MTG Salvation

Good Morning

This is the second EDH deck I've ever made. This deck is designed for budget, 1 vs 1, casual play. I think I've got the mana fixing where I want it at, though I'm still having some trouble with the potency of the creatures and spells. My goal was to abuse the elemental's Evoke ability with lot's of graveyard recursion. Is there any "should have" and "should not have" cards to further abuse the mechanic? I've also sub-themed a steal mechanic as my control instead of the usual counter or burn. Should I be modifying this further to increase my control?

Any sugestions would be greatly appriciated!!

All my decks try to adhere to these guidelines:
1) Be able to win.
2) Be mostly true to a flavor and a theme.
3) Be good against one or multiple opponents.
5) Be fun to pilot or to play against and interactive.
6) Have multiple paths to victory.
7) Have lots of cool interactions and synergy.
8) Play out differently every game to keep it fun over a long time.
9) Be streamlined and fast to play without excessive upkeep, time-consuming play or overcomplicated boardstates.
10) Integrate the Commanders abilities into the strategy at least a little, but be able to win without ever playing the commander.

As a note, the number in front of the card will denote CMC of the creature/spell.
Also, as another note, our meta plays with 40 life totals and no general damage.



Currently 101 cards in decklist.


Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated!

Good Morning

Didn't receive any suggestions or comments the first time around, so I updated the deck list the best way I thought possible.

Comments would greatly be appriciated.

Good Morning

Let's try this again...

I've play tested this deck a few times now and I've really been running into the problem of skimming the surface of my library. Not much recursion happens with Horde of Notions ability unless it's a creature that has been killed.

I'm in search for a little bit more recursion mechanic; specifically, some cards that will effectively dump a bunch of my elementals into my graveyard ready and willing to be recurred by my general. Any card suggestions?

Buried Alive and Intuition are great in my Horde deck. They're just generally good spells but they really shine with Horde as the general. Stir the Grave and Scourge of the Nobilis are two of the first cards that I would cut from your list.

What do people think about Ball Lightning and Groundbreaker for my elemental tribal deck? I can recur them easily enough with my general, but I'm more curious as to having the mana available to cast them. I ussually have enough R....I feel I'd be shy with the G though.

Thoughts?

i saw you had a horde deck from your sig and decided to look.

Ive played with horde for years, he was my first general. To be perfectly honest there are not really that many elementals that are really worth recurring. i don't see Multani, maro-sorcerer on your list. Shapesharer, Avenger of Zandikar, fertalid, forgotten ancient, fulminator mage, and Living Inferno are all insane recurring elementals that are not featured on your list...

Spawnwrithe is good typically early or right after a wrath.

and where is crib swap? honestly best-elemental-card-EVER

steely resolve and seedborne muse should also see use in your deck

if you want to run non elementals use ashes of the fallen, but i dont think that's what you are going for.

trying to do a recursion theme with horde needs ALOT of mana, somthing your current deck will struggle with, i dont see nearly enough ramp for this kind of deck, with 35 lands you should have 10 ramp spells, where are they?

channel the suns doesn't belong in any edh deck, you are throwing away a card for ONE mana. if you cannot make 5 colours reliably by turn 5 or 6 your mana base needs help (see my swiss army deck's mana base for suggestions.) --generally though i would say that adding a green heavy mana base with lots of ramp spells that get you basics and having two basics of each colour should set you right for the most part. the alara trilands are good as are the ravinica bouncelands.

Over all though i have found that just chucking a bunch of elementals in a deck with horde generally is not very effective or competetive. elememntals just don't work as a tribal that way, not like goblins, elves, soldiers, etc. sure the general kinda makes it work but the cards don't work well with each other. what it boils down to is that you need to have a strong theme aside from the elementals. going control or combo or building some other theme is good (mine ended up morphing into a combo deck)

sorry for the heavy criticism but you asked for suggestions.

Quote from insertcleverphrasehere

i saw you had a horde deck from your sig and decided to look.

Ive played with horde for years, he was my first general. To be perfectly honest there are not really that many elementals that are really worth recurring. i don't see Multani, maro-sorcerer on your list. Shapesharer, Avenger of Zandikar, fertalid, forgotten ancient, fulminator mage, and Living Inferno are all insane recurring elementals that are not featured on your list...

Spawnwrithe is good typically early or right after a wrath.

and where is crib swap? honestly best-elemental-card-EVER

steely resolve and seedborne muse should also see use in your deck

if you want to run non elementals use ashes of the fallen, but i dont think that's what you are going for.

trying to do a recursion theme with horde needs ALOT of mana, somthing your current deck will struggle with, i dont see nearly enough ramp for this kind of deck, with 35 lands you should have 10 ramp spells, where are they?

channel the suns doesn't belong in any edh deck, you are throwing away a card for ONE mana. if you cannot make 5 colours reliably by turn 5 or 6 your mana base needs help (see my swiss army deck's mana base for suggestions.) --generally though i would say that adding a green heavy mana base with lots of ramp spells that get you basics and having two basics of each colour should set you right for the most part. the alara trilands are good as are the ravinica bouncelands.

Over all though i have found that just chucking a bunch of elementals in a deck with horde generally is not very effective or competetive. elememntals just don't work as a tribal that way, not like goblins, elves, soldiers, etc. sure the general kinda makes it work but the cards don't work well with each other. what it boils down to is that you need to have a strong theme aside from the elementals. going control or combo or building some other theme is good (mine ended up morphing into a combo deck)

sorry for the heavy criticism but you asked for suggestions.

Thank you for your response. I don't mind at all that you criticize my decklist; it's how it'll get better.

Shapesharer looks like a very interesting card. I'll have to add a copy of that to my decklist.

Avenger of Zendikar is above my price range, otherwise it most certainly would be included.

I had Fertilid in ver 1.0 and I actually removed it because of how slow it was. Perhaps that was a mistake and I should take another look at the card.

Spawnwrithe was another card that I used to have in my decklist, but was removed. I was never able to multiply it the way I wanted to, and my opponents considered it a very annoying threat all the time and removed it from the game. Will take another look at re-adding it though.

You missed my Crib Swap. It's under my 'control spells'; Definately agree; this card is worth it's weight in gold.

I only recently found out about Steely resolve. It looks like a wonderful card, though at a cost of $2.00 a pop, I may only get one copy and I think it's going to be going to my Wort deck.

The reason I've stayed away from lots of mana-ramp spells was to avoid having a heavy green dependance in the deck. I don't have many creatures or other spells that rely on green, so my mana base to case these mana-ramp spells wouldn't be there.

Overall I haven't had much problem with my manabase though....that Channel of the Suns has been a disappointment that. I recently aquired and tried it out, but I'm not impressed, I've found it to be a waste. It'll be coming out (mabye I'll replace it with Fertilid)

Compared to my original decklist (which you don't see), I've added a lot more destroy effects to the deck and have included a red steal-theme so that I can steal, abuse, and then sac my opponents creatures, ussually with more damage attached to it on the way out. That's been my plan anyways.

Nim Deathmantle + Sac Outlets is broken in half. The analogy I like to use is that it's a build-your-own Recurring Nightmare - a card which is banned for VERY good reason. Maybe Perilous Forays is a good sac outlet for fixing and ramp?

If you add more green based ramp like Kodama's Reach and those, you could use Emeria, the Sky Ruin as an uncounterable Debtor's Knell. If you go that route I'd add Vesuva, since it's already got a ton of utility, but having two emeria's is AWESOME.

Krosan Verge isn't very expensive, and it's ramp and fixing in the same card. It just gets better if you ever upgrade to shocklands.


Hall of the Bandit Lord might be sweet if you can tolerate the colorless land without messing up your manabase. Haste is SO good, especially for Spawnwrithe and other huge beaters.



I'd be seriously tempted to add stuff like Crystal Shard and Erratic Portal and make this a 5c blink style deck. Regardless, in that vein of thought, I'd add Stonecloaker. It's awesome, instant-speed graveyard hate, counters spot removal, and lets you get additional activations of your elementals.

Lastly, if you add Conspiracy you could recur all kinds of broken creatures with Horde. Titans, Eternal Witness, and other things like that.

sorry forgot how expensive Avenger became after it started getting used, i got mine early.

Yeah Fertalid is awesome, in some games my opponents have left me alone while i systematically put all the basics in my deck into play over several turns. I play multiplayer almost exclusively though, he might be a bit slow for 1v1.

sorry for missing the crib.

You did not say anything about Multani, maro-sorcerer if i did not make it clear, he is an elemental.

yeah if i were you i would go with the destruction theme further, cut a bunch of the elementals that you don't tend to waste the mana to reanimate. (if they are not generally worth reanimating they dont even need to be elementals and therefore kinda useless in the deck.) better to replace it with something better if you are only going to cast it once most of the time.

the elementals i am talking about that i would definitely cut are:
dust elemental --this guy seems kinda useful but only situationally, which is bad.
flickerwisp --not really insanely useful, at least momentary blink can also be used to dodge removal.
kulrath knight --better in decks based around this theme
mournwelk --too expensive to cast the first time. without a dredge mechanic this guy kinda sucks.
tar fiend also seems bad for the same reasons.
faultgrinder-- same reason, put in fulminator mage instead.

alot of the others are admittedly better in 1v1 than multiplayer like i am used to.

Quote from insertcleverphrasehere

sorry forgot how expensive Avenger became after it started getting used, i got mine early.

Yeah Fertalid is awesome, in some games my opponents have left me alone while i systematically put all the basics in my deck into play over several turns. I play multiplayer almost exclusively though, he might be a bit slow for 1v1.

sorry for missing the crib.

You did not say anything about Multani, maro-sorcerer if i did not make it clear, he is an elemental.

yeah if i were you i would go with the destruction theme further, cut a bunch of the elementals that you don't tend to waste the mana to reanimate. (if they are not generally worth reanimating they dont even need to be elementals and therefore kinda useless in the deck.) better to replace it with something better if you are only going to cast it once most of the time.

the elementals i am talking about that i would definitely cut are:
dust elemental --this guy seems kinda useful but only situationally, which is bad.
flickerwisp --not really insanely useful, at least momentary blink can also be used to dodge removal.
kulrath knight --better in decks based around this theme
mournwelk --too expensive to cast the first time. without a dredge mechanic this guy kinda sucks.
tar fiend also seems bad for the same reasons.
faultgrinder-- same reason, put in fulminator mage instead.

alot of the others are admittedly better in 1v1 than multiplayer like i am used to.

Good Morning

Sorry about only giving you half a response the other day; I didn't get a chance to go over all the cards. I'll try to finish now:

I knew Multani, Maro-Sorcerer is an elemental. I just didn't think he is that good of a card. His power/toughness is based on cards in hand, so he's only going to be around a 6/6 for starters. Yeah, he's got shroud, but that harms me more than it helps cause if he does get really big for some reason he's just a big vanilla beatstick. I could be very wrong about the guy, but those were just my initial thoughts on him...

Forgotten ancient looks like a gem though I'm not sure how well the decks recursion would work with his upkeep counter transfer ability. Generally I don't care if my creatures go the the graveyard because it'll help me in the end....even though he's just a beatstick, he does keep getting bigger if he's not dealt with. That gives him the edge over Multani, maro-sorcerer in my opinion.

Fulminator Mage was on my origional concept list for this deck but was initially cut because of cost. At the time I was trying to build the deck for under $1.00/card (back when the Canadian dollar was at 0.63 to the USD.) Things have changed a little since then and it's become quite the tempting purchase, especially with Hordes as general. Will have to consider him.

You're not the first person to tell me Living Inferno is worth the slot, though I'm a little confused as to why. Comparing it to Terminate, the 6 additional mana gives you the ability to target more than 1 creature and recur it from the graveyard at the cost of burning a max toughness of 8. It would be dynamite with vigillence, but not so sure as just a very expensive fatty. I'm obviously underating him, though I still don't see why...maybe I'll get a copy and try him out.

Onwards to your cut suggestions:

My elemental deck tries to abuse 'evoke' (at least that was my idea).

Creatures like Mournwhelk and Faultgrinder were meant to be evoked straight off with the ability to recur again later. I've decimated opponents by turn 4: evoking Mournwhelk Turn 5: Recuring Mournwhelk Turn 6:Flashing Mournwhelk. Perhaps not the greatest synergy and could probably go into a discard-themed deck instead, but it really only needs itself with Hordes in play and I can at get rid of 4 cards. A similar routine for Faultgrinder though I've been disappointed with that guy, despite the trample. I'll probably replace Faultgrinder with Fumgator Mage.

I'll have to agree, there are not many times when the Kulrath Knight has been useful. He'll probably get the axe.

Tarfiend doesn't get a lot of time to play. Expensive, but deadly. I can sac all my CITP creatures giving Hordes many many options for the future and drain my opponent into top-deck mode. The only problem I've really faced with this guy is that my opponent doesn't have many cards when a get this guy into play so he's usually been overkill for the win. I can see myself cutting him.

Flickerwisp has been amazing for me. True, you can't bounce a blocker like Momentary Blink can, but the abilty to remove a permanent from the game has changes the outcome of many battles. Flash would break this guy and I wish there was a way I could give it to him.

Other questions:

Since I have your ear; a couple more question if you don't mind...

I'm trying to decide between Timbermare and Thundermare??? I know it's situational, but in general it is usually better to keep the guy on the field or echo him off for recursion? (There is a 2 mana difference too in favour of [card]Timbermare[card])

Is Insurrection too broken of a card? As you can see I play many red stealy effects in this deck, but I'm wondering if Insurrection goes too far and my opponents will just roll their eyes everytime I play it....

Thanks for the help

ps: @cag08055....I'll try to respond to you in the next one...

i like your deck

Flickerwisp is an all star in my horde deck, i would never get rid of it.

In response to timbermare or thundermare why not both I'm working on a draw and go elemental. Build I will post when done.