Somewhere around a year ago I was looking into playing combo in legacy, but was clearly undecided and I stumbled along Bryant Cook's EDH Dranlu list. I started to test it and was quite surprised at how fast the deck could be. I was able to fight through various forms of hate and decided then and there that I would tune his exhisting list to the max and create a beast that could compete with the speed of roffelo's archetype's and the consistency of Azami, lady of scrolls archetypes.
Through hours of playtesting IRL and on MWS I slowly tuned the deck, cutting some of the chafe and altering the archtype. My friends and old team-mates "Team Awesome" a legacy team have been playing a version of the deck with Queen of the Fae, but I wasn't happy with that, and some of their card choices seemed a little clunky.
A couple of months ago my attention was caught when Bryant mentioned that there were rules set up to play with the wishes and such, and that he would play with a 3rd color. He also mentioned thraximundar, but I didn't like that idea. I wanted something that could end games or draw out counters quickly. Thraximundar doesn't really do quite the same thing in my opinion. Especially for a combo deck of this degree.
The idea of this deck is that you use your mana acceleration in the early game to cast extremely valuable draw spells which in turn tutor through your deck and allow you to hit 1 of many different combos. Often times this deck moves so fast that you will stumble upon combos on accident.
Here are your main win conditions:
Tendrils of Agony (Burning Wish)
Brainfreeze (Cunning Wish)
Charbelcher (Mana severance)
Empty the Warrens
There are also several other ways to win:
Crosis general beats... Good times.
Tidespout tyrant+ lots of spells. This can either create you infinate mana or bounce MANY of your opponents permanants locking them out of the game for a few turns, or both.
A couple of other things to note:
-This is one of the few decks that has a way to combo off on turn 1 (Empty the warrens + retarded artifact speed.) I've done it twice in the last month IRL.
-Because your card quality is generally alot better then your opponents because you don't have to waste tons of space on creature removal etc. you need to be aware that making your land drops is more important than taking the best quality opener. This deck is INCREDIBLY mana hungry all the time. If you arn't mana hungry then you've already won 99 % of the time.
I don't mind this style of deck, but you shouldn't be using wishes like that. Bryant Cook was wrong. There isn't actually an official stance on wishes--it used to be that you could only wish for cards that had been removed from the game, but apparently that was accidentally removed from the rules with one of the revisions. Anyway, it's not really clear how wishes are to be used now.
If you're playing with the optional sideboard rule, it makes sense to use the sideboard for wishes. However, the optional sideboard rule is absolutely terrible, and no one I've met uses it. Unless everyone you're playing with also has a 10-card sideboard, I would say it's not legal to use the wishes at all.
That's the best approach for the format as a whole...if everyone took your approach, Burning/Living/Cunning/Glittering Wishes would be autoincludes in every deck that could play them.
I've played a lot of competitive EDH, including several tournaments, and in all that time no one has ever tried to play a Wish against me. If they did, I would not allow it, and I think I would be justified. The rules do not explicitly support such a use, and I think common sense indicates that they're not meant to be used in this way, especially if your group isn't using sideboards. "Wishboards" are in no way supported by the rules, nor have they ever been.
So yeah, cut the Wishes and retool the deck. It will become less consistent, of course, but that's how it is.
Other than the wishes, your deck looks fine. I do question the use of red though...other than the wish, it looks like you only have 3 red cards, Seething Song, Wheel of Fortune, and Empty the Warrens. It's probably not worth adding a color just for these cards.
Add Windfall. Windfall draw 7. Since you're using Grim Monlith why not use Power Artifact as it will give you infinite colorless mana. Palinchron gives infinite blue mana with high tide and mana flare.
I had a long list of things to say to respond to you Khymera. But the bottom line is your entitled to your opinion.
"Sideboards allow players to respond to the "best" strategies in a timely fashion . They should be strongly considered as a necessary defense against brokenness and degeneracy in an EDH environment where no gentlemans agreement on style of play exists." -Dragonhighlander.net
That seems like a sufficient enough argument for wishes.
And the optional ruling is official as it's on the main website under the optional category. Here Option a.
I think it's retarded to allow cards like sol ring, top and the like and not include wishes.
Yagami
Out of all of the cards presented it seems like Mana flare is the ONLY card I would consider. The others seem terrible, and you don't need to risk your win conditions with ignite memories. I would think grapeshot would have been in there and that actually was a consideration, but was dropped eventually out of the board.
Because it's hardly ever draw 7, and the clause that it could be more then 7 is quite rare. I'd rather shoot for consistency in an off color with Wheel of fortune which is what took windfall's spot.
Since you're using Grim Monlith why not use Power Artifact as it will give you infinite colorless mana.
Tested. I think I got the combo off like once and then I quit playing it. I would play oona if I wanted it, and honestly it's not that great. It's weak to disruption and honestly I like card quality above random combo's. I would play transmute artifact before I played this, and I can't fit that in either.
Palinchron gives infinite blue mana with high tide and mana flare.
Another 2 card combo which is quite bad with any sort of disruption, it's also a killer at 7cc when you hit it on an adnauseam. The cc of the deck is high enough. This was cut along time ago for better cards.
Then this thread should be in the multiplayer section.
1vs1 games don't use the rules on dragonhighlander.net. Instead it uses the french banlist which is geared towards 1vs1 play. Also sol ring, top, and mana crypt are banned in 1vs1 games. The rules on dragonhighlander.net are geared towards multiplayer.
The problem with Wishes is that instead of making the format more "fair" in an attempt to give inferior decks an opportunity to board in hosers against tier 1 decks, it actually just makes things WORSE.
Blue, black, and green are the best colors in 1v1 EDH, and it's not a coincidence. They are the three best colors at card advantage and tutoring. Tutoring is especially a big deal in a format where decks are much less consistent than their 60-card Constructed counterparts.
Sure, I can sideboard in Boil to fight back against your typical blue-based deck. However, red absolutely blows at card drawing, let alone tutoring. Conversely, blue is excellent at being able to find its color hosers that it would sideboard in.
A Brion Stoutarm deck is just going to get even more blown out by an Oona player in game 2 when Oona tutors for Chill, Douse, and/or Gloom, and Brion Stoutarm is unable to draw or tutor to save his life.
Then this thread should be in the multiplayer section.
1vs1 games don't use the rules on dragonhighlander.net. Instead it uses the french banlist which is geared towards 1vs1 play. Also sol ring, top, and mana crypt are banned in 1vs1 games. The rules on dragonhighlander.net are geared towards multiplayer.
No, you people here use the french banlist.
Like, literally no one plays by the rules you all use. They just go off the default banlist.
Blue, black, and green are the best colors in 1v1 EDH, and it's not a coincidence. They are the three best colors at card advantage and tutoring. Tutoring is especially a big deal in a format where decks are much less consistent than their 60-card Constructed counterparts.
I disagree. I think its just as big a deal in a 60 card format as it is in a 99 card format, maybe even more-so.
Sure, I can sideboard in Boil to fight back against your typical blue-based deck. However, red absolutely blows at card drawing, let alone tutoring. Conversely, blue is excellent at being able to find its color hosers that it would sideboard in.
If your argument is that ubg are soo much more superior to wr for tutoring and draw then I think your smoking crack. While red is substancially worse then the other four that doesn't mean that we should all drop the wishes because red only has a few. For goodness sakes your giving the very color your hozing a freaking tutor... and to boot, its not like the other 4 colors are gaining that much, white's wish is terrible, and blacks isn't by any means anything spectacular.
Now if we are going to talk about siding in cards against specific strategies I would think boil would be a bad example of said strategy unless your entire deck is mono red and wreaking with LD. And if thats the case good luck making that truly competitive. scoff. . .
We are talking about giving all the colors pre-sideboardable answers to problematic match-ups, wheres the dilemma here?
A Brion Stoutarm deck is just going to get even more blown out by an Oona player in game 2 when Oona tutors for Chill, Douse, and/or Gloom, and Brion Stoutarm is unable to draw or tutor to save his life.
Not every general is viable, and I think trying to make bryant stoutarm a concievable strategy is a poor choice. Now if were going to talk color combination theres MANY different redundant answers one could run to combat all of the following strategies you've brought up as a "hozer."
I do believe that well over 70% of the archtypes you should plan to face in EDH will run blue because it's obviously the best color in EDH let alone magic the gathering. In these regards you should plan accordingly and I think chill would be a poor card to be sideboarding for any blue based deck; as there are simply better uses of sideboard choices.
Regarding sideboards, no one uses them, to that extent Khymera is right. Personally, I think they should, but it is clunky, and while Brion Stoutarm may not be competitive, decks like Isamaru and Jaya are teir 2ish, and get very little out of a sideboard while something like Oona or Crosis does. That is an entirely different thread, though.
Regarding the deck, very cool. You should reconsider Windfall though, that card is really good. Your land count looks criminally low too, I play a similar deck (Sea of White, just down the page if you want to check it out for more ideas), and would never go below 32 lands. Also, Ancient Tomb is really good.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
"Sideboards allow players to respond to the "best" strategies in a timely fashion . They should be strongly considered as a necessary defense against brokenness and degeneracy in an EDH environment where no gentlemans agreement on style of play exists." -Dragonhighlander.net
That seems like a sufficient enough argument for wishes.
And the optional ruling is official as it's on the main website under the optional category. Here Option a.
1) That's the intent of the sideboard rule. However, the sideboard rule is crap, because the use of sideboards does not defend against brokenness or degeneracy. Instead, it makes the problem worse. There's a reason why that rule is optional.
2) Even sideboards were a good idea, the intent of that rule has nothing to do with wishes. Enabling wishboards was an unintended consequence of that rule, NOT the reason for it.
3) An optional rule should only be used if everyone is using it. If you're using a sideboard and any of your opponent's aren't, then you've got an unfair advantage over them. Unless everyone in your group has a sideboard and is using the optional rule (sideboarding pre-game), then you have no excuse to be using a sideboard when other players aren't.
The rules aside, wishes are just bad for the health of EDH, partly for the reasons Surging Chaos pointed out. They were never intended to make competitive decks more competitive, as in this case, and using them like this, if you can justify it at all, is just exploiting a loophole in the rules.
No, you people here use the french banlist.
Like, literally no one plays by the rules you all use. They just go off the default banlist.
If you go to France, everyone there uses that list. The rest of us are just behind the times. The French list is much better balanced for 1v1 play: it's the height of idiocy to think that a list explicitly "balanced" around casual multiplayer games would be of any use at all in competitive 1v1. The French list may not be perfect, but I don't think there's any rational argument that the multiplayer list is better for 1v1. Even the rules committee who maintains the multiplayer list says that the French list is much better for 1v1.
It's only a matter of time until most 1v1 players switch to the French banlist.
I think its just as big a deal in a 60 card format as it is in a 99 card format, maybe even more-so.
This is just silly. How are tutors possibly better in a 60-card format than in a 100-card highlander format, especially in a combo deck? There's no way at all.
If you go to France, everyone there uses that list. The rest of us are just behind the times. The French list is much better balanced for 1v1 play: it's the height of idiocy to think that a list explicitly "balanced" around casual multiplayer games would be of any use at all in competitive 1v1. The French list may not be perfect, but I don't think there's any rational argument that the multiplayer list is better for 1v1. Even the rules committee who maintains the multiplayer list says that the French list is much better for 1v1.
I didn't say I think the DH.net list was "more balanced" for 1v1 play at all. But I don't think the French list isn't any closer to that persuit by banning cards like crucible, while not banning LFTL, and then un banning Fastbond. And while I understand that Crucible has been banned at DH.net I also understand why it came back.... As for the other cards, many of them I don't understand like Top's banning, which I don't agree with and is a big part of the reason I won't play with the French list.
I do agree with mana crypt and sol ring for obvious reasons. but thats enough.
I'm not talking about wishes, sideboards, or banned lists any longer. The point of this thread was to discuss card quality and promote the archtype.
With that said Windfall keeps being brought up. My testing with the card while good sometimes was terrible more then half the time I drew it. I rarely ever casted it as I almost always had a better draw spell to cast. So what to replace?
also the other 5 drop ad nauseaum needs a place as well. I need to find the card irl as well. Any thoughts?
If you go to France, everyone there uses that list. The rest of us are just behind the times. The French list is much better balanced for 1v1 play: it's the height of idiocy to think that a list explicitly "balanced" around casual multiplayer games would be of any use at all in competitive 1v1. The French list may not be perfect, but I don't think there's any rational argument that the multiplayer list is better for 1v1. Even the rules committee who maintains the multiplayer list says that the French list is much better for 1v1.
It's only a matter of time until most 1v1 players switch to the French banlist.
Come talk to me when your hypothetical future is now, champ.
@ op. Have you considered sins of the past? It pretty much cuts your required storm count in half.
Come talk to me when your hypothetical future is now, champ.
@ op. Have you considered sins of the past? It pretty much cuts your required storm count in half.
I have considered it from time-time but the problem is the investment, not the card quality. While an excellent choice all around the fact that the card is 4cc as well as double black and doesn't win you the game effects its playability in this deck. I remember playing The Extended Storm and using the card and loving it, thanks for the reminder of the good old days.
Re: Sins of the Past: It's actually 6cc w/ double black. It's amazing when you flip it off of Desire and terrible almost every other time, at least in my experience.
For Windfall, I'd try and cut Chain of Vapor, maybe. My experience with that card in EDH has never been good. If you want to keep the bounce slot, I'd just use Into the Roil, as it seems unlike that you'll use the chain the build storm (not that it can't happen, but that seems a very narrow use). Also, Seething Song looks out of place. Its a huge tempo sink if it gets countered too. I cut it a long time ago and haven't regretted it.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
I just RTFC'd the necralgia card. On second thought, its not NEARLY as strong as I thought and I dont know that 5 mana draw 7 cards at virtually sorcery speel while tapping completely out to your opponent is what I want to do..
....did i mention lose 7 life before your spell resolves?
Still looking for that 30th land slot, considerations are warrens and trinket mage, but I think those slots are both solid.
Also I've added the discard spell out of Rise to test in the oblivian stone slot. It would make the discard spells a round 3 intuitionable number. Which is nice.
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Pullus per Mucro
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Through hours of playtesting IRL and on MWS I slowly tuned the deck, cutting some of the chafe and altering the archtype. My friends and old team-mates "Team Awesome" a legacy team have been playing a version of the deck with Queen of the Fae, but I wasn't happy with that, and some of their card choices seemed a little clunky.
A couple of months ago my attention was caught when Bryant mentioned that there were rules set up to play with the wishes and such, and that he would play with a 3rd color. He also mentioned thraximundar, but I didn't like that idea. I wanted something that could end games or draw out counters quickly. Thraximundar doesn't really do quite the same thing in my opinion. Especially for a combo deck of this degree.
So without further a due here is crosis combo:
1 Crosis, the Purger
Lands
7 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Flood Plain
1 Bad River
1 Rocky Tar Pit
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Halimar Depths
1 Tolaria West
Creatures
1 Dark Confidant
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Magus of the Future
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Trinket Mage
Spells
1 Duress
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Misdirection
1 Mana Drain
1 Snap
1 Repeal
1 Rushing River
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Dark Ritual
1 Mana Severance
1 Turnabout
1 High Tide
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Frantic Search
1 Gush
1 Intuition
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Spiral
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Grim Monolith
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Dimir Signet
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Cloud Key
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Memory Jar
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Seething Song
1 Remand
1 Recall
1 Expedition Map
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Burning Wish
1 Cunning Wish
1 Mana Crypt
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Future Sight
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Timetwister
1 Impulse
1 Thoughtseize
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Meditate
1 Compulsive Research
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Wipe Away
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Deathmark
1 Counterspell
1 Echoing Truth
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Wash Out
1 Brain Freeze
1 Stroke of Genius
The idea of this deck is that you use your mana acceleration in the early game to cast extremely valuable draw spells which in turn tutor through your deck and allow you to hit 1 of many different combos. Often times this deck moves so fast that you will stumble upon combos on accident.
Here are your main win conditions:
Tendrils of Agony (Burning Wish)
Brainfreeze (Cunning Wish)
Charbelcher (Mana severance)
Empty the Warrens
There are also several other ways to win:
Crosis general beats... Good times.
Tidespout tyrant+ lots of spells. This can either create you infinate mana or bounce MANY of your opponents permanants locking them out of the game for a few turns, or both.
A couple of other things to note:
-This is one of the few decks that has a way to combo off on turn 1 (Empty the warrens + retarded artifact speed.) I've done it twice in the last month IRL.
-Because your card quality is generally alot better then your opponents because you don't have to waste tons of space on creature removal etc. you need to be aware that making your land drops is more important than taking the best quality opener. This deck is INCREDIBLY mana hungry all the time. If you arn't mana hungry then you've already won 99 % of the time.
Pullus per Mucro
If you're playing with the optional sideboard rule, it makes sense to use the sideboard for wishes. However, the optional sideboard rule is absolutely terrible, and no one I've met uses it. Unless everyone you're playing with also has a 10-card sideboard, I would say it's not legal to use the wishes at all.
That's the best approach for the format as a whole...if everyone took your approach, Burning/Living/Cunning/Glittering Wishes would be autoincludes in every deck that could play them.
I've played a lot of competitive EDH, including several tournaments, and in all that time no one has ever tried to play a Wish against me. If they did, I would not allow it, and I think I would be justified. The rules do not explicitly support such a use, and I think common sense indicates that they're not meant to be used in this way, especially if your group isn't using sideboards. "Wishboards" are in no way supported by the rules, nor have they ever been.
So yeah, cut the Wishes and retool the deck. It will become less consistent, of course, but that's how it is.
Other than the wishes, your deck looks fine. I do question the use of red though...other than the wish, it looks like you only have 3 red cards, Seething Song, Wheel of Fortune, and Empty the Warrens. It's probably not worth adding a color just for these cards.
Add Windfall. Windfall draw 7. Since you're using Grim Monlith why not use Power Artifact as it will give you infinite colorless mana. Palinchron gives infinite blue mana with high tide and mana flare.
Basal Thrull, Blood Pet, Overeager Apprentice and Priest of Gix are other free creatures. I like Necrologia. It should draw 20+ cards at the low cost of 3BB and 20+ life.
Run Lion's Eye Diamond. LED is perfectly legal in 1VS1. It combo's with [card]Infernal Tutorcard] and makes Will better.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
"Sideboards allow players to respond to the "best" strategies in a timely fashion . They should be strongly considered as a necessary defense against brokenness and degeneracy in an EDH environment where no gentlemans agreement on style of play exists." -Dragonhighlander.net
That seems like a sufficient enough argument for wishes.
And the optional ruling is official as it's on the main website under the optional category. Here Option a.
I think it's retarded to allow cards like sol ring, top and the like and not include wishes.
Yagami
Out of all of the cards presented it seems like Mana flare is the ONLY card I would consider. The others seem terrible, and you don't need to risk your win conditions with ignite memories. I would think grapeshot would have been in there and that actually was a consideration, but was dropped eventually out of the board.
Because it's hardly ever draw 7, and the clause that it could be more then 7 is quite rare. I'd rather shoot for consistency in an off color with Wheel of fortune which is what took windfall's spot.
Since you're using Grim Monlith why not use Power Artifact as it will give you infinite colorless mana.
Tested. I think I got the combo off like once and then I quit playing it. I would play oona if I wanted it, and honestly it's not that great. It's weak to disruption and honestly I like card quality above random combo's. I would play transmute artifact before I played this, and I can't fit that in either.
Another 2 card combo which is quite bad with any sort of disruption, it's also a killer at 7cc when you hit it on an adnauseam. The cc of the deck is high enough. This was cut along time ago for better cards.
Necrologia I haven't seen before. I'll test that for sure. It seems fantastic.
I run by the official rules on dragonhighlander.net. Under those rules it's banned or I would probably consider it.
Pullus per Mucro
1vs1 games don't use the rules on dragonhighlander.net. Instead it uses the french banlist which is geared towards 1vs1 play. Also sol ring, top, and mana crypt are banned in 1vs1 games. The rules on dragonhighlander.net are geared towards multiplayer.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
Blue, black, and green are the best colors in 1v1 EDH, and it's not a coincidence. They are the three best colors at card advantage and tutoring. Tutoring is especially a big deal in a format where decks are much less consistent than their 60-card Constructed counterparts.
Sure, I can sideboard in Boil to fight back against your typical blue-based deck. However, red absolutely blows at card drawing, let alone tutoring. Conversely, blue is excellent at being able to find its color hosers that it would sideboard in.
A Brion Stoutarm deck is just going to get even more blown out by an Oona player in game 2 when Oona tutors for Chill, Douse, and/or Gloom, and Brion Stoutarm is unable to draw or tutor to save his life.
No, you people here use the french banlist.
Like, literally no one plays by the rules you all use. They just go off the default banlist.
"Wins thread!"
I'll respond in a bit, but I thought that was so relevant to this whole conversation.
Pullus per Mucro
If your argument is that ubg are soo much more superior to wr for tutoring and draw then I think your smoking crack. While red is substancially worse then the other four that doesn't mean that we should all drop the wishes because red only has a few. For goodness sakes your giving the very color your hozing a freaking tutor... and to boot, its not like the other 4 colors are gaining that much, white's wish is terrible, and blacks isn't by any means anything spectacular.
Now if we are going to talk about siding in cards against specific strategies I would think boil would be a bad example of said strategy unless your entire deck is mono red and wreaking with LD. And if thats the case good luck making that truly competitive. scoff. . .
We are talking about giving all the colors pre-sideboardable answers to problematic match-ups, wheres the dilemma here?
Not every general is viable, and I think trying to make bryant stoutarm a concievable strategy is a poor choice. Now if were going to talk color combination theres MANY different redundant answers one could run to combat all of the following strategies you've brought up as a "hozer."
I do believe that well over 70% of the archtypes you should plan to face in EDH will run blue because it's obviously the best color in EDH let alone magic the gathering. In these regards you should plan accordingly and I think chill would be a poor card to be sideboarding for any blue based deck; as there are simply better uses of sideboard choices.
Pullus per Mucro
Regarding the deck, very cool. You should reconsider Windfall though, that card is really good. Your land count looks criminally low too, I play a similar deck (Sea of White, just down the page if you want to check it out for more ideas), and would never go below 32 lands. Also, Ancient Tomb is really good.
2) Even sideboards were a good idea, the intent of that rule has nothing to do with wishes. Enabling wishboards was an unintended consequence of that rule, NOT the reason for it.
3) An optional rule should only be used if everyone is using it. If you're using a sideboard and any of your opponent's aren't, then you've got an unfair advantage over them. Unless everyone in your group has a sideboard and is using the optional rule (sideboarding pre-game), then you have no excuse to be using a sideboard when other players aren't.
The rules aside, wishes are just bad for the health of EDH, partly for the reasons Surging Chaos pointed out. They were never intended to make competitive decks more competitive, as in this case, and using them like this, if you can justify it at all, is just exploiting a loophole in the rules.
If you go to France, everyone there uses that list. The rest of us are just behind the times. The French list is much better balanced for 1v1 play: it's the height of idiocy to think that a list explicitly "balanced" around casual multiplayer games would be of any use at all in competitive 1v1. The French list may not be perfect, but I don't think there's any rational argument that the multiplayer list is better for 1v1. Even the rules committee who maintains the multiplayer list says that the French list is much better for 1v1.
It's only a matter of time until most 1v1 players switch to the French banlist.
This is just silly. How are tutors possibly better in a 60-card format than in a 100-card highlander format, especially in a combo deck? There's no way at all.
I didn't say I think the DH.net list was "more balanced" for 1v1 play at all. But I don't think the French list isn't any closer to that persuit by banning cards like crucible, while not banning LFTL, and then un banning Fastbond. And while I understand that Crucible has been banned at DH.net I also understand why it came back.... As for the other cards, many of them I don't understand like Top's banning, which I don't agree with and is a big part of the reason I won't play with the French list.
I do agree with mana crypt and sol ring for obvious reasons. but thats enough.
I'm not talking about wishes, sideboards, or banned lists any longer. The point of this thread was to discuss card quality and promote the archtype.
With that said Windfall keeps being brought up. My testing with the card while good sometimes was terrible more then half the time I drew it. I rarely ever casted it as I almost always had a better draw spell to cast. So what to replace?
also the other 5 drop ad nauseaum needs a place as well. I need to find the card irl as well. Any thoughts?
Pullus per Mucro
Come talk to me when your hypothetical future is now, champ.
@ op. Have you considered sins of the past? It pretty much cuts your required storm count in half.
I have considered it from time-time but the problem is the investment, not the card quality. While an excellent choice all around the fact that the card is 4cc as well as double black and doesn't win you the game effects its playability in this deck. I remember playing The Extended Storm and using the card and loving it, thanks for the reminder of the good old days.
Pullus per Mucro
For Windfall, I'd try and cut Chain of Vapor, maybe. My experience with that card in EDH has never been good. If you want to keep the bounce slot, I'd just use Into the Roil, as it seems unlike that you'll use the chain the build storm (not that it can't happen, but that seems a very narrow use). Also, Seething Song looks out of place. Its a huge tempo sink if it gets countered too. I cut it a long time ago and haven't regretted it.
....did i mention lose 7 life before your spell resolves?
Still looking for that 30th land slot, considerations are warrens and trinket mage, but I think those slots are both solid.
Also I've added the discard spell out of Rise to test in the oblivian stone slot. It would make the discard spells a round 3 intuitionable number. Which is nice.
Pullus per Mucro