”You know how to fight six men. We can teach you how to engage six hundred. You know how to disappear. We can teach you to become truly invisible.” - Batman Begins
”I used to think spells equaled power, too, back when I was alive. But I've learned a lot since then. You know what does equal power? Power. Power equals power.” - Xykon
Zur is often considered a top choice in EDH duels, but suffers a lot of hate in multiplayer. This thread is about creating a Zur list ready and able to take up that challenge – fighting everyone at once and still having a decent shot at winning.
I was inspired to write this by cr87's excellent Arcum Dagsson primer, which also focuses on multiplayer control and game winning locks like Winter Orb. This too will be a lengthy post and not for the faint of heart! Having browsed most of what's available online and made some tough cuts, I've arrived at a list that is still very open for debate. I will go through all the key ingredients I think a Zur list should contain, and discuss what I consider the best choices for each category, and also on cards that were considered but didn't make the final cut. Your input is highly appreciated and will contribute to making one of the strongest Zur lists ever!
Control Locks
Protecting yourself by locking the board with permanents is typically a bad strategy in multi-player EDH, because chances are that one of your opponents will have an answer and remove the offending permanent. However, Zur can help this by using Greater Auramancy and Copy Enchantment (which has many other uses too) to make all enchantments untargetable. It's also easy to recur enchantments for encore appearances using Mistveil Plains or the awesome Replenish.
One of the best locks available is Mana Vortex, which is kinda like a Braids, Cabal Minion that gets right to the juicy bits – the lands - making it more difficult for opponents to do anything about the situation, or indeed do anything at all. You really don't need your lands that much with an active Zur, since you can win the game with him and his fetches alone. Similar effects include Contamination and Desolation, but both are more of a hassle than Mana Vortex. Additional mana denial is rarely worth it (with the exception of Catastrophe below), as it is win more with an active Zur, and typically counter-productive when you don't have Zur.
Another protective enchantment I think is worth running is Solitary Confinement, which does an immensly better job of keeping you alive than say Ghostly Prison/Propaganda which are too easy to circumvent for a large table. It also shields you from pain lands and artifacts. The many and powerful draw effects that will be discussed below make the upkeep irrelevant. Finally, I'd also include Prison Term. Some decks are severely shut down by having their general locked on the board, and auramancy makes this hard to deal with even if the get help from other players. Can even stop something nasty with haste causing trouble as you can move it around to suit your needs.
Sweepers
Clearing the board of creatures at even intervals is the best defense available in addition to the enchantment locks. One of the best sweepers for Zur is Catastrophe, since it clears the board for defense when you don't have Zur, or makes it difficult for opponents to handle Zur by destroying mana if he is on the table. Wrath of God and Damnation have a low casting cost meaning you can sweep the turn after an attempted Zur if he gets countered, or have enough mana to Vanish him and sweep fairly early in the game. Hallowed Burial costs one more, but is still worth it considering the crippling effect on opponents. I'd also run Austere Command as it too can bypass Zur and also handle artifacts or even enchantments depending on board position. Finally, Decree of Pain is simply too broken to pass up even if it does cost 8 mana.
That's six sweepers, which should be sufficient considering the other answers you'll be running (as well as tutors and draw). There are many more options that I decided against. Final Judgement costs more and makes it more difficult for you to reanimate creatures after a sweep. The bonus tokens from Martial Coup and Kirtar's Wrath are hardly enough to merit the increased mana cost. Plague Wind also seems overcosted for a deck with so few creatures.
Stealing and Reanimation
To complement your sweepers, I suggest running a stealing and reanimation package. This is the most efficient way to fight multiple opponents as you use their creatures against them, and can be sure to always have the toughest hombre from the battlefield or graveyards on your side. Stealing or reanimating after a sweeper also makes it harder for your opponents to recover. Keiga, the Tide Star is one of the most efficient stealing effects, as you can probably trade with a pretty big dude and then steal another. Plus it's always a threat - something this deck rarely cares about though.
[CARD]
Desertion[/CARD] and Spelljack are excellent answers to high cc or recast generals, but work equally well for stealing a random fatty to give you some quick defense. I'd also recommend Bribery and Acquire. At the very least, both of these will net you a discounted Duplicant (and important deck information) since everybody runs those. But typically you'll be able to find something better. Thus, I see little reason to run your own Duplicant as it pales in comparison to these and Draining Whelk (should also be run) which will usually end up being bigger, and also puts the base creature in the graveyard available for reanimation. I also like Treachery, which lets you steel the actual creature for free. I'm generally against creature stealing auras since the stolen creature will return to your opponent once the enchantment is destroyed, but for no mana investment I think it's totally worth it. Blatant Thievery is reasonably priced even for duels, and only becomes more ridiculous in multiplayer. Something I decided against is Memnarch. Though he's a house in Arcum what with the acceleration and being an artifact creature, he's just too much of a mana investment. If you pay 7 for him and another 7 next round to steal a dude, chances are someone will wrath and you'll loose 2 turns having accomplished almost nothing. Kinda like the entire table taking a free Time Stretch on you.
We also need some reanimation, but not too much as we don't want to be sitting with dead cards in hand when there is a lack of good targets. Beacon of Unrest, Debtors' Knell and Necromancy (fetchable with Zur) all have merit. I don't think more than that is needed, so I'll forgo less optimal options for this deck (Puppeteer's Clique, Animate Dead etc.).
Spot Removal
In general, this is a no-no. We can't afford to run something like Swords to Plowshares, because it will accomplish too little at a large table. Only removal that can be fetched, recurred etc. make the cut. First pick is Aura of Silence. It slows down all opponents and sacrifices (to be recurred and used again if needed, for example with Mistveil Plains) when we need to deal with a problem artifact or enchantment. Second pick is Seal of Doom. Its primary use is to procure reanimation targets such as green fatties, but could also kill a general in a pinch.
Finally, I'd also include the dynamic duo of Oblivion Ring and Capsize. Both are strong on their own, but when combined, you can exile any non-land permanent for 9 mana repeatedly, and it will never return (you Capsize your own Ring with the CIP trigger on the stack). That's a pretty strong option to have in the late game. Of course, there will also be some land spot removal in the mana base, supported by Weathered Wayfarer and Crucible of Worlds.
Counters
The two stealing counters have already been discussed above, but I think it's prudent to run a few more to protect Zur before he can protect himself. Mana Drain is a no-brainer, since it's like mana ramp with a free counter. Force of Will and Misdirection also make a fantastic job of protecting Zur for no mana as he is cast. Finally, I think there's merit to running Hinder since it can mess with some generals so well, but I could see cutting it.
Zur Buffs
Many Zur lists differ on what kind and amount of Zur enhancers they run. For protection, the most important one is Vanishing since it dodges spot removal and sweepers alike for only UU. Most will include Diplomatic Immunity too, but I think it's a waste of space and a wasted fetch. What if the table responds with a sweeper instead if you fetch immunity first? And would someone actually target a vanishing Zur with removal only to see it wasted and have Zur return ready to attack next turn? I think Vanishing is suffient, considering the added protection from Lightning Greaves as well.
Number two is making Zur unblockable. There are really two options here – Steel of the Godhead and Unquestioned Authority. You do need life gain, but that can also be had from Daybreak Coronet (and after M10, multiple instances of lifelink won't apply). Finally, there is Empyrial Armor and Battle Mastery to consider, to give Zur that extra oomph. I think the tightest package to run is simply Steel of the Godhead and Empyrial Armor. Steel gives unblockability, lifelink and a small power boost in one card! Empyrial Armor is like a permanent Might of Oaks considering your draw power. Battle Mastery would add to the life gain/kill speed and all, but since Copy Enchantment on Empyrial Armor will do almost exactly the same thing, I feel little reason to include it. Unquestioned Authority offers too little extra to be considered (though the cantrip is nice), and Daybreak Coronet only really adds vigilance (and a small power boost), which shouldn't be needed anyway.
Alternate Wins
Zur will most often win by dealing general damage, but it doesn't hurt to have a back up. Magister Sphinx enables us to win aggro style, when combined with stolen or reanimated creatures. It's the only actual ”threat” I think this deck should run, though in truth we care more about the CIP ability than the fact that it's a creature.
Now for the trashing of some combo wins. Probably the strongest combo Zur could run is Stuffy Doll + Guilty Conscience + Flickerform, since this lets you kill players for 2WW and two of the parts tutor with Zur. There are two problems with this though. Firstly, I think it's win more. If I have the luxury of using Zur fetches to pimp out my doll, I could already be dominating the board in so many other ways. Secondly, the combo forces me to run three subpar cards with little use unto themselves. There are many, many examples of this in other combos too (like Power Artifact and Grim Monolith), but since none of them will to better than this I see little reason to run any other either.
Second Chance recursion and taking infinite turns is yet another combo I've opted to ditch, because it requires too much set up. You need Mistveil Plains for recursion and typically Necropotence to get you to 5 life (my arguments against necro below), and then some form of protection so nobody instant speed kills you when you're at 5 life (like Solitary Confinment). Plus you need to untap with Second Chance, giving everybody a chance to stop you. Finally, there's the ol' Mindslaver + Academy Ruins. I don't think the effect is worth the mana cost, but ruins should probably be run anyway for utility. If there are any more absolute combo ”musts” that I've missed, let me know.
Zur's Other Tricks
To recur lost goodies, we will run Replenish (I don't think Retether is worth it, considering Zur has Vanishing). As most of our other recursion is in lands, Crucible of Worlds seems prudent, and goes well with Mana Vortex/Catastrophe. We'll also want Lightning Greaves to haste and protect Zur, and of course Yawgmoth's Will. For a control deck that aims to fight the entire board, I also think Beacon of Immortality has merit. It can make a huge difference even if we don't have Zur, and make us neigh untouchable after a few attacks with a godheaded Zur. Life gain is important not only for fighting multiple opponents, but also because the deck tends to use life as a resource to get mana and cards. Graveyard hate and handling activated abilities are still glaring holes in our repertoire! Voidmage Husher and Stonecloaker take care of that, and might just be the best cards in EDH for the job.
Tutors
To tailor our control repertoire, we need a few tutors and there are many to choose from in Zur's colors. My selection criteria is 1) no more than 2 mana (excludes Mystical Teachings, Intuition among others), as I think 3+ mana risks being too much when combined with the tutor target 2) no sorcery speed card disadvantage tutors (such as Personal Tutor), since you'll often have to wait too long for the target and 3) not overly narrow tutors that only have few targets (example: Steelshaper's Gift, Merchant Scroll). This leaves me with: Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor.
I also include Weathered Wayfarer, since he's a reusable land tutor for 1 mana. Naturally, Land Tax makes the cut for the same reason. I don't think neither Tithe nor the added threat potential of Eternal Dragon are worth it here, even though they do offer some mana fixing. I'd rather be running more artifact acceleration like signets and talismans than those. I don't really count Tolaria West as a tutor, but I think it should be run as well.
Card Draw
There are so many options for card drawing, and I keep going back and forth on some options. The ones I've picked are Phyrexian Arena, Rhystic Study, Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top. The ones I've considered but not included are Standstill, Necropotence, Mind's Eye, Memory Jar, Fact or Fiction and Syphon Mind. Phyrexian Arena is always solid and great for Solitary Confinement. Rhystic Study is better than Standstill for multiplayer, while the reverse is true for duels. Anyway, Rhystic works well with Aura of Silence and Mana Vortex. Scroll Rack puts enchantments in your hand back in your library (so Zur can get them) and replaces them with something better, and both it and SDT are excellent with the shuffling. All of them are cheap (or free) to cast/use and easy to recur/protect, making them a nightmare for opponents. Having Necropotence in your deck is a good way to get yourself killed if you get hit by Mindslaver (a common inclusion in some of the toughest decks for you to beat), and there's really no reason but greed to go through the hassle of Necropotence. The other cuts were simply to expensive for their effect when compared to the others.
Acceleration
We want to have Zur attacking by turn 4 in as many games as possible. As a reference value, 17-18 acceleration effects is needed in a 100 card deck to achieve this in 80% of all games. However, this would include also all tutors that can get any acceleration piece in a timely fashion. With Academy Ruins and Tolarian Academy available in our colors, I see no reason to go light on artifact mana. However, we shouldn't go overboard and bring everything in. For example, there's not much use in acceleration that doesn't help us accelerate Zur (like Coalition Relic). For ”post Zur” mana acceleration, I prefer to rely on lands like Tolarian Academy, Serra's Sanctum and Ancient Tomb.
First picks are the three signets and the two talismans in our colors, since they both boost and fix mana. Lightning Greaves has already been mentioned, and Hall of the Bandit Lord should also be included and can be found by wayfarer. Of course, we'll also want Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. That's 9 effects so far, and with the 4 tutoring effects that work, this gives us 13 sources of acceleration, but we wanted at least 4 more! I think the top picks are Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mind Stone and the hidden gem that is Copy Artifact. In multiplayer, a turn 2 Copy Artifact is extremely likely to be at least a ”Fellwar Stone”, and it has so many more uses later in the game than simply being an acceleration piece.
Lands
Zur rewards a stable mana base that can afford to run pain lands (thanks to life gain and Solitary Confinement) but not many CIPT lands. We'll promptly add the four onslaught fetches (all except Wooded Foothills), the three vintage duels and the three ”pay 2 life” duels. We also add the three pain lands and the three laundry lands from Shadowmoor block. As for ”any mana” lands, the drawbacks of City of Brass, Glimmervoid and Forbidden Orchard are not very significant in this deck, and I'd also run Tendo Ice Bridge as you'll probably only really need the mana fix once. This gives us 20 multi-colored mana sources!
As for colorless lands, I think it's sufficient to only run Strip Mine, since we have Crucible, Wayfarer, Tolaria West and other tutors as well. It's probably good to have at least one manland for the same reason, and the best is probably Mishra's Factory (I prefer it over Faerie Conclave). Then there is Academy Ruins which I think is highly worth it, whereas I'll pass on Volrath's Stronghold and just use reanimation instead (I don't run many creatures of my own anyway). Though we pay a dear price for using it, I still think Hall of the Bandit Lord is worth it in Zur (and you can always sac it to Mana Vortex when no longer needed). Miren, the Moaning Well should probably be included too, as the deck is highly dependent on life gain and a sacrificial outlet can be useful if things go wrong. Finally, Ancient Tomb gives us a little extra acceleration, and is so much better than Temple to the False God which sits useless in hand for the first four land drops. That's another 6 lands!
Finally, we need a few basics to support Land Tax. Land Tax will only really be fetched together with Scroll Rack, or if mana fixing is badly needed. Thus, we don't need many basics to support it, but I think one each of the basics and the snow-covered basics will be pretty optimal (to piggy back on others' Extraplanar Lenses etc). That's 6 basics, for a total of 38 lands.
And now to sum up, the proposed deck list in its entirety:
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I appreciate the effort you put into this, and overall it looks pretty good. I'm not really certain how much sense it makes to try to cutting-edge maximize an EDH deck for multiplayer though, considering what a huge impact politics have a game. You might be able to lock everyone out and win sometimes, but if you do, you'll be ganged up on first every game. I don't think you can win more games than you lose like this (though that depends on how many people you play with, and a hundred other variables...).
In some ways, I think Phelddagrif, or any number of other random generals, would be more competitve multiplayer generals, just because they won't get you hated on so hard. I mean, I read a report of a big multiplayer game by Bennie Smith recently. He was playing Norin the Wary...yeah. He wasn't even playing the one card that goes really well with it (Confusion in the Ranks), because he thought it would get too confusing in a big game. His general was completely useless, his deck was mostly useless, and he still won the game, mostly because he wasn't perceived as a major threat. I'm not sure this kind of strategy will help you out very much.
Other than that comment, which is more about the mindset than the deck, my one major critique of your list is that it has too many high-cost cards. These cards are great in a vacuum, but don't play into Zur's strategy at all. Most games with Zur tend to be about the same...you get him into play and attacking as soon as possible. Succeed in this, and you probably win, so long as you can keep protecting him. You don't need anything to win at this point. I can't see why I'd want to tap out for something like Blatant Thievery, when I could keep mana for counterspells/Vanishing up instead, and ensure that my win condition is safe.
You may say "Most games go like that, but not all of them. Blatant Thievery and co. are for when Zur can't get in there." This is a valid point...but wouldn't those card slots be better spend helping Zur get there?
Look at it this way...what stops Zur?
1) lots of counterspells/removal,
2) mana/color screw,
3) tappers/pacifisms,
4) Hinder/Condemn effects.
There are other possible problems, but I can't think of anything else that sees any play at all.
What are the best answers to these?
1) more counterspells, especially cheap ones. Counterspells are always good to have--Zur can afford to keep mana open all the time after he's in play, so you'll always have mana open to counter potential problems, so long as you have enough counterspells. Cheap counterspells are especially valuable because they can help you force Zur through.
Mana denial is also a good option to deal with counterspells.
2) Short of cards like Sacred Ground or Karmic Justice, you've got all the options to beat land destruction. The most likely scenario is that you randomly get manascrewed or colorscrewed sometimes--maximizing your lands that tap for colored mana and running more artifacts that can produce any color will help you out here.
3) a few versatile removal spells can handle this. These effects can usually slow you down a few turns, but not stop you.
4) these suck for you. Counterspells help sometimes, but your best option are the tutors that can find Zur. You only run 2...there are several more good tutors you could be running.
So...if plan A doesn't work, you want to have counterspells, mana denial, consistent mana, versatile removal, and tutors. You have so many expensive spells that you never want to cast with Zur in play...and yet they don't really help you win if Zur isn't in play.
One of my most-tuned EDH decks is Sharuum the Hegemon. It's full of explosive artifact mana, and tends to lock the game up one way or another within the first 4 or 5 turns. Zur is a similar style of general in my opinion--less resilient to hate, but faster and more consistent. In my Sharuum list, I've grown away from any cards that aren't good in my opening hand, because odds are that if I don't see them there, I won't ever see them--the deck is that fast. I suspect that Zur is a lot like Sharuum in this respect, except even more so--you don't have the explosive mana artifacts I do, so any big clunky spells in your hand are even more useless, for longer. These cards slow you down, detract from your good starts, and don't help your bad starts--and you have a LOT of them. Beacon of Immortality (so little synergy with this deck anyhow), Keiga, Debtor's Knell, Bribery, Blatant Thievery, Beacon of Unrest, and Decree of Pain all probably fit this description. Magister Sphinx, Voidmage Husher, Treachery, Acquire, and Yawgmoth's Will (blasphemy, I know) are borderline as well. These cards don't play very nicely with Zur, they detract from your killer starts, and they don't do enough to advance your gameplan, with or without Zur in play. If you replaced all these cards with counterspells, mana sources, and tutors, your deck would be significantly more consistent.
I'll go through and comment on some individual card choices later, but for a positive note, here are some cards I think you should consider adding.
Armageddon/Ravages of War
There is no part of these cards that doesn't not work well in this deck. They're easy to cast. They're very powerful in multiplayer. After Zur, they seal your victory, before Zur, they can help beat control decks that can otherwise give you problems. Compare these to Mana Vortex...sure you can tutor Mana Vortex, but it's still going to take the Vortex 4 turns to kill 4 lands. Armageddon will kill all those lands immediately, and works great with Mana Vortex too, to really lock people down. Finally, you're already running all the cards that help you recover from Armageddon--Crucible of Worlds, Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, Flagstones of Trokair...I really can't think of a single good reason not to run these.
Tutors: Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal are great, if you can get them. Clutch of the Undercity should absolutely be in here: it's versatile removal AND a tutor. In addition to finding nice cards like Armageddon, Wrath of God, or Replenish, it gets you Zur back if he gets shuffled into your deck somehow. You should probably toss in Vindicate while you're at it. Also, look at fitting in some more counterspells and other blue cards--Force of Will and Misdirection are great, but your blue spells count is really much too low to make them work consistently. I think Arcane Laboratory might be very good here, though it's probably better in duels.
Artifact acceleration: Coldsteel Heart is probably worthwhile here...it accelerates you into Zur and gets whatever color you need. It's probably more effective colorfixing than Talismans/Signets. Even though it doesn't directly accelerate you into Zur, stuff like Coalition Relic and Darksteel Ingot are probably worthwhile as well, just for keeping up with other players' mana, and supporting you a bit after Armageddon.
Karoo lands: Azorius Chancery, Dimir Aqueducts, Orzhov Basilica. Despite the risk of Wasteland, these are probably worthwhile. They let you keep 2 land hands, fix your mana effectively, and, most importantly, reduce your land count. This is very important to make sure Weathered Wayfarer and Land Tax work effectively early on--you don't want to have to miss a land drop to get them going. Speaking of Land Tax, I really think you need at least 2-3 more basic lands to get good enough use out of it. I see a bunch of lands you can cut, focusing on the ones that only make colorless--Academy Ruins is bad here, especailly now that Gifts Ungiven is banned...you have very little worth returning with it. I have a lot of experience with Tolarian Academy, and I don't think you've got enough artifacts to really make it work for you. It'll screw you over sometimes, and getting 2-3 blue mana from it in other situations probably isn't worth the risk. Glimmervoid is just bad. I won't even run it in Sharuum, where I have like 50 artifacts--your 15 sure as hell aren't enough.
I'll have more comments soon...I'm sure I'll think of some more cards to add, and there are a bunch of cards I think should be cut. You need to be very careful in what makes the grade in this deck--cards that would be good in any other deck aren't necessarily here, if they don't fulfill a particular need for the deck. For instance, you mentioned how insanely good Standstill is in duels in the Arcum thread...except I don't think Standstill is worth running, even in duels. Even if you treat it as just automatically drawing you 3 cards when tutored with Zur, 3 cards isn't worth the Zur tutor, because Zur doesn't really need more cards in hand. That's a waste of an attack with Zur. To make this deck as strong as possible, you should be looking at all your cards specifically for how they interact with Zur.
Thank you for your comments Khymera - up to snuff as always.
I'm not really certain how much sense it makes to try to cutting-edge maximize an EDH deck for multiplayer though, considering what a huge impact politics have a game. You might be able to lock everyone out and win sometimes, but if you do, you'll be ganged up on first every game. I don't think you can win more games than you lose like this (though that depends on how many people you play with, and a hundred other variables...).
Oh, I'm totally with you on this reasoning. That's why I play Lin Sivvi. This list is purely theoretical optimization and not something I would play, let alone go out and buy the cards for. But the entire idea with this thread was to just say, "meh - I'm gonna go for all out power, fight you all simultaneously, and good luck trying to stop me." I'm not convinced it will work or produce more multiplayer wins than incorporating diplomacy into your strategy But the only two generals that I think are capable of a "screw you ALL approach" is Zur and Arcum, and cr87 had already done Arcum so I felt Zur needed his spot in the multiplayer sun.
You may say "Most games go like that, but not all of them. Blatant Thievery and co. are for when Zur can't get in there." This is a valid point...but wouldn't those card slots be better spend helping Zur get there?
That's exactly what I'd say, and to answer your question, I assume there is an optimum balance between cards that help force Zur and cards that are solid regardless of Zur. I'll go more into this in your 4 categories.
1) If you tap out to cast Zur (like turn 3), only FoW and Misdirection can protect him (not counting Pact of Negation which I think is too risky). If you wait until you have - say - 7 mana to back him up with a Hinder, you have ample time to play those big spells, but the problem with this is that you're sitting at a multi-player table. If 2 of your 4 opponents have answers, and you only have one counter to back him up, that counter was essentially wasted. That's why I just try to cast Zur a.s.a.p. If I happen to have FoW, good, if not and Zur dies before grabbing Vanishing, I just play other spells until I can try again. I already run 6 counters and the concept of countering is itself weak in multiplayer.
2-4) The suggested modifications could all be made, as long as the multi-player potency isn't weakened. I might add that any creature sweeper is essentially an out to Zur getting board locked, and that there is already Capsize, Aura and ORing to deal with problems, and that additional tutors under 4) will also improve grabbing answers for 3).
I could definetely see replacing some of the more mana intensive cards with tutors and artifact mana. The reason I excluded most Geddon effects was that they would only be useful once Zur was already up and running, and at that point I already have Vanishing to protect him. Without Zur, blowing up lands would most likely mean a board position where my opponents have a lot more threats than I do, and neither of us will have much opportunity to do something about it. That's why Catastrophe is so good, because it can have that useful (if slightly win-more) effect if Zur is active, but also sweeps creatures if I'm in a bad position. I suppose Cataclysm could also be considered for the same reason, since it comes with a Zur hole in it? Another better option than geddon/ravages is probably Sunder. Pretty nasty with Empyrial Armor.
Btw, what are your general thoughts on sweeping/stealing/reanimation in multiplayer? Is it the best strategy to stay alive against multiple opponents, or is it better to have I WIN cards (like Test of Endurance - taken only as an example) that you try to protect?
To make this deck as strong as possible, you should be looking at all your cards specifically for how they interact with Zur.
While it doesn't hurt to look, I think one "interaction" you will need to prepar for is Zur not being on the board or getting to use him. It will happen. Is a card that says "1U, draw three cards" so good in 1v1 in such a situation that it makes the 100 card cut? Probably. The fact that you can abuse it with Zur is pure gravy.
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I run Winds of Rath in my Zur deck and love it. After I attack and fetch vanishing, I don't even need to phase him out to make him bypass the sweeper. As not many people run auras these days, it is basically a wrath for everything but Zur.
I agree with a previous poster that Tolarian Academy and Academy Ruins are generally not worth it. I run similar artifact mana to yours, and I even run Mind's Eye, but I find myself always having something better to do with my mana than recurring them.
Finally, I personally like to run more creature based threats in case Zur gets hated to the point of being unplayable. In addition to Magister Sphinx, which is completely broken in duels, I run Angel of Despair, Memnarch (to counter Forcefield, which is common in EDH in my area), and Sundering Titan (because in larger games, I can always avoid hitting myself with it due to the number of duals people play).
Having Necropotence in your deck is a good way to get yourself killed if you get hit by Mindslaver (a common inclusion in some of the toughest decks for you to beat), and there's really no reason but greed to go through the hassle of Necropotence.
Wait, wait....you're going to not run the most powerful unbanned card in the format...in a deck whose general can tutor it directly into play....because...you might get mindslavered? Seriously???
To tailor our control repertoire, we need a few tutors and there are many to choose from in Zur's colors. My selection criteria is 1) no more than 2 mana (excludes Mystical Teachings, Intuition among others), as I think 3+ mana risks being too much when combined with the tutor target 2) no sorcery speed card disadvantage tutors (such as Personal Tutor), since you'll often have to wait too long for the target
Your selection criteria is pretty arbitrary...There's no need to exclude teachings, for example; it's an instant! You can pass the turn without spending any mana, counter something if needed, and if not, then tutor away right before untapping. Anything that can get force of will in your hand will help you stick zur, which is what this deck lives or dies on. Ditto on what Khymera said about imperial seal et al.
The ideal way to play this deck isn't just to run zur out turn 3 and hope your opponents have nothing. It's to use tutors and/or luck to get force of will, misdirection, pact, daze (yes, even daze) into your hand, and then play him with protection. How many removal spells (playable by turn 4) do you think each opponent is playing in their decks? Maybe 5 cards per deck on average? Giving 3 such opponents 1 extra draw before casting zur only only offers a 16% chance that an opponent has drawn a removal spell they didn't have before. Even taking 2 extra turns has a 71% chance of them drawing blanks. If you counter one removal spell and a second opponent has another, congrats, you've got one less removal spell to contend with the next time you cast zur.
and the concept of countering is itself weak in multiplayer.
ugh, this logic is so bad I don't even want to argue it right now. But I'll try.
I assume you're basing that statement on the following logic: In a multiplayer game with, say, 5 players, your opponents collectively draw 4 cards every turn while you only draw one, so trading one of yours for one of your opponents still leaves 3 unanswered. You're trading your entire turn's worth of resources for 1/4th of your collective opposition's resources for the turn. Thus, 1 for 1s are bad, right?
Here's the thing. Every card played only has a 1 in 4 chance of victimizing you more than the caster's other opponents. You don't have to answer every card drawn by an opponent! Only the ones they're going to use against you. The "1-for-1=bad" logic is applicable to discard effects, but with counterspells you get to see who the victim is before choosing whether or not you want to counter it. Do you want to counter swords to plowshares? If it's targetting your zur, then yes...if it's targetting that other dude's kiki-jiki, then hellz no.
You can extend that logic. Any card that victimizes you will, almost by definition, already be costing you at least one card if it resolves. And usually, it's a card(s) you've already paid mana for, meaning you lose not only the card but also the tempo invested in it.
I mean really, if someone targets you with cruel ultimatum (meaning you're about to lose a creature and discard 3), are you going to argue that you should NOT counter it because that trade is 'merely a 1-for-1', and therefore not good enough for multiplayer?
Consider this too: if you have mana untapped, and people know you're packing countermagic, do you think that knowledge might impact the likelihood of them choosing you as the target for a spell like cruel ultimatum?
Counterspells are NOT bad in multiplayer. They're exactly the opposite of bad.
Nice post, Khymera. I disagree with trying to power down decks for multiplayer, but to each his own. Your technical analysis was spot-on except for one thing:
Quote from Khymera »
I don't think Standstill is worth running, even in duels. Even if you treat it as just automatically drawing you 3 cards when tutored with Zur, 3 cards isn't worth the Zur tutor
You don't run standstill as a zur tutor target. You run for the chance of top-decking ancestral recall.
I run Winds of Rath in my Zur deck and love it. After I attack and fetch vanishing, I don't even need to phase him out to make him bypass the sweeper. As not many people run auras these days, it is basically a wrath for everything but Zur.
If you have zur in play, and he survived long enough for you to untap, you don't need to wrath.
And as an aside, automatically getting vanishing first on zur everytime is not the correct play. In fact, the only time it is correct is if the only reason zur was able to attack was raw tempo (eg: people were tapped out and you gave him haste). Any situation where your opponents demonstrated that they don't have an immediate answer for zur, you should just get necropotence.
Finally, I personally like to run more creature based threats in case Zur gets hated to the point of being unplayable.
If that happens, you're going to lose anyway. You have invested deck-space in zur-related cards. Playing late-game bomb wars is going to heavily favor your opponents who've been able to commit their whole deck to that game-plan (or worse, game-plans of comparable power-level to zur that haven't been hated out of the game). You pretty much have to go all-in on zur.
Wait, wait....you're going to not run the most powerful unbanned card in the format...in a deck whose general can tutor it directly into play....because...you might get mindslavered? Seriously???
Not 'might'; rather, you will inevitably get mindlsavered because most if not all blue generals run slaver and academy ruins (at least where I play). It is unlikely that you will be able to stop more than one such opponent from doing so in a large multiplayer game.
I personally don't find Necropotence that great in EDH. While Rhystic Study is far less powerful as a draw engine, it also is far less likely to attract the ire of your opponents: most of them won't mind your drawing another card every now and then (see also Mind's Eye), and with Study they can always pay extra to stop you, but they usually do mind when you abuse an overpowered bomb like 'potence.
While Necropotence can get you killed if you have zur out, I feel it is definitely worth it, if even only for the ability to fetch 'potence, draw ~20 cards out of it, counter whatever your opponents try to do, then swing with Zur and fetch Empyrial Armor. This is one of the fastest clocks available for Zur, and quite fast in EDH scale in general. You can be swinging for general damage turn 5 with a signet, or even turn 4 with signet + Hall of the Bandit Lord.
The ability to get rid of threatening opponent fast, in my opinion, outweights the chance of getting hit by a mindslaver early on and losing the game. Especially considering that a mindslaver early on is going to screw you over anyway - Wrathing zur and letting it stay on graveyard, for instance. You have exactly two cards to get it back: Necromancy and Debtor's Knell.
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In 1-on-1, a fast Zur into empyrial armor + necropotence with lots of cheap counter backup is probably the fastest win. The purpose of this thread was to explore Zur in multiplayer though, which led me to more controlling options and a greater mid game focus.
I still abide by the overall conclusion of the thread that politics matter more than power in a competitive multiplayer game. In short, Zur probably is a strictly single player general.
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Not a bad 1v1 Deck especially for one with the B&R changing most of the short game. I would address a few of the changes you made with some of your cuts and adds. Taking out Wrath and Damnation is not a good idea. Scroll Rack is good in Zur just not this type of Zur I think... Scroll Rack is better in a blue based Zur so good Choice. You never take out the Armor and theres Zurs "Supersuit"? Whats wrong with a Morphling that has Zurs ability? So far the best multiplayer as well as 1v1 Zur deck had a specific Zur setup that locks you up after the first few turns he is out then procedes to filter through the deck and just kind of counter and mess with your mana base till Zur delivers the death stroke. It was really really good and it was definately cause for us to all go after him on game 2 cause he beat a 4 player EDH game in the first 6 turns lol
I feel that 2 auras that buff zur's attack power is about the right amount, with two you get a sufficient clock. We have these options:
Empyrial Armor - has the potential for the largest +power bonus of any enchant, however the deck empties its hand VERY quickly, so to start off its bonus is sometimes small. Post armagedon it grows decently even from an empty hand.
Steel of the Godhead - the evasion has proven to be never relevant, the lifelink is rarely useful, but occasionaly relevant.
Daybreak Coronet - +3 is higher than steel, coronet is better vs creature attacks (lifelink + vigiliance and first strike to make Zur usable on defense). MAJOR draw back is that if you draw Coronet, it will almost never got on Zur since aura #1 on zur is always Diplomatic Immunity.
Pemmin's Aura - TBH I have not tested this for one major reason, my #1 goal is to play Zur -> Armageddon. If I were to run Pemmin's Aura, it would be becuase it allows me not to run Diplomatic Immunity. If I resolve an Armageddon post zur I would want to tutor out DI, since DI is not in my deck becuase I ran Pemmin's Aura instead, I would be very upset. In a deck not as focused on land destruction as this one, Pemmin's gets much better, but not for this deck.
That leaves us running with some combination of the following:
Steel of the Godhead
Empyrial Armor
Daybreak Coronet
I havnt decided with combination of two works best yet, and atm I still juggle between the three.
My typical game plan is as follows, in order of priority: Pre-Zur
#1 Duress out answers to zur
#2 Mana ramp
#3 Counter anything relevant if I cant do #1 or #2
Post Zur
#1 If I have armageddon in hand, cast armageddon. Zur out Diplomatic Immunity, GG.
#2 If I have no armageddon in hand, Zur out Mana Vortex, and then Diplomatic Immunity.
#3 If they have there general in play (and it's relevant, ie Rofellos, Arcum etc) Prison Term, then proceed as above.
#4 If the have a must answer threat, answer using Oblivion Ring / Aura of Silence etc.
Generally speaking, I try never to cast Zur into an un-duressed hand without Force of Will backup.
My issue with *** and Damnation is as follows, it is not creatures attacking and racing me that cause me to lose, rather it is generals with OP abilities such Rofellos or Arcum etc. Thus I think more cheap spot removal is better suited, rather than board wipes. Also the fact that Wrath and Damnation are essentially dead post Zur is another knock against them.
I don't like O-ring in Zur. 90% of the time you play it, you'll be tutoring it into play with Zur, and since you're selectively tutoring, its versatility really doesn't matter. If you need to handle an artifact or enchantment, you've got aura of silence (and possible seal of cleansing). If you need to handle a creature, there's prison term (and possibly seal of doom). If you need to handle a planeswalker, there's steel of the godhead to bash away their loyalty.
Actually, I don't like O-ring in the format at all. Suppose an opponent gets something nasty out and you O-ring it. Later, someone uses disk, O-stone, austere, akroma's vengeance, jokulhaups, whatever...and presto the board is wiped except that one opponent now has the advantage of a nasty threat already in play. You've just invested a card and some tempo into protecting an opponent's threat for him/her. In multiplayer EDH, thanks to the heavy use of sweepers, all non-land permanents have limited life-span (and in some metas, lands too). That means O-ring is sort of like boomerang, or delay...it just stalls for time, which isn't as good as the wicked hard removal white already has (plow, path, return to dust, etc).
I suppose it's justifiable in some 1v1 decks.
I heavily advocate for empyrial armor and steel of the godhead as your eventual finisher plan. Just get necro if your hand size is small. Being empty handed is a problem for far bigger reasons than dimished pump potential, and is something you'll likely want to address before going for the throat anyway.
Regarding Zur, you bring up some valid points regarding O-Ring, Ill have to ponder that.
Regarding O-ring in a generic 1v1 edh deck. The sweepers you speak of are not run due to being to slow, so its essentially vindicate #2.
Regarding O-Ring in multiplayer edh, I agree I dont like it either.
Necropotence is banned under the banlist I am using, so that synergy is out.
IMO the most important targets for cheap creature spot removal are the generals that are cast turns 1-3 and are game ending if not answered. Rofellos, Arcum etc etc. Killing a general essentially turns your removal spell into a Remand, card advantage loss to you, but tempo loss of them. The tempo loss from your opponent comes from the fact that they now need 2 more mana to cast there general, as well as his original cost. Path to Exile putting a land into play negates a signifigant portion of the tempo gain of using spot removal on a general.
TLDR: Pongify on a t2 Rofellos keeps him off the board longer than a Path to Exile on the same Rofellos.
I see well good luck... I like the idea of doing that I hope it works. Penmins Aura gives Zur shroud which should be the reason you run it. Im not too familiar with the other two cards but it just seems like making your general into Morphling is a good idea. He is one of the best blue creatures for a reason lol The only problem I have with this plan is if youre playing some mono blue deck or a deck heavy on blue a lot of this stuff will not resolve. In my play group we have dealt with Zur time and time again and figured out that turns 1 - 3 are the best times to secure some kind of lasting advantage to power out a win in the late game. While youre still trying to get Zur out and having counter backup or protection packages we will likely already be winning the game. Not to mention if I know someone is trying to ramp into Zur which most players do im expecting to not let anything resolve in turns 1 - 4.
I really do like your idea and it definately is solid trying to blow up their lands and go to town with Zur. I think you need more LD cards like Dust Bowl, Ghost Quarter and more discard Since Mind Twist is banned Mind Shatter could be good. Putting out a players gas seems like a good strategy for that deck. Good luck with the testing. ;] You have some pretty good deckbuilding skills!
so...hrm. i do use replenish and retether just in case someone plays enchantment hate...which a lot of people do. (because most artifact hate comes with enchantment hate) the tutors that i use are vampiric, mystical, demonic, and beseech the queen. i run both vanishing and diplomatic immunity. (just in case they happen to get around one) i run squelch, trickbind and stifle for mindslaver and the like. i also run arcane laboratory since one spell a turn with something like memory lapse or lapse of certainty is awesome. i use envelop since it counters any wrath effects for 1 blue. i also use annul to counter first turn tops and sol rings and such. i think i run about 26 counterspells total, including the ones that counter abilities. i can put out a full decklist if anyone would like. my zur is pretty damn unbeatable 1v1. lemme know.
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Zur is often considered a top choice in EDH duels, but suffers a lot of hate in multiplayer. This thread is about creating a Zur list ready and able to take up that challenge – fighting everyone at once and still having a decent shot at winning.
I was inspired to write this by cr87's excellent Arcum Dagsson primer, which also focuses on multiplayer control and game winning locks like Winter Orb. This too will be a lengthy post and not for the faint of heart! Having browsed most of what's available online and made some tough cuts, I've arrived at a list that is still very open for debate. I will go through all the key ingredients I think a Zur list should contain, and discuss what I consider the best choices for each category, and also on cards that were considered but didn't make the final cut. Your input is highly appreciated and will contribute to making one of the strongest Zur lists ever!
Control Locks
Protecting yourself by locking the board with permanents is typically a bad strategy in multi-player EDH, because chances are that one of your opponents will have an answer and remove the offending permanent. However, Zur can help this by using Greater Auramancy and Copy Enchantment (which has many other uses too) to make all enchantments untargetable. It's also easy to recur enchantments for encore appearances using Mistveil Plains or the awesome Replenish.
One of the best locks available is Mana Vortex, which is kinda like a Braids, Cabal Minion that gets right to the juicy bits – the lands - making it more difficult for opponents to do anything about the situation, or indeed do anything at all. You really don't need your lands that much with an active Zur, since you can win the game with him and his fetches alone. Similar effects include Contamination and Desolation, but both are more of a hassle than Mana Vortex. Additional mana denial is rarely worth it (with the exception of Catastrophe below), as it is win more with an active Zur, and typically counter-productive when you don't have Zur.
Another protective enchantment I think is worth running is Solitary Confinement, which does an immensly better job of keeping you alive than say Ghostly Prison/Propaganda which are too easy to circumvent for a large table. It also shields you from pain lands and artifacts. The many and powerful draw effects that will be discussed below make the upkeep irrelevant. Finally, I'd also include Prison Term. Some decks are severely shut down by having their general locked on the board, and auramancy makes this hard to deal with even if the get help from other players. Can even stop something nasty with haste causing trouble as you can move it around to suit your needs.
Sweepers
Clearing the board of creatures at even intervals is the best defense available in addition to the enchantment locks. One of the best sweepers for Zur is Catastrophe, since it clears the board for defense when you don't have Zur, or makes it difficult for opponents to handle Zur by destroying mana if he is on the table. Wrath of God and Damnation have a low casting cost meaning you can sweep the turn after an attempted Zur if he gets countered, or have enough mana to Vanish him and sweep fairly early in the game. Hallowed Burial costs one more, but is still worth it considering the crippling effect on opponents. I'd also run Austere Command as it too can bypass Zur and also handle artifacts or even enchantments depending on board position. Finally, Decree of Pain is simply too broken to pass up even if it does cost 8 mana.
That's six sweepers, which should be sufficient considering the other answers you'll be running (as well as tutors and draw). There are many more options that I decided against. Final Judgement costs more and makes it more difficult for you to reanimate creatures after a sweep. The bonus tokens from Martial Coup and Kirtar's Wrath are hardly enough to merit the increased mana cost. Plague Wind also seems overcosted for a deck with so few creatures.
Stealing and Reanimation
To complement your sweepers, I suggest running a stealing and reanimation package. This is the most efficient way to fight multiple opponents as you use their creatures against them, and can be sure to always have the toughest hombre from the battlefield or graveyards on your side. Stealing or reanimating after a sweeper also makes it harder for your opponents to recover. Keiga, the Tide Star is one of the most efficient stealing effects, as you can probably trade with a pretty big dude and then steal another. Plus it's always a threat - something this deck rarely cares about though.
[CARD]
Desertion[/CARD] and Spelljack are excellent answers to high cc or recast generals, but work equally well for stealing a random fatty to give you some quick defense. I'd also recommend Bribery and Acquire. At the very least, both of these will net you a discounted Duplicant (and important deck information) since everybody runs those. But typically you'll be able to find something better. Thus, I see little reason to run your own Duplicant as it pales in comparison to these and Draining Whelk (should also be run) which will usually end up being bigger, and also puts the base creature in the graveyard available for reanimation. I also like Treachery, which lets you steel the actual creature for free. I'm generally against creature stealing auras since the stolen creature will return to your opponent once the enchantment is destroyed, but for no mana investment I think it's totally worth it. Blatant Thievery is reasonably priced even for duels, and only becomes more ridiculous in multiplayer. Something I decided against is Memnarch. Though he's a house in Arcum what with the acceleration and being an artifact creature, he's just too much of a mana investment. If you pay 7 for him and another 7 next round to steal a dude, chances are someone will wrath and you'll loose 2 turns having accomplished almost nothing. Kinda like the entire table taking a free Time Stretch on you.
We also need some reanimation, but not too much as we don't want to be sitting with dead cards in hand when there is a lack of good targets. Beacon of Unrest, Debtors' Knell and Necromancy (fetchable with Zur) all have merit. I don't think more than that is needed, so I'll forgo less optimal options for this deck (Puppeteer's Clique, Animate Dead etc.).
Spot Removal
In general, this is a no-no. We can't afford to run something like Swords to Plowshares, because it will accomplish too little at a large table. Only removal that can be fetched, recurred etc. make the cut. First pick is Aura of Silence. It slows down all opponents and sacrifices (to be recurred and used again if needed, for example with Mistveil Plains) when we need to deal with a problem artifact or enchantment. Second pick is Seal of Doom. Its primary use is to procure reanimation targets such as green fatties, but could also kill a general in a pinch.
Finally, I'd also include the dynamic duo of Oblivion Ring and Capsize. Both are strong on their own, but when combined, you can exile any non-land permanent for 9 mana repeatedly, and it will never return (you Capsize your own Ring with the CIP trigger on the stack). That's a pretty strong option to have in the late game. Of course, there will also be some land spot removal in the mana base, supported by Weathered Wayfarer and Crucible of Worlds.
Counters
The two stealing counters have already been discussed above, but I think it's prudent to run a few more to protect Zur before he can protect himself. Mana Drain is a no-brainer, since it's like mana ramp with a free counter. Force of Will and Misdirection also make a fantastic job of protecting Zur for no mana as he is cast. Finally, I think there's merit to running Hinder since it can mess with some generals so well, but I could see cutting it.
Zur Buffs
Many Zur lists differ on what kind and amount of Zur enhancers they run. For protection, the most important one is Vanishing since it dodges spot removal and sweepers alike for only UU. Most will include Diplomatic Immunity too, but I think it's a waste of space and a wasted fetch. What if the table responds with a sweeper instead if you fetch immunity first? And would someone actually target a vanishing Zur with removal only to see it wasted and have Zur return ready to attack next turn? I think Vanishing is suffient, considering the added protection from Lightning Greaves as well.
Number two is making Zur unblockable. There are really two options here – Steel of the Godhead and Unquestioned Authority. You do need life gain, but that can also be had from Daybreak Coronet (and after M10, multiple instances of lifelink won't apply). Finally, there is Empyrial Armor and Battle Mastery to consider, to give Zur that extra oomph. I think the tightest package to run is simply Steel of the Godhead and Empyrial Armor. Steel gives unblockability, lifelink and a small power boost in one card! Empyrial Armor is like a permanent Might of Oaks considering your draw power. Battle Mastery would add to the life gain/kill speed and all, but since Copy Enchantment on Empyrial Armor will do almost exactly the same thing, I feel little reason to include it. Unquestioned Authority offers too little extra to be considered (though the cantrip is nice), and Daybreak Coronet only really adds vigilance (and a small power boost), which shouldn't be needed anyway.
Alternate Wins
Zur will most often win by dealing general damage, but it doesn't hurt to have a back up. Magister Sphinx enables us to win aggro style, when combined with stolen or reanimated creatures. It's the only actual ”threat” I think this deck should run, though in truth we care more about the CIP ability than the fact that it's a creature.
Now for the trashing of some combo wins. Probably the strongest combo Zur could run is Stuffy Doll + Guilty Conscience + Flickerform, since this lets you kill players for 2WW and two of the parts tutor with Zur. There are two problems with this though. Firstly, I think it's win more. If I have the luxury of using Zur fetches to pimp out my doll, I could already be dominating the board in so many other ways. Secondly, the combo forces me to run three subpar cards with little use unto themselves. There are many, many examples of this in other combos too (like Power Artifact and Grim Monolith), but since none of them will to better than this I see little reason to run any other either.
Second Chance recursion and taking infinite turns is yet another combo I've opted to ditch, because it requires too much set up. You need Mistveil Plains for recursion and typically Necropotence to get you to 5 life (my arguments against necro below), and then some form of protection so nobody instant speed kills you when you're at 5 life (like Solitary Confinment). Plus you need to untap with Second Chance, giving everybody a chance to stop you. Finally, there's the ol' Mindslaver + Academy Ruins. I don't think the effect is worth the mana cost, but ruins should probably be run anyway for utility. If there are any more absolute combo ”musts” that I've missed, let me know.
Zur's Other Tricks
To recur lost goodies, we will run Replenish (I don't think Retether is worth it, considering Zur has Vanishing). As most of our other recursion is in lands, Crucible of Worlds seems prudent, and goes well with Mana Vortex/Catastrophe. We'll also want Lightning Greaves to haste and protect Zur, and of course Yawgmoth's Will. For a control deck that aims to fight the entire board, I also think Beacon of Immortality has merit. It can make a huge difference even if we don't have Zur, and make us neigh untouchable after a few attacks with a godheaded Zur. Life gain is important not only for fighting multiple opponents, but also because the deck tends to use life as a resource to get mana and cards. Graveyard hate and handling activated abilities are still glaring holes in our repertoire! Voidmage Husher and Stonecloaker take care of that, and might just be the best cards in EDH for the job.
Tutors
To tailor our control repertoire, we need a few tutors and there are many to choose from in Zur's colors. My selection criteria is 1) no more than 2 mana (excludes Mystical Teachings, Intuition among others), as I think 3+ mana risks being too much when combined with the tutor target 2) no sorcery speed card disadvantage tutors (such as Personal Tutor), since you'll often have to wait too long for the target and 3) not overly narrow tutors that only have few targets (example: Steelshaper's Gift, Merchant Scroll). This leaves me with: Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, Mystical Tutor.
I also include Weathered Wayfarer, since he's a reusable land tutor for 1 mana. Naturally, Land Tax makes the cut for the same reason. I don't think neither Tithe nor the added threat potential of Eternal Dragon are worth it here, even though they do offer some mana fixing. I'd rather be running more artifact acceleration like signets and talismans than those. I don't really count Tolaria West as a tutor, but I think it should be run as well.
Card Draw
There are so many options for card drawing, and I keep going back and forth on some options. The ones I've picked are Phyrexian Arena, Rhystic Study, Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top. The ones I've considered but not included are Standstill, Necropotence, Mind's Eye, Memory Jar, Fact or Fiction and Syphon Mind. Phyrexian Arena is always solid and great for Solitary Confinement. Rhystic Study is better than Standstill for multiplayer, while the reverse is true for duels. Anyway, Rhystic works well with Aura of Silence and Mana Vortex. Scroll Rack puts enchantments in your hand back in your library (so Zur can get them) and replaces them with something better, and both it and SDT are excellent with the shuffling. All of them are cheap (or free) to cast/use and easy to recur/protect, making them a nightmare for opponents. Having Necropotence in your deck is a good way to get yourself killed if you get hit by Mindslaver (a common inclusion in some of the toughest decks for you to beat), and there's really no reason but greed to go through the hassle of Necropotence. The other cuts were simply to expensive for their effect when compared to the others.
Acceleration
We want to have Zur attacking by turn 4 in as many games as possible. As a reference value, 17-18 acceleration effects is needed in a 100 card deck to achieve this in 80% of all games. However, this would include also all tutors that can get any acceleration piece in a timely fashion. With Academy Ruins and Tolarian Academy available in our colors, I see no reason to go light on artifact mana. However, we shouldn't go overboard and bring everything in. For example, there's not much use in acceleration that doesn't help us accelerate Zur (like Coalition Relic). For ”post Zur” mana acceleration, I prefer to rely on lands like Tolarian Academy, Serra's Sanctum and Ancient Tomb.
First picks are the three signets and the two talismans in our colors, since they both boost and fix mana. Lightning Greaves has already been mentioned, and Hall of the Bandit Lord should also be included and can be found by wayfarer. Of course, we'll also want Sol Ring and Mana Crypt. That's 9 effects so far, and with the 4 tutoring effects that work, this gives us 13 sources of acceleration, but we wanted at least 4 more! I think the top picks are Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, Mind Stone and the hidden gem that is Copy Artifact. In multiplayer, a turn 2 Copy Artifact is extremely likely to be at least a ”Fellwar Stone”, and it has so many more uses later in the game than simply being an acceleration piece.
Lands
Zur rewards a stable mana base that can afford to run pain lands (thanks to life gain and Solitary Confinement) but not many CIPT lands. We'll promptly add the four onslaught fetches (all except Wooded Foothills), the three vintage duels and the three ”pay 2 life” duels. We also add the three pain lands and the three laundry lands from Shadowmoor block. As for ”any mana” lands, the drawbacks of City of Brass, Glimmervoid and Forbidden Orchard are not very significant in this deck, and I'd also run Tendo Ice Bridge as you'll probably only really need the mana fix once. This gives us 20 multi-colored mana sources!
For non-basic single color sources, Tolarian Academy and Serra's Sanctum will help with acceleration. Flagstones of Trokair works very well with Mana Vortex and Crucible. Mistveil Plains and Tolaria West both offer enough utility to merit the CIPT clause. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is also too good to pass up. I don't think the land cyclers are any good, as we already have excellent card draw and we'd rather avoid the CIPT clause. That's 6 more lands!
As for colorless lands, I think it's sufficient to only run Strip Mine, since we have Crucible, Wayfarer, Tolaria West and other tutors as well. It's probably good to have at least one manland for the same reason, and the best is probably Mishra's Factory (I prefer it over Faerie Conclave). Then there is Academy Ruins which I think is highly worth it, whereas I'll pass on Volrath's Stronghold and just use reanimation instead (I don't run many creatures of my own anyway). Though we pay a dear price for using it, I still think Hall of the Bandit Lord is worth it in Zur (and you can always sac it to Mana Vortex when no longer needed). Miren, the Moaning Well should probably be included too, as the deck is highly dependent on life gain and a sacrificial outlet can be useful if things go wrong. Finally, Ancient Tomb gives us a little extra acceleration, and is so much better than Temple to the False God which sits useless in hand for the first four land drops. That's another 6 lands!
Finally, we need a few basics to support Land Tax. Land Tax will only really be fetched together with Scroll Rack, or if mana fixing is badly needed. Thus, we don't need many basics to support it, but I think one each of the basics and the snow-covered basics will be pretty optimal (to piggy back on others' Extraplanar Lenses etc). That's 6 basics, for a total of 38 lands.
And now to sum up, the proposed deck list in its entirety:
1 Zur the Enchanter
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Draining Whelk
1 Stonecloaker
1 Voidmage Husher
//Enchantments (18)
1 Vanishing
1 Steel of the Godhead
1 Empyrial Armor
1 Mana Vortex
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Prison Term
1 Aura of Silence
1 Seal of Doom
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Copy Enchantment
1 Copy Artifact
1 Land Tax
1 Rhystic Study
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Necromancy
1 Treachery
1 Debtors' Knell
//Artifacts (14)
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scroll Rack
1 Dimir Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Azorius Signet
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Mind Stone
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Mana Drain
1 Hinder
1 Desertion
1 Spelljack
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Capsize
1 Beacon of Immortality
//Sorceries (13)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Bribery
1 Aquire
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Replenish
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Austere Command
1 Catastrophe
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Decree of Pain
//Lands (38)
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Mystic Gate
1 Fetid Heath
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Caves of Kollos
1 Underground River
1 City of Brass
1 Glimmervoid
1 Forbidden Orchard
1 Tendo Ice Bridge
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins
1 Strip Mine
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
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I appreciate the effort you put into this, and overall it looks pretty good. I'm not really certain how much sense it makes to try to cutting-edge maximize an EDH deck for multiplayer though, considering what a huge impact politics have a game. You might be able to lock everyone out and win sometimes, but if you do, you'll be ganged up on first every game. I don't think you can win more games than you lose like this (though that depends on how many people you play with, and a hundred other variables...).
In some ways, I think Phelddagrif, or any number of other random generals, would be more competitve multiplayer generals, just because they won't get you hated on so hard. I mean, I read a report of a big multiplayer game by Bennie Smith recently. He was playing Norin the Wary...yeah. He wasn't even playing the one card that goes really well with it (Confusion in the Ranks), because he thought it would get too confusing in a big game. His general was completely useless, his deck was mostly useless, and he still won the game, mostly because he wasn't perceived as a major threat. I'm not sure this kind of strategy will help you out very much.
Other than that comment, which is more about the mindset than the deck, my one major critique of your list is that it has too many high-cost cards. These cards are great in a vacuum, but don't play into Zur's strategy at all. Most games with Zur tend to be about the same...you get him into play and attacking as soon as possible. Succeed in this, and you probably win, so long as you can keep protecting him. You don't need anything to win at this point. I can't see why I'd want to tap out for something like Blatant Thievery, when I could keep mana for counterspells/Vanishing up instead, and ensure that my win condition is safe.
You may say "Most games go like that, but not all of them. Blatant Thievery and co. are for when Zur can't get in there." This is a valid point...but wouldn't those card slots be better spend helping Zur get there?
Look at it this way...what stops Zur?
1) lots of counterspells/removal,
2) mana/color screw,
3) tappers/pacifisms,
4) Hinder/Condemn effects.
There are other possible problems, but I can't think of anything else that sees any play at all.
What are the best answers to these?
1) more counterspells, especially cheap ones. Counterspells are always good to have--Zur can afford to keep mana open all the time after he's in play, so you'll always have mana open to counter potential problems, so long as you have enough counterspells. Cheap counterspells are especially valuable because they can help you force Zur through.
Mana denial is also a good option to deal with counterspells.
2) Short of cards like Sacred Ground or Karmic Justice, you've got all the options to beat land destruction. The most likely scenario is that you randomly get manascrewed or colorscrewed sometimes--maximizing your lands that tap for colored mana and running more artifacts that can produce any color will help you out here.
3) a few versatile removal spells can handle this. These effects can usually slow you down a few turns, but not stop you.
4) these suck for you. Counterspells help sometimes, but your best option are the tutors that can find Zur. You only run 2...there are several more good tutors you could be running.
So...if plan A doesn't work, you want to have counterspells, mana denial, consistent mana, versatile removal, and tutors. You have so many expensive spells that you never want to cast with Zur in play...and yet they don't really help you win if Zur isn't in play.
One of my most-tuned EDH decks is Sharuum the Hegemon. It's full of explosive artifact mana, and tends to lock the game up one way or another within the first 4 or 5 turns. Zur is a similar style of general in my opinion--less resilient to hate, but faster and more consistent. In my Sharuum list, I've grown away from any cards that aren't good in my opening hand, because odds are that if I don't see them there, I won't ever see them--the deck is that fast. I suspect that Zur is a lot like Sharuum in this respect, except even more so--you don't have the explosive mana artifacts I do, so any big clunky spells in your hand are even more useless, for longer. These cards slow you down, detract from your good starts, and don't help your bad starts--and you have a LOT of them. Beacon of Immortality (so little synergy with this deck anyhow), Keiga, Debtor's Knell, Bribery, Blatant Thievery, Beacon of Unrest, and Decree of Pain all probably fit this description. Magister Sphinx, Voidmage Husher, Treachery, Acquire, and Yawgmoth's Will (blasphemy, I know) are borderline as well. These cards don't play very nicely with Zur, they detract from your killer starts, and they don't do enough to advance your gameplan, with or without Zur in play. If you replaced all these cards with counterspells, mana sources, and tutors, your deck would be significantly more consistent.
I'll go through and comment on some individual card choices later, but for a positive note, here are some cards I think you should consider adding.
Armageddon/Ravages of War
There is no part of these cards that doesn't not work well in this deck. They're easy to cast. They're very powerful in multiplayer. After Zur, they seal your victory, before Zur, they can help beat control decks that can otherwise give you problems. Compare these to Mana Vortex...sure you can tutor Mana Vortex, but it's still going to take the Vortex 4 turns to kill 4 lands. Armageddon will kill all those lands immediately, and works great with Mana Vortex too, to really lock people down. Finally, you're already running all the cards that help you recover from Armageddon--Crucible of Worlds, Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, Flagstones of Trokair...I really can't think of a single good reason not to run these.
Tutors: Grim Tutor and Imperial Seal are great, if you can get them. Clutch of the Undercity should absolutely be in here: it's versatile removal AND a tutor. In addition to finding nice cards like Armageddon, Wrath of God, or Replenish, it gets you Zur back if he gets shuffled into your deck somehow. You should probably toss in Vindicate while you're at it. Also, look at fitting in some more counterspells and other blue cards--Force of Will and Misdirection are great, but your blue spells count is really much too low to make them work consistently. I think Arcane Laboratory might be very good here, though it's probably better in duels.
Artifact acceleration: Coldsteel Heart is probably worthwhile here...it accelerates you into Zur and gets whatever color you need. It's probably more effective colorfixing than Talismans/Signets. Even though it doesn't directly accelerate you into Zur, stuff like Coalition Relic and Darksteel Ingot are probably worthwhile as well, just for keeping up with other players' mana, and supporting you a bit after Armageddon.
Karoo lands: Azorius Chancery, Dimir Aqueducts, Orzhov Basilica. Despite the risk of Wasteland, these are probably worthwhile. They let you keep 2 land hands, fix your mana effectively, and, most importantly, reduce your land count. This is very important to make sure Weathered Wayfarer and Land Tax work effectively early on--you don't want to have to miss a land drop to get them going. Speaking of Land Tax, I really think you need at least 2-3 more basic lands to get good enough use out of it. I see a bunch of lands you can cut, focusing on the ones that only make colorless--Academy Ruins is bad here, especailly now that Gifts Ungiven is banned...you have very little worth returning with it. I have a lot of experience with Tolarian Academy, and I don't think you've got enough artifacts to really make it work for you. It'll screw you over sometimes, and getting 2-3 blue mana from it in other situations probably isn't worth the risk. Glimmervoid is just bad. I won't even run it in Sharuum, where I have like 50 artifacts--your 15 sure as hell aren't enough.
I'll have more comments soon...I'm sure I'll think of some more cards to add, and there are a bunch of cards I think should be cut. You need to be very careful in what makes the grade in this deck--cards that would be good in any other deck aren't necessarily here, if they don't fulfill a particular need for the deck. For instance, you mentioned how insanely good Standstill is in duels in the Arcum thread...except I don't think Standstill is worth running, even in duels. Even if you treat it as just automatically drawing you 3 cards when tutored with Zur, 3 cards isn't worth the Zur tutor, because Zur doesn't really need more cards in hand. That's a waste of an attack with Zur. To make this deck as strong as possible, you should be looking at all your cards specifically for how they interact with Zur.
Oh, I'm totally with you on this reasoning. That's why I play Lin Sivvi. This list is purely theoretical optimization and not something I would play, let alone go out and buy the cards for. But the entire idea with this thread was to just say, "meh - I'm gonna go for all out power, fight you all simultaneously, and good luck trying to stop me." I'm not convinced it will work or produce more multiplayer wins than incorporating diplomacy into your strategy But the only two generals that I think are capable of a "screw you ALL approach" is Zur and Arcum, and cr87 had already done Arcum so I felt Zur needed his spot in the multiplayer sun.
That's exactly what I'd say, and to answer your question, I assume there is an optimum balance between cards that help force Zur and cards that are solid regardless of Zur. I'll go more into this in your 4 categories.
1) If you tap out to cast Zur (like turn 3), only FoW and Misdirection can protect him (not counting Pact of Negation which I think is too risky). If you wait until you have - say - 7 mana to back him up with a Hinder, you have ample time to play those big spells, but the problem with this is that you're sitting at a multi-player table. If 2 of your 4 opponents have answers, and you only have one counter to back him up, that counter was essentially wasted. That's why I just try to cast Zur a.s.a.p. If I happen to have FoW, good, if not and Zur dies before grabbing Vanishing, I just play other spells until I can try again. I already run 6 counters and the concept of countering is itself weak in multiplayer.
2-4) The suggested modifications could all be made, as long as the multi-player potency isn't weakened. I might add that any creature sweeper is essentially an out to Zur getting board locked, and that there is already Capsize, Aura and ORing to deal with problems, and that additional tutors under 4) will also improve grabbing answers for 3).
I could definetely see replacing some of the more mana intensive cards with tutors and artifact mana. The reason I excluded most Geddon effects was that they would only be useful once Zur was already up and running, and at that point I already have Vanishing to protect him. Without Zur, blowing up lands would most likely mean a board position where my opponents have a lot more threats than I do, and neither of us will have much opportunity to do something about it. That's why Catastrophe is so good, because it can have that useful (if slightly win-more) effect if Zur is active, but also sweeps creatures if I'm in a bad position. I suppose Cataclysm could also be considered for the same reason, since it comes with a Zur hole in it? Another better option than geddon/ravages is probably Sunder. Pretty nasty with Empyrial Armor.
Btw, what are your general thoughts on sweeping/stealing/reanimation in multiplayer? Is it the best strategy to stay alive against multiple opponents, or is it better to have I WIN cards (like Test of Endurance - taken only as an example) that you try to protect?
While it doesn't hurt to look, I think one "interaction" you will need to prepar for is Zur not being on the board or getting to use him. It will happen. Is a card that says "1U, draw three cards" so good in 1v1 in such a situation that it makes the 100 card cut? Probably. The fact that you can abuse it with Zur is pure gravy.
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I agree with a previous poster that Tolarian Academy and Academy Ruins are generally not worth it. I run similar artifact mana to yours, and I even run Mind's Eye, but I find myself always having something better to do with my mana than recurring them.
Also, Reliquary Tower should be in any EDH deck, especially one with Empyrial Armor.
Finally, I personally like to run more creature based threats in case Zur gets hated to the point of being unplayable. In addition to Magister Sphinx, which is completely broken in duels, I run Angel of Despair, Memnarch (to counter Forcefield, which is common in EDH in my area), and Sundering Titan (because in larger games, I can always avoid hitting myself with it due to the number of duals people play).
-Laquatus
Former username: Laquatus
Wait, wait....you're going to not run the most powerful unbanned card in the format...in a deck whose general can tutor it directly into play....because...you might get mindslavered? Seriously???
Your selection criteria is pretty arbitrary...There's no need to exclude teachings, for example; it's an instant! You can pass the turn without spending any mana, counter something if needed, and if not, then tutor away right before untapping. Anything that can get force of will in your hand will help you stick zur, which is what this deck lives or dies on. Ditto on what Khymera said about imperial seal et al.
The ideal way to play this deck isn't just to run zur out turn 3 and hope your opponents have nothing. It's to use tutors and/or luck to get force of will, misdirection, pact, daze (yes, even daze) into your hand, and then play him with protection. How many removal spells (playable by turn 4) do you think each opponent is playing in their decks? Maybe 5 cards per deck on average? Giving 3 such opponents 1 extra draw before casting zur only only offers a 16% chance that an opponent has drawn a removal spell they didn't have before. Even taking 2 extra turns has a 71% chance of them drawing blanks. If you counter one removal spell and a second opponent has another, congrats, you've got one less removal spell to contend with the next time you cast zur.
ugh, this logic is so bad I don't even want to argue it right now. But I'll try.
I assume you're basing that statement on the following logic: In a multiplayer game with, say, 5 players, your opponents collectively draw 4 cards every turn while you only draw one, so trading one of yours for one of your opponents still leaves 3 unanswered. You're trading your entire turn's worth of resources for 1/4th of your collective opposition's resources for the turn. Thus, 1 for 1s are bad, right?
Here's the thing. Every card played only has a 1 in 4 chance of victimizing you more than the caster's other opponents. You don't have to answer every card drawn by an opponent! Only the ones they're going to use against you. The "1-for-1=bad" logic is applicable to discard effects, but with counterspells you get to see who the victim is before choosing whether or not you want to counter it. Do you want to counter swords to plowshares? If it's targetting your zur, then yes...if it's targetting that other dude's kiki-jiki, then hellz no.
You can extend that logic. Any card that victimizes you will, almost by definition, already be costing you at least one card if it resolves. And usually, it's a card(s) you've already paid mana for, meaning you lose not only the card but also the tempo invested in it.
I mean really, if someone targets you with cruel ultimatum (meaning you're about to lose a creature and discard 3), are you going to argue that you should NOT counter it because that trade is 'merely a 1-for-1', and therefore not good enough for multiplayer?
Consider this too: if you have mana untapped, and people know you're packing countermagic, do you think that knowledge might impact the likelihood of them choosing you as the target for a spell like cruel ultimatum?
Counterspells are NOT bad in multiplayer. They're exactly the opposite of bad.
Nice post, Khymera. I disagree with trying to power down decks for multiplayer, but to each his own. Your technical analysis was spot-on except for one thing:
You don't run standstill as a zur tutor target. You run for the chance of top-decking ancestral recall.
If you have zur in play, and he survived long enough for you to untap, you don't need to wrath.
And as an aside, automatically getting vanishing first on zur everytime is not the correct play. In fact, the only time it is correct is if the only reason zur was able to attack was raw tempo (eg: people were tapped out and you gave him haste). Any situation where your opponents demonstrated that they don't have an immediate answer for zur, you should just get necropotence.
Agreed. Except you misspelled 'Necropotence'.
If that happens, you're going to lose anyway. You have invested deck-space in zur-related cards. Playing late-game bomb wars is going to heavily favor your opponents who've been able to commit their whole deck to that game-plan (or worse, game-plans of comparable power-level to zur that haven't been hated out of the game). You pretty much have to go all-in on zur.
Not 'might'; rather, you will inevitably get mindlsavered because most if not all blue generals run slaver and academy ruins (at least where I play). It is unlikely that you will be able to stop more than one such opponent from doing so in a large multiplayer game.
I personally don't find Necropotence that great in EDH. While Rhystic Study is far less powerful as a draw engine, it also is far less likely to attract the ire of your opponents: most of them won't mind your drawing another card every now and then (see also Mind's Eye), and with Study they can always pay extra to stop you, but they usually do mind when you abuse an overpowered bomb like 'potence.
Former username: Laquatus
And with necro in play, you'll have no trouble upkeeping solitary confinement, which makes you immune to slaver.
The ability to get rid of threatening opponent fast, in my opinion, outweights the chance of getting hit by a mindslaver early on and losing the game. Especially considering that a mindslaver early on is going to screw you over anyway - Wrathing zur and letting it stay on graveyard, for instance. You have exactly two cards to get it back: Necromancy and Debtor's Knell.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I still abide by the overall conclusion of the thread that politics matter more than power in a competitive multiplayer game. In short, Zur probably is a strictly single player general.
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Fetches
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Fetid Heath
2 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Underground River
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Darkwater Catacombs
1 River of Tears
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Meddling Mage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Mesmeric Fiend
Mana Acceleration
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mind Stone
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Azorius Signet
1 Dimir Signet
1 Mana Vault
Draw and Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Standstill
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Scroll Rack
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vampiric Tutor
Zur Package
1 Diplomatic Immunity
1 Empyrial Armor
1 Parallax Nexus
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence
1 Vanishing
1 Steel of the Godhead
1 Prison Term
1 Mana Vortex
1 Copy Enchantment
1 Remand
1 Force of Will
1 Hinder
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Leak
1 Misdirection
1 Mana Drain
1 Power Sink
1 Lost Hours
1 Duress
1 Addle
1 Castigate
1 Thoughtseize
Disruption to Stop my Opponent from Winning
1 Damnation
1 Wrath of God
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pongify
1 Vindicate
Game Sealers
1 Cataclysm
1 Sunder
1 Parallax Tide
1 Replenish
1 Ravages of War
1 Armageddon
Equipment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Lightning Greaves
After some playtesting, here are some results:
Cuts I want to make,
Wrath of God
Damnation
Replenish
Some combination of Steel of the Godhead and/or Empyrial Armor
Scroll Rack
Adds
Mistveil Plains
Daybreak Coronet
Planar Void
Declaration of Naught
Bottomless Pit (?)
Not a bad 1v1 Deck especially for one with the B&R changing most of the short game. I would address a few of the changes you made with some of your cuts and adds. Taking out Wrath and Damnation is not a good idea. Scroll Rack is good in Zur just not this type of Zur I think... Scroll Rack is better in a blue based Zur so good Choice. You never take out the Armor and theres Zurs "Supersuit"? Whats wrong with a Morphling that has Zurs ability? So far the best multiplayer as well as 1v1 Zur deck had a specific Zur setup that locks you up after the first few turns he is out then procedes to filter through the deck and just kind of counter and mess with your mana base till Zur delivers the death stroke. It was really really good and it was definately cause for us to all go after him on game 2 cause he beat a 4 player EDH game in the first 6 turns lol
Empyrial Armor - has the potential for the largest +power bonus of any enchant, however the deck empties its hand VERY quickly, so to start off its bonus is sometimes small. Post armagedon it grows decently even from an empty hand.
Steel of the Godhead - the evasion has proven to be never relevant, the lifelink is rarely useful, but occasionaly relevant.
Daybreak Coronet - +3 is higher than steel, coronet is better vs creature attacks (lifelink + vigiliance and first strike to make Zur usable on defense). MAJOR draw back is that if you draw Coronet, it will almost never got on Zur since aura #1 on zur is always Diplomatic Immunity.
Pemmin's Aura - TBH I have not tested this for one major reason, my #1 goal is to play Zur -> Armageddon. If I were to run Pemmin's Aura, it would be becuase it allows me not to run Diplomatic Immunity. If I resolve an Armageddon post zur I would want to tutor out DI, since DI is not in my deck becuase I ran Pemmin's Aura instead, I would be very upset. In a deck not as focused on land destruction as this one, Pemmin's gets much better, but not for this deck.
That leaves us running with some combination of the following:
Steel of the Godhead
Empyrial Armor
Daybreak Coronet
I havnt decided with combination of two works best yet, and atm I still juggle between the three.
My typical game plan is as follows, in order of priority:
Pre-Zur
#1 Duress out answers to zur
#2 Mana ramp
#3 Counter anything relevant if I cant do #1 or #2
Post Zur
#1 If I have armageddon in hand, cast armageddon. Zur out Diplomatic Immunity, GG.
#2 If I have no armageddon in hand, Zur out Mana Vortex, and then Diplomatic Immunity.
#3 If they have there general in play (and it's relevant, ie Rofellos, Arcum etc) Prison Term, then proceed as above.
#4 If the have a must answer threat, answer using Oblivion Ring / Aura of Silence etc.
Generally speaking, I try never to cast Zur into an un-duressed hand without Force of Will backup.
My issue with *** and Damnation is as follows, it is not creatures attacking and racing me that cause me to lose, rather it is generals with OP abilities such Rofellos or Arcum etc. Thus I think more cheap spot removal is better suited, rather than board wipes. Also the fact that Wrath and Damnation are essentially dead post Zur is another knock against them.
Actually, I don't like O-ring in the format at all. Suppose an opponent gets something nasty out and you O-ring it. Later, someone uses disk, O-stone, austere, akroma's vengeance, jokulhaups, whatever...and presto the board is wiped except that one opponent now has the advantage of a nasty threat already in play. You've just invested a card and some tempo into protecting an opponent's threat for him/her. In multiplayer EDH, thanks to the heavy use of sweepers, all non-land permanents have limited life-span (and in some metas, lands too). That means O-ring is sort of like boomerang, or delay...it just stalls for time, which isn't as good as the wicked hard removal white already has (plow, path, return to dust, etc).
I suppose it's justifiable in some 1v1 decks.
I heavily advocate for empyrial armor and steel of the godhead as your eventual finisher plan. Just get necro if your hand size is small. Being empty handed is a problem for far bigger reasons than dimished pump potential, and is something you'll likely want to address before going for the throat anyway.
Why pongify over say, path to exile?
Regarding O-ring in a generic 1v1 edh deck. The sweepers you speak of are not run due to being to slow, so its essentially vindicate #2.
Regarding O-Ring in multiplayer edh, I agree I dont like it either.
Necropotence is banned under the banlist I am using, so that synergy is out.
IMO the most important targets for cheap creature spot removal are the generals that are cast turns 1-3 and are game ending if not answered. Rofellos, Arcum etc etc. Killing a general essentially turns your removal spell into a Remand, card advantage loss to you, but tempo loss of them. The tempo loss from your opponent comes from the fact that they now need 2 more mana to cast there general, as well as his original cost. Path to Exile putting a land into play negates a signifigant portion of the tempo gain of using spot removal on a general.
TLDR: Pongify on a t2 Rofellos keeps him off the board longer than a Path to Exile on the same Rofellos.
I really do like your idea and it definately is solid trying to blow up their lands and go to town with Zur. I think you need more LD cards like Dust Bowl, Ghost Quarter and more discard Since Mind Twist is banned Mind Shatter could be good. Putting out a players gas seems like a good strategy for that deck. Good luck with the testing. ;] You have some pretty good deckbuilding skills!
EDH
UWBZur the EnchanterBWU