I am in the process of making this deck as best as I can. Some things I wanted to suggest and this is only because its all i have so maybe you used them at one time...
Now this next part I am still tossing around but I want to know what you think.
A fantastic combo is Energy Field and Wheel of Sun and Moon however, WoSaM is out of course, but Planar Void is not. My question is, is there really a point at which you care if you lose something to the grave? Not sure if this works though as it doesn't seem to be a replacement effect.
I love this deck concept and I am looking forward to create it.
Quest for Ancient Secrets, seems like an amazing tool for this deck. You can shuffle alot of stuff back into the library with it, snatch it again, reuse it. Might give some creedance to use things like Seal of Doom. Granted it might be a bit slow.
Nice list and thanks for all the information. I ran this build in a 1v1 EDH tournament. It was my first time playing EDH, so I was glad to have something straightforward and powerful.
A question though: I often had spot removal in my hand as dead cards when I'd much rather have a counterspell. Why use spot removal at all when counterspells prevent the permanent from coming into play in the first place? And, counterspells stop non-permanents and prevent come-into-play effects.
My suspicion is that there aren't enough low cost hard counters out there, so you filled the remaining slots with spot removal. True?
Here are some alternative counters that I found since I don't have the high cost ones like Force and Mana Drain. They're weaker, but still interesting: Exclude - Opponents will cast a creature eventually. Discombobulate - Expensive, but the Top effect helps. Dismiss Ertai's Meddling - Stall the spell. Rethink - Stops the many high-cost cards in EDH. Rites of Refusal - Flexible; discard enough cards so they can't pay, though discarding hurts.
Some less interesting counters that I found: Deprive - Mana artifacts reduce the need for the bounced land.
Essence Scatter / False Summoning / Remove Soul - They've got to cast creatures eventually. Rewind - Counter, and get ready for another counter.
...being awesome with a violin doesn't mean you're awesome at writing your own songs. And writing good songs doesn't mean you're good enough at playing an instrument or singing to get a contract with a label.
Reflecting Pool: You know, technically, I *CAN* make any color of mana.
Exotic Orchard: Prove it. Do it right now.
Reflecting Pool: Well, not right now. I need some condi....
Exotic Orchard: LIES. GO DIE IN A FIRE.
Reflecting Pool:
As it seems, my play group is me and one other guy who are really good at deck building, and then other people. Normally me and the other guy would just play combo decks and see who could jerk it quicker, which was fun, we could play like 15 games of EDH in like 40 minutes.
Now he has created Edric. It's really scary 1v1 surprisingly enough, because the deck is a bunch of small dorks and edric and 25 different counterspells, he draws insane amounts of cards and extra turn spells and repeat since he draws most of his deck every game. My Damia Combo deck can't get off the ground because he can leave open counter mana every turn and I can't ramp to play my bigger spells. So as it seems I need a deck that can tutor things up relatively quickly.
Also if I can land Zur I was looking at Energy Field, Solitary Confinement, and Propaganda, and Ghostly Prison since it will essentially make his deck mediocre and useless. Though I was looking at the lists I feel like I want to make a hybrid between the 1v1 and the multiplayer list. Because there are definitely merits to both of the lists. Not to mention that Zur blocks every single one of his guys and kills the majority of them also. So I will start working on a list and produce it on the database and help out this forum since it seems to be a good hub for information.
Why play Devour in Shadow when we have Victim of Night? Probably depends on your meta, but assuming you are playing competitively, zombies, vampires and werewolves probably aren't a big problem. I'll be posting my list soon.
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Standard: Esper Spirits-WUB
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Victim of Night is a decent option but I still prefer to not have to worry about the creature type so I still recommend Devour in Shadow which also stops regeneration. However other voltron decks like Uril for example need to be dealt with by an edict effect so I suggest having at least one of the following to tutor for just in case: Diabolic Edict, Chainer's Edict, Geth's Verdict, Cruel Edict, or Tribute to Hunger.
I think Runechanter's Pike is a very solid equipment for Zur even though the focus here is about auras.
Currently the deck has no graveyard hate which may or may not be a problem with the large number of counterspells. Shred Memory, Bojuka Bog, and Nihil Spellbomb are probably our best options for this.
Victim of Night is a decent option but I still prefer to not have to worry about the creature type so I still recommend Devour in Shadow which also stops regeneration. However other voltron decks like Uril for example need to be dealt with by an edict effect so I suggest having at least one of the following to tutor for just in case: Diabolic Edict, Chainer's Edict, Geth's Verdict, Cruel Edict, or Tribute to Hunger.
I think Runechanter's Pike is a very solid equipment for Zur even though the focus here is about auras.
Currently the deck has no graveyard hate which may or may not be a problem with the large number of counterspells. Shred Memory, Bojuka Bog, and Nihil Spellbomb are probably our best options for this.
I don't like equipment in this deck, I feel like the pike is actually a poor choice, I think the deck doesn't need to worry about a fast clock, you should be playing draw go pretty quickly. I feel like cutting sol ring, and coalition relic is wrong. Also in a general sense you should be putting diplomatic immunity on your Zur so the pike can't even equip. It's just better to have more raw card advantage and stop their plans rather than try and kill them in two swings. I'm actually thinking of having curiosity in the deck so I can smack with zur and draw cards off of him. I also think you should find room for Phyrexian Arena, and Necro. Because they go hand in hand with solitary and solidifies your victory.
I also think more counterspells less disruption spells
I don't like equipment in this deck, I feel like the pike is actually a poor choice, I think the deck doesn't need to worry about a fast clock, you should be playing draw go pretty quickly. I feel like cutting sol ring, and coalition relic is wrong. Also in a general sense you should be putting diplomatic immunity on your Zur so the pike can't even equip. It's just better to have more raw card advantage and stop their plans rather than try and kill them in two swings. I'm actually thinking of having curiosity in the deck so I can smack with zur and draw cards off of him. I also think you should find room for Phyrexian Arena, and Necro. Because they go hand in hand with solitary and solidifies your victory.
There are a few ways you can play though. Either slow and control or rush for the kill. Depends on your opponent as well as your play style. I understand that you want diplomatic immunity first when playing slow control which makes Runechanter's Pike seem useless and its not a good top deck later on, but I still think its worth testing. You could easily have played Runechanter's Pike turns 2 or 3 before you play Zur and the turn after he's summoned you can equip him and then swing to fetch diplomatic immunity. I mean if you're trying to play draw go you don't want to play Zur without mana open for counter back-up so he's not coming down turns 3 or 4 which lengthens the window to have the equipment out earlier.
I did mention in the spoiler tag to the new version of my decklist that it is using the French Ban List, and according to their list Necropotence and Sol Ring are banned. Normally I would keep them in of course, as well as Mana Crypt and Stripmine.
This is the Initial 100 Card list: Let me know what you think I also just put it up on the multiplayer forum if you want to look at the first 118 list that I cut from.
Dance of Many to me equals instant general kill.
Declaration of Naught perfect silver bullet for any given situation.
Now this next part I am still tossing around but I want to know what you think.
A fantastic combo is Energy Field and Wheel of Sun and Moon however, WoSaM is out of course, but Planar Void is not. My question is, is there really a point at which you care if you lose something to the grave? Not sure if this works though as it doesn't seem to be a replacement effect.
I love this deck concept and I am looking forward to create it.
Quest for Ancient Secrets, seems like an amazing tool for this deck. You can shuffle alot of stuff back into the library with it, snatch it again, reuse it. Might give some creedance to use things like Seal of Doom. Granted it might be a bit slow.
A question though: I often had spot removal in my hand as dead cards when I'd much rather have a counterspell. Why use spot removal at all when counterspells prevent the permanent from coming into play in the first place? And, counterspells stop non-permanents and prevent come-into-play effects.
My suspicion is that there aren't enough low cost hard counters out there, so you filled the remaining slots with spot removal. True?
Here are some alternative counters that I found since I don't have the high cost ones like Force and Mana Drain. They're weaker, but still interesting:
Exclude - Opponents will cast a creature eventually.
Discombobulate - Expensive, but the Top effect helps.
Dismiss
Ertai's Meddling - Stall the spell.
Rethink - Stops the many high-cost cards in EDH.
Rites of Refusal - Flexible; discard enough cards so they can't pay, though discarding hurts.
Some less interesting counters that I found:
Deprive - Mana artifacts reduce the need for the bounced land.
Essence Scatter / False Summoning / Remove Soul - They've got to cast creatures eventually.
Rewind - Counter, and get ready for another counter.
FireFox31
Validating Netdecks and Land Smackdown
Now he has created Edric. It's really scary 1v1 surprisingly enough, because the deck is a bunch of small dorks and edric and 25 different counterspells, he draws insane amounts of cards and extra turn spells and repeat since he draws most of his deck every game. My Damia Combo deck can't get off the ground because he can leave open counter mana every turn and I can't ramp to play my bigger spells. So as it seems I need a deck that can tutor things up relatively quickly.
Also if I can land Zur I was looking at Energy Field, Solitary Confinement, and Propaganda, and Ghostly Prison since it will essentially make his deck mediocre and useless. Though I was looking at the lists I feel like I want to make a hybrid between the 1v1 and the multiplayer list. Because there are definitely merits to both of the lists. Not to mention that Zur blocks every single one of his guys and kills the majority of them also. So I will start working on a list and produce it on the database and help out this forum since it seems to be a good hub for information.
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Caves of Koilos
1 City of Brass
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Tolaria West
1 Tundra
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Arcane Laboratory
1 Aura of Silence
1 Azorius Signet
1 Capsize
1 Chrome Mox
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Condemn
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Daybreak Coronet
1 Delay
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Devour in Shadow
1 Dimir Signet
1 Diplomatic Immunity
1 Dissipate
1 Dream Fracture
1 Dromar's Charm
1 Empyrial Armor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Forbid
1 Force of Will
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Hinder
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Mind Stone
1 Misdirection
1 Mortify
1 Mox Diamond
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Orim's Chant
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Pact of Negation
1 Path to Exile
1 Power Sink
1 Ravages of War
1 Remand
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Steel of the Godhead
1 Sudden Death
1 Sunder
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Vanishing
1 Vindicate
1 Winds of Rath
1 Wipe Away
I have had great success with fetching Prison Term So Zur can't get blocked, Faerie Trickery another Dissipate, Replenish to help with Wrath effects, Hall of the Bandit Lord Giving Zur haste, Copy Enchantment so many great enchantments to copy! And of course the new Command Tower! And maybe adding the Crucible Of Worlds since you have Stipe Mine.
Here is a link to my older list with pics! http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=6114
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Divine Reckoning is kind of like our Winds of Rath#2 and it has flashback.
Victim of Night is a decent option but I still prefer to not have to worry about the creature type so I still recommend Devour in Shadow which also stops regeneration. However other voltron decks like Uril for example need to be dealt with by an edict effect so I suggest having at least one of the following to tutor for just in case: Diabolic Edict, Chainer's Edict, Geth's Verdict, Cruel Edict, or Tribute to Hunger.
I think Runechanter's Pike is a very solid equipment for Zur even though the focus here is about auras.
Also I'm thinking a few solid discard options could be considered like:
Thougthseize
Hymn to Tourach
Duress
Inquisition of Kozilek
Currently the deck has no graveyard hate which may or may not be a problem with the large number of counterspells. Shred Memory, Bojuka Bog, and Nihil Spellbomb are probably our best options for this.
I don't like equipment in this deck, I feel like the pike is actually a poor choice, I think the deck doesn't need to worry about a fast clock, you should be playing draw go pretty quickly. I feel like cutting sol ring, and coalition relic is wrong. Also in a general sense you should be putting diplomatic immunity on your Zur so the pike can't even equip. It's just better to have more raw card advantage and stop their plans rather than try and kill them in two swings. I'm actually thinking of having curiosity in the deck so I can smack with zur and draw cards off of him. I also think you should find room for Phyrexian Arena, and Necro. Because they go hand in hand with solitary and solidifies your victory.
I also think more counterspells less disruption spells
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
There are a few ways you can play though. Either slow and control or rush for the kill. Depends on your opponent as well as your play style. I understand that you want diplomatic immunity first when playing slow control which makes Runechanter's Pike seem useless and its not a good top deck later on, but I still think its worth testing. You could easily have played Runechanter's Pike turns 2 or 3 before you play Zur and the turn after he's summoned you can equip him and then swing to fetch diplomatic immunity. I mean if you're trying to play draw go you don't want to play Zur without mana open for counter back-up so he's not coming down turns 3 or 4 which lengthens the window to have the equipment out earlier.
I did mention in the spoiler tag to the new version of my decklist that it is using the French Ban List, and according to their list Necropotence and Sol Ring are banned. Normally I would keep them in of course, as well as Mana Crypt and Stripmine.
1x Zur the Enchanter
Artifacts: 13
1x Mox Diamond
1x Mox Opal
1x Chrome Mox
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Azorius Signet
1x Dimir Signet
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Progress
1x Coalition Relic
1x Sensei's Divining Top
Creatures: 8
1x Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
1x Trinket Mage
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Academy Rector
1x Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1x Baneslayer Angel
1x Divinity of Pride
Enchantments: 13
1x Diplomatic Immunity
1x Daybreak Coronet
1x Steel of the Godhead
1x Empyrial Armor
1x Land Tax
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Arcane Laboratory
1x Aura of Silence
1x Necropotence
1x Solitary Confinement
1x Prison Term
1x Rhystic Study
1x Humility
1x Power Sink
1x Mana Drain
1x Counterspell
1x Delay
1x Remand
1x Hinder
1x Spell Crumple
1x Forbid
1x Force of Will
1x Misdirection
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Codemn
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Oblation
1x Mortify
1x Capsize
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Sunder
Planeswalkers: 1
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorceries: 5
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Damnation
1x Divine Reckoning
1x Cataclysm
1x Armageddon
Lands: 37
1x Command Tower
1x Reflecting Pool
1x City of Brass
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland
1x Tundra
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats
1x Fetid Heath
1x Mystic Gate
1x Sunken Ruins
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Ancient Den
1x Vault of Whispers
5x Island
4x Plains
4x Swamp
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG