Hey Surging, I was watching your video again. It just occurred to me that if I run Bogardan Hellkite (since I play Mayael as my general), I can do the Reveillark combo and combo out to an infinite damage?
Hey Surging, I was watching your video again. It just occurred to me that if I run Bogardan Hellkite (since I play Mayael as my general), I can do the Reveillark combo and combo out to an infinite damage?
Yes. Any creature that has a relevant comes into play or leaves play ability will suffice for the 5th combo piece.
A lot of people have been suggesting/playing with cards that I consider underpowered, primarily because they don't fit into the curve of how this deck wants to play out. To illustrate how a tuned Sisay deck can roll out, I decided to keep rough logs of some games I played on MWS with my Sisay list.
I've played 4 2/3 matches so far, against competitive decks, and won all 8 games handily. Here's a rough summary of what happened each game. I didn't start taking detailed notes until my 3rd game, so some of the logs are vague, and one I don't remember details on. I have notes from the best games though.
Opponent: Teneb, the Harvester, focused on some kind of Project-X graveyard infinite combo shenanigans
I prevent my opponent from casting anything too threatening in these games, so I just noted how my deck unrolled.
Game 1"
t1: Forest, Mana Crypt, Sakura-Tribe Elder
t2: Sisay
t3: fetched Gaddock Teeg, played him (He had 3 lands and I was most concerned about a wrath effect). I also played the Hua Tuo I had in my hand.
t4: fetched Rofellos, played Rofellos and Saffi Eriksdotter, ended my turn with Yavimaya Hollow + a Forest untapped for even more protection. My opponent tapped 3 mana to play something.
t5: fetched Hokori, Dust Drinker, played the Myojin of Life's Web I drew into, removed the counter to drop Hokori, Mangara, and Iona, Shield of Emeria into play. My opponent concedes.
Game 2:
I had a slower start, with a turn 2 Rampant Growth and a turn 3 Sisay.
t4: fetched Gaddock Teeg, played him + Umezawa's Jitte, Wastelanded something.
t5: fetched and played Rofellos, equipped Jitte to Teeg, made some counters
t6: fetched Iona, played Gaea's Cradle and Myojin of Life's Web from hand, removed counter to drop Iona and Reveillark into play. My opponents taps 3 mana for something.
t7: fetched and played Hokori, attacked
t8: fetched and played Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, double overrun, lethal damage
Opponent: Jhoira of the Ghitu
Once again, my opponent managed to do nothing relevant. He played Jhoira and suspended some stuff each game, and lost before anything unsuspended.
Game 1:
t2: Priest of Titania
t3: Thousand-Year Elixir, Wastelanded something
t4: Sisay, end of my opponent's turn I fetch Rofellos + Glissa Sunseeker (I didn't write down what artifact he had, but it was some accelerant)
t5: I play Rofellos, Glissa, shoot his accelerant, play Miren (destroying my opponent's Miren). I forget what I fetched, but I played a Strip Mine next turn (bringing my opponent to 1 land, and he conceded).
Game 2:
I don't have clear records of this game, but it was a slaughter. He resolved no spells except a turn 3 Jhoira. I had a turn 2 Sisay, and I accelerated into Rofellos and Gaea's Cradle and nailed him with Rofellos, Umbral Mantle, 3 Forests, and Kamahl for trample. I think I won on turn 4, might have been 5.
Opponent: Sharuum the Hegemon
My opponent recognizes me, and tells me that his deck is modeled off of my Sharuum list. My list is extremely competitive. Uh oh.
Game 1:
He goes first, and plays a land, Sol Ring, and a Signet. I'm resigned to probably losing this one already, with my slowish hand. I have to Enlightened Tutor for Sol Ring on my 2nd turn, to resolve a turn 3 Sisay. (I only had 2 lands in my opener, after a mulligan. He continues to accelerate on his 2nd turn, and resolves a turn 3 Memnarch. (He's pretty much out of cards in hand at this point...it's all on the table.)
I fetch and play Kataki. My opponent untaps, taps most of his mana to save his artifacts, taps his last 3 to steal my Sol Ring, attacks with Memnarch, and passes. I fetch and play Hokori. With 2 Sol Rings and some other artifact mana, he can keep all his stuff alive, but only barely. We have about 3 turns of draw-go, with him slowly beating me down with Memnarch. I'm just fetching and playing lands for the most part, starting with Gaea's Cradle to keep the mana flowing. Finally I get enough mana to fetch and play Glissa. He struggles a bit, but between Kataki, Hokori, and Glissa, he's locked down solidly, and concedes after I blow up his Sol Rings.
Game 2:
I have to mull to 4 (!!!), and keep a dodgy hand with 1 land, Priest of Titania, and not much else. However, he has a slow start too, without only Darksteel Ingot for early acceleration. I'm lucky enough to have 2 lands in my top 3 cards, one of which is Gaea's Cradle, and resolve the turn 3 Sisay. During this time, my opponent has used Tolaria West to find Academy Ruins, and has found enough acceleration to play Mindslaver the turn after. I'm holding some removal spells that will wreck me if he manages to activate Slaver, and between Sharuum and Academy Ruins, he can surely lock me before I recover. I have 1 turn to handle it. I think for a while, and end up having just enough mana to Sisay up Rofellos, play him, cast Eladamri's Call to find Acidic Slime, Slime the Mindslaver, and Wasteland his Academy Ruins. He rage-quits when I play the Wasteland.
Opponent: Arcum Dagsson
Really needs no introduction, does he? Srs bsns.
Game 1:
He goes first and has a SDT, but I have the turn 1 Sol Ring, resulting a turn 2 Sisay. He has a lot more mana though--by his 3rd turn, he has Grim Monolith, Thran Dynamo, and Tolarian Academy out. I Wasteland his Academy, and fetch and play Kataki. He pays for most his artifacts with Thran Dynamo, plays Lightning Greaves, and passes. On my turn 4, I fetch and play Glissa, and he concedes. (On my next turn, I would have blown up his Dynamo and played Hokori to completely lock him down.)
Game 2:
He starts off with a turn 1 Mana Vault, and follows that up with Darksteel Ingot and Etherium Sculptor. Meanwhile, I have turn 1 Boreal Druid into turn 2 Selesnya Signet + Gaddock Teeg. He plays Mishra's Workshop and tries to play Mishra's Helix, but I remind him that it's Teeged. I play Sisay on turn 3, he has nothing he can play but Jace Beleren (he has only 3 mana that could go towards Arcum). I fetch up Kataki, and he comments that my deck seems to be specially designed to beat his and quits.
Those are the only games I've had time to play in the last couple days, and it's obviously not a large sample size, but I think it gives a pretty decent indication of how the deck plays. It's easy to say, oh wow, you got were so lucky to draw that card in that game, but that's the way this game is. I don't think one can argue that I was consistently lucky in these games--I played second both games against Sharuum and Arcum, dealt with turn 1 Sol Ring/Mana Crypt, turn 3 Memnarch, had to mulligan to 4 cards once...and I still won them all. I probably outplayed a couple of my opponents, but again, that's how this game is.
It's true that I never had to deal with Sisay getting killed or stolen, but I think I can credit a lot of that to timely use of Teeg and Kataki/Hokori. I have played several games in the past where I couldn't get Sisay to stick,
Note how consistent the deck is with
I think the most important thing to note is that in all of these games, I had the game won or pretty much locked up by about turn 5, or 6 at the latest. I always had Sisay by turn 2 or 3 due to my huge number of 1-2 mana accelerants, and this was instrumental to my success. Faster Sisay means faster Teeg/Kataki, and resolving those early is hugely important. Note how consistent the deck is with an early Sisay--against any kind of slowish deck I can lead with Teeg, and I can shut down artifacts with Kataki/Glissa. Hokori makes an appearance whenever an opponent taps out, and usually spells game-over when he does. When an opponent is locked down like that, you don't even need a specific win condition--anything works. Many of my opponents just concede once their mana is locked down. I do think it's interesting that I didn't actually win via a combo once (unless you count Myojin + Iona)--just the disruptive elements of the deck tend to be sufficient to secure victory. I generally end up winning with combos only when things go wrong and the game goes long, which didn't happen in any of these games.
Because I'm winning/dominating the game, so quickly, mana is TIGHT, even with access to Rofellos and Gaea's Cradle. I was tapping out every turn, and I needed all that mana.
This is why I can't easily justify playing slow or inefficient cards that do not directly contribute to me winning the game, such as Stonecloaker. Despite all the utility, it's rarely usable because the cost is too much for the effect, and because I can never afford to keep mana open. In these 8 games I played, Stonecloaker would have been decent in only one of them (the 2nd game against Sharuum, if hadn't quit). The rest of the time, it would have been a dead card. Part of the reason I feel my build is so successful is because I try hard to avoid situational cards--almost every card in my deck is good at any time, against any deck. The exceptions to this rule, like Kataki and Iona, earn their slots by being tremendously good against certain decks.
Khymera, I read your last post, and I think you've found probably the best way to play Sisay in 1v1. You're right, accelerating Sisay out sooner than later is better, since she doesn't exactly change being a frail 2/2 anyway. This also greatly helps out that you only need to worry about one person disrupting you instead of two to five at a table.
I think however, that a lot of the slightly slower utility cards that don't get Sisay out faster could still be played without too many problems in multiplayer, where card quality matters a lot more. That's just me though, but I can live with chopping off some of the utilities like Elder/Dryad/Jens for their faster counterparts.
Myojin of Life's Web has been great like you've said. At the very worst, he's an 8/8 that's indestructible, which is definately an upgrade over the white Myojin's 4/6 body. I took out the white Myojin for him, so now I can work more on overpowering my opponent through brute force with Kamahl and the core disruption package (Teeg/Kataki/Hokori) to keep my opponent down.
More later. I really should be making myself dinner since I'm so ****ing starving.
Soemthing odd I noted in your games was that you Wastelanded a land by Turn 3 in 4 of the 8 games. Do you have something that is fetching the land in the deck or was it luck that you drew a Wasteland by turn 3 50% of your games?
OUT:
-1 Snow-Covered Plains
-1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
-1 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
-1 Enlisted Wurm
-1 Expedition Map
-1 Krosan Grip
-1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Soemthing odd I noted in your games was that you Wastelanded a land by Turn 3 in 4 of the 8 games. Do you have something that is fetching the land in the deck or was it luck that you drew a Wasteland by turn 3 50% of your games?
Chaos, looks really solid and I think it's more defensive general than Rhys. i had tons of fun with Rhys but the inflexibility of the general without board position or answers for a general board made me dislike him( there's really not much tutoring for GW for an answer but Sisay makes this great).
I personally think that Martyr's Cause should be in here. From playing Rhys, this card single handedly stops all StP/Path/Treachery effects and making all your creatures immune to removal (not really but you can recur them all back with Genesis).
I'm a fan of Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer over the green land tutors. Would Oracle of Mul Daya be any good in this deck?
I like how Sisay can consistently tutor out Gaea's Cradle. Beautiful. I had an idea with Sisay before and it involved tutoring for Lin-sivi which fetches a couple of good rebel cards (bound in silence, crib swap, deathtouching rebels, elven poacher which then tutors and puts into play any elves). Not sure if this is another route but requires more dedicated space.
Don't you have problem facing hate when you land Survival/dangerous item that attracts hate from multiplayer groups?
Martyr's Cause seems like an interesting idea, and he is Gaddock Teeg-friendly which is a big plus. I already have Miren as a sac outlet however; though a tad mana intensive, it is tutorable. My build doesn't run a lot of token production now that I've cut Vitu-Ghazi and Rhys will probably be following suit.
Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer in my testing haven't been super amazing unless someone is mana ramping like crazy. This deck doesn't miss many land drops and it runs a good deal of mana ramp itself. Oracle of Mul Daya though is probably a card I want to try to use in one of my flex slots. He has great synergy with library manipulation, deck shuffling, and especially Scroll Rack. 2 power with Reveillark is also a nice bonus.
Other cards I'm working in the flex slots include Academy Rector, Brooding Saurian (savage tech against theft, and helps to make friends at the table by letting them get their jacked stuff back), and some other card I can't remember at the moment. OoMD could be the next to be substituted.
urdjur brought up the idea of Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero to tutor for Skyshroud Poacher who could then tutor for Elves. This gives you access to a Rebel and an Elf toolbox. While it sounds cool in practice, it's also painfully slow to set up. Sisay, Sivvi, and Poacher all have summoning sickness, and the chain becomes pretty lethargic unless you have something like Thousand-Year Elixir or Lightning Greaves to speed things up. Even so, I personally don't think it's worth it to go Lin Sivvi and Skyshroud Poacher. If you already have an active Sisay, you have access to the vast majority of powerful cards in your deck to begin with. Going out of your way to set up another toolbox isn't exactly my cup of tea when I can just tutor up mana ramp, bombs, etc. with one card.
As for Survivaling into Lark/Karmic Guide/Saffi/Mirror Entity/Yosei and other brutal combos like Crovax/Kamahl (<3 that combo so much), I just simply try not to actively assemble them in-game unless the table is going to be cutthroat. What's good about a ton of these cards is that they function very well outside of their combos. Cards like Reveillark, Mirror Entity, and Kamahl are excellent standalone cards and add to the general threat density of the deck. If I do manage to draw into Survival and I don't want to combo off, I like to just put Genesis into my graveyard with other random creatures and start generating a huge amount of card advantage. If Survival itself does attract hate the moment I cast it though, I might reconsider taking it out if it gets the ire of the table. I haven't had this happen to me fortunately, but it might be because I like to use cards responsibly and try not to become too big of a target.
The only time I would want to use an infinite combo in multiplayer (screw MWS... a lot of those bastards can be blanked of their lands with Crovax/Kamahl or skip Graham's Number untap steps with Yosei for all I care) is if someone on the table is going to/doing something really ridiculous and I need to do something ridiculous right back to defend myself. I like viewing infinite combos as last-resort "panic buttons" if you will, but that's my philosophy. As long as someone isn't making a habit of trying to accomplish the same boring strategy to kill everyone in one fell swoop again and again, I think many people will tolerate infinite combos like this to an extent. At least, I know I would.
Ultimately though, Sisay gives you some of the best flexibility an EDH deck can offer. You as the player make the choices to decide if you want to play as casual or competitive as you like. There is an enormous amount of interchangability for substituting whatever cards you see fit.
Wow, that was a lot more than what I thought I'd type
Thanks for the detailed comments. Just a quick question: Don't people hate on Lin Sivi because her abilities are so strong? i would imagine that she'll bite the bullet real quick without Lightning Greaves/Privileged Position. Or do you play Lin Sivvi when the coast is clear, when people have run out of removal?
Private Mod Note
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I like designing decks and I am primarily a control player. Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
Thanks for the detailed comments. Just a quick question: Don't people hate on Lin Sivi because her abilities are so strong? i would imagine that she'll bite the bullet real quick without Lightning Greaves/Privileged Position. Or do you play Lin Sivvi when the coast is clear, when people have run out of removal?
I don't play Lin-Sivvi, but if you do and you want to protect her outside of Greaves/Privileged Position, try Mistveil Plains. Put Lin-Sivvi on the bottom of your library and retutor her with Sisay. You only need one other white permanent for this to fulfill Mistveil Plains's pre-requisite, but it's not too hard to do.
It also works great with any other legendary card for winning attrition wars, and for recurring Yosei and Mindslaver.
Cards that don't seem worth it (Based off the list in the first post) survival of the fittest doesn't seem very useful in here; Sisay is very good tutoring as is, and this deck isn't quite built for handling a survival-recusion engine... mirri's guile also doesn't seem that useful, it's at best a watered down top, but it can't protect itself, which hinders it's usefulness
One thing worth remembering: Sisay can get any legendary permanent, including lands or artifacts or enchantments, so you can run a very, VERY vast toolbox.
Survival of the Fittest sets up the Reveillark kill engine. It basically can win the game by itself. Since the goal is to be using Sisay every turn Mirri's Guile gets a boost since you are shuffling your library every turn.
Mirri's Guile probably has more flavor than Sensei's Top since Mirri's a legend Both are solid cards although I dislike Top more simply because I think Top makes you an unconfident player. A good player does not need to Top in every action so Guile is sufficient enough to warrant a flavorful inclusion in this deck. Not to mention Top is mana intensive and this deck wants to spend its mana playing out the tutored legends instead of topping.
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I like designing decks and I am primarily a control player. Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
Cards that don't seem worth it (Based off the list in the first post)survival of the fittest doesn't seem very useful in here; Sisay is very good tutoring as is, and this deck isn't quite built for handling a survival-recusion engine...
I don't care what you are playing, any deck that can support green should be running Survival of the Fittest, especially when it, by itself i might add, is capable of setting up an entire (gamewinning) combo. Combo aside it turns dead draw creatures into relevant threats. Toss Genesis in the mix and you can cycle through the creatures in your deck at will. How is Survival ever not useful? Just because he can rely on Sisay for some tutoring does not mean survival does not have merit. Sisay, while incredibly good at what she does, is limited to legendary permanents. Survival is not. Nor can you assume that Sisay will be readily available at all times, so why not have a second tutoring engine as a back up if nothing else?
Not exactly the biggest fan of it in my build, since Crovax and Tosimir Wolfblood not only pump my guys to begin with, but they pump non-legendary creatures too. It's a plausible card to run though if you desire more creature pump and focus on more legendary creatures though.
Giving my opponents cards isn't a good idea. This isn't a group hug style deck. You're better off with a better utility land (i.e. Dust Bowl) or another SC-Forest for Rofellos.
AWFUL card, even in Captain Sisay. Comes into play tapped, produces only colorless mana, costs life to tap for mana, and the mana can only be spent on legendary cards.
Sisay can get any legendary permanent, including lands or artifacts or enchantments, so you can run a very, VERY vast toolbox.
Right, which is why I have a good deal of noncreature legendary permanents to begin with (Cradle, Kor Haven, Jitte, Slaver). While it's fun to play with a gigantic toolbox of legends, I also want to make the deck not heavily reliant on Sisay to function.
Survival of the Fittest isn't there for a recursion engine, although, dropping something you don't need to get a Genesis and then dropping it to get what you need is a good play. It's in there for situational grabs. It gives you more tools in your box.
I think we can all agree that Survival does so many amazing things all at once. It gives you full access to all your creatures, it can provide a recursion engine for ridiculous card advantage, and it singlehandedly sets up the Reveillark combo. It's why it's one of the best cards in the format. Just remember to play nice when using it unless you have no other choice but to make your opponent's skip a number of untap steps equal to Graham's Number :]
I'm also working on getting Oblation into the deck for a way to punish general-reliant decks in addition to being able to temporarily get rid of some permanent in an emergency. It's also pretty good stuff that he passes the Teeg test.
I know it may seem a little underwhelming, but have you ever considered Lieutenant Kirtar? With Reveillark, he can serve as a tough defense to go through.
Edit: Also, ever considered Predator, Flagship? Tutorable, and can get rid of annoying Dragon generals and flying dorks.
I know it may seem a little underwhelming, but have you ever considered Lieutenant Kirtar? With Reveillark, he can serve as a tough defense to go through.
Edit: Also, ever considered Predator, Flagship? Tutorable, and can get rid of annoying Dragon generals and flying dorks.
Kirtar seems cool if you can recur him, but I already have ways to deal with creatures attacking me... usually I'll outmuscle them with bigger creatures or stop them in their tracks with Kor Haven.
Predator, Flagship is a card I can see in Sisay, but I'd rather pay 3 extra more mana to cast and pop a Mindslaver to screw someone (and potentially someone else) over. It's also quite annoying that Predator, Flagship gets blocked by Teeg.
More additions and subtractions.
OUT:
-1 Riftsweeper
-1 Yavimaya Elder
-1 Mirari's Wake
-1 Path to Exile
Riftsweeper was good in theory, not so great in actual play. Thanks, but no thanks.
Yavimaya Elder was very meh. Good card advantage machine, but he's been pretty unneeded in the deck.
Mirari's Wake was a bit tough for me to cut since I love that card a lot, but I wish so ****ing bad it was a legendary enchantment. I've played many many games without drawing it and have had no problems at all. Teeg also blocks it, which is unfortunate.
Path to Exile has been another meh card to me as well. Good spot removal, but I already have Swords/Arrest/Jitte/Kor Haven for dealing with creatures, and I would rather have more ways to deal with generals.
Mindcensor has an absolutely AMAZING ability that ganks Zur and Arcum Dagsson, fetchlands, tutors, you name it, this guy screws them over. It also is Reveillark friendly :).
Talisman is more focused acceleration to the turn 3 Sisay. I am slowly working further and further to this strategy as it works great in 1v1 play, and it also does help to get out front in a multiplayer match and start tutoring for whatever.
Brooding Saurian has quickly become one of my favorite cards in the format. He's an amazing foil to all the theft cards blue can run, because it really sucks when blue is jacking your stuff. A 4/4 body for 4 mana is nothing to sneeze at either. Also LOLs at Sen Triplets (I just had a guy ragequit on MWS after he tapped out to play them and then I resolve Saurian, he read the card for a good minute after I revealed my hand on his next turn).
Oblation gives me more firepower against generals, and can serve as a last-ditch way to stop other problematic cards. Tucking generals is great stuff, especially when a deck is reliant on him/her.
Currently, I'm working on cutting Rhys next, but I'm not too sure on what to substitute her for. I'm thinking more acceleration of some kind, but I'd like to get input from you guys as well.
Additionally, I haven't been too impressed with Patron of the Orochi. It just seems like a win-more card to me. I know you run the card in your Sisay deck Khymera, so I'd like to ask how well he does for you. I'm thinking on cutting Patron for Arashi, the Sky Asunder. I have no problem dealing with creatures on the ground, but I'd like to have a nice way to clear out flyers outside of spot removal or Kor Haven. Uncounterable Hurricanes that can be tutored are pretty nice, and it would help against Zur.
I agree with your 4 cuts. I'm not certain about your additions, but they're better than what you had before.
I like Oblation. The drawback is harsh, but versatile removal is very nice to have.
Talisman of Unity is fine, but I prefer Rampant Growth clones or mana dorks over mana artifacts. Other accelerators have strong synergy with Rofellos or Gaea's Cradle, respectively, whereas mana artifacts do not, and actually have negative synergy with Kataki.
I've always had terrible luck with Aven Mindcensor...my opponents always seem to find what they need in the top 4 cards. Mindcensor is no Mindlock Orb. That said, it's a perfectly good card, if a little random here. It has no real synergy with any other card in the deck.
Brooding Saurian is something I tried and didn't like. In theory, it's the best answer to opponents stealing your stuff. In practice, I was never able to find or resolve him in the games where he would have been useful, and I always drew him in games where he was irrelevant. A vanilla 4-mana 4/4 is utterly worthless in EDH, and that's what this guy is most of the time. I would love to run a card like this, but Brooding Saurian is just so 1-dimensional. I'm not convinced that a slight advantage in a small percentage of matchups is worth a dead card in all the other matchups.
As for Patron of the Orochi, it's pretty good, but not vital. Most often, I tutor for it when I have Lightning Greaves or Thousand-Year Elixir out, and at least 8 mana available from elves and forests. In this situation, playing and using Patron of the Orochi is a pure gain, and frequently results in lots of extra mana. This situation occurs frequently enough that I'm happy with the Patron. It is true that the deck would probably be fine without him in any situation though, so I should probably look into replacing him.
Arashi is great if you feel that you need defense against flyers. I really don't, so I haven't bothered. This is another card that's solid in some matchups, but is just dead in others. Even in the matchups where it's solid though, I've never felt a need for Arashi, so I think it's probably not worth the slot.
Well I guess it's just me when I use Mindcensor. Shutting off search effects to just the top 4 cards is really good in a 99-card format. I'll definately take my chances of my opponent not finding a relevant card in the top 4 of their massive deck.
Mindcensor doesn't do anything to actually help the deck, but he's just an amazing standalone card in this format. People search their libraries a LOT in EDH, especially when two A-tier generals (Zur, Arcum Dagsson) are all about searching their library to do their business.
Brooding Saurian is one of those cards that I like to have against the ubiquitous blue decks I run into, especially on MWS. I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like virtually all blue decks run a good deal of theft spells in their deck. It's especially not fun when Sisay gets stolen and they use her to get Tolarian Academy, Memnarch, Mindslaver... ugh.
Good call on using a card like Rampant Growth over Talisman due to the numerous synergies involved. I went and replaced the Talsiman for a Rampant Growth.
I like how this deck is involving and how Sisay can grab any answer at any time. Note that you need ample answers against Pithing Needle and I'm not sure how many disenchant effects is best against that.
I'm not sure how good Tolsimir Wolfblood is in the deck. I've been playing with him in Rhys for the longest time but he ended up being just a creature pump. You don't seem to run enough creatures to justify it (as compared to Rhys). I feel that something to consider is to play Land Tax since your basic Forest count is pretty high now, and play Legendary permanents that benefit from discarding cards (Land Tax has great synergy with this). For example legends like Mageta or Jolrael, Empress of Beasts (which is somewhat like rude awakening in this deck).
I have a question in general: Do you ever feel the need for Wrath of God effects in the deck? If so, either Mageta or Myojin of Cleansing Fire would be useful cards. How's That Which Was Taken? It's a pretty hilarious card but might be win-more overall. It is one of those EDH cards that's a huge bomb if it's out in play. Resets Myojins too (that's definitely win-more).
I'd definitely recommend playing Path to Exile to up the cheap creature removal against troublesome generals to time walk 2 turns and try to win before they come online again. As much as Sensei's Divining Top is a great card, I prefer Scroll Rack in this deck. If you include Land Tax in the deck, this because a powerful engine of card advantage. Not to mention that it already has quite the synergy with your general as well.
+1 on the Aven Mincensor. It is golden in competitive EDH play.
Sorry for having terse comments in some areas, but I have class in like 10 minutes.
I don't run volumes of creatures like tokens in a Rhys build, but I do play with a lot of creatures, especially when I can keep tutoring them up with Sisay. Tolsimir Wolfblood is a pretty good pump spell since it also helps to protect Rofellos from dying when Crovax is out, in addition to all my other non-white x/1s. It's also nice that creatures such as Sisay, Teeg, Saffi, Knight of the Reliquary, and Harmonic Sliver get double pumped. The of course you have Voja, a solid token that keeps coming back when he dies, and has good synergy with cards such as Aura Shards and Mirror Entity/Kamahl as being an extra body for lethal combat steps. Khymera pointed out that Tolsimir Wolfblood accomplishes a few important things (keeping non-white x/1s alive with Crovax) and has the good bonus of adding to the overall aggressive gameplan of the deck when you want to go aggro.
As for Wrath effects, I might have to go back to a singleton Myojin of Cleansing Fire. I've been playing some more on MWS (since it's fast and you get ok games for the most part) and Uril the Miststalker is a big problem unless you have a global sweeper of some kind. Kor Haven does jack-diddly against Uril, and he usually is a juggernaut in combat that is ridiclously hard to fully stop. I managed to win only a game without any Wrath effects by stabilizing with an Aura Shards out and munching away at his enchantments with Stonecloaker bouncing himself. I was like only a few more points away from dying to general damage, but since I was able to keep Uril in check, I took control of the game and nuked his lands with Crovax/Kamahl for a concession.
The Wrath effects probably would only really be needed against Uril and a few other handful of creatures, because otherwise the deck is pretty solid in combat with powerful creatures. That's one of the good things about playing G/W; there's never any real shortcoming of good, efficient creatures in combat and for utility purposes. It would be great to have an out to Voltron generals though, and I think it might be worth it for a slot.
TWWT is definately a win-more card. Gaddock Teeg also blocks it; another strike against it. If you want to grab TWWT, you're better off just getting Mindslaver instead.
As SC noted, Tolsimir Wolfblood is mostly there to make sure Rofellos and Crovax play nicely together. They're both vital cards in this deck, and sometimes you need to have them both in play. I run a lot of other mana elves too, so Tolsimir is protecting even more than just Rofellos from Crovax. Tolsimir isn't amazing, but he does his job, and he's better than the alternatives: Day of Destiny is blocked by Teeg (and doesn't save other mana elves), Kongming, "Sleeping Dragon" costs double white, and Kaysa is just worse than Tolsimir. When I didn't play a creature pumper, I did lose some games due to Crovax killing Rofellos, or not being able to profitably play Crovax. This slot is worthwhile.
Land Tax is no good in my deck...I would be lucky to get 1 trigger out of it. I'm running 7 Rampant Growth effects, and I tend to quickly amass more lands than my opponent every game. Also, even if I could get it to trigger consistently, the raw card advantage it provides just isn't as valuable in this deck as it would be in any other. I rarely need an engine like Land Tax/Scroll Rack, because Sisay allows me to always have the cards I need. I can easily utilize all my mana every turn and make great plays without any additional draws. Of course, if Sisay is nullified, then this engine might help...but that doesn't happen too often, and in general I would rather run cards that ensure I can use Sisay over cards that are only good when I can't use her. Especially over a 2-card combo, where each card is of minimal use in a typical gamestate.
Sensei's Divining Top is a fine card, but I don't use it, for a similar reason. Even though this deck can make the most of the card filtering it provides, that card filtering is much less important in this deck than in others (especially because SDT is only at it's best if you're shuffling every turn, and that usually means Sisay is doing her thing. If Sisay is doing her thing, this effect is less important). That's not to say that the effect is useless: I do run both Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile, both of which serve the same purpose, but are much better cards in this deck. You don't need multiples of this type of card: more than one is totally redundant. SDT is comparatively quite bad, because it's the only one that costs mana each turn (this deck is very mana hungry...I mean it when I say I can effectively use EVERY mana, every turn). It also has dissynergy with Kataki, to the extent that it's not even worth playing it with Kataki down. I used to play with SDT, and I experienced numerous situations where SDT was a dead card, probably something like 50% of the time I drew it. That's just not good enough, and I haven't missed it at all since cutting it.
I've never felt a need for wrath effects in this deck. I used to run Oblivion Stone, but found I never wanted to activate it, and other wraths are even worse here. I make it my business to have the better board position. I play TONS of creatures. I try very hard to prevent Wraths, and Gaddock Teeg almost always does that effectively. Hokori and Saffi are also good for this. I literally cannot remember a situation where I've ever wanted to wrath the board, because my board position has always been more stuff than I want to lose. The only situations where my board isn't fantastic is just after someone has managed to resolve a wrath...and if that happened, why would I need to do it again? I played with the white Myojin for a little bit, and never tutored for him. He was always dead when I drew him. Partly it's because I have no desire to blow up Sisay, Rofellos, Hokori and all the other creatures who are inevitably on the board, and partly because triple white mana is a pain to achieve in my deck, especially with Hokori down, as he usually is. Honestly, in the only situations I can even imagine wanting a wrath, especially a 9 mana one, I'm so, so far behind where I need to be that I've effectively lost that game already.
Path to Exile is a bit weak as removal for this deck. Because of the land search, it actually only buys you 1 extra turn against generals, which usually isn't enough to make a difference. Also, mana denial is a major theme in this deck, and is honestly how I win most of my games. Anything that works against that is probably not a great inclusion. My spot removal count feels about right to me, and if I felt I needed more I would run Arrest or Oblation over Path to Exile. They're both much better against generals too.
I wouldn't worry overly much about Uril. For one thing, he's just not that popular, and does poorly against the multitude of blue decks. He's not a target I would set my sights on. Also, in the few games I have played against Uril, he hasn't been a problem, because Sisay is faster. It depends on the situation of course, but I usually land Hokori before Uril can be played, and just delay him long enough to win. Factoring in my disruption, I can just win before Uril manages to get all suited up.
The deck is getting faster and faster. I'm continuing to trim more redundant cards that I've really not needed and replacing them with superior substitutes.
That being said, here's the latest amount of changes:
Gone
-1 Patron of the Orochi
-1 Regrowth
-1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
-1 Sungrass Prairie
New stuff
+1 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
+1 Congregation at Dawn
+1 Three Visits
+1 Snow-Covered Forest
I already talked about axing Patron for Arashi, so I'll cover the other new changes.
Regrowth has been one of those redundant cards for me. I've drawn it in games, but it just felt like I never actually needed it. I already have a great deal of recursion at my disposal integrated into the deck, and if I need a Regrowth, I can just tutor for Eternal Witness with a tutor card as well as abusing her body (lol that sounds so wrong) with reanimation such as with Lark and Genesis.
Azusa has been virtually a win-more card all the time. If you have a Dust Bowl/Strip Mine lock active, there's no need to do it three times in one sitting. Once per turn is usually enough to force a concession.
Sungrass Prarie is a safe cut for me. I don't need the extra mana fixing so I just replace it with another SC-Forest for Rofellos.
Congregation at Dawn is a card that I would love to test out, and it looks like a great standalone card. It's Teeg-friendly, and it's basically Worldly Tutor #2 on steroids. This can get me basically all the needed creatures I need at a given point in time. Now it's just a matter of getting to play with it.
Three Visits for another Rampant Growth that gets dual lands. Yay for functional reprints, says Nature's Lore.
As for Wrath effects, I think for now the only ones I need are Arashi (for flyers) and Crovax (for weenies). This deck has a great mid to end-game with many beefy creatures that are tough to take down in combat, greatly eliminating the need for many other sweeper cards. Just a note about Crovax; he continues to be hilariously awesome in this format. He singlehandedly blanks a huge amount of cards and frail generals, foils the vast majority of token strategies, and he is virtually unkillable. Additionally, Mindslaver can also act as a Wrath effect against certain decks, especially when they have sacrifice engines.
Yes. Any creature that has a relevant comes into play or leaves play ability will suffice for the 5th combo piece.
I've played 4 2/3 matches so far, against competitive decks, and won all 8 games handily. Here's a rough summary of what happened each game. I didn't start taking detailed notes until my 3rd game, so some of the logs are vague, and one I don't remember details on. I have notes from the best games though.
Those are the only games I've had time to play in the last couple days, and it's obviously not a large sample size, but I think it gives a pretty decent indication of how the deck plays. It's easy to say, oh wow, you got were so lucky to draw that card in that game, but that's the way this game is. I don't think one can argue that I was consistently lucky in these games--I played second both games against Sharuum and Arcum, dealt with turn 1 Sol Ring/Mana Crypt, turn 3 Memnarch, had to mulligan to 4 cards once...and I still won them all. I probably outplayed a couple of my opponents, but again, that's how this game is.
It's true that I never had to deal with Sisay getting killed or stolen, but I think I can credit a lot of that to timely use of Teeg and Kataki/Hokori. I have played several games in the past where I couldn't get Sisay to stick,
Note how consistent the deck is with
I think the most important thing to note is that in all of these games, I had the game won or pretty much locked up by about turn 5, or 6 at the latest. I always had Sisay by turn 2 or 3 due to my huge number of 1-2 mana accelerants, and this was instrumental to my success. Faster Sisay means faster Teeg/Kataki, and resolving those early is hugely important. Note how consistent the deck is with an early Sisay--against any kind of slowish deck I can lead with Teeg, and I can shut down artifacts with Kataki/Glissa. Hokori makes an appearance whenever an opponent taps out, and usually spells game-over when he does. When an opponent is locked down like that, you don't even need a specific win condition--anything works. Many of my opponents just concede once their mana is locked down. I do think it's interesting that I didn't actually win via a combo once (unless you count Myojin + Iona)--just the disruptive elements of the deck tend to be sufficient to secure victory. I generally end up winning with combos only when things go wrong and the game goes long, which didn't happen in any of these games.
Because I'm winning/dominating the game, so quickly, mana is TIGHT, even with access to Rofellos and Gaea's Cradle. I was tapping out every turn, and I needed all that mana.
This is why I can't easily justify playing slow or inefficient cards that do not directly contribute to me winning the game, such as Stonecloaker. Despite all the utility, it's rarely usable because the cost is too much for the effect, and because I can never afford to keep mana open. In these 8 games I played, Stonecloaker would have been decent in only one of them (the 2nd game against Sharuum, if hadn't quit). The rest of the time, it would have been a dead card. Part of the reason I feel my build is so successful is because I try hard to avoid situational cards--almost every card in my deck is good at any time, against any deck. The exceptions to this rule, like Kataki and Iona, earn their slots by being tremendously good against certain decks.
Khymera, I read your last post, and I think you've found probably the best way to play Sisay in 1v1. You're right, accelerating Sisay out sooner than later is better, since she doesn't exactly change being a frail 2/2 anyway. This also greatly helps out that you only need to worry about one person disrupting you instead of two to five at a table.
I think however, that a lot of the slightly slower utility cards that don't get Sisay out faster could still be played without too many problems in multiplayer, where card quality matters a lot more. That's just me though, but I can live with chopping off some of the utilities like Elder/Dryad/Jens for their faster counterparts.
Myojin of Life's Web has been great like you've said. At the very worst, he's an 8/8 that's indestructible, which is definately an upgrade over the white Myojin's 4/6 body. I took out the white Myojin for him, so now I can work more on overpowering my opponent through brute force with Kamahl and the core disruption package (Teeg/Kataki/Hokori) to keep my opponent down.
More later. I really should be making myself dinner since I'm so ****ing starving.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
OUT:
-1 Snow-Covered Plains
-1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
-1 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
-1 Enlisted Wurm
-1 Expedition Map
-1 Krosan Grip
-1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
IN:
+2 Snow-Covered Forest
+1 Dust Bowl
+1 Tolsimir Wolfblood
+1 Nature's Lore
+1 Harmonic Sliver
+1 Myojin of Life's Web
Rhys the Redeemed looks to be the next to leave along with Riftsweeper.
No, I'm pretty sure it was just luck.
I personally think that Martyr's Cause should be in here. From playing Rhys, this card single handedly stops all StP/Path/Treachery effects and making all your creatures immune to removal (not really but you can recur them all back with Genesis).
I'm a fan of Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer over the green land tutors. Would Oracle of Mul Daya be any good in this deck?
I like how Sisay can consistently tutor out Gaea's Cradle. Beautiful. I had an idea with Sisay before and it involved tutoring for Lin-sivi which fetches a couple of good rebel cards (bound in silence, crib swap, deathtouching rebels, elven poacher which then tutors and puts into play any elves). Not sure if this is another route but requires more dedicated space.
Don't you have problem facing hate when you land Survival/dangerous item that attracts hate from multiplayer groups?
Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
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Martyr's Cause seems like an interesting idea, and he is Gaddock Teeg-friendly which is a big plus. I already have Miren as a sac outlet however; though a tad mana intensive, it is tutorable. My build doesn't run a lot of token production now that I've cut Vitu-Ghazi and Rhys will probably be following suit.
Land Tax and Weathered Wayfarer in my testing haven't been super amazing unless someone is mana ramping like crazy. This deck doesn't miss many land drops and it runs a good deal of mana ramp itself. Oracle of Mul Daya though is probably a card I want to try to use in one of my flex slots. He has great synergy with library manipulation, deck shuffling, and especially Scroll Rack. 2 power with Reveillark is also a nice bonus.
Other cards I'm working in the flex slots include Academy Rector, Brooding Saurian (savage tech against theft, and helps to make friends at the table by letting them get their jacked stuff back), and some other card I can't remember at the moment. OoMD could be the next to be substituted.
urdjur brought up the idea of Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero to tutor for Skyshroud Poacher who could then tutor for Elves. This gives you access to a Rebel and an Elf toolbox. While it sounds cool in practice, it's also painfully slow to set up. Sisay, Sivvi, and Poacher all have summoning sickness, and the chain becomes pretty lethargic unless you have something like Thousand-Year Elixir or Lightning Greaves to speed things up. Even so, I personally don't think it's worth it to go Lin Sivvi and Skyshroud Poacher. If you already have an active Sisay, you have access to the vast majority of powerful cards in your deck to begin with. Going out of your way to set up another toolbox isn't exactly my cup of tea when I can just tutor up mana ramp, bombs, etc. with one card.
As for Survivaling into Lark/Karmic Guide/Saffi/Mirror Entity/Yosei and other brutal combos like Crovax/Kamahl (<3 that combo so much), I just simply try not to actively assemble them in-game unless the table is going to be cutthroat. What's good about a ton of these cards is that they function very well outside of their combos. Cards like Reveillark, Mirror Entity, and Kamahl are excellent standalone cards and add to the general threat density of the deck. If I do manage to draw into Survival and I don't want to combo off, I like to just put Genesis into my graveyard with other random creatures and start generating a huge amount of card advantage. If Survival itself does attract hate the moment I cast it though, I might reconsider taking it out if it gets the ire of the table. I haven't had this happen to me fortunately, but it might be because I like to use cards responsibly and try not to become too big of a target.
The only time I would want to use an infinite combo in multiplayer (screw MWS... a lot of those bastards can be blanked of their lands with Crovax/Kamahl or skip Graham's Number untap steps with Yosei for all I care) is if someone on the table is going to/doing something really ridiculous and I need to do something ridiculous right back to defend myself. I like viewing infinite combos as last-resort "panic buttons" if you will, but that's my philosophy. As long as someone isn't making a habit of trying to accomplish the same boring strategy to kill everyone in one fell swoop again and again, I think many people will tolerate infinite combos like this to an extent. At least, I know I would.
Ultimately though, Sisay gives you some of the best flexibility an EDH deck can offer. You as the player make the choices to decide if you want to play as casual or competitive as you like. There is an enormous amount of interchangability for substituting whatever cards you see fit.
Wow, that was a lot more than what I thought I'd type
Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8172551#post8172551
I don't play Lin-Sivvi, but if you do and you want to protect her outside of Greaves/Privileged Position, try Mistveil Plains. Put Lin-Sivvi on the bottom of your library and retutor her with Sisay. You only need one other white permanent for this to fulfill Mistveil Plains's pre-requisite, but it's not too hard to do.
It also works great with any other legendary card for winning attrition wars, and for recurring Yosei and Mindslaver.
Day of Destiny
mikokoro, center of the sea
okina, temple to the grandfathers
Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper
Cards that don't seem worth it (Based off the list in the first post)
survival of the fittest doesn't seem very useful in here; Sisay is very good tutoring as is, and this deck isn't quite built for handling a survival-recusion engine...
mirri's guile also doesn't seem that useful, it's at best a watered down top, but it can't protect itself, which hinders it's usefulness
One thing worth remembering: Sisay can get any legendary permanent, including lands or artifacts or enchantments, so you can run a very, VERY vast toolbox.
Mirri's Guile probably has more flavor than Sensei's Top since Mirri's a legend Both are solid cards although I dislike Top more simply because I think Top makes you an unconfident player. A good player does not need to Top in every action so Guile is sufficient enough to warrant a flavorful inclusion in this deck. Not to mention Top is mana intensive and this deck wants to spend its mana playing out the tutored legends instead of topping.
Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
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I don't care what you are playing, any deck that can support green should be running Survival of the Fittest, especially when it, by itself i might add, is capable of setting up an entire (gamewinning) combo. Combo aside it turns dead draw creatures into relevant threats. Toss Genesis in the mix and you can cycle through the creatures in your deck at will. How is Survival ever not useful? Just because he can rely on Sisay for some tutoring does not mean survival does not have merit. Sisay, while incredibly good at what she does, is limited to legendary permanents. Survival is not. Nor can you assume that Sisay will be readily available at all times, so why not have a second tutoring engine as a back up if nothing else?
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Not exactly the biggest fan of it in my build, since Crovax and Tosimir Wolfblood not only pump my guys to begin with, but they pump non-legendary creatures too. It's a plausible card to run though if you desire more creature pump and focus on more legendary creatures though.
Giving my opponents cards isn't a good idea. This isn't a group hug style deck. You're better off with a better utility land (i.e. Dust Bowl) or another SC-Forest for Rofellos.
In my testing, Okina's ability has not been relevant at all. I replaced Okina with another SC-Forest for Rofellos.
AWFUL card, even in Captain Sisay. Comes into play tapped, produces only colorless mana, costs life to tap for mana, and the mana can only be spent on legendary cards.
Right, which is why I have a good deal of noncreature legendary permanents to begin with (Cradle, Kor Haven, Jitte, Slaver). While it's fun to play with a gigantic toolbox of legends, I also want to make the deck not heavily reliant on Sisay to function.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I'm also working on getting Oblation into the deck for a way to punish general-reliant decks in addition to being able to temporarily get rid of some permanent in an emergency. It's also pretty good stuff that he passes the Teeg test.
Edit: Also, ever considered Predator, Flagship? Tutorable, and can get rid of annoying Dragon generals and flying dorks.
Kirtar seems cool if you can recur him, but I already have ways to deal with creatures attacking me... usually I'll outmuscle them with bigger creatures or stop them in their tracks with Kor Haven.
Predator, Flagship is a card I can see in Sisay, but I'd rather pay 3 extra more mana to cast and pop a Mindslaver to screw someone (and potentially someone else) over. It's also quite annoying that Predator, Flagship gets blocked by Teeg.
More additions and subtractions.
OUT:
-1 Riftsweeper
-1 Yavimaya Elder
-1 Mirari's Wake
-1 Path to Exile
Riftsweeper was good in theory, not so great in actual play. Thanks, but no thanks.
Yavimaya Elder was very meh. Good card advantage machine, but he's been pretty unneeded in the deck.
Mirari's Wake was a bit tough for me to cut since I love that card a lot, but I wish so ****ing bad it was a legendary enchantment. I've played many many games without drawing it and have had no problems at all. Teeg also blocks it, which is unfortunate.
Path to Exile has been another meh card to me as well. Good spot removal, but I already have Swords/Arrest/Jitte/Kor Haven for dealing with creatures, and I would rather have more ways to deal with generals.
IN:
+1 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Talisman of Unity
+1 Brooding Saurian
+1 Oblation
Mindcensor has an absolutely AMAZING ability that ganks Zur and Arcum Dagsson, fetchlands, tutors, you name it, this guy screws them over. It also is Reveillark friendly :).
Talisman is more focused acceleration to the turn 3 Sisay. I am slowly working further and further to this strategy as it works great in 1v1 play, and it also does help to get out front in a multiplayer match and start tutoring for whatever.
Brooding Saurian has quickly become one of my favorite cards in the format. He's an amazing foil to all the theft cards blue can run, because it really sucks when blue is jacking your stuff. A 4/4 body for 4 mana is nothing to sneeze at either. Also LOLs at Sen Triplets (I just had a guy ragequit on MWS after he tapped out to play them and then I resolve Saurian, he read the card for a good minute after I revealed my hand on his next turn).
Oblation gives me more firepower against generals, and can serve as a last-ditch way to stop other problematic cards. Tucking generals is great stuff, especially when a deck is reliant on him/her.
Currently, I'm working on cutting Rhys next, but I'm not too sure on what to substitute her for. I'm thinking more acceleration of some kind, but I'd like to get input from you guys as well.
Additionally, I haven't been too impressed with Patron of the Orochi. It just seems like a win-more card to me. I know you run the card in your Sisay deck Khymera, so I'd like to ask how well he does for you. I'm thinking on cutting Patron for Arashi, the Sky Asunder. I have no problem dealing with creatures on the ground, but I'd like to have a nice way to clear out flyers outside of spot removal or Kor Haven. Uncounterable Hurricanes that can be tutored are pretty nice, and it would help against Zur.
I like Oblation. The drawback is harsh, but versatile removal is very nice to have.
Talisman of Unity is fine, but I prefer Rampant Growth clones or mana dorks over mana artifacts. Other accelerators have strong synergy with Rofellos or Gaea's Cradle, respectively, whereas mana artifacts do not, and actually have negative synergy with Kataki.
I've always had terrible luck with Aven Mindcensor...my opponents always seem to find what they need in the top 4 cards. Mindcensor is no Mindlock Orb. That said, it's a perfectly good card, if a little random here. It has no real synergy with any other card in the deck.
Brooding Saurian is something I tried and didn't like. In theory, it's the best answer to opponents stealing your stuff. In practice, I was never able to find or resolve him in the games where he would have been useful, and I always drew him in games where he was irrelevant. A vanilla 4-mana 4/4 is utterly worthless in EDH, and that's what this guy is most of the time. I would love to run a card like this, but Brooding Saurian is just so 1-dimensional. I'm not convinced that a slight advantage in a small percentage of matchups is worth a dead card in all the other matchups.
As for Patron of the Orochi, it's pretty good, but not vital. Most often, I tutor for it when I have Lightning Greaves or Thousand-Year Elixir out, and at least 8 mana available from elves and forests. In this situation, playing and using Patron of the Orochi is a pure gain, and frequently results in lots of extra mana. This situation occurs frequently enough that I'm happy with the Patron. It is true that the deck would probably be fine without him in any situation though, so I should probably look into replacing him.
Arashi is great if you feel that you need defense against flyers. I really don't, so I haven't bothered. This is another card that's solid in some matchups, but is just dead in others. Even in the matchups where it's solid though, I've never felt a need for Arashi, so I think it's probably not worth the slot.
Mindcensor doesn't do anything to actually help the deck, but he's just an amazing standalone card in this format. People search their libraries a LOT in EDH, especially when two A-tier generals (Zur, Arcum Dagsson) are all about searching their library to do their business.
Brooding Saurian is one of those cards that I like to have against the ubiquitous blue decks I run into, especially on MWS. I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like virtually all blue decks run a good deal of theft spells in their deck. It's especially not fun when Sisay gets stolen and they use her to get Tolarian Academy, Memnarch, Mindslaver... ugh.
Good call on using a card like Rampant Growth over Talisman due to the numerous synergies involved. I went and replaced the Talsiman for a Rampant Growth.
I'm not sure how good Tolsimir Wolfblood is in the deck. I've been playing with him in Rhys for the longest time but he ended up being just a creature pump. You don't seem to run enough creatures to justify it (as compared to Rhys). I feel that something to consider is to play Land Tax since your basic Forest count is pretty high now, and play Legendary permanents that benefit from discarding cards (Land Tax has great synergy with this). For example legends like Mageta or Jolrael, Empress of Beasts (which is somewhat like rude awakening in this deck).
I have a question in general: Do you ever feel the need for Wrath of God effects in the deck? If so, either Mageta or Myojin of Cleansing Fire would be useful cards. How's That Which Was Taken? It's a pretty hilarious card but might be win-more overall. It is one of those EDH cards that's a huge bomb if it's out in play. Resets Myojins too (that's definitely win-more).
I'd definitely recommend playing Path to Exile to up the cheap creature removal against troublesome generals to time walk 2 turns and try to win before they come online again. As much as Sensei's Divining Top is a great card, I prefer Scroll Rack in this deck. If you include Land Tax in the deck, this because a powerful engine of card advantage. Not to mention that it already has quite the synergy with your general as well.
+1 on the Aven Mincensor. It is golden in competitive EDH play.
Using Drain to fight Workshops is like using Exclude to fight Dark Confidant.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=8172551#post8172551
I don't run volumes of creatures like tokens in a Rhys build, but I do play with a lot of creatures, especially when I can keep tutoring them up with Sisay. Tolsimir Wolfblood is a pretty good pump spell since it also helps to protect Rofellos from dying when Crovax is out, in addition to all my other non-white x/1s. It's also nice that creatures such as Sisay, Teeg, Saffi, Knight of the Reliquary, and Harmonic Sliver get double pumped. The of course you have Voja, a solid token that keeps coming back when he dies, and has good synergy with cards such as Aura Shards and Mirror Entity/Kamahl as being an extra body for lethal combat steps. Khymera pointed out that Tolsimir Wolfblood accomplishes a few important things (keeping non-white x/1s alive with Crovax) and has the good bonus of adding to the overall aggressive gameplan of the deck when you want to go aggro.
As for Wrath effects, I might have to go back to a singleton Myojin of Cleansing Fire. I've been playing some more on MWS (since it's fast and you get ok games for the most part) and Uril the Miststalker is a big problem unless you have a global sweeper of some kind. Kor Haven does jack-diddly against Uril, and he usually is a juggernaut in combat that is ridiclously hard to fully stop. I managed to win only a game without any Wrath effects by stabilizing with an Aura Shards out and munching away at his enchantments with Stonecloaker bouncing himself. I was like only a few more points away from dying to general damage, but since I was able to keep Uril in check, I took control of the game and nuked his lands with Crovax/Kamahl for a concession.
The Wrath effects probably would only really be needed against Uril and a few other handful of creatures, because otherwise the deck is pretty solid in combat with powerful creatures. That's one of the good things about playing G/W; there's never any real shortcoming of good, efficient creatures in combat and for utility purposes. It would be great to have an out to Voltron generals though, and I think it might be worth it for a slot.
TWWT is definately a win-more card. Gaddock Teeg also blocks it; another strike against it. If you want to grab TWWT, you're better off just getting Mindslaver instead.
I play with both Scroll Rack and Top.
Land Tax is no good in my deck...I would be lucky to get 1 trigger out of it. I'm running 7 Rampant Growth effects, and I tend to quickly amass more lands than my opponent every game. Also, even if I could get it to trigger consistently, the raw card advantage it provides just isn't as valuable in this deck as it would be in any other. I rarely need an engine like Land Tax/Scroll Rack, because Sisay allows me to always have the cards I need. I can easily utilize all my mana every turn and make great plays without any additional draws. Of course, if Sisay is nullified, then this engine might help...but that doesn't happen too often, and in general I would rather run cards that ensure I can use Sisay over cards that are only good when I can't use her. Especially over a 2-card combo, where each card is of minimal use in a typical gamestate.
Sensei's Divining Top is a fine card, but I don't use it, for a similar reason. Even though this deck can make the most of the card filtering it provides, that card filtering is much less important in this deck than in others (especially because SDT is only at it's best if you're shuffling every turn, and that usually means Sisay is doing her thing. If Sisay is doing her thing, this effect is less important). That's not to say that the effect is useless: I do run both Sylvan Library and Mirri's Guile, both of which serve the same purpose, but are much better cards in this deck. You don't need multiples of this type of card: more than one is totally redundant. SDT is comparatively quite bad, because it's the only one that costs mana each turn (this deck is very mana hungry...I mean it when I say I can effectively use EVERY mana, every turn). It also has dissynergy with Kataki, to the extent that it's not even worth playing it with Kataki down. I used to play with SDT, and I experienced numerous situations where SDT was a dead card, probably something like 50% of the time I drew it. That's just not good enough, and I haven't missed it at all since cutting it.
I've never felt a need for wrath effects in this deck. I used to run Oblivion Stone, but found I never wanted to activate it, and other wraths are even worse here. I make it my business to have the better board position. I play TONS of creatures. I try very hard to prevent Wraths, and Gaddock Teeg almost always does that effectively. Hokori and Saffi are also good for this. I literally cannot remember a situation where I've ever wanted to wrath the board, because my board position has always been more stuff than I want to lose. The only situations where my board isn't fantastic is just after someone has managed to resolve a wrath...and if that happened, why would I need to do it again? I played with the white Myojin for a little bit, and never tutored for him. He was always dead when I drew him. Partly it's because I have no desire to blow up Sisay, Rofellos, Hokori and all the other creatures who are inevitably on the board, and partly because triple white mana is a pain to achieve in my deck, especially with Hokori down, as he usually is. Honestly, in the only situations I can even imagine wanting a wrath, especially a 9 mana one, I'm so, so far behind where I need to be that I've effectively lost that game already.
Path to Exile is a bit weak as removal for this deck. Because of the land search, it actually only buys you 1 extra turn against generals, which usually isn't enough to make a difference. Also, mana denial is a major theme in this deck, and is honestly how I win most of my games. Anything that works against that is probably not a great inclusion. My spot removal count feels about right to me, and if I felt I needed more I would run Arrest or Oblation over Path to Exile. They're both much better against generals too.
I wouldn't worry overly much about Uril. For one thing, he's just not that popular, and does poorly against the multitude of blue decks. He's not a target I would set my sights on. Also, in the few games I have played against Uril, he hasn't been a problem, because Sisay is faster. It depends on the situation of course, but I usually land Hokori before Uril can be played, and just delay him long enough to win. Factoring in my disruption, I can just win before Uril manages to get all suited up.
That being said, here's the latest amount of changes:
Gone
-1 Patron of the Orochi
-1 Regrowth
-1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
-1 Sungrass Prairie
New stuff
+1 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
+1 Congregation at Dawn
+1 Three Visits
+1 Snow-Covered Forest
I already talked about axing Patron for Arashi, so I'll cover the other new changes.
Regrowth has been one of those redundant cards for me. I've drawn it in games, but it just felt like I never actually needed it. I already have a great deal of recursion at my disposal integrated into the deck, and if I need a Regrowth, I can just tutor for Eternal Witness with a tutor card as well as abusing her body (lol that sounds so wrong) with reanimation such as with Lark and Genesis.
Azusa has been virtually a win-more card all the time. If you have a Dust Bowl/Strip Mine lock active, there's no need to do it three times in one sitting. Once per turn is usually enough to force a concession.
Sungrass Prarie is a safe cut for me. I don't need the extra mana fixing so I just replace it with another SC-Forest for Rofellos.
Congregation at Dawn is a card that I would love to test out, and it looks like a great standalone card. It's Teeg-friendly, and it's basically Worldly Tutor #2 on steroids. This can get me basically all the needed creatures I need at a given point in time. Now it's just a matter of getting to play with it.
Three Visits for another Rampant Growth that gets dual lands. Yay for functional reprints, says Nature's Lore.
As for Wrath effects, I think for now the only ones I need are Arashi (for flyers) and Crovax (for weenies). This deck has a great mid to end-game with many beefy creatures that are tough to take down in combat, greatly eliminating the need for many other sweeper cards. Just a note about Crovax; he continues to be hilariously awesome in this format. He singlehandedly blanks a huge amount of cards and frail generals, foils the vast majority of token strategies, and he is virtually unkillable. Additionally, Mindslaver can also act as a Wrath effect against certain decks, especially when they have sacrifice engines.