blue and essentially got Mind Twisted.
Awesome man, congratulations. What were some of the decks that you played against?
Have you been looking at the new black card, Black Sun's Zenith? It seems to work quite well with your tutor package, and can be reused.
I have actually considered it, yeah. I haven't tested it yet but the fact that it's a sorcery and would require me to pay a ton of mana to use it kinda bums me out. I have taken a liking to another card from MBS though It's cheaper than Black Sun's Zenith for what it does and has the option to hit planeswalkers. So I went with cheaper + more versatility in that slot.
Awesome man, congratulations. What were some of the decks that you played against?
I played against UB Sygg tempo/aggro twice, Sisay (my build, and we split the finals also), Rafiq, and Skithyrix. My one game loss was game 2 to Rafiq when he had Cataclysm + Sylvan and I couldn't stop it as I'd had to hardcast Decree of Pain the previous turn. I got to Mana Drain into a Mind Shatter for 7 against him in game 1, though, so I guess we're even.
How were your games vs. Sygg? I was having a really rough time with that matchup and added three cards specifically for it (as well as having uses outside of just Sygg). Would you be willing to PM me your list? I'd like to check it out if you don't mind. I <3 Mana Drain.
How were your games vs. Sygg? I was having a really rough time with that matchup and added three cards specifically for it (as well as having uses outside of just Sygg). Would you be willing to PM me your list? I'd like to check it out if you don't mind. I <3 Mana Drain.
He drew pretty poorly, so the games weren't really problematic at all. With a good draw I could see it being an issue, but I haven't really played against it outside of those games.
Eh, it's within a few cards of your last posted list; I haven't really added anything of note. I don't play Hymn, Pyroclasm, Devour in Shadow, or Mindbreak Trap. In those slots, I have Slagstorm, Capsize, Into the Roil, and Lim-Dul's Vault. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same. Oh, plus I play Library of Alexandria.
He drew pretty poorly, so the games weren't really problematic at all. With a good draw I could see it being an issue, but I haven't really played against it outside of those games.
Eh, it's within a few cards of your last posted list; I haven't really added anything of note. I don't play Hymn, Pyroclasm, Devour in Shadow, or Mindbreak Trap. In those slots, I have Slagstorm, Capsize, Into the Roil, and Lim-Dul's Vault. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same. Oh, plus I play Library of Alexandria.
How do you like Into the Roil? I've thought about playing it before but the cantripping doesn't excite me very much. I play Echoing Truth in that slot cause it hits tokens. I play Library online and I love it. I haven't had the chance to buy it yet, though I think I'll hold off until we find out whether or not it's going to get banned.
What would you like me to do with this? If you'd like suggestions I'd be more than happy to help you but I need more to work with than just a deck list. Also, if you could put card tags around your cards that would be helpful.
Into the Roil is fine, and I like getting value out if everything I possibly can, so I always kick it unless I just can't wait. Echoing Truth is fine, and I would recommend it perhaps in a more diverse environment; ours doesn't really have any token decks, so I prefer the added value of drawing a card.
I don't have to worry about Library getting the axe here, really, because we have our own list, and it hasn't been a problem at all. I think the thought process of banning Library when Academy and Will are acceptable is flawed beyond comprehension, but whatever.
How do you like Into the Roil? I've thought about playing it before but the cantripping doesn't excite me very much. I play Echoing Truth in that slot cause it hits tokens. I play Library online and I love it. I haven't had the chance to buy it yet, though I think I'll hold off until we find out whether or not it's going to get banned.
What would you like me to do with this? If you'd like suggestions I'd be more than happy to help you but I need more to work with than just a deck list. Also, if you could put card tags around your cards that would be helpful.
Nah just thought I'd share with people working on a decklist.
Though there are some cards that would need to come out like Basalt Monolith and Mystic Speculation.
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Once I made a misplay. I lost the game.
Xian says:
but now i dont have double vision,and stuff
i looks just like a normal person
Into the Roil is fine, and I like getting value out if everything I possibly can, so I always kick it unless I just can't wait. Echoing Truth is fine, and I would recommend it perhaps in a more diverse environment; ours doesn't really have any token decks, so I prefer the added value of drawing a card.
I don't have to worry about Library getting the axe here, really, because we have our own list, and it hasn't been a problem at all. I think the thought process of banning Library when Academy and Will are acceptable is flawed beyond comprehension, but whatever.
Yeah, I can definitely see why you would like Into the Roil. I think in the end it's more of a matter of preference. What kind of banned list do you guys use? How much different is it than the MTGS list? You don't think Library is ban worthy?
Alright, regarding your comment on the basic lands, I can't use more than 6 cause of Tainted Pact (Which is awesome in this deck by the way and you probably know it). Just like Demonic Consultation, I don't like cards that have a chance to completely ruin my game plan so that's why I'm not taking any chances.
While I kind of agree that pain lands can be bad sometimes, I think the manabase is shaky enough to play them anyways. I mean I could swap them for the cip untapped if <3 lands but I'm not sure if I like them. What would you recommend instead of em'?
these are the cards I wasn't impressed with during testing:
- Lavaclaw Reaches
- Crumbling Necropolice
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Bitterblossom (might save you if youre behind, but it doesnt go well with arena effects and doesnt do much if youre not under pressure)
recent changes:
- cruel ultimatum + jace ingenuity
- basalt monolith + pithing needle
- hymn to tourach + inquisition of kozilek
- shriekmaw + hero's demise
- thran dynamo + imperial seal
- mystic speculation + grim tutor
- Bitterblossom + pyroclasm
- mind spring + mystical tutor
- thawing glacier + blackcleave cliffs
- urborg, tomb of yawgomth + darkslick shores
- relic of progenitus + bojuka bog
- coalition relic + mana vault
- gilded lotus + dark ritual
- evacuation + banefire
- wrecking ball + dismiss
Alright, regarding your comment on the basic lands, I can't use more than 6 cause of Tainted Pact (Which is awesome in this deck by the way and you probably know it). Just like Demonic Consultation, I don't like cards that have a chance to completely ruin my game plan so that's why I'm not taking any chances.
While I kind of agree that pain lands can be bad sometimes, I think the manabase is shaky enough to play them anyways. I mean I could swap them for the cip untapped if <3 lands but I'm not sure if I like them. What would you recommend instead of em'?
Would you like recommendations on your card choices at all? Cause I see a few cards that I would recommend cutting. And right, I didn't put two and two together for the Tainted Pact. I've thought about running Tainted Pact, but making myself more vulnerable to non-basic land hate kind of pushed me away from that. How about some more man lands? I'd also try out those lands from SOM Block, I forgot their names. Thawing Glaciers seems kinda bad also.
I'm glad I got you to come around and see why I don't run manafacts anymore I agree that to me they are more of a liability than anything. I don't want to have to waste time and energy playing defense.
I have incorporated a lot of answers to Teeg in my deck via my Transmute package. I have a list of two mana answers in my primer I invite you to take a look at. I also have the option to Cycle Decree of Pain and pop Engineered Explosives. The average casting cost of all the cards in my deck is a little than 3 I think, which is pretty good I believe.
I'd love to playtest with Surging Chaos but he sounds like he's a pretty busy guy so that will have to be up to him if he can find the time.
1. Ooh, awkward indeed. How do you like Capsize? I really don't like it much, I don't know why. I was never very thrilled with it whenever I played with it.
2. I can imagine Library being the control match up version of Maze of Ith for aggro. I think that's actually a pretty damn good way to look at it. I'll just pat myself on the back right there... I think you've pretty much sold me on Library. Being able to tap for mana without the need for Urborg is suhweet.
3. I've found that a resolved Debtor's Knell can be pretty troublesome. Bojuka Bog and Shred Memory are pretty important here, glad you could grab the answer.
Elixir of Immortality - THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!! When I was running Trinket Mage and Tezzeret I considered running that card because I found that if I just had a little more life I could have stabilized and won. Elixir made it in to the deck for about 5 minutes before I was laughed at by MCR, Mutedequilibrium and Evergreen. -____- So I never really got to play with it much. I want to really bad though, and being able to shuffle your graveyard in to your library sounds amazing. I just wish I had room to add it in again and test it, dangit.
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Theres a reason they laughed at you. Elixir of Immortality is about as powerful as healing salve. Also watch out because you can't cast ee with teeg in play.
But on to some suggestions. Necrologia Seems pretty sick, Instant speed, whatelse can you ask for.
I still do not like the tri land, you have enough fixing as it is. Its better off as a basic to fight bloodmoon/back to basics. Remember you don't run signets anymore.
Mindshatter should still be axed, Hows it been in testing. Remember Tutoring for Hymn to tourach is always better xD. And it doesn't get blocked by teeganator.
Finnally is aggro really giving you that much of a problem? You make it sound like you lose without maze of ith. Care to elaborate whats making you lose or sweat in a match.
EDIT: I should of read Necrologia...
It was fine; it really helped in one game where I couldn't draw any real removal to keep stuff from killing me, so I was able to just buy time with buyback and eventually got a sweeper. I have a longstanding love for the card, so I tend to put it in almost every blue-based EDH deck whether I should or not, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
Well, as I said, it was due more to the 30 life bit than anything else. It's another card that I *really* like, probably too much, but I felt it served a purpose within the context of the tournament, and I was satisfied with the slot. Is it amazing? Obviously not. However, it performs a couple of small functions that can be helpful in many different situations, so I think it's at least worth considering.
Also as I noted in our games today, I was really unimpressed with Boomerang and bounce spells in general other than as a toolbox solution to enchantments. Bounce spells were good in Clique A) because Clique had a clock and B) Cliques ability. You dont have a clock untill the game is essentially over, so I don't think you gain that much of a tempo advantage from bounce spells, and its card dis-advantage. So your trading a card for a VERY minor tempo advantage that you cant properly capitalize on.
Damn good games tho. Our last one ended with a race between Gilded Drake, Teeg and Dark Confidant vs Thraximundar. Great game haha.
Hey buddy, interesting suggestions. Cremate sounds intriguing and Nihil Spellbomb isn't a bad thought either. I do have that open spot that I'm testing and either of those could fit nicely. Maybe I'll try Cremate first, we'll have to do some more testing vs. Hermit Druid.dec. Something I've thought about is adding Trinket Mage back in to the deck, and if I add Nihil Spellbomb in that could be a possibility. Trinket Mage's current targets would be Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle, Sensei's Divining Top and Nihil Spellbomb if I add it in. I'm worried about possibly awkward situations between Nihil Spellbomb and Null Rod, though. I know I run Top and EE, but that's only an issue once in a blue moon. I suppose the same argument could be made here though. I'm not sure, just a thought, what say you?
I'll be updating my primer in a month or so, after the tournament. I've made some changes to the deck in the last couple of weeks but I don't want to post them yet in case someone checks out my not so secret list
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Interesting, thanks for the heads up. I also have Bokuja Bog in the deck as well. There's also Dissipate, Mindbreak Trap and Hinder to keep cards out of the graveyard. Those aren't as reliable but it could happen.
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One-Eyed Black | Orzhov Combo | Ooze Reanimator | Mindwheeling Pain
What time are you thinking on Saturday? I'm pretty sure I'm down. I just started an internship and I get off at 8 AM and usually sleep until like 5 or 6 PM. I'm down for some testing though, where did you have in mind? Franks will be closed by the time I get up.
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I might agree with you if this were a multiplayer deck. However, this isn't and I just don't think that tapping out on turn six to play something that doesn't apply the same amount of pressure as Thrax does when I plan on tapping out on turn seven is a great idea. I don't plan on winning by dealing 30 points of damage. I plan on winning by dealing 21 points of damage. Consecrated Sphinx is a great card, sure, but not in this deck. Thank you for the suggestion though.
- I think I said plan a lot.
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Game 1 - Landed a ton of artifacts... The lack of artifact removal killed me. Had Winter Orb, Sphere of Resistance, and Thorn of Athemyst... With Rishidan Port locking me down with the orb up I was dieing pretty quick to my own Phyrexian Arena. I eventually used top to get a strip mine to stop the Port. But by then it was too late. No answer to Winter Orb killed me.
Game 2 - Opened with Null Rod... Game lasted about 3 turns before he scooped a hand full of artifacts.
Game 3 - Turn 3 Mana Drain on a 4 drop won that pretty fast. Got Thrax right after and he scooped.
So, yeah, not much else to add; no other games were really close at all, even when I got hit for Persecute naming blue and essentially got Mind Twisted.
Haha I miss you too man we need to catch up and play soon.
You kind of have to be tricky when dealing with artifacts in this deck. I essentially have two real answers, Shattering Pulse and Crosis's Charm. Notable mention to Null Rod. However I also run some bounce in the deck as well so you need to keep that in mind also. The only other piece of artifact hate I would ever consider running is Shattering Spree. I just really don't want to run it though as it's kind of a one shot deal and I just don't want to spend the card slot on another artifact hate card. This may or may not be right, but that's what I'm going with. If you feel the deck needs it, then by all means
Mana Drain in to Thraximundar is one of my favorite plays, glad you were able to do it.
Awesome man, congratulations. What were some of the decks that you played against?
I have actually considered it, yeah. I haven't tested it yet but the fact that it's a sorcery and would require me to pay a ton of mana to use it kinda bums me out. I have taken a liking to another card from MBS though It's cheaper than Black Sun's Zenith for what it does and has the option to hit planeswalkers. So I went with cheaper + more versatility in that slot.
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I played against UB Sygg tempo/aggro twice, Sisay (my build, and we split the finals also), Rafiq, and Skithyrix. My one game loss was game 2 to Rafiq when he had Cataclysm + Sylvan and I couldn't stop it as I'd had to hardcast Decree of Pain the previous turn. I got to Mana Drain into a Mind Shatter for 7 against him in game 1, though, so I guess we're even.
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He drew pretty poorly, so the games weren't really problematic at all. With a good draw I could see it being an issue, but I haven't really played against it outside of those games.
Eh, it's within a few cards of your last posted list; I haven't really added anything of note. I don't play Hymn, Pyroclasm, Devour in Shadow, or Mindbreak Trap. In those slots, I have Slagstorm, Capsize, Into the Roil, and Lim-Dul's Vault. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same. Oh, plus I play Library of Alexandria.
1 [UNH] Mountain
1 [UNH] Swamp
1 [UNH] Island
1 [8E] City of Brass
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [AN] Library of Alexandria
1 [EVE] Cascade Bluffs
1 [SHM] Sunken Ruins
1 [SHM] Graven Cairns
1 [M11] Dragonskull Summit
1 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
1 [TE] Wasteland
1 [4E] Strip Mine
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
1 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [OD] Darkwater Catacombs
1 [FUT] River of Tears
1 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
1 [OD] Shadowblood Ridge
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [A] Underground Sea
1 [A] Badlands
1 [DIS] Blood Crypt
1 [RAV] Watery Grave
1 [GP] Steam Vents
1 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
1 [WWK] Lavaclaw Reaches
1 [ALA] Crumbling Necropolis
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
1 [10E] Shivan Reef
1 [10E] Underground River
1 [10E] Sulfurous Springs
1 [AL] Thawing Glaciers
// Creatures
1 [MI] Dwarven Miner
1 [ON] Dwarven Blastminer
1 [RAV] Dark Confidant
1 [OD] Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
1 [US] Gilded Drake
// Spells
1 [OD] Tainted Pact
1 [TE] Intuition
1 [MR] Gilded Lotus
1 [GP] Shattering Spree
1 [FUT] Coalition Relic
1 [RAV] Shred Memory
1 [9E] Rewind
1 [PS] Crosis's Charm
1 [U] Red Elemental Blast
1 [MOR] Bitterblossom
1 [M11] Mana Leak
1 [M11] Preordain
1 [10E] Telling Time
1 [DD2] Counterspell
1 [LRW] Cryptic Command
1 [TSP] Mystical Teachings
1 [LG] Mana Drain
1 [VI] Impulse
1 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [9E] Phyrexian Arena
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 [M11] Jace Beleren
1 [UD] Treachery
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [M11] Lightning Bolt
1 [PS] Terminate
1 [CHK] Hinder
1 [6E] Vampiric Tutor
1 [A] Demonic Tutor
1 [TE] Diabolic Edict
1 [PLC] Damnation
1 [DD2] Fact or Fiction
1 [M11] Duress
1 [M10] Mind Spring
1 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [DIS] Wrecking Ball
1 [M11] Dark Tutelage
1 [UL] Grim Monolith
1 [FD] Devour in Shadow
1 [10E] Evacuation
1 [UD] Thran Dynamo
1 [A] Basalt Monolith
1 [FUT] Mystic Speculation
1 [MBS] Go for the Throat
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
1 [RAV] Remand
1 [ALA] Cruel Ultimatum
1 [10E] Flashfreeze
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Thraximundar
Xian says:
but now i dont have double vision,and stuff
i looks just like a normal person
How do you like Into the Roil? I've thought about playing it before but the cantripping doesn't excite me very much. I play Echoing Truth in that slot cause it hits tokens. I play Library online and I love it. I haven't had the chance to buy it yet, though I think I'll hold off until we find out whether or not it's going to get banned.
What would you like me to do with this? If you'd like suggestions I'd be more than happy to help you but I need more to work with than just a deck list. Also, if you could put card tags around your cards that would be helpful.
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I don't have to worry about Library getting the axe here, really, because we have our own list, and it hasn't been a problem at all. I think the thought process of banning Library when Academy and Will are acceptable is flawed beyond comprehension, but whatever.
Nah just thought I'd share with people working on a decklist.
Though there are some cards that would need to come out like Basalt Monolith and Mystic Speculation.
Xian says:
but now i dont have double vision,and stuff
i looks just like a normal person
Yeah, I can definitely see why you would like Into the Roil. I think in the end it's more of a matter of preference. What kind of banned list do you guys use? How much different is it than the MTGS list? You don't think Library is ban worthy?
Oh okay, gotcha. Yeah I think I would cut those also. You could use some more basics, I'd cut out those pain lands. They're... painful. YEEEEEEEAHHHH
Yeah I will soon, after the tournament. The newest version probably has the lowest curve of all the versions of the deck so far, which is good.
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Hang on lemme get a clean list first.
1 Dwarven Miner
1 Dwarven Blastminer
1 Dark Confidant
1 Gilded Drake
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells: (49)
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Remand
1 Mana Leak
1 Mana Drain
1 Flashfreeze
1 Counterspell
1 Hinder
1 Dismiss
1 Rewind
1 Cryptic Command
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Telling Time
1 Impulse
1 Tainted Pact
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Jace Beleren
1 Grim Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace Ingenuity
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroclasm
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero's Demise
1 Terminate
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Devour in Shadow
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Damnation
1 Banefire
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
1 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Shred Memory
1 Shattering Spree
1 Treachery
Lands: (44)
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Underground Sea
1 Blood Crypt
1 Badlands
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Crumbling Necropolis
1 City of Brass
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Graven Cairns
1 Shivan Reef
1 Underground River
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 River of Tears
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thraximundar
While I kind of agree that pain lands can be bad sometimes, I think the manabase is shaky enough to play them anyways. I mean I could swap them for the cip untapped if <3 lands but I'm not sure if I like them. What would you recommend instead of em'?
these are the cards I wasn't impressed with during testing:
- Lavaclaw Reaches
- Crumbling Necropolice
- Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- Bitterblossom (might save you if youre behind, but it doesnt go well with arena effects and doesnt do much if youre not under pressure)
recent changes:
- cruel ultimatum + jace ingenuity
- basalt monolith + pithing needle
- hymn to tourach + inquisition of kozilek
- shriekmaw + hero's demise
- thran dynamo + imperial seal
- mystic speculation + grim tutor
- Bitterblossom + pyroclasm
- mind spring + mystical tutor
- thawing glacier + blackcleave cliffs
- urborg, tomb of yawgomth + darkslick shores
- relic of progenitus + bojuka bog
- coalition relic + mana vault
- gilded lotus + dark ritual
- evacuation + banefire
- wrecking ball + dismiss
Xian says:
but now i dont have double vision,and stuff
i looks just like a normal person
Would you like recommendations on your card choices at all? Cause I see a few cards that I would recommend cutting. And right, I didn't put two and two together for the Tainted Pact. I've thought about running Tainted Pact, but making myself more vulnerable to non-basic land hate kind of pushed me away from that. How about some more man lands? I'd also try out those lands from SOM Block, I forgot their names. Thawing Glaciers seems kinda bad also.
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